SpaceX Falcon 9

[hecata]

А керосинка с дожиганием окислительного генераторного газа мы поглядим как пойдёт. У академика это отняло более 10 лет. А он не в пример как опытнее был в этих вопросах.

Причем дважды по 10 лет - сначала на создании схемы, а потом на создании РД-170. Не хватит ресурсов у Маска повторить 170-ый или хотя бы НК-33.

[Salo]

http://www.hobbyspace.com/nucleus/index.php?itemid=31359

- Late this year they will announce details of a project to build a super-high efficiency staged-combustion engine

Элон собирается концептуально копировать РД-170. Слава Академику Глушко!

Впрочем в  этой фразе речь могла идти о водородном Рапторе, который сразу планировался замкнутой схемы.

[SpaceR]

- Late this year they will announce details of a project to build a super-high efficiency staged-combustion engine

Элон собирается концептуально копировать РД-170. Слава Академику Глушко!

Хм, а почему, собственно, Глушко и РД-170, а не Кузнецову и НК-15(НК-33). Хотя можно ещё и НК-9 вспомнить.

Или новый "super-high efficiency staged-combustion engine" заявлен четырехкамерным?

[Петр Зайцев]

Почему, почему... Поторопился я на радостях. Похоже это просто Раптор. Там нигде не было сказано, что этот двигатель работает на керосине.

[hecata]

- Late this year they will announce details of a project to build a super-high efficiency staged-combustion engine

Элон собирается концептуально копировать РД-170. Слава Академику Глушко!

Хм, а почему, собственно, Глушко и РД-170, а не Кузнецову и НК-15(НК-33). Хотя можно ещё и НК-9 вспомнить.

Или новый "super-high efficiency staged-combustion engine" заявлен четырехкамерным?

Потому что если считать за efficiency УИ, то самый super-high на сегодняшний день РД-170.

[Salo]

Только среди керосинок.

[hecata]

Разумеется, ну их вроде как и начали обсуждать.

Водородник замкнутой схемы - это тоже круто, но гораздо проще для США.

[Salo]

http://www.spacex.com/updates.php

Photo: Kyle Cothern / SpaceX

This week, we successfully completed a wet dress rehearsal (WDR) for the Falcon 9 Flight 3 launch vehicle at Space Launch Complex 40, Cape Canaveral, Florida. The WDR is a significant test during which we load propellant into the vehicle and perform all operations just as we would on launch day right down to T-1 seconds, at which point we abort and detank the propellant.

Since our last flight, we have made significant upgrades to the launch pad to streamline the countdown. For example, we installed new liquid oxygen (LOX) pumps that reduced our previous loading time from 90 minutes to under 30. Improvements like this are getting us closer to our long term goal of Falcon 9 going from hangar to liftoff in under an hour. This is no easy task for a vehicle with about the same takeoff weight as a fully loaded Boeing 747, but if a 747 can do it reliably day after day, then Falcon 9 can too.[/size]

Upper Left: First stage tank, with domes and barrels for the second stage. Upper Right: All nine Merlin engines have been individually tested in Texas and then returned to California for integration into the thrust assembly. Lower Left: Composite interstage structure that joins the stages. Lower Right: The pressure vessel for the CRS-1 Dragon spacecraft has 10 cubic meters (350 cu ft) of interior volume. Photos: Roger Gilbertson / SpaceX

We are well into production with all parts (shown above) for the following launch, Falcon 9 Flight 4 and its Dragon CRS-1 spacecraft, which should be the first commercial cargo resupply mission under NASA Commercial Resupply Services (CRS) program. Significant additional tooling and automation with be added to the factory, as we build towards the capability of producing a Falcon 9 first stage or Falcon Heavy side booster every week and an upper stage every two weeks. Depending on demand, Dragon production is planned for a rate of one every six to eight weeks.[/size]

[LG]

Интересно в какой пропорции СТ и Ф-9 поделят рынок. Хотя есть вариант СТ как начнет летать попытается выкинуть с рынка Ф-9 сразу путем демпинга.

[Salo]

http://www.spacenews.com/venture_space/110819-fla-spaceports-commercial-operators.html

Fri, 19 August, 2011
At Florida Spaceports, Commercial Operators Prepare To Move In[/size]
By Dan Leone

    WASHINGTON — Privately owned U.S. space companies are preparing to move into high-value launch support facilities in Florida, partially filling a vacuum left by the end of the space shuttle program and the retiring of the Delta 2 expendable rocket.

    Space Exploration Technologies Corp. (SpaceX) already has confirmed that it will use money from the state of Florida to expand its presence at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. Meanwhile, an announcement is expected in the coming weeks from NASA regarding bids from industry to take over shuttle facilities at the Kennedy Space Center (KSC).

    SpaceX got about $7 million from Florida "to basically take over this old Delta 2 processing hangar and upgrade it so that we can process Falcon 9s there," Bobby Block, a spokesman for Hawthorne, Calif.-based SpaceX, said Aug. 12. The facility, formerly known as Hanger AO, has been rechristened "Hanger X" by SpaceX.

    Block said SpaceX also is getting state money to tune up a payload processing and integration facility at the Cape's Space Launch Complex 40, the long-serving Titan 3 and Titan 4 launch pad SpaceX last used in December to launch its first demonstration mission of cargo-carrying Dragon capsule.

    "The original funding was approved for the AO facility in June," Block said. "The money for the payload processing and integration facility, which would be at the pad, came from Florida Department of Transportation Funds and that was distributed through Space Florida and that was approved in August."

    Space Florida is the state's economic development agency focused on the aerospace business.

    Block said that SpaceX's goal is to be launching one rocket a month from the Cape by 2015.

    Besides its pad at the Cape, SpaceX is also refurbishing an old Titan 4 launch pad at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The company is seeking a third location, possibly in Texas, or possibly a second pad in either Florida or California.

    Space Florida is the entity that would disburse the state money for SpaceX's Cape expansion. Space Florida spokeswoman Tina Lange declined to comment on SpaceX's projects at Cape Canaveral.

    "We have not closed the deal completely," Lange said Aug. 12. "Until that happens, we will not make any formal announcements."

    On Nov. 30, SpaceX aims to launch a cargo demonstration mission from the Cape to the international space station. That mission would combine the remaining two technical demonstrations required of SpaceX by NASA under the Commercial Orbital Transportation Services program. Both the agency and the company have agreed to a combined mission, although formal approval is still pending.

    Whereas SpaceX's expansion at the Cape was driven by state aid, a federal program will drive changes in tenancy at much of the rest of Florida's space support infrastructure.

    Back in January, NASA put out a request for proposals to put launch support infrastructure at Kennedy to work after the end of the shuttle program.

    "We have these facilities, we have a work force here, they all have the infrastructure to support aerospace work ... who would be interested in it?" Allard Beutel, a Kennedy Space Center spokesman, said. "Several dozen viable responses" poured in to NASA, and the agency now expects to announce the proposals it has selected "in the next several weeks," Beutel said Aug. 18.

    Once NASA selects its favored proposals, the agency will get to work on the legal specifics, such as the contract vehicles that will be used to allow private companies to move into Kennedy Space Center buildings, Beutel said. He would not comment on the entities that had expressed interest in occupying the old shuttle buildings.

    "There are a wide variety of cats and dogs in that list" of interested parties, Dale Ketcham, director of the Spaceport Research & Technology Institute at KSC said. His characterization of the disparate uses to which responders intend to put KSC infrastructure was informed by conversations with NASA, he said.

    Some of the entities that want to move into Kennedy "are involved in traditional human spaceflight or launch operations [which is] more traditional KSC work," Ketcham said. "But a fair number of those credible respondents were new types of work for KSC, more in the technology development and less in the pure launch operations."

    News reports from Florida the week of Aug. 8 said Boeing Space Exploration of Houston was close to a deal to move into Orbiter Processing Facility 3, which was formerly used for postflight shuttle services.

    Neither Space Florida, nor Boeing nor NASA would confirm those reports.

    "We have had discussions with Space Florida and others about where we might locate our commercial crew program office and where we plan to manufacture, test and operate the Crew Space Transportation (CST)-100 [space capsule]," Boeing spokesman Ed Memi wrote in an Aug. 11 email to Space News. However, "we are not ready to disclose what facilities we might use at this point."

    Boeing is designing its CST-100 capsule under NASA's commercial crew program, which is aimed at getting private companies to fly astronauts to the international space station by 2017.

    Moving private companies into old launch support infrastructure has been touted as a way to stem the hemorrhaging of aerospace jobs from the Florida space coast.

    But Ketcham said that even if a robust roster of commercial space companies tenants move into the Cape and KSC, and even if the next U.S.-owned rocket — the planned Space Launch System — is built on time and flies out of KSC as planned, the state will still book a net loss on space industry jobs.

    "It's one thing to be wedded entirely to a single large government program" such as the shuttle program, Ketcham said. "And that's great when that program's bumping along fat and happy. Unfortunately, we're going through a second time what we should have learned after Apollo: When that program comes to a halt and that's all you do, you pretty much deserve what you get." [/size]

[Salo]

http://www.parabolicarc.com/2011/08/19/spacex-looking-in-multiple-states-for-third-launch-site/

SpaceX Looking in Multiple States for Third Launch Site[/size]
Posted by Doug Messier
on August 19, 2011, at 4:14 pm
in Elon Musk, Falcon 9 and SpaceX

Alan Boyle at Cosmic Log talked to Elon Musk about SpaceX's search for a third U.S. launch site:

    "We have our main launch facility, which is Cape Canaveral in Florida. Then we are in the process of developing our second launch facility, which is Vandenberg in California. And we do intend to develop a third launch facility. Texas is one of the possible states. But we're also looking at a number of other locations: Puerto Rico, potentially another location in Florida, potentially Hawaii. And there are a few other locations that could work. So we're trying to make the right decision for the long term.

    "The third launch site would open early, in perhaps three or four years. So we want to make sure we make the right decision. But we do think we need three launch sites in order to handle all of the launch demand that we have been able to get. ...

    "It would be a purely commercial launch site, whereas Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg are actually Air Force bases — in the case of Cape Canaveral, it's sort of a joint NASA-Air Force activity. So it makes sense to have NASA and Defense Department launches occur from Cape Canaveral and Vandenberg, but then probably shift most of our commercial launches to a purely commercial launch site that's really aimed at being the best customer for a commercial launch provider. Just as there are Air Force bases and commercial airports ... there's some logic to separation."[/size]

[Roman-ASC]

1. какая программа пуска у Фалкона девятого запланирована на 30 ноября?
2. Маск был на МАКС 2011?  :?:

[Salo]

А должен был?

[Shumil]

Разумные, кто в курсе, старшие модели Фальконов будут работать с переливом (из боковушек в центральный блок), или каждая на своем запасе топлива?

(Для моделирования с переливом или без - это две большие разницы)

--
Shumil

[Дмитрий Виницкий]

Перелив, это вряд ли. Маск использует принцип проще простого. Не смотря на многостороннюю трепотню о чем угодно.

[Дмитрий В.]

Разумные, кто в курсе, старшие модели Фальконов будут работать с переливом (из боковушек в центральный блок), или каждая на своем запасе топлива?

(Для моделирования с переливом или без - это две большие разницы)

--
Shumil

На FH применение системы перелива планируется для самых высокоэнергетических миссий.

[Петр Зайцев]

Разумные, кто в курсе, старшие модели Фальконов будут работать с переливом (из боковушек в центральный блок), или каждая на своем запасе топлива?

(Для моделирования с переливом или без - это две большие разницы)

На FH применение системы перелива планируется для самых высокоэнергетических миссий.

Добавлю, что Элон водил руками по поводу того откуда и куда идут трубопроводы, где клапаны отсечки, и какие двигатели питать откуда. Но явно проэкт в деталях не проработан, никаких тестов разделения не проводилось. Посему пока будут пускать без перелива, а там посмотрим. Merlin 1D позволяет дросселировать до 70%, так наверное с этого и начнут.

[Кенгуру]

Если используется перелив из боковых в центральный блок, то после отделения боковых блоков сильно падает тяговооружённость, в результате растут гравитационные потери сжирающие смысл перелива.

Поэтому чтобы был смысл нужен более мощный двигатель на центральном блоке. Есть он у него там?

[Петр Зайцев]

в результате растут гравитационные потери сжирающие смысл перелива.

А у вас это просчитано? А то на словах я тоже могу сказать, что младенцу ясно, что почти все гравпотери проходятся на первые 100 секунд, а дальше gravity turn закончен и разгон с околонулевым углом к траектории. Все такие заявления имеют смысл только когда подтверждены рассчетами.

Кстати не забывайте, что у Маска из боковушек только кормятся 6 двигателей центра, а 3 питаются из центра всю дорогу. Посему масса компонент топлива в центре к моменту разделения меньше стартовой на 33% даже без дросселирования и с тяговооруженностью там все в порядке, наверняка больше единицы даже. А уж к моменту пуска второй ступени там тяговооруженность такая, что приходится часть двигателей выключать заранее. Какие уж там гравпотери :-)

[Старый]

Если используется перелив из боковых в центральный блок, то после отделения боковых блоков сильно падает тяговооружённость

А что мешает сделать центральный блок оптимальным по массе с оптимальной тяговооружённостью?