Antares (Taurus II)

[Salo]

Вот американцы и сделают новый Союз с нашей помощью. :roll:

[Bell]

Дальше Эд Кайли в ответ:

This rocket, powered by two Russian rocket engines with a Ukrainian-built first stage, will be bought, for ISS missions, with U.S. taxpayer funding.  Hardware built overseas represents lost U.S. jobs and lost U.S. capability.

Given that Congress is pushing to save U.S. space jobs in the current NASA budget fight, how can this outsourced rocket maintain political support?  Or, perhaps, cuts in commercial crew funding in both bills is a sign that it already has lost the fight?

Т.е. как бы намекает, что такой фокус не пройдет

[Salo]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

Но с НК-33 :idea:

[Bell]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

Но с НК-33 :idea:

Т.е. "правильная" Русь-МС

[Salo]

Ёмкость для ЖК везут на космодром MARS:

[Дмитрий В.]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

А это я Антонио на 1-е апреля пдсказал!  

[Salo]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

Но с НК-33 :idea:

Т.е. "правильная" Русь-МС

Да! И первая  ступень там нормального размера с нормальной тяговооруженностью, а не окурок!

[Salo]

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15457.msg622755#msg622755

How is the Taurus II first stage brought in to MARS?

By rail from Dnepro to Oleksandrivka (the big commercial port just south of Odessa) then by ship to Wilmington DE then by road to the HIF.  We've already driven a mock-up first stage from Wilmington to the island using a TWO-turntable trailer.  Quite a show, some of the corners are QUITE tight!...

Trivial pursuit (Taurus II edition) question #17: the S1 passes through Odessa (Ukraine) on its way from Dnipropetrovsk to Oleksandrivka, and also through Odessa (Delaware) on its way from Wilmington to Wallops!

I believe the LOX tank in the picture is bigger and heavier than a Taurus II first stage (actually, what comes from Dnipropetrovsk it is not a complete first stage - just the tanks, so it is somewhat shorter and considerably lighter than the full stage)

[Salo]

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=22340.msg622654#msg622654

Use of RD-0124 as the second stage engine seems to point toward some first stage propellant offloading, unless the NK-33 thrust is increased even more than 108%.  114% (tested in the 1990s) would get Taurus 2e back up to full first stage propellant loading, and easily to the claimed 8.7 tonnes to LEO (perhaps 9 tonnes) from Cape Canaveral.  

 - Ed Kyle

You are reading my mind.  Pity Orbital or Aerojet are not hiring anything I'm qualified for...

Notice that Taurus 2 does what Soyuz 2 can do, but with only two stages and three engines rather than six propulsion modules/engines.   But here's the kicker.  Being able to restart that second stage RD-0124 would allow the rocket to duplicate Soyuz 2-1b/Fregat capabilities - also with only two stages.  (Of course a restartable RD-0124 could provide the same stage-reducing benefit for Soyuz).

 - Ed Kyle

[Salo]

Теперь повторного запуска РД-0124 хотят американцы. Было бы неплохо его сделать.

[Дмитрий В.]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

Типо, вот:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15457.345
 :lol:

[Петр Зайцев]

Уржаться! Это ж Русь-МС!  :lol:

Типо, вот:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15457.345
 :lol:

Ах зараза, как я прозевал этот постинг. Великолепно.
-- P

[Дмитрий В.]

Ах зараза, как я прозевал этот постинг. Великолепно.
-- P

Бывает! :wink:  А вообще, переживания насчет потери раб.мест напрасны. Что если приобрести лцензию? Но не появится ли потом стенаний, что производить ЖРД в США слишком дорого?

[Salo]

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=15457.msg622844#msg622844

...Hardware built overseas represents lost U.S. jobs and lost U.S. capability...

... More importantly, what capability exactly are we losing here? There is no American equivalent of RD-0124, so we're losing nothing!..

Yeah, that's the problem: if the choice is between using a Russian engine and not being able to develop a commercially viable liquid second stage, guess which choice produces more US jobs.

If there were two otherwise equivalent engines, one built in the US, another foreign-built, the only difference being cost, the US-built would have a significant (but not infinite!) advantage - that is why we keep buying computers with CPU and memory chips manufactured overseas...

To boot, rocket engines are not commodities (the way memory chips are today).  So, for instance, IF SpaceX would be willing to sell us a Merlin AND the price and reliability were right, there is still the issue of whether its thrust to weight, Isp, thrust level, etc. are a good match.

It just turns out that the RD-0124's thrust, Isp, packaging, T/W and price are a very good match for a Taurus II Upper Stage (we actually evaluated less expensive engines which were not as good a match in terms of the overall result).  And it is already developed and available (pending final Russian government approval).

[Salo]

similar capacity to the LOX tank of a single Taurus II?

How long of a tank is that???

This just in from Tim Fackler (GSE Chief Engineer):
Tank in 125 ft long (vs about 90 ft for Stage 1) weight 210,000 lb empty (wow! vs. about 29,000 lb for the Stage 1 core) and holds about 80,000 gals of LOX (Stage 1 needs about 43,000 gals. - yes, I hate imperial units too.)

Сухая масса первой ступени таким образом 29000 Х 0,453 кг = 13137 кг. Думаю это масса без двигателей. С двигателями 16т.

И в неё заливают  43000 Х 3,785 л = 162,755 м3 ЖК или 185,704 т.
Керосина будет 185,704т / 2,62 = 70,879 т.

Стартовая масса первой ступени: 16т+185,704т+70,879 т = 272,6 т.

[Bell]

Со второй ступенью и ПН тяговооруженность будет порядка 1,15, маловато.

[Salo]

Стандартная американская тяговооружённость. :wink:

[Salo]

Думаю под жидкостную вторую ступень НК-33 будут форсировать до 185 тс.

[SpaceR]

Думаю под жидкостную вторую ступень НК-33 будут форсировать до 185 тс.

Это 40-летних-то?  :shock:
А им плохо не станет?

[Bell]

Ну вот и узнаем...  

Однако я чертовски сомневаюсь, что НАСА согласится спонсировать весь этот праздник отечественного двигателестроения  :wink:
А-то так под COTS можно и Прогрессы на семерке провести