EM Drive

Автор Искандер, 10.02.2013 06:32:39

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ronatu

10.02.2013 06:32:39 Последнее редактирование: 31.08.2016 20:59:27 от ronatu
The latest EMDrive experiment paper (fr om China) describes their latest thruster and gives the test results in details, showing that with a couple of kilowatts of power they can produce 720 mN (about 72 grams) of thrust.

It may not sound very much, less than three ounces, but in space a little thrust goes a long way.
Boeing's advanced XIPS thruster, which fires out Xenon ions at high speed, generates less than a quarter as much thrust from twice as much power. It's used to maintain satellites in position, or move them to a slightly different orbit.
Crucially, Xips weights about twenty kilos, more than an equivalent EmDrive, and the propellant for prolonged operation can weigh much more.

Nextbigfuture covered the EMDrive work back in 2008 and 2009 The heart of the Emdrive is a resonant, tapered cavity filled with microwaves. According to Shawyer, a relativistic effect generates a net thrust, an effect confirmed by various Emdrives he has built as demonstrations. Critics say that any thrust from the drive must come from another source. Shawyer is adamant that the measured thrust is not caused by other factors.

In 2008, professor Yang Juan of the College of Astronautics at Northwestern Polytechnical University (NPU) in Xi'an was happy to confirm that they were building an Emdrive.

Shawyer now estimates that the prototype superconducting thruster could be ready in 2016. He previously was talking about having such a system in about 2010.

Other coverage of the EMDrive at Nextbigfuture.

Superconducting EMDrive has not yet been built

The EMdrive enables superconducting cavities to very efficiently create static thrust. Thrust is measured in "pounds of thrust" in the U.S. and in Newtons under the metric system (4.45 Newtons of thrust equals 1 pound of thrust). 300 pounds of thrust is 1335 Newtons of thrust. 6 kilowatts of input means that 222.5 N/kW.

Apparently the 6.8 million Q device has 143 kg opf thrust from 6 kW input.

Effect of increased Q for the Emdrive

Q=50,000 (1st gen.) Static thrust=315 mN/kW Specific thrust at 3km/s=200mN/kW

Q=6,800,000 (supercond) Static thrust=222 N/kW Specific thrust at ??km/s=??N/kW

Q=5* 10**9 (supercond) Static thrust=31.5 kN/kW Specific thrust at 0.1km/s=8.8N/kW

Q=10**11 (supercond) Static thrust=630 kN/kW Specific thrust at 0.1km/s=??N/kW

//

Net thrust measurement of propellantless microwave thrusters (12 pages)

ABSTRACT - According to classical electromagnetic theory, this paper introduces a new kind of propellantless microwave thruster device for use in space propulsion. This device is able to directly convert microwave radiation into thrust without the need for any propulsion medium. The difference with traditional space propulsion devices is that this system means there is no need to carry a large propellant tank, and the problems of plume emissions polluting the space craft can be eliminated. The system comprises a frustum microwave resonator, microwave source, and load. The microwave source produces microwave radiation which can be input into the frustum microwave resonator and form a pure standing wave and electromagnetic pressure gradient. Thus, along the axial direction of the frustum microwave resonator, net thrust is formed. This article, based on the indifferent equilibrium principle, overcomes the weight and rigidity resistance of the thruster itself, and successfully measures the net thrust produced by the propellantless microwave thruster. The results show that: Based on classical electromagnetic theory, creating a propellantless microwave propulsion system can produce a net thrust; when the microwave source output is 2.45GHz, with a microwave power of 80-2500W, the propulsion produced by the thruster is located in the range of 70-720mN, and the total measurement error is less than 12%.

Aviation Week covered the work back in November of 2012

In 2011, Shawyer Claimed to solve the acceleration lim itation problem

The Second generation EmDrive was presented in 2011.

* First generation, low thrust technology, designed for in-orbit applications, transferred to US.

*Experimental second generation (2G) high thrust device, cooled by liquid Nitrogen, achieved design Q value

*Theoretical study solved dynamic problem for 2G engines. Solution has led to designs for launch vehicle and terrestrial applications
Когда жизнь экзаменует - первыми сдают нервы.


mefisto_x

«Россия это окутанная тайной загадка внутри головоломки» У. Черчиль

Цитатаmefisto_x пишет:
а это куда в черную дыру или ох, умора  :?:  
 https://www.google.ru/search?q=EmDrive&oq=EmDrive&aqs=chrome..69i57.1500j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
Ну, по крайней мере это не инерцоид.
КАКТОТАК
----------------------------
Моделью ракеты можно достичь модели Марса

Кубик

03.08.2014 23:18:00 #4 Последнее редактирование: 31.08.2016 21:02:22 от Кубик
ЦитатаАлександр Шлядинский пишет:
Цитатаmefisto_x

пишет:
а это куда в черную дыру или ох, умора
https://www.google.ru/search?q=EmDrive&oq=EmDrive&aqs=chrome..69i57.1500j0j1&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8
Ну, по крайней мере это не инерцоид.
Ещё не поздно счесть его аналогом:
http://www.scitech-news.ru/2014/08/nasa-podtverdilo-rabotosposobnost-mikrovolnovyx-dvigatelej/

В отличие от традиционного двигателя сжигания, который для перемещения создает взрывы топлива, EmDrive использует микроволны внутри закрытого контейнера. Таким образом, микроволновые двигатели могут быть установлены на спутниках и получать питание от солнечных батарей. Новые спутники могут стать в два раза меньше, так как отпадает необходимость транспортировки большого количества топлива.
Двигатель мощностью 720mN, или 72G, был построен Китаем. Хотя это считается низкой мощностью, ее вполне достаточно для запуска спутника в космос.
NASA провела собственное тестирование микроволнового двигателя. Результаты были представлены 30 июля 2014 года на 50-й конференции Joint Propulsion Conference.
Результаты исследований показывают, что отправление в космос возможно без топлива.  Уже скоро дальние космические путешествия могут стать реальностью.
В Умору!
И бесы веруют... И - трепещут!

Искандер

Evaluating NASA's Futuristic EM Drive
ЦитатаA group at NASA's Johnson Space Center has successfully tested an electromagnetic (EM) propulsion drive in a vacuum - a major breakthrough for a multi-year international effort comprising several competing research teams. Thrust measurements of the EM Drive defy classical physics' expectations that such a closed (microwave) cavity should be unusable for space propulsion because of the law of conservation of momentum.
ЦитатаEM Drive:
Last summer, NASA Eagleworks - an advanced propulsion research group led by Dr. Harold "Sonny" White at the Johnson Space Center (JSC) - made waves throughout the scientific and technical communities when the group presented their test results on July 28-30, 2014, at the 50th AIAA/ASME/SAE/ASEE Joint Propulsion Conference in Cleveland, Ohio.
Those results related to experimental testing of an EM Drive - a concept that originated around 2001 when a small UK company, Satellite Propulsion Research Ltd (SPR), under Roger J. Shawyer, started a Research and Development (R&D) program.
The concept of an EM Drive as put forth by SPR was that electromagnetic microwave cavities might provide for the direct conversion of electrical energy to thrust without the need to expel any propellant.
This lack of expulsion of propellant fr om the drive was met with initial skepticism within the scientific community because this lack of propellant expulsion would leave nothing to balance the change in the spacecraft's momentum if it were able to accelerate.
However, in 2010, Prof. Juan Yang in China began publishing about her research into EM Drive technology, culminating in her 2012 paper reporting higher input power (2.5kW) and tested thrust (720mN) levels of an EM Drive.
In 2014, Prof. Yang's papers reported extensive tests involving internal temperature measurements with embedded thermocouples.
It was reported (in SPR Ltd.'s website) that if the Chinese EM Drive were to be installed in the International Space Station (ISS) and work as reported, it could provide the necessary delta-V (change in velocity needed to perform an on-orbit maneuver) to compensate for the Station's orbital decay and thus eliminate the requirement of re-boosts fr om visiting vehicles.  Despite these reports, Prof. Yang offered no scientifically-accepted explanation as to how the EM Drive can produce propulsion in space.
Dr. White proposed that the EM Drive's thrust was due to the Quantum Vacuum (the quantum state with the lowest possible energy) behaving like propellant ions behave in a MagnetoHydroDynamics drive (a method electrifying propellant and then directing it with magnetic fields to push a spacecraft in the opposite direction) for spacecraft propulsion.
In Dr. White's model, the propellant ions of the MagnetoHydroDynamics drive are replaced as the fuel source by the virtual particles of the Quantum Vacuum, eliminating the need to carry propellant.
This model was also met with criticism in the scientific community because the Quantum Vacuum cannot be ionized and is understood to be "frame-less" - meaning you cannot "push" against it, as required for momentum.
The tests reported by Dr. White's team in July 2014 were not conducted in a vacuum, and none of the tests reported by Prof. Yang in China or Mr. Shawyer in the UK were conducted in a vacuum either.
The scientific community met these NASA tests with skepticism and a number of physicists proposed that the measured thrust force in the US, UK, and China tests was more likely due to (external to the EM Drive cavity) natural thermal convection currents arising fr om microwave heating (internal to the EM Drive cavity).
However, Paul March, an engineer at NASA Eagleworks, recently reported in NASASpaceFlight.com's forum (on a thread now over 500,000 views) that NASA has successfully tested their EM Drive in a hard vacuum - the first time any organization has reported such a successful test.
To this end, NASA Eagleworks has now nullified the prevailing hypothesis that thrust measurements were due to thermal convection.
A community of enthusiasts, engineers, and scientists on several continents joined forces on the NASASpaceflight.com EM Drive forumto thoroughly examine the experiments and discuss theories of operation of the EM Drive.
The quality of forum discussions attracted the attention of EagleWorks team member Paul March at NASA, who has shared testing and background information with the group in order to fill in information gaps and further the dialogue.
This synergy between NASASpaceflight.com contributors and NASA has resulted in several contributions to the body of knowledge about the EM Drive.
The NASASpaceflight.com group has given consideration to whether the experimental measurements of thrust force were the result of an artifact. Despite considerable effort within the NASASpaceflight.com forum to dismiss the reported thrust as an artifact, the EM Drive results have yet to be falsified.
After consistent reports of thrust measurements from EM Drive experiments in the US, UK, and China - at thrust levels several thousand times in excess of a photon rocket, and now under hard vacuum conditions - the question of wh ere the thrust is coming from deserves serious inquiry.

ЦитатаApplications:
The applications of such a propulsion drive are multi-fold, ranging from low Earth orbit (LEO) operations, to transit missions to the MoonMars, and the outer solar system, to multi-generation spaceships for interstellar travel.
Under these application considerations, the closest-to-home potential use of EM Drive technology would be for LEO space stations - such as the International Space Station.
In terms of the Station, propellant-less propulsion could amount to significant savings by drastically reducing fuel resupply missions to the Station and eliminate the need for visiting-vehicle re-boost maneuvers.
The elimination of these currently necessary re-boost maneuvers would potentially reduce stress on the Station's structure and allow for a pro-longed operational period for the ISS and future LEO space stations.
Likewise, EM drive technology could also be applied to geostationary orbit (GEO) satellites around Earth.
For a typical geostationary communications satellite with a 6kW (kilowatt) solar power capacity, replacing the conventional apogee engine, attitude thrusters, and propellant volume with an EM Drive would result in a reduction of the launch mass from 3 tons to 1.3 tons.
The satellite would be launched into LEO, wh ere its solar arrays and antennas would be deployed. The EM-drive would then propel the satellite in a spiral trajectory up to GEO in 36 days.
Moving out from LEO, Mr. March, from NASA EagleWorks, noted that a spacecraft equipped with EM drive technology could surpass the performance expectations of the WarpStar-I concept vehicle.
If such a similar vehicle were equipped with an EM Drive, it could enable travel from the surface of Earth to the surface of the moon within four hours.
Such a vehicle would be capable of carrying two to six passengers and luggage and would be able to return to Earth in the same four-hour interval using one load of hydrogen and oxygen for fuel cell-derived electrical power, assuming a 500 to 1,000 Newton/kW efficiency EM Drive system.
While the current maximum reported efficiency is close to only 1 Newton/kW (Prof. Yang's experiments in China), Mr. March noted that such an increase in efficiency is most likely achievable within the next 50 years provided that current EM Drive propulsion conjectures are close to accurate.
Far more ambitious applications for the EM Drive were presented by Dr. White and include crewed missions to Mars as well as to the outer planets.
Specifically, these two proposed missions (to Mars and the outer planets) would use a 2 MegaWatt Nuclear Electric Propulsion spacecraft equipped with an EM Drive with a thrust/powerInput of 0.4 Newton/kW.
With this design, a mission to Mars would result in a 70-day transit from Earth to the red planet, a 90-day stay at Mars, and then another 70-day return transit to Earth.
See Also
According to Dr. White, "A 90 metric ton, 2 MegaWatt nuclear electric propulsion mission to Mars [would have] considerable reduction in transit times due to having a thrust-to-mass ratio greater than the gravitational acceleration of the Sun (0.6 milli-g's at 1 Astronomical Unit)."
Furthermore, this type of mission would have the added benefit of requiring only a "single heavy lift launch vehicle" as compared to "a current conjunction-class Mars mission using chemical propulsion systems, which would require multiple heavy lift launch vehicles."
Presenting at the "Human Outer Solar System Exploration via Q-Thruster Technology" panel at IEEE, 2014, Mr. Joosten and Dr. White explained that "only 12 days would be utilized spiraling up from a 400 km low Earth orbit to achieve escape velocity and only 5 days spiraling down to a 400 km low Mars orbit."
While these spiral trajectories around Earth would have to be carefully designed to avoid or minimize time in the most problematic regions of the Van Allen radiation belts that could expose crewmembers to undesirable levels of radiation, Mr. Joosten and Dr. White note that "These relatively rapid transits would argue for mission strategies wh ere the 'Q-Ship' (EM Drive ship) operates between the lowest orbits possible to minimize the launch requirements of crew and supplies from Earth and lander complexity at Mars."
Moreover, this type of EM Drive-enabled mission could negate the need to bring along, for the duration of the mission, a high-speed reentry vehicle to return a Mars crew back to the Earth's surface because "By quickly spiraling into Earth orbit at the end of the mission, the crew could readily be retrieved via a 'ground-up' launch.
"While the fast Mars transits that Q-Thruster technology [EM drive] could enable would be revolutionary, the independence from the limitations of departure and arrival windows may ultimately be more so," added Mr. Joosten and Dr. White.
This means that an EM drive ship mission could be designed without consideration of the every-two-year interplanetary conjunction launch windows that currently govern Earth-Mars transit missions and could help stabilize and provide more routine Mars crew rotation timetables.
This same elimination of inter-planetary conjunction-enabled launch windows would be applied to crewed missions to the outer planets as well.
For such a mission, such as a crewed flight to the outer planets - specifically, a Titan/Enceladus mission at Saturn - an EM Drive would allow for a 9-month transit period from Earth to Saturn, a 6-month in-situ mission at Titan, another 6-month in-situ mission at Enceladus, and a 9-month return trip to Earth. This would result in a total mission duration of just 32 months.
However, EM drive applications are not limited to Mars or outer solar system targets.
Applications of this technology in deep space missions have already received conceptual outlines.
In particular, the Alpha Centauri system, the closest star system to our solar system at just 4.3 lights year's distance, received specific mention as a potential mission destination.
Mr. Joosten and Dr. White stated that "a one-way, non-decelerating trip to Alpha Centauri under a constant one milli-g acceleration" from an EM drive would result in an arrival speed of 9.4 percent the speed of light and result in a total transit time from Earth to Alpha Centauri of just 92 years.
However, if the intentions of such a mission were to perform in-situ observations and experiments in the Alpha Centauri system, then deceleration would be needed.
This added component would result in a 130-year transit time from Earth to Alpha Centauri - which is still a significant improvement over the multi-thousand year timetable such a mission would take using current chemical propulsion technology.
The speeds discussed in the Alpha Centauri mission proposal are sufficiently low that relativity effects are negligible.

Это прорыв. 
Время покажет насколько технология реализуема, но возможность избавится от рабочего тела при межпланетных перелётах вдохновляет.
Aures habent et non audient, oculos habent et non videbunt

Антон

30.04.2015 22:31:42 #6 Последнее редактирование: 01.05.2015 11:43:58 от Антон
ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
Это прорыв.
Время покажет насколько технология реализуема, но возможность избавится от рабочего тела при межпланетных перелётах вдохновляет.
А чем банальный лазер плох? Пионеры вон на ИК излучении разгонялись.
Да и солнечный парус уже давно используется

Искандер

01.05.2015 09:48:57 #7 Последнее редактирование: 01.05.2015 09:51:43 от Искандер
ЦитатаАнтон пишет:
А чем банальный лазер плох? Пионеры вон на ИК излучении разгонялись.
Да и солнечный парус уже давно используется
А как Вы думаете? Вы внимательно прочитали? )))
Сравните тягу с существующими двигателями, например с йонным, прикиньте эффективность.
Aures habent et non audient, oculos habent et non videbunt

Salo

ЦитатаАнтон пишет:
А всю простыню цитировать было обязательно? Поправьте свой пост пожалуйста.
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Apollo13

Это американская гравицапа?

Искандер

ЦитатаApollo13 пишет:
Это американская гравицапа?
Исследования ведутся в USA, UK и Китае.
Aures habent et non audient, oculos habent et non videbunt

N.A.

ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
Evaluating NASA's Futuristic EM Drive
ЦитатаA group at NASA's Johnson Space Center has successfully tested an electromagnetic (EM) propulsion drive in a vacuum - a major breakthrough
Это прорыв.
Время покажет насколько технология реализуема, но возможность избавится от рабочего тела при межпланетных перелётах вдохновляет.

Да, ладно. Так-таки сразу и "прорыв".

Пока - просто интрига: при исследовании конструкции очередного "вечного двигателя" пока не смогли обнаружить "скрытую электропроводку".

vl mich

02.05.2015 21:00:22 #12 Последнее редактирование: 02.05.2015 18:02:05 от vl mich
ЦитатаАнтон пишет:
ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
Это прорыв.
Время покажет насколько технология реализуема, но возможность избавится от рабочего тела при межпланетных перелётах вдохновляет.
А чем банальный лазер плох? Пионеры вон на ИК излучении разгонялись.
Да и солнечный парус уже давно используется
им нравится нарушать законы физики, им не запретишь
Менхаузен же тянул себя на волосы из болота и эм драйф тянет, это нормально к этому надо привыкнуть это же прорыв в дальний космос

Искандер

02.05.2015 19:10:19 #13 Последнее редактирование: 02.05.2015 19:12:08 от Искандер
Очень смешно.
Ничего фантастического там нет.
Я не физик, но то что я помню, читал, когда то лет надцат назад подсказывает мне что объяснение лежит в области природы энергии и материи, двойственной природы ЭМ излучения с одной стороны и элементарных частиц движущихся с релятивисткими скоростями. Ну, а природа вакуума до сих пор не изучена, там много интересных теорий.
Aures habent et non audient, oculos habent et non videbunt

Apollo13

ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
ЦитатаApollo13 пишет:
Это американская гравицапа?
Исследования ведутся в USA, UK и Китае.
О еще и британские ученые подключились. :)

vl mich

02.05.2015 23:06:47 #15 Последнее редактирование: 02.05.2015 20:07:11 от vl mich
ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
двойственной природы ЭМ излучения с одной стороны и элементарных частиц движущихся с релятивисткими скоростями
в чем двойственость ЭМ излучения и элементарных частиц?
эм драйф использует не изученые теории вакуума?

Astro Cat

02.05.2015 19:21:26 #16 Последнее редактирование: 02.05.2015 20:28:21 от Astro Cat
Я так понимаю это фотонный двигатель на уровне микроволнового излучения?

Это действительно официальный сайт NASA?

N.A.

ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
Очень смешно.
Ничего фантастического там нет.
Ага, всего-навсего уравнения Максвелла и/или третий закон Ньютона оказывается не работают, а в остальном все классно.

ЦитатаИскандер пишет:
Я не физик, но то что я помню, читал, когда то лет надцат назад подсказывает мне что объяснение лежит в области природы энергии и материи, двойственной природы ЭМ излучения с одной стороны и элементарных частиц движущихся с релятивисткими скоростями. Ну, а природа вакуума до сих пор не изучена, там много интересных теорий.

ЦитатаВсякое  открытие терзает меня как гвоздик  в спине. Хотя я  невежда и  старосветский помещик,  а все  же  таки негодник  старый занимаюсь наукой и  открытиями, которые собственными руками произвожу  и  наполняю свою нелепую головешку,  свой дикий  череп мыслями  и комплектом  величайших  знаний. Матушка  природа  есть  книга,  которую надо читать и  видеть.

Alexandr_A

ЦитатаЭто прорыв.
.....

ЦитатаНичего фантастического там нет.......

ЦитатаЯ не физик......

Искандер

ЦитатаAlexandr_A пишет:
ЦитатаЭто прорыв.
.....
ЦитатаНичего фантастического там нет.......
ЦитатаЯ не физик......
Вы что-то хотели сказать? ))
Aures habent et non audient, oculos habent et non videbunt