SpaceX MCT super heavy

[Mark]

Елон Муск розгавор у Royal Aeronautical Society в ноябре 2012 года. Два аспекты:

- Стоимость билета на Марс около 500 000 $ (если будет полно возвращены носитель ).
- MCT носитель получи Staged Combustion двигатель, который будет называться Raptor

- MCT = .Mars Colonial Transporter
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/342566837852200960


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB3R5Xk2gTY&list=UUd00LnxD97eIAzwbbPizV9g&index=2&feature=plcp

[Lanista]

Муск is Moosk
Маск - Musk
=)

[SFN]

Да ладно. По-немецки Musk читается как Муск    Проверочное слово мускус или скунс (как кому удобнее)

[G.K.]

SFN пишет:
Проверочное слово ... скунс

[Lanista]

Марк немец? не знал, тогда прощаем =)

[Mark]

SFN пишет:
Да ладно. По-немецки Musk читается как Муск    Проверочное слово мускус или скунс (как кому удобнее)  

В Германи Musk читаем как Маsk.

[SFN]

Mark пишет:
В Германи Musk читаем как Маsk.

Ich werde nach Deutschland telefonieren einen Freund und überprüfen  

Маск, конечно молодец, и даже может быть сделает мощный метановый двигатель первым в мире, но это будет еще нескоро.

[Mark]

SFN пишет:

Mark пишет:
В Германи Musk читаем как Маsk.

Ich werde nach Deutschland telefonieren einen Freund und überprüfen    

Маск, конечно молодец, и даже может быть сделает мощный метановый двигатель первым в мире, но это будет еще нескоро.

Да, Маск то молодец.

Метановы двигатель на 500-1000 тонн ест обезателно нужны. Маск тоже сделал хорышыи електромобил. Tesla Model S 2013 оснащается высокопроизводительным электромотором, с отдачей в 416 л.с. Разгоняясь от 0 до 100 км/ч, спортивный электромобиль укладывается в 4,3 секунды.  В Германи будут на следующы год за около 100 000 Еуро. В принцыпие как BMW M5 2013.

[SFN]

Так что слышно нового про MCT, кроме того что Маск - молодец?

[Петр Зайцев]

Ему не до того сейчас. Сегодня только прошел прожиг в Вандерберге, нужно на 1 пуск в месяц выходить, чтобы разгрести манифест. Причем лично у него еще и Тесла на шее.

[kp_]

По мнению спецов, разрабатывавших РД-270, его схема - принципиально не реализуема, учитывая полную неудачу в его испытаниях, видимо они что-то утаили от общественности, какие-то конкретные детали, кои не позволяют доработать РД-270.

[kp_]

НЕ исключено что имеет место несинхронность работы обоих турбогенераторов, и проблемы с этим связанные.

[G.K.]

kp пишет:
несинхронность работы обоих турбогенераторов

Это пипец. Рафинированный.

[октоген]

Lanista пишет:
Марк немец? не знал, тогда прощаем =)

Хе-хе... По оговоркам он немецкий поляк.

[kp_]

G.K. пишет:

kp пишет:
несинхронность работы обоих
турбогенераторов

Это пипец. Рафинированный

У вас есть иное объяснение резко негативного мнения спецов?  Я слышал что с синхронизацией были проблемы, но результат их не известен, поди знай, на что спецы намекали то

[Mark]

октоген пишет:

Lanista пишет:
Марк немец? не знал, тогда прощаем =)

Хе-хе... По оговоркам он немецкий поляк.

Я знаю польский язык очень хорошо, все остальное не правильно  

[Mark]

Интересно что пишут в Форбес про SpaceX MCT :

Answer by Dolly Singh, Former Head of Talent Acq. at SpaceX, on Quora,

Dolly Singh, Former Head of Talent Acq. at SpaceX
I know Elon — well.  His obsession with Mars is no PR scam, but something the folks at SpaceX are giving their blood and sweat to achieve.

You have no idea how much design and planning is already underway.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/01/17/how-feasible-is-elon-musks-idea-to-establish-a-colony-on-mars-in-the-2020s/

[Valerij]

Интересный комментарий на параллельном форуме:
 

SpaceX FX/FXX/BFR Speculation Thread.
MikeAtkinson Reply #24 on: 02/14/2014 08:59 PM
 
One thing we can be pretty sure of is the the FX is designed for one mission, that is sending the MCT to Mars. No doubt it will be able to perform other missions, but Mars is the goal, everything else is a bonus.

So to talk about the FX without the MCT does not make much sense. Over on the MCT speculation thread, we have discussed several possible MCT designs.

The MCT is said (by Elon) to be able to carry 80-100 people to Mars and have the (habitable?) volume of 100 large SUVs. Depending on whether that is the volume that can hold the SUV or the internal volume of the SUV that could be between 700 m^3 and 2200 m^3. A payload capacity of about 50 tonnes is needed for 100 people to Mars. It seems fr om what Elon has said (e.g. in reply to Tinker) that the MCT is refueled at Mars and returns without staging, if the MCT also makes the TMI without staging it needs a delta-v of about 6 m/s second, this means that it needs a propellant capacity of about 400 tonnes (the range is large because we don't know the MCT dry mass or the exact delta-v requirement, this needs tanks smaller (perhaps much smaller) than the MCT crew/cargo volume. Given the volume and payload mass requirements, the MCT dry mass is likely to be in the order of 50 tonnes (again with large range of possible values).

Спойлер

We have debated whether an launch escape system is needed, if it is then it might be a tractor type as this could be left in LEO (to be recovered and reused) and not have the mass penalty of taking it to Mars and back.

So it looks like the MCT will be physically big, perhaps up the 40 m long and a diameter of 10 m - this could fit on a FX of 7-10 m diameter. The delta-v for TMI, for the return trip and for a FX second stage are all about 6 km/s - this leads to the idea that the MCT will act as its own second stage during ascent, then be refueled in LEO. If it is to be refueled then a tanker is needed, there will be about 6 tanker flights per MCT.

The FX is almost certainly going to have a reusable 1st stage, there is no other way to meet Elon's cost goals. Similarly the tanker will be reusable - other than a tanker there is no need for a 2nd stage and no need for a payload fairing for this Mars mission architecture.

Because the center core of a heavy version is problematic to make reusable and because it will strain the ground support infrastructure to (or perhaps past) the limit, it is likely IMO that there will not be a triple core heavy version.

So a single core FX needs to be able to put something like 100 tonnes into orbit. If the MCT acts as its own 2nd stage, this is equivalent to a fully reusable 75 tonne launcher (as 75 tonnes payload + 25 tonnes reusable 2nd stage mass = 100 tonnes). The tanker variant would be fully reusable, so each tanker load would be about 75 tonnes of propellant. A 75 tonnes fully reusable is equivalent to 150 tonnes non-reusable - Gwynne Shotwell as mentioned 150-200 tonnes, so if she meant in non-reusable configuration that fits.

I think that 11-13 Raptor engines will probably be required for a 75 tonnes fully reusable launcher, we don't know the specifications of Raptor well enough to be sure - we especially don't know the sea level thrust, we also don't know what mass fraction SpaceX are targeting for the core.

If the MCT acts as its own 2nd stage then it needs at least 6 km/s of delta-v (perhaps nearer 7 km/s), if it masses 100 tonnes (including payload) then 400+ tonnes of propellant are needed. A single Raptor is a bit underpowered for this. So perhaps the MCT+payload is lighter, or perhaps it is heavier and has 2 Raptors, or perhaps there is a true 2nd stage after all, or perhaps the MCT is launched without its full compliment of payload.

Elon has said that FX will dwarf the Saturn V, he could have meant in terms of payload, GLOW, thrust, volume or height, I think it is most likely he meant height. FX + MCT (+escape system) could would be much taller than Saturn V is using a 7-8 m diameter core. A 10 m core would lead to a system that is shorter (at least if an escape system is needed) - so I think the FX core will be 7.5 m in diameter.

Other ideas for MCT have been that it is launched direct to Mars with a single triple-core FX heavy. This is just about the simplest architecture, but would limit MCT size such that it will be very difficult to carry 100 crew, especially if a transfer of under 6 months is required. If the center core cannot be recovered then this is unlikely to be the cheapest option.

Another idea is a two launch architecture wh ere MCT is launched (partly fueled) by a triple-core Fx heavy, and then a second launch either is for a tanker to fill up the stage or for a TMI stage (which is jettisoned with enough fuel to make a return burn and land back at the launch site. Perhaps this TMI stage could be returned to LEO and refueled from a propellant depot. A variant is that the MCT is split in 2 with the payload/crew in one half (launched with abort system) and the stage part on another launch - they join in LEO and after than behave as one vehicle.

[свернуть]

[apologies if I have missed anyone's favorite architecture out!]
 

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34015.msg1160391#msg1160391

[Mark]

MCT - перый пуск за 10-12 лет !


На вчерашний Space Show (об етом я писал), сказал Gwynne Shotwell, что первая посадка система MCT на Марс будет уже около 2025 года!

[SFN]

Осталось сделать пустяк - найти финансирование для проекта.