FLEX PATH

[ronatu]

А вот и Гарвер проболталась:

Garver said NASA's Orion contract with Denver-based Lockheed Martin Space Systems would be restructured to develop a variant of the space capsule that could be launched unmanned to station within the next couple of years to serve as a crew lifeboat. Garver said the plan would allow the agency to retain some of its multibillion-dollar investment in the program while reducing U.S. reliance on Russian Soyuz spacecraft currently used as an emergency crew escape capability on the space station.

"It allows you to keep the ability to go beyond low Earth orbit with humans," Garver said, adding "the investment we made in Constellation along those lines is something that will benefit our program as well as allows us to rely on the Russians for a shorter period of time."

Garver said NASA has no plans to continue development of Orion for exploration beyond low Earth orbit.

"We will ask them to focus Orion for the government purposes on our unique requirement of crew escape," she said, adding that Lockheed Martin would be welcome to use the Orion capsule to bid on the agency's $6 billion commercial crew program proposed in the president's 2011 budget.

"That would be a company decision on bidding for commercial crew technology," she said.

Garver said Obama also would announce a plan select a heavy-lift vehicle design by 2015, an element previously missing from the human spaceflight plan put forward in Obama's 2011 budget. That omission has drawn fire from lawmakers concerned that a heavy-lift development program is needed to maintain the nation's leadership in manned space exploration.

"We're going to have a date specific to make a decision about the heavy lift vehicle in 2015," she said, adding that the $3.1 billion Obama proposed to study advanced heavy lift propulsion capabilities over the next five years "is going to have us much further along down the path, and when we choose that vehicle we'll be able to have a running start."

http://www.space.com/news/obama-space-plan-revives-orion-sn-100413.html

Все-таки на какие-то уступки они уже пошли.

[ronatu]

....In 2003, following the Columbia accident, President Bush began development of a system to replace the Shuttle, called the Ares I rocket and Orion spacecraft. It is important to note that this too would only have been able to reach low Earth orbit. Many in the media mistakenly assumed it was capable of reaching the Moon. As is not unusual with large government programs, the schedule slipped by several years and costs ballooned by tens of billions.

By the time President Obama cancelled Ares I/Orion earlier this year, the schedule had already slipped five years to 2017 and completing development would have required another $50 billion. Moreover, the cost per flight, inclusive of overhead, was estimated to be at least $1.5 billion compared to the $1 billion of Shuttle, despite carrying only four people to Shuttle's seven and almost no cargo.

The President quite reasonably concluded that spending $50 billion to develop a vehicle that would cost 50% more to operate, but carry 50% less payload was perhaps not the best possible use of funds. To quote a member of the Augustine Commission, which was convened by the President to analyze Ares/Orion,

[frigate]

CNN links:
Obama outlines new NASA strategy for deep space exploration.
With fat days over, NASA must innovate.

[ronatu]

Sen. Nelson - Obama's KSC trip, speech show President listening and backs robust space program

"Based on information released this week by the White House, Nelson said the president is moving in the right direction. But, "as with most presidential proposals, Congress will not just rubber stamp it," he said. "So we'll take what he's saying to our committee, and then we'll change some things."

[ronatu]

Chairman Rockefeller's Statement on President Obama's Space Policy Address

"For me, one thing is clear: science-based innovation drives economic growth and helps America compete in the global economy. Past exploration has greatly contributed to America's economic strength and competitiveness. I am pleased the president's plan retains its focus on innovation, research and technology development - the drivers of our economy."

Rep. Hall Remains Skeptical of Obama Space Flight plan

"I agree with Neil Armstrong, Apollo astronauts and many other supporters of our space program who believe that the President's proposal would be devastating for the future of NASA. Our space program is a national priority and source of pride. More than 30,000 jobs are at stake all across the nation, and we are on the brink of losing a highly skilled workforce."

[ronatu]

Olson Statement on President Obama NASA Speech

"Our nation does not lack the resources, the capabilities, the infrastructure, or the workforce to maintain a robust space program to reach destinations in space. What we lack is a commitment to get there. "Today's announced proposals continue that trend. The Administration has downgraded the Orion capsule, failing to realize its true potential if fully utilized as designed."

Rep. Rohrabacher Supports Obama's New Space Plan, Agrees with Ending Constellation Program

"President Obama reiterated the nation's long-term space goal - America, and American astronauts, exploring the solar system. This remains the right goal," said Rohrabacher. "We as a nation must remain committed to the goal - not just on particular methods to get there."

Rep. Posey's Statement on the President's Space Speech at KSC

"I am very concerned about the impact this plan will have not just on the workforce at KSC, but also the adverse impact on our nation's military industrial base and America's economic competitiveness. Let's remember the benefits of space extend far beyond the direct actions related to launching rockets."

[ronatu]

Kosmas' Statement on President Obama's NASA Address

"However, as I have said all along, without working towards a specific vehicle and without having American access to the International Space Station, we risk losing our supremacy in space. I have introduced legislation that would maintain a robust NASA-led human spaceflight program by allowing for Shuttle extension and by establishing a next-generation NASA-led vehicle, and I will continue fighting to make sure these ideas are fully explored."

Utah lawmakers oppose NASA plan, Salt Lake Tribune

"I would say the administration's plan is laughable, but I can't find much humor in it when the consequences to space exploration and American workers during tough economic times are so dire," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.

Colorado officials happy that space capsule is spared, Business Week

Colorado senators and congressmen welcomed President Barack Obama's decision to save a version of the Orion space capsule being developed in Colorado.

"The president's announcement is terrific news for Colorado, for all the workers on Orion," said Democratic Sen. Mark Udall."

Missouri Congressman Mistakenly Refers To 'Soviet Union' In Anti-Obama Space Policy Press Release, Huffngton Post

"In a statement the Missouri Republican said the move would leave the United States "reliant upon the Soviet Union" for future low-earth orbit access."

[ronatu]

NSS Applauds Presidents Commitment to the Mission of NASA and the role of space in providing for the Future

"The President stressed the importance of a transformative agenda for NASA, and the critical role of breakthrough technologies in enabling NASA and our nation to create the future we wish to see come to pass. The Society congratulates the president for refining his vision to include such incremental goals as the design of a Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle by 2015, and a preliminary timetable for human exploration destinations."

[ronatu]

Commercial Spaceflight Federation Hails President's Space Plan As Creating "More Spacecraft, More Astronaut Flights, and More Jobs"

"The President's plan increases NASA's budget by $6 billion over 5 years and includes new investments in exploration to Mars and other destinations, new technologies, and commercial spaceflight. The President stated, "I am 100 percent committed to the mission of NASA and its future," and added, "We will work with a growing array of private companies competing to make getting to space easier and more affordable."

[Ну-и-ну]

Последние 30 лет планы США в области ПК демонстрируют потрясающую гибкость...

[KVV]

Для ценителей американской пилотируемой космонавтики в свете последних событий и обсуждений.
Итак, что они имеют в начале Гибкого Пути:

Космические корабли:
"Lockheed-Martin" – "Orion" (Lite, или Block1, 2) (проект.)
"Boeing"+"Bigelow Aerospace" – капсула BB(проект.)
"Sierra Nevada Corp." – "Dream Chaser"(проект.)
"Space X" – "Dragon"(проект.)
OSC – "Cygnys"(персп.)
"Blue Origin" – "Goddard"(прототип), "New Shepard"(персп.)
"Scaled Composites" – "Space Ship Two"(лки), "Space Ship Three"(?)
"XCOR Aerospace" – "Lunx Mark II"(персп.)
"Transformational Space" – CXV(концепция)
"Armadillo Aerospace" – "Fishbowl"(прототип), "Black Armadillo"(персп.)
"Planet Space" – "Silver Dart"(персп.)
"Masten Space System" – XA-2.0(персп.)
"Rocketplane Global" – "Rocketplane XP"()
Два государственных военных проекта (прОжекта):
-"Sustain"(?)
-"Hot Eagle"(персп.)
ОС:
- МКС
-"Bigelow Aerospace" – "Sundancer"(проект.), "BA-330 "Nautilus"(персп.)

"Excalibur Almaz" я пока считаю UK-шным.
Включено всё – перспективное и без, смешное и не очень.
Что-то пропустил?

Просьба: не заводить в очередной раз бодягу о том, является ли суборбитальный полет космическим.

[Parf]

Правильно ли я понял, что со всем вышеперечисленным американцы собираются примерно в 2025-2030 гг. лететь на астероид? У меня такое ощущение, что для полёта на астероид некоторых компонент не хватает.

[Agent]

Rep. Rohrabacher Supports Obama's New Space Plan, Agrees with Ending Constellation Program

"President Obama reiterated the nation's long-term space goal - America, and American astronauts, exploring the solar system. This remains the right goal," said Rohrabacher. "We as a nation must remain committed to the goal - not just on particular methods to get there."

Пока что единственный(!) конгрессмен, поддержавший Обаму.
Избранный от моего околодка  :evil:

[Scarecrow]

Пока что единственный(!) конгрессмен, поддержавший Обаму.
Избранный от моего околодка  :evil:

Если Рорабахер, политик курировавший космонавтику и до того спичрайтер у Рейгана поддержал, это заставляет переосмыслить ситуацию. Дальше не пишу, а то политика будет. Агент, доверяйте обкому!

[Agent]

Пока что единственный(!) конгрессмен, поддержавший Обаму.
Избранный от моего околодка  :evil:

Если Рорабахер, политик курировавший космонавтику и до того спичрайтер у Рейгана поддержал, это заставляет переосмыслить ситуацию. Дальше не пишу, а то политика будет. Агент, доверяйте обкому!

Позиция Рорабакера полностью соответствует его взглядам на роль НАСА на протяжении как минимум 10 последних  лет.
Вот часть его интервью от 2000г, из которой хорошо понятно почему он поддержал план Обамы - потому что в нем нет полетов выше ЛЕО.
Мои взгляды абсолютно противоположны - на ЛЕО НАСА делать абсолютно нечего.

Q: What do you think is NASA's greatest achievement?

ROHRABACHER: Everyone's always tempted to say putting the man on the moon at the time period that they did. I think its greatest achievement was reaching the level of technical expertise that it did that permitted the trip and permitted Skylab (the first U.S. space station). The space shuttle is a monumental engineering achievement although we know that there are flaws with the shuttle and flaws with the moon project. Both were so intensive and so resource consuming that they undermined the space program's gradual development and solid development along a broad front. Instead [NASA] raced ahead to show it was possible but in the process used so many resources that it hindered other space development. Both of those were very, very costly and did have their pluses and minuses.

Q: What's the biggest hurdle to commercializing space?

ROHRABACHER: We still do not have a transportation system that has brought down the cost of getting into space. Before we get into anything else, we need to dramatically bring down the cost of getting into space. We're only beyond that (pre-1990s) era of large expensive projects because of some people who have tried to insist that we look at things in a mildly responsible way. When I first got involved in the [House Science] Committee, everyone was talking about going to Mars. It was going to be the ultimate grandiose expensive program. That would have eaten up all of the resources we had for developing new launch capabilities and developing methods of that would open up the doors of commercialization and open up the use of space to the benefit of all of humankind. I've been fighting that flash and glitter approach to NASA for the last 10 years. That may well have been one of the greatest things I've been able to accomplish; to help people from thinking about huge, grandiose programs anymore.

[ronatu]

Q: What's the biggest hurdle to commercializing space?

ROHRABACHER: We still do not have a transportation system that has brought down the cost of getting into space. Before we get into anything else, we need to dramatically bring down the cost of getting into space. We're only beyond that (pre-1990s) era of large expensive projects because of some people who have tried to insist that we look at things in a mildly responsible way. When I first got involved in the [House Science] ................

[/quote]

+5 :!:

[Scarecrow]

Вот часть его интервью от 2000г, из которой хорошо понятно почему он поддержал план Обамы - потому что в нем нет полетов выше ЛЕО.
Мои взгляды абсолютно противоположны - на ЛЕО НАСА делать абсолютно нечего.

Возможно Вы правы. Не знаю. Гольдиновской НАСА все были недовольны, а политответственность лежит частично именно на Рорабахере. С другой стороны, вне LEO и двойного назначения и бизнеса мало. А выделенное Ронату какая-никакая стрaтегия.

[Agent]

Q: What's the biggest hurdle to commercializing space?

ROHRABACHER: We still do not have a transportation system that has brought down the cost of getting into space. Before we get into anything else, we need to dramatically bring down the cost of getting into space. We're only beyond that (pre-1990s) era of large expensive projects because of some people who have tried to insist that we look at things in a mildly responsible way. When I first got involved in the [House Science] ................

+5 :!:

40 лет такой политики со времен отмены Аполло, привели к ситуации что летать приходится на Союзах. Ну не работает это. СНАЧАЛА нужен спрос, а потом будет и предложение. То есть сначала цель, а под нее средства.

[Agent]

Вот часть его интервью от 2000г, из которой хорошо понятно почему он поддержал план Обамы - потому что в нем нет полетов выше ЛЕО.
Мои взгляды абсолютно противоположны - на ЛЕО НАСА делать абсолютно нечего.

Возможно Вы правы. Не знаю. Гольдиновской НАСА все были недовольны, а политответственность лежит частично именно на Рорабахере. С другой стороны, вне LEO и двойного назначения и бизнеса мало. А выделенное Ронату какая-никакая стрaтегия.

НАСА нужно разрабатывать корабль и носитель для BEO. На ЛЕО забить и  просто покупать места. На том же Драконе. Но именно мо той же схеме что сейчас покупаются на Союзе - то есть за кресло по факту.
По плану Обамы НАСА оплатит разработку частникам в размере 100%. Именно это убьет всю идею коммерческого космоса - отсутсвие потребности в частных инвестициях. СпейсХ тут же превратится в жирного, ленивого  и жутко дорогого провайдера по типу Боинга - нет риска - нет эффективности в работе.

[Космос-3794]

И что же такое коммерческий пилотируемый космос? 6 астронавтов в год? Не мелковат рынок?
И что меняет потребность в частных инвестициях?
Ну инвестировали Боинг и Локхид в свое время в EELV, и немало, и что?
Пролетели как фанера над Киевом. А результат?
Теперь не только от собственных инвестиций, но и от контрактов (государственных) с фиксированными ценами бегут как черт от ладана.
Давайте не путать Божий дар с яичницей. Космическая индустрия это не производство массовой продукции, простых решений не существует, а глупостей наворотить легко.