CEV "Constellation" и лунная программа НАСА

[ДмитрийК]

Вот как!

nasaspaceflight.com убрал с сайта статью и презентацию. Утверждается что материалы были "подправлены" тем кто их предоставил. Это звучит как весьма серьезное обвинение:
http://nasaspaceflight.com/content/?id=4430

...data was altered to support the position of the person who provided the information...

[Agent]

Агент, спасибо за данные по водородным бакам, очень любопытно. Если еще чего попадётся - валите сюда, не стесняйтесь :wink:

Есть еще наработки по композитам. Такой непроверенный экстрим для Лунной программы не прокатит, но лет через 10 мож чего и получиться использовать
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=14973

"These tests prove that it's possible to build a lightweight fuel tank that's not only a safe, reliable container for liquid hydrogen," said Drew Smith, NASA's cryotanks project leader, "but also a durable, reusable component that can also help us reduce the costs associated with acquiring and operating a reusable launch vehicle." Composite cryogenic fuel tanks also offer a 10 to 25 percent weight savings over conventional aluminum fuel tanks, he added, which could enable larger payloads in the future.

...

The composite tank used for the tests was a 6-foot-diameter, 15-foot-long tank produced by Northrop Grumman as part of NASA's Next Generation Launch Technology program. The tank was fabricated and cryo-structurally tested at the agency's Marshall Space Flight Center.

"Each cycle in our test program consisted of filling the tank with liquid hydrogen, pressurizing to an internal pressure of 113 pounds per square inch, then subjecting it an axial load to simulate the stresses experienced by a rocket during launch," explained Tod Palm, Northrop Grumman's cryogenic tank project leader. "Nine months and 40 cycles of testing and monitoring the composite test tank for leaks has given us the confidence that this type of cryogenic fuel tank can be safely and repeatedly launched, recovered and reused for next-generation space missions." An axial load is applied along the vertical axis of the launch vehicle.

Much of the team's success in the test program, added Palm, can be attributed to key technical advances made by Northrop Grumman and NASA in designing and constructing the composite tank. The tank is approximately one quarter of the projected size (27.5 feet in diameter x 80 feet long) of a fuel tank envisioned for some reusable launch vehicle concepts.

[Лютич]

Вот как!

nasaspaceflight.com убрал с сайта статью и презентацию. Утверждается что материалы были "подправлены" тем кто их предоставил. Это звучит как весьма серьезное обвинение

Вполне можно допустить и такой вариант, если вспомнить тот шквал воплей и критики после публикации данных ESAS со стороны лагранжистов и любителей EELVа.

[Fakir]

Agent

Есть еще наработки по композитам. Такой непроверенный экстрим для Лунной программы не прокатит, но лет через 10 мож чего и получиться использовать

Ну это для пилотируемой экстрим, а грузы таскать - самое оно. А если еще горючку электротягой...

a 10 to 25 percent weight savings over conventional aluminum fuel tanks,

Это хорошо, конечно, но само по себе не то чтоб сильно вдохновляет. Такая экономия хороша на РН, а на космическом аппарате, где масса баков и сама от силы процентов 10, а то и 5 - не много выгадаешь.
Интереснее, что там в плане теплоизоляции, какие темпы выкипания...

[Agent]

Композиты позволят поднять давление в баке. Значительно. Что может оказаться выгоднее соотв теплозащиты.

[X]

Композиты позволят поднять давление в баке. Значительно. Что может оказаться выгоднее соотв теплозащиты.

 Как-то тут кто-то доказывал, что композиты это "ужас нерождённого". Убедительно так доказывал.

[X]

Какойто журналист решил прочитать ESAS наконец. И всех "удивил".
LSAM и СаLV настолько далеко (как и 1.5 схема пуска), что все может перетасоваться кучу раз.
Запросто может появится метановый CEV к тому времени, например.
Или по настоящему одноразовый SSME.
Для того CEV,  что "взамен Шаттла" (те к 2012), метан представляет риск как недостаточно проверенная технология. Это было зарание известно и финансируются 2 варианта паралельно.

ЗЫ: в ESAS рассмотрены ВСЕ возможные комбинации двигателей, топлив, сроков, бюджетов, целей и тд. Был выбран оптимум по определенному нобору критериев. Критерии могут (и будут) меняться. Смотрим в соотв таблицу и читаем, что куда лезет и сколько это будет стоить. Все просто.
Это здесь на форуме половина обсуждений - "а что будет, если залить водород на вторую ступень"

 То, что может появиться, появится обязательно.
 Будет новая администрация в Белом Доме. Вот она и решит всё.
 А так, это химеры или горгульи, как кому больше нравится.

[Agent]

Болшие Буквы прорезались на 29 посте.

[Fakir]

Agent

Композиты позволят поднять давление в баке. Значительно. Что может оказаться выгоднее соотв теплозащиты.
 

Логично. Забыл про это
А количественные оценки есть?

[ratman]

А метановые движки тем временем все-таки испытывают...

NASA, industry and the U.S. Air Force have achieved a major milestone in the development of next-generation spaceflight technologies, successfully completing a 103-second hot-fire test of an engine fueled by liquid oxygen and liquid methane.

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=19608

[Agent]

Как я понял, это они в скафандры хотят ЖК заливать

Asgard Holdings Inc. (Pink Sheet:AGHG), http://www.asgard-holdings.com, announced that its affiliate, SuperCritical Thermal Systems, Inc. (STS), is working in conjunction with Hamilton Sunstrand Space Systems of Windsor Locks, Connecticut to produce a lightweight, compact liquid oxygen Dewar for the Advanced Space Oxygen System (ASOS). This system is being designed and developed for the NASA Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. The ASOS would be used for spacecraft extra vehicular activities (EVA) and for exploration activities on the Moon and planet Mars over the next few decades. Delivery of the prototype Dewar is scheduled within the month of May. Asgard and STS have signed a contract to form an intermediary company, Super Thermal Systems Management Group, Inc. (STSM), half owed by each, to pursue business in the field of advanced and cryogenic breathing apparatus.

[Agent]

А метановые движки тем временем все-таки испытывают...

Причем, работы независимо ведут несколько контор

NASA selected ATK GASL, Ronkonkoma, N.Y., for an advanced propulsion development contract. The maximum value of the cost plus fixed fee contract is $10,357,173.

The contract is for the design, development, fabrication, testing, and evaluation of a 7500-lbf constant-thrust, pressure-fed bipropellant rocket engine assembly using liquid oxygen and liquid methane as propellants.

NASA selected KT Engineering, Huntsville, Ala., for an advanced propulsion development contract. The maximum value of the cost plus fixed fee contract is $5,831,425.

The contract is for the design, development, fabrication, testing, and evaluation of a 7500-lbf constant-thrust, pressure-fed bipropellant rocket engine assembly using liquid oxygen and liquid methane as propellants.

[ronatu]

NASA officials have decided to use the RS-68 engine, and not a derivative of the Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME), on the first stage of its planned heavy-lift Cargo Launch Vehicle (CaLV), a key element of the agency's exploration architecture. NASa has decided to use five RS-68 engines in the core stage of the CaLV rather than a similar number of SSMEs after concluding that the RS-68 would be cheaper: the engine, currently used on the first stage of the Delta 4, costs $20 million each, a "dramatic cost savings" over an SSME-derived alternative, according to a NASA statement. Both engines are built by Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne. Switching to the RS-68 will require widening the core stage propellant tanks from 8.4 to 10 meters in diameter because of the additional propellant required by the engines. The decision means that the SSME will likely be retired when the shuttle fleet is retired in 2010: NASA earlier decided to use a derivative of the Apollo-era J-2 engine on the second stage of the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV), rather than a modified SSME.

[Александр Ч.]

Американские астронавты впервые полетят на "Пилотируемом исследовательском корабле" в 2014 г.

7 июня 2006
/АРМС-ТАСС/
Американские астронавты в 2014 г. совершат первый полет на новом "Пилотируемом исследовательском корабле" (ПИК), который заменит нынешние МТКК. Об этом заявил в штаб-квартире НАСА директор программы "Констеллейшн" ("Созвездие") Джефф Хэнли. Эта программа, в частности, предусматривает пилотируемые полеты на Луну и Марс, для чего и необходим ПИК.

По словам Хэнли, сейчас рассматриваются возможности осуществления первых, сопутствующих разработке нового аппарата, "рабочих" пусков. Они могут состояться уже в апреле 2009 г., когда к первой ступени "рабочего" носителя будут пристыкованы модель следующей ступени и модель ПИК. Это необходимо для оценки концепции программы.

Испытательные беспилотные пуски должны начаться в 2012 г. Все окончательные решения будут приняты ближе к концу 2006 г., отметил Хэнли. Одновременно он выразил уверенность в том, что НАСА сможет обеспечить решение поставленных задач, и к 2020 г. человек снова высадится на Луне.

Разработка нового пилотируемого космического корабля доверена Исследовательскому центру Гленна (шт. Огайо). Другие работы по реализации программы "Констеллейшн" распределены между десятью различными центрами НАСА.

Первую высадку астронавтов на Луну США осуществили в 1969 г., а в последнюю - в 1972 г.

[Олигарх]

NASA officials have decided to use the RS-68 engine, and not a derivative of the Space Shuttle Main Engine (SSME), on the first stage of its planned heavy-lift Cargo Launch Vehicle (CaLV), a key element of the agency's exploration architecture. NASa has decided to use five RS-68 engines in the core stage of the CaLV rather than a similar number of SSMEs after concluding that the RS-68 would be cheaper: the engine, currently used on the first stage of the Delta 4, costs $20 million each, a "dramatic cost savings" over an SSME-derived alternative, according to a NASA statement. Both engines are built by Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne. Switching to the RS-68 will require widening the core stage propellant tanks from 8.4 to 10 meters in diameter because of the additional propellant required by the engines. The decision means that the SSME will likely be retired when the shuttle fleet is retired in 2010: NASA earlier decided to use a derivative of the Apollo-era J-2 engine on the second stage of the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV), rather than a modified SSME.

Американский Старый, как всегда, крут:  

Scrap The Stick Now

By Jeffrey F. Bell
Honolulu HI (SPX) Aug 11, 2006

There seems to be general agreement that the Vision for Space Exploration is
 in deep trouble. Recently both the staid number-crunchers at Government
Accountability Office (GAO) and the wild-eyed libertarians at the Space
Frontier Foundation have issued reports questioning the viability of the program.

The GAO analysis is concerned with management and contracting issues, and
the SFF screed merely demands bigger government subsidies for the alt.space
industry.

My report will concentrate on what is
!!! really killing the program:

the Ares I booster, formerly the Crew Launch Vehicle and
vulgarly known as The Stick.

The Stick began as a back-of-the-envelope design by some NASA astronauts
who were angry about the Columbia crash and frankly terrified at the prospect
 of continuing to fly on the fundamentally defective Space Shuttle.
They needed a design which could be quickly designed and put into service
before the Shuttle killed another crew.

This implied that the new booster should use existing Shuttle components to
avoid a long development and qualification program. The Shuttle-derived concept
 also was essential to gain political support from the existing Shuttle
contractors and their representatives in Congress. Given these constraints,
it was inevitable that The Stick would end up as a single SSME stuck on top
of a single SRB.

It is important to remember that this design predates the VSE and was not
intended for Moon or Mars missions. At this time it was assumed that NASA
would continue to be focused on ISS for the foreseeable future.
The Stick was only intended to replace the Shuttle for ISS crew exchange
missions.

For a long while The Stick had only an unofficial existence on the fringes
of the space community. The first study was actually done by the Planetary
Society, an organization advocating unmanned missions which has never before
 taken any interest in the troubles of the manned program.

But when the shadowy authors of the VSE plan placed a hard limit of 2010 on
Shuttle operations and 2016 on US participation in the ISS, The Stick suddenly
became the
!!! only lifeline for the standing army of contractor employees and civil
servants employed in the STS program. The SRB contractor ATK staged
the most extensive publicity campaign in the history of the US aerospace
industry, promoting The Stick with giant centerfold ads that proclaimed
it as "Safe, Simple, and Soon".

Then a major advocate of The Stick was appointed NASA Administrator. Mike Griffin
 insured that it became a major element of the return-to-the-Moon program
- not only as an ISS ferry rocket, but as an element of the "1.5-launch"
lunar landing plan.

I and many critics have argued for some time that this plan would turn out
to be far too complicated and expensive once real engineers started working
out the technical details. And this is exactly what has happened.

The second stage's air-start SSME engine turned out to be unworkable and had
 to be replaced with an Apollo-derived "J-2X" engine. This new second stage
didn't have enough puff to reach orbit without the help of a new 5-segment SRB.

This new SRB-5B is
!!! totally different from the current SRB-4 or even the old SRB-5A
that was partly developed for the now-cancelled Shuttle upgrade program.
Shuttle SRBs carry their loads divided between two side attachments
!!! instead of concentrated on the top dome.
They also don't have to steer themselves through wind shears with a huge
low-density hydrogen tank on top acting as a sail.

The current Ares I has essentially no commonality with the Space Shuttle and
will therefore take longer than The Original Stick to be developed and
thoroughly tested.
Current plans call for launching the first manned Ares-Orion test mission
in late 2014. Regular missions to the ISS probably won't start until 2015
- and with normal schedule slippage, not until after US participation
in ISS is supposed to end in 2016.

One of the major justifications for The Stick was that it would give
the thousands of workers who refurbish SRBs something to do in the gap
between Shuttle and Ares V (CaLV). Clearly the delays introduced by dropping
most Shuttle heritage will introduce another gap in SRB operations
in 2010-2014. To close this employment gap,
the planners of Project Orion have come up with a ridiculous "test" program
 in which the first few launches of Ares I will use first stages
cobbled together from 4-segment Shuttle SRBs and dummy 5th segments.

These proposed tests can't make any meaningful engineering contribution
to the program. The flight dynamics of
!!! this Frankenbooster would be totally
 different from the operational vehicle due to its ~20% lower thrust.
These launches have been inserted into the program only as an excuse to
funnel about $400M/yr to Utah to maintain the SRB refurbishment facilities.

So The Stick has turned out to have none of the properties attributed to it
by its promoters. Instead of being simple, it is extremely complicated.
Instead of being soon, it is late - so late that it cannot make a meaningful
 contribution to supporting the ISS. And the safety numbers assigned to it
by NASA are sheer fantasy.

More importantly, Ares I no longer accomplishes the political goals of
maintaining steady employment at ATK and keeping Utah's congressmen in line.
 Instead, it has become a millstone around the neck of the entire VSE program.
 Even if Ares I were to be developed, it would lead to the ridiculous situation
 where the manned side of NASA would be operating two distinct booster designs,
 each of which would fly only twice per year.
This is a recipe for super-high operations costs
!!! (rumored to exceed $5B per lunar landing).

At the same time, the various US unmanned space programs will be using
two more distinct booster families with low flight rates,
each of which essentially !!! duplicates the performance of Ares I.

Mike Griffin needs to admit he was wrong about The Stick and pull the plug on
 it before any more time and money is wasted. He should replace Ares I with
either the Delta-4 or Atlas-5. Better yet, he could scrap the 1.5-launch
lunar mission plan and go back to Von Braun's original EOR concept
with two Saturn-IV class HLVs.

Both these options might require a significant reduction in the weight of
the Orion (CEV) spacecraft by changes
I will discuss in a future column.
This might be a painful exercise, but it can't possibly be worse
than pressing on with The Stick.

Jeffrey F. Bell is a former space scientist and recovering pro-space activist.


Однако, у NASA, как оказалось, есть кое-что в запасе":

NASA has 5-Seg CLV Alternatives - NASA SpaceFlight.com  
NASA has 5-Seg CLV
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4670

Alternatives
By Chris Bergin / Daniel Handlin, 7/27/2006 10:15:00 AM
       
 В© NASA via sourcesNASA, world renowned for having a back up plan, has one
 for the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV), with a new 2x3-segment SRB (Solid
 Rocket Booster) CLV design, held as a concept - in case major problems
 with the current 5-segment Ares I booster arise.

 The new booster would employ twin three-segment SRBs and a liquid-fueled
 core stage, which - overall - would be significantly cheaper in terms of
 some ground processing and infrastructure costs, and perhaps easier to control.
...

[foogoo]

[Logan]

Да... Физики шутят  

[Agent]

Итак, через неделю обьявят победителя

NASA Exploration Systems' managers will host a press conference at 4 p.m. EDT Thursday, Aug. 31, to announce the prime contractor to design, develop, and build Orion, America's next human spacecraft.

[Agent]

Еще несколько часов....
Ну что, какие ставки?
Лично я за Локхид, но думаю что выиграет Боинг.
У последнего технические решения менее изящные, но зато куда лучше умеют убеждать покупателя...

[Not]

Еще несколько часов....
Ну что, какие ставки?
Лично я за Локхид, но думаю что выиграет Боинг.
У последнего технические решения менее изящные, но зато куда лучше умеют убеждать покупателя...

NASA has selected Lockheed Martin Corp. as the prime contractor to design, develop, and build Orion, America's spacecraft for a new generation of explorers.

The Orion crew capsule will carry astronauts back to the moon and later to Mars. The first flight with astronauts aboard is planned for no later than 2014. Orion's first flight to the moon is planned for no later than 2020.

Orion improves on the best features of Project Apollo and the Space Shuttle Program, increasing the likelihood of success. Versatility will be Orion's trademark. It is being designed to fly to the moon, but could also be used to service the International Space Station in low-Earth orbit.