РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)

Автор Петр Зайцев, 11.08.2009 16:17:18

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Apollo13

Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
А толк от безосовского двигателя без готовности всего вулкана? Аэроджет же намекает, что как только сделают двигатель, то в атлас его вставить быстро
Как быстро ставить новый двигатель хорошо видно на примере Антареса. Если AR-1 будет готов в 2019 все равно понадобится еще 1-2 года на переделку Атласа. ULA не будет вкладывать большие деньги в новую ракету до тех пор пока не будет полностью готов и протестирован двигатель. Они хотят быть уверены что двигатель надежен.

silentpom

AJ как раз и показывает антарес как пример :)
и все же переделку ракеты можно начать раньше финальной готовности двигателя

Salo

#322
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/10/suddenly-spacex-is-the-only-game-in-town.aspx?source=eptfxblnk0000004#.VmoWjWTRsmo.facebook
ЦитироватьSuddenly, SpaceX Is the Only Game in Town With tens of billions of dollars up for grabs, ULA is suddenly AWOL.

REP. Mike Rogers, CHAIRING THE U.S. HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES HEARING in March, explaining why the U.S. needs price competition on satellite launches. But now we won't get it. IMAGE source: YOUTUBE STILL.
Turns out Tory Bruno wasn't just whistling Dixie.
At a hearing before the U.S. House Armed Services Committee in March, United Launch Alliance CEO Salvatore "Tory" Bruno issued an ultimatum: Congress must either lift its ban on the purchase of new RD-180 Russian rocket motors for use in America's space program or resign itself to letting one single space provider dictate prices to the government on all future satellite launches.
Turns out, it's going to be Door No. 2.
Спойлер
A bit of history
 
Mind you, this is a situation that Congress has endured for years. Historically, Bruno's own company, ULA, a joint venture between Boeing (NYSE:BA) and Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT), was the only entity certified to send America's most sensitive military satellites into space. As such, ULA could basically name its own price for conducting those missions.
Congress got a chance to fix that when, earlier this year, first NASA then the U.S. Air Force certified ULA rival SpaceX to launch these same kinds of payloads into orbit. But no sooner had Congress introduced price competition into the market than it made such competition impossible.
In October, the Pentagon refused a ULA request to waive its ban on Russian RD-180 rocket motors. One month later, ULA confirmed in November that because of this ban, ULA was unable to bid on the Pentagon's new "GPS III Launch Services" contract.
ULA's Lockheed Martin-built Atlas V rocket, you see, could conceivably have been used in a bid on GPS III. But Atlas relies on RD-180 motors to power it into space. ULA's other big rocket, the Boeing-built Delta IV, doesn't use RD-180s, but it costs too much to use on GPS III.

The Air Force's new GPS III satellite. Lockheed will get to build it -- they just won't get to launch it. Image source: Lockheed Martin.

What it means to ULA
 
As a result, ULA has declared itself effectively shut out of the military satellite launch market -- a "multiyear" exile that will last until either (a) Congress lifts the RD-180 ban, or (b) ULA succeeds in developing a new rocket to replace RD-180.
With option A looking increasingly unlikely, ULA is now hard at work on option B. In September, the company announced plans to move ahead with production of its first choice to replace the Russian rocket motor, Blue Origin's BE-4 methane-and-liquid-oxygen-fueled engine. If all goes well, BE-4 could be ready to "qualify" for flight as early as 2017. Years of tests will still be needed after that, so best case, it looks like ULA will cede the military satellite market to SpaceX until at least 2019.
And that's if everything goes right. If BE-4 turns out to be a dud, ULA must turn to its second choice, the AR1 rocket currently under development by Aerojet Rocketdyne. That one's more than a year behind BE-4 in development, though. Choosing AR1, therefore, could keep ULA out of this important market through 2020.

What it means to SpaceX
 
Meanwhile, as ULA sits on the bench, SpaceX will be making out like a bandit -- and making major bank as it wins contract after contract, uncontested.
How much could SpaceX earn while ULA cools its heels? The U.S. Government Accountability Office estimates the value of U.S. military satellite work at roughly $70 billion over the next 15 years. Unless something significant changes, and changes soon, SpaceX should be able to claim one-third of that loot for itself, unopposed -- and then proceed to bid competitively on the final two-thirds. So how much could SpaceX win for itself, ultimately?
It all depends on how altruistic Elon Musk is feeling, and whether he chooses to take as full advantage of his newfound space launch monopoly as ULA did when ULA was top of the heap. But billions for sure -- and tens or twenties of billions are not at all out of the question.
In short, the future is looking very bright indeed for SpaceX. I only wish we could own it.

 SpaceX's future's so bright, it's gotta wear shades -- even at night! Image source: 
SpaceX.
Rich Smith
 does not own shares of, nor is he short, any company named above. You can find him on Motley Fool CAPS, publicly pontificating under the handle TMFDitty, where he's currently ranked No. 318 out of more than 75,000 rated members.

The Motley Fool has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. Try any of our Foolish newsletter services free for 30 days. We Fools may not all hold the same opinions, but we all believe that considering a diverse range of insights makes us better investors. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy.
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"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Salo

http://spacenews.com/like-it-or-not-congress-will-have-to-revisit-rd-180-ban/
[
ЦитироватьSIZE=6]Like It or Not, Congress Will Have To Revisit RD-180 Ban[/SIZE]
by SpaceNews Editor — December 14, 2015
 
United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket is powered by the Russian RD-180 engine. Credit: ULA  

 
Editorial
There were several defining themes in 2015, but none matched the drama and intrigue surrounding United Launch Alliance, the Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture that once monopolized the U.S. government launch market but now finds itself in a potentially suffocating squeeze between a competitive challenge from upstart SpaceX and a congressional ban on the Russian-made engine that powers its most versatile and economical rocket.
Спойлер
The latest act took place in mid-November, when ULA announced it did not bid on a GPS 3 satellite launching contract, effectively ceding what was to be the U.S. Air Force's first competitively awarded launch in more than a decade to its arch nemesis.
The attention-grabbing move was not a huge sacrifice given that ULA would have been hard pressed to win the contract under any circumstances; it cannot match SpaceX's prices, and GPS launches fit well within the envelope of the latter's Falcon 9 rocket. It was a tactical withdrawal by a company with a bigger prize in mind: a competitive playing field that's more to its liking, most significantly including relief from the Russian engine ban that threatens to sideline its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket.
Currently ULA has only four RD-180 engines available for the competitive phase of the Air Force's satellite launching program, which is only a fraction of what the company needs to stay in the game over the long term. ULA has designed a new rocket dubbed Vulcan that features a U.S.-made engine, but this vehicle will not be available until around 2021, assuming the project gets funded — which is by no means a given.
Explaining its no-bid decision in a press statement, ULA cited the engine ban and a procurement structure that it said was tilted in favor of SpaceX.
As a rationale, the engine ban was valid only by virtue of ULA's puzzling decision, cited when the company threatened not to bid for the contract back in early October, to allocate five RD-180s that previously were deemed exempt from the ban to nonmilitary missions. The ban does not extend to civil and commercial missions.
 
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) accused ULA of seeking to "manufacture a crisis by prematurely diminishing its stockpile of engines" available for military competitions. Credit: U.S. Army Chief of Staff

Moreover, by mid-November it had become clear that Congress would pass defense authorization legislation making four additional engines available for competition. That bill was finalized Nov. 10, presented to the president a week later and signed into law Nov. 25.
Another issue cited by ULA was a requirement that it certify that none of its existing Air Force business could be leveraged to support its bid. ULA said it did not have the accounting system in place to comply with that requirement, and that modifying its system accordingly would have thrown it out of compliance with its existing Air Force contracts.
Whatever the merit of that argument, it's noteworthy that it emerged only after the bidding had closed. In previously threatening not to bid, ULA focused on the engine ban. Moreover, federal procurements tend to be an iterative process involving a lot of back and forth between buyer and bidder. Did ULA not raise this issue during that process? Were its concerns ignored?
ULA's other complaint might best explain its no-bid decision, although it doesn't necessarily flag a deficiency in the Air Force's process. The procurement's so-called lowest-cost technically acceptable structure, ULA said, shortchanges other factors such as reliability, past performance and schedule certainty. In other words, it effectively neutralizes ULA's competitive strengths.
Whether future competitive launch procurements should be structured this way might depend on the mission. While GPS provides absolutely critical military and civilian capabilities, the constellation is very robust, meaning the Air Force can take on a bit more risk with a single GPS satellite than it might with a billion-dollar intelligence or missile warning satellite.
One lawmaker who's not buying ULA's explanation is Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a longtime company critic who, as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saw to it that the latest defense bill provides only very limited relief from the RD-180 ban. In a letter to colleagues on the Senate Appropriations Committee, who are considering providing broader relief in an omnibus spending bill for 2016, Mr. McCain accused ULA of seeking to "manufacture a crisis by prematurely diminishing its stockpile of engines" available for military competitions.
In a subsequent letter to U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, Mr. McCain reiterated that concern and disputed, with strong supporting arguments, each of ULA's stated reasons for not bidding. Appropriately, Mr. McCain demanded that ULA's maneuvers be subjected to rigorous Defense Department scrutiny.
It is of course for ULA to decide whether it bids for any given contract, although as Mr. McCain implied, the government isn't paying the company nearly $1 billion for overhead costs each year — the senator branded it a subsidy — to have it sit out competitions. Mr. McCain also has a point, based on Senate protocol, in appealing to appropriators not to undo the terms of the engine ban crafted by his committee.
But the hard truth is that if ULA is to remain competitive in the U.S. government launch market — and policymakers in Washington are firm on the requirement to have at least two providers — it is going to need more Russian engines than currently available, whether or not a U.S. alternative is ready to fly by the end of the decade. How many more is not clear, but four — or even nine, should ULA find a way to reallocate the five exempted engines to the military market — is not sufficient. To their credit, senior members of the Senate Appropriations Committee are asking the Pentagon for clarity on that matter. But as much as Mr. McCain wants to avoid "year-over-year re-litigation" of the issue, his position, however principled, is most likely going to make that necessary.
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"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Salo

Цитировать Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno  11 дек.  
Working some cool tech on long storage of cryo and on orbit refueling. Here's an InfoG on one of the test beds.  
 
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Apollo13

http://spacenews.com/spending-bill-lifts-rd-180-ban-puts-ula-back-in-competitive-game/

ЦитироватьSpending Bill Lifts RD-180 Ban, Puts ULA Back in Competitive Gameby Mike Gruss — December 16, 2015

The RD-180, shown above in a test firing, is the main engine on ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket. Credit: NASA



WASHINGTON – A massive U.S. government spending bill, released by lawmakers Dec. 16, effectively ends a ban on the Russian rocket engine that powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket and re-energizes competition for Defense Department launch contracts between ULA and SpaceX.
The new language, included in the omnibus spending bill for 2016, says "that notwithstanding any other provision of law" the Air Force could award a launch contract to any certified company "regardless of the country of origin of the rocket engine that will be used on its launch vehicle, in order to ensure robust competition and continued assured access to space."
The Russian-built RD-180 engine powers ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which is used to launch a majority of national security satellites. The Atlas 5 is considered the only competitor to SpaceX's Falcon 9 for nine upcoming military launches.
Congress banned future use of Russian engines for U.S. national security launches in the National Defense Authorization Act for 2015 as a response to Russia's 2014 incursion into neighboring Ukraine. Lawmakers, the Air Force and ULA have been debating the specific terms of the ban ever since.
The language in the 2016 spending bill comes about one month after Denver-based ULA said it declined to bid for the right to launch a GPS 3 satellite in 2018, effectively ceding the contract to SpaceX. ULA cited multiple reasons for not bidding, the engine ban among them.
The recently National Defense Authorization Act for 2016 provided limited relief from the ban, giving ULA access to four more engines for upcoming Air Force competitions, this after the company said five previously exempted engines were assigned to nonmilitary missions.
But with appropriations bill still in play, the office of Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), indicated it was considering lifting the ban in that legislation.
ULA builds the Atlas 5 in Decatur, Alabama.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a frequent ULA critic, urged his Appropriations Committee colleagues to adhere to the 2016 NDAA, but to no avail.
The 2016 spending bill also provides $227 million to accelerate development of an American replacement for the RD-180. That's about $143 million more than the White House's budget request, according to a summary of Defense Department spending in the bill.
The engine development effort has a $220 million budget for 2015, but the Air Force requested only $84 million for 2016.
Congress mandated last year that the Defense Department develop a domestic engine that would be ready to fly by 2019.


Кажется запрет на РД-180 снят.

Salo

#326
А баба-яга Маккейн против:
http://spacenews.com/full-text-mccain-blasts-appropriators-for-lifting-rd-180-ban/
ЦитироватьFull Text | McCain Blasts Appropriators for Lifting RD-180 Ban
by Mike Gruss — December 16, 2015
 
"Here we stand with a 2000-page omnibus appropriations bill, crafted in secret with no debate, which most of us are seeing for the first time this morning" Sen. John McCain said in a Dec. 16 floor speech. "And buried within it is a policy provision that would effectively allow unlimited purchases and use of Russian rocket engines. What is going on here?"
 
Спойлер
U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took to the Senate floor Dec. 16  to blast the Senate Appropriations Committee for eliminating  restrictions Congress imposed last year on the Pentagon's use of Russian-built RD-180 rocket engines.
United Launch Alliance, whose workhorse Atlas 5 rocket is powered by the RD-180, cited the ban among its reasons for not bidding last month on a contract to launch a GPS-3 satellite for the U.S. Air Force.
McCain, who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the RD-180 provisions appropriators included in a must-pass omnibus spending bill released overnight violates Senate protocol and represents "a direct dismembering" of the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act, which provided more-limited relief from the RD-180 ban.
Below are his prepared remarks:
I rise to call attention to the triumph of pork barrel parochialism in this year's Omnibus Appropriations Bill—in particular, a policy provision that was airdropped into this bill, in direct contravention to the National Defense Authorization Act, which will have U.S. taxpayers subsidize Russian aggression and "comrade capitalism."
Nearly two years ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin, furious that the Ukrainian people had ousted a pro-Moscow stooge, invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. It was the first time since the days of Hitler and Stalin that brute force had been projected across an internationally-recognized border to dismember a sovereign state on the European continent. More than 8,000 people have died in this conflict, including 298 innocent people aboard Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, who were murdered by Vladimir Putin's loyal supporters with weapons he supplied them.
Putin's imperialist campaign in Eastern Europe forced a recognition, for anyone who was not yet convinced, that we are confronting a challenge that many had assumed was resigned to the history books: a strong, militarily-capable Russian government that is hostile to our interests and our values, and seeks to challenge the international order that American leaders of both parties have sought to maintain since the end of World War II.
That's why the Congress imposed tough sanctions against Russia, especially against Putin's cronies and their enormous, and enormously corrupt, business empire. As part of that effort, Congress passed the Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which restricted the Air Force from using Russian-made RD-180 rocket engines for national security space launches — engines that are manufactured by a Russian company controlled by some of Putin's top cronies. We did so not only because our nation should not rely on Russia to access space, but because it is simply immoral to help subsidize Russia's intervention in Ukraine and line the pockets of Putin's gang of thugs who profit from the sale of Russian rocket engines.
Last year's NDAA exempted the five of engines United Launch Alliance (ULA) purchased before the invasion of Ukraine. This allowed ULA, the space launch company that for years has enjoyed a monopoly on launching military satellites, to use those Russian rocket engines if the Secretary of Defense determined it was necessitated by national security.
Since the passage of the FY15 NDAA in the Senate, 89 to 11, Russia has continued to destabilize Ukraine and menace our NATO allies in Europe with aggressive military behavior. Putin has sent advanced weapons to Iran and violated the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Force Treaty. Now, in a profound echo of the Cold War, Russia has intervened militarily in Syria on behalf of the murderous regime of Bashar al-Assad. Clearly, Russian behavior has only gotten worse.
That is why, just a few weeks ago, Congress acted again, and passed the Fiscal Year 2016 National Defense Authorization Act. The NDAA authorized $300 million dollars in security assistance and intelligence support for Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. At the same time, the bill recognized that a small number of Russian engines could be needed to maintain competition in the national security space launch program and facilitate a smooth transition to rockets with U.S. made engines. Therefore the legislation allowed ULA to use a total of nine Russian engines.
The FY16 NDAA, including its provision limiting the use of Russian rocket engines, was debated for months. The Committee on Armed Services had a vigorous debate over this important issue. An amendment was offered to maintain the restriction on the Air Force's use of Russian rocket engines, and in a positive vote of the Committee, the amendment was adopted. We then considered hundreds of amendments to this defense authorization bill on the Senate floor over a period of two weeks, and did so transparently and with an open amendment process that was a credit to the Majority Leader. There was not one amendment called up to change the provision of the NDAA concerning RD-180 rocket engines. The legislation passed with 71 votes. Then, because of a misguided presidential veto, this defense legislation was actually considered a second time on the floor of the Senate, and this time it passed 91 to 3.
Here is my point: The Senate had this debate. We had ample time and opportunity to have this debate. And through months of this fulsome debate, no Senator came to the Senate floor to make the case that we need to buy more Russian rocket engines. No Senator introduced an amendment on the floor to lift the restriction on buying more Russian rocket engines. To the contrary, the Senate and the full Congress voted, overwhelmingly and repeatedly, to maintain this restriction. This is a policy issue, and it was resolved, as it should be, on the defense policy bill.
And yet, here we stand with a 2000-page omnibus appropriations bill, crafted in secret with no debate, which most of us are seeing for the first time this morning. And buried within it is a policy provision that would effectively allow unlimited purchases and use of Russian rocket engines.
What is going on here?
ULA wants more Russian engines. Plain and simple. That's why ULA recently asked the Defense Department to waive the NDAA's restriction on the basis of national security and let it use a Russian engine for the first competitive national security space launch. The Defense Department declined.
So, what did ULA do when it didn't get its way? It manufactured a crisis. Though the Department of Defense is restricted in using these Russian rocket engines, there is no similar restriction on NASA or commercial space launches. So ULA rushed to assign the RD-180s that it had in its inventory to these non-national security launches, despite the fact that there is no restriction on the use of Russian engines for those launches. This artificial crisis has now been seized on by ULA's Capitol Hill leading sponsors, namely the senior Senator from Alabama, Senator Shelby, and the senior Senator from Illinois, Senator Durbin, to overturn the NDAA's restriction.
And that is exactly what they've done—again, secretly, non-transparently, as part of this massive Omnibus Appropriations bill. As I said, neither Senator Shelby nor Senator Durbin, nor any other Senator, raised objections to the provisions of the NDAA or offered any alternatives during the authorization process on the Senate floor.
In fact, as I have said, when this issue was debated and voted on in the Committee on Armed Services, the authorizing committee of jurisdiction voted in favor of maintaining the restriction. Instead, my colleagues on the Appropriations Committee crafted a provision in secret with no debate to overturn the will of the Senate as expressed in two National Defense Authorization Acts. And the result will enable a monopolistic corporation to send potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to Vladimir Putin and his corrupt cronies and deepen America's reliance on these thugs for our military's access to space.
This is outrageous. And it is shameful. And it is the height of hypocrisy, especially for my colleagues who claim to care about the plight of Ukraine and the need to punish Russia for its aggression. How can our government tell European governments that they need to hold the line on maintaining sanctions on Russia, which is far harder for them to do than us, when we are gutting our own policy in this way? How can we tell our French allies, in particular, that they should not sell Vladimir Putin amphibious assault ships, as we have, and then turn around and try to buy rocket engines from Putin's cronies? Again, this is the height of hypocrisy.
Since March 2014, my colleagues and I in the in Senate have tried to do everything we can to give our friends in Ukraine the tools they need to defend themselves and their country from Russian aggression. Rather than furthering that noble cause, Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin have chosen to reward Vladimir Putin and his cronies with a windfall of hundreds of millions of dollars. A rocket factory in Alabama may benefit from this provision. Boeing, headquartered in Illinois, may benefit from this decision. But have no doubt, the real winners today are Vladimir Putin and his gang of thugs running the Russian military-industrial complex.
I wish that Senators Shelby and Durbin would explain to the American taxpayer exactly who we are doing business with. They won't. But my colleagues need to know. So let me explain.
At least one news organization has investigated how much the Air Force pays for these RD-180 rocket engines, how much the Russians receive, and whether members of the elite in Putin's Russia have secretly profited by inflating the price. In an investigative series entitled, "Comrade Capitalism", Reuters exposed the role that senior Russian politicians and Putin's close friends, including persons sanctioned over Ukraine, have played in a company called NPO Energomash, which manufactures the RD-180. According to Reuters, a Russian audit of that company found that it had been operating at a loss because funds were "being captured by unnamed offshore intermediary companies."
In addition, the Reuters investigation also reported that NPO Energomash sells its rocket engines to ULA through another company called RD Amross, a tiny five-person outfit that stood to collect about $93 million in cost mark-ups under a multiyear deal to supply these engines. The Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) found that in one contract alone, RD Amross did "no or negligible" work but still collected $80 million in "unallowable excessive pass-through charges."
According to University of Baltimore School of Law Professor Charles Tiefer, who reviewed Reuters' documents, "The bottom line is that the joint venture between the Russians and Americans is taking us to the cleaners." He said that he had reviewed Pentagon audits critical of Iraq War contracts, but those "didn't come anywhere near to how strongly negative" the RD Amross audit was.
We must do better than this, and we can.
Now some may say we need to buy rocket engines from Putin's cronies in Russia. In particular, they will cite a letter from the Department of Defense in response to a list of leading questions form the Appropriations Committee just a few days ago, which they will claim as confirmation that the Department believes that the United States will not have a domestically-manufactured replacement engine for defense space launches before 2022.
Nonsense. When the Department of Defense starts making predictions beyond its five-year budget plan, what I hear is, "this isn't a priority". Or, "we don't really know." Either way, this is unacceptable. Both the authorizers and the appropriators have ramped-up funding for the development of a new domestically-manufactured engine. The Pentagon needs to do what it has failed to do for eight years: Make this a priority. Indeed, American companies have already said that they could have a replacement engine ready before 2022. Our money and attention should be focused on meeting this goal, not subsidizing Putin's defense industry.
Proponents of more Russian rocket engines will also say cite claims by the Air Force that ULA needs a least 18 RD-180 engines to create a "bridge" between now and 2022 when a domestically-manufactured engine comes available.
This, too, is false.
Today, we have two space launch providers—ULA and SpaceX—that, no matter what happens with the Russian RD-180, will be able to provide fully redundant capabilities with ULA's Delta IV and SpaceX's Falcon 9, and eventually, the Falcon Heavy space launch vehicles. There will be no capability gap. The Atlas V is not going anywhere anytime soon. ULA has enough Atlas V's to get them through at least 2019, if not later.
And, as I alluded to a moment ago, the Pentagon agrees that no action is required today to address a risk to assured access to space. In declining ULA's recent request for a waiver from the NDAA's restrictions, the Deputy Secretary of Defense concluded that they "do not believe any immediate action is required to address the future risk of having only one source of space launch services." Indeed, in its recent letter, the Department of Defense even confirmed that ULA has enough engines to compete for each of the nine upcoming competitions and that the number they will pursue is "dependent upon ULA's business management strategy."
So to Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin, I would ask, what are your priorities?
As we speak, Ukrainians are resisting Russian aggression and fighting to keep their country whole and free. Yet this omnibus appropriations bill will send hundreds of millions of dollars to Vladimir Putin, his cronies, and Russia's military-industrial base as Russia continues to occupy Crimea and destabilize Ukraine. What kind of message does that send to Ukrainians who have been fighting and dying to protect their country?
How can we do this when Putin is menacing our NATO allies in Europe? How can we do this when Russia continues to send weapons to Iran? How can we do this when Putin continues to violate the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty? How can we do this when Putin is bombing U.S.-backed forces in Syria fighting the murderous Assad regime?
I understand that some constituents of Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin believe they would benefit from this provision. But as the New York Times editorial board stated earlier this year, "When sanctions are necessary, the countries that impose them must be willing to pay a cost, too. After leaning on France to cancel the sale of two ships to Russia because of the invasion of Ukraine, the United States can hardly insist on continuing to buy national security hardware from one of Mr. Putin's cronies." I repeat, that is the opinion of the New York Times.
On the record, I make this promise. If this language undermining the National Defense Authorization Act is not removed from the Omnibus, I assure my colleagues that this issue will not go unaddressed in the Fiscal Year 2017 National Defense Authorization Act. Up to this point, we have sought to manage this issue on an annual basis, and we have always maintained that, if a genuine crisis emerged, we would not compromise our national security interests in space. We have sought to be flexible and open to new information, but if this is how our efforts are repaid, then perhaps we need to look at a complete and indefinite restriction on Putin's rocket engines.
I take no pleasure in saying that. I believe that avoiding the year-over-year conflict over this matter between our authorizing and appropriations committees is in our nation's best interest. Such back-and-forth only delays our shared desire to end our reliance on Russian technology from our space launch supply chain, while injecting instability into our national security space launch program. That instability threatens the reliable launch of our most sensitive national security satellites and the stability of the fragile industrial base that supports them.
But, I simply cannot allow Senator Shelby, Senator Durbin, the Appropriations Committee, or any other member of this body to craft a take-it-or-leave-it omnibus spending bill that allows a monopolistic corporation to do business with Russian oligarchs to buy overpriced rocket engines that fund Russia's belligerence in Crimea and Ukraine, its support for Assad in Syria, and its neo-imperial ambitions.
I will not stand for that, and none of you should either.
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"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Виктор Левашов

этот орёл не ровён час дуба даст не сегодня - завтра, так пусть выговорится.

Salo

http://spacenews.com/op-ed-u-s-must-not-recklessly-restrict-use-of-rd-180-engine/
ЦитироватьOp-ed | U.S. Must Not Recklessly Restrict Use of RD-180 Engine
by Sen. Richard Shelby — December 16, 2015
 
A United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket, powered by the Russian RD-180 engine, launches a mission for the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office. Credit: ULA  
 
At the end of the Cold War, U.S. military and intelligence leaders encouraged American aerospace companies to buy Russian rocket engines so that Russia would not sell them to countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea. Based on those policies, Lockheed Martin put the Russian-made RD-180 engine on the Atlas 5 rocket in 1995. In that era, the use of Russian rocket engines was a priority, not a political concern.
Today, approximately two-thirds of our military, intelligence community, scientific and weather satellites are launched into orbit on the Atlas 5, which uses the Russian RD-180 rocket engine. United Launch Alliance, a joint venture of Lockheed and Boeing formed in 2006, has conducted more than 100 of these missions without a single failure, the vast majority with the Atlas 5.
Given the current volatility of our relationship with Russia, our nation needs to develop a reliable, American alternative to the RD-180 as soon as possible. Unfortunately, that may not be for another four to five years at best.
Congress has been debating whether we are willing to risk our military's ability to access space before we have a domestically produced engine that has the capabilities of the RD-180. Some have pushed highly restrictive legislative limits on importing the RD-180 — thus grounding the Atlas 5 that powers vital national security launches. I have heard directly fr om military leaders who say we will have a multiyear gap in access to space if we allow these provisions to take force. Given these concerns, it is far too risky to ban the use of the RD-180 before we have a reliable American alternative.
I'm the first one to argue that we should not be dependent upon any foreign power for access to space — especially in the national security arena. I have already worked to secure more than $300 million in funding for the development of an American-made rocket engine. However, recklessly restricting the use of the RD-180 in the near-term will undermine both national security and the prospects for real competition in the military launch business.
Let me be clear: I understand the legitimate congressional concerns regarding relying on the RD-180 for national security launches. That said, I believe that some in Congress have overreacted with ill-conceived legislation that would restrict the near-term use of these engines — ironically weakening our national security, according to Defense Secretary Ash Carter, Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and many officials working for them.
Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) pushed these restrictions in close coordination with SpaceX, which stands much to gain by eliminating competition. The SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket was recently certified for some of these launches by the Air Force, albeit under intense political pressure fr om the Obama administration. While SpaceX has launched several commercial payloads and has conducted six cargo flights to the International Space Station, it has suffered numerous delays and anomalies. Shortly after the Air Force's certification of the Falcon 9, a catastrophic failure in June led to the complete loss of both the vehicle and all of its taxpayer-funded cargo, thus grounding the vehicle. The company was already over two years late developing the Falcon 9 and now has a substantial backlog of its current launch schedule, which raises the question of what the launch priorities will be if it does resume flights.
To foster such a monopoly through misguided political decisions would be a matter of considerable concern relating to national security. SpaceX has yet to undertake any form of national security launch. Yet without changes to the restrictions pushed by Senator McCain, virtually all of America's military space missions will depend on SpaceX's grounded rocket and its problematic launch history while the highly dependable Atlas 5 will be unavailable due to political motivations and maneuvering.
Secretary Carter and Director Clapper recently told Congress that without the Atlas 5, "we could be faced with a multiyear gap wh ere we have neither assured access to space nor an environment wh ere price-based competition is possible." We simply could not and cannot allow this to happen.
Clearly, the United States needs to move as quickly as possible to develop, build and certify a safe and affordable alternative to the RD-180. Until then, I'm pleased that Congress has provided the policy guidance and legal flexibility to assure that our military has access to space, and that taxpayers can count on fair and healthy competition.
U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) is a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee.
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Salo

http://www.ulalaunch.com/news-press-details.aspx?id=295&title=United-Launch-Alliance-Concludes-Transformative-Year,-Looks-Ahead-to-10th-Anniversary
ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Concludes Transformative Year, Looks Ahead to 10th Anniversary

Centennial, Colo., (Dec. 18, 2015) – After another year with 100 percent mission success, the United Launch Alliance (ULA) team capped off the year with the launch of the OA-4 mission to the International Space Station (ISS) on Dec. 6 and prepares for its 10th anniversary and highest operations Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) tempo to date in 2016.  

"What an incredible year for ULA," said Tory Bruno, president and CEO of ULA. "I couldn't be prouder to be a part of the best launch team in the world. I am so thankful to all of our employees and industry partners for their commitment to get the job done. I am also grateful for the support from all our families as we continue to push boundaries and get ready for next year!"

In 2015, ULA flawlessly launched 12 missions from two coasts using the Delta II, Delta IV and Atlas V rockets in support of the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, National Reconnaissance Office, NASA and multiple commercial customers. The company also celebrated exciting milestones – reaching 100 launches with the Oct. 2 Morelos-3 mission and completing ULA's first mission to the ISS, both on Atlas V vehicles.

"These missions are so important for keeping our service members safe around the world, enhancing our GPS capabilities and enabling scientific research in space that will inspire the next generation of rocket scientists and astronauts," Bruno said.

ULA also announced two new initiatives in 2015 that will transform the future of space lift. At the 31st Space Symposium in April, Bruno unveiled the Vulcan rocket, ULA's next-generation launch system, which will be the highest-performing, most cost-efficient rocket on the market.

Additionally, Bruno announced ULA's Cubesat program in November, supporting science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) education and making space more accessible by offering universities the opportunity to compete for free rides to space on Atlas V rockets.

"This initiative will not only make STEM rides free, frequent and predictable, but will potentially double the world's lifts for CubeSat," said Bruno.

Over the course of the year, ULA was awarded three launch services contracts beating all commercial competitors for NASA's Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS-M) and Solar Probe Plus missions as well as the EchoStar XIX commercial mission.

"Customers are selecting ULA's launch vehicles for competitively awarded missions due to our proven reliability and schedule certainty," said Bruno. "We launch when our customers are ready to launch."

ULA also implemented new cost-savings initiatives in 2015. In coordination with the U.S. Air Force, ULA began conducting Offsite Vertical Integration (OVI) of the Centaur upper stage for the Atlas V rocket reducing the time required between launches and mitigating the risk of weather-related processing delays.  

In addition to OVI, ULA dramatically reduced costs of major supply chain items by 40-45 percent through strategic partnership initiatives with Orbital ATK, Blue Origin and RUAG for solid rocket boosters, the BE-4 engine development and composites production capability which will bring jobs from oversees to the United States, respectively.

"ULA will continue to find innovative ways to team with fellow industry experts because we absolutely must make space more affordable and accessible for our current and future customers," Bruno said.

ULA will celebrate its 10th anniversary year with its highest operations EELV tempo to date, with 16 launches planned for 2016.

"I cannot wait for another spectacular year of launches with ULA," Bruno said. "We are the nation's premier launch service provider because of our focus on mission success, unmatched reliability, schedule certainty and cost reduction for our customers. We will maintain that focus as we continue to transform the space launch industry in 2016. Congratulations and thank you again to all of our employees and families. I am truly humbled to work alongside you as we provide our nation with assured access to space."    

With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 100 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com. Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch, twitter.com/ulalaunch and instagram.com/ulalaunch.
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Salo

http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/12/30/russian-engine-purchase-adds-to-ulas-atlas-5-inventory/
ЦитироватьRussian engine purchase adds to ULA's Atlas 5 inventory       
Posted on December 30, 2015 by Stephen Clark

File photo of an Atlas 5 first stage with the dual-nozzle RD-180 engine. Credit: United Launch Alliance
 
Freed fr om a legal restriction officials said limited its ability to compete for future U.S. military satellite launches, United Launch Alliance has ordered 20 new RD-180 engines from Russia that will keep the Atlas 5 rocket flying into the early 2020s.
The new purchase of 20 RD-180 engines will serve ULA's existing and potential civil and commercial launch customers while the company supports development of a new U.S.-built engine to replace the Russian powerplant, which is used on the first stage of the company's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket, ULA said in a Dec. 23 statement.
ULA placed the order with RD AMROSS, a Florida-based company that imports the RD-180 engines manufactured by NPO Energomash, a Moscow firm that makes engines for most Russian launch vehicles.
"While ULA strongly believes now is the right time to move to an American engine solution for the future, it is also critical to ensure a smooth transition to that engine and to preserve healthy competition in the launch industry," ULA said in a statement.
The agreement for 20 more RD-180 engines comes after ULA's purchase of 29 engines before Russia's annexation of Crimea in early 2014.
Спойлер
United Launch Alliance was the sole company eligible to compete for contracts to launch the Pentagon's most expensive space missions since the company's formation in 2006 with the merger of Boeing and Lockheed Martin's Delta and Atlas rocket programs.
That changed last year with the Air Force's certification of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket to haul national security satellites into orbit. ULA remains the only contractor capable of delivering the military's heaviest spacecraft into orbit, until SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket goes through its own certification program, a milestone officials do not expect to be complete until 2017, assuming the triple-core rocket achieves three successful missions in time.
Language ins erted in to the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act limited ULA's use of RD-180 engines for future U.S. military launch competitions with SpaceX, outlawing engines that were paid for after Feb. 1, 2014.
Officials from ULA and the Air Force argued the limitation would unfairly inhibit the Atlas 5 rocket from competing head-to-head with SpaceX's Falcon 9 for lucrative military launch deals. ULA and Pentagon leaders wrangled with lawmakers for a year, attempting to carve out exemptions for at least some RD-180 engines to give the Atlas 5 access to the military contracts.
A clause in a U.S. government spending bill signed into law earlier this month effectively removed the RD-180 engine ban, stating that the Air Force could award launch contracts to any company certified to fly the Pentagon's satellites, regardless of the country of origin of the rocket's engines.
The lifting of the engine restriction was backed by Sen. Richard Shelby, a Republican of Alabama, wh ere ULA's rocket factory is located.
The policy reversal did not come in time for ULA to submit a bid for the launch of a Global Positioning System satellite in November. ULA says it did not give a proposal to the Air Force because it did not have an RD-180 engine eligible to use for the mission, blaming legal restrictions in the defense authorization act.
ULA chief executive Tory Bruno announced earlier this year his intention to retire the single-core medium-lift version of the Delta 4 rocket by 2018. While the Delta 4 uses U.S. engines, ULA admits it is more expensive than the Atlas 5 and not competitive the lower-priced Falcon 9.
With the Falcon 9's certification, and the availability of the Atlas 5 now more clear, the Air Force has two rockets capable of launching many — but not all — of the military's satellites, keeping the Pentagon's long-standing policy of assured access to space.
ULA said its purchase of more RD-180 engines does not affect its commitment to developing a new U.S. engine to take the place of the Russian powerplant in the future.
"We are moving smartly with our engine partners, Blue Origin and our backup Aerojet Rocketdyne, but this type of development program is difficult and takes years to complete," ULA said in a statement. "Until then, this bridge contract will allow ULA to provide the reliable, affordable launch services our civil and commercial customers depend on from us while the new, American engine is being developed."
Blue Origin and Aerojet Rocketdyne are working on the BE-4 and AR-1 engines, each generating about 500,000 pounds of thrust. Two of the engines would power the first stage of ULA's next-generation Vulcan launcher.
Lawmakers appropriated $227 million in 2016 to speed up development of a new U.S. propulsion system, to be doled out in a series of research and development contracts. Blue Origin and Aerojet Rocketdyne say private funding has financed their BE-4 and AR-1 engine work to date.
ULA says the Vulcan rocket should be ready for its first flight by the end of 2019, but it could take three more years to amass enough launches to be certified to carry U.S. military satellites.
[свернуть]
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"

Salo

#331
http://spaceflightnow.com/2016/01/02/2016-preview-united-launch-alliance/
ЦитироватьAlliance's busy year ahead       
Posted on January 2, 2016 by Justin Ray

CAPE CANAVERAL — Some of America's most critical surveillance satellites, final members of other spacecraft series and a probe that will touch an asteroid are among 15 rocket flights planned by United Launch Alliance in 2016.
It will be the 10th anniversary year for ULA, the launch firm that flies Atlas 5, Delta 4 and Delta 2 rockets from Cape Canaveral in Florida and Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
A record-setting eleven Atlas 5 launches are slated to occur, nine from the Cape and two from Vandenberg. Four Delta 4 launches are planned, three from the Cape and one from Vandenberg. No Delta 2s will launch in 2016.
The constellations of Block 2F series of Global Positioning System navigation satellites for the Air Force and the Navy's Mobile User Objective System communications spacecraft will be completed this year by Atlas 5 rocket launches.
In addition to the Navy's mobile communications system, launches to bolster the Defense Department's Wideband Global SATCOM and Advanced Extremely High Frequency satellite networks are scheduled, too.
There's also another commercial resupply mission to the International Space Station with the Cygnus ship planned.
On the national security surveillance front, four launches of classified payloads for the National Reconnaissance Office, the next SBIRS Geosynchronous missile-warning satellite and the another pair of Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program, or GSSAP, spacecraft are manifested.
The scientific highlight will be the launch of NASA's Origins-Spectral Interpretation-Resource Identification-Security-Regolith Explorer (OSIRIS-REx) spacecraft to rendezvous with an asteroid and return samples to Earth.
The 100th Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle mission should come by the autumn, marking a major milestone for the program born of the Air Force's need for new rockets. Both vehicles debuted in 2002.
In addition to the Orbital ATK Cygnus launch for the space station, two other commercial missions are slated to deliver the WorldView 4 imaging satellite and the EchoStar 19 broadband communications craft.
Спойлер

**UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE**
current standings

VEHICLE.....LAUNCHES
Atlas 5.......52
Delta 2.......28
Delta 4.......23

CUSTOMER
Air Force...41
NASA........25
NRO.........20
Commercial..17

LAUNCH SITE
Cape Canaveral...73
Vandenberg AFB...30

ULA successfully launched about 115,000 pounds of satellites and cargo into space in 2015, flying 12 times to deliver 16 spacecraft and 27 Cubesats for the Air Force, Navy, National Reconnaissance Office, NASA and commercial customers.
"What an incredible year for ULA," said Tory Bruno, president and CEO of ULA. "These missions are so important for keeping our service members safe around the world, enhancing our GPS capabilities and enabling scientific research in space that will inspire the next generation of rocket scientists and astronauts.
"I cannot wait for another spectacular year of launches with ULA," Bruno continued. "We are the nation's premier launch service provider because of our focus on mission success, unmatched reliability, schedule certainty and cost reduction for our customers."

Credit: ULA
 
**2016 LAUNCH LINEUP**

GPS 2F-12
 Atlas 5 (401)
 Cape Canaveral
 Feb. 3 (8:49-9:08 a.m. EST)
The year begins by completing a generation of navigation satellite launches with GPS 2F-12, the final member of the Boeing-built Block 2F series for the Air Force.

NROL-45
 Delta 4 Medium+(5,2)
 Vandenberg
 Feb. 10 (Period: 3-5 a.m. local)
The National Reconnaissance Office, which operates the country's fleet of overhead surveillance spacecraft, has four missions planned in 2016.

CYGNUS OA-6
 Atlas 5 (401)
 Cape Canaveral
 March 10 (approx. 3 a.m. EST)
Another commercial cargo run to the International Space Station will launch 7,700 pounds of supplies, food and experiments aboard Orbital ATK's Cygnus freighter.  

The most recent Cygnus arrived at the space station in December. Credit: NASA
 
MUOS 5
 Atlas 5 (551)
 Cape Canaveral
 May 5
The Mobile User Objective System satellite No. 5 finishes the Navy's constellation of communications spacecraft for warfighters on the move.

NROL-37
 Delta 4-Heavy
 Cape Canaveral
 May 12
America's heavy-lift rocket will launch a classified intelligence-gathering satellite for the nation, likely a complex delivery of the payload directly into geosynchronous orbit.

NROL-61
 Atlas 5 (421)
 Cape Canaveral
 June 24
Another hush-hush payload for the National Reconnaissance Office will be launched to ensure vigilance from above.

AFSPC 6 (GSSAP)
 Delta 4 Medium+(4,2)
 Cape Canaveral
 July 21
Under the name Air Force Space Command mission No. 6, a second pair of Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program, or GSSAP, satellites will be launched to monitor collision threats and nefarious activities in geosynchronous orbit for U.S. Strategic Command.

GSSAP artist rendering. Credit: Air Force
 
SBIRS GEO 3
 Atlas 5 (401)
 Cape Canaveral
 July 27
As one of the most vital satellites for the U.S., SBIRS GEO are infrared satellites in geosynchronous orbit that detect and provide early warning of enemy missile launches. Spacecraft No. 3 will join two sister-satellites covering Europe, Africa and the Indian Ocean.

OSIRIS-REx
 Atlas 5 (411)
 Cape Canaveral
 Sept. 3
NASA's OSIRIS-REx will launch to the near-Earth asteroid 101955 Bennu, extend a robotic arm to reach the asteroid's surface, capturing rocks and soil for return to Earth in September 2023 and a parachute-assisted touchdown.

WORLDVIEW 4
 Atlas 5 (401)
 Vandenberg
 Sept. 15
Presently slated to be the 100th EELV program launch, the commercial WorldView 4 Earth-imaging satellite will survey the globe in high resolution — 31-cm panchromatic resolution and 1.24-meter multi- spectral resolution — for operator DigitalGlobe.

WorldView 4 concept. Credit: Lockheed Martin
 
WGS 8
 Delta 4 Medium+(5,4)
 Cape Canaveral
 Sept. 28
The Air Force's Wideband Global SATCOM fleet is the highest capacity Defense Department communications satellites that ring the planet, providing anytime, anywhere connectivity to troops, ships, drones and civilian leaders. WGS 8 is a $354 million satellite.

GOES R
 Atlas 5 (541)
 Cape Canaveral
 Oct. 14
Beginning a new era in weather forecasting for the United States, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite R is the first of a new generation in meteorological spacecraft.

ECHOSTAR 19
 Atlas 5 (431)
 Cape Canaveral
 Nov. 10
The powerhouse EchoStar 19, also known as JUPITER 2, is a large, multi-spot beam Ka-band Internet-from-space communications satellite for HughesNet high-speed service in North America.

NROL-79
 Atlas 5 (401)
 Vandenberg
 Dec. 1
Launching a clandestine national security payload from America's western spaceport, the NROL-79 will be the fourth deployment flight this year for the National Reconnaissance Office.

AEHF 4
 Atlas 5 (531)
 Cape Canaveral
 Dec. 15
Joining three sister-satellites covering the Americas, Europe and Southeast Asia, the Advanced Extremely High Frequency spacecraft provide ultra-secure communications to link the president with military forces.
[свернуть]
"Были когда-то и мы рысаками!!!"


silentpom

наркоманы в штабе!

Apollo13

Вот так вот ты Альтаир в дверь, а он в окно :)

Apollo13

http://spacenews.com/mccain-schedules-hearing-on-russian-rocket-engines/

ЦитироватьMcCain schedules hearing on Russian rocket engines

WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee, warned in December his committee would consider an "indefinite" ban on the Russian engine that powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket.

Now, a little more than one month later, the full committee will hold a hearing Jan. 27 on "military space programs and the use of Russian-made rocket engines."

Deborah Lee James, the secretary of the Air Force, and Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's acquisition czar, are scheduled to testify as witnesses.

In December, a massive government-spending bill effectively lifted a ban, at least through Oct. 1, on the Russian RD-180 engine that powers the Atlas 5 rocket. As a response to Russia's 2014 incursion into Ukraine in 2014, Congress had outlawed future use of Russian engines for U.S. national security launches in the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act.

The 2016 NDAA, however, provided limited relief from the ban, giving ULA access to four more engines for upcoming Air Force competitions. This came after the Denver-based launch services provider said it had assigned five engines that previously were deemed exempt from the ban to nonmilitary missions.

McCain felt the spending bill undermined the work done by leaders of the House and Senate Armed Services committees to reach a compromise on the issue. In a blistering speech on the Senate floor in December, he said the Senate Armed Services Committee would consider "a complete and indefinite restriction on [Russian President Vladimir] Putin's rocket engines" as part of the NDAA for 2017.

The committee also is likely to discuss the Air Force's plan to develop an American-made rocket engine. On Jan. 13, the U.S. Air Force said it would invest up to $241 million in rocket propulsion systems Orbital ATK and SpaceX pitched as a way to end Air Force dependence on Russian engines. The service has said it could award additional contracts in the coming weeks.

At the same time, the service has awarded seven research contracts worth about $17 million to study various next-generation rocket technologies.
Вы будете смеяться, но Маккейн опять собрался запретить РД-180. В гневной речи он заявил что комитет рассмотрит "полный и неограниченный запрет на ракетные двигатели Путина"! В качестве свидетеля вызывается "царь закупок Пентагона". :)

silentpom

зря про батут шутили, ох зря

napalm

На чем тогда CST запускать?

Дмитрий В.

Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

На чем тогда CST запускать?
На "конкуренте" - на F9
Lingua latina non penis canina
StarShip - аналоговнет!

napalm

ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

На чем тогда CST запускать?
На "конкуренте" - на F9
На чем тогда Дракошу запускать??