Ariane-6 Next Generation Launcher

[SFN]

Я правильно понял 6.5t GTO на 3х "пудренницах",  и 3.5t на 2х?

[instml]

Дмитрий В. пишет:

Salo пишет:
Левый вариант только у меня вызывает ассоциации с продукцией сексшопа?

Да, уж    Редкостная порнуха. Надеюсь, что это всего лишь 1-апрельская шутка (неудачая).

Over 100 concepts were studied before deciding on a 3-stage PPH configuration.
The PPH configuration will comprise 2 solid-booster stages and a 3rd liquid hydrogen and oxygen stage, like the current Ariane 5," explains Joseph Berenbach. The thinking behind this decision is basically that solid boosters can be series-produced economically while the upper cryogenic stage engine will significantly enhance the launcher's performance.

Я что-то такое предлагал давным-давно. Французы молодцы  

[SFN]

Водородная в диаметре 4,4м Порошковая Р135 - 3,7м
3 октября из Неаполя http://www.astrowatch.net/2012/10/cnes-asi-favor-solid-rocket-design-for.html
A third design, the P7C, would use a single solid-rocket stage based on the P135 engine as a building block to be arranged in linear and "faggot" configurations. Like the P1B, the P7C would use a 3.7-meter-dia. monolithic casing. But, unlike the P1B, each of the P7C stages would feature TVC, a factor that could increase costs.

"You could have a configuration with three P135s making a real first stage, ignited all together on the ground and separated all together, so there is no need to have separations between the stages," Bonnal says.

The P7C has the advantage of smaller stages, with the P135 falling in the range of what Europe's mostly Italian-built Vega launcher demonstrated this year with its P80 first-stage engine, Bonnal says.

[Salo]

Перспектива союзовского старта в Куру?

[Salo]

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/35469with-ariane-6-launch-site-selected-cnes-aims-to-freeze-design-of-the-new#.UaDMONjgnpM

With Ariane 6 Launch Site Sel ected, CNES Aims To Freeze Design of the New Rocket in July
 
 By Peter B. de Selding | May. 24, 2013


 The rocket and the launch installation are being designed to operate Ariane 6 at least eight times per year. Credit: ESA artist's concept

Спойлер

PARIS — The French space agency, CNES, expects to freeze the final design of the new-generation Ariane 6 launcher by July, a milestone that will trigger work on a new launch pad in French Guiana whose location has already been decided, according to CNES officials.
The rocket and the launch installation are being designed to operate Ariane 6 at least eight times per year, with a mission goal of 12 flights annually to keep production and operations costs within the targeted 70 million euros ($91 million) per launch.
At somewhere between eight and 12 flights per year, including three or four European government missions, Ariane 6 would no longer need the annual price supports that the current heavy-lift Ariane 5 still requires despite a decade-long run without a failure.
The 20-nation European Space Agency (ESA) pays about 100 million euros per year to the Arianespace commercial launch consortium to permit the Evry, France-based company to avoid financial losses.
The 70 million euro target for Ariane 6 is viewed as an all-in cost that would include about 14 million euros per launch in ground operations and also would include the sales and marketing charges incurred by Arianespace.
Taking advantage of work done years ago on what was then a quarry, CNES officials have selected a site to the north of the Ariane 5's launch site for Ariane 6, an area called Roche Nicole. Quarry construction left a large pit, now filled with water, that will be used for the Ariane 6 flame trench.
CNES officials say that because of the quarry work, done to support launches of the now-retired Ariane 4 rocket, the flame trench is now the equivalent of 70 percent complete even though no work has begun on it.
CNES managers at the Guiana Space Center spaceport, on the northeast coast of South America, recall the difficulties they had in completing the flame pit for Russia's Soyuz rocket, which is operated fr om the European spaceport under an agreement with the Russian government that expires at the end of 2016.
ESA governments, after a long debate between France and Germany, in November agreed to fund initial design work on Ariane 6 while at the same time continuing development of an upgraded Ariane 5 rocket, called Ariane 5 ME, that could fly in 2017.
These governments are scheduled to meet again in late 2014 to decide on full-scale development of Ariane 6 and the final phase of Ariane 5 ME. It is unclear whether ESA governments will be able to afford to do both.
Ariane 6 would fly in 2020 assuming a development go-ahead in 2014. CNES's Ariane 6 team is operating under the "triple-seven" mantra, meaning seven years' development, 7 metric tons of satellite payload to geostationary transfer orbit and 70 million euros in launch costs.
CNES estimates that Ariane 6 would cost 4 billion euros to develop, including ESA's customary program management fees and a 20 percent margin that ESA embeds in most of its programs.
In the spring 2013 edition of CNES's quarterly in-house magazine, CNES Launcher Director Michel Eymard says the remaining design choices for Ariane 6 should be completed by late April. That deadline has now shifted to early July as CNES, ESA and industry discuss the number and size of solid-fueled boosters that would form the first two stages of Ariane 6.
The basic Ariane 6 design — two or more solid-fueled motors on the first stage, a second stage comprised of the same motor and a cryogenic upper stage based on the Safran/Snecma-built Vinci restartable engine — has been decided by ESA governments.
In addition to doing away with many of the electronics units, cables and connectors now used on the Ariane 5 rocket in favor of circuit boards, Ariane 6's ground installations must be entirely rethought in the design-to-cost approach, according to CNES.
Ariane 5 uses thousands of cubic meters of helium each year. Ariane 6 will use nitrogen or gaseous hydrogen, both less expensive. The Ariane 5 launcher-integration and final assembly buildings will be scrapped as part of the effort to drive out unnecessary costs.
The Ariane 6 upper stage and the satellite payloads would be mated to the lower stages on the launch pad. To maintain the 12-per-year cadence, two launch-preparation zones will be built.
Eymard said the launcher preparation will adopt a "plug and play" approach. "We erect it, test it and launch it," he said in the CNES magazine presentation, adding that a last-minute rocket or satellite issue should permit Ariane 6 teams to replace the vehicle or the payload and be ready to launch within 15 days.
With their teeth in a major new engineering project, the enthusiasm for Eymard and his team is palpable. Less so is the one major question hanging over the Ariane 6 project: How will a major role for German industry be found to secure German government support for Ariane 6?

[свернуть]

[Mark]

Создание Арианы-6 и эволюция этого носителя.
 
1) Стоимость продукцйи А-6 будет на 33-40% менше от Ариане-5. Да, очен много !
2) Ест тоже росматрывана возможность что ЦБ получы метановы 4000 КН двигател от проэкта Волга.
    а- масса ЦБ на метан - 300 тонн
    б- масса ЦБ на водороде - около 170 тонн
3) Конфигурация носителя будет в 2014 при встрече министров (франции и Германии) постановлена.
4) Первый старт будет в 2021г, и стоимость сосданиа 4-5 миллиарды Еуро
5) Стоимость старта будет на около 70 Миллион Еуро, при 12 стартов в год


http://www.bernd-leitenberger.de/ariane6.shtml

[Salo]

http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/35546europe-urged-to-halt-work-on-%E2%80%98dead-end-ariane-6-design#.Uagk-diBXTo

Europe Urged To Halt Work on 'Dead End' Ariane 6 Design
By Peter B. de Selding | May. 30, 2013

PARIS — Europe's Air & Space Academy says the French and European space agencies are moving in the wrong direction on the future Ariane 6 rocket and should delay development in favor of a redesign that provides more growth potential.

The academy is urging the agencies to stop work on the Ariane 6 they approved in November with a view to beginning full development in 2014. The academy-favored rocket would use liquid propulsion instead of solid, and would face four more years of preparatory work before moving to full development in 2018.

In the meantime, the academy says, Europe should focus on an upgraded heavy-lift Ariane 5 that would fly for a decade before both it and the Europeanized version of Russia's medium-lift Soyuz rocket are replaced by the all-liquid Ariane 6 in 2027. This rocket, called Ariane 5 ME, has been in design for several years. Continued work on it was approved, alongside Ariane 6, at the November meeting of European Space Agency (ESA) governments.

Спойлер

Further modifications of the Ariane 5 ME could be made to assure it is capable of maintaining Europe's place in the global market to launch commercial telecommunications satellites. The academy suggests that the Ariane 5 ME's promise of de-orbiting its upper stage to remove orbital debris could be suspended, when necessary, to give the vehicle the requisite payload-lift capability.

In a May 8 letter sent to ESA Director-General Jean-Jacques Dordain, the academy's launch vehicle working group — comprised of former ESA directors and European space industry officials — urges ESA to "urgently reopen the configuration studies" for Ariane 6.

The academy specifically alleges that the current Ariane 6 version of two solid-fueled stages topped by a cryogenic upper stage is a dead-end design that does not permit the flexibility needed in a rocket that will serve as Europe's main launcher for several decades. "It is the wrong choice," the letter says.

Beyond the engineering debate of solid- versus liquid-fueled rockets — a debate as old as the space age — the academy's letter and annex of supporting arguments says the current Ariane 6 design cannot win sufficient political support in Europe to assure its long-term success.

"The upheaval of the European launcher industry which would ensue with the development of [the solid-fueled Ariane 6 now being designed] would not be industrially recoverable," the letter says. "Further, it would be extremely difficult to maintain the European character of such a program and to rally around it broad support from [ESA] member states."

The academy reasons that the design-to-cost obsession of Ariane 6 promoters will force the program into a corner in which too few European governments will be motivated to support its expected development cost of around 4 billion euros ($5.2 billion).

The backers of the current Ariane 6 design agree that one of the program's principal challenges, in addition to meeting the goal of a vehicle that can be assembled and launched for 70 million euros, is finding sufficient room for German industry to entice German government financial support.

The friction between France and Germany on the way forward in launch vehicles was papered over at ESA's November meeting by an agreement to continue work on both Ariane 5 ME and Ariane 6, with a separate budget line devoted to finding synergies between the two vehicles' upper stages.

Whether both vehicles' full development can be financed at next year's ESA conference is unclear. German government officials have said: We support Ariane 5 ME and we will reserve judgment on Ariane 6. French officials say: We are all-in for Ariane 6, and unsure about Ariane 5 ME.

In an annex to its letter to ESA, the academy says a liquid-fueled Ariane 6 would not cost much more than the current solid-fueled Ariane 6 design but would provide more room for growth as the vehicle navigates the launch-services market's evolution over the next few decades.

The annex notes that launchers in the United States, Russia and China all feature liquid-fueled designs, and that even the solid-fueled Ariane 6 will have trouble meeting the 70-million-euro cost target.

The academy estimates that today's Ariane 5 ECA rocket costs 145 million euros per launch. The solid-fueled Ariane 6 will likely cost 98 million per launch, at least at the outset. It will be difficult to cut costs to arrive at the announced target.

The liquid-fueled Ariane 6 would also cost 98 million euros per launch, meaning costs should not be a factor in the competing designs.

"Is it possible to get a 25-30 percent reduction in launch cost? The 70-million-euro objective is, in any case, difficult to attain ... since one cannot expect meaningful technological jumps in the solid boosters' domain."

But while it costs little more than the solid-fueled version, the liquid-fueled Ariane 6 could be upgraded with two liquid-fueled strap-on boosters to provide substantially more heft. The academy calls this rocket the Ariane 6 Heavy and it resembles the Delta 4 Heavy.

"The commitment made will cover a very long time, many decades," the academy says in urging ESA to step back from the current Ariane 6 design. "Any error made will be very costly, for a very long time."

[свернуть]

[SFN]

Salo пишет:
Перспектива союзовского старта в Куру?

Повторят на новом месте?
 
Taking advantage of work done years ago on what was then a quarry, CNES officials have selected a site to the north of the Ariane 5's launch site for Ariane 6, an area called Roche Nicole. Quarry construction left a large pit, now filled with water, that will be used for the Ariane 6 flame trench.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=31484.msg1057597#msg1057597

[George]

SFN пишет:
Повторят на новом месте?

Ну вот, распиливание по европейски. На Куру есть старый старт для "Ариан-4", там все есть, лотки, стол. Поставить новую башню и все, СК "Ариан-6" готов. "Вега" была поставлена на древний старт от "Европы-2".

ИМХО, СК "Союза" в Куру ждет судьба музейного экспоната. Это слишком оригинальный старт, чтобы приспосабливать его под другие РН. И пока не ясно, как пойдут дела, ведь "Союз" с Куру в два раза дешевле "Ариан-6".

[Дмитрий В.]

George пишет:
 И пока не ясно, как пойдут дела, ведь "Союз" с Куру в два раза дешевле "Ариан-6".

А в сколько раз Союз менее грузоподъъемен на ГПО, чем Ариан-6?

[George]

Дмитрий В. пишет:
А в сколько раз Союз менее грузоподъъемен на ГПО, чем Ариан-6?

"Ариан-6" предполагается модульным, и он захватит ПН "Союза". В первую очередь "Ариан-6" предназначена для одиночных пусков на ГПО. "Ариан-5" слишком дорогая и неудобная, ведь надо ждать пару. К тому же сидит на дотации.

ИМХО, менее чем в два раза. И я надеюсь, что спутники из его диапазона останутся за "Союзом".

[Mark]

Дмитрий В. пишет:

George пишет:
И пока не ясно, как пойдут дела, ведь "Союз" с Куру в два раза дешевле "Ариан-6".

А в сколько раз Союз менее грузоподъъемен на ГПО, чем Ариан-6?

Стоимость старту Союса из Kourou есть на 70 миллион Еуро, если правилные. 
Стоимость Ариане-6 тоже на 70 миллион Еуро и 7 тонн на GTO.

[Дмитрий В.]

George пишет:

Дмитрий В. пишет:
А в сколько раз Союз менее грузоподъъемен на ГПО, чем Ариан-6?

"Ариан-6" предполагается модульным, и он захватит ПН "Союза". В первую очередь "Ариан-6" предназначена для одиночных пусков на ГПО. "Ариан-5" слишком дорогая и неудобная, ведь надо ждать пару. К тому же сидит на дотации.

ИМХО, менее чем в два раза. И я надеюсь, что спутники из его диапазона останутся за "Союзом".

Пуск Ариан--6 должен стоить 60% от пуска Ариан-5, т.е. около 90-100 млн. евро. При этом Ариан-6 должна выводить на ГПО до 7-8 т., что более чем вдвое выше, чем у Союза. Если все цифры верны, то удельная стоимость выведения на ГПО у Ариан-6 существенно ниже, чем у Союза.

[Mark]

В январе 2013 года была в Берлиние конференця с Jean-Yves Le Gall. Некаторые интересные
ответы :
 
1) Стоимость старту Ariane V сказал он на 200 Миллион $
2) Стоимость Ariane 6 будет на 70 Миллион $
3) Тоже интересно что первый старт А-6 будет без ПН, будет тестовы старт. 

 http://www.raumfahrer.net/sys/print/print.php

[Mark]

Дмитрий В. пишет:
Если все цифры верны, то удельная стоимость выведения на ГПО у Ариан-6 существенно ниже, чем у Союза.

А кака ест вообще стоимость транспорта Союза от России до Куру, очень длиная дорога. Наверно идёт на несколько миллионов.

[Glaurung]

George пишет:
Ну вот, распиливание по европейски. На Куру есть старый старт для "Ариан-4", там все есть, лотки, стол. Поставить новую башню и все, СК "Ариан-6" готов. "Вега" была поставлена на древний старт от "Европы-2".

[Glaurung]

Воистину распил! До самой ж....

[George]

Glaurung пишет:
Воистину распил! До самой ж....

Башня РН "Ариан-4" была взорвана в ноябре 2011 года. Она уже за 8 лет обветшала и вообще она, вероятно, не подошла бы к "Ариан-6". "Веге" достались от "Ариан-1,2.3" только стол и газоотводные лотки, все остальное было построено заново специально для нее.

[George]

Анимация полета "Ариан-6".

[George]

Интересно она устроена. Первая ступень состоит из трех ТТУ, которые не разделяются.