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Тематические разделы => Средства выведения и другие технические вопросы => Тема начата: Петр Зайцев от 11.08.2009 16:17:18

Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 11.08.2009 16:17:18
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/ULA08109.xml&headline=ULA%20Proposes%20On-Orbit%20Gas%20Stations%20for%20Space%20Exploration&channel=space

Большая часть статьи - довольно занудные объяснения о том как постепенно унифицируются верхние ступени Атлас 5 и Дельта 4, а так же американский 7К-9К-11К (доперло наконец, после 45 лет), но есть и интересный параграф в конце:

ЦитироватьPhase 3 of the EELV upgrade plan is based around development of a new U.S.-designed liquid-oxygen/kerosene main engine to replace the Russian-supplied RD-180 used in the Atlas IV. The Air Force Research Laboratory is planning a hydrocarbon booster demonstration in 2018, and if the new engine is used in Atlas V, it would pave the way for its use in the reusable booster system (RBS) that could replace the EELV after 2030. The RBS would have reusable first and expendable second stages.

Кремлевские мечтатели какие-то. Хотят от РД-180 избавиться и забабахать многоразовую ступень, не хуже "Россиянки" или "Байкала". Денег нет, конечно.

-- Pete
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 11.08.2009 06:35:17
"Я планов наших люблю громадье!" :D
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Agent от 12.08.2009 06:43:03
Рокетдайн лет 5 назад возился для НАСА с RS-84
Как раз подходит по пописанию - многоразовый класса РД-180
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Salo от 02.11.2013 02:20:14
http://www.spacenews.com/article/launch-report/37962ula-finding-its-stride-in-rocket-production
ЦитироватьULA Finding its Stride In Rocket Production
By Mike Gruss | Nov. 1, 2013  

(http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/Engines_ULA4X3.jpg) (http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/Engines_ULA4X3.jpg)
United Launch Alliance receives its 2013 delivery of Atlas 5 RD-180 engines from RD Amross. The four engines arrived on an Antonov aircraft at Huntsville International Airport in Alabama and were transported to ULA's facility in Decatur, Ala. Credit: ULA photo
 
  DECATUR, Ala. — As United Launch Alliance (ULA) prepares for a busy launch calendar in 2015 and 2016, the company's main rocket assembly facility here is operating at the highest capacity in its 15-year history, ULA officials said.
A total of 26 rockets are in various stages of assembly at the plant, which began life in 1997 as a production facility for the Boeing-designed Delta 4 launcher. The Lockheed Martin-designed Atlas 5 was added after 2006, when the two aerospace giants merged their government launch businesses to create ULA.
With 140,000 square meters of floor space, the plant was sized to crank out up to 40 Delta 4 rocket cores per year, a requirement that was based in large part on projections of robust commercial demand for satellite launches. But the commercial market collapsed, a development that ultimately forced Boeing and Lockheed Martin, once bitter rivals in the launch business, into each other's arms. With the addition of the Atlas 5, the factory's output averages about a dozen vehicles per year.
SpaceNews visited the Decatur plant Oct. 22, the first time a print media outlet has toured the building in at least three years.
The occasion was the annual shipment of Russian-built RD-180 engines used to power the Atlas 5's main stage. The four engines, supplied by the U.S.-Russian RD-Amross joint venture, arrived at the Huntsville International Airport, about a half-hour drive from Decatur, on a Russian cargo plane from Moscow.
Within hours of the engines' arrival the Decatur plant, a completed Atlas 5 that will be used to launch NASA's Tracking and Data Relay Satellite-L satellite left the factory for its journey by ship to Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla. The launch is scheduled for January 2014.
"This is probably the busiest we've been," said Steve Crow, ULA's senior manager for factory support.  He was the plant's 32nd employee when he started in 1998.
Today the plant employs more than 800 people, including about 200 who have been hired because of increased work in recent years.  About half of those employees are classified as "touch labor," meaning they work directly on the rockets. The other half are support.
In addition, about 35 government employees oversee operations, including two from the Air Force and others from the Defense Contract Management Agency, NASA and the Aerospace Corp., the not-for-profit center that provides engineering support for U.S. national security space programs.
ULA has consolidated much of the assembly that its legacy companies previously performed in Denver, San Diego and Pueblo, Colo., at Decatur. ULA, which is headquartered near Denver, also has fewer than 200 people working at a plant in Harlingen, Texas, that fabricates and builds unpressurized structures, including payload fairings and adapters.
The current mix of rockets in production at the plant, so large that many employees use electric carts or bicycles to get around, includes 13 Atlas 5 rockets, nine Delta 4s and four Delta 2s. The Delta 2 is no longer in production, but ULA recently sold four of the five remaining vehicles to NASA, and these are now being readied for their missions.
The process of building a rocket typically takes about one year from start to finish. They begin as oversized sheets of aluminum that are cut, cleaned, deburred, shaped through thousands of repetitions of pounding, pressure tested, insulated and assembled.
Engines typically arrive at least one year ahead of launch, company officials said. ULA currently has 2.5 years worth of Atlas 5 engine inventory on hand.
Broc Cote, ULA's RD-180 program manager, said the company expects to take delivery of five RD-180 engines next year and six in 2015. The Delta 4 uses a U.S.-built main engine dubbed the RS-68.
Although the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 have similar upper-stage engines — both use variants of Aerojet Rocketdyne's RL-10 — they are completely different designs. ULA is nevertheless working to introduce greater commonality to the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 production process to reduce costs.
Today, about 50 percent of the company's assembly procedures are common to both vehicles, Crow said. But ULA is under pressure to do more to bring down Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program costs, which have skyrocketed in recent years, prompting the Air Force to take steps to bring competition to the national security market.
As part of its cost-cutting strategy, the Air Force is negotiating a block buy of 36 rocket cores from ULA on a sole-source basis. At the same time, however, the service is planning to competitively order an additional 14 missions, giving upstarts like Space Exploration Technologies Corp., commonly known as SpaceX, a chance to break into a market that ULA has had largely to itself since its formation.
ULA, which already uses the same launch teams for Atlas 5 and Delta 4, is looking for ways to bring even more commonality to the manufacturing process, Crow said. Those ideas are regularly vetted by an engineering review board and must also prove they can save the company money, he said.
The U.S. government is expected to spend some $44 billion on satellite launches and related services over the next five years, according to the U.S. Government Accountability Office.
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Salo от 01.02.2014 11:29:46
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1401/27blockbuy/#.Uuyhw_s2NeI    
ЦитироватьULA signs deal to deliver three-dozen booster cores
BY JUSTIN RAY
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: January 27, 2014
 
CAPE CANAVERAL, FL - A blockbuster rocket-buying agreement has been signed between the Air Force and United Launch Alliance, the supplier of boosters for national security spaceflight.

(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/91869.jpg)
Credit: Walter Scriptunas II / Scriptunas Images (http://www.scriptunasimages.com/)
 
The deal aims to produce 36 booster cores for the Pentagon's use over the next few years of Atlas 5 and Delta 4 Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicles. Delivery of the rockets through 2017 comes at a savings of $4.4 billion over previous estimates in President Obama's FY 2012 budget.
Спойлер
"We congratulate the Department of Defense for successfully leading efficient acquisition approaches and better buying practices by leveraging Economic Order Quantity (EOQ) purchasing to enable ULA to deliver several billions of dollars of savings to the U.S. Government over the contract period of performance," said Michael Gass, ULA president and CEO.
"ULA has been entrusted with the nation's most important and valuable national security space assets that provide our warfighters critical capabilities. With the award of this contract, ULA will continue to deliver the most capable and successful family of launch vehicles ever developed."
The first batch of 7 cores under the three dozen Block Buy are four Air Force missions -- Atlas 5-501, Atlas 5-511, Delta 4 Medium+ 4,2 and 5,4 rockets -- and one Delta 4-Heavy for the National Reconnaissance Office.
The goal strives to stabilize the rocket production business while giving the government the advantage of buying in bulk to drive down the costs of putting satellites into space.
"This contracting approach brings significant value to our customer and helps realize the cost savings ULA continues to achieve in consolidating the Atlas and Delta systems," said Gass.
"The contract provides the proper incentives to enable continued cost reductions while balancing risk to ensure continued mission success for these critical national missions. This contract also reflects the commitment of ULA and our suppliers to maintain our nation's national security needs while aggressively responding to the fiscal constraints the nation faces."
 
(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/91870.jpg)
Credit: Walter Scriptunas II / Scriptunas Images (http://www.scriptunasimages.com/)
 
Created in the 1990s as the next-generation families of boosters to haul all of the U.S. national security spacecraft, from the smallest weather satellites to the world's largest eavesdropping birds, the Air Force's EELV fleet has become the mainstay in spacelift operations today.
Both the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 were designed as modular systems with different sized nose cones for added room when needed, the ability to add varying numbers of strap-on solid motors for extra power, even two options for an upper stage on the Boeing vehicle to tailor a rocket to the payload it would carry. The result was phasing out the Air Force's reliance on the medium-class Delta 2 and Titan 2, the intermediate Atlas 2, heavy-lift Titan 4 rockets and all of the vast infrastructure needed for the four different rocket lines.
EELV was the path forward for military space, a collection of rockets built through just two systems to span the full range of needs the Pentagon could invision to keeping its constellations of communications, navigation and weather satellites flying high, plus delivering critical performance to the National Reconnaissance Office and its management of the overhead surveillance system for the U.S. government.
Although competition from upstart SpaceX could be in the offing later this decade, the Air Force conceived the EELV rockets with seed money to Lockheed Martin and Boeing to spur development of the Atlas 5 and the Delta 4, and now runs both systems with the United Launch Alliance.
In an effort to ensure both rocket lines remained viable for assured access to space and to erase the duplicate overhead costs, the two parent companies formed ULA in 2006 and transferred the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 products to the commercial firm that Gass has presided over since its inception.
ULA serves the Air Force, the spy satellite agency at the National Reconnaissance Office and NASA for government payload deployments.
 
(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/91871.jpg)
Credit: Walter Scriptunas II / Scriptunas Images (http://www.scriptunasimages.com/)

With retirement of the space shuttle, nixing the once-proposed Constellation program back to the Moon and a cloudy picture of what is next in exploration, the U.S. propulsion industry was thrown into a state of turmoil, causing prices to rise given the unknown future.
The inaugural launch for EELV came on Aug. 21, 2002, when an Atlas 5 carried a European television satellite to orbit for Eutelsat. The new era for U.S. rockets continued that November when the first Delta 4 blasted off carrying another commercial spacecraft for the same Paris-based operator, giving both EELVs a paying passenger on their debuts.
The first Air Force satellite flew on the third flight, sending a communications satellite for the troops into orbit in March 2003 atop a Delta 4.
The next major milestone in the program came in December 2004 when the heavy-lift version of Delta 4, a triple-barreled booster to carry the largest and heaviest payloads, soared on a test flight to iron out the bugs before the costliest national assets were entrusted to the vehicle on subsequent flights.
It was a fortuitous decision to conduct such a demonstration without a real satellite onboard. A phenomenon, called cavitation, caused bubbles to form in the liquid oxygen plumbing that fooled instrumentation into thinking the tanks were running empty, shutting down the main engines prematurely.
The condition was thoroughly analyzed and corrected, allowing Delta 4-Heavy to assume the big payload launches from the retiring Titan 4 rocket, fulfilling one of the primary purposes for EELV.
[свернуть]
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Salo от 01.02.2014 11:30:41
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1401/30blockbuy/#.UuygIPs2NeI
ЦитироватьFour Delta 4-Heavy rockets part of ULA block buy deal
BY JUSTIN RAY
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: January 30, 2014
 
CAPE CANAVERAL, FL - There will be 28 launches of Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets enabled through the new block buy, including four Heavy rockets, with the three dozen cores purchased by the Pentagon.
 
(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/91872.jpg)
Credit: Gene Blevins/LA Daily News

"This contract action saves $4.4 billion in taxpayer funds fr om what was originally submitted in the FY12 President's Budget request. That in itself is a significant achievement but the block buy also stabilizes the U.S. launch industrial base while setting up a competitive environment going forward," according to the Air Force press desk.
"This contract locks in firm-fixed prices for launch services for the next five years to support the National Security Space (NSS) manifest. These launch services cover missions wh ere only ULA is capable of meeting the required mission performance."
The Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle Launch Vehicle Production Services (LVPS) and Capability contract award to United Launch Alliance has a potential value of up to $10 billion, which includes future LVPS orders and the annual priced capability options through FY19. The current contract value is $2.6 billion.
" The long term commitment and stable production quantities allowed ULA to commit to year over year cost reductions for the associated capability to launch the 36 cores and the previously-procured cores not yet launched," the Air Force said.
"The 36 EELV cores for the Air Force, National Reconnaissance Office and Navy will be procured across FY13-17. The contract also includes the capability to launch those cores and previously-procured cores from ULA, the last of which is scheduled to launch in 2019."
 The contract procures a variety of launch vehicle configurations to meet the manifest for such satellites as GPS, AEHF, SBIRS and MUOS. There are four Delta 4-Heavy launch vehicles as part of the 36 core commitment.
"The Air Force's guiding priority in this effort is to continue our proven record of successful launches while continuing to be a good steward of the American taxpayer's money. This contract obtained near-term savings from our existing supplier. We continue to work with potential New Entrants to gain the benefits of competition as soon as possible," the press desk said.

Read our earlier story (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1401/27blockbuy/) on the deal.
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: Salo от 01.02.2014 12:00:45
http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/39348us-air-force-claims-big-savings-on-eelv-block-buy
ЦитироватьU.S. Air Force Claims Big Savings on EELV Block Buy  
By Mike Gruss | Jan. 31, 2014  
(http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/Delta4NROlaunch_ULA4X3.jpg) (http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/Delta4NROlaunch_ULA4X3.jpg)
A ULA Delta 4 Heavy rocket lofts a satellite for the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office in August. In a $530 million EELV contract modification announcement in December, the U.S. Air Force listed five rocket configurations including the Delta 4 Heavy, which uses three rocket cores in a side-by-side configuration. Credit: ULA photo

WASHINGTON — United Launch Alliance (ULA) and the U.S. Air Force have come to contractual terms for the first batch of rockets in a long-awaited bulk purchase that the service said forms the core of its strategy for saving money on a program whose soaring costs once made it a lightning rod for criticism.
Setting the stage for the upcoming competitive phase of the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program, Denver-based ULA and the Air Force claim the new contracting structure has already saved taxpayers billions of dollars. 
Спойлер

The Air Force in 2013 announced three contracts with ULA whose total combined value is just under $2.6 billion, including an initial $1 billion order in June to support seven EELV missions. In December, the Air Force announced a $530 million contract modification "for fiscal 2014 through fiscal 2017 launch vehicle production services and options for that associated launch capability for fiscal 2015 through fiscal 2019." 
The December announcement listed five rocket configurations including a Delta 4 Heavy, which uses three rocket cores in a side-by-side configuration, meaning that together the contracts cover 14 of the 36 EELV rocket cores anticipated in the multiyear block buy.
Also included in ULA's current Air Force contract portfolio is a one-year deal worth nearly $1 billion, announced in October, for so-called EELV Launch Capability. This is the latest in a series of contracts ULA gets on an annual basis to cover services not necessarily associated with a given launch, and which have been branded as a subsidy by ULA's prospective competitors.
The block buy is part of the Air Force's two-pronged strategy for reducing EELV costs, the other being the introduction of competition in U.S. national security launches. ULA has had that business almost entirely to itself since it was created in 2006 by the merger of the U.S. government launch businesses of Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
The Air Force plan entails buying the 36 rocket cores fr om ULA on a sole-source basis. An additional 14 missions will be awarded competitively, giving upstarts like Space Exploration Technologies Corp. of Hawthorne, Calif., a crack at the market.  
Buying in bulk is a tried and true method for reducing unit costs. To give an example, ULA in 2010 quoted prices for an Atlas 5 launch to NASA that ranged from $104 million to $334 million. Company officials in early 2011 said uncertainty about how many rockets the Air Force would commit to buying accounted for the wide variance in the NASA proposal. A large Air Force commitment, ULA officials said, would drive the actual costs to NASA toward the lower end of the scale.
"This contract stabilizes the U.S. launch industrial base while saving a substantial amount of taxpayer money and setting the program up for competition going forward," Capt. Adam Gregory, a spokesman for the secretary of the Air Force, said in a Jan. 15 email. "The contract is the largest component of the EELV initiatives that have saved $4.4 billion in total program cost since the President submitted the FY2012 Budget to Congress in February 2011."
Adding up the Numbers
A complete accounting of wh ere claimed savings are coming from was not immediately available, however, in part because the Air Force and ULA do not disclose EELV program costs on a per-rocket basis. A review of Air Force budget planning documents dating back to 2011, meanwhile, shows some anticipated decline in EELV spending, but not nearly $4.4 billion worth.
Complicating the picture is the fact that anticipated EELV budgets tend to ebb and flow as the number of expected launches in any given year changes. 
Moreover, a significant portion of the EELV budget is classified. According to budget documents leaked last year by National Security Agency contractor-turned-whistleblower Edward Snowden and reported by The Washington Post, the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office, which buys and operates the nation's classified spy satellites, requested $1.3 billion for launch services in 2013. 
Since 2012, a Trend of Declining Costs
Unclassified budget documents indicate that the Air Force's share of the EELV budget in 2013 and 2014 wound up being a combined $782 million less than was anticipated when the service submitted its 2012 spending plan. Each year's spending plan includes five-year projections for each program.
For example, the Air Force's 2012 future-years plan anticipated the EELV program would need more than $2 billion in 2014. But the service's actual request for 2014 was considerably less, at $1.88 billion, and Congress appropriated just $1.51 billion.
ULA cited the cut of nearly $370 million from the 2014 request as an indication that program costs are coming down significantly. 
The "reduction in the omnibus bill shows the benefits associated with an efficient procurement approach and contract incentive structures to deliver real, near-term savings without sacrificing the reliability our customers have come to expect," ULA spokeswoman Jessica Rye said in a Jan. 16 email. 
Additionally, the out-year projections accompanying the 2014 request show an anticipated decline in EELV spending of $937 million from 2015-2017 compared with the projections in the 2012 and 2013 requests. 
But projecting future-year budgets is like predicting the weather — the further out one goes, the less reliable the estimates become. Moreover, future savings — or cost growth — can vary widely depending on which year's projections are used as the baseline. For example, the out-year EELV cost projections in the 2012 request were dramatically higher than the previous year's request. 
Michael Gass, ULA's president and chief executive, said the Defense Department is buying the company's rockets on a scale and timeline that minimizes inventory and ordering costs.
This "brings significant value to our customer and helps realize the cost savings ULA continues to achieve in consolidating the Atlas and Delta systems," Gass said in an email Jan. 13. "The contract provides the proper incentives to enable continued cost reductions while balancing risk to ensure continued mission success for these critical national missions."
SpaceX Weighs in with its Own Estimates
SpaceX, meanwhile, which is awaiting Air Force certification of its Falcon 9 v1.1 rocket to carry national security payloads, believes it can save taxpayers about $1 billion a year from 2015-2017.
SpaceX, which likely will be competing against ULA — and perhaps others — for the 14 missions that the Air Force is putting up for grabs, is calling for the service to eliminate the contracting structure under which ULA receives two separate lines of funding: One for launch vehicles and related services; and the EELV Launch Capability funding.  
"SpaceX expects the billion dollar plus fixed payment subsidy (aka the ELC) to ULA to be phased out over time, as that is obviously contrary to fair and open competition," Elon Musk, the company's chief executive, said in an email.
The Air Force is expected to begin awards for the competitively bid launches in 2015 for missions launching in 2017
[свернуть]
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: ВВК от 01.02.2014 08:03:13
Как -то не двузначно Спейс Х назвали выскочкой
Название: Планов громадье в ULA
Отправлено: SFN от 01.02.2014 08:23:35
ЦитироватьВВК пишет:
Как -то не двузначно Спейс Х назвали выскочкой
 
 


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    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 12.02.2014 00:21:41
    http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/39441air-force-to-re-examine-rd-180-production-dual-launch-funding
    ЦитироватьAir Force To Re-examine RD-180 Production, Dual-launch Funding  
    By Mike Gruss | Feb. 10, 2014  
    (http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/Atlas5RD180_ULA4X3.jpg) (http://www.spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/Atlas5RD180_ULA4X3.jpg)
    The U.S. Air Force will study the Atlas 5 rocket's RD-180 main engine, built by Russia's NPO Energomash and sold to ULA by RD-Amross, a joint venture between Energomash and United Technologies Corp. Credit: ULA photo
     
    THULE AIR FORCE BASE, Greenland — The U.S. Air Force is initiating an extensive review of nearly every element of its launch activities for 2017 and beyond, including the feasibility of U.S. production of the Russian-built RD-180 rocket engine and scrapping the service's involvement in developing dual-launch capabilities. 
    The study, expected to start in several weeks, is one of several exercises led by Gen. William Shelton, commander of Air Force Space Command, that are intended to help shape the future of the service's space portfolio. In an interview with SpaceNews en route to Thule Air Base Jan. 27, he described the launch study as one of his major initiatives for 2014. 
    The key, he said, is to find the right contracting strategy for space launches in future years. 
    "We have to be mindful of the whole gamut of capability. We're trying to drive to smaller and smaller satellites but we'll still have heavy satellites come out of the National Reconnaissance Office. We may have some heavy satellites of our own," he said. "You've got to be able to go down to heavy to a medium class and maybe even a small class in national security payloads in the future. Covering that entire spectrum and having that right strategy in place, and I'm really talking contracting strategy here, is going to be key for where we're headed."
    For nearly a decade, United Launch Alliance, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, has had a virtual monopoly on the national security launch market with its Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets. But the Air Force plans to introduce competition in the coming years, giving new entrants like Space Exploration Technologies Corp. a shot. 
    The study also will examine the Atlas 5's RD-180 main engine, built by NPO Energomash in the Moscow region and sold to ULA by RD-Amross, a joint venture between the Russian manufacturer and United Technologies Corp. Although ULA says it has a solid stockpile of RD-180s, reliance on Russian engines for national security launch has long been a simmering concern, one that heated up last year amid reports that the Russian government was mulling a ban on their export to the United States.
    "We believe that they're going to produce RD-180s and sell them to us so we're not really concerned," Shelton said.
    In November, however, Sen. Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) introduced a bill calling for an estimate of the costs of manufacturing an alternative to the Russian-made RD-180 engine in the United States. 
    The bill also asked for an estimate of the savings that a U.S. engine would provide during the life of the Air Force's Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program, on which Denver-based ULA is prime contractor.
    "If Atlas is going to be the workhorse for us forever, do you want to continue to buy RD-180s forever?" Shelton said. "Do you want to look at co-production here in the United States, something along those lines?"
    Bill Parsons, president and chief executive of RD-Amross of West Palm Beach, Fla., told SpaceNews in October (http://www.spacenews.com/article/features/38214profile-bill-parsons-president-and-chief-executive-rd-amross) that while the company likes the idea of building the RD-180 in the United States — RD-Amross has all the designs for the engine — doing so could increase its cost by as much as 50 percent. 
    Shelton was skeptical. 
    "I think there's certainly people have their own motivations for making those kind of statements," Shelton said. "Do we want to insulate ourselves from future concerns about reliability of delivery of RD-180s? That is a true national security question."
    Derived from the giant Soviet-era RD-170 engine, the kerosene-fueled RD-180 was developed during the 1990s for Lockheed Martin's commercial Atlas 3 rocket, which morphed into the Atlas 5 under the EELV program. 
    ULA currently has 2.5 years' worth of Atlas 5 engine inventory on hand at its factory in Decatur, Ala., and is expected to receive five engines next year and six engines in 2015.
    The launch study also will re-examine Air Force plans to develop the capability to launch two satellites on the same rocket, known as dual launch.  Lockheed Martin Space Systems of Denver, prime contractor on the next-generation GPS 3 navigation satellites, and ULA have worked to develop such a capability for the Atlas 5, and Lockheed executives have said dual launches could save as much as $50 million per satellite. Plans had called for dual launches beginning with the ninth GPS 3 satellite. 
    Congress appropriated $20 million in 2014 for the Air Force's EELV engineering, manufacturing and development account, which funds the dual-launch development activity. 
    But Shelton said the service now is disinclined to continue supporting that effort after potential bidders for the GPS 3 launches complained that the dual-launch funding could tip the scales in ULA's favor.
    "We got some fairly serious concern from new entrants that dual launch was a way of shutting them out of GPS launches. And I hadn't even thought about that until they brought it up," Shelton said. "So what we're looking at is dual launch really the way we want to go? Does the government want to fund dual launch? Certainly ULA can pursue dual launch if they want to do that with internal money. "
     
    Follow Mike on Twitter: @Gruss_SN (http://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: LL_ от 12.03.2014 10:27:40
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории

    Запас приобретенных у России РД-180 позволяет производить пуски тяжелых ракет-носителей "Атлас-5" до 2016 года

    ВАШИНГТОН, 12 марта. /Корр. ИТАР-ТАСС Дмитрий Кирсанов/. Соединенные Штаты выясняют стоимость возможности налаживания лицензионного производства российских ракетных двигателей РД-180 на американской территории. Это подтвердил во вторник на встрече с журналистами, отвечая на вопросы корреспондента ИТАР-ТАСС, заместитель министра военно-воздушных сил (ВВС) США Эрик Фэннинг.
    Он высоко оценил взаимодействие Москвы и Вашингтона в рамках проекта закупок двигателей РД-180 американской стороной. "Партнерство, которое у нас имеется с Россией по этому двигателю, как мне кажется, чрезвычайно важно для обеих наших стран... Речь идет о прочном многолетнем партнерстве... Поставки нам (т. е. США) РД-180 являются... одним из многих примеров давнего сотрудничества", - подчеркнул Фэннинг.
    Согласно изложенной им информации, у США в настоящее время имеется запас приобретенных у России РД-180, позволяющий производить пуски тяжелых ракет-носителей "Атлас-5", на которые устанавливается этот двигатель, в обозримой перспективе, включающей текущий и следующий годы, а также "значительную часть 2016-го".
    Вместе с тем, поскольку речь идет о "критически важной части" американской программы космических запусков, США "хотели бы иметь более разнообразное предложение", а не полагаться в этом плане только на одного производителя, заявил замминистра ВВС. По его словам, американская сторона "изучает вопрос о том, как этого можно было бы добиться, сколько в действительности стоило бы создание линии производства данного двигателя в США, если бы мы получили лицензию" на это. "Сейчас проводится бизнес-анализ этого вопроса, рассматривается эффективность такого рода инвестиций", - отметил специалист.
    Как он признал, американские ВВС, осуществляющие космические пуски в интересах национальной безопасности, внимательно следят за "текущей ситуацией в двусторонних (российско-американских) отношениях, чтобы убедиться, что мы можем защитить эти поставки" двигателя РД-180 в США. Выработка таких оценок началась "задолго до того, как возникла нынешняя ситуация с Украиной", она происходит всякий раз, когда "мы полагаемся в плане получения столь важного оборудования на продавцов за пределами США", заверил Фэннинг.
    "Насколько мне известно, никто не выступал" за разрыв российско-американского сотрудничества, предусматривающего куплю-продажу РД-180, сказал эксперт. "Я ничего не видел ни с одной стороны (ни России, ни США), указывающего на то, что эти поставки находятся под угрозой... Я не видел никаких признаков того, что отношения, в рамках которых мы получаем эти двигатели, находятся под угрозой", - добавил замминистра.
    О том, что американские ВВС намерены изучить перспективы развертывания лицензионной сборки РД-180 в США, сообщил в феврале специализированный еженедельник Space News. Он ссылался на распоряжения, отданные главой Космического командования ВВС США генералом Уильямом Шелтоном.
    РД-180 создаются НПО "Энергомаш", расположенным в Химках. В США они адаптируются российско-американским СП "РД-Амрос". Как ранее сообщал руководитель "РД-Амрос" Билл Парсонс, текущий контракт на поставки в США двигателей РД-180 заключен до конца 2018 года. Комментируя в октябре минувшего года вопрос о возможности сборки РД-180 по лицензии в США, он заявил, что это бы привело к росту стоимости такой продукции на 50%.
    Однако Шелтон в интервью Space News заявил, что скептически относится к подобного рода оценкам. "Безусловно, есть люди, которыми движет их собственная мотивация, приводящая к появлению такого рода заявлений", - утверждал Шелтон.
    При этом он указал, что его на данном этапе совершенно не беспокоит надежность "РД-Амрос" как поставщика двигателей. Вопрос заключается в том, хотят ли власти США "оградить себя от возможных будущих обеспокоенностей насчет надежности поставок двигателей РД-180", пояснил генерал. По его оценке, "это - подлинно вопрос национальной безопасности".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Вал от 12.03.2014 07:37:44
    ЦитироватьLL_ пишет:
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории
    Методом сборки из энергомашевских комплектующих? Запросто.
    Сделать РД180 на "своих" материалах - сначала 5 лет НИОКР, потом 5 лет отработки. Они себе такого позволить не смогут  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 12.03.2014 19:05:27
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьLL_ пишет:
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории
    Методом сборки из энергомашевских комплектующих? Запросто.
    Сделать РД180 на "своих" материалах - сначала 5 лет НИОКР, потом 5 лет отработки. Они себе такого позволить не смогут
    Им проданы полностью все описания материалов и технологий.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: ronatu от 13.03.2014 02:15:10
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьLL_ пишет:
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории
    Методом сборки из энергомашевских комплектующих? Запросто.
    Сделать РД180 на "своих" материалах - сначала 5 лет НИОКР, потом 5 лет отработки. Они себе такого позволить не смогут
    2 года максимум.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 12.03.2014 18:47:03
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьLL_ пишет:
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории
    Методом сборки из энергомашевских комплектующих? Запросто.
    Сделать РД180 на "своих" материалах - сначала 5 лет НИОКР, потом 5 лет отработки. Они себе такого позволить не смогут
    Им проданы полностью все описания материалов и технологий.
    Проблема в том, что им придется или воспроизводить эти материалы, или заменять их местными аналогами. В последнем случае придется пересчитывать все: прочность, тепловой расчет и т.д. Соответственно, испытания в полном объеме.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: m-s Gelezniak от 12.03.2014 18:49:51
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьLL_ пишет:
    США рассматривают вопрос производства российских ракетных двигателей на своей территории
    Методом сборки из энергомашевских комплектующих? Запросто.
    Сделать РД180 на "своих" материалах - сначала 5 лет НИОКР, потом 5 лет отработки. Они себе такого позволить не смогут
    Им проданы полностью все описания материалов и технологий.
    Проблема в том, что им придется или воспроизводить эти материалы, или заменять их местными аналогами. В последнем случае придется пересчитывать все: прочность, тепловой расчет и т.д. Соответственно, испытания в полном объеме.
    И метрический прокaт.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 12.03.2014 20:03:11
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Проблема в том, что им придется или воспроизводить эти материалы, или заменять их местными аналогами. В последнем случае придется пересчитывать все: прочность, тепловой расчет и т.д. Соответственно, испытания в полном объеме.
    Воспроизведут. Чего там... Для бешеной собаки семь вёрст не крюк.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Вал от 13.03.2014 02:10:56
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Проблема в том, что им придется или воспроизводить эти материалы, или заменять их местными аналогами. В последнем случае придется пересчитывать все: прочность, тепловой расчет и т.д. Соответственно, испытания в полном объеме.
    Воспроизведут. Чего там... Для бешеной собаки семь вёрст не крюк.
    Никаких сомнений. Только это будет другой двигатель. И 7-10 лет. Как это у вас? НННШ  :)  
    Да и вот такие "Time for a Rocket Intervention" (http://spacenews.com/article/opinion/36078time-for-a-rocket-intervention) настроения сейчас там превалируют.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 13.03.2014 10:54:09
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Проблема в том, что им придется или воспроизводить эти материалы, или заменять их местными аналогами. В последнем случае придется пересчитывать все: прочность, тепловой расчет и т.д. Соответственно, испытания в полном объеме.
    Воспроизведут. Чего там... Для бешеной собаки семь вёрст не крюк.
    Никаких сомнений. Только это будет другой двигатель. И 7-10 лет. Как это у вас? НННШ
    Да и вот такие "Time for a Rocket Intervention" (http://spacenews.com/article/opinion/36078time-for-a-rocket-intervention) настроения сейчас там превалируют.
    Фигня. Найдут отечественные материалы с характеристиками даже превышающими наши, милиметры округлят вверх до десятой или сотой дюйма и всё будет железобетонно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Вал от 13.03.2014 07:22:12
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    Фигня. Найдут отечественные материалы с характеристиками даже превышающими наши, милиметры округлят вверх до десятой или сотой дюйма и всё будет железобетонно.
    Никаких сомнений в том что могут сделать и нет :) Захотят ли?
    Да и вот еще "нюансик" - сопутствующие патенты-то принадлежат энергомашу и они (патенты), кроме России, зарегистрированы еще и в США. А это снова отчисления, отчисления...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 13.03.2014 12:36:57
    ЦитироватьВал пишет:
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    Фигня. Найдут отечественные материалы с характеристиками даже превышающими наши, милиметры округлят вверх до десятой или сотой дюйма и всё будет железобетонно.
    Никаких сомнений в том что могут сделать и нет Захотят ли?
    Да и вот еще "нюансик" - сопутствующие патенты-то принадлежат энергомашу и они (патенты), кроме России, зарегистрированы еще и в США. А это снова отчисления, отчисления...
    Я думаю что технической, технологической и юридической проблемы нет вообще. Проблема в уровне зарплаты. Произведённый в США американскими рабочими этот двигатель будет стоить столько что Атлас мгновенно окажется неконкурентоспособен. А тут ещё как назло этот Маск...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 13.03.2014 14:02:05
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    Я думаю что технической, технологической и юридической проблемы нет вообще. Проблема в уровне зарплаты. Произведённый в США американскими рабочими этот двигатель будет стоить столько что Атлас мгновенно окажется неконкурентоспособен. А тут ещё как назло этот Маск...
    А почему вы думаете, что это будет точная копия РД-180 со всеми заморочками? А не что-то "по-мотивам", на основе американской технологической культуры и инженерных традиций. По-проще и по-дешевле. 

    Что-то мне думается, что примут решение разрабатывать что-то на основе уменьшенного в два раза F-1. С открытым циклом и одной камерой. А меньший удельный импульс компенсируют за счёт роста тяги на первой ступени.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 13.03.2014 15:49:05
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    А почему вы думаете, что это будет точная копия РД-180 со всеми заморочками? А не что-то "по-мотивам", на основе американской технологической культуры и инженерных традиций. По-проще и по-дешевле.

    Что-то мне думается, что примут решение разрабатывать что-то на основе уменьшенного в два раза F-1. С открытым циклом и одной камерой. А меньший удельный импульс компенсируют за счёт роста тяги на первой ступени.
    Тогда это будет уже совершенно другой двигатель. С соответствующим расходом сил, средств и времени и опять же ценой. Маск только порадуется.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Valerij от 14.03.2014 23:23:49
    ЦитироватьRussian Engine on Rocket Needs U.S. Review, Hagel Says
    By Tony Capaccio  
    Mar 13, 2014 11:20 PM GMT+0400

       
    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel today told a House defense panel that Russia's actions in Ukraine will lead the Pentagon to reassess the use of Russian-made engines on Atlas V rockets.

    "This is going to engage us in a review of that," Hagel told the House Appropriations defense subcommittee today. "No question about that."

    United Launch Alliance LLC, a joint venture of Boeing Co. (BA) and Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT), uses Russian-made engines on Atlas V rockets the Pentagon depends on to launch military satellites. Tensions over Russia's military intervention in Ukraine's Crimea region has sparked questions about that supply connection.

    The Pentagon leases launch services from United Launch Alliance, including the rocket. Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed used the Russian-made RD 180 engine for years on its Atlas V rocket before joining Chicago-based Boeing in the alliance.

    Elon Musk, the billionaire owner of Space Exploration Technologies Corp., a company that's trying to break into the military launch market, said at a congressional hearing on March 5 that launches may be at risk because of Boeing's and Lockheed's dependence on the Russian engine.

    Musk, who also is chairman and chief executive officer of Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA), said the Atlas V rockets should be phased out for the "long-term security interest of the country."

    United Launch Alliance has an engine supply of more than two years in the U.S., Michael Gass, president and chief operating officer of the company, said at the same hearing.

    "We bought all the blueprints and specifications, brought them into the country," and demonstrated "that we can take the blueprints and specifications" and replicate the engines if needed, Gass said.

    "We invested hundreds of millions of dollars to prove that we have the capability to demonstrate our ability to build that exact engine."

    To contact the reporter on this story: Tony Capaccio in Washington at acapaccio@bloomberg.net

    To contact the editors responsible for this story: John Walcott at jwalcott9@bloomberg.net Larry Liebert, Stephanie Stoughton
       
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-13/russian-engine-on-rocket-needs-u-s-review-hagel-says.html
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 20.05.2014 07:34:51
    "Реклама - двигатель торговли" (С)   ;)  
    Постер из журнала Aviation Week & Space Technology, выпуск 19 Мая 2014
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/43860)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 20.05.2014 15:44:47
    With questions swirling, ULA hastens Delta 4 production
    http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1405/19delta4/

    ЦитироватьCOLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- United Launch Alliance chief executive Michael Gass said Monday the rocket builder is accelerating production of the Delta 4 launcher to ensure U.S. national security satellites can get to space in case imports of Russian rocket engines are halted.

    Gass told reporters Monday the decision to ramp up Delta 4 rocket production was part of a contingency plan adopted by ULA under the U.S. Defense Department's policy of assured access to space, which led to the development of the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rocket families in the 1990s.

    "The first thing we're doing is making sure we're implementing that contingency plan, which includes the acceleration of Delta 4 production, so some of that work is underway," Gass said.

    Спойлер
    ULA was formed in 2006 by the merger of Lockheed Martin's Atlas 5 rocket program with the Boeing-designed Delta 4, which uses U.S.-built engines, in a bid to cut overhead costs while maintaining two independent launch vehicle families.

    The future of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which has a first stage powered by Russian-built RD-180 engines, was muddled twice in the last three weeks, first when a U.S. federal judge issued a temporary injunction ordering ULA and the U.S. Air Force to stop purchasing the engine from Russia.

    The preliminary order was issued April 30 after SpaceX filed a lawsuit in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims attempting to block the sole-source award of 28 rocket launches to ULA. In its filing with the court, in which the company claimed it could launch U.S. military satellites at a quarter of ULA's costs, SpaceX alleged the purchases of the RD-180 engine might violate sanctions levied against Russian officials in the wake up the annexation of Crimea.

    The judge lifted the injunction May 8 after U.S. government officials submitted letters to the court saying they have no evidence the engine trade violates any sanctions.

    Then Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, who is charged with managing Russia's space and defense sectors, announced May 13 that Russia would restrict future RD-180 engine exports to only missions which serve civilian purposes.

    Gass said Monday he was not aware of any order from the Russian government to NPO Energomash, the manufacturer of the RD-180 engine, regarding the engine's export to the United States.

    "Mr. Rogozin's comments were certainly a reaction to some comments that our country made about escalating the next round of sanctions," Gass said.

    There are 16 RD-180 engines currently in the United States. One of the engines will fly on an Atlas 5 rocket launch from Cape Canaveral scheduled for Thursday. Five more engines were due for delivery to the United States the second half of this year, according to Gass, and ULA has already purchased RD-180 engines to cover its commitments to the Pentagon in the Air Force's order of 36 rocket cores last year.

    The 36-core block buy is equivalent to 28 launches because four of the flights will use the Delta 4-Heavy, which is comprised of three first stage rocket cores to boost performance for heavier payloads. Of the 36 rocket cores ordered by the Air Force, Gass said 20 are for the Atlas 5 and 16 are for the Delta 4.

    If the Atlas 5 continued to launch at the same rate as recent years -- assuming no more RD-180 engine imports -- the supply would run out some time in 2016. The Atlas 5 is scheduled to launch U.S. military communications satellites, GPS navigation spacecraft, intelligence-gathering payloads for the National Reconnaissance Office, a NASA lander to Mars, and at least two commercial satellites over that period.

    "We've kept a safety stock of engines in place to help with a smooth transition to move all those payloads to Delta 4 if necessary," Gass said.

    If Rogozin's statements are backed up with actions limiting RD-180 engine exports to support only civil launches, Gass said ULA and its RD-180 contractor, RD AMROSS, would take delivery of the engines anyway and use them on launches for NASA, commercial satellites, and commercial crew spacecraft under development to fly on Atlas 5.

    "In that contingency plan, there will be certain missions that for sure will probably stay on Atlas because they're best configured for Atlas," Gass said. "Ones already dual-integrated on Delta 4 will be the easiest ones to switch. We're working different contingency plans for that."

    The Delta 4 rocket costs more than an Atlas 5 to put the same mass into orbit, requiring strap-on solid rocket boosters to loft a satellite that an Atlas 5 could launch with just its liquid-fueled first and second stages.

    Some larger U.S. military payloads, such as the Navy's Mobile User Objective System communications satellites, would have to upgrade to a $350 million Delta 4-Heavy rocket if they were removed from the Atlas 5 launch manifest.

    Those satellites will likely stay on the Atlas 5, Gass said, using the engines already delivered to the United States.

    Hastening the pace of Delta 4 manufacturing could reduce its cost in the long run, perhaps bringing its price into parity with the Atlas 5, according to Gass.

    "The premise right now in the price sheet is that Delta 4, by similar capability, is more [expensive] than Atlas, but those were prices based on a certain build rate," Gass said. "Now, we're going to accelerate the build rate, and the Delta prices will come down accordingly. How much? We've got to go negotiate how much."

    Gass said ULA did not decide to advance production of the Delta 4 launcher at the request of the Defense Department.

    "United Launch Alliance is committed, first and foremost, to the nation," Gass said. "We hold our commitments, so we're just going to move out and do it. We're not waiting for customers to ask us."

    ULA has already launched discussions with Delta 4 suppliers to move up deliveries.

    "We have material on order with all our suppliers to support the block buy, so [we will] take what we already ordered and just accelerate the production of that, get it earlier and then supplant that with some additional long-lead material to make sure we can sustain a high production rate into the third and fourth years of the block buy contract," Gass said.

    The Delta 4's launch rate since the beginning of 2012 has been approximately one-half of the Atlas 5's.

    If Defense Department payloads are forced to swap rockets to the Delta 4, Gass said ULA's contract with the Air Force allows for flexibility to re-allocate launches between the company's two vehicles.

    But Gass would not say whether ULA or the U.S. government would have to pay the difference if satellites assigned to Atlas 5 end up riding on more expensive Delta 4s.

    Gass said his interpretation of Rogozin's announcement on the RD-180 engine was that the Russian deputy prime minister was discussing Russia's actions in response to U.S. sanctions.

    In a transcript of Rogozin's press conference posted to an official Russian government website, the deputy prime minister said Russia was taking steps to warn its partners in about potential reciprocal action against sanctions.

    "It was a comment that if the United States did something, this is something he may do," Gass said of Rogozin's statement.

    Rogozin and Oleg Ostapenko, head of the Russian Federal Space Agency, raised concerns that restrictions on exports of defense-related products to Russia would disrupt Russian rocket businesses that rely on the international satellite market. Almost all large telecommunications satellites contain components built in the United States and Europe.

    Industry officials forecast little disruption for companies planning launches on Russian rockets this year, at least in terms of export licensing. Russia's Proton rocket is grounded after a May 15 launch failure, forcing customers booked to fly on it to pivot from worrying about political trouble to technical reliability.

    Most satellite export licenses for upcoming missions have already been issued, with no clear sign the U.S. State or Commerce departments plan to revoke them, despite public pronouncements claiming they could.

    RD-180 engines shipped to ULA up to now have been approved for dual-use missions, meaning they can be launched for military or civilian purposes, such as for NASA or a commercial customer.

    "He said some important words that he would hold back for military use, which is just clearly a response to our country's comment about holding back exports for military use," Gass said. "It was truly a quid pro quo comment."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 22.05.2014 03:23:54
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет: 

    А почему вы думаете, что это будет точная копия РД-180 со всеми заморочками? А не что-то "по-мотивам", на основе американской технологической культуры и инженерных традиций. По-проще и по-дешевле.

    Что-то мне думается, что примут решение разрабатывать что-то на основе уменьшенного в два раза F-1. С открытым циклом и одной камерой. А меньший удельный импульс компенсируют за счёт роста тяги на первой ступени.
    Копия решений РД-180 на основе местных традиций называлась RS-84.

    А уменьшать F-1B никто не станет. Дай бог довести как есть силами Динетикса.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: KBOB от 21.05.2014 15:31:59
    ЦитироватьSFN пишет:
    ЦитироватьВВК пишет:
    Как -то не двузначно Спейс Х назвали выскочкой

     


     upstart Перевод из « Англо-русского словаря общей лексики «Lingvo Universal» (http://slovari.yandex.ru/%7E%D0%BA%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B3%D0%B8/%D0%90%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%BE-%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9%20%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C%20%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%89%D0%B5%D0%B9%20%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%20%C2%ABLingvo%20Universal%C2%BB/#lingvo/) » ABBYY Lingvo (http://www.lingvo.ru/)
     1. ;'ʌpstɑːt] сущ. 1) выскочка (http://slovari.yandex.ru/%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%87%D0%BA%D0%B0/ru-en/LingvoUniversal/#lingvo/)
     Синонимы:
     parvenu (http://slovari.yandex.ru/parvenu/en-ru/LingvoUniversal/#lingvo/) , forward pupil (http://slovari.yandex.ru/forward%20pupil/en-ru/LingvoUniversal/#lingvo/) 2) недавно созданная компания
     3. [ʌ'pstɑːt] прил. ; амер. ; пренебр. быстро достигший успеха ( о человеке, компании, фирме )
     

     
    А чем upstart отличается от startup?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 22.05.2014 00:28:54
    Так же как столица Кампучии (Пномпень) от студента-заочника ("пень пнём")  ;)   :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 22.05.2014 12:34:19
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Копия решений РД-180 на основе местных традиций называлась RS-84.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 05.06.2014 08:04:45
    Статья из июльского выпуска журнала AIR FORCE Magazine June 2014 (Vol. 97, No. 6), 
    (печатный орган Ассоциации Американских ВВС   ;)  ).   
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44243)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44239)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44238)
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44241)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44244)
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44240)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/44242)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 06.06.2014 04:40:56
    Вот он какой, Военно-Промышленны Комплекс. Друг друга гладят по спинке.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 05.06.2014 22:06:02
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Вот он какой, Военно-Промышленны Комплекс. Друг друга гладят по спинке.
    Только так можно победить в неравной битве за казенные денежки.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 01.08.2014 07:38:40
    Статья Marc Selinger "RD-180: Learning to let go" из июльскo-августовского выпуска журнала Aerospace America (2014), стр. 28-30
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/46831)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/46832)(https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/46830)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 07.08.2014 01:08:29
    http://spacenews.com/article/military-space/41507notwithstanding-sanctions-ula-standing-by-for-rd-180-deliveries-through
    ЦитироватьNotwithstanding Sanctions, ULA Standing By for RD-180 Deliveries through 2017
    By Dan Leone | Aug. 6, 2014
    (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/Engines_ULA4X3.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/Engines_ULA4X3.jpg)
    Mark Peller, director of the hardware value stream for ULA, said ULA signed a contract earlier this year with RD-180 reseller RD Amross, a joint venture of the engine's Moscow-area manufacturer, NPO Energomash, and United Technologies Corp. of Hartford, Connecticut, that calls for delivery of 29 engines through 2017. Credit: ULA photo

    SAN DIEGO — Economic sanctions the United States and Europe levied against the Russian government in July following the downing of a passenger jet by what U.S. authorities say was a Russian missile operated by Ukrainian separatists will not disrupt the flow of Russian-made RD-180 rocket engines to United Launch Alliance, a company executive said here Aug. 5.
    "At our level, it's business as usual," Mark Peller, director of the hardware value stream for Denver-based ULA, said here in a panel presentation at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' Space 2014 conference.
    Peller said ULA signed a contract earlier this year with RD-180 reseller RD Amross, a joint venture of the engine's Moscow-area manufacturer, NPO Energomash, and United Technologies Corp. of Hartford, Connecticut, that calls for delivery of 29 engines through 2017.
    ULA, a joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin, expects to take delivery of the first two engines from that batch Aug. 20, Peller said. Three more would follow in October. Energomash would ship eight engines a year from 2015 through 2017, Peller said.
    The RD-180 powers the main stage of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which along with the company's Delta 4 rocket launches the vast majority of U.S. national security spacecraft. The Lockheed Martin-designed Atlas 5 also launches all but the smallest science missions for NASA.
    Washington imposed an initial round of economic sanctions against Russia after that country annexed Ukraine's Crimean peninsula in March. The move prompted Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's deputy prime minister, to threaten a ban on any RD-180 sales connected with U.S. military launches.
    Rogozin, who has mocked the United States on Twitter, may have softened his position.
    According to a July 21 story from Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency, Rogozin said "[P]resently, the sale of engines [to the U.S.] benefits our engine-making enterprises in that they use the money for their own modernisation."
    Rogozin added, according to the story, "[w]e need the most modern engines that produce more thrust. In order to design them, we need free money. This is why we are prepared to sell them."
    Peller said recent ULA visits to Russia might have had something to do with the deputy prime minister's apparent change of heart.
    "Our counterparts at NPO Energomash have talked to Mr. Rogozin directly and made him aware of the significance of our business arrangement," Peller said.
    The prospect of losing access to the RD-180 has spurred the U.S. government to consider a range of alternatives, including developing a domestic alternative or increasing production of the Boeing-designed Delta 4.
    Aerojet Rockedyne of Sacramento, California, says it has designed an alternative that could be flight ready in four years for an investment of less than $1 billion.
    The White House, which as recently as 2011 wanted NASA to deal with producing a high-thrust, closed-loop kerosene engine like the RD-180, has asked Congress to provide some $40 million in 2014 for the Defense Department to begin work on such a rocket engine. The House version of the 2015 defense appropriations bill includes $220 million for the effort next year, while a Senate committee's version recommends $25 million.
     
    Follow Peter on Twitter: @Leone_SN (http://twitter.com/Leone_SN)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.09.2014 08:00:15
    http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41884ula-and-blue-origin-to-team-up-for-rd-180-replacement
    ЦитироватьULA and Blue Origin To Team Up for RD-180 Replacement
     
    By Mike Gruss | Sep. 16, 2014
    (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/JeffBezos_SteveJurvetson4X3.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/JeffBezos_SteveJurvetson4X3.jpg)
    Jeff Bezos (above), the founder of Blue Origin and Amazon.com, and Tory Bruno, the new chief executive of United Launch Alliance, will announce a strategic partnership between Blue Origin and ULA at a Sept. 17 event in Washington. Credit: Photo by Steve Jurvetson
     
    NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. —  United Launch Alliance, which launches nearly all U.S. government satellites, and secretive rocket-making startup Blue Origin will announce a strategic partnership in rocket engine development at a Sept. 17 event in Washington, a source said Sept. 16.
    The announcement will be made at the National Press Club by Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon.com and Blue Origin, and ULA Chief Executive Tony Bruno, the source said.
     
    The companies announced late in the afternoon of Sept. 16 that Bezos and Bruno would be making an unspecified joint announcement at 12:30 p.m. local time.
    The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the announcement would position ULA to develop an engine with Blue Origin to potentially replace the Russian-made RD-180, which currently powers ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket but faces an uncertain future as tensions with Russia rise. 
    The move would automatically ins ert a second dynamic personality from the dot-com world into the national security launch debate. Bezos would effectively join ULA's side in a fierce battle against Elon Musk's Space Exploration Technologies Corp., which has been fighting for a share of Pentagon business with a rocket dubbed the Falcon 9. 
    News of a ULA-Blue Origin propulsion partnership  follows a report in the Wall Street Journal that Blue Origin is part of Boeing's bid to launch crew to the international space station. NASA is expected to announce the winners of its commercial crew competition the afternoon of Sept. 16. Boeing, one of at least three companies bidding for NASA's Commercial Crew Transportation Capability contracts, has proposed launching its CST-100 capsule atop a ULA Atlas 5 rocket.
    ULA has been searching for a new engine after increased pressure from lawmakers and Air Force officials about the RD-180 engine, built by NPO Energomash of Russia and sold to ULA by RD-Amross, a joint venture between Energomash and United Technologies Corp.
    Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister of Russia, who oversees the country's space sector, has threatened to ban the sale of the engines to the United States for military use (http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/40547rogozin-calls-for-ban-on-us-military-use-of-rd-180), although Air Force and ULA officials have seen no signs of a ban.
    Blue Origin, the Kent, Washington, firm bankrolled by Bezos, has told industry and government officials privately that the Air Force should consider a liquid-oxygen/methane engine.
    In June, Michael Gass, the former ULA chief executive, announced it had signed "multiple" contracts with unidentified companies to study potential replacements for the RD-180, and hopes to sele ct a single concept for development this year. Among those companies, sources have said, is Aerojet Rocketdyne. The Sacramento, California-based company is the dominant U.S. supplier of large liquid-fueled rocket engines.
    The selected companies were asked to study technical feasibility of hydrocarbon-fueled engine concepts, and lay out schedules along with cost estimates and technical risks, Gass said.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne has been pushing a kerosene-fueled, 500,000-pound-thrust concept dubbed AR-1, which the company says could be fully developed in four years for less than $1 billion.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 18.09.2014 01:40:40
    http://spacenews.com/article/launch-report/41901ula-to-invest-in-blue-origin-engine-as-rd-180-replacement-for-atlas-5
    ЦитироватьULA To Invest in Blue Origin Engine as RD-180 Replacement for Atlas 5
    By Warren Ferster | Sep. 17, 2014
    (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/styles/large/public/images/articles/image_2.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/sites/spacenews.com/files/images/articles/image_2.jpg)
    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno and Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos brief reporters Sept. 17 on a joint effort to develop a replacement for the Atlas 5 rocket's RD-180 main-stage engine. Credit: SpaceNews photo by Brian Berger
     
    WASHINGTON — U.S. government launch services provider United Launch Alliance will pay Blue Origin, the secretive rocket-making venture led by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, an unspecified sum to complete development of a new engine that will replace the Russian-made RD-180 that powers the first stage of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, the companies announced Sept. 17.
    Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, has been developing the BE-4 for three years, thus giving it a head start against other prospective RD-180 replacements, ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno said at a press conference here. Fueled by liquefied natural gas, the new engine will be relatively inexpensive and could be ready to start flying in four years, he said.
    Спойлер
    Bruno said developing a new engine typically takes seven to 10 years and costs $1 billion.
    Bezos said during the press conference that the BE-4, which will generate about 550,000 pounds of thrust, is based on the BE-3 that powers Blue Origin's New Shepard, an experimental suborbital rocket that takes off and lands vertically. In addition to the Atlas 5, the new engine also would be used for a future reusable orbital launcher Blue Origin plans to develop, he said.
    Two BE-4 engines generating a combined 1.1 million pounds of thrust at sea level would power the Atlas 5 first stage, Bruno said. The current Atlas 5 first stage is powered by a single RD-180 generating close to 1 million pounds of thrust.
    Neither Bezos nor Bruno would quantify ULA's investment but both described it as significant.
    The future availability of the RD-180 has been in question since early this year, when Russia's annexation of Crimea led to Western sanctions that in turn prompted Russian officials to threaten a ban on exports of the engine for U.S. military use. Although RD-180 deliveries have continued, officials with ULA and its primary customer, the U.S. government, have been developing contingency plans in case of a cutoff.
    The Atlas 5 is used, along with ULA's Delta 4, to launch most U.S. government satellites, including virtually all national security missions. The Atlas 5 also will be used to launch the CST-100 spacecraft being developed by Houston-based Boeing Space Exploration, one of two NASA-funded capsules that will be used to ferry crews to and from the international space station starting as early as 2017.
    Blue Origin is a partner on the CST-100, Bezos said, declining to provide specifics.
    In June, ULA announced that it had signed contracts with multiple unspecified companies to study alternatives to the RD-180. The company, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, declined to identify any of the contract recipients but said a first launch of the new engine was targeted for 2019.
    Bruno said the BE-4 came out as the winner in that competition.
    Among the other study contract recipients was Aerojet Rocketdyne of Sacramento, California, which has been touting a liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled engine dubbed the AR-1 as an RD-180 replacement. Officials with Aerojet Rocketdyne, the largest and most experienced U.S. manufacturer of liquid-fueled rocket engines, said the AR-1 will be capable of generating 500,000 pounds of thrust and could be ready to fly by 2019 for an investment of less than $1 billion.
    Congress, meanwhile, has proposed spending as much as $220 million next year to begin work on a new engine.
    The ULA-Blue Origin announcement would appear to cast a cloud over Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 plans.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne spokesman Glenn Mahone said the company is aware of the announcement but remains committed to meeting the future propulsion needs of the nation.
    "To demonstrate this commitment, Aerojet Rocketdyne announced Sept. 16 the establishment of our advanced hydrocarbon propulsion development office in Huntsville, Alabama," Mahone said. "Rapid development and certification of Aerojet's AR-1 and all U.S. designed, developed and produced advanced hydrocarbon engines manufactured to power America's current and future national security launch vehicles is a key focus of the new Huntsville office.
    "The AR-1 will provide both our government and commercial customers an affordable, world-class innovative engine as well as the reliability which is synonymous with Aerojet Rocketdye propulsion systems."
    Bruno and Bezos said that should the U.S. government choose to help fund development of the BE-4, such assistance would be welcome.
    Bruno said that ULA's decision to invest in a new engine was driven in part by the uncertainty surrounding the RD-180 but more by what he sees as a need for a modern, U.S.-built rocket main engine.
    The BE-4 will be designed and built entirely in the United States using the latest techniques, including advanced computerized simulation and additive manufacturing, Bezos said. The result will be a high-performance engine that is developed quickly and at a relatively low cost, he said.
    The reason for Blue Origin's choice of liquefied natural gas over kerosene as the engine's propellant was driven by cost and reusability considerations, Bezos said. Liquefied natural gas, which is similar to methane, is cheaper than rocket-grade kerosene and leaves less burn residue, making the engine easier to refurbish and reuse, he said.

     Follow Warren on Twitter: @Ferster_SN (http://twitter.com/Ferster_SN)
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 18.09.2014 01:45:28
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Вот фото масштабной модели BE-4 с сегодняшней презентации с Юлой:
     https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/512295387106131969

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/156386.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: rain от 19.11.2014 14:48:24
    Интересные подробности кхм... "международного сотрудничества" всплывают:


    Цитировать(Reuters) - For months, a powerful U.S. senator has been pushing for details of a murky deal under which a Russian manufacturer supplies the rocket engines used to launch America's spy satellites into space.
    At issue: how much the U.S. Air Force pays for the engines, how much the Russians receive, and whether members of the elite in President Vladimir Putin's Russia are secretly profiting by inflating the price.
    Now, documents uncovered by Reuters provide some answers. A tiny Florida-based company, acting as a middleman in the deal, is marking up the price by millions of dollars per engine.
    That five-person company, RD Amross, is a joint venture of Russian engine maker NPO Energomash and a U.S. partner, aerospace giant United Technologies. According to internal company documents that lay out the contract, Amross stands to collect $93 million in cost mark-ups under its current multi-year deal to supply the RD-180 rocket engine.
    Those charges are being added to the program despite a 2011 Pentagon audit that contested a similar, earlier contract with Amross. That deal would have allowed Amross to receive about $80 million in "profit" mark-ups and overhead expenses on RD-180 engines, government documents show.
    RD Amross покупает двигатели «Энергомаша» за $20,2 млн каждый, следует из договора с «Энергомашем» от 5 июня 2014 г. Затем добавляет к цене каждого $3,2 млн, или 15%, и продает их ULA за $23,4 млн в соответствии с поправкой к контракту Amross с ULA от 2 октября 2014 г. Фирма из 5 человек, с офисом на флоридском пляже.  8)  


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/18/us-russia-capitalism-rockets-special-rep-idUSKCN0J22BQ20141118
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 20.11.2014 17:26:25
    ЦитироватьXCOR Aerospace today announced it has completed the latest test series for the liquid hydrogen engine it is developing for United Launch Alliance (ULA). This is an important milestone in the long-running LH2 (liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen) program. It is also a step toward running the engine in a fully closed cycle mode.

    In its most recent milestone, XCOR successfully performed hot fire testing of the XR-5H25 engine's regeneratively cooled thrust chamber, with both liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen propellants supplied in pump-fed mode, using XCOR's proprietary piston pump technology.

    "This test marks the first time liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen have been supplied to a rocket engine with a piston pump," says XCOR Chief Executive Officer Jeff Greason. "It is also the first time an American LH2 engine of this size has successfully fired liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen together in pump-fed mode. We are happy to be making solid progress on the engines. This will also bring us to a new phase in our plans for orbital flight."  

    "ULA has an ongoing effort to develop rocket engines for our next generation upper stage, and we are thrilled to see that progress continuing with XCOR," added ULA Vice President George Sowers.

    Upcoming test series will fully integrate the nozzle with the engine and piston pumps. Fully closed cycle testing will follow soon afterwards and will complete the sub-scale demonstration engine program.

    The XR-5H25 engines are being developed under contract to ULA as potential successors to the Delta and Atlas series upper stage engines currently used. These engines will also help power orbital launches.
    http://www.xcor.com/press/2014/14-11-20_XCOR_announces_ULA_milestone.html
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 20.11.2014 17:32:22
    Цитироватьand whether members of the elite in President Vladimir Putin's Russia are secretly profiting by inflating the price
    Бугога.. На такую-то мелочь размениваться :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 20.11.2014 19:16:28
    Очень серьезные обвинения.

    Насколько же предыдущая оценка цены РД180 "$11-15 млн" не совпадает с новой "$23,4 млн". Видимо, это изменения цены несколько лет назад.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex D от 20.11.2014 19:05:22
    Только вопрос - эта "добавленная стоимость" в $3 млн это чисто профит, или всё-таки Амросс занимается непосредственно логистикой двигателей с Энергомаша, где ~$20 млн - стоимость РД-180 на выходе с завода? Перевозка такого груза тоже весьма недёшева, хоть конечно и не $3 млн.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 20.11.2014 19:11:25
    ЦитироватьAlex D пишет:
    Только вопрос - эта "добавленная стоимость" в $3 млн это чисто профит, или всё-таки Амросс занимается непосредственно логистикой двигателей с Энергомаша, где ~$20 млн - стоимость РД-180 на выходе с завода? Перевозка такого груза тоже весьма недёшева, хоть конечно и не $3 млн.

    http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/36172201/na-prodazhe-rossijskih-raketnyh-dvigatelej-rd-180-pentagonu
    ЦитироватьReuters ссылается на конфиденциальный отчет аудиторов за 2011 г., из которого следует, что Amross была посредником при поставке двигателей и если и выполняла некоторые работы, то «незначительные».
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: rain от 21.11.2014 04:47:26
    Ну логично, что компашка в 5 человек с офисом в одном маленьком здании напополам с массажистами и стоматолагами (это из отчета  :) ) врят-ли может заниматся какой-нибудь серьезной поддержкой. Максимум - оформление растаможки. Стоит ли это 3 ляма - вопрос риторический.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 23.11.2014 03:50:30
    XCOR Aerospace Announces Latest Milestone in ULA Program (http://www.parabolicarc.com/2014/11/20/xcor-aerospace-announces-latest-milestone-ula-program/)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: max_schmurz от 16.01.2015 16:44:16
    Достижения и ближайшие планы ULA:

    (http://i072.radikal.ru/1501/61/02a4ab0ada95.jpg)
    p.s. Подписи к фотографиям и картинкам - из Wikipedia.
    p.p.s. Относительно NROL-55, в Вики и у Г.Кребса указана РН Atlas V 401, но на фото видны 2 ТТУ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 30.01.2015 21:38:10
    http://spacenews.com/the-competition-that-wasnt-nro-launch-added-to-existing-ula-contract/
    ЦитироватьThe Competition that Wasn't: NRO Launch Swept into ULA Block Buy
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — January 29, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155368.jpg)
    Launch of NROL-35 from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California. Credit: ULA
     
    WASHINGTON – A highly anticipated U.S. Air Force launch contract – once thought to be SpaceX's first chance to break into the national security launch market – has instead been added to the service's existing $11 billion deal with United Launch Alliance.
    The Air Force on Jan. 28 formally canceled a six-month-old competition to launch a payload for the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office, operator of the nation's spy satellites, according to the Federal Business Opportunities website. Bids for that mission, known as NROL-79, were due in August, and the contest was widely viewed as a two-horse race between longtime incumbent ULA and relative newcomer SpaceX.
    About an hour after canceling the bid solicitation, the Pentagon announced a $382 million modification to ULA's block buy contract. The modification covered three national security launches and included an Atlas 5 rocket for the NRO.
    "Canceling the [request for proposal] was determined to be in the best interest of the Government," said Capt. Chris Hoyler, an Air Force spokesman.
    Hoyler confirmed the newly assigned launches were subsumed under ULA's block buy contract and do not add to the Air Force's original order of 36 Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rocket cores.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155336.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/438123-spacex-falcon-9-orbcomm-launch-credit-spacex.jpg)
    SpaceX, whose Falcon 9 rocket has yet to earn the necessary certification to launch U.S. national security missions, had given strong indications of interest in launching the NRO mission but never confirmed that it actually bid. Credit: SpaceX

    The Air Force awarded the sole-source contract to its longtime monopoly launch provider, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, in 2013 as part of a plan bring down its soaring launch costs, which had become a lightning rod for criticism. The idea was to benefit from economies of scale even as the Air Force introduced competition into its Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle by putting seven or eight missions up for bid, beginning with the NRO payload.
    Industry sources said earlier in January that the NRO contract award was imminent, but there had been indications of late that it might be delayed.
    Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, whose Falcon 9 rocket has yet to earn the necessary certification to launch U.S. national security missions, had given strong indications of interest in launching the NRO mission but never confirmed that it actually bid.  The Air Force had expected to certify the vehicle before the end of 2014 but recently conceded that the certification might take until as late as mid-2015, a delay that triggered an independent review of the service's processes.
    Denver-based ULA thus remains the only company authorized to launch operational U.S. national security satellites, at least for now.
    SpaceX in January dropped its lawsuit, filed in April, challenging ULA's block buy contract after the Air Force apparently agreed to put more launch contracts up for bid. The details of the settlement have not been made public and it is not clear whether the NRO mission was involved.
    Although it did not confirm bidding on the NRO mission, SpaceX did submit questions about the competition to the Air Force, including one asking whether ULA would reimburse the government for some costs if it won the contract. ULA receives two EELV funding streams, including one that covers certain overhead costs, a portion of which the company repays the government for missions conducted outside the EELV contract structure.
    SpaceX has long argued that the Air Force's so-called EELV Launch Capability payments to ULA, amounting to nearly $1 billion annually, are a subsidy that could allow the company to offer artifically low prices for competitively awarded missions.
    In its response, the Air Force said NROL-79 launch contract would be a stand-alone contract with no "interdependency" with other Defense Department missions, according to acquisition documents.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 18:47:54
    http://spacenews.com/timing-of-russian-engine-ban-puts-ula-air-force-in-a-bind/
    ЦитироватьTiming of Russian Engine Ban Puts ULA, Air Force, in a Bind
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — February 27, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155408.jpg)"You're looking at six years, maybe seven years to develop an engine and another year or two beyond that to integrate," Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said in response to questioning from Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.). Credit: U.S. Air Force/Jim Varhegyi
     
    WASHINGTON — The new U.S. law barring the Air Force from using Russian-made rocket engines starting in 2019 could force the Defense Department's primary launch services provider to battle for future military business with its least competitive product.
    Although Congress provided money for the Air Force to start work on a new U.S.-built main engine this year, service officials are doubtful that it will be ready by 2019. Even if it is, which industry officials argue is possible, the engine would still have to be certified by the Air Force to carry national security payloads, a process that one executive said could take more than two years.
    That scenario would leave United Launch Alliance, which since its 2006 formation has had a monopoly in the national security market, in a weak competitive position relative to its rising nemesis, SpaceX. The Hawthorne, California-based company is on the verge of earning certification for its low-cost Falcon 9 rocket and also hopes to demonstrate a heavy-lift launcher this year.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155346.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Delta4Transport_LM4X3.jpg)
    ULA's other main rocket, the Delta 4, uses an American-made engine, unlike the Atlas 5, which uses the Russian-made RD-180. Credit: Lockheed Martin

    The problem for ULA, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, is that its lowest-cost rocket, the Atlas 5, is powered by the Russian-built RD-180 engine that is the primary target of the congressionally imposed ban. ULA's other main rocket, the Delta 4, is powered by an American-made engine and is technically capable of launching all of the satellites on the Defense Department manifest. But in addition to being far more expensive than the Atlas 5, the Delta 4 is often viewed as an inferior rocket.
    "There may not be much of a competition if [the Atlas 5] is not available to be a part of it," Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James told reporters Feb. 25 after testifying before Congress. "The question is, would [Delta 4] be cost effective? If it's not, then I fear that we would inadvertently be trading one monopoly ... for a new monopoly — and I don't think anybody wants that to happen."
    The issue is a provision in the National Defense Authorization Act for 2015 mandating that the Air Force stop using Russian-made rocket engines by 2019. The language is rooted in escalating tensions between the United States and Russia over the crisis in Ukraine.
    Concern about the law's implications were at the forefront of the hearing of the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee, during which James said the presumed 2019 delivery date for a new engine was probably not feasible.
    "You're looking at six years, maybe seven years to develop an engine and another year or two beyond that to integrate," James said in response to questioning from Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.). "This truly is rocket science. These are hard technical problems and so to have that 2019 date there is pretty aggressive and I'm not sure we can make it. I turn to my technical experts. That's what they tell us."
    James' comments echoed similar assessments by Air Force Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, who has alternately called the timetable "challenging" and "aggressive."
    Congress provided $220 million to begin work on a new main engine this year, and the Air Force has budgeted more than $500 million for the effort over six years. However, experts have said developing a new main rocket engine will cost at least $1 billion.
    For their part, senior industry officials are more confident in their ability to deliver a new main engine by 2019. Two engine candidates under consideration by Denver-based ULA are the BE-4, which is being developed by Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, in partnership with ULA, and the AR-1 proposed by Aerojet Rocketdyne.
    Tory Bruno, ULA's president and chief executive, said via Twitter Feb. 25 that the BE-4, ULA's primary choice of RD-180 replacement, is on schedule for a 2019 first flight, but acknowledged certification of a new rocket would take until 2022 or 2023. Unlike the kerosene-fueled RD-180, the BE-4 is fueled by liquid-natural gas, which means it cannot be readily integrated into the existing Atlas 5 core structure.
    ЦитироватьAvron Perlmann @Avron_p

    @torybruno @John_Gardi @LAUNCHULA @OrbitalATK when will we see hardware?

    Tory Bruno @torybruno

    @Avron_p @John_Gardi @LAUNCHULA @OrbitalATK Our Next Gen rocket makes her maiden flight in 2019
    3:27 PM - 25 Feb 2015
    Bruno said that the kerosene-fueled AR-1, which ULA views as a backup option, is about one to two years behind the BE-4. ULA expects to make a final decision on which of the two engines to pursue in 2016 or 2017, Bruno said.
    "The existing law leaves us no flexibility," Bruno said in a separate tweet.
    Linda Cova, executive director of hydrocarbon engine programs at Sacramento, California-based Aerojet Rocketdyne, said "2019 is a feasible date" for delivering the AR-1, whose development to date has been funded by a combination of company and government programs. However, Aerojet Rocketdyne officials have said the engine would cost in the neighborhood of $1 billion to field.
    What the AR-1 has going for it is its similarity to the RD-180, including common interfaces, which means its engineers might be able to plug it into the back end of the existing Atlas 5 core structure, Cova said in a Feb. 26 interview. That, in turn, could simplify the certification process.
    The Air Force in 2013 awarded ULA an $11 billion sole-source contract for Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets that runs through 2019. The RD-180s ordered as part of this contract are exempt from the authorization legislation.
    Nonetheless, there appears to be some confusion over the reach of the congressionally imposed RD-180 ban. During the hearing, Shelby raised questions about exactly which engines would be grandfathered under the new law.
    James said she would welcome a clarification from Congress on the law's scope and well as an "adjustment" to its 2019 deadline.
    Mark Wright, a Pentagon spokesman, said a legal review of the provision is underway.
    The legislation does allow for a waiver process for national security missions "if space launch services cannot be obtained at a fair and reasonable price without the use of the Russian RD-180 engines."
    ULA says it is evaluating a proposal to purchase as many as 30 more RD-180 engines — beyond what it needs to fulfill the needs of the block buy contract — that the company says will be used in part for future commercial missions.
    SpaceX, meanwhile, builds its Merlin engine — nine of which power the first stage of the Falcon 9 — in house. "These engines are made by American workers here in the U.S.," SpaceX spokesman John Taylor said via email Feb. 26. "SpaceX stands ready today to solve the problem of continued reliance on Russian-made engines."
    SpaceX is developing a more-powerful engine dubbed Raptor that is designed to generate more than 661,000 pounds of thrust in a vacuum. That engine began testing at NASA's Stennis Space Center in Mississippi last year.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 18:54:05
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/570941890792722432
    ЦитироватьAaron Mehta ‏@AaronMehta 25 февр.
    @torybruno Tory, any comment on Sec James concern that an RD180 replacement will not be ready by 2019? Can ULA/Blue meet that target?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    .@AaronMehta Not sure I did your question justice now that I have read the Sen Shelby/Sec James transcript. I'll give a more complete ans

    5:42 - 26 февр. 2015 г.

     Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta We need AT LEAST 29 engines to make it to the BE4 American Engine, if nothing goes wrong. More to make it to AR1.

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta 1608's intent is 29 RD180s. Legal debate has emerged on language. Some argue the number is only 5. Hence Shelby's question

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta Limit of less than 29 leaves both a gap in NSS capability and a period with only one provider (not ULA). Hence the Sec's resp.

    Aaron Mehta ‏@AaronMehta 26 февр.
    @torybruno interesting. Thanks for the follow up. Who is arguing the "only 5" case? Hadn't heard that before.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 19:01:03
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/570942341361459200
    ЦитироватьAaron Mehta ‏@AaronMehta 25 февр.
    @torybruno Tory, any comment on Sec James concern that an RD180 replacement will not be ready by 2019? Can ULA/Blue meet that target?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta Not sure I did your question justice now that I have read the Sen Shelby/Sec James transcript. I'll give a more complete ans

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    .@AaronMehta We need AT LEAST 29 engines to make it to the BE4 American Engine, if nothing goes wrong. More to make it to AR1.

     5:43 - 26 февр. 2015 г.


     Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta 1608's intent is 29 RD180s. Legal debate has emerged on language. Some argue the number is only 5. Hence Shelby's question

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta Limit of less than 29 leaves both a gap in NSS capability and a period with only one provider (not ULA). Hence the Sec's resp.

    Aaron Mehta ‏@AaronMehta 26 февр.
    @torybruno interesting. Thanks for the follow up. Who is arguing the "only 5" case? Hadn't heard that before.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 19:03:21
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/570946962863706112
    ЦитироватьAvron Perlmann ‏@Avron_p 26 февр.
    @torybruno why not look at an engine from India, they ain't invading anyone right now?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @Avron_p We looked at every existing and imagined Engine, including an all solids solution. BE4 and AR1 the fastest that are suitable

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    .@Avron_p Both the Sen and the Sec are correct in their understanding. The issue is in work. I am confident a solution will emerge soon
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 22:56:06
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/571000704325677056
    ЦитироватьTory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    Several questions about American Engine schedule. BE4 First flight in 2019. Certified for NSS in 2022-2023
    9:35 - 26 февр. 2015 г.


        Lars Osborne ‏@lars_0 26 февр.
    @torybruno @jeff_foust Will this new rocket use an RL-10?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @torybruno If we end up on the back engine, AR1, 1 to 2 years later

    Michal Scienski ‏@mscienski 26 февр.
    @torybruno Will ULA continue to support work on AR1 if BE4 is ready on time?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @mscienski No. I expect to downselect NLT 2016 or 2017. Can't afford to carry both all the way

    Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN 26 февр.
    @torybruno Where does Delta4 fit into the discussion? Wouldn't it still be available for missions in 2019-2022 and meet reqts?

    Doug Mohney ‏@DougonTech 26 февр.
    @torybruno When do you provision pads for methane fueling under that timeline? Some infrastructure change/add for BE4, yes?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @DougonTech Don't know timing yet because pad trades not done. Yes, Infrastructure and booster mods required for methane.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 23:00:31
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/571009932100706305
    ЦитироватьTory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    .@AaronMehta Just read your story. Clarification: BE4 flight in 2019, if all goes well. Certified for NSS 2022-2023. AR1 1 - 2 yrs later

    10:12 - 26 февр. 2015 г.

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    .@AaronMehta and, the Sec is correct, Rocket development is hard and does not always go as planned.

    Aaron Mehta ‏@AaronMehta 26 февр.
    @torybruno thanks Tory. Will update later today. Appreciate the clarification.

    Lukas ‏@lukealization 26 февр.
    @torybruno your stance on solids as part of the NGLS design? BE4 engine(s) only or augmented by SRBs?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @lukealization No spoilers. Will show the architecture at Space Symposium
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 23:04:19
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/571021767092805634
    ЦитироватьTory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    More questions about American Engine schedule: No, we cannot realistically accelerate certification to 2019. 2022-23 already has risk
    10:59 - 26 февр. 2015 г.

    Pat Host ‏@Pat_DefDaily 26 февр.
    @torybruno are you talking about BE-1?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @Pat_DefDaily BE4

    Pat Host ‏@Pat_DefDaily 26 февр.
    @torybruno thanks

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @Pat_DefDaily Blue Origin's BE4 is our baseline. Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 is our back-up

    Znapel ‏@Znapel 26 февр.
    @torybruno What connection is there (if any) between ULA and USAF engine plans? They pay for an AV engine, whilst you work on NGLS?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @Znapel ULA and our partners are currently funding BE4 and AR1. Cong provided funds for Amer Eng. USAF studying how to best use the $s
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.02.2015 23:23:04
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/571065308108103680
    ЦитироватьTory Bruno ‏@torybruno
    Developing an American engine by 2019, cert in 2022-23, is an aggressive schedule. The existing law leaves us no flexibility

    13:52 - 26 февр. 2015 г.


    Richard Penn ‏@RichardFPenn 26 февр.
    @torybruno Musk has a design. Licence it.

    Sergei Korolev ‏@ClassAware 26 февр.
    @RichardFPenn @torybruno Why would Musk help his competition? :P

    Richard Penn ‏@RichardFPenn 26 февр.
    @ClassAware @torybruno For the sake of the Western World? So we're not handing cash and credence to Putin?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 26 февр.
    @RichardFPenn Major mods to accept any new engine, even if it was suitable

    Dean Ripley ‏@deanMACHINE65 26 февр.
    @RichardFPenn @torybruno IIRC, SpaceX doesn't patent technology ("trade secret"). License probably wouldn't happen.

    Richard Penn ‏@RichardFPenn 26 февр
    @torybruno Eight years worth of them? Eight whole years?

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 27 февр.
    @RichardFPenn 7 to 10 years is pretty common for a new engine development. Once developed, it must be integrated, flown and certified

    Stephen Basile ‏@stephenb 20 ч 20 часов назад
    @torybruno @RichardFPenn Could the SpaceX Merlin act as a stopgap until the new American Engine is done? Assuming they are willing of course

    Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno 6 ч 6 часов назад
    @stephenb @RichardFPenn No, the configuration and thrust level are not compatible with Atlas V
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Безумный Шляпник от 04.03.2015 02:25:05
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).

    http://spacenews.com/ula-targets-2018-for-delta-4-phase-out-seeks-relaxation-of-rd-180-ban/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 04.03.2015 11:30:18
    ЦитироватьБезумный Шляпник пишет:
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).

     http://spacenews.com/ula-targets-2018-for-delta-4-phase-out-seeks-relaxation-of-rd-180-ban/
    А ничего им будет поддерживать все тех. цепочки производства и инфраструктуру Дельты ради пуска одной "хэви" в год?  Мне кажется, по цене это будет как SLS запускать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Настоящий Искандер от 04.03.2015 01:51:54
    это невидимая рука рынка расставляет всех по местам
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 04.03.2015 10:26:42
    ЦитироватьSam Grey пишет:
    ЦитироватьБезумный Шляпник пишет:
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).

     http://spacenews.com/ula-targets-2018-for-delta-4-phase-out-seeks-relaxation-of-rd-180-ban/
    А ничего им будет поддерживать все тех. цепочки производства и инфраструктуру Дельты ради пуска одной "хэви" в год? Мне кажется, по цене это будет как SLS запускать.
    Возможно они заранее сделают какое-то количество хэви дельт лет на 5 вперед, а потом все это производство и тд переведут на NGLS.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 10:43:38
    ЦитироватьБезумный Шляпник пишет:
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).
    Этого и стоило ожидать. Тяжелая "Дельта" тоже уйдет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Антон от 04.03.2015 11:31:28
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    ЦитироватьБезумный Шляпник пишет:
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).
    Этого и стоило ожидать. Тяжелая "Дельта" тоже уйдет.
    Нет, она будет жить, у Юлы нет для неё замены
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 04.03.2015 11:38:46
    ЦитироватьАнтон пишет:
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    ЦитироватьБезумный Шляпник пишет:
    ULA планирует с 2018 года отказаться от РН "Дельта-4" (кроме тяжелого варианта ХевиДельта).
    Этого и стоило ожидать. Тяжелая "Дельта" тоже уйдет.
    Нет, она будет жить, у Юлы нет для неё замены
    Так это сейчас нет. NGLS будет мощнее Атласа и Дельты и возможно заменит тяжелую дельту даже в варианте с ТТУ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 04.03.2015 12:03:53
    А с двигателем RS-68 что будет? 
    Для SLS, если он состоится, при той частоте пусков раз в три года запасов SSME хватит на много лет...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 13:03:29
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    А с двигателем RS-68 что будет?
    Закроют, как и "Дельту". При успехе FH ей замена от Юлы не понадобится.

    А вообще бесславное окончание. Заказ на нее был выдан в 1989 году, первый полет в 2002-м, закрытие в 2018-м. Время активного существования всего 16 лет, примерно равного времени разработки. Единственное достоинство - полеты без аварий. Но сегодня этого уже мало, стали смотреть на ценники, да и конкуренция выросла.

    Также стоит отметить, что ничего выдающегося РН "Дельта-4" не выводили, кроме экспериментального "Ориона", единственного гражданского заказчика для тяжелой "Дельты".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 04.03.2015 12:13:19
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет: 

    А вообще бесславное окончание. Заказ на нее был выдан в 1989 году, первый полет в 2002-м, закрытие в 2018-м. Время активного существования всего 16 лет, примерно равного времени разработки. Единственное достоинство - полеты без аварий. Но сегодня этого уже мало, стали смотреть на ценники, да и конкуренция выросла.
    Программа EELV началась в 1994 г. с формирования требований к СВ. Проектирование началось осенью 1995 г.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 13:16:16
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Программа EELV началась в 1994 г. с формирования требований к СВ. Проектирование началось осенью 1995 г.
    Запросы по обзору новых средств выведения ВВС выдали еще в 1989, из которых получились "развитые носители". В 1989 году никто не знал, что делать. ВВС заказали видение и из "Дельты-4" получился пшик на водороде, самом дорогом топливе.

    Одной из целью программы EELV было снижение стоимости РН. Также это был ответ на гибель "Челленджера". ВВС хотело гарантировать себе доступ в космос, в чем их НАСА подвело.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 04.03.2015 14:43:54
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    Также стоит отметить, что ничего выдающегося РН "Дельта-4" не выводили, кроме экспериментального "Ориона", единственного гражданского заказчика для тяжелой "Дельты".
    О да. Всего лишь обычные такие спутники за $2 млрд... :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 04.03.2015 11:18:14
    Это Жорж все пытается доказать, что у них негров линчуют Ангара не долгострой, но постоянно ошибается форумом.  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 04.03.2015 16:17:00
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    Для SLS, если он состоится, при той частоте пусков раз в три года запасов SSME хватит на много лет...
    может быть, но пишут о возобновлении их производства

    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    Одной из целью программы EELV было снижение стоимости РН. Также это был ответ на гибель "Челленджера". ВВС хотело гарантировать себе доступ в космос, в чем их НАСА подвело.
    еще до Челленджера ВВС заявило о носителе
    Цитироватьhttp://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/IB93062_20050527.pdf
    The shuttle was first launched in 1981, and was declared operational in 1982. The phase-out of the ELVs began, but in 1984 the Air Force successfully argued that it needed a "complementary" ELV as a backup to the shuttle for "assured access to space" and initiated what is now known as the Titan IV program.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 16:36:55
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    О да. Всего лишь обычные такие спутники за $2 млрд...
    Это военные игрушки. Речь идет об известных и этапных гражданских аппаратах вроде "Ориона". Кроме него, ничего особенного.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 16:38:24
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    еще до Челленджера ВВС заявило о носителе
    Дальше разговоров дело не шло. Тогда вовсю провозглашалось окончание эры РН и то, что шаттлы их заменят. Движение пошло после гибели "Челленджера".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: George от 04.03.2015 16:39:04
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Ангара не долгострой
    К этому топику она никаким боком.  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 04.03.2015 17:05:00
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    О да. Всего лишь обычные такие спутники за $2 млрд...
    Это военные игрушки. Речь идет об известных и этапных гражданских аппаратах вроде "Ориона". Кроме него, ничего особенного.
    Неизвестные George, значит не выдающиеся! :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 04.03.2015 13:29:46
    ЦитироватьGeorge пишет:
    К этому топику она никаким боком. :)
    Уши Ангары из ваших постов про Дельту-4 слишком явно торчат. Тоньше нужно работать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 19.03.2015 11:37:51
    В связи с отказом от всех модификаций Дельты кроме тяжелой ее цена вырастет до $1 млрд.

    http://spacenews.com/air-force-wary-of-swapping-ulas-monopoly-for-a-different-sort-of-dependence/

    ЦитироватьULA, whose monopoly is being challenged by Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, plans to phase out the intermediate, or single-stick, version of the Delta 4 as early as 2018, and rely exclusively on the less expensive Atlas 5 to carry intermediate class satellites until it, too, is replaced. Although it will continue flying the three-stick Delta 4 Heavy for as long as the Air Force wants, ULA ultimately plans to field a brand new rocket, the Next Generation Launch System (NGLS), some time after 2020.
    SpaceX, meanwhile, is awaiting Air Force certification of its intermediate-lift Falcon 9 rocket to carry national security missions in the coming months and plans to debut its three-stick Falcon Heavy rocket by the end of this year. The Falcon Heavy, which would compete directly with the Delta 4 Heavy, is expected to win certification by 2018 at the earliest.
    During a hearing March 17 of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, Mitch Mitchell, a vice president at Aerospace Corp. and a retired Air Force major general, laid out a scenario in which the Air Force, due to the Russian-engine ban and other factors, would be solely dependent on the Falcon 9 for intermediate-class payloads and Delta 4 Heavy for the largest payloads.
    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno added that with Delta 4 production limited to the seldom-used but critical heavy-lift variant, each vehicle would cost roughly $1 billion, an astronomical sum even by government-launch industry standards.
    "It is not acceptable. Period," said Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, who testified alongside Mitchell.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Антон от 19.03.2015 12:37:13
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    В связи с отказом от всех модификаций Дельты кроме тяжелой ее цена вырастет до $1 млрд.

     http://spacenews.com/air-force-wary-of-swapping-ulas-monopoly-for-a-different-sort-of-dependence/
    ЦитироватьULA, whose monopoly is being challenged by Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, plans to phase out the intermediate, or single-stick, version of the Delta 4 as early as 2018, and rely exclusively on the less expensive Atlas 5 to carry intermediate class satellites until it, too, is replaced. Although it will continue flying the three-stick Delta 4 Heavy for as long as the Air Force wants, ULA ultimately plans to field a brand new rocket, the Next Generation Launch System (NGLS), some time after 2020.
    SpaceX, meanwhile, is awaiting Air Force certification of its intermediate-lift Falcon 9 rocket to carry national security missions in the coming months and plans to debut its three-stick Falcon Heavy rocket by the end of this year. The Falcon Heavy, which would compete directly with the Delta 4 Heavy, is expected to win certification by 2018 at the earliest.
    During a hearing March 17 of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, Mitch Mitchell, a vice president at Aerospace Corp. and a retired Air Force major general, laid out a scenario in which the Air Force, due to the Russian-engine ban and other factors, would be solely dependent on the Falcon 9 for intermediate-class payloads and Delta 4 Heavy for the largest payloads.
     ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno added that with Delta 4 production limited to the seldom-used but critical heavy-lift variant, each vehicle would cost roughly $1 billion, an astronomical sum even by government-launch industry standards.
    "It is not acceptable. Period," said Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, who testified alongside Mitchell.
    СКОЛЬКО???? Да проще тогда всю верхнюю ступень с обтекателем к Falcon Heavy приделать или на SLS запускать
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 19.03.2015 13:16:28
    Мопед не мой...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 19.03.2015 23:37:51
    http://spacenews.com/air-force-wary-of-swapping-ulas-monopoly-for-a-different-sort-of-dependence/
    ЦитироватьAir Force Wary of Swapping ULA's Monopoly for a Different Sort of Dependence
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — March 18, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155433.jpg)
    "Two American-made launch vehicle families, the ULA Delta 4 series of rockets, and the SpaceX Falcon rockets, have the capability to fulfill 100 percent of the nation's launch requirements," SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell testified. Credit: House Armed Services Committee video capture  
     
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Defense Department officials and some House members fear a law passed by Congress last year could inadvertently create separate launch monopolies for two critical classes of national security payloads — intermediate and heavy.
    The result could leave the Air Force one failed launch away from being without guaranteed access to space for certain missions beginning around 2019, officials warned.
    The situation stems largely from a provision in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2015 (http://spacenews.com/42701house-senate-conference-measure-to-end-pentagon-use-of-rd-180/) that bars future use of Russian-made rocket engines for launching national security payloads. The measure, prompted by Russia's annexation of Crimea last year, would effectively sideline United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket, a workhorse powered by the Russian-made RD-180 engine that today launches most of the Pentagon's intermediate-class satellites.
    Denver-based ULA, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, currently has a monopoly on the U.S. national security launch business with the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets. The Delta 4, powered by a U.S.-made engine, includes a three-core configuration that is used to launch the Defense Department's largest satellite payloads.
    ULA, whose monopoly is being challenged by Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX, plans to phase out (http://spacenews.com/ula-targets-2018-for-delta-4-phase-out-seeks-relaxation-of-rd-180-ban/) the intermediate, or single-stick, version of the Delta 4 as early as 2018, and rely exclusively on the less expensive Atlas 5 to carry intermediate class satellites until it, too, is replaced. Although it will continue flying the three-stick Delta 4 Heavy for as long as the Air Force wants, ULA ultimately plans to field a brand new rocket, the Next Generation Launch System (NGLS), some time after 2020.
    SpaceX, meanwhile, is awaiting Air Force certification of its intermediate-lift Falcon 9 rocket to carry national security missions in the coming months and plans to debut its three-stick Falcon Heavy rocket by the end of this year. The Falcon Heavy, which would compete directly with the Delta 4 Heavy, is expected to win certification by 2018 at the earliest.
    During a hearing March 17 of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, Mitch Mitchell, a vice president at Aerospace Corp. and a retired Air Force major general, laid out a scenario in which the Air Force, due to the Russian-engine ban and other factors, would be solely dependent on the Falcon 9 for intermediate-class payloads and Delta 4 Heavy for the largest payloads.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155453.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Tory_Bruno-House_Armed_Services.jpg)
    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno testifying before the U.S. House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee. Credit: House Armed Services Committee video capture

    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno added that with Delta 4 production limited to the seldom-used but critical heavy-lift variant, each vehicle would cost roughly $1 billion, an astronomical sum even by government-launch industry standards.
    "It is not acceptable. Period," said Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, who testified alongside Mitchell.
    "This is our gravest concern," added Katrina McFarland, the assistant secretary of defense for acquisition.
    One way to avoid this scenario, these officials said, would be for Congress to allow ULA to purchase additional Russian-made RD-180 engines. The current law bans the use of Russian engines that were purchased after February 2014 for national security launches.
    SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell, who testified alongside Bruno, registered SpaceX's opposition to lifting the RD-180 ban. "Not a single additional RD-180 is necessary to ensure American access to space," she testified. "Two American-made launch vehicle families, the ULA Delta 4 series of rockets, and the SpaceX Falcon rockets, have the capability to fulfill 100 percent of the nation's launch requirements."
    But Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) the chairman of the subcommittee, suggested an alternative whereby Congress clarifies the language, which in its current form — at least in the Air Force's interpretation — leaves ULA with only five RD-180s available for competitions for as many as 40 launches through 2024. In that scenario, ULA would be forced to compete against SpaceX with its Delta 4, which is at least 25 percent more expensive than the Atlas 5.
    Rogers said he wanted to make clear that Congress' intent was for ULA to have about 14 RD-180 engines available for the upcoming competitions. Under that provision, the Defense Department would benefit from extended competition between the Atlas 5 and Falcon 9.
    Rogers said he and Rep. Jim Cooper (D-Tenn.), the subcommittee's ranking member, would work with the Pentagon to help ease the transition from the Russian engine for the Defense Department.
    http://spacenews.com/mccain-accuses-air-force-of-stalling-on-rd-180-replacement/
    ЦитироватьMcCain Accuses Air Force of Stalling on RD-180 Replacement
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — March 19, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155436.jpg)"Russia annexed Crimea over a year ago, yet the Air Force does not even have an acquisition strategy yet for a new rocket engine," U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said in his opening statement for an Army and Air Force hearing. Credit: Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army
     
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the Air Force has "wasted a year doing very little" to end the Defense Department's reliance on Russian rocket engines to launch national security satellites.
    "Russia annexed Crimea over a year ago, yet the Air Force does not even have an acquisition strategy yet for a new rocket engine," McCain said March 18 in his opening statement for an Army and Air Force hearing. "Instead of giving this effort the level of attention needed, the Air Force has wasted a year doing very little to end our reliance on Russian rocket engines. If the Air Force is unwilling to do what's necessary to meet the 2019 deadline, they are going to have to figure out how to meet our space launch needs without the RD-180."
    The RD-180 is the main engine on United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket, which along with that company's Delta 4 rocket launches virtually all U.S. national security satellites. Following Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine last year, Congress mandated that the Air Force stop using the RD-180 (http://spacenews.com/42701house-senate-conference-measure-to-end-pentagon-use-of-rd-180/) and begin work on a U.S.-built replacement.
    Congress reprogrammed $40 million for the new engine in fiscal year 2014 and allocated $220 million in 2015, directing that it be ready by 2019. Air Force officials said March 17 they could issue a draft solicitation for new engine concepts as early as April.
    But McCain and other lawmakers have grown increasingly critical of the service's pace on the project.
    Sens. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) and James Inhofe (R-Okla.) took up the matter in a March 10 letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter. "Given the urgency of the situation and clear guidance from Congress, I am concerned at the lack of action exhibited by DOD and the Air Force," they said.
    Air Force and ULA officials have argued that the schedule mandated by Congress for fielding a new American-made engine is unrealistic and are seeking a relaxation of the RD-180 ban (http://spacenews.com/air-force-secretary-casts-doubt-on-rd-180-replacement-schedule/) so the company can buy more of the Russian-made engines.
    Rep. Mac Thornberry (R-Texas), the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told reporters March 16 he wanted the Air Force to explain why an American-made rocket engine can not be ready by 2019 (http://spacenews.com/thornberry-wants-air-force-to-explain-why-it-needs-more-time-to-replace-rd-180/) before he would consider easing or lifting a ban on Russian-made engines.
    Nonetheless, there does seem to be some congressional support for easing the ban.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155379.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/BE4_BlueOrigin.jpg)BE-4 rocket engine. Credit: Blue Origin
    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno says the RD-180 ban should be delayed until an American alternative is ready. Denver-based ULA is working with Blue Origin on the BE-4, a liquid natural gas-fueled engine that Bruno has said will not be ready to fly Air Force missions before 2021.
    Aerojet Rocketdne of Sacramento, California, also is working on an RD-180 alternative dubbed the AR-1 and says it can meet the 2019 deadline, but Pentagon officials remain skeptical.
    McCain has been a vocal critic of the Air Force's satellite-launching program in recent years due to its high cost. In February, he accused the Air Force of "actively keeping" rocket maker SpaceX out of the national security launch market. SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, is challenging ULA's monopoly with its Falcon 9 rocket, which expected to win Air Force certification to launch national security missions by midyear.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.03.2015 21:53:47
    First look inside United Launch Alliance
    http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000364298
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 04.04.2015 10:44:35
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwczm9ScBzE

    А вот какое любопытное видео. В том числе мелькают чертежи их поршневого моторчика, который будет работать на водороде-кислороде. Типа дренаж все равно уходит, а мы его будем в мотор с генератором... вместо аккумуляторов.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Floppy Disk от 04.04.2015 09:35:01
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154629.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.04.2015 10:35:20
    Источник: http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/03/31/stats-delta-4-history-and-backlog-updated-march-30/

    А чего ж на полпути остановились?
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/03/19/4925/

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154626.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.04.2015 14:42:48
    Tory Bruno responds to launch cost calculations brought up in Congressional testimony with an infographic.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158123.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 05.04.2015 21:19:07
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/04/01/same-day-rollouts-and-launches-returning-to-atlas-5-program/
    ЦитироватьSame day rollouts and launches could return to Atlas 5 program       
    Posted on April 1, 2015 by Justin Ray (http://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154659.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/AV036-Rollout-jm-07.jpg)
    Credit: James Murati/Bionetics Photo Services
     
    CAPE CANAVERAL — Returning to the days of rollouts and launches in a span of only a few hours, the United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 program is looking to resume this whirlwind experience.
    It was a procedure used in the early days of the program a decade ago, moving the vehicles from the Vertical Integration Facility to the launch pad at Cape Canaveral's Complex 41 mere hours before liftoff.
    Five Atlas 5 missions followed this schedule. The first was the second flight of Atlas 5 with the Hellas Sat satellite in 2003 and the most recent was NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter launch in August 2005.
    Since then, Atlas rockets have been rolled out the day before, even two days prior to liftoff.
    It is called the "clean pad" approach of working on the rocket within the confines of a building and keeping the vehicle's stay on the pad to a bare minimum. The pad features no service gantry.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154660.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/AV036-Rollout-jm-20.jpg)
    Credit: James Murati/Bionetics Photo Services
     
    A pair of specially-made "trackmobiles" push the Atlas 5 rocket's 1.4-million pound mobile launching platform along rail tracks for an 1,800-foot trip.
    Once at the launch pad, autocouplers engage to feed the rocket from the ground and crews will power up the Atlas-Centaur to begin carrying out a prescribed test schedule on various equipment. RP-1 kerosene fuel is loaded into the first stage shortly after arriving at the pad and cryogenic fueling operations start two-hours before liftoff time.
    The change could go into practice later this summer, as officials evaluate several missions to implement the roll-and-launch in the same day strategy.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 07.04.2015 06:47:36
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/330315.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 09.04.2015 08:35:34
    ULA working to reduce five launch pads to two
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/04/09/ula-working-to-reduce-five-launch-pads-to-two/

    ЦитироватьCAPE CANAVERAL — The nation's existing Atlas and Delta launch sites are vying for a future when United Launch Alliance completes its modernization with a new rocket system and downsizing to one pad on each coast.

    The rocket operator, a 50-50 joint venture between Boeing and Lockheed Martin, currently uses five launch complexes at Cape Canaveral in Florida and Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. That number will fall to just two in the coming years.

    At the Cape, there is Complex 41 used by the Atlas 5 and Complex 37 that is used to launch the Delta 4 rocket. At Vandenberg, there is Space Launch Complexes 2-West, 3-East and 6, homes to the Delta 2, Atlas 5 and Delta 4, respectively.

    Ongoing analysis will determine which site is best to keep open on each coast and which ones will be eliminated.

    "Have we decided exactly which pads? No, not yet," Tory Bruno, the United Launch Alliance president and CEO, said in an interview this week.

    "We are going to do a separate announcement for that in a couple of months when we've finished up our trades. We are getting pretty close, we think we know, we have a pretty good idea which they'll be. But these things are never done till they are done."

    Спойлер
    The Delta 2 will be the first to retire in 2017, pending future sale of one leftover vehicle. Only Vandenberg's SLC-2 West remains in service of the rocket today.

    The medium-class versions of the Delta 4 rocket will go away in 2019, leaving only the infrequently-flying Heavy vehicles needing Complex 37 on the East Coast and SLC-6 on the West Coast. Heavy will continue to fly as long as the Air Force requires it.

    "The reason we are downsizing launch pads, first of all, it's because the launch facilities are the single biggest element of our fixed costs and facility costs," Bruno says.

    "We have five pads. We had six just a short time ago. The reason we have so many pads because we fly on two coasts, you're never going to have less than two pads, right there, and we fly two completely separate and redundant launch vehicle families — the Atlas and the Delta — and there are pads more or less unique to each one."

    Bruno sees the pads of the future will be modernized with new philosophies.

    "The pads were constructed a number of years ago with the philosophy and technology available to launch pads at the time. So I want to take the opportunity to modernize the design of the pads to make them very, very flexible so they can accommodate whatever rocket we are going to bring there and whatever payload configuration. So it won't matter if the hatchway on the payload is in a different place, it won't matter if we are doing cargo or crew, the pad will be very flexible and allow very quick turnaround times," he said.

    The three Delta sites are "classic pads" with mobile service gantries and umbilical towers. The Atlas complexes are vastly different in approach, with SLC-3 East a "classic pad" and the Complex 41 a "clean pad" that sees the fully-stacked rocket rolled out from an assembly building shortly before liftoff time.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 23.05.2015 00:06:56
    http://spacenews.com/ula-execs-say-rd-180-engine-ban-blocks-path-to-next-gen-rocket/#sthash.LR63FhBN.dpuf
    ЦитироватьULA Execs Say RD-180 Engine Ban Blocks Path to Next-gen Rocket
    by Warren Ferster (http://spacenews.com/author/warren-ferster/) — May 22, 2015
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155482.jpg)
    "It is currently unclear whether we will be allowed to use the RD-180 to continue flying the Atlas long enough to reach the new American engine, and that in itself is a significant impediment to making the investment," ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno said. Credit: Tom Kimmell for Space Foundation
     
    WASHINGTON — The willingness of United Launch Alliance's parent companies to fund a next-generation rocket hinges on winning relief from the ban on the Russian-made engine that powers its current government workhorse, the Atlas 5, ULA executives say.
    In separate appearances, ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno and Chairman Craig Cooning tied investment in ULA's planned Vulcan rocket to the congressionally imposed ban on the future use of Russian-made engines to launch military payloads. The Atlas 5 is used today to launch most U.S. military payloads and virtually all of the nation's scientific satellites.
    The ban, imposed in the National Defense Authorization Act for 2015, permits ULA to use just five RD-180 engines for upcoming competitive phases of the U.S. Air Force's Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program. The initial round, in which Denver-based ULA will square off against emerging rival SpaceX, gets underway this year and includes nine launches.
    ULA, which is phasing out its Delta 4 rocket because of its high cost, expects the Vulcan, featuring a main engine developed and funded by the privately held Blue Origin venture, to debut in 2019 and win certification to launch military payloads in 2022. ULA says that to stay in the game until then, it needs to have at least 14 RD-180s available for the upcoming competitions.
    The House and Senate have drafted different versions of the 2016 defense authorization bill that relax the ban. But while the House version permits ULA to use the 14 engines it says it needs for the near-term competitions — of which there are two — the Senate version clears no more than nine.
    Developing the Vulcan, essentially an Atlas 5 with a new first stage in its initial version, will require an unspecified but substantial investment from ULA's parent companies, Boeing and Lockheed Martin. ULA's board of directors, composed of Boeing and Lockheed Martin executives, has yet to approve that full investment.
    During a speech at Boeing media event May 19 in Los Angeles, Cooning said the RD-180 ban in its current form undermines the business case for investing in new launch capabilities. Cooning is president of Boeing Network and Space Systems and currently holds the ULA chairmanship, a position that rotates between Boeing and Lockheed Martin.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155344.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CraigCooning_SN4X3.jpg)
    ULA Chairman Craig Cooning said the RD-180 ban in its current form undermines the business case for investing in new launch capabilities. Credit: Chuck Bigger photo

    Cooning's remarks were quoted by Flightglobal.com and confirmed by Boeing spokesman Robert Sterling.
    The board has approved ULA's target Vulcan milestones for the year, but for now will only commit investment funds on a quarterly basis.
    In an emailed statement, Sterling said part of the business case for that investment is RD-180 availability. "Those engines must be available until a new launch vehicle is ready," he said. "The Air Force has told Congress that the plan for phasing out the RD-180 needs to be modified. We fully support that position."
    Lockheed Martin spokesman Matthew Kramer confirmed that Sterling's statement represents the board's position.
    In a luncheon speech here May 21, Bruno seconded the board's motion. "It is currently unclear whether we will be allowed to use the RD-180 to continue flying the Atlas long enough to reach the new American engine, and that in itself is a significant impediment to making the investment," he said. "When I talked about how important it was for the country to introduce the next generation of engine technology — it could be either the AR1 or the BE-4 — it is essential for Congress to allow us to cross that valley until the new engine is ready or it's not going to happen."
    The BE-4, being developed by Kent, Washington-based Blue Origin, is ULA's primary choice for an RD-180 replacement. Should Blue Origin falter, ULA has a backup option in the AR1 being developed by Aerojet Rocketdyne of Canoga Park, California.
    Bruno cited the RD-180 as one of a number of market uncertainties facing ULA. Another is an expected decline in military demand — a "slump," as he described it — from the current number of 10-12 missions annually to around five in the next couple of years.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155463.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/BE4_testing-ULA.jpg)
    The BE-4, being developed by Kent, Washington-based Blue Origin, is ULA's primary choice for an RD-180 replacement. Credit: Blue Origin
     
    That smaller number likely would be divvied up with SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, which is poised to end ULA's current monopoly in the national security market when it wins certification, expected in June, for its Falcon 9 rocket. That means ULA will have to win substantial civil and commercial business — currently it is barely a bit player in the commercial market — to be viable.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne, meanwhile, is part of a three-company consortium that has inquired about obtaining the production rights to the Atlas 5, which Bruno said are jointly owned by ULA and Lockheed Martin. Kramer said Lockheed Martin owns the elements of the Atlas 5 design created prior to ULA's 2006 establishment and, like ULA, has no intention of transferring that intellectual property.
    ULA also confirmed that 12 members, or 30 percent, of its executive-level staff had accepted buyouts and would be leaving the company. "It is important for ULA to move forward early in the process with our leadership selections to ensure a seamless transition and our continued focus on mission success," ULA spokeswoman Jessica Rye said in a statement.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.05.2015 22:16:01
    Мысли о конуренции ULA и SpaceX:
    http://selenianboondocks.com/2015/05/random-ula-thoughts/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 27.05.2015 08:11:52
    del
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Air от 10.06.2015 17:14:30
    Сделал картинку по существующему проекту поставки РД-180 для "Атлас 5". Я правильно понимаю, что это скоро будет историей? После 2019 года американские ракеты будут стартовать на двигателях собственной разработки?
    (https://www.newkaliningrad.ru/forum/uploads/gallery/album_2386/gallery_6489_2386_120512.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 10.06.2015 17:20:58
    ЦитироватьAir пишет:
    Я правильно понимаю, чтоэто скоро будет историей?
    Не так уж скоро. За 4 года многое может измениться.
    Цитировать
    Air
    пишет:
    После 2019 года американские ракеты будут стартовать на двигателях собственной разработки?
    РД-180 будет летать, пока Вулкан (или AR-1) не сертифицируют для пилотируемых полетов. Вряд ли это случится до 2021. Скорее где-то в районе 2023.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 23.06.2015 15:39:46
    http://spacenews.com/air-force-confirms-ula-position-on-atlas-5-production-rights/
    ЦитироватьAir Force Confirms ULA Position on Atlas 5 Production Rights
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — June 19, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155461.jpg)Rollout of an Atlas 5 rocket from the vehicle assembly building to the launchpad. Credit: ULA/Pat Corkery  
     
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Defense Department has told a consortium of three companies, including propulsion provider Aerojet Rocketdyne, that the government does not own the design or production rights to United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket, a ruling that would appear to thwart an early effort to add another competitor to the launch business.
    In May, the consortium asked the Secretary of Defense about the possibility of obtaining production rights to the rocket, a military workhorse that ULA plans to replace by the end of the decade.
    In theory, the consortium would use the Aerojet-designed AR1 engine to replace the controversial Russian-made RD-180 engine used on the Atlas 5 today.
    But the Defense Department said it did not own the design or production rights for the rocket, nor did it own the intellectual property rights, according to a June 19 statement from Capt. Annmarie Annicelli, an Air Force spokeswoman.
    Lockheed Martin and ULA say they own different elements of the Atlas 5 design. According to Annicelli, ULA also owns the Atlas 5 production facility in Decatur, Alabama, and the launch pads and towers at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida and at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
    ULA officials had previously said the company has "no intention of selling or transferring" Atlas 5 production rights.
    Besides Aerojet Rocketdyne, the consortium that inquired about Atlas 5 production rights includes Dynetics, of Huntsville, Alabama, and Shafer Corp. of Arlington, Virginia, which is led by former NASA Administrator Mike Griffin.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 23.06.2015 16:12:31
    http://spacenews.com/hearing-on-u-s-space-launch-strategy-could-get-testy/
    ЦитироватьHearing on U.S. Space Launch Strategy Could Get Testy
    by Warren Ferster (http://spacenews.com/author/warren-ferster/) and Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — June 22, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155500.png)"I will not allow the resources Congress has made available for this purpose to be wasted or misused," said U.S. Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.). Credit: C-SPAN video capture  
     
    WASHINGTON – The chairman of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee on June 22 set the stage for a scheduled June 26 hearing on national security space launch by declaring that Congress meant it when it directed the U.S. Air Force to end its reliance on Russian rocket engines by 2019.
    "It is not the time to fund new launch vehicles, or new infrastructure, or rely on unproven technologies," Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.) said in a press release announcing the hearing.  "It is the time for the Pentagon to harness the power of the American industrial base, and move with purpose and clarity in order to swiftly develop an American rocket propulsion system that ends our reliance on Russia as soon as possible."
    The hearing, the panel's second on the topic in four months, will focus on U.S. efforts to end reliance on the Russian-built RD-180 engine that powers the U.S. military's main workhorse, the United Launch Alliance Atlas 5. Congress late last year ordered the Air Force to immediately begin working on an American-built replacement engine and appropriated $225 million for the effort.
    "I will not allow the resources Congress has made available for this purpose to be wasted or misused," Rogers said.
    The Air Force and White House agree that the liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled RD-180 should be phased but disagree with Congress on the one-for-one replacement approach, instead advocating broader program of investment in various launch vehicle technologies. Denver-based ULA, meanwhile, is pursuing an Atlas 5 replacement vehicle featuring a methane-fueled engine built and funded by rocket venture Blue Origin.
    Rogers' statement appears to be a shot across the bow not only of the Air Force but also of ULA, whose main rocket making facility is in Decatur, Alabama. Some industry experts view ULA's strategy as risky and believe the surest and quickest way to wean the Air Force off the RD-180 is to immediately begin developing a replacement that, unlike Blue Origin's BE-4, can plug into the aft end of the Atlas 5.
    The upcoming hearing, entitled "Assuring National Security Space: Investing in American Industry to End Reliance on Russian Rocket Engines," will feature a panel of government witnesses followed by one from industry.
    The government panel will include: Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command; Lt. Gen. Samuel Greaves, commander of Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center, which acquires space hardware; Katrina McFarland, assistant secretary of defense for acquisition; and Mike Griffin, the former NASA administrator who co-authored a study last year that advocated replacing the RD-180 as soon as feasible.
    The industry panel will include Tory Bruno, president and chief executive of ULA; Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin; Julie Van Kleek, vice president of advanced systems and launch programs at Aerojet Rocketdyne, which is developing the LOX/kerosene-fuled AR1 that could replace the RD-180 on the Atlas 5; Jeff Thornburg, senior director of propulsion engineering at SpaceX, ULA's new competitor in the national security launch market; and Frank Culberson, president of the space systems group at Orbital ATK.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 23.06.2015 20:06:16
    ЦитироватьAerojet Rocketdyne Targets $25 Million Per Pair For AR-1 Engines
    Amy Butler
     



    Aerojet (http://awin.aviationweek.com/OrganizationProfiles.aspx?orgId=2026112) Rocketdyne is targeting a cost of $20-25 million for each pair of new AR-1 engines as the company continues to lobby the government to fund an all-new, U.S.-sourced rocket propulsion system, says Scott Seymour, president and CEO of the company's parent, GenCorp.
    Including legacy systems and various risk-reduction projects, Aerojet Rocketdyne has spent roughly $300 million working on technologies that will feed into the AR-1, Seymour said during a June 3 roundtable with Aviation Week editors. The effort to build a new, 500,000-lb. thrust liquid oxygen/kerosene propulsion system would take about four years from contract award and cost roughly $800 million to $1 billion.
    Such an engine is eyed for United Launch Alliance's (ULA) Atlas V rocket as well as Orbital's Antares and, possibly, Space Exploration Technology's Falcon 9 v1.1.
    This is roughly the same price cited for the cost of standing up U.S. co-production of the RD-180 engine, which is manufactured by NPO Energomash of Russia and sold to ULA for the Atlas V through a joint venture with Pratt & Whitney.
    "We certainly believe [the AR-1 will be] on a par – if not better – than the performance of the RD-180. We also believe it is going to be more affordable," Seymour said. "With each launch vehicle having it its own engine, trying to get any kind of economic buy quantity has been a struggle for us. We really believe with the AR-1 approach, we have a multitude of applications for the engine."
    SpaceX (http://awin.aviationweek.com/OrganizationProfiles.aspx?orgId=130904)'s Falcon 9v1.1 is powered by the company's own Merlin 1D engine, but Seymour says he hopes the AR-1 is competitive enough in pricing to earn a place even on this platform. SpaceX founder Elon Musk has focused his company on vertical integration to support quick development timelines.
    ULA would not release the per-unit cost of the RD-180 for the Atlas V. SpaceX did not reply to requests on its Merlin engine price; nine Merlin 1Ds are used per Falcon 9 v1.1 launch.
    Seymour says the company envisions an engine that can mate with multiple boosters, helping to increase the production volume and, eventually, keep pricing and sourcing stable. "I believe it brings the engines in the space industry more toward the model of aircraft engines ... the destination for those engines are any multitude of aircraft applications," he said.
    Eventually, Seymour envisions this engine could be a foundation for NASA (http://awin.aviationweek.com/OrganizationProfiles.aspx?orgId=19991)'s Space Launch System rocket bound for Mars, though he did not give details on the path to get there.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne has put its own internal research and development funding toward pieces of the system, but is awaiting funding for a government project, likely to come in fiscal 2016, Seymour said. Despite a tight fiscal environment in Washington, momentum for a new hydrocarbon engine has grown substantially in recent weeks due largely to an aversion of lawmakers to continue buying Russian-made engines in light of Russia's annexation of Crimea.

    http://aviationweek.com/defense/aerojet-rocketdyne-targets-25-million-pair-ar-1-engines




     
    - each pair - смущает  :oops:
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.06.2015 21:21:20
    AR-1 всегда предлагали парой на замену РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 23.06.2015 21:18:34
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    AR-1 всегда предлагали парой на замену РД-180.
    Тогда берём:
    Цитироватьsing an advanced oxidizer-rich staged combustion engine cycle, the liquid oxygen/kerosene AR1 will generate 500,000 lbf of thrust at sea level. The thrust class enables the engine to be easily configured for use on multiple launch vehicles, including the Atlas V and the Advanced Boosters being considered for NASA's Space Launch System.
    500000х 0.453х2= 453000
    Итого 453 т тяги sea level.
    Атлас 5 наращивать не надо?  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 23.06.2015 19:47:06
    а зачем? там богатый набор бустеров. Кто нить из любителей знает, на какие именно атласы  хотят потратить оставшиеся запасы РД-180? Там вроде самый популярный был 401, а теперь смысла в нем нет, он слабее фалкон-9
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 29.06.2015 23:34:47
    В свете крайней аварии F9 смысл просматривается?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 29.06.2015 23:36:04
    http://spacenews.com/falcon-9-failure-strengthens-assured-access-arguments/
    ЦитироватьFalcon 9 Failure Strengthens Assured Access Arguments
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — June 29, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155507.png)The June 28 explosion of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket has amplified calls for the Defense Department to have assured access to space. Credit: NASA TV.  
     
    WASHINGTON — The June 28 explosion of a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket just two minutes after liftoff fr om Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida, undercuts the hard-charging company just as it appeared ready to grab a share of the lucrative U.S. military launch market.
    Up until the failure, which destroyed a capsule filled with supplies for the International Space Station, Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX had compiled a nearly flawless track record over 18 Falcon 9 missions for government and commercial customers. In June, after a sometimes contentious process that lasted nearly two years, the Air Force certified the Falcon 9 to launch national security satellites.
    Meanwhile, United Launch Alliance, which has had the military market all to itself since 2006, faces questions about the future availability of its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket. Congress has directed the U.S. Air Force to stop using the Russian-built RD-180, that powers the main stage of the Atlas 5.
    These developments have SpaceX well positioned to win hundreds of millions of dollars of Air Force launch contracts. The service plans award the first of those competitive contracts – to launch one of its next-generation GPS 3 navigation satellites-  later this year.
    The failure, whose cause is under investigation, won't help SpaceX's cause. John Taylor, a SpaceX spokesman, declined to comment.
    "We're lucky that all we lost yesterday is supplies," Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.), chairman of the House Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee, said in a June 29 email to SpaceNews. "It could have been the lives of astronauts or a multi-billion national security payload that our warfighters rely on.
    "We've been reminded of the importance of Assured Access to Space.  We can't allow the United States to be put into a position wh ere it has only one means of launching national security payloads, because it can be lost in a moment."
    Despite having been a monopoly, Denver-based ULA fulfilled the assured access requirement for all but the heaviest payloads by virtue of having two vehicles, the Atlas 5 and Delta 4. But the company is phasing out all but the largest variant of Delta 4 — the Air Force has no alternative for launching some of its most critical national security satellites — because the vehicle is too expensive.
    Once that happens, the Air Force will have assured access through the combination of the Falcon 9 and Atlas 5, which ULA plans to replace after 2020 with a new rocket called Vulcan. To stay competitive while developing Vulcan, ULA is counting on continued access to the RD-180. The company says it needs 14 of the Russian-made engines to stay in business until Vulcan, to be powered by a U.S.-made engine, is ready. The House version of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2016 grants that number, but the Senate version allows only nine.
    Air Force officials have expressed concern that the Senate version of the bill could effectively knock Atlas 5 out of the national security market, leaving the Air Force with only one rocket at its disposal: Falcon 9. The failure would appear to lend strength to those concerns.
    Just two days before the Falcon 9 exploded, assured access was the focus of a hearing of the House strategic forces subcommittee that included testimony from Air Force and industry witnesses.
    "With the Nation's deep reliance on space capabilities, assured access to space remains one of our highest priorities," Gen. John Hyten, commander of Air Force Space Command, said in written testimony. "It is essential we sustain a reliable capability to deliver national security satellites to space."
    In a statement to SpaceNews provided June 29, the Air Force said "it's too early to assess any impact that the Space X launch failure has on future DoD launch missions.  The Department is firmly committed to smoothly transitioning our launch enterprise with a continued strong focus on maintaining assured access to space for National Security Space missions."
    In the week before the Falcon 9 failure, House and Senate leaders began negotiating differences between the House and Senate version of the defense authorization bill for 2016. Congressional sources have said for months that a group known as the Big Four, the chairmen and ranking members, of the House and Senate armed services committees, will decide how many engines to give ULA and the Air Force. Or, viewed another way, how much trust the Defense Department should put in SpaceX.
    A final decision could come by the end of July.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 30.06.2015 17:54:47
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    В свете крайней аварии F9 смысл просматривается?
    фалкон можно голой дельтой-4 дублировать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Антон от 30.06.2015 23:39:58
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а зачем? там богатый набор бустеров. Кто нить из любителей знает, на какие именно атласы хотят потратить оставшиеся запасы РД-180? Там вроде самый популярный был 401, а теперь смысла в нем нет, он слабее фалкон-9
    ну слабее, но как правило и его хватает. 
    Зачем платить больше за бустер? 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Антон от 30.06.2015 23:40:30
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    В свете крайней аварии F9 смысл просматривается?
    фалкон можно голой дельтой-4 дублировать.
    голую дельту убить хотят ироды  :cry:
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Floppy Disk от 01.07.2015 22:35:25
    Фирмы США могут разработать более дешевый аналог российскому двигателю

    РД-180 используются в первой ступени американских ракет Atlas, пока промышленность США не производит аналогов российских двигателей. Американский двигатель будет на треть дешевле российского, сообщила вице-президент Aerojet Rocketdyne Джули ван Клик.

    ВАШИНГТОН, 26 июн — РИА Новости. Американские компании ракетно-космической отрасли готовы к 2019 году разработать двигатель на замену российскому РД-180 к 2019 году и обещают, что он будет дешевле.
    РД-180 используются в первой ступени американских ракет Atlas, пока промышленность США не производит аналогов российских двигателей.
    В пятницу в комитете по вооруженным силам палаты представителей конгресса США прошли слушания по вопросу создания американских ракетно-космических двигателей с участием руководства ведущих компаний США в этой области — United Launch Alliance (совместное предприятие Lockheed Martin Corp и Boeing), Blue Origin, Aerojet Rocketdyne, SpaceEx.
    "Мы готовы завершить испытания и сертификацию двигателя к 2019 году", — сообщила вице-президент Aerojet Rocketdyne Джули ван Клик. Она добавила, что это будет полностью новый двигатель, а не аналог российского, поскольку "производить российский — слишком дорого, поскольку он очень сложный".
    "Наш двигатель будет на треть дешевле российского", — отметил президент United Launch Alliance Сальватор Бруно. Он рассказал, что компания рассматривает возможность создания проекта спаренных двигателей для ракетоносителей вместо одного РД-180, который сейчас используется.
    В то же время представители компаний не назвали даже примерную стоимость работ и самого двигателя.
    Палата представителей конгресса США в декабре 2014 года в качестве антироссийской меры на события на Украине приняла поправку сенатора Маккейна, которая предусматривает полный отказ США от ракетных двигателей РД-180 до 2019 года. Исключение делается для контракта, заключенного консорциумом Boeing и Lockheed Martin (ULA) с российским НПО "Энергомаш" до 2019 года. Сообщалось, что конгресс выделил 220 миллионов долларов на разработку новых американских двигателей.
    В марте США объявили, что проведут тендер на космические запуски в связи с планирующимся отказом от российских ракетных двигателей РД-180. Конкурс будет проведен на 28 запусков, которые планируется произвести в 2020-2024 годах.

    РИА Новости http://ria.ru/space/20150626/1091217220.html#ixzz3ef84NgMp
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 01.07.2015 23:15:36
    а что подразумевается под сертификацией?  по странице http://www.npoenergomash.ru/dejatelnost/engines/rd180/ процесс не одного года, у Маска процесс тоже длился долго, но это он.

    Цитироватьhttp://ria.ru/world/20150630/1103980254.html
    CМИ: США еще долго будут зависеть от российских ракетных двигателей
    11:17 30.06.2015
    МОСКВА, 30 июн — РИА Новости. Пентагон сможет обзавестись собственным работоспособным двигателем не ранее чем через десять лет, поэтому любые попытки отказаться от использования российского РД-180 прямо сейчас нанесут урон национальной безопасности Соединенных Штатов, пишет деловое издание The Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB12367224787933994021304581062191281870326).
    .....
    "Согласно декабрьскому законопроекту, новый американский ракетный двигатель должен быть готов к 2019 году. ULA объявила о том, что она займется разработкой нового двигателя и новой ракеты, которая должна заменить Atlas V в ближайшем будущем. Многие эксперты сомневаются в этом, поскольку, даже если компании удастся соблюсти сроки, к этому моменту у них не будет двигателей РД-180", — пишет WSJ. Также предприятие объявило об остановке производства ракет Delta IV.
    .....
    Специализированный портал Defense Tech (http://defensetech.org/2015/06/26/pentagon-will-rely-on-russian-rocket-engines-for-years/) отмечает, что другой претендент на разработку двигателей для Пентагона — частная компания Blue Origin — также тратит большие средства на разработку проекта ракетного двигателя BE-4, который, по словам президента компании Боба Мейерсона, будет готов к эксплуатации в 2019 году. Тем не менее глава космического командования ВВС США генерал Джон Хайтен заявляет, что процесс сертификации новых двигателей может занять до двух лет, что означает, что любая ракета Atlas V, оснащенная новым двигателем, будет запущена не ранее 2021 года.

    указанные источники
    Цитироватьhttp://defensetech.org/2015/06/26/pentagon-will-rely-on-russian-rocket-engines-for-years/
    .....Blue Origin LLC, the private aerospace company funded by Amazon​.com founder and billionaire Jeff Bezos, has spent a significant amount of its own money developing a possible design, called the BE-4, which will be ready to fly in 2019, according to Rob Meyerson, president of the company. (A precursor  successfully lifted off (http://defensetech.org/2015/05/01/bezos-rocket-may-end-u-s-reliance-on-russian-engine/) earlier this year.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne, the incumbent engine-maker, is some 16 months behind that schedule, an official said. But it plans on having a certified propulsion system, known as the AR-1, around the same time, according to Julie Van Kleeck, vice president of advanced space and launch programs at the company.
    Nevertheless, Gen. John Hyten, the head of Air Force Space Command, said it would probably take another year or two after that point to complete the certification process. That means any Atlas 5 rocket outfitted with a new main engine may not be ready until 2021 or later.....

    WSJ долго по ссылке выбивал денег на подписку, но
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB12367224787933994021304581062191281870326
    http://www.pressreader.com/belgium/the-wall-street-journal-europe/20150701/281758447945069/TextView
    ЦитироватьBy WILLIAM SHELTON.....
    The December legislation also mandated that a new American rocket engine be ready by 2019. United Launch Alliance has announced that it will develop a new engine, and a new rocket, to replace the Atlas V, and will do so on time. Many experts are dubious about this timetable. Yet even if United Launch Alliance can meet the deadline, it will run out of RD-180 engines well before its new rocket is ready. United Launch Alliance has also announced that it will stop production of its far more expensive Delta IV (with the exception of a variant that can lift the heaviest U.S. satellites).
    ну Дельту 4 не сразу под нож... хорошенько там монополию упоминули.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 27.07.2015 20:29:06
    http://spacenews.com/air-force-says-ula-will-need-18-22-rd-180s-to-compete-with-spacex/
    ЦитироватьAir Force Says ULA Will Need 18-22 RD-180s To Compete with SpaceX
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — July 27, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155408.jpg)
    U.S. Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James told lawmakers in April United Launch Alliance would need at least 18 Russian engines to remain competitive. Credit: U.S. Air Force/Jim Varhegyi  
     
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Air Force contends United Launch Alliance needs as many as 22 RD-180 rocket engines to compete against SpaceX for dozens of national security launches that start going out for bid later this year, according to a U.S. senator.
    ULA has ordered 29 RD-180 engines fr om Russia for its Atlas 5 rocket. Fifteen of those engines are for Air Force launches already under contract. The remaining 14 are what ULA has said it needs to import in order to compete for military launches until its next generation rocket, known as Vulcan and powered by a U.S.-made engine, is ready around 2020.
    The Air Force plans to begin soliciting bids later this year for an initial batch of nine missions, all of which Air Force officials say Atlas 5 is suited to launch. A further 28 missions will be put out for bid starting in 2018, with 25 of those suited to the Atlas 5.
    Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James told the Senate Armed Services strategic forces subcommittee in April that ULA needs to be allowed to buy 18 RD-180 engines for missions not already under contract in order to ensure the government receives competing bids when it buys launch services over the next several years.
    But the Air Force now appears to be revising that estimate upward, complicating its quest for relief from a 2015 law barring the RD-180's use for future military launches.
    Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), a senior member of the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee, told James in a July 15 letter that Air Force leaders, including Gen. Mark Welsh, the service's chief of staff, told him ULA needed to be allowed to buy 18 to 22 engines to maintain uninterrupted access to space and ensure competition.
    Responding on James' behalf the next day, Bill LaPlante, the assistant secretary of the Air Force for acquisition, told Shelby that 18 engines "is a reasonable starting point" for enabling competition while ensuring national security payloads do not get stranded on the ground by a single launch failure.
    "As the competitive environment develops and evolves, we will re-assess the number of engines required to ensure we maintain assured access to space," LaPlante wrote in his July 16 letter.
    The Air Force is required by law to phase out its use of the RD-180 under legislation Congress enacted last year following Russia's incursion into Ukraine.
    Specifically, the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act bars the Defense Department from entering into new contracts or modifying existing contracts for launch services with companies that rely on Russian suppliers.
    Because ULA has only partially paid for the 14 engines it ordered from the RD-180's Florida-based importer RD-Amross in anticipation of winning new Air Force business, Pentagon lawyers have said a strict interpretation of the law could lim it ULA to using just five of those engines for the upcoming launch competitions.
    That could eventually create a new national security launch monopoly in SpaceX, the Air Force has said.
    Both ULA and the Air Force have asked Congress for legislative relief to prevent Atlas 5 from being disqualified from all but a small handful of upcoming launch awards.
    While lawmakers appear inclined to grant it, the House and Senate are at odds over how much relief to give.
    The House in May approved a defense authorization bill that would permit ULA to use all 14 on-order engines for the competitions. The Senate version of the same bill, approved in June, allows only nine. The difference is a major sticking point between leaders of the two chambers, although Capitol Hill sources expect the Senate position to prevail when the bill emerges from conference.
    Neither bill, however, grants ULA the leeway to ride an RD-180-powered Atlas 5 as far into the competition as ULA and the Air Force would like.
    That is OK with Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, who has been keeping the pressure on the Air Force to end its dependence on the RD-180.
    ULA says it is committed to phasing out the RD-180 and switching to Vulcan, a next-generation rocket featuring a main engine being developed by Kent, Washington-based Blue Origin.
    But Vulcan is not expected to make its debut before 2019 and win certification to launch military payloads until 2022. That schedule, ULA has said, assumes no technical setbacks and that ULA does not find itself a few years from now on sitting on the sidelines with no Atlas 5 and a Delta 4 it admits is too expensive to give SpaceX's Falcon 9 a run for the Air Force's money.
    If Congress does not give the Air Force the relief it thinks it needs to keep Atlas 5 in the game, the service could ask the U.S. secretary of defense for a waiver.
    The 2015 law stipulates that a waiver is to be used for "the national security interests of the United States" and when space launch services could not otherwise be obtained at a fair and reasonable price.
    Air Force officials have been studying how and when to potentially use the waiver.
    But for now, the Air Force is focusing on getting Congress to change the law.
    "The Department is working closely with Congress to request some relief from the FY15 [National Defense Authorization Act] language in order to guarantee assured access to space while maintaining a competitive environment, while also transitioning expediently off Russian-made engines," Capt. Annmarie Annicelli, an Air Force spokeswoman, said in a July 22 email to SpaceNews.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 05.08.2015 08:21:10
    http://spacenews.com/ulas-swiss-supplier-to-build-rocket-parts-in-alabama/
    ЦитироватьULA's Swiss Supplier To Build Rocket Parts in Alabama
    by Peter B. de Selding (http://spacenews.com/author/peter-b-de-selding/) — August 4, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155524.png)
    Final assembly of payload fairings at Ruag Space in Emmen, Switzerland. Credit: Ruag Space  
     
    PARIS — Swiss rocket-component builder Ruag is opening a production line at customer United Launch Alliance's Alabama facility to replace capacity in Switzerland used to build parts for ULA's Atlas 5 rocket and to prepare for ULA's new Vulcan vehicle, ULA and Ruag announced.
    Zurich-based Ruag said the move is a result of a strategic partnership with Centennial, Colorado-based ULA that will satisfy a long-standing Ruag ambition to tap into the U.S. market for government launches.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155523.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/RUAG_fairing_finishing-touches-e1438715241984.jpg)
    Final assembly of an Ariane 5 payload fairing at Ruag Space in Emmen, Switzerland. Credit: Ruag Space

    "We have been looking to expand our market presence in the U.S. for years," Ruag said in an Aug. 4 statement in response to SpaceNews queries. "However, it has always been a chicken-and-egg problem. To establish a facility in the U.S., you need enough work, which is not so easy to get if you have no footprint in the U.S. The strategic partnership includes not only our current work for Atlas, but also contributions to the Vulcan. It is a big step for us."
    Ruag has been working with ULA for a decade. In a role similar to what it does as part of Europe's Ariane rocket program, the company provides the Atlas 5 rocket's 5.4-meter payload fairing and an inter-stage adapter at facilities located in Zurich and Emmon, Switzerland.
    With an equivalent work share, focused on carbon-fiber structures, planned for ULA's future Vulcan, Ruag now has enough guaranteed business to make the move. The company said it will be hiring 100 new employees in Decatur by 2019 in addition to a small contingent of current Ruag specialists who will make the move.
    Ruag declined to disclose the expected capital investment it will make in the Decatur facility, but said its current work on the Ariane 5 heavy-lift rocket, and the Italian-led Vega light-class vehicle, will remain at the existing Swiss facilities.
    ULA has announced the start of work on a new rocket, called Vulcan, that pending final funding decisions is scheduled to make a first flight in 2019. Unlike ULA's current Delta and Atlas rockets, Vulcan is part of a design-to-cost initiative that ULA hopes will reduce costs and position the company for commercial as well as U.S. government business.
    "ULA has also made a business decision to switch from a metallic four-meter fairing to a newer-technology composite 4.4-meter fairing in order to capture more commercial market business," Ruag said. "The Vulcain composite 4.4-meter fairing, designed by Ruag, will be built in Decatur to support a first flight in 2019."
    Europe's future Ariane 6 rocket, scheduled to enter service in 2020, is expected to use a Ruag-built upper compartment including the payload fairing and inter-stage adapter. The company is building a new facility in Emmen for the Ariane 6 work to permit more-efficient production.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 07.08.2015 19:39:58
    http://spacenews.com/echostar-books-a-commercial-atlas-5-for-jupiter-2/
    ЦитироватьEchoStar Explains Why Jupiter-2 is Launching on Atlas instead of Ariane
    by Peter B. de Selding (http://spacenews.com/author/peter-b-de-selding/) — August 6, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155487.jpg)
    The EchoStar 17 /Jupiter-1 satellite. Credit: Space Systems Loral  
     
    PARIS — EchoStar Corp. on Aug. 6 said its satellite consumer broadband subscriber base surpassed 1 million in the three months ending June 30, a milestone that likely would have occurred earlier if it had additional satellite capacity in orbit.
    The pressure to launch more capacity to capture unmet demand in the most promising regions of the United States, where the company's satellite beams are filled to capacity, was the chief reason EchoStar moved to launch its EchoStar 19/Jupiter-2 Ka-band satellite aboard a Lockheed Martin Atlas 5 rocket.
    The launch, to occur in late 2016, replaces earlier EchoStar plans to use Europe's Ariane 5 rocket for the satellite. Evry, France-based Arianespace has said it has no openings for large satellites like EchoStar 19/Jupiter-2 in the second half of 2016.
    Given that the satellite will not be ready for a launch before July 2016, Englewood, Colorado-based EchoStar contracted with Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services for an Atlas 5, built by United Launch Alliance of Centennial, Colorado.
    In an Aug. 6 conference call with investors, EchoStar Chief Executive Michael T. Dugan suggested that EchoStar 19/Jupiter-2's final launch weight is likely to increase beyond original estimates, which could have made an Ariane 5 launch more difficult.
    The Atlas 5 rocket typically launches one satellite at a time, which is sometimes an advantage when compared to the Ariane 5, whose business model relies on placing two satellites at a time into geostationary transfer orbit.
    With the Atlas 5's full power dedicated to a single satellite customer, the rocket is often able to offer geostationary-orbit customers a longer in-orbit satellite life because of a more-favorable drop-off point when the satellite separates fr om the rocket.
    EchoStar had hinted earlier this year that the satellite's construction schedule might make launcher selection problematic.
    EchoStar has a multi-launch agreement in place with Arianespace, an agreement that remains unchanged following the decision to use Atlas 5 for EchoStar 19/Jupiter-2, Arianespace Chief Executive Stephane Israel said.
    In an Aug. 6 interview, Israel said Arianepace had been fully engaged with EchoStar as the satellite's construction schedule became clearer and was neither surprised nor troubled by the Atlas decision.
    "We highly value EchoStar as a long-term customer, and we are happy they have found a way to get to orbit when they need to," Israel said. "Our manifest for the second half of 2016 is full, especially for large satellites like this one. We were proactive with them in this transfer. It is a responsibility of launch-service providers to look for manifest optimization when it's for the benefit of the customers."
    The Ariane 5 satellite pairing places the heavier satellite in the upper berth, with the lower berth reserved for the smaller of the two spacecraft. The Ariane 5's performance limits can be tinkered with depending on the requirements of a given launch but generally speaking, a heavier-than-usual larger satellite means Arianespace must find a lighter smaller co-passenger.
    EchoStar will be paying more for the Atlas 5 launch than for an Ariane 5, but the additional in-orbit life and above all the confirmed 2016 launch date more than made up for that, EchoStar officials said during the call.
    Anders N. Johnson, president of EchoStar Satellite Services, said an Atlas 5 also affords savings on launch-insurance premiums. In recent years, as both Atlas and Ariane 5 have logged flawless records, insurance officials have said there is no difference between the premiums assigned to the two rockets.
    Pradman P. Kaul, president of EchoStar's Hughes Network Systems division, said the company's consumer broadband business continues to add subscribers despite the fully booked beams by focusing on regions of the United States wh ere there is less demand and tailoring services packages to them.
    "We are not cutting back on sales and marketing," Kaul said during the conference call.
    As of June 30, Hughes' consumer broadband service had 1,014,000 subscribers, up 15,000 from March 31. Once EchoStar 19/Jupiter-2 is in service, he said – about six moths after launch – the business will return to higher growth rates.
    Kaul said the Atlas 5 launch means Hughes will be in service with its higher-speed satellite before competitor ViaSat Inc. of Carlsbad, California, deploys its ViaSat-2, which is set for tentatively set for launch in late 2016 aboard a SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket.
    Falcon Heavy has yet to fly and the June 28 failure of a Falcon 9 rocket has pushed the inaugural Falcon Heavy flight into 2016. ViaSat has said it will be on the second or third Falcon Heavy.
    EchoStar officials said they had yet to settle on a detailed business plan for their S-band mobile satellite, called EchoStar 21, that is scheduled for launch in 2016. Johnson said the company is focusing on meeting the regulatory requirements of the European Commission and the 28 nations of the European Union, each of which must approve licenses.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 06.09.2015 06:48:41
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/57183)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 06.09.2015 09:07:07
    ЦитироватьАлександр Ч. пишет:

    Речь об ACES.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 06.09.2015 10:42:52
    Да, так и есть. Сорри за неуточнение  :oops:
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 11.09.2015 17:40:29
    ULA and Blue Origin Announce Production Agreement for American-Made BE-4 Engine (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-blue-origin-BE-4-production-agreement.aspx)
    ЦитироватьCentennial, Colo. and Kent, Wash. – Sept. 10, 2015 – United Launch Alliance (ULA), the nation's premier space launch company, and Blue Origin, LLC, a privately-funded aerospace company owned by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, announced today the signing of an agreement to expand production capabilities for the American-made BE-4 engine that will power the Vulcan next generation launch system. 

    The BE-4 engine offers the fastest path to a domestic alternative to the Russian RD-180. Development is on schedule to achieve qualification for flight in 2017 to support the first Vulcan flight in 2019. 

    "This agreement gets us closer to having an affordable, domestic and innovative engine that will help the Vulcan rocket exceed the capability of the Atlas V on its first flight and open brand new opportunities for the nation's use of space," said Tory Bruno, president and chief executive officer of ULA. "This partnership enables each company to leverage its strengths, with ULA bringing production excellence and mission assurance, and Blue Origin bringing innovative engineering concepts and a commitment to lowering the cost of spaceflight." 

    "The BE-4 engine test program is well underway with more than 60 staged-combustion tests already on the books," said Jeff Bezos, founder of Blue Origin. "This new agreement is an important step toward building BE-4s at the production rate needed for the Vulcan launch vehicle."

    The Vulcan rocket brings together decades of experience on ULA's reliable Atlas and Delta vehicles, combining the best features of each to produce an all-new, American-made rocket that will enable mission success from low Earth orbit all the way to Pluto.  

    The BE-4 is a liquid oxygen, liquefied natural gas (LNG) rocket engine that delivers 550,000-lbf of thrust at sea level. Two BE-4s would power each ULA Vulcan booster, providing 1,100,000-lbf thrust at liftoff.  ULA is teaming in the development of the BE-4 to enable availability for national security, civil, human and commercial missions. Development of the BE-4 engine has been underway for more than three years and testing of the BE-4 components is ongoing at Blue Origin's test facilities in West Texas.  

    About United Launch Alliance 
    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 95 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system. 

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com. Join the conversation atwww.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch), and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).

    About Blue Origin
    Blue Origin, LLC (Blue Origin) is a private company developing vehicles and technologies to enable commercial human space transportation. Blue Origin has a long-term vision of greatly increasing the number of people that fly into space so that we humans can better continue exploring the solar system.  For more information and a list of job openings, please visit us at www.blueorigin.com (https://www.blueorigin.com/). 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.09.2015 17:48:56
    Это типа гарбуза для Аэроджета.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 11.09.2015 18:03:02
    Эк прототип вдохновил Безоса.
    Ну-с, а Аэроджет таки  имеет козырь в рукаве.
    И, пожалуй, не один  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.09.2015 19:18:47
    На форуме NSF пишут что сделка сорвалась. Вроде инсайд.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 16.09.2015 18:35:10
    ЦитироватьColin Clark ‏@ColinDefense  (https://twitter.com/ColinDefense) 4 мин.4 минуты назад (https://twitter.com/ColinDefense/status/644172908072423424)
    Chris Chadwick, Boeing defense CEO, tells reporters @ #ASC15 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ASC15?src=hash) that his company has no interest in $2B Aerojet bid for #ULA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ULA?src=hash).
    То бишь Боингу предложение Аэроджет не интересно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 16.09.2015 19:37:40
    В WSJ недавно была статья Энди Пастора, что якобы по слухам локхид хотел продать, а Боинг нет. Но возможно это был просто вброс самого аэроджета.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 16.09.2015 20:46:30
    http://spacenews.com/two-top-boeing-executives-dismiss-aerojets-ula-bid/#sthash.0WHLeXmb.dpuf
    ЦитироватьWASHINGTON — Two senior Boeing executives, speaking Sept. 16 at conferences on separate continents, said the company is not seriously considering Aerojet Rocketdyne Holding's $2 billion offer for United Launch Alliance, the government launch contractor Boeing jointly owns with Lockheed Martin.
    "ULA is a huge part of our strategic portfolio going forward along with our satellites and manned space business. This bid we've really not spent much time on it at all because we're focusing on a totally different direction," Chris Chadwick, president and chief executive officer of Boeing Defense, Space & Security told reporters Sept. 16 at the Air Force Association's annual technology expo in National Harbor, Maryland.
    Craig Cooning, president of Boeing Network and Space Systems, speaking in Paris at Euroconsult's World Satellite Business Week conference, made similar remarks Sept. 16, saying ULA's parent companies aren't taking the bid seriously.
    ЦитироватьBoeing's Cooning says ULA's parent companies do not take Aerojet's bid for rocket maker seriously. #WSBW (https://twitter.com/hashtag/WSBW?src=hash)
    — Warren Ferster (@Ferster_SN) September 16, 2015 (https://twitter.com/Ferster_SN/status/644154732584529920)
    Chadwick told reporters Boeing is giving "no serious consideration" to Aerojet Rocketdyne's offer, news of which broke Sept. 8. Aerojet, Boeing, Lockheed, and ULA  officials  previously had declined to confirm that an offer had been made for Centennial, Colorado-based ULA.
    "It's not even in our expanse of thought in this period of time," Chadwick said. "Ninety-nine consecutive launches without an incident. We're the best in industry. Others are trying to obtain the record we have. We're focusing on the customer."
    Chadwick said ULA's focus remains on developing Vulcan, an Atlas 5 successor that would be powered by Blue Origin's BE-4 rocket engine.
    "You saw our announcement with Blue Origin and that's the path we're going to move down," Chadwick said. "We think we have a real good competitive position and we're committed to the longterm."
    SpaceNews Executive Editor Warren Ferster contributed to this report from Paris.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 17.09.2015 13:18:53
    Вулкан... за 134 секунды
    https://youtu.be/SqCTK7BmLHA
    https://youtu.be/SqCTK7BmLHA (https://youtu.be/SqCTK7BmLHA)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 17.09.2015 15:17:15
    ЦитироватьAir пишет:
    Сделал картинку по существующему проекту поставки РД-180 для "Атлас 5". Я правильно понимаю, что это скоро будет историей? После 2019 года американские ракеты будут стартовать на двигателях собственной разработки?
    Очевидно, что все купленные РД-180 слетают в ULA. Это не до 2019.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 17.09.2015 14:53:56
    А тем временем сам Безос делает ходы:
    ЦитироватьГлава Amazon купил стартовую площадку для ракет на мысе Канаверал
    http://lenta.ru/news/2015/09/16/bezosspace/
    Глава интернет-магазина Amazon.com Джефф Безос (Jeff Bezos) рассказал о своих планах освоения космоса: Blue Origin, стартап миллиардера, собирается инвестировать 200 миллионов долларов в производственные мощности и стартовую площадку №36 на базе ВВС США на мысе Канаверал. Об этом со ссылкой на пресс-конференцию Безоса сообщает BBC News.
    В отличие от Илона Маска, Безос крайне скупо сообщает прессе о своих планах по освоению космоса. В апреле в Техасе Blue Origin успешно провела испытания (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/30/amazon/) суборбитального летательного аппарата New Shepard: хотя ракетный двигатель не вернулся на землю под управлением оператора, как планировалось, капсула для астронавтов успешно осуществила мягкую посадку (с помощью парашюта).


    На «космическом побережье» Флориды Безос собирается испытывать ракетный двигатель на жидком метане (кодовое название — Blue Engine-4), разработку которого ему заказало предприятие United Launch Alliance (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance). Этот двигатель планируется установить на ракетах-носителях нового поколения Vulcan. Blue Engine-4 также будет установлен на собственных орбитальных ракетах Blue Origin.
    Изначально космическое предприятие Безоса размещалось в Вашингтоне (округ Колумбия), однако закрытие программы шаттлов и высвободившиеся в результате этого рабочие места привлекли бизнесмена во Флориду. Первоначальные инвестиции (200 миллионов долларов) должны создать около 300 рабочих мест.
    Кроме того, отметил Безос в своем блоге (https://www.blueorigin.com/news), на его решение повлиял детский восторг по поводу мощнейших в истории космонавтики ракет-носителейSaturn V (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BD-5), которые взлетали с мыса Канаверал в 1966-1973 годах.
    Прибытие компании Безоса во Флориду еще более обострит конкуренцию с Илоном Маском. Space X Маска уже запускает орбитальные ракеты с базы ВВС США на мысе Канаверал. Кроме того, Безос и Маск вели спор о том, кто получит доступ к стартовой площадке шаттлов 39А, расположенной на территории Космического центра имени Кеннеди (также во Флориде).

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 17.09.2015 17:05:36
    Только не для ULA, но, возможно, на их деньги.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.09.2015 16:10:10
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    хотя ракетный двигатель не вернулся на землю под управлением оператора, как планировалось
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    Безос собирается испытывать ракетный двигатель на жидком метане (кодовое название — Blue Engine-4), разработку которого ему заказало предприятие United Launch Alliance (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Launch_Alliance) .
    В охумору.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 17.09.2015 17:12:46
    Это же Лента и про 39A туда же
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 23.09.2015 10:17:34
    ЦитироватьULA ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 13 ч.13 часов назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/646383907471011840)
    ULA selects @OrbitalATK (https://twitter.com/OrbitalATK) to provide solid rocket boosters for #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) and #VulcanRocket (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanRocket?src=hash) http://bit.ly/1Mouy5Y  (http://t.co/2jawrQv2p8)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158678.png) (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/646383907471011840/photo/1)
    Еще одна потеря для Aerojet.
    Цитата из текста по ссылке:
    ЦитироватьDevelopment of the new solid rocket boosters will commence immediately to support their introduction on ULA's Atlas V vehicle in late 2018 and on ULA's Vulcan vehicle in mid-2019. Vulcan, ULA's next generation launch vehicle, is anticipated to transform the future of space launch for the government and commercial market, making it more affordable, accessible and commercially available.

    "Our ability to deliver critical national security, scientific and commercial satellites into the correct orbit for each mission is filled with risks and challenges, and ULA has delivered every time," said Bruno. "This reliability will continue as we develop the right vehicle with the right team."

    The new solid motor booster agreement expands the long-term relationship between ULA and Orbital ATK that already includes the supply of composite structures, nozzles, propellant tanks and booster separation motors for the current versions of Delta IV and Atlas V rockets. In addition, ULA will supply two Atlas rockets to provide launch services for Orbital ATK's Cygnus spacecraft on cargo delivery missions to the International Space Station for NASA in late 2015 and early 2016. Orbital ATK is also developing a fully integrated third stage to launch NASA's Solar Probe Plus mission on ULA's Delta IV Heavy rocket in 2018. 
    Новые SRB для Atlas V в конце 2018 и для Vulcan в середине 2019.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 23.09.2015 07:36:33
    Интересно с какими параметрами - GEM 60 поменьш атласных будет. А вот про третью ступень для дорого зонда - интересно. Хотя если надо легкий зонд разогнать побыстрее - вполне нормальное решение
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.09.2015 11:24:12
    ЦитироватьFrode Stokseth ‏@FrodeStokseth  11h11 hours ago
    @ulalaunch @torybruno new booster performance increased or same? If increased: Already in previous vulcan estimates or added on top?

    Tory Bruno Verified account ‏@torybruno
    @FrodeStokseth @ulalaunch Consistent with original Vulcan announcement.  Substantial reduction in cost
    ТТУ Орбитал АТК значительно дешевле.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.09.2015 11:32:03
    http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20150922006303/en/United-Launch-Alliance-Selects-Orbital-ATK-Provide#.VgJj4fntlBc

    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Selects Orbital ATK to Provide Solid Boosters for Atlas V and Vulcan Launch Vehicles

    CENTENNIAL, Colo. & DULLES, Va.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Today United Launch Alliance (ULA) and Orbital ATK, Inc. (NYSE: OA) announced a long-term strategic partnership in which Orbital ATK will become the sole provider of solid rocket boosters for ULA's Atlas V and Vulcan launch vehicles, effective in 2019 when the new motors are ready for launch.


    "As ULA transforms the space lift industry, strong partners such as Orbital ATK are critical to reducing cost, introducing cutting-edge innovation and continuing our focus on mission success," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "We have relied for decades on Orbital ATK's industry leading rocket motor technology, which is ideally suited to support our future rocket launch plans."

    Under this partnership, Orbital ATK is investing in the design, development and qualification of two new rocket motors with design similarities to each other that leverage the company's proven solid motor technology. These motors will significantly lower the price to ULA and to the U.S. government. They will be used to support launches of ULA's Atlas V and Vulcan vehicles and will also be commercially available to support other customers.

    "With this strategic partnership, ULA and Orbital ATK will offer customers better value and reliable access to space," said David W. Thompson, president and CEO of Orbital ATK. "The capabilities and technology of the newly-merged Orbital ATK enabled us to expand the partnership with ULA to help lower costs and maintain the highest standards of mission assurance."

    Development of the new solid rocket boosters will commence immediately to support their introduction on ULA's Atlas V vehicle in late 2018 and on ULA's Vulcan vehicle in mid-2019. Vulcan, ULA's next generation launch vehicle, is anticipated to transform the future of space launch for the government and commercial market, making it more affordable, accessible and commercially available.

    "Our ability to deliver critical national security, scientific and commercial satellites into the correct orbit for each mission is filled with risks and challenges, and ULA has delivered every time," said Bruno. "This reliability will continue as we develop the right vehicle with the right team."

    The new solid motor booster agreement expands the long-term relationship between ULA and Orbital ATK that already includes the supply of composite structures, nozzles, propellant tanks and booster separation motors for the current versions of Delta IV and Atlas V rockets. In addition, ULA will supply two Atlas rockets to provide launch services for Orbital ATK's Cygnus spacecraft on cargo delivery missions to the International Space Station for NASA in late 2015 and early 2016. Orbital ATK is also developing a fully integrated third stage to launch NASA's Solar Probe Plus mission on ULA's Delta IV Heavy rocket in 2018.

    ULA has a strong heritage in providing reliable space access for government and commercial entitles under the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program. The EELV program was established by the United States Air Force to provide assured access to space for Department of Defense and other government payloads. The company recently marked the 99th successful one-at-a-time launch since the company was formed in December 2006.

    ТТУ будут новые, а не от Дельты-4.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 24.09.2015 10:11:14
    http://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/ula/ula-selects-orbital-atks-gem-6363-xl-srbs-for-atlas-v-and-vulcan-boosters/

    ЦитироватьULA SELECTS ORBITAL ATK'S GEM 63/63 XL SRBS FOR ATLAS V AND VULCAN BOOSTERS


    Colorado-based United Launch Alliance (ULA (http://www.ulalaunch.com/)) announced on Sept. 22, 2015, that it had sel ected Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) produced by Orbital ATK on the venerable Atlas V and forthcoming Vulcan launch systems. The GEM 63 will replace Aerojet Rocketdyne's AJ-60A SRBs on upcoming flights of the Atlas V, and the XL version of the booster has been sel ected to aid certain versions of Vulcan aloft. 
    According to statements from Orbital ATK and ULA representatives to SpaceFlight Insider, the SRBs will be ready to support flights as early as 2019 – when ULA currently plans to have the first flight of Vulcan take place.
    "We'll have the GEM 63 static-fired and qualified in late 2018... and I think that would equate to an initial launch with GEM-63s in 2019, probably early that year," Orbital ATK's (http://www.orbitalatk.com/) Program Manager for GEM 63/63 XL Jason Meredith told SpaceFlight Insider.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/234648.png)
    Although the solid rocket boosters in this image bear a resemblance to the AJ-60A, it now appears that the GEM 63XL will provide the extra lift requirements of the Vulcan system.
    Image Credit: ULA


    According to Meredith, both the GEM 63 and 63XL should be ready to support missions by the end of 2018. These two motors will have one substantial difference, owing to the size of the rockets on which they will be utilized.
    "We are continuing the development process, as it is fairly early for the Vulcan, but right now, we're talking about a difference that's on the order of about five feet in length [between the 63 and the 63 XL], hence the 'XL' in the motor's name," Meredith said.
    ULA is working to have the Vulcan booster to be certified and ready to send payloads to orbit for customers such as the U.S. Department of Defense (once Vulcan has been approved to fly under the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program), NASA, and commercial satellite firms. The new launch system employs many elements that currently fly on the Atlas V and Delta IV
    Both ULA and Orbital ATK noted that having one family of SRBs, with variants in place that can be flown on all of the families of boosters fielded by ULA, was a key consideration behind today's announcement.
    "There will be a lot of commonality between the two boosters. The strap-on motors there will be called the GEM 63 and the GEM 63XL. The GEM 63 will be designed to provide the performance to the Atlas V that is delivered to date [by the AJ-60A]. So, it is a 'drop-in' replacement. Whereas [with] the GEM 63XL, we're working closely with ULA to develop that strap-on booster to meet the performance requirements of the Vulcan launch vehicle," said Orbital ATK's Jason Meredith.
    Meredith noted the similarities between the 63 and 63XL can be traced back to another SRB produced by Orbital ATK – the GEM 60 (which is currently used on ULA's Delta IV family of rockets).
    ULA was asked as to what caused the Launch Service Provider opted to move away fr om the Aerojet Rocketdyne's AJ-60A (http://www.rocket.com/atlas-v-solid-rocket-motor) and toward the new GEM 63.
    "Orbital ATK is the best option for Atlas V and Vulcan. We've carefully reviewed all of our options," ULA's Lyn Chassagne said.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/234644.jpg)
    The Gem 63/63XL will be based on Orbital ATK's GEM-60 solid rocket boosters. Photo Credit: Jared Haworth / SpaceFlight Insider


    Besides its experience with the GEM 60, Orbital ATK also has experience in other, far larger solid rocket motors (the firm produced the four segment boosters for NASA's Space Shuttle Program and is currently developing a five-segment version for NASA's new Space Launch System super heavy-lift booster).
    While there are similarities between the Atlas V and Vulcan launch vehicles, there are enough differences to require that two distinct SRBs be produced.
    "From our perspective, to meet the requirements of the Vulcan launch systems, we did have to, I'll say, 'super-size' – increase the size of the 63 – to meet those requirements that we're working on with ULA for Vulcan," Meredith noted.
    From the perspective of Orbital ATK, the selection to go with the GEM 63 was tied to one of the most crucial concerns of the NewSpace era – cost.
    "Part of what we see is the opportunity for lower-cost on the Vulcan launch vehicle – is the synergy in providing both of those strap-on boosters – for both the Atlas V and Vulcan and so that was part of what we discussed with ULA... as they move work to transition fr om the Atlas V to Vulcan. That's part of the low-cost solution that we provided ULA for their SRB requirements."
    Representatives with United Launch Alliance noted in a release, co-issued by the two companies, that risk mitigation and continuing the successful track record that the Atlas V currently enjoys also played its part in Tuesday's announcement.
    "Our ability to deliver critical national security, scientific, and commercial satellites into the correct orbit for each mission is filled with risks and challenges, and ULA has delivered every time," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "This reliability will continue as we develop the right vehicle with the right team."
    This announcement serves to underline other agreements between the two aerospace firms. ULA has already been tapped to provide two Atlas V 401 boosters to hoist Orbital ATK's Cygnus spacecraft out of Earth's gravity well and on their way to the International Space Station under the $1.9 billion Commercial Resupply Services agreement Orbital ATK has with NASA – the first flight is currently slated for Dec. 3, 2015, and the second flight sometime in 2016.
    When asked about what prompted ULA to select the GEM 63, Meredith reiterated that the need to keep costs to a minimum, as well as having the same firm produce both boosters, played a role in the decision-making process. A view underscored by Bruno.
    "As ULA transforms the space lift industry, strong partners such as Orbital ATK are critical to reducing cost, introducing cutting-edge innovation and continuing our focus on mission success," Bruno said. "We have relied for decades on Orbital ATK's industry leading rocket motor technology, which is ideally suited to support our future rocket launch plans."
    If used in a similar fashion as the AJ-60A, the GEM 63 would likely be used in various configurations (between 0–5 of the SRBs being used) on the Atlas V. When one considers some of the similar characteristics between the Atlas V and Vulcan systems, it is likely that similar configurations could be used. These boosters are employed when the upmass requirements of a payload require more thrust. Dependent on the weight of these spacecraft, different numbers of the GEM 63XL will be affixed to the Vulcan's first stage.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 25.09.2015 02:32:40
    Вот же халява, хорошо когда в стране есть 2 фирмы делающие ТТУ. Не понравилась одна, перешёл на другую.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 24.09.2015 17:40:34
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Вот же халява, хорошо когда в стране есть 2 фирмы делающие ТТУ. Не понравилась одна, перешёл на другую.
    Такими темпами скоро одна останется.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 24.09.2015 18:15:48
    ну реально ATK делает ТТУ в разы больше всех остальных вместе взятых
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 26.09.2015 17:30:55
    Просто фото с макетами:
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185686.jpg)Zach Kromer‏@Astro_Zach (https://twitter.com/Astro_Zach)
    @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158667.jpg)
     (https://twitter.com/Astro_Zach/status/647758208065343488/photo/1)16:02 - 26 сент. 2015 г.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 27.09.2015 15:00:36
    с макетами чего??? а, это дельта 2 и дельта 4?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 28.09.2015 05:46:40
    Видел ULA презентацию со всевозможными сочетаниями модулей и бустеров, там на хэви собирались цеплять ТТУ бустеры. Но судя по всему эти планы все.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 28.09.2015 14:42:38
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    с макетами чего??? а, это дельта 2 и дельта 4?
    Впереди вторая и третья, перс обнимается с четвертыми, М+ и Хеви.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 28.09.2015 19:08:10
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Вот же халява, хорошо когда в стране есть 2 фирмы делающие ТТУ. Не понравилась одна, перешёл на другую.
    У европейцев то же. Есть итальянцы, а есть французы. И они соперничают, хотя в Италии началось с лицензионного производства старой французской разработки. Эти ТТУ существенно разные теперь.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 30.09.2015 15:36:00
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance, a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) and Boeing Co (BA.N), has won an $882 million contract to continue launching satellites for the U.S. Air Force with its Delta IV and Atlas V rockets, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

    The U.S. Defense Department said the contract covers launch capability, mission integration, base and range support, maintenance, depreciation on equipment, mission assurance, program management, systems engineering, and launch site and range operations during fiscal year 2016, which begins Oct. 1.

    Air Force and company officials had no immediate comment on how many rocket launches would be included in the contract.

    Separately, U.S. lawmakers on Tuesday released a compromise version of the $612 billion defense authorization bill for fiscal 2016 that would allow ULA to use a total of nine more Russian-built RD-180 rocket engines to compete for military and spy satellite launch contracts using its Atlas V rockets.

    ULA and Air Force officials had urged lawmakers to relax a ban on use of the engines imposed last year after Russia annexed the Crimea region of Ukraine, to bridge the time until ULA is ready to start flying its new U.S.-powered Vulcan rocket.

    The fiscal 2015 defense authorization bill had allowed ULA to use just five engines, but the new bill would add four more.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/30/us-lockheed-martin-boeing-ula-idUSKCN0RT2V120150930
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 30.09.2015 23:11:49
    ЦитироватьDefense Bill Limits ULA to 9 More Russian-built Engines
     
    by Warren Ferster — September 30, 2015

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155416.jpg)
    The Senate Armed Services Committee's version of the 2016 NDAA, which exempted a total of nine RD-180 engines, prevailed in the compromise bill hashed out by House and Senate conferees. Credit: ULA

    WASHINGTON — U.S. House and Senate negotiators completed work Sept. 29 on a defense authorization bill for 2016 that gives government launch services provider United Launch Alliance access to far fewer Russian-made engines than the company says it needs to stay viable in its core national security market as it develops a new rocket featuring a domestic propulsion system.
    The National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for Fiscal Year 2016, which pending passage in both houses of Congress will be sent to U.S. President Barack Obama to be signed into law, also would end annual U.S. Air Force payments to ULA that critics have long branded as a subsidy.
    The Air Force, meanwhile, recently made what presumably is the last such payment, an $882 million Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) Launch Capability contract modification that covers Atlas 5 and Delta 4 launch services during fiscal year 2016, the Defense Department announced Sept. 29. EELV Launch Capability contracts, awarded annually, cover services not necessarily associated with a given launch, making it difficult to put an exact price point on individual ULA missions.
    But the limitation on access to the Russian-built RD-180, the main engine on the Atlas 5, represents a potentially bigger problem for Denver-based ULA, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture that since its 2006 creation has effectively had the government launch services market all to itself. Now facing a competitive challenge from upstart SpaceX of Hawthorne, California, ULA is planning to introduce a new launcher dubbed Vulcan around 2020 but needs to continue launching its workhorse Atlas 5 in the meantime to stay in the game.
    Congress banned future use of Russian engines for U.S. national security launches in the NDAA for Fiscal Year 2015 in response to Russia's 2014 incursion into neighboring Ukraine. The ban exempted five RD-180s that were already on order at the time of the law's enactment, according to the Air Force and ULA, who have pushed Congress for access to more engines.
    The House Armed Services Committee's version of the 2016 NDAA would have granted access to an additional nine engines, making a total of 14 available for future Air Force competitions. But the Senate committee's version, reflecting the wishes of its chairman, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a frequent ULA critic, exempted just four more engines, for a total of nine. The Senate position prevailed in the compromise bill hashed out by House and Senate conferees.
    ULA has said it is retiring all but the heavy-lift version of its Delta 4 rocket in the next couple of years because it is too expensive to be competitive. There is no heavy-lift version of the Atlas 5, but that rocket is far less expensive and thus is used far more frequently — including exclusively by NASA, whose launches are not subject to the RD-180 ban.
    ULA ultimately plans to replace the Atlas 5 with the Vulcan, whose first stage would be powered by the BE-4 engine being developed by Kent, Washington-based Blue Origin, but envisions at least a couple of years of overlapping operations between the two vehicles. The Air Force has said ULA needs access to at least 18 more RD-180 engines — including the five already exempted — to remain competitive with SpaceX's aggressively priced Falcon 9 rocket in the national security market over the next several years.
    In a statement provided to SpaceNews by ULA spokeswoman Jessica Rye, the company said, "Congress' actions in the NDAA are a beginning to providing a transition from the Atlas V to a future all-American rocket and engine. While the RD-180 engines authorized by Congress are a start, the number authorized will unfortunately not be enough to keep Atlas flying to support national security needs until Vulcan is developed, tested and certified."
    ULA said it will continue to work with Congress to secure enough RD-180s to ensure competition in the military launch market.
    Report language accompanying the Senate version of the bill has suggested that Atlas 5's intended for NASA could be repurposed for military use should that become absolutely necessary.
    The conference bill contains another measure that could spell trouble for ULA's current plans: a directive that funding provided by Congress to develop an American alternative to the RD-180 be used for that purpose only. That presumably means the money — Congress appropriated $225 million in 2015 — cannot be used for Vulcan development.
    In selecting the BE-4 as its next main engine, ULA effectively spurned U.S. propulsion provider Aerojet Rocketdyne, which is developing an engine dubbed AR1 that it says can be retrofitted with the Atlas 5 relatively easily but would need substantial government funding to complete. ULA is providing some support for AR1 development as a backup option in case Blue Origin falters on the BE-4.
    But in choosing the BE-4, which cannot work with the Atlas 5, ULA committed itself to developing a new rocket, which is likely to cost $2 billion or more between the vehicle and the new engine.
    ULA has said it would rely on its corporate parents to pay Vulcan's development costs outside of the BE-4, which Blue Origin is funding internally. To date, Boeing and Lockheed Martin, which have booked substantial profit on ULA revenue, have been providing funds for Vulcan work on a quarterly basis.
    Craig Cooning, president of Boeing Network and Space Systems of El Segundo, California, and chairman of ULA's board, said recently that Vulcan should be a government-funded development effort. He also said ULA must have continued access to the RD-180 to stay in business until Vulcan is ready to take over.
    Spokespersons for Boeing were not immediately available for comment.
    - и ещё неоднократно, выйдет зайчик ( РД-180) погулять  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 01.10.2015 05:14:05
    ULA accounted for 29 percent of Lockheed Martin Space Systems' operating profit in 2013, contributing $300 million in cash, - See more at: http://spacenews.com/39543military-space-quarterly-ula-keeps-lockheed-space-profit-up-as-revenue/#sthash.nSTD3jxF.dpuf

    сколько же они гребут с одного пуска?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 01.10.2015 09:40:19
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    сколько же они гребут с одного пуска?
    Интересно. В 2013 было 11 пусков - 8 Атласов и 3 Дельты.

    300 / 11 = 27 млн. И еще столько же Боингу. Непогано...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 01.10.2015 06:59:21
    возможно, что атлас и дельта не так уж и дороги, просто выход их на коммерческий рынок заставит военных срезать им платежи. А 10 сверхприбыльных пусков для них лучше, чем 15-20 малоприбыльных
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: che wi от 07.10.2015 12:39:19
    Achieving 100 Launches
    http://youtu.be/lx6vceNOV9c

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx6vceNOV9c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lx6vceNOV9c)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 08:56:51
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    But in choosing the BE-4, which cannot work with the Atlas 5, ULA committed itself to developing a new rocket, which is likely to cost $2 billion or more between the vehicle and the new engine.
    Макнамары на них нету... Интересно это Маск всех нормальных инженеров к себе сманил или просто менеджмент надеется решить проблему политическими средствами, а Вулкан - чистое ИБД?
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    - и ещё неоднократно, выйдет зайчик ( РД-180) погулять
    Ну будет чем Юлафилов троллить :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 07.10.2015 10:40:49
    А что удивительного в разработке новой ракеты среднего класса за 2 млрд?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 10:15:09
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А что удивительного в разработке новой ракеты среднего класса за 2 млрд?
    То что Маску хватило то ли 400 то ли 500 миллионов и 2х лет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 07.10.2015 11:28:19
    двух? от какой до какой даты отчет?
    да 400 млн у него был фалкон 9.0, но он как бы по возможностям нифига не вулкан
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 10:35:06
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    двух? от какой до какой даты отчет?
    От перечисления денег в 2008.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    да 400 млн у него был фалкон 9.0, но он как бы по возможностям нифига не вулкан
    Возможностей у него бесконечно больше чем у цельно-бумажного Вулкана к которому даже двигателя до сих пор нет и не известно какой он будет. А апгрейд до 1.1, 1.2 и Хэви был сделан вообще на прибыль с запусков Дракона за $ 133 миллиона и Фалькона 1.1 за 60.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 07.10.2015 11:35:55
    так на вулкан еще и не тратили ничего
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 10:41:12
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    так на вулкан еще и не тратили ничего
    Только вот СпейсИкс в 2008 был на грани банкротства у Юлы чистая прибыль 600 миллионов в год.

    И какая религия запрещает Юле сделать спасаемую капсулу для двигателя не в 2024 а вот прямо сейчас и пользоваться РД-180, RS-68 или даже RS-25 пока Кхтулху не фхтагн?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 07.10.2015 15:47:20
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    И какая религия запрещает Юле сделать спасаемую капсулу для двигателя не в 2024 а вот прямо сейчас и пользоваться РД-180, RS-68 или даже RS-25 пока Кхтулху не фхтагн?
    Да это как раз понятно - "чтоб два раза не вставать"... ЮЛА цена на их пуски не колышет, так зачем спешить-то?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 10:57:38
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Да это как раз понятно - "чтоб два раза не вставать"... ЮЛА цена на их пуски не колышет, так зачем спешить-то?
    Без РД-180 и с перспективой скорой сертификации Фалькона-9 для ВВС они оказались в прошлом году, когда у Маска было ровно 0 взорвавшихся Фальконов-9 и это при 60 миллионах за запуск. Действия Юлы: объявить двухлетний конкурс на двигатель между Рокитдайном и БлюО, объявить конкурс на название РН, летные испытания не ранее 2019. Если бы не авария (о которой Юла вроде как не знала), в этом году уже должны были взлететь Фалькон-Хэви и сесть Фалькон-9Р. После чего Юле осталась бы ниша запасной ракеты на случай аварии Фалькона с соответствующим падением доходов.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 07.10.2015 11:59:56
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    так на вулкан еще и не тратили ничего
    Только вот СпейсИкс в 2008 был на грани банкротства у Юлы чистая прибыль 600 миллионов в год.

    И какая религия запрещает Юле сделать спасаемую капсулу для двигателя не в 2024 а вот прямо сейчас и пользоваться РД-180, RS-68 или даже RS-25 пока Кхтулху не фхтагн?
    вопрос был ровно один - вас удивило, что цена разработки вулкана - 2млрд долларов. С учетом того, что в разы  более слабый фалкон у экономных пацанов вышел в 400 млн, а дальше мы не знаем сколько Маск потратил на 1.1, который тоже сильно слабее вулкана. При этом на вулкане надо отработать новый тип топлива, который еще всерьез нигде не применяли
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 11:12:26
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    С учетом того, что в разыболее слабый фалкон у экономных пацанов вышел в 400 млн
    По НОО вполне аналог 401. С Центавром и бустерами будет аналог Дельт и Атласов.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а дальше мы не знаем сколько Маск потратил на 1.1
    Мы знаем сколько и по какой цене он запустил 1.0. Чистой прибыли там хорошо если 100 миллионов было.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Который тоже сильно слабее вулкана
    Зашел на сайт Юлы. Ни чего конкретного о ПН Вулкана не увидел.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    При этом на вулкане надо отработать новый тип топлива, который еще всерьез нигде не применяли
    А их ни кто не заставлял выбирать именно метан+кислород при освоенном водороде.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 07.10.2015 15:15:10
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    А их ни кто не заставлял выбирать именно метан+кислород при освоенном водороде.
    Жизнь заставила :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 11:19:06
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Жизнь заставила
    Прямо как Хрюничева заставила РД-180 распилить а потом форсировать...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 07.10.2015 16:59:13
    ЦитироватьKap пишет: Макнамары на них нету... Интересно это Маск всех нормальных инженеров к себе сманил или просто менеджмент надеется решить проблему политическими средствами, а Вулкан - чистое ИБД?

    Нету Макнамары.

    Точно не Маск сманил. Собственно, он и сманил-то трех-четырех, все известны. У него сманивают.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 07.10.2015 16:07:49
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    При этом на вулкане надо отработать новый тип топлива, который еще всерьез нигде не применяли
    А их ни кто не заставлял выбирать именно метан+кислород при освоенном водороде.
    Метан выглядит дешевле освоенного водорода.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 07.10.2015 17:21:01
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    двух? от какой до какой даты отчет?
    да 400 млн у него был фалкон 9.0, но он как бы по возможностям нифига не вулкан
    На Falcon 1 с нуля и пустого поля (был готовый стенд) до завода и серии потребовалось, со всеми дорогостоящими неудачами, -- менее $100 млн. собранных средств, из них около 30 -- Маска. Туда входили два места пуска и разработка трех ЖРД: Draco, Kestrel, Merlin 1C.

    Откуда $400 млн., любопытно?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 07.10.2015 17:24:17
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет: вопрос был ровно один - вас удивило, что цена разработки вулкана - 2млрд долларов. С учетом того, что в разы более слабый фалкон у экономных пацанов вышел в 400 млн, а дальше мы не знаем сколько Маск потратил на 1.1, который тоже сильно слабее вулкана. При этом на вулкане надо отработать новый тип топлива, который еще всерьез нигде не применяли
    "Мы не знаем" и о 400 млн. долларов. Маск сделал 1.1 на часть прибыли. Небольшую. И в итоге есть носитель, который дешевле, чем ULA только обещает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 07.10.2015 13:07:58
    Я о Фальконе 9 писал про 400. Пруф в стартовом посте темы 'что стоит за энтузиазмом..." ну и за все 12 пусков вместе с разработкой уплочено 1600 лиминов.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 07.10.2015 20:49:50
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Я о Фальконе 9 писал про 400. Пруф в стартовом посте темы 'что стоит за энтузиазмом..." ну и за все 12 пусков вместе с разработкой уплочено 1600 лиминов.
    "Никому верить нельзя" (Броневой).

    ЦитироватьSpaceX has publicly indicated that the development cost for Falcon 9 launch vehicle was approximately $300 million. Additionally, approximately $90 million was spent developing the Falcon 1 launch vehicle which did contribute to some extent to the Falcon 9, for a total of $390 million. NASA has verified these costs.

    Только мне.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 07.10.2015 17:25:53
    имеем итерационный подход у Маска, 90 млн на Фалкон-1, еще 300 на фалкон-9, не ясное число денег на 9.1. Округлим сумму до 500 млн.

    У вулкана тоже могут быт итерации, пока вторую ступень не сделают, могут использовать центавр. Не ясно - 2 миллиарда, это с отработкой водородной ступени или нет.  При этом фалкон 9 по выводу на ГПО/ГСО слабее вулкана, и не ясно сколько денег Маску надо будет еще потратить, чтобы догнать. По итогу получим разницу в 2-3 раза, такую же, как и на пуски. А европейцы за Ариан-6 запросили 2.3 лярда евро, а в нем новизны меньше, чем в вулкане
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 08.10.2015 00:59:47
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Метан выглядит дешевле освоенного водорода.
    А если ВВП решит сам запретить продажу РД-180? Новая ракета нужна была "еще вчера".
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    SpaceX has publicly indicated that the development cost for Falcon 9 launch vehicle was approximately $300 million. Additionally, approximately $90 million was spent developing the Falcon 1 launch vehicle which did contribute to some extent to the Falcon 9, for a total of $390 million. NASA has verified these costs.
    О чем спор-то? Два миллиарда ни как не получаются.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    имеем итерационный подход у Маска, 90 млн на Фалкон-1, еще 300 на фалкон-9, не ясное число денег на 9.1. Округлим сумму до 500 млн.
    Я конечно не люблю Юлу, но сравнивать ее со СпейсИкс времен разработки Фалькона-1 уже слишком.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    У вулкана тоже могут быт итерации, пока вторую ступень не сделают, могут использовать центавр.
    Итерации были бы сделай Юла спасаемый хвост для Дельты-4 (на основе которой вроде как делают Вулкан) или Атласа-5, а затем меняла двигатели и топливо как ей захочется.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Не ясно - 2 миллиарда, это с отработкой водородной ступени или нет.
    Она стоит дороже отработки целого Фалькона-9?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    При этом фалкон 9 по выводу на ГПО/ГСО слабее вулкана
    Вот только Юла ПН своего чуда стыдливо умалчивает.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    и не ясно сколько денег Маску надо будет еще потратить, чтобы догнать
    Юлизм головного мозга. Фалькон-Хэви вытаскивает на ГПО до 21 тонны, и практически готов - даже контракты есть. Догоняйте.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А европейцы за Ариан-6 запросили 2.3 лярда евро
    А еще они принять ислам готовятся. Конкурировать за американский рынок Юле все равно со СпейсИкс, а не Арианспейс.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а в нем новизны меньше, чем в вулкане
    В Вулкане меньше чем в Фалькон-9Р, который уже летные испытания проходит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 05:12:28
    отработка водородной второй ступени занятие дорогое. вполне может сравниться с керосиновой первой. Отработка нового типа топлива, которое раньше на первой ступени не применялось - занятие более дорогое чем приделываение рулей и управляемая посадка.

    "Вот только Юла ПН своего чуда стыдливо умалчивает." - пока действительно рано ее сообщать, ракета только начала проектироваться.

    Про спасание дешевого двигателя дельты - это убивают всю идею дельты и я даже не понимаю, как это комментировать.

    Фалкон-9 на ГПО многие нагрузки вывести не мог, сколько потрачено на 9.1 мы не знаем, но он тоже по возможностям до атласов не дотягивает, сколько на 9.2 мы не знаем.

    Про Хэви - цену для нее указали странную - http://www.spacex.com/about/capabilities
    для смешной нагрузки. И картинка намекает, что такая цена только с отработкой посадки, которая еще не отработана.

    Два миллиарда никак не получится, но по итогу получается в 3 раза дороже, что и соответствует соотношению цен пусков ULA и спейсов. 

    Про принятие ислама это не ко мне, но ариан  вроде как лидер коммерческих пусков и его апгрейд стоит дороже разработки полностью нового носителя, который для рынка не предназначен. Не видите ли тут странность?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 05:18:18
    ну и относительно скрывания данных по вулкану - Бруно скрывает:
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158207.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 08.10.2015 05:23:50
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    отработка водородной второй ступени занятие дорогое. вполне может сравниться с керосиновой первой.
    И по-этому именно ей следует заниматься когда есть угроза потери бизнеса?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Отработка нового типа топлива, которое раньше на первой ступени не применялось - занятие более дорогое чем приделываение рулей и управляемая посадка.
    Охренительно богатый БлюО уже сам сделал метановый аналог Мерлина - ВЕ-3. Делать BE-4 будет он, а не Юла. А рули и управляемая посадка - полезнее.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    "Вот только Юла ПН своего чуда стыдливо умалчивает." - пока действительно рано ее сообщать, ракета только начала проектироваться.
    А Маск не знал и ПН Фальконов 9 и Хэви как минимум с 2008 вывешивал.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Про спасание дешевого двигателя дельты - это убивают всю идею дельты и я даже не понимаю, как это комментировать.
    Дешевого относительно SSME что-ли? Дельта от чего-то стоит заметно дороже Атласа той же ПН.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    сколько потрачено на 9.1 мы не знаем
    Явно не миллиард.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    но он тоже по возможностям до атласов не дотягивает
    Во-первых надо еще посмотреть как много нагрузок возилось тяжелыми Атласами одним куском, во-вторых, Фалькон-Хэви везет больше всех Атласов и Дельт.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Про Хэви - цену для нее указали странную - http://www.spacex.com/about/capabilities
    для смешной нагрузки. И картинка намекает, что такая цена только с отработкой посадки, которая еще не отработана.
    "Картинка намекает" - это сильный аргумент да. Понятным английским языком написано ведь про cross-feed (http://www.spacex.com/falcon-heavy). Фалькон-9, там, кстати, нарисован с ногами и мухобойками, а цена и ПН указана для одноразового.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    но арианвроде как лидер коммерческих пусков
    За прошлый год у Ариан-5 было 4 коммерческих пуска. У Фалькона-9 аналогично.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    и его апгрейд стоит дороже разработки полностью нового носителя, который для рынка не предназначе
    Про апгрейд вы из названия решили? Ну и не "стоит", а Арианспейс столько распилить захотело.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ну и относительно скрывания данных по вулкану - Бруно скрывает:
    А тут (http://www.ulalaunch.com/Products_Vulcan.aspx) молчит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 08.10.2015 10:31:18
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ну и относительно скрывания данных по вулкану - Бруно скрывает:
    Всего на три тысячи фунтов больше чем у Фалкон-Хэви? Сиречь на менее чем на полторы тонны? И стоило щеки надувать...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 08.10.2015 05:48:08
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Бруно скрывает:
    Кстати, из картинки видно что самый массовый из Атласов 5 - 401 Фалькон-9 вер 1.1 делает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 07:21:50
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Бруно скрывает:
    Кстати, из картинки видно что самый массовый из Атласов 5 - 401 Фалькон-9 вер 1.1 делает.
    этот факт замечен давно
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 07:24:49
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ну и относительно скрывания данных по вулкану - Бруно скрывает:
    Всего на три тысячи фунтов больше чем у Фалкон-Хэви? Сиречь на менее чем на полторы тонны? И стоило щеки надувать...
    т.е. если разработка первой в мире метановой ракеты среднего класса/тяжелого завершится успешно, то это не будет успехом, которым можно гордиться?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 07:38:41
    Кар, бегаем по кругу, смысла нет. ULA просит в 3 раза больше Маска и меньше Ариана (за большую работу). 
    что тут удивительного?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 08.10.2015 11:43:28
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    т.е. если разработка первой в мире метановой ракеты среднего класса/тяжелого завершится успешно, то это не будет успехом, которым можно гордиться?
    Как технологическое достижение - будет. Таким же, как Дельта-4, первая чисто водородная ракета. А если еще и двигатели спасать научатся - вообще замечательно. Но вот будет ли это коммерчески выгодно, или убыточно - большой вопрос... А ракеты ведь строят все же не для демонстрации технологических достижений...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 08.10.2015 11:20:12
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Охренительно богатый БлюО уже сам сделал метановый аналог Мерлина - ВЕ-3.
    C каких пор BE-3 стал метановым? :o
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 08.10.2015 11:27:59
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    А Маск не знал и ПН Фальконов 9 и Хэви как минимум с 2008 вывешивал.
    То что он вывешивал было откровенным враньём. Особенно ПН F9 v1.0.
    К заявленным 16т на LEO он только на v1.2 подобрался.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 08.10.2015 12:41:31
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    К заявленным 16т на LEO он только на v1.2 подобрался
    Так он ЕМНИП и не заявлял 16т на НОО для Ф 1.0 Десять заявлял, помнится. В реале было около восьми наверное...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 08.10.2015 11:53:53
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    За прошлый год у Ариан-5 было 4 коммерческих пуска.
    Пять.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет: У Фалькона-9 аналогично.
    Четыре.
    При этом Ариан вывела 10 спутников на ГПО, а Фалькон только три массой от трёх до 4,5 т.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 08.10.2015 14:03:09
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    имеем итерационный подход у Маска, 90 млн на Фалкон-1, еще 300 на фалкон-9, не ясное число денег на 9.1. Округлим сумму до 500 млн.

    У вулкана тоже могут быт итерации, пока вторую ступень не сделают, могут использовать центавр. Не ясно - 2 миллиарда, это с отработкой водородной ступени или нет. При этом фалкон 9 по выводу на ГПО/ГСО слабее вулкана, и не ясно сколько денег Маску надо будет еще потратить, чтобы догнать. По итогу получим разницу в 2-3 раза, такую же, как и на пуски. А европейцы за Ариан-6 запросили 2.3 лярда евро, а в нем новизны меньше, чем в вулкане

    Ну да, примерно так и будут считать: там добавить щедро четверть, здесь поставить обещание против события. А после читать разы. Вы среди передовых.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 08.10.2015 14:07:30
    ЦитироватьKap пишет: 
    Охренительно богатый БлюО уже сам сделал метановый аналог Мерлина - ВЕ-3. Делать BE-4 будет он, а не Юла. А рули и управляемая посадка - полезнее.

    BE-3 водородный. Что, строго говоря, дороже в разработке. И этот BE-3 взамен RL-10 прочат. А RL-10 все хотят повторить в Энергомаше. За миллиарды, конечно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 08.10.2015 10:58:06
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    А ракеты ведь строят все же не для демонстрации технологических достижений...
    И для этого тоже.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 08.10.2015 14:11:30
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    И этот BE-3 взамен RL-10 прочат. А RL-10 все хотят повторить в Энергомаше. За миллиарды, конечно.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/124015.jpg)

    А РД-0146 на шо?!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 08.10.2015 16:30:53
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    И для этого тоже.
    Всё же это не должно быть основной целью...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 08.10.2015 11:41:23
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    этот факт замечен давно
    Т.е. с сертификацией СпейсИкс Юла теряет примерно половину запусков, после Фалькона-Хэви - все кроме директа на ГПО т.е. практически все. Про аварию 28.06.15 Юла в сентябре 14го знать вроде не могло.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    т.е. если разработка первой в мире метановой ракеты среднего класса/тяжелого завершится успешно, то это не будет успехом, которым можно гордиться?
    Не будет. Метановая одноразовая ракета - это еще одна одноразовая ракета. Ни по ПН, ни по стоимости она не лучше аналогов "классической" (с разными двигателями на разных ступенях) схемы.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Кар, бегаем по кругу, смысла нет. ULA просит в 3 раза больше Маска и меньше Ариана (за большую работу).
    что тут удивительного?
    То что Юла или не может быстрее (фиг с ним с дешевле - ради 600 миллионов годовой прибыли можно и поднапрячся) принципиально, или знала еще в 2014 что у Маска случится авария, а Путин не запретит поставки РД-180 со своей стороны.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    C каких пор BE-3 стал метановым?
    Честно не доглядел :( Искренне считал что они уже работали с метаном.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    То что он вывешивал было откровенным враньём. Особенно ПН F9 v1.0.
    К заявленным 16т на LEO он только на v1.2 подобрался.
    Веб-архив (http://web.archive.org/web/20081218012621/http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php) говорит, что заявлял 12,5 тонн. И он уже пророк чтобы врать о еще не сделанной ракете?
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Пять.
    Обсчитался.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Четыре.
    При этом Ариан вывела 10 спутников на ГПО, а Фалькон только три массой от трёх до 4,5 т.
    ОК. В 2013 протоном запущено 7 иностранных спутников, Арианом - 4 или 5 если считать французский Еутелсат за коммерческий.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 08.10.2015 20:46:30
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет: А РД-0146 на шо?!
    РД-0146 и есть давняя и явно дорогая попытка повторить RL-10 вместе с PW. BE-3 уже летал и разрабатывался вовсе не десятилетия, как РД.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 08.10.2015 20:48:46
    ЦитироватьKap пишет: Честно не доглядел  :(  Искренне считал что они уже работали с метаном.
    А они и работали. Макеты метанового BE-4 недавно сотое огневое испытание отметили.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 17:18:10
    Grus у вас есть данные, чтобы оценить стоимость разработки Falcon 9.1 FT с нуля так, чтоб без лаптя?
    А с лаптем получается примерно тоже соотношение, что и со стоимостью полетов.

    "Т.е. с сертификацией СпейсИкс Юла теряет примерно половину запусков, после Фалькона-Хэви - все кроме директа на ГПО т.е. практически все. " - вот уж прямо все? Да и пока особо не потеряли. Еще они могли не верить в заявленную цену Хэви, да и сама ракета некоторый оверпауэр для типовых нагрузок.


    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 08.10.2015 17:19:56
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    И для этого тоже.
    Всё же это не должно быть основной целью...
    Ну не хотят старые фирмы работат на рынке, что тут поделаешь. Но с другой стороны Маску же лучше, если Вулкан все же сделают, но слишком дорогим и ULA пойдет помиру - Маск сманит разработчиков к себе.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 08.10.2015 16:38:36
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    "Т.е. с сертификацией СпейсИкс Юла теряет примерно половину запусков, после Фалькона-Хэви - все кроме директа на ГПО т.е. практически все. " - вот уж прямо все? Да и пока особо не потеряли. Еще они могли не верить в заявленную цену Хэви, да и сама ракета некоторый оверпауэр для типовых нагрузок.
    Вряд ли военные так просто откажутся от дублирования даже ради снижения стоимости, да и кто знает, какие цены выставит Маск, если станет монополистом.

    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    А что тут особенного, его же не ставят просто вместо RL-10 на уже существующие ступени.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 08.10.2015 16:40:27
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Всё же это не должно быть основной целью...
    Да в общем-то ничего не мешает Вулкану быть рабочей лошадью.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 08.10.2015 22:58:41
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    Да??? А что есть данные по ТХ ВЕ-3? 8-.
    Сочиняем? )))
    А вдруг там случилось "чудА"?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 09.10.2015 00:42:10
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Grus у вас есть данные, чтобы оценить стоимость разработки Falcon 9.1 FT с нуля так, чтоб без лаптя?
    А с лаптем получается примерно тоже соотношение, что и со стоимостью полетов.

    А нет, так вы лаптем? Цель в чем? И стоимости полетов вы не знаете, известна цена -- ага. В цену входит много разных НИОКР.

    Цитировать"Т.е. с сертификацией СпейсИкс Юла теряет примерно половину запусков, после Фалькона-Хэви - все кроме директа на ГПО т.е. практически все. " - вот уж прямо все? Да и пока особо не потеряли. Еще они могли не верить в заявленную цену Хэви, да и сама ракета некоторый оверпауэр для типовых нагрузок.

    Исходя из отсутствия многомиллиардных расходов явно строится тактика, которая зависит от текущей прибыли и издержек, успехов и затяжек. Heavy, скажем, до сертификата ВВС и не нужна, не приоритет.

    С другой стороны, очередь разработки Dragon V2 поменялась, стала первой. Как и подтверждение расчетной надежности.

    С третьей, продолжение стендовой доводки Merlin дарит эволюцию носителя и новые рыночные преимущества. А работы по возвращению затянулись.

    Показательный пример стратегии Маска: Merlin 1 Vac и многократное включение. По его словам такое решение не было главным направлением. Но исследовали и довольно неожиданно получили ценнейшее качество. Чуть не главное отличительное качество носителя.

    ЦитироватьМне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?

    Есть оценка ULA, что экономичность по топливу улучшится. Что показывает итоги экспертизы и задание.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 09.10.2015 00:45:09
    Цитироватьfagot пишет: Да в общем-то ничего не мешает Вулкану быть рабочей лошадью.

    Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 08.10.2015 23:30:55
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А с лаптем получается примерно тоже соотношение, что и со стоимостью полетов.

    Так с какого перепуга американский налогоплательщик должен оплачивать "труд" лентяев из Юлы? Тут Путин в Крыму, а в Макдаках кассиров не хватает. 8)
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    вот уж прямо все?
    Еще раз, телодвижения начались в прошлом году, когда Фалькон-9 был безаварийным. А при появлении вдвое (удорожание после ВВСовской сертификации) более дешевого аналога Конгресс докопается почему возят не на нем а на дорогом - Дельта именно так оказалась вытеснена в тяжелый сегмент ПН Атласом.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Да и пока особо не потеряли.
    А вы сравните даты получения сертификации и аварии.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Еще они могли не верить в заявленную цену Хэви
    Даже если она равна трем Фальконам-9 - это 180 миллионов или чуть дороже Атласа 401 (168 миллионов).
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    да и сама ракета некоторый оверпауэр для типовых нагрузок.
    А для типовых есть Фалькон-9.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Вряд ли военные так просто откажутся от дублирования даже ради снижения стоимости
    Ну будут летать Атласы и Дельты по 2-3 раза в год с негабаритной ПН.
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Heavy, скажем, до сертификата ВВС и не нужна, не приоритет.
    У ней еще можно ПН в многоразовость второй ступени конвертировать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 09.10.2015 05:39:18
    А что плохого в грубом анализе, если итоговый результат дает нужную оценку сверху? Если оценка не получается, включаем тонкий анализ

    "Так с какого перепуга американский налогоплательщик должен оплачивать "труд" лентяев из Юлы?" - только с появлением 9.1 фалкон стал представлять  угрозу ULA (А фалкон 9 они просто не воспринимали как угрозу),  более того он и сейчас не может заменить атлас, возможно что в ULA считали, что пентагон не будет связываться с фалконом, чтобы не увеличивать число поставщиков (заодно могли пугать военных, что если число пусков упадет, то ULA не сможет производить атласы для вывода тяжелых спутников по контрактной цене). Расчет оказался неверным. Военные в США угробили столько почти готовых программ, что забота о расходах НП меня всегда веселила.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 09.10.2015 05:41:32
    ЦитироватьИскандер пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    Да??? А что есть данные по ТХ ВЕ-3? 8-.
    Сочиняем? )))
    А вдруг там случилось "чудА"?
    ну RL-10 с его циклом ведь вообще практически самый эффективный двигатель в мире. а у Be-3 если я правильно понял рассуждения про cut-off эффективность поменяли на простоту
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 09.10.2015 05:42:21
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Цитироватьfagot пишет: Да в общем-то ничего не мешает Вулкану быть рабочей лошадью.

    Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    по некоторым прикидкам юла гребет 60млн баксов прибыли с пуска
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 09.10.2015 05:11:38
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    только с появлением 9.1 фалкон стал представлятьугрозу ULA (А фалкон 9 они просто не воспринимали как угрозу)
    0) Так они и зашевелились только в прошлом году и то как-то странно.
    1) Фалькон-9.0 - это керосиновый двуступ. Что не мешало ему иметь ПН на НОО как у голого Атласа-5, который керосин-водородный двуступ. Да, возят обычно не на НОО, но глядя на сроки разработки 9.0 можно было и сообразить что эти ребята очень скоро поднимут ПН на ГПО так или иначе (боковушки из Фальконов-1, РБ из ПОА Дракона, форсирование двигателей и удлинение первой ступени - собственно и случилось).
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    более того он и сейчас не может заменить атлас
    Голый Атлас может. А если тот же РБ из Дракона сделают - заменит все кроме Хэви.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    возможно что в ULA считали, что пентагон не будет связываться с фалконом, чтобы не увеличивать число поставщиков
    "Новости Космонавтики" летом прошлого года считали что сертификацию Фалькон-9 пройдет "в ближайшем будущем"(с).
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    заодно могли пугать военных, что если число пусков упадет, то ULA не сможет производить атласы для вывода тяжелых спутников по контрактной цене
    Военных-то могли. А Путина с Рогозиным чем пугать если они РД-180 перекроют?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Военные в США угробили столько почти готовых программ
    А именно? На ум приходят Раптор и Арсеналшип - оба из серии "лучше бы не начинали".
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    что забота о расходах НП меня всегда веселила.
    Я не спорю что они в прошлом фигней страдали. Не вижу повода наконец прекратить это делать.

    Хотя надо еще посмотреть сколько распилили на Аресе-1. Возможно на этом фоне Вулкан - ультрабюджетный носитель.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    по некоторым прикидкам юла гребет 60млн баксов прибыли с пуска
    Так это еще не все. На Юле кормится куча фирм-смежников с явно аналогичным подходом к ценообразованию. Например ИНС FTINU Юла покупает как минимум за 1.4 миллионов/штука. Маск берет тактический лазерный гироскоп LN-200 по $ 30 000 за новый.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 09.10.2015 12:59:39
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А что плохого в грубом анализе, если итоговый результат дает нужную оценку сверху? Если оценка не получается, включаем тонкий анализ

    "Так с какого перепуга американский налогоплательщик должен оплачивать "труд" лентяев из Юлы?" - только с появлением 9.1 фалкон стал представлять угрозу ULA (А фалкон 9 они просто не воспринимали как угрозу), более того он и сейчас не может заменить атлас, возможно что в ULA считали, что пентагон не будет связываться с фалконом, чтобы не увеличивать число поставщиков (заодно могли пугать военных, что если число пусков упадет, то ULA не сможет производить атласы для вывода тяжелых спутников по контрактной цене). Расчет оказался неверным. Военные в США угробили столько почти готовых программ, что забота о расходах НП меня всегда веселила.
    Пока помнят о том, что эта грубая оценка сверху. Пока не делят другую грубую оценку, но уже снизу на эту сверху и не делают из того выводы.

    Не воспринимать Falcon как угрозу давно мудрено. Дело не в 9.1, а в Delta-2, на минуточку. Но очевидно же, что тактика спесивого незамечания срабатывет. Короля делает свита. Тут не только пиар Маска, но и потуги Рогозина оказались нужны.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 09.10.2015 10:04:47
    Кар, я не знаю что у вас раптор, в нашей вселенной он прекрасен  :)   А угробленные программы - начиная от ракет ВВ в середине 80, agile. или ПВО ADAS. FCS. NCLOS.

    " Фалькон-9.0 - это керосиновый двуступ. Что не мешало ему иметь ПН на НОО как у голого Атласа-5, который керосин-водородный двуступ. "  У меня две ноги и две руки, что мне мешает жать, как Кокляеву? А РН Союз вообще 3-х ступ, что-то ей мешает иметь ПН, как у Атласа. 

    "Голый Атлас может. " - может. Но весь - нет. А могли бы начаться рассуждения, что да, тут чуть-чуть можно, но всю линейку не заменяет, и давайте не будем плодить поставщиков, чтобы не усложнять логистику.

    "А Путина с Рогозиным чем пугать если они РД-180 перекроют" - в функции ULA эта задача не хводит

    "Пока помнят о том, что эта грубая оценка сверху. Пока не делят другую грубую оценку, но уже снизу на эту сверху и не делают из того выводы. "  Деление оценки сверху на оценку снизу дает оценку сверху отношения двух величин. Так что можно.   Delta II это конечно хорошо, но там последние 5 лет 1 запуск в год в лучшем случае, явно не на ней у юлы бизнес построен
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 09.10.2015 09:27:27
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Кар, я не знаю что у вас раптор, в нашей вселенной он прекрасен
    В пентагоновских постерах? В реальности его только против грозных ВВС и ПВО ИГИЛ наконец решились выпустить. А обрезание серии на менее 200 машин вполне повод считать проект угробленным ИМХО.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    У меня две ноги и две руки, что мне мешает жать, как Кокляеву?
    Формула Циолковского. Не описывает она ПН штангиста, а вот РН - описывает.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А РН Союз вообще 3-х ступ, что-то ей мешает иметь ПН, как у Атласа.
    Вы на конструкционные числа ступеней и УИ двигателей гляньте.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    "А Путина с Рогозиным чем пугать если они РД-180 перекроют" - в функции ULA эта задача не хводит
    В ее функции входит задача выводить ПН в интересах американского государства. А сейчас выяснилось что она это может делать только пока российское государство РД-180 предоставляет и при этом гребет в 2,5 раз больше исконно-американского СпейсИкс. Говорю же - Макнамары на Юлу нету.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 09.10.2015 10:57:43
    "В реальности его только против грозных ВВС и ПВО ИГИЛ наконец решились выпустить." - а США с кем-то вели войну, где надо было захватить господство в воздухе? Где? 

    "А обрезание серии на менее 200 машин вполне повод считать проект угробленным ИМХО. " - ваше личное мнение. В том, что СССР сдулся раптор не виноват.

    "Формула Циолковского. Не описывает она ПН штангиста" три ракеты Атлас-5 401, Союз-2, Фалкон-9 1.0 имеют близкую стартовую массу. Атлас-5 имеет значительно более эффективные первую ступень и вторую ступень. И достижения Союза в выводе на ГПО не впечатляют, почему должны у Фалкона впечатлять? 

    ULA вполне может выполнить все обязательства на дельтах, но она заинтересована в том, чтобы правительство профинансировало создание нового носителя, правительство пока согласно только финансировать создание нового двигателя. Вокруг этого и будут бодаться.

    Я не фоннат Макнамары, за стрелкову во многом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 09.10.2015 12:04:47
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    Если заказчик согласится, то включат и вернут.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 09.10.2015 12:20:54
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    ОК. В 2013 протоном запущено 7 иностранных спутников, Арианом - 4 или 5 если считать французский Еутелсат за коммерческий.
    Сравнение по одному году не показательно, и коммерческим был не только Евтелсал, но и Инмарсат, поэтому 7:6.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:30:46
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
     А RL-10 все хотят повторить в Энергомаше. За миллиарды, конечно.
    Какого только бреда не приходится читать на нашем форуме.:o
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 09.10.2015 12:32:25
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Еще раз, телодвижения начались в прошлом году, когда Фалькон-9 был безаварийным. А при появлении вдвое (удорожание после ВВСовской сертификации) более дешевого аналога Конгресс докопается почему возят не на нем а на дорогом - Дельта именно так оказалась вытеснена в тяжелый сегмент ПН Атласом.
    Дельта летает хоть и реже Атласа, но не только в Хэви варианте и выводит те же ПН, что и Атлас.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Ну будут летать Атласы и Дельты по 2-3 раза в год с негабаритной ПН.
    Скорее уж Вулкан, и вполне может быть, что не 2-3 раза, а поровну с Фалконом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:34:55
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:36:52
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    И для этого тоже.
    Всё же это не должно быть основной целью...
    Ну не хотят старые фирмы работат на рынке, что тут поделаешь. Но с другой стороны Маску же лучше, если Вулкан все же сделают, но слишком дорогим и ULA пойдет помиру - Маск сманит разработчиков к себе.
    У Безоса? ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 09.10.2015 12:40:32
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Голый Атлас может. А если тот же РБ из Дракона сделают - заменит все кроме Хэви.
    Даже с РБ Атласы начиная с 531-го не заменит.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Военных-то могли. А Путина с Рогозиным чем пугать если они РД-180 перекроют?
    Наверно, RS-68-м.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:40:40
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Цитироватьfagot пишет: Да в общем-то ничего не мешает Вулкану быть рабочей лошадью.
    Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    Каких НИОКР? BE-4 разрабатывает Безос за свой счёт. Баки для Дельты-4 в серийном производстве, ТТУ делает ATK.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 09.10.2015 12:44:39
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    Наверно имелась ввиду высотная модификация ВЕ-3 в плане того, что УИ открытой схемы должен быть меньше замкнутой. Хотя разница максимум в 15-20 с не принципиальна.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:49:33
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Веб-архив (http://web.archive.org/web/20081218012621/http://www.spacex.com/falcon9.php) говорит, что заявлял 12,5 тонн. И он уже пророк чтобы врать о еще не сделанной ракете?
    Заявлялось 16 тонн. Эта цифра весит на сайте NASA с момента появления первой информации о V1.1.
    Я об этом сайте:
    http://elvperf.ksc.nasa.gov/Pages/Default.aspx
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.10.2015 16:52:41
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    Наверно имелась ввиду высотная модификация ВЕ-3 в плане того, что УИ открытой схемы должен быть меньше замкнутой. Хотя разница максимум в 15-20 с не принципиальна.
    Для вакуумных двигателей важна степень геометрического расширения сопла. У 30 тонного BE-3 она конечно меньше чем у RL10 крайних модификаций.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 09.10.2015 16:58:56
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Мне другой момент интересен, никого не смущает меньший УИ у Be-3 по сравнению с RL-10?
    BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    Вакуумная версия точно будет использоваться в собственной ракете BO и возможно в Вулкане.

    Насчет низкого УИ он компенсируется низкой ценой BE-3 и большим РЗТ ACES. RL-10 конечно лучше, но для ACES их нужно 2-4 шт. 

    http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Upper_Stages/ACES-Stage_Concept-AIAASpace_2015.pdf
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 10.10.2015 07:48:37
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а США с кем-то вели войну, где надо было захватить господство в воздухе? Где?
    В Ливии хоть какие-то ВВС и ПВО были, а вот Рапторов там не было.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ваше личное мнение. В том, что СССР сдулся раптор не виноват.
    Раптор делали и определяли потребность сильно больше 200 машин уже после развала СССР. И Это факт, а не ИМХО.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    три ракеты Атлас-5 401, Союз-2, Фалкон-9 1.0 имеют близкую стартовую массу. Атлас-5 имеет значительно более эффективные первую ступень и вторую ступень. И достижения Союза в выводе на ГПО не впечатляют, почему должны у Фалкона впечатлять?
    Потому что Фалькон делался не в 1950х и сразу как РН, а не МБР? У него конструкция легче чем у семерки более чем в два раза, наддув гелием, нет рулевой перекиси. Да и степень расширения на второй ступени по-больше вроде.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ULA вполне может выполнить все обязательства на дельтах
    А у ВВС завалялись лишние миллионы чтобы разницу между Дельтой и Атласом оплачивать?
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Дельта летает хоть и реже Атласа, но не только в Хэви варианте и выводит те же ПН, что и Атлас.
    Голую Дельту свернули, тяжелый Атлас ни разу не летал. Что бы это значило?
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Скорее уж Вулкан
    Пусть построят для начала. Судя по истории с Дримлайнером они и к 2019 не успеют.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Даже с РБ Атласы начиная с 531-го не заменит.
    531, 541 и 551 за всю историю было аж 12 штук. Это конечно повод для оптимизма, да.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Наверно, RS-68-м.
    Не получится - переход на Дельты означает что санкции достигли цели и нанесли ущерб экономике США - Дельта дороже.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 10.10.2015 14:07:54
    "анкции достигли цели и нанесли ущерб экономике США" - помогите, я не могу из под стола вылезти
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 10.10.2015 14:10:02
    "В Ливии хоть какие-то ВВС и ПВО были, а вот Рапторов там не было" - там было ВВС бонбить тапочников. вести воздушный бой оно было не в состоянии, там даже толком F-15C не привлекли, все сделали F-15E.

    "Да и степень расширения на второй ступени по-больше вроде. " - сейчас же вроде на второй ступени двигло замкнутого цикла, с УИ больше мерлиновского.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 10.10.2015 17:17:35
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    нет рулевой перекиси
    Подробнее про рулевую перекись можно?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 10.10.2015 20:28:29
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    "анкции достигли цели и нанесли ущерб экономике США" - помогите, я не могу из под стола вылезти
    Вообще то вместо перехода на дельту тогда будет переход на Фалкон и ущерб для экономики США наоборот будет меньше. Так что поставки рд-180 это и есть санкции! :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 10.10.2015 21:33:17
    А куда мой вопрос про рулевую перекись исчез?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 11.10.2015 05:11:33
    Стерся в процессе рафинирования.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 11.10.2015 08:15:29
    Цитироватьzaitcev пишет:
    и забабахать многоразовую ступень, не хуже "Россиянки" или "Байкала"
    "Не хуже"? Фигня вопрос - нарисуют уж точно не хуже чем хоть "Росиянка" с "Байкалом".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 17:51:30
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет: BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    BE-3 - семейство из приземного и пустотного двигателей. Второй называется BE-3U. И все его параметры довольно точно известны.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 17:54:13
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет: Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    Каких НИОКР? BE-4 разрабатывает Безос за свой счёт. Баки для Дельты-4 в серийном производстве, ТТУ делает ATK.
    Образец дикарского отрицания законов сохранения.

    А Безос, понятно, не включит в цену НИОКР и амортизацию? Баки Delta-4 будут все переделывать, начиная с первой ступени большего диаметра. ATK готовит новые ТТУ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 17:57:19
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет: Вакуумная версия точно будет использоваться в собственной ракете BO и возможно в Вулкане.

    Насчет низкого УИ он компенсируется низкой ценой BE-3 и большим РЗТ ACES. RL-10 конечно лучше, но для ACES их нужно 2-4 шт.

    Не точно, а спустя какое-то время после начала полетов Vulcan со старой второй ступенью или унифицированной ACES. И вообще, могут предпочесть пустотные движки XCOR.

    А удельный импульс BE-3U пока общественности не известен. ULA намекает, что лучший.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 12.10.2015 17:16:14
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет: Кроме дорогостоящих НИОКР. Миллиарды придется возвращать, включая в цену пуска.
    Каких НИОКР? BE-4 разрабатывает Безос за свой счёт. Баки для Дельты-4 в серийном производстве, ТТУ делает ATK.
    Образец дикарского отрицания законов сохранения.

    А Безос, понятно, не включит в цену НИОКР и амортизацию? Баки Delta-4 будут все переделывать, начиная с первой ступени большего диаметра. ATK готовит новые ТТУ.
    Диаметр первой ступени будет больше чем диаметр Дельты-4? Про АТК я сам написал - зачем за дикарями повторяете. И где тут НИОКР? Значение буквы "Н" в этой аббревиатуре сами найдёте?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 12.10.2015 17:18:56
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    BE-3 - семейство из приземного и пустотного двигателей. Второй называется BE-3U. И все его параметры довольно точно известны.
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    А удельный импульс BE-3U пока общественности не известен
    Ой :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 12.10.2015 17:22:46
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет: Вакуумная версия точно будет использоваться в собственной ракете BO и возможно в Вулкане.
    Не точно, а спустя какое-то время после начала полетов Vulcan со старой второй ступенью или унифицированной ACES. И вообще, могут предпочесть пустотные движки XCOR.

    Блю Ориджин в собственной ракете будет использовать двигатели XCOR? :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 18:50:39
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет: Диаметр первой ступени будет больше чем диаметр Дельты-4? Про АТК я сам написал - зачем за дикарями повторяете. И где тут НИОКР? Значение буквы "Н" в этой аббревиатуре сами найдёте?
    Во-первых, метановый Vulcan это не водородная Delta-4. Во-вторых, диаметр, видимо, будет меньше, чем у Delta-4.

    Переход на метан ставит множество научных проблем. Да и новая аэродинамика, которая уже привела к занятным особенностям: головной обтекатель, возможно, закроет вторую ступень вместе с грузом.

    Вы подчитайте. Не только пишите.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 18:53:04
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    BE-3 - семейство из приземного и пустотного двигателей. Второй называется BE-3U. И все его параметры довольно точно известны.
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    А удельный импульс BE-3U пока общественности не известен
    Ой  :)  
    Не известен общественности и неизвстен ULA, раз она его выбрала и уже заявляет об энергетических преимуществах, -- не одно и то же. Слишком сложно, надо медленнее?


    BE-3 уже испытан. Пересчитать на новое сопло давно не "Н" в НИОКР.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Grus от 12.10.2015 18:54:52
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет: Блю Ориджин в собственной ракете будет использовать двигатели XCOR?  :)
    Нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 12.10.2015 18:00:15
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    ULA, раз она его выбрала и уже заявляет об энергетических преимуществах
    Где?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 12.10.2015 16:29:51
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Голую Дельту свернули, тяжелый Атлас ни разу не летал. Что бы это значило?
    Наверное то, что дублеров по-прежнему будет два, а не три.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Не получится - переход на Дельты означает что санкции достигли цели и нанесли ущерб экономике США - Дельта дороже.
    Им независимость доступа важнее "ущерба экономике", который к тому же заключается в увеличении финансирования собственной промышленности и прекращении финансирования чужой.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 13.10.2015 02:48:00
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Им независимость доступа важнее "ущерба экономике", который к тому же заключается в увеличении финансирования собственной промышленности и прекращении финансирования чужой.
    Раз до сих пор не перешли на Дельту - значит не важнее. А увеличение финансирования будет не промышленности, а Боинга и за счет кого-то другого - бюджет не резиновый.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Наверное то, что дублеров по-прежнему будет два, а не три.
    У Дельты-Хэви дублеров нет. Атлас-Хэви им является очень теоретически ибо гарантий что он в первый раз полетит нормально нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2015 06:55:33
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:

    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ну и относительно скрывания данных по вулкану - Бруно скрывает:
    А тут (http://www.ulalaunch.com/Products_Vulcan.aspx) молчит.
    Зато тут говорит:
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154767.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 13.10.2015 03:23:50
    И вы тоже говорите(с)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 13.10.2015 04:59:00
    "Раз до сих пор не перешли на Дельту - значит не важнее." - а у них есть возможность быстро нанять людей и увеличить производство дельт? они этого делать не хотят, потому что надеятся на вулкан, держать три ракеты в производстве им накладно
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2015 08:04:15
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:

    ЦитироватьSalo   пишет: BE-3 атмосферный двигатель в отличии от вакуумного RL10.
    BE-3 - семейство из приземного и пустотного двигателей. Второй называется BE-3U. И все его параметры довольно точно известны.
    Все параметры BE-3U Вам довольно точно известны? Ну так поделитесь с общественностью.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2015 08:12:33
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:

    ЦитироватьSalo пишет: Диаметр первой ступени будет больше чем диаметр Дельты-4? Про АТК я сам написал - зачем за дикарями повторяете. И где тут НИОКР? Значение буквы "Н" в этой аббревиатуре сами найдёте?
    Во-первых, метановый Vulcan это не водородная Delta-4. Во-вторых, диаметр, видимо, будет меньше, чем у Delta-4.
    Диаметр будет как у Дельты 4 и делать будут на том же оборудовании с использованием задела. Бруно это уже озвучивал.
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Переход на метан ставит множество научных проблем.
    Какие из этих проблем на Ваш взгляд являются научными?
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Да и новая аэродинамика, которая уже привела к занятным особенностям: головной обтекатель, возможно, закроет вторую ступень вместе с грузом.
    Эта занятная особенность уже давно реализована в пятисотой серии:
     (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/58164)
    ЦитироватьGrus пишет:
    Вы подчитайте. Не только пишите.
    Судя по вашим постам Вам не мешало бы воспользоваться собственным советом:
    Врачу - излечися сам!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 13.10.2015 04:23:18
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а у них есть возможность быстро нанять людей и увеличить производство дельт?
    Любой каприз за деньги ВВС. Если им так независимый доступ важен.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    они этого делать не хотят, потому что надеятся на вулкан, держать три ракеты в производстве им накладно
    А они не знают и держат: Дельта-2, Дельта-4 и Атлас-5. С заменой Атласа-5 на Вулкан будет опять 3 если Дельту-2 не закроют.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 13.10.2015 09:00:16
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    если Дельту-2 не закроют.
    Дельты-2 осталось три шутки. Причем третья вероятно поедет в музей.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2015 09:07:27
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    А они не знают и держат: Дельта-2...
    Про производство Дельты-2 это знатный перл. Не хуже рулевой перекиси.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 13.10.2015 06:18:31
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а у них есть возможность быстро нанять людей и увеличить производство дельт?
    Любой каприз за деньги ВВС. Если им так независимый доступ важен.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    они этого делать не хотят, потому что надеятся на вулкан, держать три ракеты в производстве им накладно
    А они не знают и держат: Дельта-2, Дельта-4 и Атлас-5. С заменой Атласа-5 на Вулкан будет опять 3 если Дельту-2 не закроют.
    стратеги в ULA думают не так как вы. Они хотят вулканом заменить обе ракеты и не хотят вкладывать свои деньги в дельту, если она уйдет на пенсию скоро. Конгресс выделил бабло на новый двигатель на замену РД-180, они хотят, чтобы он выделил деньги на новую ракету, потому что двигатель без ракеты им не нужен. И намекают, что им нало 2 лярда на новую ракету. Хватит ли у их лоббистов веса, чтобы это продавить  - вопрос, на который мы скоро узнаем ответ. 

    Относительно времени, которое им надо на увеличение числа дельт - была презенташка с описанием будущего (как тогда казалось) семейства дельт, с полным фаршем из вариаций хэви с полным набором ТТУ, зацепленных за все места. И обещанием предоставить пуск через 3 года после заказа
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 13.10.2015 11:34:38
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Раз до сих пор не перешли на Дельту - значит не важнее. А увеличение финансирования будет не промышленности, а Боинга и за счет кого-то другого - бюджет не резиновый.
    До сих пор необходимости в этом не возникло, т.к. поставки РД-180 продолжаются и часть ПН можно перевести на Фалкон. Боинг это тоже американская промышленность, "другим" очевидно был бы Локхид.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    У Дельты-Хэви дублеров нет. Атлас-Хэви им является очень теоретически ибо гарантий что он в первый раз полетит нормально нет.
    Речь шла о дублировании средних версий, Хэви летает слишком редко, чтобы тратиться на ее дублирование, хотя не исключено, что часть ее ПН может вывести и 551-й Атлас, да и Фалкон-Хэви на подходе. А дальше намечается смена пары Атлас/Дельта на пару Вулкан/Фалкон.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 13.10.2015 20:49:26
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:  А дальше намечается смена пары Атлас/Дельта на пару Вулкан/Фалкон.
    Если Маск не будет жадничать то может и завалить ЮЛУ. Вот это будет номер!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2015 21:04:44
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/10/12/atlas-5-for-third-launch-this-month-begins-coming-together/
    Цитировать**UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE**

    VEHICLE.....LAUNCHES
    Atlas 5.......50
    Delta 2.......28
    Delta 4.......23

    CUSTOMER
    Air Force...40
    NASA........25
    NRO.........20
    Commercial..16

    LAUNCH SITE
    Cape Canaveral...71
    Vandenberg AFB...30
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 14.10.2015 01:39:21
    ЦитироватьPentagon Mulls Option for More Sole-source Launch Contracts
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — October 13, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155351.jpg)
    Frank Kendall, undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology and logistics. Credit: DoD, Glenn Fawcett  
     
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Defense Department, which is just now introducing competition into the national security launch market, is simultaneously studying whether to award some contracts on a sole-source basis, presumably to incumbent United Launch Alliance, to ensure that it has at least two rocket families at its disposal for the foreseeable future, a Pentagon spokesman said Oct. 8.
    "If it is deemed necessary in order to maintain two viable sources of launch services, sole source allocation of some launches will be one of the options examined," Navy Lt. Cmdr. Courtney Hillson said in an Oct. 8. statement.
    Retired Gen. Larry Welch, a former Air Force chief of staff, recommended as much earlier this year and Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James did not rule out the sole-sourcing of some launch contracts in an Oct. 8 interview with SpaceNews.
    In the statement, Hillson said Deputy Defense Secretary Bob Work has asked the Pentagon's acquisition czar, Frank Kendall, to "further examine a range of options" to ensure the Defense Department has access to two launch service providers. Results of Kendall's study are expected before the end of the year, the statement said.
    It seems likely that any sole-source contracts would go to ULA, the Air Force's longtime monopoly launch services provider, which is now facing a stiff competitive challenge from SpaceX, whose prices might be difficult to match.
    Congress mandated last year that the Air Force by 2019 end its reliance on the Russian-made RD-180 rocket engine that powers the first stage of ULA's most competitive rocket, the Atlas 5. ULA also operates the Delta 4 rocket that is not affected by the ban, but intends to phase out all but the heaviest version of that vehicle in the coming years due to its high cost.
    The RD-180 ban is structured such that ULA only has a limited number of Atlas 5s available for the competitive phase of the Air Force's Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program, now underway. The exact number is still a matter of debate.
    Denver-based ULA, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, has 29 RD-180 engines on order from its Russian supplier. Fifteen of those engines are for Air Force launches already under contract and are unaffected by the ban.
    Another five have been exempted by the National Defense Authorization act of 2015, the law that imposed the ban in the first place, but ULA says these have been allocated already to nonmilitary customers — an assertion the Air Force has questioned. The Air Force also points out that the compromise version of the NDAA for 2016 would exempt four additional engines, although that bill faces a presidential veto threat over unrelated provisions.
    Regardless, ULA says it needs unrestricted access — the ban only affects national security missions — to at least 14 more RD-180s to stay competitive until its next generation Vulcan rocket begins flying around 2020. Air Force officials have put the number at 18-22.
    The Vulcan's first stage would be powered by the BE-4 engine being developed by Blue Origin of Kent, Washington. Congress also has allocated substantial funding to replace the RD-180 with a U.S.-built alternative, but that program has been slow to get started and ULA in any case says its mind is made up on the BE-4, which Blue Origin is funding on its own.
    Meanwhile, the first Air Force launch competition in a decade formally began Sept. 30  with the release of a request for proposals to launch a GPS 3 navigation satellite in 2018. Bids are due Nov. 16, but ULA says that barring relief from the ban it will not participate, presumably ceding the contract to Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX.
    Emily Shanklin, a SpaceX spokeswoman, declined to comment on the statement.
    The current law allows the Air Force to request a waiver from the ban from the secretary of defense if U.S. national security is at stake and no other affordable launch option is available. However, the GPS 3 mission does not appear to meet the criteria, and in any case the Pentagon does not intend to pursue a waiver at this time, Hillson said.
    While the Defense Department remains "committed to competition as a way to control cost," it is prepared to suspend that philosophy in certain instances rather than see ULA driven from the market.
    "The Department cannot be in the risky position of relying on only one source of space launch for critical national security satellites that must be launched reliably and on schedule," the statement read. "With only one source of launch services a failure could lead to a long gap in access to space."

     - See more at: http://spacenews.com/pentagon-mulls-option-for-more-sole-source-launch-contracts/#sthash.SN3gNjSY.hCaOBo5p.dpuf
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 14.10.2015 02:16:57
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    стратеги в ULA думают не так как вы.
    Где и почем брали миелофон, а то мне очень интересно о чем в Юле думают?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Они хотят вулканом заменить обе ракеты и не хотят вкладывать свои деньги в дельту, если она уйдет на пенсию скоро.
    Заменять обе Юловские ракеты Вулканом == признать СпейсИкс как перевозчика ВВС. Ну и по Вулкану еще конь не валялся, а Путин запретить продажу РД-180 может хоть прямо этим утром.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Конгресс выделил бабло на новый двигатель на замену РД-180, они хотят, чтобы он выделил деньги на новую ракету
    Говорю же - Макнамары на них нету. Уже доказано что новую ракету средне-тяжелого класса можно создать на годовую прибыль Юлы и еще сверху останется. Причем Юле изобретать новую вторую ступень совсем не обязательно, в отличие от Маска.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    потому что двигатель без ракеты им не нужен
    Т.е. Прогресс может поставить в центр Союза НК-33, СпейсИкс может менять Мерлин-1С на 1D и 1D+, а сильномогучая Юла заменить в Атласе РД-180 на американский аналог ну ни как?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    И намекают, что им нало 2 лярда на новую ракету. Хватит ли у их лоббистов веса, чтобы это продавить- вопрос, на который мы скоро узнаем ответ.
    Если не хватит - Юле останется только пускать Дельты для тяжелых грузов и как дублера Фалькона. Хотя могли бы уже сделать, например, спасалку для РД-180.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Относительно времени, которое им надо на увеличение числа дельт - была презенташка с описанием будущего (как тогда казалось) семейства дельт, с полным фаршем из вариаций хэви с полным набором ТТУ, зацепленных за все места. И обещанием предоставить пуск через 3 года после заказа
    Т.е. Юла поставила все американские федеральные программы в зависимость от доброй воли президента РФ и стабильности его положения - в случае оранжевой или еще какой революции производству РД-180 настанет немного кирдык. Почему эти прекрасные люди все еще не дают показания в ФБР?
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    До сих пор необходимости в этом не возникло, т.к. поставки РД-180 продолжаются и часть ПН можно перевести на Фалкон.
    Наличие поставок ни Юла ни ВВС гарантировать теперь не могут. А упование на конкурента как бизнес-стратегия - это что-то новое.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    Боинг это тоже американская промышленность, "другим" очевидно был бы Локхид.
    Или тот же Боинг, но "самолетный" либо "спутниковый" отделы.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    А дальше намечается смена пары Атлас/Дельта на пару Вулкан/Фалкон.
    Только вот ведь засада - Фальконы Юле не принадлежат, а Вулкана у Юлы нет и не понятно когда будет.
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    Если Маск не будет жадничать то может и завалить ЮЛУ.
    Юла сейчас в год запускает как минимум на $ 2 миллиарда стоимости. Подозреваю у генералов и чиновников сидящих на этом потоке есть свои маленькие слабости, так что мафия там должна быть дай бог.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 14.10.2015 05:40:15
    "Заменять обе Юловские ракеты Вулканом == признать СпейсИкс как перевозчика ВВС". 
    смысл фразы мне не ясен. СпейсИкс уже перевозчик ВВС. даже если Юла или Кар этого не признают. 

    "Уже доказано что новую ракету средне-тяжелого класса можно создать на годовую прибыль Юлы и еще сверху останется."
    1) Доказано будет, когда фалкон хэви полетит  
    2) Простую керосинку с открытым циклом - можно. Но у Юлы нет опыта такой разработки, она делает качественно, но задорого.

    "Если не хватит - Юле останется только пускать Дельты для тяжелых грузов и как дублера Фалькона."
    Или делать ракету за свои деньги, что более вероятно

    "Хотя могли бы уже сделать, например, спасалку для РД-180" 
    А вы уверены, что такая ракета сразу же будет сертифицирована военными или наса для пуска? 
    На коммерческом рынке юлы нет, придется пускать за свои деньги в холостую

    "а сильномогучая Юла заменить в Атласе РД-180 на американский аналог ну ни как?"
    Аэроджет ее тролит тем же. Аналога пока еще нет, а когда будет, то окажется что никаких преимуществ
    у атласа с AR-1 у перед атлас-5 нет, а деньги потрачены. К моменту окончания работ атласу будет почти 20 лет, 
    самое время начинать делать новый носитель. Так почему бы не сделать его сразу?

    "Т.е. Юла поставила все американские федеральные программы в зависимость от доброй воли президента РФ "
    она ставит государство в зависимость от себя. вариантов действий у нее полно, можно их комбинировать
    - расширить производство дельт
    - создавать вулкан за свои
    - выбить из конгресса бабки на вулкан
    Работа с Россией всегда влечет за собой плозо предсказуемые риски. Это не новость ни для кого. А то получать двигло за себестоимость все хотят, но к нему и риски прилагаются

    "случае оранжевой или еще какой революции производству РД-180 настанет немного кирдык"
    какой еще революции? вы о чем вообще?

    "так что мафия там должна быть дай бог." 
    это для кого-то новость?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 14.10.2015 08:54:32
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
     Аэроджет ее тролит тем же. Аналога пока еще нет, а когда будет, то окажется что никаких преимуществ
    у атласа с AR-1 у перед атлас-5 нет, а деньги потрачены.  
    Они дотроллились до того, что ULA отказалась не только от AR-1, но и от их SRB.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 14.10.2015 05:11:30
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    смысл фразы мне не ясен. СпейсИкс уже перевозчик ВВС.
    Сейчас у Юлы есть две ракеты для дублирования. Если будет одна - ВВС потребуется другой дублер и отпихивать СпейсИкс уже не получится.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    1) Доказано будет, когда фалкон хэви полетит
    Фалькон-9 уже давно Аналог легких Атласов и Дельт. Которые в основном и летают. А Фалькон-Хэви "сделан" уже давно - осталось только ЛКИ провести. Т.е. степень готовности та же что и у не летавшего Атласа-Хэви.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    2) Простую керосинку с открытым циклом - можно. Но у Юлы нет опыта такой разработки, она делает качественно, но задорого.
    У Юлы вообще нет и не будет разработок и производства двигателя первой ступени - собираются аж Блю Ориджин в аустворс отдать. И можно по-подробней о "некачественности" Мерлина-1?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А вы уверены, что такая ракета сразу же будет сертифицирована военными или наса для пуска?
    У них есть другие варианты? От Маска те военные сами отпихивались до последнего.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    На коммерческом рынке юлы нет,
    Есть, хотя и мало. Через Локхида. А мало потому что дорого.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    К моменту окончания работ атласу будет почти 20 лет, самое время начинать делать новый носитель.
    Семерка и Протон не знают что "самое время" и летают. Ладно бы делали многоразовую или оптимизированную по себестоимости производства и запуска ракету - спасать будут только хвост и то когда-то потом. А история с многоразовыми боковушками говорит нам что "когда-то потом" очень может ни чем и не закончится.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    она ставит государство в зависимость от себя. вариантов действий у нее полно, можно их комбинировать
    - расширить производство дельт
    - создавать вулкан за свои
    - выбить из конгресса бабки на вулкан
    Обязательно создавать именно Вулкан? Фалькон-9 с бустерами и Центавром сверху Маск запатентовал или религия не позволяет?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    - выбить из конгресса бабки на вулкан
    Для этого надо быть монополистом. А этого уже нет.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А то получать двигло за себестоимость все хотят, но к нему и риски прилагаются
    Маск имеет двигло за себестоимость просто производя его у себя и без всяких рисков.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 14.10.2015 09:20:14
    ЦитироватьАлександр Ч. пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
     Аэроджет ее тролит тем же. Аналога пока еще нет, а когда будет, то окажется что никаких преимуществ
    у атласа с AR-1 у перед атлас-5 нет, а деньги потрачены.
    Они дотроллились до того, что ULA отказалась не только от AR-1, но и от их SRB.
    И RL-10 следующий на вылет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 14.10.2015 08:25:59
    Цитироватьотпихивать СпейсИкс уже не получится
    он уже сертифицирован и отпихивать не получается. два носителя не очень помогают
    ЦитироватьУ них есть другие варианты?
    Есть. Не делать промежуточных ракет, не имеющих преимуществ перед существующими, а замахнуться сразу на шекспира.
    ЦитироватьТ.е. степень готовности та же что и у не летавшего Атласа-Хэви.
    т.е. пока не готов

    ЦитироватьУ Юлы вообще нет и не будет разработок и производства двигателя первой ступени - собираются аж Блю Ориджин в аустворс отдать. И можно по-подробней о "некачественности" Мерлина-1?
    Речь не о двигателе, а о ракете в целом. Фалкон-9 хорош, но не такой качественный как Атлас. в июне про это все узнали. Маск ставит на технологичность, ULA на техническое совершенство. 

    ЦитироватьСемерка и Протон не знают что "самое время" и летают.
    это скорее плохо, чем хорошо.


    Цитировать спасать будут только хвост и то когда-то потом
    Маск то же сначала начал пуски, а потом занялся спасанием. Удивительно?

    ЦитироватьОбязательно создавать именно Вулкан? Фалькон-9 с бустерами и Центавром сверху Маск запатентовал или религия не позволяет?
    Стоимость центавра (и прочии традиции старых фирма) может свести преимущества на нет. Ну и сомнительно, что даже если получится, то оно сможет конкурировать с Фалкон 1.3/1.4/1.5 или что там у Маска будет через 5 лет. 


    ЦитироватьМаск имеет двигло за себестоимость просто производя его у себя и без всяких рисков
    Юла не Маск. И быть им категорически не желает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 14.10.2015 08:26:21
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    ЦитироватьАлександр Ч. пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
     Аэроджет ее тролит тем же. Аналога пока еще нет, а когда будет, то окажется что никаких преимуществ
    у атласа с AR-1 у перед атлас-5 нет, а деньги потрачены.
    Они дотроллились до того, что ULA отказалась не только от AR-1, но и от их SRB.
    И RL-10 следующий на вылет.
    я не знаю кто из них более злобный буратино
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 14.10.2015 10:06:40
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    он уже сертифицирован и отпихивать не получается.
    Да, но опупея с Вулканом началась в прошлом году когда еще не был.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Есть. Не делать промежуточных ракет, не имеющих преимуществ перед существующими, а замахнуться сразу на шекспира.
    Таким макаром в случае эмбарго на РД-180 ВВС придется лечь под Маска пока этот Шекспир не залетает.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    т.е. пока не готов
    Т.е. намного готовее Вулкана.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Речь не о двигателе, а о ракете в целом. Фалкон-9 хорош, но не такой качественный как Атлас. в июне про это все узнали.
    Уже не июнь и известно что качество ракеты к той аварии отношения не имело. Атлас-5 с бракованной деталью точно так же навернулся бы.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Маск ставит на технологичность, ULA на техническое совершенство.
    Для одноразовой ракеты технологичность и есть техническое соврешенство.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    это скорее плохо, чем хорошо.
    Чем же? До появления Фалькона-9 обе ракеты были одними из самых дешевых средств выведения (после индусов с китайцами), а Союз еще и безавариен (считая актуальные версии).
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Маск то же сначала начал пуски, а потом занялся спасанием. Удивительно?
    Вообще-то Маск занимался спасением еще с Фалькона-1. Просто первоначальный план с парашютами и водой не оправдался - ступень разрушалась на входе в атмосферу. Вместо усиления ступени или перехода к спасению хвоста решили тормозиться на остатках топлива и садится мягко. Но у схемы Юлы таких проблем нет - мягкую посадку возвращаемой капсулы освоили уже давно.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Юла не Маск. И быть им категорически не желает.
    Но публично делает вид что желает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 15.10.2015 00:21:08
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Уже не июнь и известно что качество ракеты к той аварии отношения не имело. Атлас-5 с бракованной деталью точно так же навернулся бы.
    То есть бракованная деталь не влияет на качество всего изделия? ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 14.10.2015 11:08:04
    ЦитироватьNot пишет:
    То есть бракованная деталь не влияет на качество всего изделия?
    На Атлпасе-5 как-то раз оказался бракованным краник, у Дельты-Хэви - датчик топлива. Плохие, негодные ракеты.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 14.10.2015 12:18:43
    ЦитироватьТаким макаром в случае эмбарго на РД-180 ВВС придется лечь под Маска
     - или допинать ULA на дельту.

    ЦитироватьДа, но опупея с Вулканом началась в прошлом году когда еще не был.
    И что это меняет???

    ЦитироватьТ.е. намного готовее Вулкана.
    Т.е. вулкан начинать не надо?
    ЦитироватьУже не июнь и известно что качество ракеты к той аварии отношения не имело. Атлас-5 с бракованной деталью точно так же навернулся бы.
    Соглашусь с Not

    ЦитироватьЧем же? До появления Фалькона-9 обе ракеты были одними из самых дешевых средств выведения
    У Атласа половина затрат это инфраструктура, а у этих дешевых ракет кто ее оплачивает и сколько получает обслуживающий персонал? Ну и эпопея с их заменой, так что заменять их хотели и давно, просто никак не получалось.

    Про фалкон-1 - в каком пуске отрабатывалась реюзабельность?

    ЦитироватьНо публично делает вид что желает
    не бросается в глаза.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 14.10.2015 11:39:19
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Соглашусь с Not

    Вы писали что Юла не станет разрабатывать Мерлин потому что ей нужно качество.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Т.е. вулкан начинать не надо?
    Смотря для чего. Если чтобы остаться в нише дублера СпейсИкс, без РД-180 и при этом не продлять Дельту - надо. А чтобы обеспечить пусковую независимость США и заодно удержать большую чатсь рынка запусков есть способы проще и дешевле, я их назвал выше.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    У Атласа половина затрат это инфраструктура
    Все-таки чуть меньше:
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158123.jpg)
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а у этих дешевых ракет кто ее оплачивает и сколько получает обслуживающий персонал?
    Союз-на-Куру не сильно дороже обычного. Амортизация разработки пока еще многое компенсирует.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Ну и эпопея с их заменой, так что заменять их хотели и давно, просто никак не получалось.
    Больше всего хотели заменять те, кто делал. А ВКС РФ что-то от Протона отказываться не спешат.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Про фалкон-1 - в каком пуске отрабатывалась реюзабельность?

    Вот:
    ЦитироватьНачальные попытки воплощения идеи в металл оригинальностью не блистали. Уже первое детище SpaceX – лёгкий Falcon-1 – оснащалось «многоразовой» первой ступенью. Считалось, что спасти её после возвращения с границы космоса сможет простой парашют, который обеспечит плавное приводнение. GPS-маячок облегчит работу группы поиска и спасения, которая должна найти плавающий в водах океана ракетный блок, поднять на борт длинного «каноэ», скроенного из нескольких надувных моторных лодок, и отбуксировать в порт. Оттуда ступень доставлялась бы (на грузовике или самолёте) на космодром, проверялась, заправлялась и вновь использовалась в составе ракеты-носителя.
    ...
    Однако реальность оказалась сильнее предположений. Ни в одном из пяти пусков «Фалкона-1» первую ступень не удалось не то что спасти, но и даже обнаружить. Это и понятно: одно дело – приводнение шаттловских бустеров, изготовленных из стали толщиной в сантиметр, и совсем другое – вход в воду хлипкой жидкостной ступени с миллиметровыми стенками из алюминий-литиевого сплава, особенно при сильном волнении. Есть ещё и мнение, что первая ступень, не оснащённая системой стабилизации и хоть какой-то теплозащитой, до воды не долетала, попросту рассыпаясь на фрагменты при возвращении в атмосферу со скоростью порядка 5-7 Махов...
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    не бросается в глаза.
    Ну бустеры на более дешевые таки заменили.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 14.10.2015 12:04:58
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Если не хватит - Юле останется только пускать Дельты для тяжелых грузов и как дублера Фалькона. Хотя могли бы уже сделать, например, спасалку для РД-180.
    РД-180 не многоразовый и не производится в США. Фалькон-Хэви, кстати, и тяжелые грузы осилит.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Т.е. Юла поставила все американские федеральные программы в зависимость от доброй воли президента РФ и стабильности его положения - в случае оранжевой или еще какой революции производству РД-180 настанет немного кирдык. Почему эти прекрасные люди все еще не дают показания в ФБР?
    У них там запас РД-180 как раз года на три. И что значит "все" - Дельта пока никуда не делась.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Наличие поставок ни Юла ни ВВС гарантировать теперь не могут. А упование на конкурента как бизнес-стратегия - это что-то новое.
    На конкурента уповает ВВС, про гарантийный запас сказал выше.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Только вот ведь засада - Фальконы Юле не принадлежат, а Вулкана у Юлы нет и не понятно когда будет.
    Все зависит от заказчика - захочет и сможет он содержать дублера или нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 14.10.2015 17:03:04
    Цитировать А чтобы обеспечить пусковую независимость США 
    это не задача ULA. Американцы очень четко разделяют задачи.
    Цитировать А чтобы обеспечить пусковую независимость США и заодно удержать большую чатсь рынка запусков есть способы проще и дешевле, я их назвал выше
    не озвучили и не назвали. Вы предложили хотелку, на которую точно будут большие затраты - без испытательных пусков сертификации ВВС не будет и дельту с капсулой до нагрузок сразу не допустят. При этом сама дельта уже объявлена тупиковой - вкладывать деньги в тупиковый проект как минимум не логично.

    про исчезнувшие первые ступени - ну первые три раза там совсем все грохнулось, а в испарение ступени не верю, очень часто первые ступени долетают до земли
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Петр Зайцев от 15.10.2015 06:54:08
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    На Атлпасе-5 как-то раз оказался бракованным краник, у Дельты-Хэви - датчик топлива. Плохие, негодные ракеты.
    Всё там нормально с датчиком было, а негодной была схема прокладки трубопровода окислителя. Решение было датчик перенести и ограничить ускорение для уменьшения кавитации.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 15.10.2015 01:15:21
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    РД-180 не многоразовый и не производится в США.
    РД-170 же многоразовый вроде как? В любом случае у США есть многоразовый ССМЕ.
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    У них там запас РД-180 как раз года на три.
    И тут ЦРУ от проверенного источника узнает что в крайней партии часть двигателей очень хитро испорчена - так чтобы входной контроль пройти. Что делать будут?
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    И что значит "все" - Дельта пока никуда не делась.
    Ну 70 %. Кстати, где-то на форуме было мнение что RS-68 уже не производят, а дельты летают на запасах.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    это не задача ULA.
    Сама Юла пишет "ULA brings together two of the launch industry's most experienced and successful teams – Atlas and Delta – to provide reliable, cost-efficient space launch services for the U.S. government." Вроде reliable - это не только техническая надежность.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Вы предложили хотелку
    Бруно сделал то же самое, только запросил еще 2 миллиарда на ее воплощение.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    на которую точно будут большие затраты
    На капсулу для уже летающей ракеты по сравнению с новой ракетой? Не, после Ангары я верю что можно и не так бюджет пилить, но может пора уже работать нормлаьно?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    без испытательных пусков сертификации ВВС не будет и дельту с капсулой до нагрузок сразу не допустят.
    ЕМНИП испытательных запуска требуется два. Даже у Дельты-Хэви это всего 800 миллионов вместе с прибылью.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    При этом сама дельта уже объявлена тупиковой
    Ключевое слово - "объявлена". Но странно, из той тупиковой ракеты как раз хотят Вулкан делать.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    про исчезнувшие первые ступени - ну первые три раза там совсем все грохнулось, а в испарение ступени не верю, очень часто первые ступени долетают до земли
    До земли долетают ступени с конструкционным числом чуть больще 10. У Фалькона-9 оно за 20, у 1 вряд-ли больше. Ну и при посадке на баржу 9Р тратит 1 км/с дельтавы на торможение перед атмосферой из махохизма наверно?
    ЦитироватьПетр Зайцев пишет:
    Всё там нормально с датчиком было, а негодной была схема прокладки трубопровода окислителя. Решение было датчик перенести и ограничить ускорение для уменьшения кавитации.
    Кавитация у ракеты есть всегда, вопрос в ее силе. Ну кодерам было лень даписать пару десятков строк для сверки датчика топлива с таймером и акселерометром. Зато дорогую формальную проверку на правильность их код прошел, да.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 15.10.2015 05:19:56
    Цитироватьстати, где-то на форуме было мнение что RS-68 уже не производят
    да. теперь делают RS-68A

    ЦитироватьВроде reliable - это не только техническая надежность
    где тут фраза про обеспечение американскогому правительству полный независимый гарантированный доступ? думать о гарантированном доступе это задача наса и пентагона, дело юла реализовывать решения.


    ЦитироватьНа капсулу для уже летающей ракеты по сравнению с новой ракетой?
    придется переделывать всю первую ступень. расчеты прочности с нуля


    ЦитироватьЕМНИП испытательных запуска требуется два. Д
    годовой доход псу под хвост. акционеры будут рады

    ЦитироватьКлючевое слово - "объявлена". Но странно, из той тупиковой ракеты как раз хотят Вулкан делать.
    и из дельты и из атласа. это нормально, когда что-то новое делают на основе переделки старого. вот только ежу понятно, что баки дельты и вулкана будут сильно отличаться. 

    Скорость первой ступени в момент отделения у фалкона-1 и 9 одинакова? конструкционное число у них точно разное, в силу размера
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 15.10.2015 07:22:11
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    где тут фраза про обеспечение американскогому правительству полный независимый гарантированный доступ?
    Там есть слово reliable. Современная ситуация когда наличие двигателей у Юлы определяется в Москве это reliable или таки нет?
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    придется переделывать всю первую ступень. расчеты прочности с нуля

    Даже если так, опять не понятно зачем тянуть с капсулой у Вулкана до 24 года.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    годовой доход псу под хвост. акционеры будут рады
    Какие акционеры? А Боинг и Локхид сертификацию Дельты-Хэви переварили.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    и из дельты и из атласа. это нормально, когда что-то новое делают на основе переделки старого. вот только ежу понятно, что баки дельты и вулкана будут сильно отличаться.
    И? Если сделать той же Дельте спасаемый двигательный отсек - менять баки и межбаковый можно будет уже потом. Ибо нагрузки определяются в первую очередь тягой двигателя, которую менять не планируется. Двигатели и топливо можно точно так же заменить если не вылазить тягой за прочность хвоста.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Скорость первой ступени в момент отделения у фалкона-1 и 9 одинакова? конструкционное число у них точно разное, в силу размера
    Так или иначе в двух пусках Ф-1 ступень отделилась нормально, но ее не нашли. Может сгорела в атмосфере, может о воду разбилась - наука пока не в курсе дела. Факт в том что СпейсИкс тормозит ступень перед атмосферой, а Юла собирается выкидывать относительно хлипкие баки.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 15.10.2015 17:27:03
    reliable не относится к ситуации
    ЦитироватьДаже если так, опять не понятно зачем тянуть с капсулой у Вулкана до 24 года
    а если не получится с капсулой, то на какой ракете летать будут? у них итерационная разработка, как ни странно. вообще есть принцип, ему многие следует - в каждом продукте не более одного нового фреймворка ( грамман с F-14 на этом сильно погорел, но все же распространенное правило)
    Цитировать Ибо нагрузки определяются в первую очередь тягой двигателя, которую менять не планируется.

    А прочность корпуса определяется его конструкцией, которую придется переделать полностью. 

    ЦитироватьКакие акционеры? А Боинг и Локхид сертификацию Дельты-Хэви переварили.
    Хэви 11 лет был монопольным тяжелым носителем, сколько они с него денег загребли можно только догадываться. Ради такого можно и заплатить бабло на сертификацию, что тут не понятного???


    Про фалкон-1. Там было столько проблем, что им было не до отработки парашютов. А для фалкона-9 парашюта уже мало
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 16.10.2015 00:57:40
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    а если не получится с капсулой
    Как может "не получится с капсулой" если СА уже давно аж с орбиты спускаются? В том числе и на балутах.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    вообще есть принцип, ему многие следует - в каждом продукте не более одного нового фреймворка ( грамман с F-14 на этом сильно погорел, но все же распространенное правило)
    Правило хорошее. Вот только при создании Шаттла на это правило благополучно забили. А потом забивали во время программ "многоразовый одноступенчатый" (не помню английскую аббревиатуру): венчур стар и дельта клипер. Сейчас они то-же хотят и метан на первой ступени и новую вторую ступень и возвращаемую капсулу. Я только порядок меняю.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Хэви 11 лет был монопольным тяжелым носителем, сколько они с него денег загребли можно только догадываться.
    Чего догадываться? Запусков кроме первого демофлайта было 6, по современным ценам 400 миллионов за запуск Дельты-Хэви за них получено 6х400 000 000=2 400 000 000 дохода. Чистая прибыль много меньше.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Про фалкон-1. Там было столько проблем, что им было не до отработки парашютов.
    Вопросы к Дмитрию Воронцову - одному из авторов той статьи.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А для фалкона-9 парашюта уже мало
    Пустая первая ступень Фалькона-9 даже сейчас весит 22 тонны - это после удлинения с переходом на 1D. Парашюта для нее вполне достаточно, вот только с атмосферой и водой проблемы.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А прочность корпуса определяется его конструкцией, которую придется переделать полностью.
    Нафига? Сейчас они хотят два ВЕ-4 суммарной тягой чуть больше РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 16.10.2015 06:42:00
    Цитироватьет "не получится с капсулой" если СА уже давно аж с орбиты спускаются? В том числе и на балутах.
    Про капсулу - никто ранее по такой схеме ракет не делал.  Проблемы с прочностью могут быть.

    Цитироватьет "не получится с капсулой" если СА уже давно аж с орбиты спускаются? В том числе и на балутах.
    Вы упорно рассматриваете только продольные нагрузки, которые у ракеты в общем-то малы, редко больше 3g, да и то уже с пустыми баками.  

    Вы наверное богатый буратино, а для меня 2.4 лярдка баксов при норме прибыли в 15% это огромные деньги. Для ULA судя по всему тоже. Тем более, что это было решение на 20 лет вперед.


    ЦитироватьСейчас они то-же хотят и метан на первой ступени и новую вторую ступень и возвращаемую капсулу. Я только порядок меняю.
    Вы не порядок, вы суть меняете. Они хотят сделать полностью новую ступень на метане, потом новую вторую ступень. И если получится - сделать возвращаемые двигатели. Вы предлагаете обкатать двигатели на дельте, потом сделать новую первую ступень, потом сильно переделать ее.  То что это нерационально я вам уже писал.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 17.10.2015 01:07:46
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Про капсулу - никто ранее по такой схеме ракет не делал.Проблемы с прочностью могут быть.

    Странно, многоступенчатые (у индусов аж четырехступенчатые) по переходникам не переламываются.

    А отделяемые ДУ стояли на первых Атласах - только парашюты поленились приделать. О Шаттле вообще молчу.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Вы упорно рассматриваете только продольные нагрузки, которые у ракеты в общем-то малы, редко больше 3g, да и то уже с пустыми баками.
    Вообще-то нагрузки они не в g а в Паскалях (инженеры еще любят килограммы силы  на см2) - сила деленная на сечение несущей конструкции. И одинаковые весь полет кроме случаев с применением бустеров. Поперечные нагрузки у ракеты - это либо давление наддува баков либо сгибающие нагрузки при маневрировании. Первые несколько больше тяги деленной на мидель - наддув применяют чтобы баки работали на растяг а не сжатие и весили меньше (точнее еще и для уменьшения кавитации). Вторые много меньше продольных нагрузок силой тяги ибо создаются как правило отклонением вектора той тяги на очень малый угол. Момент от поперечных компонент вектора тяги на переходе "хвост-бак" будет минимально-возможным.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Вы наверное богатый буратино, а для меня 2.4 лярдка баксов при норме прибыли в 15% это огромные деньги. Для ULA судя по всему тоже.
    2.4 миллиарда за 10 лет - это 240 миллионов в год. При норме прибыли 15 % будет аж целых 36 миллионов в год. А всего у Юлы чистой прибыли 600 миллионов в год.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Они хотят сделать полностью новую ступень на метане, потом новую вторую ступень. И если получится - сделать возвращаемые двигатели.
    Картина маслом - мы сделали одноразовую первую ступень и теперь думаем как ей оторвать хвост чтобы он приземлился и был пригоден к установке на новую ракету.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Вы предлагаете обкатать двигатели на дельте, потом сделать новую первую ступень, потом сильно переделать ее.
    Я предлагаю сделать спасаемый хвостовой отсек к которому потом можно будет цеплять любые баки и двигатели не выходящие за прочностные характеристики хвоста.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    То что это нерационально я вам уже писал.
    Не рационально - делать первую в мире метановую РН из любви к искусству и при наличии СпейсИкс в качестве конкурента. Метан может быть оправдан многоразовостью, которая будет когда-то потом. И то СпейсИкс на керосине грозится 40 полетов Мерлина сделать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 17.10.2015 16:10:06
    Про нагрузки - а сила там, которая у вас в числителе, она от перегрузки никак не зависит? Сдается мне, что вы не только сопромат не сдавали, но и механику.

    5-10% рост прибылей это серьезно. 

    Про метан - а почему только многоразовость? У него УИ повыше, давление пониже, двигатель может безопаснее быть. Нет кислого газа.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.10.2015 20:45:28
    И гелий для наддува не нужен.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.10.2015 21:37:53
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А прочность корпуса определяется его конструкцией, которую придется переделать полностью.
    Нафига? Сейчас они хотят два ВЕ-4 суммарной тягой чуть больше РД-180.
    Чуть, это 500тс вместо 400 тс.
    А ещё другие плотность топлива, РЗТ, соотношение компонентов, диаметр от Дельты-4.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 18.10.2015 00:56:59
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    А ещё другие плотность топлива, РЗТ, соотношение компонентов, диаметр от Дельты-4.
    Сказал бы уже коротко - "это другая ракета"...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 18.10.2015 02:43:43
     silentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьПро нагрузки - а сила там, которая у вас в числителе, она от перегрузки никак не зависит? Сдается мне, что вы не только сопромат не сдавали, но и механику.
    Вот именно потому что я сдавал механику, а не ту хрень которую этим словом называют во ВТУЗах, я знаю что это ускорение aka "перегрузка" зависит от силы (а так же массы), а не наоборот как у наших инженеров. Без силы не будет ускорения - первый закон Ньютона, однако. А если система не инерциальная - значит на нее действует сила. В случае ракеты сила тяги двигателя, сила тяжести и аэродинамическое сопротивление. Второе является формой "сил инерции" - курим Эйнштейна - и в системе отсчета ракеты ей можно пренебречь. Третье действует только в самом начале полета и много меньше силы тяги двигателя.

    Стрела разгоняясь в луке с ходом тетивы 0.5 метра до 50 м/с испытывает ускорение 250 g в среднем - сила натяжения уменьшается при ходе тетивы в спущенное положение согласно закону Гука, так что в начале разгона ускорение будет еще больше. А разгоняется она несколькими сотнями ньютонов - больше лучник не выжмет.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    5-10% рост прибылей это серьезно.
    Они скоро как минимум 50 % потеряют и ни чего не сделали чтобы это предотвратить.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    У него УИ повыше
    У плодов глушковских комплексов на Зените, Атласе-5 и Ангаре УИ то-же выше чем у Мерлина с открытым циклом. И что? Ракета с ними одноступенчатой не получается, а задача увеличить мю ПН любой ценой чтобы вывести заданную ПН при имеющейся тяге давно не актуальна.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    давление пониже
    Это вообще не от типа двигателя/топлива зависит, а от выбранного УИ. Причем зависимость УИ от давления как минимум логарифмическая, т.е. при двукратном снижении давления УИ особо не пострадает.
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Нет кислого газа.
    У открытого цикла его то-же нет.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Чуть, это 500тс вместо 400 тс.
    Вместо 420 тс вообще-то. Прибавка 19 % при том что какой-то там Маск поднимал тягу на 80 % в рабочем порядке.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    А ещё другие плотность топлива
    У Фалькона-9.2 выше плотность окислителя, у синтинового Союза была выше плотность топлива.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 18.10.2015 11:08:31
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    У Фалькона-9.2 выше плотность окислителя, у синтинового Союза была выше плотность топлива.
    Здесь разница с керосином будет довольно таки велика...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 18.10.2015 07:36:17
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Здесь разница с керосином будет довольно таки велика...
    Там еще и оптимальное соотношение компонентов должно сильно отличатся: по стехиометрии 4 массовых части кислорода на 1 метановую против примерно 3 к 1 на керосин. Но:
    1) Делаем спасаемый хвост хоть Дельте хоть Атласу. Он воспринимает нагрузки от двигателя и передает их выше через нечто вроде междуступенного переходника.
    2) Над переходником находятся баки и межбаковый, над ними - переходник и вторая ступень. Масса всего этого хозяйства известна - задается тягой РН на старте. Нагрузки на баки и прочее определяется им же. Могут меняться разве что скручивающие моменты при удлинении ступени с переходом на пару с другой плотностью. Ну так задача проектирования баков уже решалась даже под волород-кислород на Дельте-4. Т.е. при смене топлива силовая схема хвоста не меняется - меняется схема баков и межбакового.
    3) Изменение плотности компонентов и их оптимлаьного соотношения означает новые пропорции их забора в двигатель. Т.е. придется менять трубы, ужас-ужас.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: salto от 18.10.2015 19:48:13
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Кавитация у ракеты есть всегда, вопрос в ее силе.
    Очень странная терминология!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 20.10.2015 09:37:03
    Немного циферок про ULA и ее родителей. Наверно все уже виделиэту картинку:
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158123.jpg)
    А вот что было в 1998 году:

    In October 1998 two initial launch services contracts (known as Buy 1) were awarded. Along with the award of two development agreements, the total amount was more than $3 billion.[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_Expendable_Launch_Vehicle#cite_note-AFSPC-9) Boeing was awarded a contract for 19 out of the 28 launches; Lockheed Martin was awarded a contract for the other 9. Boeing received $1.38 billion, and Lockheed Martin received $650 million for the launches.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolved_Expendable_Launch_Vehicle#cite_note-13)

    Итого $ 72 миллиона по курсу 1998 в среднем за ракету. Калькулятор инфляции говорит нам что это чуть более 100 миллионов современных долларов. Но как видно из картинки выше, средняя цена юловской ракеты $ 225 миллионов. При том что заказно почти в 3 раза больше запусков и себестоимость поидее должна быть ниже.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 21.10.2015 10:52:32
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Вместо 420 тс вообще-то. Прибавка 19 % при том что какой-то там Маск поднимал тягу на 80 % в рабочем порядке.
    С каких пор тяга РД-180 стала 420 тс вместо 390 тс?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 21.10.2015 11:07:29
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    У Фалькона-9.2 выше плотность окислителя, у синтинового Союза была выше плотность топлива.
    У F9 v1.2 переохлаждённый кислород с плотностью выше на 10% заливается в те же  баки. В случае с Вулкана плотность жидкого метана в два раза меньше керосина и тут даже Км в 3,5 не спасает: объёмное соотношение кислород/керосин около 2:1, а кислород/метан 1,23:1.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 21.10.2015 07:10:04
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    С каких пор тяга РД-180 стала 420 тс вместо 390 тс?
    Вика пишет 4152 килоньютона. Но даже если по вашему - Маск все равно прибавил тяги больше чем планируют на Вулкане и щеки от этого не надувал.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 21.10.2015 11:17:57
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    С каких пор тяга РД-180 стала 420 тс вместо 390 тс?
    Вика пишет 4152 килоньютона. Но даже если по вашему - Маск все равно прибавил тяги больше чем планируют на Вулкане и щеки от этого не надувал.
    Т.е. Вы сравниваете вакуумную тягу РД-180 с земной BE-4/AR1? Креативненько.

    Так как Маск дует щёки, мало у кого ещё получается. ;)
     Увеличение тяги ведёт к увеличению расхода топлива и РЗТ, а значит и длины бакового отсека. Другая плотность к новому диаметру, а тут ещё и соотношение компонентов другое. Получите новую ракету и распишитесь.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 21.10.2015 07:20:09
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Так как Маск дует щёки, мало у кого ещё получается.
    Действительно - сделать "Зенит" за 2 года и 400 миллионов больше ни кто так и не сподобился.
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Увеличение тяги ведёт к увеличению расхода топлива и РЗТ, а значит и длины бакового отсека. Другая плотность к новому диаметру, а тут ещё и соотношение компонентов другое. Получите новую ракету и распишитесь.
    Маск эту новую ракету собрал на прибыль с 4х запусков 9.1.0, а Юла два миллиарда просит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 21.10.2015 11:21:33
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Вика пишет 4152 килоньютона.
    Это в вакууме, на уровне земли 3828 кН, согласно http://www.lpre.de/energomash/RD-180/index.htm
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 21.10.2015 11:22:32
    ЦитироватьКар пишет:
    Но даже если по вашему - Маск все равно прибавил тяги больше чем планируют на Вулкане и щеки от этого не надувал.
    При переходе от v1.1 к v1.2 тяга выросла на 15%. У Вулкана в 500 тс/390 тс= 1,28 раза или на 28%.

    Маску явно придётся щёки сдувать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 21.10.2015 07:24:35
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    При переходе от v1.1 к v1.2 тяга выросла на 15%.
    А от 1.0 к 1.1 не считаем чтобы цыфры поменьше были?
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Маску явно придётся щёки сдувать.
    Пусть кое-кто Дримлайнер в этом году запустит для начала. Как 4 года назад обещал.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 21.10.2015 14:45:23
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    А от 1.0 к 1.1 не считаем чтобы цыфры поменьше были?
    Давайте с F1 начнём. ;)

    При переходе от v1.0 к v1.1 ракету пришлось проектировать заново.  Что и требовалось доказать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 30.10.2015 11:44:30
    На что это похоже ..., заправка ракеты:
    https://youtu.be/zWgLsOErV0Y (https://youtu.be/zWgLsOErV0Y)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 30.10.2015 10:24:31
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    При переходе от v1.0 к v1.1 ракету пришлось проектировать заново.
    1) Перепроектировали двигательный отсек, удлинили первую ступень. Можно ссылку что при этом потребовалось силовой набор пересчитывать?
    2) Даже если считать переход на октавеб и удлинение перепроектированием заново, Маск на это 2 миллиарда потратил или таки нет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 31.10.2015 07:00:40
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/58636)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 13.11.2015 06:56:29
    https://twitter.com/SpaceNews_Inc/status/664990522331787264
    ЦитироватьAir Force awards @ulalaunch a $373M contract for production of one Atlas 5 (421) rocket and one Delta 4 Heavy rocket. Both NRO missions.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 13.11.2015 04:43:02
    373 за дельту хэви и атлас разом? неплохо
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 13.11.2015 06:15:55
    Вот только это за производство. Запуск добавит еще 40 %.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 13.11.2015 16:27:18
    Маск, Безос, Бренсон, а теперь и Бруно. Трудно сказать кто кого покусал, но болезнь быстро распространяется и мечтать вслух о захвате Галактики стало модно.

    https://twitter.com/george_sowers/status/664891963762692100(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158845.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.11.2015 20:25:03
    https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/665191103835054080
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)
    In Jan, SpaceX was valued at $12B. Wednesday, Fidelity said value has increased 15%, or $1.8B. Reminder: Aerojet reportedly bid $2B for ULA.
      7:34 - 13 нояб. 2015 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 14.11.2015 10:16:30
    https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/665252874675441664
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)
    .@ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) plan to announce on Thursday a new program to launch CubeSats.
      11:40 - 13 нояб. 2015 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.11.2015 08:32:02
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/16/space-launch-ula-idUSL1N13B2PB20151116
    ЦитироватьMon Nov 16, 2015 6:00pm EST
    Lockheed-Boeing venture says will not bid for US GPS satellite launch       
     By Andrea Shalal (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=andrea.shalal&) and Irene Klotz
     
    Nov 16 United Launch Alliance, a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing Co, on Monday said it would not bid for the next U.S. Air Force global positioning system (GPS) satellite launch, effectively ceding the competition to privately held SpaceX.
    ULA, the monopoly provider of such launches since its creation in 2006, said it was unable to submit a compliant bid because of the way the competition was structured, and because it lacked Russian-built RD-180 engines for its Atlas 5 rocket.
    The Pentagon last month declined to issue a waiver from a U.S. law that last year banned use of the Russian engines for military and spy satellite launches. ULA had said it needed the waiver to compete against SpaceX, officially known as Space Exploration Technologies Corp, the only other company certified to bid for the work.
    Bids were due Monday and the Air Force expects to announce a contract winner in March.
    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno told Reuters that ULA also lacked the accounting systems to comply with the rules of the competition, which requires bidders to certify that funds from other government contracts will not benefit the GPS 3 mission.
    He also said the competition's 'Lowest Price Technically Acceptable' structure meant officials could not differentiate between bids on the basis of reliability, schedule certainty, technical capability and past performance, effectively removing ULA's greatest strengths from consideration.
    Prompted by Russia's annexation of Crimea last year, U.S. lawmakers banned the use of Russian RD-180 rocket engines for military and spy satellite launches after 2019.
    Bruno told Reuters that ULA was disappointed that it could not compete now, but was studying potential sole-source awards and other options for future launch contracts. Bruno told reporters on Oct. 2 that ULA did not have enough engines to bid for the GPS 3 launch, the first of nine military missions identified for possible competition.
    "We look forward to working with the Air Force to address the obstacles to ULA's participation in future launch competitions to enable a full and fair competition," he said in a written statement.
    In an interview with Reuters, Bruno also signaled that ULA would also continue to press Congress for changes in the Russian rocket engine ban, and said he had not decided whether to mount a legal challenge to a potential contract award.
    ULA no longer had a two-year supply of engines in its inventory, Bruno said, noting that it skipped a regular order for the engines in January while awaiting a resolution on how many engines it could use for military launches.
    "We've been burning down through the inventory at a pretty high rate," Bruno said.
    The congressional ban does not affect RD-180 engines used for NASA and commercial missions, but whenever ULA taps its current RD-180 inventory for non-military flights, it cannot order a replacement for later use on a military missions.
    The ban still affects 9 of 29 engines that ULA had ordered from Russia, but not paid for, before Russia annexed Crimea. Five engines that were approved for ULA's use by Congress last year had already been assigned to other missions, and were not available for use in a bid for the new GPS launch, Bruno said.
    Congress is poised to approve the use of four more RD-180 engines in a compromise version of the fiscal 2016 defense authorization bill, but the bill has not yet been enacted into law, and bids were due on Monday.
    SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk last month said ULA's threat to skip the Air Force competition was "nothing less than deceptive brinkmanship" aimed at subverting the will of Congress.
    Bruno said ULA's board would vote in coming days on an order of additional RD-180 engines valued at "several hundred million dollars" for commercial and civil use. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal and Irene Klotz; Editing by Bill Rigby)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Александр Ч. от 17.11.2015 10:54:48
    Еще на ту же тему:
    ЦитироватьMike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN) 8 ч.8 часов назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/666410066225045505)
    Price point to watch: In court docs last year SpaceX told the Air Force it could launch GPS sats for ~$80M.

    Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN) 8 ч.8 часов назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/666408463841558530)
    ULA did not bid for Air Force's GPS 3 launch, citing lack of engines and compliant accounting system. SpaceX had been expected to bid.
    И статья от Майка (кое какие цифры): 
    ULA Declines To Bid on GPS 3 Launch Contract Long Sought by SpaceX (http://spacenews.com/ula-declines-to-bid-on-gps-3-launch-contract-long-sought-by-spacex/#sthash.ZuU0swKu.dpuf)
    Цитироватьby Mike Gruss — November 16, 2015
    WASHINGTON — SpaceX is likely to win — by default — a U.S. Air Force contract to launch a next-generation GPS satellite after United Launch Alliance announced Nov. 16 that it declined to bid.
    ULA, which for the past decade has launched nearly every U.S. national security satellite, said Nov. 16 it did not submit a bid to launch a GPS 3 satellite for the Air Force in 2018 in part because it does not expect to have an Atlas 5 rocket available for the mission. ULA has been pushing for relief from legislation Congress passed roughly a year ago requiring the Air Force to phase out its use of the Russian-made RD-180 engine that powers ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket.

    While ULA warned in early October that RD-180 availability could prevent it from bidding on the GPS 3 launch, the company said Nov. 16 it does not have the right accounting system in place to submit what the Air Force would deem a compliant bid.

    "ULA wants nothing more than to compete, but unfortunately we are unable to submit a compliant bid for GPS III-X launch services," the company said in a statement sent to reporters. "The [request for proposals] requires ULA to certify that funds from other government contracts will not benefit the GPS III launch mission. ULA does not have the accounting systems in place to make that certification, and therefore cannot submit a compliant proposal."

    ULA — which emphasizes the reliability of its Atlas and Delta rockets as an advantage over SpaceX's lower advertised prices  —  also said the Air Force's GPS 3 launch solicitation "allows for no ability to differentiate between competitors on the basis of critical factors such as reliability, schedule certainty, technical capability and past performance."

    The Air Force called for proposals for the GPS 3 launch Sept. 30. Bids were due Nov. 16 with an award expected in March.

    ULA's decision not to bid is a setback for Defense Department efforts to reintroduce competition into a national security launch market that's been a de facto monopoly since Boeing and Lockheed Martin merged their launch businesses in 2006 at the government's request.

    The GPS 3 mission is the first of nine medium-class launches the Air Force intends to put out for bid by the end of 2017. Of the nine, six are for GPS 3 satellites.

    SpaceX, which is eager to break into the lucrative national security launch market, submitted an unsolicited bid in 2012 to launch the GPS 3 satellites for $79.9 million per launch. The Air Force rejected the offer, but initiated a process for certifying the Hawthorne, California-based company's Falcon 9 rocket to carry military and intelligence payloads to orbit.

    ULA, meanwhile, has been working to lower its launch costs. Last month, NASA awarded ULA a $132.4 million contract to launch the Tracking and Data Relay Satellite-M spacecraft aboard an Atlas 5 rocket in October 2017.  NASA paid ULA $187 million to launch the Mars Maven orbiter on an Atlas 5 in 2013.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 17.11.2015 09:57:39
    sic transit gloria mundi
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.11.2015 13:27:17
    ЦитироватьPeter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  (https://twitter.com/pbdes)   18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/667385563578806272)  
    ULA cubesats-on-Atlas-in-2017 announcement says it's free for university/STEM sats. Pricing for non-university sats not addressed.

      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185524.jpg) Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  (https://twitter.com/pbdes)   18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/667384430705668097)  
    A question ULA's Bruno doesnt address: What's USAF think of allowing cubesats to ride aboard Atlas launches of expensive USAF sats?
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185524.jpg) Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  (https://twitter.com/pbdes)   18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/667383214802104320)  
    ULA CEO Bruno: The coming Atlas cubesat platform will offer free rides to student STEM spacecraft.
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185524.jpg) Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  (https://twitter.com/pbdes)   18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/667382730691334144)  
    ULA CEO: Starting mid-2017, Atlas rockets to carry platform for up to 24 cubesats, offering > 2X current global cubesat launch availability.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.11.2015 13:33:25
    https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/667388104458792960
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA Подлинная учетная запись ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)  
    ULA Reveals Transformational CubeSat Program http://bit.ly/1QwwbTr  (https://t.co/F7qQJdPMf3) #ULACubeSats (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ULACubeSats?src=hash) #STEM (https://twitter.com/hashtag/STEM?src=hash)  
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158930.jpg)
      9:04 - 19 нояб. 2015 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.11.2015 13:39:55
    https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/667423676195856388
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA Подлинная учетная запись ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)
    #ULACubeSats (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ULACubeSats?src=hash) will launch on the Aft Bulkhead Carrier (ABC), developed in partnership with @NatReconOfc (https://twitter.com/NatReconOfc) #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158931.jpg)
     11:26 - 19 нояб. 2015 г.

      (https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/597631029248004096/LXkjJcSm_bigger.jpg) Andrew ‏@flyingandrew  (https://twitter.com/flyingandrew)  15 часов назад (https://twitter.com/flyingandrew/status/667427381733388292)
    @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) @NatReconOfc (https://twitter.com/NatReconOfc) any risk to the cubesats being so close to the RL-10?
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)  15 часов назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/667429726420627460)
    .@flyingandrew (https://twitter.com/flyingandrew) @NatReconOfc (https://twitter.com/NatReconOfc) We've flown 55 CubeSats, many on the ABC, including 13 on the recent #NROL55 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NROL55?src=hash) launch. #ULACubeSats (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ULACubeSats?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.11.2015 18:17:20
    Эта музыка будет вечной:
    http://spacenews.com/possible-showdown-looms-in-congress-over-rd-180/
    ЦитироватьPossible Showdown Looms in Congress over RD-180
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — November 20, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155549.jpg)A ULA Atlas 5 emerges from the Vertical Integration Facility at Cape Canaveral in preparation for July's launch of GPS 2F-10. Credit: ULA  
     
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) is considering adding language to a federal spending bill that would allow full U.S. military access to a controversial Russian-made rocket engine until an alternative becomes available, a spokeswoman for the office said Nov. 19.
    The language, if approved, would take the sting out the current ban that threatens to undermine competition in the U.S. national security launch market. United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket, powered by the Russian built RD-180 engine, is considered the only viable competitor to SpaceX's Falcon 9, which only recently entered the market.
    But Shelby could face stiff resistance in both houses of Congress. Leaders of the House and Senate Armed Services committees negotiated a deal in the defense authorization bill that would give ULA access to four RD-180s for upcoming U.S. Air Force launch competitions. The House wanted a larger number, but the Senate position prevailed in conference.
    Shelby, a senior member of the Senate Appropriations defense subcommittee, said in July that Air Force leaders, including Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh, told him ULA needed 18 to 22 more engines to maintain uninterrupted access to space and ensure competition within the launch industry.
    The Atlas 5 is built at ULA's plant in Decatur, Alabama.
    ULA cited the RD-180 engine availability issue as one of the reasons behind its decision not to big against SpaceX in a competition to launch a GPS 3 satellite in 2018. The Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture says it effectively needs unfettered access to the engine over the next several years to keep it competitive until its next-generation Vulcan rocket comes on line around 2021.
    The U.S. Defense Department, like the rest of the government, is currently funded under a continuing resolution that expires Dec. 11. Shelby is eying the follow-on spending bill, which must pass to avoid a government shutdown, as the vehicle for relaxing the RD-180 ban, said Torrie Matuos, a spokeswoman for the senator.
    Shelby did not yet have specific language he hoped to introduce, Matous said.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.11.2015 00:41:30
    http://spacenews.com/ula-making-cubesat-dispenser-standard-on-all-atlas-5-rockets/
    ЦитироватьULA Making Cubesat Dispenser Standard on all Atlas 5 Rockets
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — November 23, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155548.jpg)A United Launch Alliance animation showing two cubesats deploying from the 24-cubesat dispenser the Denver company says its making standard on all Atlas 5 rockets beginning in 2017. Credit: ULA  
     
    WASHINGTON — United Launch Alliance announced Nov. 19 it will carry as many as 24 cubesats on each launch of its Atlas 5 rocket beginning in mid-2017.
    The initiative comes amid continued complaints from small-satellite companies and universities about a lack of timely and affordable access to space.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155570.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/ULA_tory-bruno-videgrab2015-11-19.jpg)ULA President and CEO Tory Bruno. Credit: ULA video
    "There is a growing need for universities to have access and availability to launch their CubeSats and this program will transform the way these universities get to space by making space more affordable and accessible," Tory Bruno, ULA's president and chief executive, said in a statement.
    About 160 cubesats launched last year worldwide, according to Bruno. Assuming the Atlas 5 launches 10 times year, Bruno said, ULA could launch as many as 240 per year as part of the new program.
    ULA has launched 55 cubesats into orbit as secondary payloads to date, most recently on an Atlas 5 mission carrying a classified satellite for the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office. The cubesats were deployed from a special adapter called the Aft Bulkhead Carrier attached to the vehicle's upper stage.
    The Aft Bulkhead Carrier will now become a standard part of the Atlas 5 offering, Bruno said.
    "You won't pay to put cubesat carriers on our rockets; you would have to pay to take them off," Bruno said in a short video about the cubesat initiative. "This is going to change everything and completely open that world."
    Bruno made the cubesat announcement  at the University of Colorado, Boulder, which ULA said  will have a free slot for a cubesat in 2017. Other universities will be able to compete  in the coming year for up to six free slots on an upcoming launch.
    "We want to be America's ride to space for all cubesats," said Chris Chavez, ULA's director of community and government affairs.

    https://youtu.be/mWLseT0sC0s (https://youtu.be/mWLseT0sC0s)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.11.2015 09:03:22
    http://spacenews.com/mccain-urges-appropriators-to-uphold-rd-180-ban/#sthash.TU0aremk.dpuf
    ЦитироватьMcCain Urges Appropriators To Uphold RD-180 Ban
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — November 23, 2015
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155560.jpg)
    U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) during a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing in October. Credit: Adrian Cadiz/OSD/Flickr
     
    WASHINGTON –  U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) has asked the chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), to reject the idea of inserting a provision into a must-pass federal spending bill that would give the U.S. military access to a controversial Russian rocket engine until an alternative becomes available.
    The provision, if approved, would effectively neutralize the Russian engine ban imposed by Congress following Russia's incursion into Ukraine in 2014. Government launch services provider United Launch Alliance, whose workhorse Atlas 5 rocket is powered by the Russian-built RD-180 engine, has said the ban will leave it unable to compete for future U.S. military business against newcomer SpaceX.
    McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, supported a provision in the National Defense Authorization Act of 2016, now awaiting the president's signature, that gives ULA access to four more RD-180s for upcoming competitions, a number the company says is not nearly enough to keep it in the military launch business until it can field a new rocket around 2021. The House version of that bill would have granted ULA access to nine more engines, but the Senate position prevailed.
    Now, however, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee, is considering adding language to a spending bill that would give the Air Force access to the RD-180 until an alternative becomes available, his office has said. The Defense Department, like the rest of the federal government, is currently funded under a continuing resolution that expires Dec. 11, and a new bill must be passed to avoid a government shutdown.
    ULA builds the Atlas 5 at its factory in Decatur, Alabama.
    In a Nov. 19 letter,  McCain asked Cochran to "respect the well-informed work my committee took" and to avoid the "year-over-year relitigation" of the engine issue.
    "Recent attempts by the incumbent contractor to manufacture a crisis by prematurely diminishing its stockpile of engines purchased prior to the Russian invasion of Crimea should be viewed with skepticism and scrutinized heavily," McCain wrote in the letter, a copy of which was obtained by SpaceNews. "Such efforts should not be misconstrued as a compelling reason to undermine any sanctions on Russia while they occupy Crimea, destabilize Ukraine, bolster Assad in Syria, send weapons to Iran and violate the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty."
    McCain said the NDAA achieves a "delicate balance" that gives ULA time to transition to new technology.
    "I believe avoiding the year-over-year re-litigation of this matter between our authorizing and appropriating committees is in our best interest, inasmuch as such back-and-forth only delay our shared to desire to eliminate Russian technology from our space launch supply chain and injects instability into the [Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle] program – not conducive to its success in ensuring the reliable launch of our most sensitive national security satellites or the stability of the fragile industrial base that supports them," he said.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.12.2015 08:41:35
    http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-airforce-engine-idUSL1N13X2TW20151209#QDDZz3w7kye1OeA6.99
    ЦитироватьUS Air Force eyes contracts for Russian engine follow-on in months
     WASHINGTON  |  By Andrea Shalal (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=andrea.shalal&)
       
     Dec 8 The U.S. Air Force expects to award initial small-scale contracts in two months or sooner for work on a replacement for banned Russian rocket engines, General John Hyten, commander of U.S. Air Force Space Command said on Tuesday.
    The Air Force has received a wide range of proposals for a U.S. built engine to end U.S. reliance on the Russian RD-180 engine, which powers the workhorse Atlas 5 rocket, Hyten told reporters after an event hosted by the Air Force Association's Mitchell Institute.
    "I would expect those awards in the next two month, probably sooner," Hyten said.
    Reuters reported Monday, quoting two sources familiar with the matter, that the Air Force was in talks with Aerojet Rocketdyne Holdings Inc about government funding for the AR-1 rocket engine that it is developing.
    The Air Force is also in discussions about a possible contract with privately held Space Exploration Technologies, or SpaceX, according to a source familiar with the issue.
    Work on the new engines gained urgency after U.S. lawmakers passed a ban on use of Russian RD-180 engines for launches of U.S. military or spy satellites following Russia's annexation of the Crimea region of Ukraine last year.
    Hyten said the Air Force "desperately" wanted to end its use of the Russian engines, but needed relief from the ban in the short term to ensure that it always had two separate ways to launch satellites into space in case one rocket failed.
    The Air Force had been expected to award initial contracts for work on the new engines in the fourth quarter of 2015, but that date has now slipped by several months. The Air Force plans to split a total of about $160 million among rival bidders.
    It was not immediately clear if Blue Origin, owned by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, was also in the mix.
    Blue Origin is developing an engine for United Launch Alliance (ULA), a 50-50 rocket launch venture of Lockheed Martin Corp and Boeing Co, although ULA is also maintaining a contract with Aerojet as a back-up plan.
    The Air Force did not initiate contract talks with another industry team that included Pratt & Whitney, a unit of United Technologies Corp, which had proposed building a U.S. version of the RD-180 engine, according to one of the sources cited by Reuters on Monday. (Reporting by Andrea Shalal; Editing by David Gregorio (http://blogs.reuters.com/search/journalist.php?edition=us&n=david.gregorio&))
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.12.2015 15:19:04
    https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/674280140344545280
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)  
    Air Force plans to sole source two Delta 4 Heavy launches to United Launch Alliance. Launches in '21 and '22.
      9:31 - 8 дек. 2015 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 10.12.2015 11:57:59
    http://spacenews.com/mccain-will-consider-wider-russian-engine-ban/#sthash.6VPP6EqU.dpuf
    ЦитироватьMcCain Will Consider Wider Russian Engine Ban
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — December 9, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155436.jpg)
    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said in a Dec. 8 letter he would consider an "unrestricted prohibition" on a Russian rocket engine. Credit: U.S. Army Chief of Staff  
     
    WASHINGTON – U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said he would consider an "unrestricted prohibition" on the Russian rocket engine that powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket following the company's decision not to bid on the Defense Department's first competitive launch contract in a decade.
    In a Dec. 8 letter to U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, McCain, who chairs the Senate Armed Services Committee, also requested an audit of ULA's accounting systems and a report on whether the company tried to "subvert" Congress by assigning non-military missions to its controversial Atlas 5 rocket, which is powered by the Russian-built RD-180 engine.
    Both requests relate to ULA's explanation of why it did not bid to launch a GPS 3 satellite in 2018, effectively ceding the contract to rival SpaceX of Hawthorne, California. McCain said he was "troubled" by ULA's explanation, which cited the congressionally imposed ban on future use of Russian engines for military launches and issues related to the structure of the procurement.
    Specifically, ULA said it did not have an engine available for the mission in question, nor did it have the accounting systems to certify that its existing Air Force business would not benefit its bid, as the procurement required. In addition, ULA said the Air Force's selection criteria gave little weight to past performance and reliablity, two of the company's strengths.
    "These tactics are inappropriate and intended to support an effort in the Congress to subvert the authorization process," McCain said. The recently passed National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2016, drafted in part by McCain's committee, exempted four engines from the ban for future competitions, but ULA is seeking much broader relief.
    Jessica Rye, a spokeswoman for Denver-based ULA, declined to comment.
    In the letter, McCain said he found ULA's claim that it did not have an engine available for the competition "especially dubious."
    The National Defense Authorization Act for 2015, which imposed the Russian engine ban, exempted five engines the company already had in possession to enable ULA to compete for national security launches. But in early October, shortly after the Air Force issued a request for bids on the GPS launch, ULA said those engines had been allocated to nonmilitary missions, which are not covered by the ban.
    "Instead of setting those engines aside for national security launches, ULA rushed to assign them to non-national security launches that are unrestricted in their use of Russian engines," McCain wrote.
    McCain asked the Defense Department to report on "when ULA first began assigning rockets to specific launches and when it first started to reassign launches to prevent the use of RD-180s that were originally available for competitive launches." The senator also asked Carter to work with the NASA administrator to determine "whether ULA's reassigning those engines was early-to-need and if ULA could have procured other engines in time to meet actual launch dates."
    Finally, McCain said he was worried that ULA accounting system could undermine future Air Force launch competitions. The GPS 3 mission is the first of nine medium-class launches the Air Force intends to put out for bid by the end of 2017. Of the nine, six are for GPS 3 satellites.
    ULA has said modifying its accounting system would throw it out of compliance with those existing contracts. The Air Force requires certification that ULA's other Air Force business does not benefit its bids.
    Each year, the Air Force pays ULA about $800 million to $1 billion to help cover overhead costs and services not necessarily associated with a given launch. This contract has been branded as a subsidy by ULA's competitors.
    "ULA asserts it is unable to differentiate such costs sufficiently in order to submit a compliant proposal," McCain wrote. "It would also suggest that ULA will not be able to compete for any future launch that would require an 'apples-to-apples' comparison between the highly-subsidized incumbent and unsubsidized new entrants."
    McCain's letter did not elaborate on his plan to broaden the ban on Russian-made engine technology. Banning the use of the RD-180 for NASA missions, for example, likely would require a legislation that typically falls under the jurisdiction of different congressional committee.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 10.12.2015 12:00:54
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2015/12/10/782953.html
    ЦитироватьМаккейн пригрозил окончательно запретить российские ракетные двигатели в США
    10 декабря 2015, 05:24

    Сенатор-республиканец Джон Маккейн в письме главе Пентагона Эштону Картеру пригрозил немедленно установить полный запрет на использование российских ракетных двигателей РД-180.

    В своем послании Маккейн обвинил компанию United Launch Alliance в попытках манипулировать Конгрессом США, чтобы добиться разрешения на закупку дополнительного количества РД-180, передает ТАСС.

    Он назвал тактику ULA «неприемлемой и направленной на срыв бюджетного процесса в Конгрессе». В связи с этим сенатор, возглавляющий комитет по делам вооруженных сил, сообщил министру, что намерен «рассмотреть возможность введения неограниченного запрета на использование российских ракетных двигателей».

    Сотрудники аппарата Конгресса пояснили, что под этим имеется в виду отмена всех исключений, установленных по поводу РД-180.

    Представители Пентагона сообщили в среду, что ответы председателю сенатского комитета по делам вооруженных сил будут даны в установленный срок, но от каких-либо комментариев воздержались. В ULA эту сложную проблему также решили пока не комментировать.

    Напомним, что ракеты Atlas V используют российский двигатель РД-180 и заменить его США фактически нечем. Военный бюджет США на 2015 финансовый год разрешил консорциуму ULA закупить пять таких двигателей, а бюджет на 2016 финансовый год – еще четыре.

    ВВС США и ULA обратились с просьбой к Конгрессу смягчить жесткие требования.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 10.12.2015 11:52:51
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    http://www.vz.ru/news/2015/12/10/782953.html
    ЦитироватьМаккейн пригрозил окончательно запретить российские ракетные двигатели в США
    10 декабря 2015, 05:24

    Сенатор-республиканец Джон Маккейн в письме главе Пентагона Эштону Картеру пригрозил немедленно установить полный запрет на использование российских ракетных двигателей РД-180.

    В своем послании Маккейн обвинил компанию United Launch Alliance в попытках манипулировать Конгрессом США, чтобы добиться разрешения на закупку дополнительного количества РД-180, передает ТАСС.

    Он назвал тактику ULA «неприемлемой и направленной на срыв бюджетного процесса в Конгрессе». В связи с этим сенатор, возглавляющий комитет по делам вооруженных сил, сообщил министру, что намерен «рассмотреть возможность введения неограниченного запрета на использование российских ракетных двигателей».

    Сотрудники аппарата Конгресса пояснили, что под этим имеется в виду отмена всех исключений, установленных по поводу РД-180.

    Представители Пентагона сообщили в среду, что ответы председателю сенатского комитета по делам вооруженных сил будут даны в установленный срок, но от каких-либо комментариев воздержались. В ULA эту сложную проблему также решили пока не комментировать.

    Напомним, что ракеты Atlas V используют российский двигатель РД-180 и заменить его США фактически нечем. Военный бюджет США на 2015 финансовый год разрешил консорциуму ULA закупить пять таких двигателей, а бюджет на 2016 финансовый год – еще четыре.

    ВВС США и ULA обратились с просьбой к Конгрессу смягчить жесткие требования.
    Маккейну, видимо, здорово отбили мозги во вьетнамском плену :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 10.12.2015 12:59:38
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет: 
    Маккейну, видимо, здорово отбили мозги во вьетнамском плену  :D
    Откуда у лётчика мозги?  :oops:
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 10.12.2015 13:28:51
    "такую личную неприязнь я испытываю, что кушать не могу ..."  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 10.12.2015 12:15:52
    интересно, кто ему бабла занес....
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 10.12.2015 15:19:55
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    интересно, кто ему бабла занес....
    Первый кандидат как бы очевиден...  :)  

    Впрочем есть еще длинный список тех кто _не_ занес, но по его мнению должен был бы...  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 10.12.2015 18:57:15
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Первый кандидат как бы очевиден... :)
    А кто? Неужели Маск?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 10.12.2015 21:20:31
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Первый кандидат как бы очевиден...  :)  
    А кто? Неужели Маск?
    Я же говорю очевиден :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 11.12.2015 08:23:00
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Первый кандидат как бы очевиден...  :)  
    А кто? Неужели Маск?
    Я же говорю очевиден  :)
    не уверен. скорее рокетдайн, у Маска бизнес ок, а вот у них
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.12.2015 11:34:55
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Первый кандидат как бы очевиден...  :)  
    А кто? Неужели Маск?
    Я же говорю очевиден  :)  
    не уверен. скорее рокетдайн, у Маска бизнес ок, а вот у них
    Тогда скорее Безос :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 11.12.2015 08:44:57
    Безосу надо, чтобы атлас продержался хоть как-то до подхода вулкана.  А вдруг атлас все, вулкана еще нет, а рокетдайн успеет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.12.2015 11:47:04
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    Безосу надо, чтобы атлас продержался хоть как-то до подхода вулкана. А вдруг атлас все, вулкана еще нет, а рокетдайн успеет?
    Так у Безоса двигатель будет готов на 2 года раньше чем у Аэроджета. Аэроджету тем более надо чтобы Атлас продержался.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 11.12.2015 09:25:34
    А толк от безосовского двигателя без готовности всего вулкана? Аэроджет же намекает, что как только сделают двигатель, то в атлас его вставить быстро
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.12.2015 12:42:18
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    А толк от безосовского двигателя без готовности всего вулкана? Аэроджет же намекает, что как только сделают двигатель, то в атлас его вставить быстро
    Как быстро ставить новый двигатель хорошо видно на примере Антареса. Если AR-1 будет готов в 2019 все равно понадобится еще 1-2 года на переделку Атласа. ULA не будет вкладывать большие деньги в новую ракету до тех пор пока не будет полностью готов и протестирован двигатель. Они хотят быть уверены что двигатель надежен.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 11.12.2015 10:59:52
    AJ как раз и показывает антарес как пример :)
    и все же переделку ракеты можно начать раньше финальной готовности двигателя
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 11.12.2015 18:59:42
    http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/12/10/suddenly-spacex-is-the-only-game-in-town.aspx?source=eptfxblnk0000004#.VmoWjWTRsmo.facebook
    ЦитироватьSuddenly, SpaceX Is the Only Game in Town With tens of billions of dollars up for grabs, ULA is suddenly AWOL.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/138354.png)
    REP. Mike Rogers, CHAIRING THE U.S. HOUSE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES HEARING in March, explaining why the U.S. needs price competition on satellite launches. But now we won't get it. IMAGE source: YOUTUBE STILL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ff_5jF_3QU&feature=youtu.be).
    Turns out Tory Bruno (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/29/can-spacex-cut-cost-of-space-travel-75-percent.aspx) wasn't just whistling Dixie.
    At a hearing before the U.S. House Armed Services Committee (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/28/5-things-i-learned-america-space-program-youtube.aspx) in March, United Launch Alliance CEO Salvatore "Tory" Bruno issued an ultimatum: Congress must either lift its ban on the purchase of new RD-180 Russian rocket motors for use in America's space program or resign itself to letting one single space provider dictate prices to the government on all future satellite launches.
    Turns out, it's going to be Door No. 2.
    Спойлер
    A bit of history
     
    Mind you, this is a situation that Congress has endured for years. Historically, Bruno's own company, ULA, a joint venture between Boeing (NYSE:BA (http://www.fool.com/quote/nyse/the-boeing-company/ba)) and Lockheed Martin (NYSE:LMT (http://www.fool.com/quote/nyse/lockheed-martin-corp/lmt)), was the only entity certified to send America's most sensitive military satellites into space. As such, ULA could basically name its own price for conducting those missions.
    Congress got a chance to fix that when, earlier this year, first NASA then the U.S. Air Force certified ULA rival SpaceX to launch these same kinds of payloads into orbit. But no sooner had Congress introduced price competition into the market than it made such competition impossible.
    In October, the Pentagon refused a ULA request to waive its ban on Russian RD-180 rocket motors. One month later, ULA confirmed in November that because of this ban, ULA was unable to bid on the Pentagon's new "GPS III Launch Services" contract.
    ULA's Lockheed Martin-built Atlas V rocket, you see, could conceivably have been used in a bid on GPS III. But Atlas relies on RD-180 motors to power it into space. ULA's other big rocket, the Boeing-built Delta IV, doesn't use RD-180s, but it costs too much to use on GPS III.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/138353.jpg)
    The Air Force's new GPS III satellite. Lockheed will get to build it -- they just won't get to launch it. Image source: Lockheed Martin (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/content/dam/lockheed/data/space/photo/pressrelease/AFG-100825-006-gps-pr.jpg).

    What it means to ULA
     
    As a result, ULA has declared itself effectively shut out of the military satellite launch market -- a "multiyear" exile that will last until either (a) Congress lifts the RD-180 ban, or (b) ULA succeeds in developing a new rocket to replace RD-180 (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/27/who-will-power-americas-amazing-new-space-rocket.aspx).
    With option A looking increasingly unlikely, ULA is now hard at work on option B. In September, the company announced plans to move ahead with production of its first choice to replace the Russian rocket motor, Blue Origin's BE-4 methane-and-liquid-oxygen-fueled engine. If all goes well, BE-4 could be ready to "qualify" for flight as early as 2017. Years of tests will still be needed after that, so best case, it looks like ULA will cede the military satellite market to SpaceX until at least 2019.
    And that's if everything goes right. If BE-4 turns out to be a dud, ULA must turn to its second choice, the AR1 rocket currently under development by Aerojet Rocketdyne. That one's more than a year behind BE-4 in development, though. Choosing AR1, therefore, could keep ULA out of this important market through 2020.

    What it means to SpaceX
     
    Meanwhile, as ULA sits on the bench, SpaceX will be making out like a bandit -- and making major bank as it wins contract after contract, uncontested.
    How much could SpaceX earn while ULA cools its heels? The U.S. Government Accountability Office estimates the value of U.S. military satellite work at roughly $70 billion over the next 15 years. Unless something significant changes, and changes soon, SpaceX should be able to claim one-third of that loot for itself, unopposed -- and then proceed to bid competitively on the final two-thirds. So how much could SpaceX win for itself, ultimately?
    It all depends on how altruistic Elon Musk is feeling, and whether he chooses to take as full advantage of his newfound space launch monopoly as ULA did when ULA was top of the heap. But billions for sure -- and tens or twenties of billions are not at all out of the question.
    In short, the future is looking very bright indeed for SpaceX. I only wish we could own it. (http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/09/21/how-much-is-spacex-stock-worth.aspx)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/138355.jpg)
     SpaceX's future's so bright, it's gotta wear shades -- even at night! Image source: 
    SpaceX (http://www.spacex.com/media-gallery/detail/117776/3961).
    Rich Smith (http://my.fool.com/profile/TMFDitty/info.aspx)
     does not own shares of, nor is he short, any company named above. You can find him on Motley Fool CAPS (http://caps.fool.com/), publicly pontificating under the handle TMFDitty (http://caps.fool.com/ViewPlayer.aspx?t=01002844399633209838), where he's currently ranked No. 318 out of more than 75,000 rated members.

    The Motley Fool has no position in any of the stocks mentioned. Try any of our Foolish newsletter services free for 30 days (http://www.fool.com/shop/newsletters/index.aspx?source=isiedilnk018048). We Fools may not all hold the same opinions, but we all believe that considering a diverse range of insights (http://wiki.fool.com/Motley) makes us better investors. The Motley Fool has a disclosure policy (http://www.fool.com/Legal/fool-disclosure-policy.aspx).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 15.12.2015 08:52:46
    http://spacenews.com/like-it-or-not-congress-will-have-to-revisit-rd-180-ban/
    [
    ЦитироватьSIZE=6]Like It or Not, Congress Will Have To Revisit RD-180 Ban[/SIZE]
    by SpaceNews Editor (http://spacenews.com/author/spacenews-editor/) — December 14, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155573.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket is powered by the Russian RD-180 engine. Credit: ULA  

     
    Editorial
    There were several defining themes in 2015, but none matched the drama and intrigue surrounding United Launch Alliance, the Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture that once monopolized the U.S. government launch market but now finds itself in a potentially suffocating squeeze between a competitive challenge from upstart SpaceX and a congressional ban on the Russian-made engine that powers its most versatile and economical rocket.
    Спойлер
    The latest act took place in mid-November, when ULA announced it did not bid on a GPS 3 satellite launching contract, effectively ceding what was to be the U.S. Air Force's first competitively awarded launch in more than a decade to its arch nemesis.
    The attention-grabbing move was not a huge sacrifice given that ULA would have been hard pressed to win the contract under any circumstances; it cannot match SpaceX's prices, and GPS launches fit well within the envelope of the latter's Falcon 9 rocket. It was a tactical withdrawal by a company with a bigger prize in mind: a competitive playing field that's more to its liking, most significantly including relief from the Russian engine ban that threatens to sideline its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket.
    Currently ULA has only four RD-180 engines available for the competitive phase of the Air Force's satellite launching program, which is only a fraction of what the company needs to stay in the game over the long term. ULA has designed a new rocket dubbed Vulcan that features a U.S.-made engine, but this vehicle will not be available until around 2021, assuming the project gets funded — which is by no means a given.
    Explaining its no-bid decision in a press statement, ULA cited the engine ban and a procurement structure that it said was tilted in favor of SpaceX.
    As a rationale, the engine ban was valid only by virtue of ULA's puzzling decision, cited when the company threatened not to bid for the contract back in early October, to allocate five RD-180s that previously were deemed exempt from the ban to nonmilitary missions. The ban does not extend to civil and commercial missions.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155435.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/John_McCain-Army_Chief_Staff.jpg)
    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) accused ULA of seeking to "manufacture a crisis by prematurely diminishing its stockpile of engines" available for military competitions. Credit: U.S. Army Chief of Staff

    Moreover, by mid-November it had become clear that Congress would pass defense authorization legislation making four additional engines available for competition. That bill was finalized Nov. 10, presented to the president a week later and signed into law Nov. 25.
    Another issue cited by ULA was a requirement that it certify that none of its existing Air Force business could be leveraged to support its bid. ULA said it did not have the accounting system in place to comply with that requirement, and that modifying its system accordingly would have thrown it out of compliance with its existing Air Force contracts.
    Whatever the merit of that argument, it's noteworthy that it emerged only after the bidding had closed. In previously threatening not to bid, ULA focused on the engine ban. Moreover, federal procurements tend to be an iterative process involving a lot of back and forth between buyer and bidder. Did ULA not raise this issue during that process? Were its concerns ignored?
    ULA's other complaint might best explain its no-bid decision, although it doesn't necessarily flag a deficiency in the Air Force's process. The procurement's so-called lowest-cost technically acceptable structure, ULA said, shortchanges other factors such as reliability, past performance and schedule certainty. In other words, it effectively neutralizes ULA's competitive strengths.
    Whether future competitive launch procurements should be structured this way might depend on the mission. While GPS provides absolutely critical military and civilian capabilities, the constellation is very robust, meaning the Air Force can take on a bit more risk with a single GPS satellite than it might with a billion-dollar intelligence or missile warning satellite.
    One lawmaker who's not buying ULA's explanation is Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a longtime company critic who, as chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, saw to it that the latest defense bill provides only very limited relief from the RD-180 ban. In a letter to colleagues on the Senate Appropriations Committee, who are considering providing broader relief in an omnibus spending bill for 2016, Mr. McCain accused ULA of seeking to "manufacture a crisis by prematurely diminishing its stockpile of engines" available for military competitions.
    In a subsequent letter to U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter, Mr. McCain reiterated that concern and disputed, with strong supporting arguments, each of ULA's stated reasons for not bidding. Appropriately, Mr. McCain demanded that ULA's maneuvers be subjected to rigorous Defense Department scrutiny.
    It is of course for ULA to decide whether it bids for any given contract, although as Mr. McCain implied, the government isn't paying the company nearly $1 billion for overhead costs each year — the senator branded it a subsidy — to have it sit out competitions. Mr. McCain also has a point, based on Senate protocol, in appealing to appropriators not to undo the terms of the engine ban crafted by his committee.
    But the hard truth is that if ULA is to remain competitive in the U.S. government launch market — and policymakers in Washington are firm on the requirement to have at least two providers — it is going to need more Russian engines than currently available, whether or not a U.S. alternative is ready to fly by the end of the decade. How many more is not clear, but four — or even nine, should ULA find a way to reallocate the five exempted engines to the military market — is not sufficient. To their credit, senior members of the Senate Appropriations Committee are asking the Pentagon for clarity on that matter. But as much as Mr. McCain wants to avoid "year-over-year re-litigation" of the issue, his position, however principled, is most likely going to make that necessary.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 16.12.2015 12:07:47
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185623.jpg) Tory Bruno ‏@torybruno  (https://twitter.com/torybruno)  11 дек. (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/675309406070792192)  
    Working some cool tech on long storage of cryo and on orbit refueling. Here's an InfoG on one of the test beds.  
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158966.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 16.12.2015 16:28:57
    http://spacenews.com/spending-bill-lifts-rd-180-ban-puts-ula-back-in-competitive-game/

    ЦитироватьSpending Bill Lifts RD-180 Ban, Puts ULA Back in Competitive Gameby Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — December 16, 2015
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155447.jpg)
    The RD-180, shown above in a test firing, is the main engine on ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket. Credit: NASA



    WASHINGTON – A massive U.S. government spending bill, released by lawmakers Dec. 16, effectively ends a ban on the Russian rocket engine that powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket and re-energizes competition for Defense Department launch contracts between ULA and SpaceX.
    The new language, included in the omnibus spending bill for 2016, says "that notwithstanding any other provision of law" the Air Force could award a launch contract to any certified company "regardless of the country of origin of the rocket engine that will be used on its launch vehicle, in order to ensure robust competition and continued assured access to space."
    The Russian-built RD-180 engine powers ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which is used to launch a majority of national security satellites. The Atlas 5 is considered the only competitor to SpaceX's Falcon 9 for nine upcoming military launches.
    Congress banned future use of Russian engines for U.S. national security launches in the National Defense Authorization Act for 2015 as a response to Russia's 2014 incursion into neighboring Ukraine. Lawmakers, the Air Force and ULA have been debating the specific terms of the ban ever since.
    The language in the 2016 spending bill comes about one month after Denver-based ULA said it declined to bid for the right to launch a GPS 3 satellite in 2018, effectively ceding the contract to SpaceX. ULA cited multiple reasons for not bidding, the engine ban among them.
    The recently National Defense Authorization Act for 2016 provided limited relief from the ban, giving ULA access to four more engines for upcoming Air Force competitions, this after the company said five previously exempted engines were assigned to nonmilitary missions.
    But with appropriations bill still in play, the office of Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.), indicated it was considering lifting the ban in that legislation.
    ULA builds the Atlas 5 in Decatur, Alabama.
    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a frequent ULA critic, urged his Appropriations Committee colleagues to adhere to the 2016 NDAA, but to no avail.
    The 2016 spending bill also provides $227 million to accelerate development of an American replacement for the RD-180. That's about $143 million more than the White House's budget request, according to a summary of Defense Department spending in the bill.
    The engine development effort has a $220 million budget for 2015, but the Air Force requested only $84 million for 2016.
    Congress mandated last year that the Defense Department develop a domestic engine that would be ready to fly by 2019.


    Кажется запрет на РД-180 снят.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 16.12.2015 22:27:58
    А баба-яга Маккейн против:
    http://spacenews.com/full-text-mccain-blasts-appropriators-for-lifting-rd-180-ban/
    ЦитироватьFull Text | McCain Blasts Appropriators for Lifting RD-180 Ban
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — December 16, 2015
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155371.jpg)
    "Here we stand with a 2000-page omnibus appropriations bill, crafted in secret with no debate, which most of us are seeing for the first time this morning" Sen. John McCain said in a Dec. 16 floor speech. "And buried within it is a policy provision that would effectively allow unlimited purchases and use of Russian rocket engines. What is going on here?"
     
    Спойлер
    U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took to the Senate floor Dec. 16  to blast the Senate Appropriations Committee for eliminating  restrictions Congress imposed last year on the Pentagon's use of Russian-built RD-180 rocket engines.
    United Launch Alliance, whose workhorse Atlas 5 rocket is powered by the RD-180, cited the ban among its reasons for not bidding last month on a contract to launch a GPS-3 satellite for the U.S. Air Force.
    McCain, who is chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said the RD-180 provisions appropriators included in a must-pass omnibus spending bill released overnight violates Senate protocol and represents "a direct dismembering" of the 2016 National Defense Authorization Act, which provided more-limited relief from the RD-180 ban.
    Below are his prepared remarks:
    I rise to call attention to the triumph of pork barrel parochialism in this year's Omnibus Appropriations Bill—in particular, a policy provision that was airdropped into this bill, in direct contravention to the National Defense Authorization Act, which will have U.S. taxpayers subsidize Russian aggression and "comrade capitalism."
    Nearly two years ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin, furious that the Ukrainian people had ousted a pro-Moscow stooge, invaded Ukraine and annexed Crimea. It was the first time since the days of Hitler and Stalin that brute force had been projected across an internationally-recognized border to dismember a sovereign state on the European continent. More than 8,000 people have died in this conflict, including 298 innocent people aboard Malaysian Airlines Flight 17, who were murdered by Vladimir Putin's loyal supporters with weapons he supplied them.
    Putin's imperialist campaign in Eastern Europe forced a recognition, for anyone who was not yet convinced, that we are confronting a challenge that many had assumed was resigned to the history books: a strong, militarily-capable Russian government that is hostile to our interests and our values, and seeks to challenge the international order that American leaders of both parties have sought to maintain since the end of World War II.
    That's why the Congress imposed tough sanctions against Russia, especially against Putin's cronies and their enormous, and enormously corrupt, business empire. As part of that effort, Congress passed the Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), which restricted the Air Force from using Russian-made RD-180 rocket engines for national security space launches — engines that are manufactured by a Russian company controlled by some of Putin's top cronies. We did so not only because our nation should not rely on Russia to access space, but because it is simply immoral to help subsidize Russia's intervention in Ukraine and line the pockets of Putin's gang of thugs who profit from the sale of Russian rocket engines.
    Last year's NDAA exempted the five of engines United Launch Alliance (ULA) purchased before the invasion of Ukraine. This allowed ULA, the space launch company that for years has enjoyed a monopoly on launching military satellites, to use those Russian rocket engines if the Secretary of Defense determined it was necessitated by national security.
    Since the passage of the FY15 NDAA in the Senate, 89 to 11, Russia has continued to destabilize Ukraine and menace our NATO allies in Europe with aggressive military behavior. Putin has sent advanced weapons to Iran and violated the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Force Treaty. Now, in a profound echo of the Cold War, Russia has intervened militarily in Syria on behalf of the murderous regime of Bashar al-Assad. Clearly, Russian behavior has only gotten worse.
    That is why, just a few weeks ago, Congress acted again, and passed the Fiscal Year 2016 National Defense Authorization Act. The NDAA authorized $300 million dollars in security assistance and intelligence support for Ukraine to resist Russian aggression. At the same time, the bill recognized that a small number of Russian engines could be needed to maintain competition in the national security space launch program and facilitate a smooth transition to rockets with U.S. made engines. Therefore the legislation allowed ULA to use a total of nine Russian engines.
    The FY16 NDAA, including its provision limiting the use of Russian rocket engines, was debated for months. The Committee on Armed Services had a vigorous debate over this important issue. An amendment was offered to maintain the restriction on the Air Force's use of Russian rocket engines, and in a positive vote of the Committee, the amendment was adopted. We then considered hundreds of amendments to this defense authorization bill on the Senate floor over a period of two weeks, and did so transparently and with an open amendment process that was a credit to the Majority Leader. There was not one amendment called up to change the provision of the NDAA concerning RD-180 rocket engines. The legislation passed with 71 votes. Then, because of a misguided presidential veto, this defense legislation was actually considered a second time on the floor of the Senate, and this time it passed 91 to 3.
    Here is my point: The Senate had this debate. We had ample time and opportunity to have this debate. And through months of this fulsome debate, no Senator came to the Senate floor to make the case that we need to buy more Russian rocket engines. No Senator introduced an amendment on the floor to lift the restriction on buying more Russian rocket engines. To the contrary, the Senate and the full Congress voted, overwhelmingly and repeatedly, to maintain this restriction. This is a policy issue, and it was resolved, as it should be, on the defense policy bill.
    And yet, here we stand with a 2000-page omnibus appropriations bill, crafted in secret with no debate, which most of us are seeing for the first time this morning. And buried within it is a policy provision that would effectively allow unlimited purchases and use of Russian rocket engines.
    What is going on here?
    ULA wants more Russian engines. Plain and simple. That's why ULA recently asked the Defense Department to waive the NDAA's restriction on the basis of national security and let it use a Russian engine for the first competitive national security space launch. The Defense Department declined.
    So, what did ULA do when it didn't get its way? It manufactured a crisis. Though the Department of Defense is restricted in using these Russian rocket engines, there is no similar restriction on NASA or commercial space launches. So ULA rushed to assign the RD-180s that it had in its inventory to these non-national security launches, despite the fact that there is no restriction on the use of Russian engines for those launches. This artificial crisis has now been seized on by ULA's Capitol Hill leading sponsors, namely the senior Senator from Alabama, Senator Shelby, and the senior Senator from Illinois, Senator Durbin, to overturn the NDAA's restriction.
    And that is exactly what they've done—again, secretly, non-transparently, as part of this massive Omnibus Appropriations bill. As I said, neither Senator Shelby nor Senator Durbin, nor any other Senator, raised objections to the provisions of the NDAA or offered any alternatives during the authorization process on the Senate floor.
    In fact, as I have said, when this issue was debated and voted on in the Committee on Armed Services, the authorizing committee of jurisdiction voted in favor of maintaining the restriction. Instead, my colleagues on the Appropriations Committee crafted a provision in secret with no debate to overturn the will of the Senate as expressed in two National Defense Authorization Acts. And the result will enable a monopolistic corporation to send potentially hundreds of millions of dollars to Vladimir Putin and his corrupt cronies and deepen America's reliance on these thugs for our military's access to space.
    This is outrageous. And it is shameful. And it is the height of hypocrisy, especially for my colleagues who claim to care about the plight of Ukraine and the need to punish Russia for its aggression. How can our government tell European governments that they need to hold the line on maintaining sanctions on Russia, which is far harder for them to do than us, when we are gutting our own policy in this way? How can we tell our French allies, in particular, that they should not sell Vladimir Putin amphibious assault ships, as we have, and then turn around and try to buy rocket engines from Putin's cronies? Again, this is the height of hypocrisy.
    Since March 2014, my colleagues and I in the in Senate have tried to do everything we can to give our friends in Ukraine the tools they need to defend themselves and their country from Russian aggression. Rather than furthering that noble cause, Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin have chosen to reward Vladimir Putin and his cronies with a windfall of hundreds of millions of dollars. A rocket factory in Alabama may benefit from this provision. Boeing, headquartered in Illinois, may benefit from this decision. But have no doubt, the real winners today are Vladimir Putin and his gang of thugs running the Russian military-industrial complex.
    I wish that Senators Shelby and Durbin would explain to the American taxpayer exactly who we are doing business with. They won't. But my colleagues need to know. So let me explain.
    At least one news organization has investigated how much the Air Force pays for these RD-180 rocket engines, how much the Russians receive, and whether members of the elite in Putin's Russia have secretly profited by inflating the price. In an investigative series entitled, "Comrade Capitalism", Reuters exposed the role that senior Russian politicians and Putin's close friends, including persons sanctioned over Ukraine, have played in a company called NPO Energomash, which manufactures the RD-180. According to Reuters, a Russian audit of that company found that it had been operating at a loss because funds were "being captured by unnamed offshore intermediary companies."
    In addition, the Reuters investigation also reported that NPO Energomash sells its rocket engines to ULA through another company called RD Amross, a tiny five-person outfit that stood to collect about $93 million in cost mark-ups under a multiyear deal to supply these engines. The Defense Contract Management Agency (DCMA) found that in one contract alone, RD Amross did "no or negligible" work but still collected $80 million in "unallowable excessive pass-through charges."
    According to University of Baltimore School of Law Professor Charles Tiefer, who reviewed Reuters' documents, "The bottom line is that the joint venture between the Russians and Americans is taking us to the cleaners." He said that he had reviewed Pentagon audits critical of Iraq War contracts, but those "didn't come anywhere near to how strongly negative" the RD Amross audit was.
    We must do better than this, and we can.
    Now some may say we need to buy rocket engines from Putin's cronies in Russia. In particular, they will cite a letter from the Department of Defense in response to a list of leading questions form the Appropriations Committee just a few days ago, which they will claim as confirmation that the Department believes that the United States will not have a domestically-manufactured replacement engine for defense space launches before 2022.
    Nonsense. When the Department of Defense starts making predictions beyond its five-year budget plan, what I hear is, "this isn't a priority". Or, "we don't really know." Either way, this is unacceptable. Both the authorizers and the appropriators have ramped-up funding for the development of a new domestically-manufactured engine. The Pentagon needs to do what it has failed to do for eight years: Make this a priority. Indeed, American companies have already said that they could have a replacement engine ready before 2022. Our money and attention should be focused on meeting this goal, not subsidizing Putin's defense industry.
    Proponents of more Russian rocket engines will also say cite claims by the Air Force that ULA needs a least 18 RD-180 engines to create a "bridge" between now and 2022 when a domestically-manufactured engine comes available.
    This, too, is false.
    Today, we have two space launch providers—ULA and SpaceX—that, no matter what happens with the Russian RD-180, will be able to provide fully redundant capabilities with ULA's Delta IV and SpaceX's Falcon 9, and eventually, the Falcon Heavy space launch vehicles. There will be no capability gap. The Atlas V is not going anywhere anytime soon. ULA has enough Atlas V's to get them through at least 2019, if not later.
    And, as I alluded to a moment ago, the Pentagon agrees that no action is required today to address a risk to assured access to space. In declining ULA's recent request for a waiver from the NDAA's restrictions, the Deputy Secretary of Defense concluded that they "do not believe any immediate action is required to address the future risk of having only one source of space launch services." Indeed, in its recent letter, the Department of Defense even confirmed that ULA has enough engines to compete for each of the nine upcoming competitions and that the number they will pursue is "dependent upon ULA's business management strategy."
    So to Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin, I would ask, what are your priorities?
    As we speak, Ukrainians are resisting Russian aggression and fighting to keep their country whole and free. Yet this omnibus appropriations bill will send hundreds of millions of dollars to Vladimir Putin, his cronies, and Russia's military-industrial base as Russia continues to occupy Crimea and destabilize Ukraine. What kind of message does that send to Ukrainians who have been fighting and dying to protect their country?
    How can we do this when Putin is menacing our NATO allies in Europe? How can we do this when Russia continues to send weapons to Iran? How can we do this when Putin continues to violate the 1987 Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty? How can we do this when Putin is bombing U.S.-backed forces in Syria fighting the murderous Assad regime?
    I understand that some constituents of Senator Shelby and Senator Durbin believe they would benefit from this provision. But as the New York Times editorial board stated earlier this year, "When sanctions are necessary, the countries that impose them must be willing to pay a cost, too. After leaning on France to cancel the sale of two ships to Russia because of the invasion of Ukraine, the United States can hardly insist on continuing to buy national security hardware from one of Mr. Putin's cronies." I repeat, that is the opinion of the New York Times.
    On the record, I make this promise. If this language undermining the National Defense Authorization Act is not removed from the Omnibus, I assure my colleagues that this issue will not go unaddressed in the Fiscal Year 2017 National Defense Authorization Act. Up to this point, we have sought to manage this issue on an annual basis, and we have always maintained that, if a genuine crisis emerged, we would not compromise our national security interests in space. We have sought to be flexible and open to new information, but if this is how our efforts are repaid, then perhaps we need to look at a complete and indefinite restriction on Putin's rocket engines.
    I take no pleasure in saying that. I believe that avoiding the year-over-year conflict over this matter between our authorizing and appropriations committees is in our nation's best interest. Such back-and-forth only delays our shared desire to end our reliance on Russian technology from our space launch supply chain, while injecting instability into our national security space launch program. That instability threatens the reliable launch of our most sensitive national security satellites and the stability of the fragile industrial base that supports them.
    But, I simply cannot allow Senator Shelby, Senator Durbin, the Appropriations Committee, or any other member of this body to craft a take-it-or-leave-it omnibus spending bill that allows a monopolistic corporation to do business with Russian oligarchs to buy overpriced rocket engines that fund Russia's belligerence in Crimea and Ukraine, its support for Assad in Syria, and its neo-imperial ambitions.
    I will not stand for that, and none of you should either.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Виктор Левашов от 16.12.2015 23:19:45
    этот орёл не ровён час дуба даст не сегодня - завтра, так пусть выговорится.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.12.2015 16:45:29
    http://spacenews.com/op-ed-u-s-must-not-recklessly-restrict-use-of-rd-180-engine/
    ЦитироватьOp-ed | U.S. Must Not Recklessly Restrict Use of RD-180 Engine
    by Sen. Richard Shelby (http://spacenews.com/author/sen-richard-shelby/) — December 16, 2015
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155375.jpg)
    A United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket, powered by the Russian RD-180 engine, launches a mission for the U.S. National Reconnaissance Office. Credit: ULA  
     
    At the end of the Cold War, U.S. military and intelligence leaders encouraged American aerospace companies to buy Russian rocket engines so that Russia would not sell them to countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea. Based on those policies, Lockheed Martin put the Russian-made RD-180 engine on the Atlas 5 rocket in 1995. In that era, the use of Russian rocket engines was a priority, not a political concern.
    Today, approximately two-thirds of our military, intelligence community, scientific and weather satellites are launched into orbit on the Atlas 5, which uses the Russian RD-180 rocket engine. United Launch Alliance, a joint venture of Lockheed and Boeing formed in 2006, has conducted more than 100 of these missions without a single failure, the vast majority with the Atlas 5.
    Given the current volatility of our relationship with Russia, our nation needs to develop a reliable, American alternative to the RD-180 as soon as possible. Unfortunately, that may not be for another four to five years at best.
    Congress has been debating whether we are willing to risk our military's ability to access space before we have a domestically produced engine that has the capabilities of the RD-180. Some have pushed highly restrictive legislative limits on importing the RD-180 — thus grounding the Atlas 5 that powers vital national security launches. I have heard directly fr om military leaders who say we will have a multiyear gap in access to space if we allow these provisions to take force. Given these concerns, it is far too risky to ban the use of the RD-180 before we have a reliable American alternative.
    I'm the first one to argue that we should not be dependent upon any foreign power for access to space — especially in the national security arena. I have already worked to secure more than $300 million in funding for the development of an American-made rocket engine. However, recklessly restricting the use of the RD-180 in the near-term will undermine both national security and the prospects for real competition in the military launch business.
    Let me be clear: I understand the legitimate congressional concerns regarding relying on the RD-180 for national security launches. That said, I believe that some in Congress have overreacted with ill-conceived legislation that would restrict the near-term use of these engines — ironically weakening our national security, according to Defense Secretary Ash Carter, Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James, Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Welsh, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, and many officials working for them.
    Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) pushed these restrictions in close coordination with SpaceX, which stands much to gain by eliminating competition. The SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket was recently certified for some of these launches by the Air Force, albeit under intense political pressure fr om the Obama administration. While SpaceX has launched several commercial payloads and has conducted six cargo flights to the International Space Station, it has suffered numerous delays and anomalies. Shortly after the Air Force's certification of the Falcon 9, a catastrophic failure in June led to the complete loss of both the vehicle and all of its taxpayer-funded cargo, thus grounding the vehicle. The company was already over two years late developing the Falcon 9 and now has a substantial backlog of its current launch schedule, which raises the question of what the launch priorities will be if it does resume flights.
    To foster such a monopoly through misguided political decisions would be a matter of considerable concern relating to national security. SpaceX has yet to undertake any form of national security launch. Yet without changes to the restrictions pushed by Senator McCain, virtually all of America's military space missions will depend on SpaceX's grounded rocket and its problematic launch history while the highly dependable Atlas 5 will be unavailable due to political motivations and maneuvering.
    Secretary Carter and Director Clapper recently told Congress that without the Atlas 5, "we could be faced with a multiyear gap wh ere we have neither assured access to space nor an environment wh ere price-based competition is possible." We simply could not and cannot allow this to happen.
    Clearly, the United States needs to move as quickly as possible to develop, build and certify a safe and affordable alternative to the RD-180. Until then, I'm pleased that Congress has provided the policy guidance and legal flexibility to assure that our military has access to space, and that taxpayers can count on fair and healthy competition.
    U.S. Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) is a senior member of the Senate Appropriations Committee.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 19.12.2015 01:32:30
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/news-press-details.aspx?id=295&title=United-Launch-Alliance-Concludes-Transformative-Year,-Looks-Ahead-to-10th-Anniversary
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Concludes Transformative Year, Looks Ahead to 10th Anniversary

    Centennial, Colo., (Dec. 18, 2015) – After another year with 100 percent mission success, the United Launch Alliance (ULA) team capped off the year with the launch of the OA-4 mission to the International Space Station (ISS) on Dec. 6 and prepares for its 10th anniversary and highest operations Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) tempo to date in 2016.  

    "What an incredible year for ULA," said Tory Bruno, president and CEO of ULA. "I couldn't be prouder to be a part of the best launch team in the world. I am so thankful to all of our employees and industry partners for their commitment to get the job done. I am also grateful for the support from all our families as we continue to push boundaries and get ready for next year!"

    In 2015, ULA flawlessly launched 12 missions from two coasts using the Delta II, Delta IV and Atlas V rockets in support of the U.S. Air Force, U.S. Navy, National Reconnaissance Office, NASA and multiple commercial customers. The company also celebrated exciting milestones – reaching 100 launches with the Oct. 2 Morelos-3 mission (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-launches-morelos-3.aspx) and completing ULA's first mission to the ISS (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-successfully-launches-oa4-cygnus.aspx), both on Atlas V vehicles.

    "These missions are so important for keeping our service members safe around the world, enhancing our GPS capabilities and enabling scientific research in space that will inspire the next generation of rocket scientists and astronauts," Bruno said.

    ULA also announced two new initiatives in 2015 that will transform the future of space lift. At the 31st Space Symposium in April, Bruno unveiled the Vulcan rocket (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-unveils-americas-new-rocket-vulcan.aspx), ULA's next-generation launch system, which will be the highest-performing, most cost-efficient rocket on the market.

    Additionally, Bruno announced ULA's Cubesat program in November (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-reveals-transformational-cubesat-launch.aspx), supporting science, technology, engineering and math (STEM) education and making space more accessible by offering universities the opportunity to compete for free rides to space on Atlas V rockets.

    "This initiative will not only make STEM rides free, frequent and predictable, but will potentially double the world's lifts for CubeSat," said Bruno.

    Over the course of the year, ULA was awarded three launch services contracts beating all commercial competitors for NASA's Tracking and Data Relay Satellite (TDRS-M) (http://www.ulalaunch.com/nasa-selects-ula-atlas-v-to-launch-tdrsm.aspx) and Solar Probe Plus (http://www.ulalaunch.com/nasa-selects-ula-for-solar-probe-plus.aspx) missions as well as the EchoStar XIX (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-congratulates-lockheed-martin-echostar.aspx) commercial mission.

    "Customers are selecting ULA's launch vehicles for competitively awarded missions due to our proven reliability and schedule certainty," said Bruno. "We launch when our customers are ready to launch."

    ULA also implemented new cost-savings initiatives in 2015. In coordination with the U.S. Air Force, ULA began conducting Offsite Vertical Integration (OVI) (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-and-the-us-air-force-work-together-ovi.aspx) of the Centaur upper stage for the Atlas V rocket reducing the time required between launches and mitigating the risk of weather-related processing delays.  

    In addition to OVI, ULA dramatically reduced costs of major supply chain items by 40-45 percent through strategic partnership initiatives with Orbital ATK (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-selects-orbital-atk-solid-boosters.aspx), Blue Origin (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-blue-origin-BE-4-production-agreement.aspx) and RUAG (http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-and-ruag-space-form-strategic-partnership.aspx) for solid rocket boosters, the BE-4 engine development and composites production capability which will bring jobs from oversees to the United States, respectively.

    "ULA will continue to find innovative ways to team with fellow industry experts because we absolutely must make space more affordable and accessible for our current and future customers," Bruno said.

    ULA will celebrate its 10th anniversary year with its highest operations EELV tempo to date, with 16 launches planned for 2016.

    "I cannot wait for another spectacular year of launches with ULA," Bruno said. "We are the nation's premier launch service provider because of our focus on mission success, unmatched reliability, schedule certainty and cost reduction for our customers. We will maintain that focus as we continue to transform the space launch industry in 2016. Congratulations and thank you again to all of our employees and families. I am truly humbled to work alongside you as we provide our nation with assured access to space."    

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 100 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com. Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 02.01.2016 12:09:01
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2015/12/30/russian-engine-purchase-adds-to-ulas-atlas-5-inventory/
    ЦитироватьRussian engine purchase adds to ULA's Atlas 5 inventory       
    Posted on December 30, 2015 by Stephen Clark (http://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154832.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154832.jpg)
    File photo of an Atlas 5 first stage with the dual-nozzle RD-180 engine. Credit: United Launch Alliance
     
    Freed fr om a legal restriction officials said limited its ability to compete for future U.S. military satellite launches, United Launch Alliance has ordered 20 new RD-180 engines from Russia that will keep the Atlas 5 rocket flying into the early 2020s.
    The new purchase of 20 RD-180 engines will serve ULA's existing and potential civil and commercial launch customers while the company supports development of a new U.S.-built engine to replace the Russian powerplant, which is used on the first stage of the company's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket, ULA said in a Dec. 23 statement.
    ULA placed the order with RD AMROSS, a Florida-based company that imports the RD-180 engines manufactured by NPO Energomash, a Moscow firm that makes engines for most Russian launch vehicles.
    "While ULA strongly believes now is the right time to move to an American engine solution for the future, it is also critical to ensure a smooth transition to that engine and to preserve healthy competition in the launch industry," ULA said in a statement.
    The agreement for 20 more RD-180 engines comes after ULA's purchase of 29 engines before Russia's annexation of Crimea in early 2014.
    Спойлер
    United Launch Alliance was the sole company eligible to compete for contracts to launch the Pentagon's most expensive space missions since the company's formation in 2006 with the merger of Boeing and Lockheed Martin's Delta and Atlas rocket programs.
    That changed last year with the Air Force's certification of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket to haul national security satellites into orbit. ULA remains the only contractor capable of delivering the military's heaviest spacecraft into orbit, until SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket goes through its own certification program, a milestone officials do not expect to be complete until 2017, assuming the triple-core rocket achieves three successful missions in time.
    Language ins erted in to the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act limited ULA's use of RD-180 engines for future U.S. military launch competitions with SpaceX, outlawing engines that were paid for after Feb. 1, 2014.
    Officials from ULA and the Air Force argued the limitation would unfairly inhibit the Atlas 5 rocket from competing head-to-head with SpaceX's Falcon 9 for lucrative military launch deals. ULA and Pentagon leaders wrangled with lawmakers for a year, attempting to carve out exemptions for at least some RD-180 engines to give the Atlas 5 access to the military contracts.
    A clause in a U.S. government spending bill signed into law earlier this month effectively removed the RD-180 engine ban, stating that the Air Force could award launch contracts to any company certified to fly the Pentagon's satellites, regardless of the country of origin of the rocket's engines.
    The lifting of the engine restriction was backed by Sen. Richard Shelby, a Republican of Alabama, wh ere ULA's rocket factory is located.
    The policy reversal did not come in time for ULA to submit a bid for the launch of a Global Positioning System satellite in November. ULA says it did not give a proposal to the Air Force because it did not have an RD-180 engine eligible to use for the mission, blaming legal restrictions in the defense authorization act.
    ULA chief executive Tory Bruno announced earlier this year his intention to retire the single-core medium-lift version of the Delta 4 rocket by 2018. While the Delta 4 uses U.S. engines, ULA admits it is more expensive than the Atlas 5 and not competitive the lower-priced Falcon 9.
    With the Falcon 9's certification, and the availability of the Atlas 5 now more clear, the Air Force has two rockets capable of launching many — but not all — of the military's satellites, keeping the Pentagon's long-standing policy of assured access to space.
    ULA said its purchase of more RD-180 engines does not affect its commitment to developing a new U.S. engine to take the place of the Russian powerplant in the future.
    "We are moving smartly with our engine partners, Blue Origin and our backup Aerojet Rocketdyne, but this type of development program is difficult and takes years to complete," ULA said in a statement. "Until then, this bridge contract will allow ULA to provide the reliable, affordable launch services our civil and commercial customers depend on from us while the new, American engine is being developed."
    Blue Origin and Aerojet Rocketdyne are working on the BE-4 and AR-1 engines, each generating about 500,000 pounds of thrust. Two of the engines would power the first stage of ULA's next-generation Vulcan launcher.
    Lawmakers appropriated $227 million in 2016 to speed up development of a new U.S. propulsion system, to be doled out in a series of research and development contracts. Blue Origin and Aerojet Rocketdyne say private funding has financed their BE-4 and AR-1 engine work to date.
    ULA says the Vulcan rocket should be ready for its first flight by the end of 2019, but it could take three more years to amass enough launches to be certified to carry U.S. military satellites.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 02.01.2016 12:13:10
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2016/01/02/2016-preview-united-launch-alliance/
    ЦитироватьAlliance's busy year ahead       
    Posted on January 2, 2016 by Justin Ray (http://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154867.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/2016.jpg)
    CAPE CANAVERAL — Some of America's most critical surveillance satellites, final members of other spacecraft series and a probe that will touch an asteroid are among 15 rocket flights planned by United Launch Alliance in 2016.
    It will be the 10th anniversary year for ULA, the launch firm that flies Atlas 5, Delta 4 and Delta 2 rockets from Cape Canaveral in Florida and Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
    A record-setting eleven Atlas 5 launches are slated to occur, nine from the Cape and two from Vandenberg. Four Delta 4 launches are planned, three from the Cape and one from Vandenberg. No Delta 2s will launch in 2016.
    The constellations of Block 2F series of Global Positioning System navigation satellites for the Air Force and the Navy's Mobile User Objective System communications spacecraft will be completed this year by Atlas 5 rocket launches.
    In addition to the Navy's mobile communications system, launches to bolster the Defense Department's Wideband Global SATCOM and Advanced Extremely High Frequency satellite networks are scheduled, too.
    There's also another commercial resupply mission to the International Space Station with the Cygnus ship planned.
    On the national security surveillance front, four launches of classified payloads for the National Reconnaissance Office, the next SBIRS Geosynchronous missile-warning satellite and the another pair of Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program, or GSSAP, spacecraft are manifested.
    The scientific highlight will be the launch of NASA's Origins-Spectral Interpretation-Resource Identification-Security-Regolith Explorer (OSIRIS-REx) spacecraft to rendezvous with an asteroid and return samples to Earth.
    The 100th Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle mission should come by the autumn, marking a major milestone for the program born of the Air Force's need for new rockets. Both vehicles debuted in 2002.
    In addition to the Orbital ATK Cygnus launch for the space station, two other commercial missions are slated to deliver the WorldView 4 imaging satellite and the EchoStar 19 broadband communications craft.
    Спойлер

    **UNITED LAUNCH ALLIANCE**
    current standings

    VEHICLE.....LAUNCHES
    Atlas 5.......52
    Delta 2.......28
    Delta 4.......23

    CUSTOMER
    Air Force...41
    NASA........25
    NRO.........20
    Commercial..17

    LAUNCH SITE
    Cape Canaveral...73
    Vandenberg AFB...30

    ULA successfully launched about 115,000 pounds of satellites and cargo into space in 2015, flying 12 times to deliver 16 spacecraft and 27 Cubesats for the Air Force, Navy, National Reconnaissance Office, NASA and commercial customers.
    "What an incredible year for ULA," said Tory Bruno, president and CEO of ULA. "These missions are so important for keeping our service members safe around the world, enhancing our GPS capabilities and enabling scientific research in space that will inspire the next generation of rocket scientists and astronauts.
    "I cannot wait for another spectacular year of launches with ULA," Bruno continued. "We are the nation's premier launch service provider because of our focus on mission success, unmatched reliability, schedule certainty and cost reduction for our customers."
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154880.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/av_oa4_n2123201533427AM63-2.jpg)
    Credit: ULA
     
    **2016 LAUNCH LINEUP**

    GPS 2F-12
     Atlas 5 (401)
     Cape Canaveral
     Feb. 3 (8:49-9:08 a.m. EST)
    The year begins by completing a generation of navigation satellite launches with GPS 2F-12, the final member of the Boeing-built Block 2F series for the Air Force.

    NROL-45
     Delta 4 Medium+(5,2)
     Vandenberg
     Feb. 10 (Period: 3-5 a.m. local)
    The National Reconnaissance Office, which operates the country's fleet of overhead surveillance spacecraft, has four missions planned in 2016.

    CYGNUS OA-6
     Atlas 5 (401)
     Cape Canaveral
     March 10 (approx. 3 a.m. EST)
    Another commercial cargo run to the International Space Station will launch 7,700 pounds of supplies, food and experiments aboard Orbital ATK's Cygnus freighter.  
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154870.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/23660365065_5dba266ce5_o.jpg)
    The most recent Cygnus arrived at the space station in December. Credit: NASA
     
    MUOS 5
     Atlas 5 (551)
     Cape Canaveral
     May 5
    The Mobile User Objective System satellite No. 5 finishes the Navy's constellation of communications spacecraft for warfighters on the move.

    NROL-37
     Delta 4-Heavy
     Cape Canaveral
     May 12
    America's heavy-lift rocket will launch a classified intelligence-gathering satellite for the nation, likely a complex delivery of the payload directly into geosynchronous orbit.

    NROL-61
     Atlas 5 (421)
     Cape Canaveral
     June 24
    Another hush-hush payload for the National Reconnaissance Office will be launched to ensure vigilance from above.

    AFSPC 6 (GSSAP)
     Delta 4 Medium+(4,2)
     Cape Canaveral
     July 21
    Under the name Air Force Space Command mission No. 6, a second pair of Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program, or GSSAP, satellites will be launched to monitor collision threats and nefarious activities in geosynchronous orbit for U.S. Strategic Command.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154864.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/150415-F-AS483-001.jpg)
    GSSAP artist rendering. Credit: Air Force
     
    SBIRS GEO 3
     Atlas 5 (401)
     Cape Canaveral
     July 27
    As one of the most vital satellites for the U.S., SBIRS GEO are infrared satellites in geosynchronous orbit that detect and provide early warning of enemy missile launches. Spacecraft No. 3 will join two sister-satellites covering Europe, Africa and the Indian Ocean.

    OSIRIS-REx
     Atlas 5 (411)
     Cape Canaveral
     Sept. 3
    NASA's OSIRIS-REx will launch to the near-Earth asteroid 101955 Bennu, extend a robotic arm to reach the asteroid's surface, capturing rocks and soil for return to Earth in September 2023 and a parachute-assisted touchdown.

    WORLDVIEW 4
     Atlas 5 (401)
     Vandenberg
     Sept. 15
    Presently slated to be the 100th EELV program launch, the commercial WorldView 4 Earth-imaging satellite will survey the globe in high resolution — 31-cm panchromatic resolution and 1.24-meter multi- spectral resolution — for operator DigitalGlobe.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154863.png) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154863.png)
    WorldView 4 concept. Credit: Lockheed Martin
     
    WGS 8
     Delta 4 Medium+(5,4)
     Cape Canaveral
     Sept. 28
    The Air Force's Wideband Global SATCOM fleet is the highest capacity Defense Department communications satellites that ring the planet, providing anytime, anywhere connectivity to troops, ships, drones and civilian leaders. WGS 8 is a $354 million satellite.

    GOES R
     Atlas 5 (541)
     Cape Canaveral
     Oct. 14
    Beginning a new era in weather forecasting for the United States, the Geostationary Operational Environmental Satellite R is the first of a new generation in meteorological spacecraft.

    ECHOSTAR 19
     Atlas 5 (431)
     Cape Canaveral
     Nov. 10
    The powerhouse EchoStar 19, also known as JUPITER 2, is a large, multi-spot beam Ka-band Internet-from-space communications satellite for HughesNet high-speed service in North America.

    NROL-79
     Atlas 5 (401)
     Vandenberg
     Dec. 1
    Launching a clandestine national security payload from America's western spaceport, the NROL-79 will be the fourth deployment flight this year for the National Reconnaissance Office.

    AEHF 4
     Atlas 5 (531)
     Cape Canaveral
     Dec. 15
    Joining three sister-satellites covering the Americas, Europe and Southeast Asia, the Advanced Extremely High Frequency spacecraft provide ultra-secure communications to link the president with military forces.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 03.01.2016 14:57:00
    Transportation Architecture for Cislunar Space (http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Commercial_Space/SSP_12_15_sowers.pdf)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 04.01.2016 08:51:24
    наркоманы в штабе!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 04.01.2016 12:07:26
    Вот так вот ты Альтаир в дверь, а он в окно :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.01.2016 11:21:55
    http://spacenews.com/mccain-schedules-hearing-on-russian-rocket-engines/

    ЦитироватьMcCain schedules hearing on Russian rocket engines

    WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), the chairman of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee, warned in December his committee would consider an "indefinite" ban on the Russian engine that powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket.

    Now, a little more than one month later, the full committee will hold a hearing Jan. 27 on "military space programs and the use of Russian-made rocket engines."

    Deborah Lee James, the secretary of the Air Force, and Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's acquisition czar, are scheduled to testify as witnesses.

    In December, a massive government-spending bill effectively lifted a ban, at least through Oct. 1, on the Russian RD-180 engine that powers the Atlas 5 rocket. As a response to Russia's 2014 incursion into Ukraine in 2014, Congress had outlawed future use of Russian engines for U.S. national security launches in the 2015 National Defense Authorization Act.

    The 2016 NDAA, however, provided limited relief from the ban, giving ULA access to four more engines for upcoming Air Force competitions. This came after the Denver-based launch services provider said it had assigned five engines that previously were deemed exempt from the ban to nonmilitary missions.

    McCain felt the spending bill undermined the work done by leaders of the House and Senate Armed Services committees to reach a compromise on the issue. In a blistering speech on the Senate floor in December, he said the Senate Armed Services Committee would consider "a complete and indefinite restriction on [Russian President Vladimir] Putin's rocket engines" as part of the NDAA for 2017.

    The committee also is likely to discuss the Air Force's plan to develop an American-made rocket engine. On Jan. 13, the U.S. Air Force said it would invest up to $241 million in rocket propulsion systems Orbital ATK and SpaceX pitched as a way to end Air Force dependence on Russian engines. The service has said it could award additional contracts in the coming weeks.

    At the same time, the service has awarded seven research contracts worth about $17 million to study various next-generation rocket technologies.
    Вы будете смеяться, но Маккейн опять собрался запретить РД-180. В гневной речи он заявил что комитет рассмотрит "полный и неограниченный запрет на ракетные двигатели Путина"! В качестве свидетеля вызывается "царь закупок Пентагона". :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 22.01.2016 09:33:19
    зря про батут шутили, ох зря
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 22.01.2016 12:59:29
    На чем тогда CST запускать?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 22.01.2016 12:02:42
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

    На чем тогда CST запускать?
    На "конкуренте" - на F9
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 22.01.2016 13:03:53
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

    На чем тогда CST запускать?
    На "конкуренте" - на F9
    На чем тогда Дракошу запускать??
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 22.01.2016 13:09:19
    намек что один РН не хорошо?... DC тоже на Атласе
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 22.01.2016 12:35:02
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

    ЦитироватьДмитрий В.   пишет:
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

    На чем тогда CST запускать?
    На "конкуренте" - на F9
    На чем тогда Дракошу запускать??
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 22.01.2016 13:46:50
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    А захочет ли? :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.01.2016 14:38:10
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:
    На чем тогда CST запускать?
    Это мелочи. Его дело стратегия. :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 22.01.2016 13:42:37
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:

    ЦитироватьДмитрий В.   пишет:
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    А захочет ли?
    Откажется от заказа NASA?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 22.01.2016 14:53:45
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    А захочет ли?
    Откажется от заказа NASA?
    Скажет "Надо запустить 2 корабля? Запустим 2 Дракона!"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 22.01.2016 11:59:52
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:
    к быстро ставить новый двигатель хорошо видно на примере Антареса. Есл
    а МакКейн вроде в оборонном комитете, ему на МКС пофигу :) пусть наса думает, где тогда деньги на дельту брать
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 22.01.2016 18:47:09
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    Еще надо приплюсовать грузовые запуски к МКС по контракту.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: АниКей от 30.01.2016 18:32:35
    Полёт на русофобской «тяге»                                           Откажутся ли США от использования «двигателей агрессора» РД-180 для своих ракет?                                                                 
                                                     
                                
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/196789.jpg) (http://svpressa.ru/authors/334/)
                               Василий Ваньков (http://svpressa.ru/authors/334/)                                                                                                                                        
                             
                                 0 (http://svpressa.ru/economy/article/141290/#mc-container)                                                        
     126
                                   
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                                                                                                                                                                                                 (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/196777.jpg)                                                                                                              
                                   Джон Маккейн (Фото: AP/ ТАСС)                                                          
                                                        
                                                   
                                                   
                 
    Скандально известный сенатор Джон Маккейн вместе со своим однопартийцем Кевином Маккарти внесли на рассмотрение верхней палаты Конгресса США законопроект, запрещающий импорт в США ракетных двигателей РД-180 российского производства.
    Одиозный американский «ястреб», наживший себе целое политическое состояние на эксплуатации антироссийских фобий времён «холодной войны», назвал свой проект «существенно важным, чтобы удостовериться, что США не зависят от режима Владимира Путина для гарантированного доступа в космос». «С моральной точки зрения возмутительно, а со стратегической — просто глупо просить американских налогоплательщиков субсидировать российский военно-промышленный комплекс», — добавил Маккейн.
    Следует отметить, что дискуссия по поводу целесообразности приобретения российских «движков» идёт в американских политических кругах с момента введения секторальных санкций против России летом 2014 года. Дело в том, что РД-180 используется в качестве первой ступени американских ракет Atlas, и пока промышленность США не производит аналогов. По подсчётам экспертов Пентагона отказ от них обойдется Штатам в $ 3 млрд. До сих пор попытки неоконов поставить американские космические корабли «на прикол», руководствуясь стремлением «насолить» России, не увенчались успехом.
    После начала военного конфликта на Украине Конгресс даже запретил использование в США РД-180 до 2019 года и выделил $ 220 млн. на разработку американских аналогов. Однако вскоре своё веское слово сказали представители Пентагона. Поскольку, в таком случае, под срывом оказалась бы оборонная программа ведомства. В апреле 2015 года министр военно-воздушных сил США Дебора Ли Джеймс призвала американских сенаторов смягчить санкции против России.
    Указав на то, что с помощью российских РД-180 на орбиту выводится масса ценного антироссийского груза, например, спутники-шпионы. Если же отказаться от услуг «НПО Энергомаш», которое производит двигатели, американцы справятся с программой космического импортозамещения не ранее, чем через 8−9 лет.
    Трудно сказать, чем закончится очередной антироссийский демарш Джона Маккейна, учитывая, что его коллеги по партии контролируют обе палаты Конгресса США. Вполне возможно, что здравый смысл одержит верх над желанием отдельных представителей республиканского большинства попиариться за счёт ухудшения отношений с Россией в предвыборный период. Всё-таки, как мы могли убедиться ещё год назад, Пентагон имеет сильное лобби в парламенте США.
    Представители неоконсервативного крыла в американском истеблишменте не в первый раз поднимают этот вопрос, указывает действительный академический советник Академии инженерных наук РФ Юрий Зайцев.
    — Предположение, что наши производители могут неожиданно разорвать контракт и отказаться от поставок двигателей в США, я исключаю практически на 100%. Потому что российская сторона напрямую заинтересована в том, чтобы получать «живые деньги» в условиях сокращения бюджетных ассигнований. В сложившихся реалиях было бы странно, если бы «Роскосмос» отказался от идеи полностью загрузить заказами химкинское «НПО «Энергомаш».
    Агентство NASA также заинтересовано в приобретении «русского движка». Американские производители даже конкурируют за возможность приобрести РД-180. А замминистра обороны США Фрэнк Кендалл выразил сомнения в том, что при запрете на приобретение российских двигателей консорциум United Launch Alliance, созданный компаниями Boeing и Lockheed Martin, вообще, сможет выжить.
    «СП»: — Каким образом, одна из двух великих космических держав оказалась в технологической зависимости от РФ?
    — У американцев есть альтернатива ракетам-носителям Atlas V, на которых стоят российские двигатели. Например, РН Delta IV. Но она обходится намного дороже, чем Atlas или ракета Falcon 9, предлагаемая конкурентами из компании SpaceX.
    Я не исключаю, что заявление г-на Маккейна это не просто очередной антироссийский демарш. Возможно, он связан с недобросовестной конкуренцией между представителями авиакосмической отрасли США. Очевидно, что если компаниям вроде SpaceX удастся выдавить с помощью административных рычагов российскую продукцию с американского рынка, они получат необоснованные преимущества.
    Думаю, в ближайшие 5−7 лет наши американские партнёры не смогут создать конкурентоспособный двигатель.
    «СП»: — Но ведь РН Saturn V, которая рассматривается отраслевыми экспертами как непревзойдённое достижение человеческой мысли в том, что касается ракетной техники, была создана ещё в 1960 гг.
    — Никто не спорит, ракета-носитель, с помощью которой была реализована лунная программа США, до сих пор остаётся самой грузоподъемной и наиболее мощной. Но для доставки на орбиту Земли полезных грузов такая мощность избыточна. Американцы покупают у нас ещё двигатель НК-33, разработанный СНТК им. Н.Д. Кузнецова (используется на РН Antares). Он был создан для 1-й ступени ракеты-носителя сверхтяжёлого класса Н-1.
    «СП»: — В последние годы американские разработчики делают упор на создании частично многоразовых ракет-носителей вроде Falcon 9 с возвращаемой первой ступенью. Нет ли опасности, что наша космическая отрасль «проспит» назревающую технологическую революцию?
    — У нас тоже были подобные задумки. Но рассчёты показали, что это не самое перспективное направление. Подобные РН с возвращаемой первой ступенью теряют 30% полезной нагрузки, которую выводят на орбиту. Поскольку в них должно быть достаточно топлива для возвращения и мягкой посадки.
    Кроме того, если ракета поднялась на высоту 80−90 км., она в любом случае станет менее надёжной. Потребуются дополнительные проверки и испытания. Китайцы пошли по другому пути — они пытаются создать аппарат типа американского Shuttle или нашего «Бурана». А возвращаемую ракету создать можно, но нецелесообразно. Особенно, если речь идёт о второй или третьей ступени.
    «СП»: — NASA и ESA за последнее время достаточно далеко шагнули в освоении дальнего космоса. Из «свежего» можно вспомнить посадку аппарата «Филы» на комету, марсианскую программу «Curiosity». В то время как Россия, похоже, «прописалась» на орбите. Не «пересидеть» бы...
    — Проблема существует — бюджет Федеральной космической программы урезали с 2 триллионов до 1,4 триллионов рублей. Будут ли ещё сокращения, неизвестно.
    «СП»: — Аудиторы из Счётной палаты обнаружили, что часть средств, выделенных госкорпорации «Роскосмос», не была использована.
    — Отчасти это связано со структурной реорганизацией нашей космической отрасли, которая была проведена в прошлом году. Плюс возникли проблемы с поиском замены нашим бывшим украинским подрядчикам, кооперационное взаимодействие с которыми было приостановлено по известным причинам политического свойства.
    Также, насколько мне известно, часть авансовых платежей «зависла» на счетах подрядных организаций. Я считаю, что эти средства нужно возвращать в бюджет, и проводить новые тендеры. Макроэкономическая ситуация изменилась, так что не факт, что работы могут быть выполнены на прежних условиях.
    Если вернуться к теме освоения дальнего космоса, то пилотируемая миссия на Луну раньше 2035 года не планируется. Это затратный проект. И, вообще, не понятно, какую отдачу, кроме сугубо имиджевой, он принесёт. Другой пример — потратить десятки миллиардов на создание пилотируемого корабля на Марс. Полёт на «красную планету» займёт больше полугода. Как говорится, прилетели, сели, улетели. При этом нет никакой гарантии, что люди смогут вернуться на Землю. Думаю, это произойдёт не раньше конца столетия.
    «СП»: — Какие направления, тогда, представляются вам более перспективными?
    — Наиболее рационально изучать объекты дальнего космоса с помощью автоматических станций. Они дают гораздо больше информации, чем пилотируемые полёты. На Луне для изучения выбран перспективный район на южном полюсе, где можно добывать воду и создавать научную станцию. В 2012 года «Роскосмос» и Европейское космическое агентство договорились о совместной реализации проекта «ExoMars». В ходе которого будет отработана технология посадки большегрузных аппаратов на поверхность Марса. Институт космических исследований РАН будет разрабатывать научные приборы для этого проекта. Пока нужны марсианские автоматы. Поэтому вопрос о создании новой орбитальной станции переносится на более отдалённую временную перспективу.
    Функционирование МКС решено продлить до 2024 года. Я считаю, что этого вполне достаточно. В любом полёте основная масса полезной нагрузки уходит на поддержание жизнедеятельности космонавтов. Вспомните, Севастьянов и Николаев летали «всего» (по современным меркам) 17 суток, после чего вернулись на Землю едва живыми. В то время не было средств поддержания жизнеспособности организма в условиях невесомости, тренажёров и т. д. Сегодня рекордный срок пребывания на орбите составляет уже 878 суток, благодаря пневмовакуумным костюмам «Чибис» и прочей технике, которая минимизирует нагрузку на организм.
    По мнению вице-президента Федерации космонавтики России Олега Мухина, американские менеджеры хорошо умеют считать деньги.
    — Так что, позиция «сбитого американского лётчика» во Вьетнаме, который «прославился» своими нелестными высказываниями в адрес России, скажем так, нерепрезентативна. Когда есть недорогой проверенный двигатель, глупо отказываться от его использования.
    У американских производителей нет собственных разработок такого рода. Поэтому им выгоднее приобретать комплектующие у России. Конечно, в принципе они могут создать нечто похожее. Но только, зачем? К тому же сегодня американские компании переключились на проекты ракет-носителей с возвращаемой первой ступенью. Вертикальная посадка в таком случае это один способов.
    «СП»: — И всё-таки вернуть вторую ступень (не говоря уже о третьей), по-прежнему, нереально? Тогда зачем принципиально заниматься этой проблемой?
    — У Falcon 9 две ступени. Последняя может вернуться с орбиты только в режиме пылающего метеора...
    «СП»: — А какие ещё могут быть варианты?
    — Спустить на парашюте или оснастить ступень выдвижными крыльями. В России тоже есть частные предприниматели, которые работают над этим вопросом.
    «СП»: — А почему бы не реанимировать проект корабля многоразового использования вроде «Бурана»?
    — Это уже пройденный этап, в отличие от создания ракеты-носителя многоразового использования. Центральный блок активно эксплуатируемого корабля «Союз», в котором находятся космонавты, также возвращается на Землю.
    «СП»: — У российской космонавтики есть уязвимые места в плане обеспечения технологической безопасности?
    — Навскидку, даже трудно сказать.
    «СП»: — А как же наша старая «ахиллесова пята» — компонентная база, электронная начинка, производство средств производства, т.е. высокоточных станков и оборудования? Здесь импортозамещение уже состоялось?
    — Когда мы запускали «Восток-1» с Юрием Алексеевичем Гагариным на борту, космические корабли серии «Союз» были полностью нашего производства.
    «СП»: — Неужели с тех пор ничего не изменилось, учитывая достигнутый (даже в годы «холодной войны») уровень международной технологической кооперации в авиакосмической промышленности?
    — Трудно отрицать этот факт, но тогда уместнее говорить о взаимозависимости. В серьёзных глобальных проектах по покорению космоса без международного сотрудничества не обойтись. Как бы не желал обратного г-н Маккейн. В то же время распространение технологий позволяет многим странам выводить свои спутники и космические аппараты в космос самостоятельно, используя отечественную ракетную технику. Но кооперироваться дешевле и эффективнее.
    «СП»: — В чём смысл затеянной в прошлом году структурной перестройки в авиакосмической отрасли РФ?
    — Напомню, после упразднения Федерального космического агентства была создана госкорпорация «Роскосмос». Она образована на базе Объединенной ракетно-космической корпорации (ОРКК) и Федерального космического агентства. В своё время в ОРКК вошли все предприятия отрасли, а под контролем агентства остались отраслевые научные институты и организации наземной инфраструктуры.
    Единая структура позволит повысить ответственность и координацию между наукой и производством. Без космонавтики невозможно обеспечить национальную безопасность страны. Не случайно были созданы Военно-космические силы России, которые продемонстрировали свои возможности в Сирии. Когда спутниковая группировка позволяет ударной авиации «работать» по наземным целям с помощью системы приема спутниковых сигналов и координат.
    [свернуть]
     http://svpressa.ru/economy/article/141290/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 18.02.2016 17:33:49
    https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158132.jpg:large
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158132.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 18.02.2016 17:39:10
    https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158130.jpg:large
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158130.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.02.2016 01:28:20
    http://spacenews.com/one-of-several-u-s-senators-moscow-barred-from-russia-in-retaliation-for-the-2014-sanctions/
    "Эта музыка будет вечной, если я заменю батарейки"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.02.2016 01:36:12
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    На нем же. По 2 пуска в год каждого корабля Маск осилит.
    Учитывая CRS2, добавится ещё два.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 20.02.2016 13:57:17
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    http://spacenews.com/one-of-several-u-s-senators-moscow-barred-from-russia-in-retaliation-for-the-2014-sanctions/
    "Эта музыка будет вечной, если я заменю батарейки"
    Скорее до тех пор пока Тори не выйдет и не скажет что-нибудь вроде: "Первый пуск Вулкана назначен на 31.12.2019"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 20.02.2016 17:42:16
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    http://spacenews.com/one-of-several-u-s-senators-moscow-barred-from-russia-in-retaliation-for-the-2014-sanctions/
    "Эта музыка будет вечной, если я заменю батарейки"
    - спасибо, там ниже ссылка на Джерри Грея, любопытная ( если все уже видели , виноват):
    ЦитироватьOp-ed | We Do Need Russian Rockets, for a While Longer
    by Jerry Grey — December 23, 2015
     
     

     
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155572.jpg)A United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket — powered by the Russian RD-180 engine — lifts off from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida, carrying Orbital ATK's Cygnus cargo tug on a commercial resupply mission to the International Space Station. Credit: ULA

    It's not easy to contradict Congress, but its legislation to bar the use of the Russian RD-180 rocket engine from launching U.S. security payloads, as Robert Bunn so eloquently points out (http://spacenews.com/op-ed-space-trade-and-russian-rockets/), is truly a classic example of shooting oneself in the foot. The relatively minuscule economic benefit Russia gains from the sale of these engines is dwarfed by the loss their eradication created in operational capability of U.S. security systems.
    It was on my recommendation to Michael Wynne, then president of the General Dynamics Space Systems Division (GDSSD), that he issued the purchase order to NPO Energomash to develop the RD-180 for the Atlas launcher, designed and then operated by GDSSD. My recommendation was based on the fact that there was then (over 20 years ago!) no U.S. engine of comparable quality, performance, cost and reliability. By the way, there still isn't.
    Note that at that time, in 1992, the RD-180 did not exist. My recommendation was to convert the 1.7-million-pound-thrust, four-chamber RD-170, the well-proven boost engine for the Soviet Energia launcher, into a half-scale (850,000-pound-thrust) two-chamber engine that used all the same proven elements of the RD-170.
    Here is a quote from my recommendation (I was then a member of the GDSSD Executive Advisory Board):
    "The 2-chamber version [of the RD-170] could be derated by 20% and still deliver more thrust than you need for all Atlas configurations, including 2AS [the solid-propellant-boosted version of Atlas, then its highest-thrust configuration]. The extra thrust margin of the derated two-chamber configuration would be extremely useful in allowing simplification of other Atlas systems. It also provides for evolutionary payload growth via incremental upgrades to full rated thrust. ... Because the two-chamber RD-170 engine provides more-than-adequate thrust at little or no additional cost, operating derated significantly increases its reliability, with attendant economic benefits to Atlas. ...
    "The next step would be for you ... to write up a set of specifications for the propulsion system and solicit a proposal from Energomash to perform and deliver a preliminary design study which meets those specifications. The study should of course include the specifications, schedule, and cost of the development effort needed to deliver a flight-qualified engine to GDSSD, as well as production-phase data such as delivered engine prices, reliability information, performance and schedule guarantees, and details of the Atlas interface modifications GDSSD would need to provide. ...
    "I believe, incidentally, that the [then-current] political barriers to hardware transactions will fall (or at least be substantially weakened) within the next year."

    The contract with Energomash was subsequently fulfilled, and when GDSSD later merged into Martin Marietta and then into Lockheed Martin, the RD-180 was integrated into the experimental Atlas 2AR ("R" for Russian), which evolved into the Atlas 3 and then into today's Atlas 5, which has now flown 59 times with 100 percent success. Wynne, who later became secretary of the Air Force, has often cited the RD-180 decision as the best one he made during his tenure at GDSSD.
    Meanwhile, however, the U.S. Air Force had expressed concern over reliance on a Russian engine for its national security payload launches, so Energomash and (then) Pratt & Whitney created a joint venture, Amross, to develop and manufacture a U.S. version of the RD-180 (and meanwhile to serve as the contracting agent for RD-180 purchases from Energomash). I had then worked as a consultant to Pratt & Whitney on that "U.S. RD-180" effort, which never succeeded due primarily to the paucity of funding from the Air Force, exacerbated by what appeared to be irreconcilable differences in Russian and U.S. shop practices and materials specifications.
    So what is arguably the best heavy-lift liquid-propellant rocket engine in the world today continues to be manufactured exclusively in Russia.
    There's an interesting sidebar to the argument that the United States can and should develop such an engine, one that would be comparable to (or better than) the RD-180. When Orbital ATK suffered an engine failure on its Antares launch vehicle loss in October 2014, its intensive search for a replacement came up with the RD-181, another Russian engine (closely related to the RD-180) as the best choice. Moreover, the company's interim launch choice for the Cygnus capsule, until the RD-181 could be integrated into the Antares launcher, was the Atlas 5 — powered by the Russian RD-180. And Orbital ATK has a well-deserved reputation as a very technically savvy company.
    I do agree with Mr. Bunn that the United States should devote maximum effort to the development of an indigenous heavy-lift rocket engine comparable to the RD-180. Despite the still-smooth coordination with Russia on the International Space Station and the successful post-shuttle use of Russian Soyuz vehicles to transport crew and supplies to the station, Congress' concern about reliance on Russia following its invasion of Crimea is certainly justified. But the development, integration and reliability demonstration of a new large U.S. liquid-propellant rocket engine cannot be accomplished for years to come. Therefore, Congress should recognize, as Mr. Bunn has so clearly stated, that until that happens, U.S. economics and national security require us to continue using the best large rocket engine in the world — the Russian RD-180.
    Jerry Grey was a member of the General Dynamics Space Systems Division Executive Advisory Board when the RD-180 was created. He was a professor of aerospace engineering at Princeton University, director of science and technology policy at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, and president of the International Astronautical Federation. He is an honorary fellow of the AIAA and a fellow of Great Britain's Royal Aeronautical Society.





    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Liss от 23.02.2016 15:28:20
    "Во дают!"  (с)

    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201602200306-ed8p.htm

    Цитировать20 февраля 2016, 03:06
    Без российских ракетных двигателей космическую отрасль США ждет крах - Пентагон

    Пентагон просит конгресс США не отказываться от закупки российских двигателей РД-180. В случае отказа США придется переделывать всю систему конструирования ракет. Об этом сообщает ТАСС со ссылкой на заявление генерал-лейтенанта ВВС Сэмюела Грейвса.
     
    По словам Грейвса, если США откажутся закупать российские  двигатели, стране придется вернуться назад на несколько десятков лет и возрождать конструирование ракет.
     
    «Экстремальный для нас вариант – это если нам придется просто менять двигатели. Нужно будет смотреть, какова их совместимость не только с первой, но и со второй ступенью ракет», – заявил он.
     
    Также он заявил, что американские ракеты просто останутся на Земле, если российские двигатели не будут закуплены в дальнейшем. И это, по словам эксперта, экстремальный для США вариант.
     
    Ранее сообщалось, что глава комитета по делам вооруженных сил в сенате США Джон Маккейн предложил прекратить закупку российских двигателей для ракет.
    Смотрим первоисточники...

    http://newsdaily.com/2016/02/shift-in-u-s-sanctions-could-ground-russian-rocket-engines-general/
    http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/tech/2016/02/20/air-force-move-off-russian-engines-general-says/80617948/
    http://spacenews.com/one-of-several-u-s-senators-moscow-barred-from-russia-in-retaliation-for-the-2014-sanctions/
    http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2091

    Никакого краха, и если коротко, то данная 34-я серия мерлезонского балета под названием "РД-180" сводится к следующему.

    Наш добрый друг сенатор МакКейн сделал официальный запрос о возможности закупок и использования РД-180 под предлогом реорганизации Роскосмоса и вхождением санкционных Рогозина и Чемезова в руководство новой госкорпорации.

    Генерал-лейтенант Гривз от лица заказчика военных космических систем по этому случаю заявил, что да, если на запрос МакКейна Казначейство официально признает РД-180 санкционным товаром, то МО и ВВС США немедленно прекратят его использование и нарушат закон не будут. А значит, будут запускать КА в интересах национальной безопасности на ракетах Delta IV (чисто американской, но значительно более дорогой) и Falcon-9 (чисто американской, но менее надежной и с меньшей грузоподъемностью).

    Он также напомнил, что заменить РД-180 на американский двигатель -- это существенная, продолжительная и дорогостоящая модернизация. ВВС предполагали провести ее в срок до 2022-2023 гг., параллельно продолжая запускать Atlas V с РД-180, но если правительство готово нести расходы на импортозамещение прямо сейчас, то се ля ви.

    Из закавыченных и пересказанных цитат в оригинальном сообщении одна ( "просто останутся на земле" ) вырвана из контекста, одна ( "нужно будет смотреть, какова их совместимость" ) в принципе корректна, но на английском я ее не нашел, и одна ( "придется вернуться назад на несколько десятков лет" ) в англоязычных сообщениях не обнаруживается и представляет собой феерический бред.

    Тупая пропаганда подрывает доверие к ее источнику :-(
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.02.2016 15:41:02
    ЦитироватьLiss пишет:
    Тупая пропаганда подрывает доверие к ее источнику :-(
    А оно когда-то было?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 23.02.2016 16:37:56
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Скорее до тех пор пока Тори не выйдет и не скажет что-нибудь вроде: "Первый пуск Вулкана назначен на 31.12.2019"
    А сертификацию после первого пуска сразу проведут? Тори это понимает, а Маккейн с сотоварищами?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.02.2016 16:48:22
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Скорее до тех пор пока Тори не выйдет и не скажет что-нибудь вроде: "Первый пуск Вулкана назначен на 31.12.2019"
    А сертификацию после первого пуска сразу проведут? Тори это понимает, а Маккейн с сотоварищами?
    Речь не о том что с 2020 все пуски переведут на Вулкан, а о том что ULA никому ничего не обещает. Может сделают Вулкан, а может нет. А официально объявить, что Вулкан точно полетит (и когда полетит) они не смогут как минимум до конца этого года, а может и до конца следующего, когда будут уверены в BE-4. Как только они это сделают от них отстанут. ИМХО.

    "Еж птица гордая - пока не пнешь не полетит"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 23.02.2016 17:40:04
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    ЦитироватьLiss пишет:
    Тупая пропаганда подрывает доверие к ее источнику :-(
    А оно когда-то было?
    особенно к указанному после их более ранних косяков
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 01.03.2016 02:10:33
    http://spacenews.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-ula-win-air-force-propulsion-contracts/
    ЦитироватьAerojet Rocketdyne, ULA win Air Force propulsion contracts
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — February 29, 2016
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155484.jpg)
    ULA ultimately plans to replace the Atlas 5 with the Vulcan, but envisions at least a couple of years of overlapping operations between the two vehicles. Credit: ULA
     
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Air Force will invest up to $536 million in Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 rocket engine and as much as $202 million in United Launch Alliance's next-generation Vulcan rocket as a way to end dependence on the Russian rocket engine used to launch most U.S. national security payloads, according to a  Feb. 29 announcement from the Pentagon.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne will use the money to help develop its AR1 engine. ULA will use the money to develop a prototype of its Vulcan launch vehicle with the BE-4 engine and to work on its next-generation upper stage engine known as the Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage, or ACES.
    The contracts are among the Air Force's top space acquisition priorities for 2016.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne is developing an engine dubbed the AR1 that, like the Russian RD-180 that powers ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, is fueled by liquid oxygen and kerosene. The Air Force awarded Aerojet Rocketdyne a $115 million contract on Feb. 29 to develop the engine for ULA's Vulcan rocket, but said with all options the potential government investment could reach $536 million. Aerojet Rocketdyne could contribute as much as $268 million to the program.
    "AR1 will return the United States to the forefront of kerosene rocket propulsion technology," Eileen Drake, Aerojet Rocketdyne's chief executive officer, said in a press release. "We are incorporating the latest advances in modern manufacturing, while capitalizing on our rich knowledge of rocket engines to produce a new, state-of-the-art engine that will end our reliance on a foreign supplier to launch our nation's national security assets."
    Aerojet executives say they plan to test the first AR1 development engine in 2017, followed by additional testing in 2018 and to provide a certified engine in 2019.
    However, ULA announced in September 2014 that its first choice for a new engine for its Vulcan rocket is the BE-4, a liquid-natural-gas fueled engine that cannot be used on the Atlas 5 as currently designed. Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, owned by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, is developing that engine using its own funds.
    The Air Force also awarded ULA a $46 million contract on Feb. 29 to develop the upper stage engine and a prototype of the Vulcan rocket using the BE-4. With all options the potential government investment could reach $202 million. ULA, a joint venture between Boeing and Lockheed Martin, could contribute as much as $134 million.
    ULA has said the Vulcan could be certified for national security launches around 2022 and that the ACES upper stage engine could fly as early as 2023. Last year, ULA officials said an ACES-equipped Vulcan, augmented by strap-on boosters, would have 30 percent more lift capacity than the Delta 4 Heavy, currently the largest vehicle in the U.S. fleet.
    ULA has a contract with Aerojet to retain the AR1 as a backup in case the BE-4 effort falters. ULA is expected to choose which engine it will develop for Vulcan late this year.
    Спойлер
    When the Air Force solicited proposals in June, it said it intended to award a total of $160 million to fund work on both main- and upper-stage rocket engines. Industry would be required to cover at least one-third of the costs of their proposed development efforts, but the actual size of the government investment would vary from proposal to proposal.
    On Jan. 13 the service announced the first of the awards and said it would invest at least $46.9 million and perhaps as much as $180 million, to develop three technologies for a new rocket from Orbital ATK.   In addition, SpaceX received at least $33.6 million, and perhaps as much as $61 million, to continue development of its reusable methane-fueled Raptor engine.
    In light of the Crimean crisis of 2014, Congress has directed the Defense Department to develop a domestic propulsion systems that would enable the Air Force by 2019 to end its reliance on RD-180.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 16.03.2016 23:04:19
    http://spacenews.com/ula-intends-to-lower-its-costs-and-raise-its-cool-to-compete-with-spacex/
    ЦитироватьULA intends to lower its costs, and raise its cool, to compete with SpaceX
    by Peter B. de Selding (http://spacenews.com/author/peter-b-de-selding/) — March 16, 2016
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155606.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance's future Vulcan rocket is designed to compete with SpaceX's Falcon vehicle for U.S. government business. It also may improve ULA's pizzazz quotient relative to SpaceX -- a useful advantage in hiring. Credit: ULA
     
    PARIS — A senior United Launch Alliance official on March 15 gave a candid assessment of his company's attempt to reinvent itself at a time when competitor SpaceX has almost single-handedly caused a rebirth of the cool in U.S. rocketry that has all but bypassed ULA.
    In a presentation by turns admiring and resentful of SpaceX – not the first time a ULA official has expressed these sentiments — ULA Engineering Vice President Brett Tobey said his company accepts the fact that SpaceX has forced the U.S. government, and thus ULA, to change the way rockets are made and sold.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155601.jpg) (http://spacenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Brett_Tobey_ULA.jpg)
    Brett Tobey, ULA's vice president of engineering. Credit: ULA

    It still views SpaceX's Falcon 9 reusability design – returning the full first stage – as "dumb" given the huge amount of fuel needed to bring the stage back. ULA's plan for its future Vulcan rocket is to separate the Vulcan's main-stage engines, cover them in a package that deploys a parachute and then scoop them up in midair with a helicopter.
    Addressing a University of Colorado-Boulder audience, Tobey began by recalling the history of ULA, created in 2006 after the U.S. government concluded that neither of ULA's parent companies, Lockheed Martin and Boeing, could survive on its on as a launch-service provider.
    A de facto monopoly was born with U.S. government blessing and with a series of lucrative U.S. government contracts whose principal goal was reliability and capability, not value for money.
    It included an annual $1 billion EELV Launch Capability contract, since reduced to $800 million per year, that lards on more cost, but also provides maximum flexibility to U.S. government customers.
    "If they say jump, we basically say, 'How high?' under this capability contract," Tobey said.
    Life was good for a time. ULA got the government business, which was all it needed. The company never much bothered with the highly price-competitive commercial launch market – a roller-coaster ride that Boeing had badly overestimated, in part causing the formation of ULA.
    The company has posted a 100 percent launch success record – 105 missions including classified payloads valued in the range of $1 billion.
    "Then along came [SpaceX founder and Chief Executive] Elon Musk, who changed the game completely," Tobey said.
    Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket is a design-to-cost vehicle with some launches priced at $60 million. Even with the supplemental requirements that SpaceX has said can add 30 percent to the cost of a U.S. Air Force mission, Falcon 9 is far less expensive than ULA's workhorse, the Atlas 5 rocket.
    "On our best day you'll see us at bid at about $125 million," Tobey said. Adding in the Capabilities contract monies and the price climbs to $200 million.
    With SpaceX making the rounds in Congress and even suing the U.S. Air Force to open its rocket competitions, ULA's days under its current structure were numbered – 100 percent success over 105 straight missions notwithstanding.
    "The government cannot afford this right now," Tobey said of ULA's current cost structure. "SpaceX will take them to court if they [the U.S. military] don't demonstrate the ability to allow competition.... Now we're going to have to figure out how to bid these things at a much lower cost."
    Unless the U.S. Air Force decides to end it early, the Capabilities contract expires in 2019. Tobey conceded that the likelihood of its being renewed "is exactly zero. So we have to be ready, in 2020, to roll up the cost of all that work and not make our launch vehicles just extraordinarily expensive."
    The challenge for ULA is even greater given U.S. congressional pressure for it to abandon, sooner rather than later, the Atlas 5' main-stage RD-180 engine, whose Russian pedigree is a problem at a time of heightened political heat between Russia and the United States. SpaceX has also stoked this fire for its own account.
     
    "Blue Origin is a super-rich girl, and then there is this poor girl over here, Aerojet Rocketdyne. But we have to continue to go to planned rehearsal dinners, buy cakes and all the rest with both."
     
    ULA is now working with Kent, Washington-based Blue Origin, owned by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos; and Aerojet Rocketdyne of Rancho Cordova, California, on RD-180 replacements.
    Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 engine uses liquid oxygen and kerosene. Blue Origin's BE-4 uses liquid oxygen and methane.
    Tobey said Bezos has invested $500 million of his own money in Blue Origin and, as demonstrated during the explosion of a Blue Origin engine on a test stand, is willing to "open his checkbook" to pursue what for Bezos is more a passion than a quest for business profit.
    Compared to Bezos, Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 is working off a relatively small government budget, Tobey said. He did not reference a recent U.S. Defense Department announcement that substantially more funds would be arriving to develop the AR1.
    Comparing the two engine developments – Aerojet Rocketdyne pursuing the classic government funding route, while Blue Origin has a billionaire owner who can act lightning-fast – the two companies' situations do not favor Aerojet Rocketdyne.
    "Compare it to having two fiancées, two possible brides," Tobey said of ULA's approach to the two. "Blue Origin is a super-rich girl, and then there is this poor girl over here, Aerojet Rocketdyne. But we have to continue to go to planned rehearsal dinners, buy cakes and all the rest with both.
    "We're doing all the work on both, and the chance of Aerojet Rocketdyne beating the billionaire is pretty low. Basically we're putting a whole lot more energy into BE-4 for Blue Origin."
    Using methane would be new for the U.S. space sector, imposing risks, but Tobey said the BE-4 engine is only 60 percent of the cost of the AR1, a clear advantage in today's cost-driven market.
    Of both engines, he said: "They are never going to outperform the RD-180."
    Under Chief Executive Tory Bruno, ULA has taken steps to modernize the company's image. Bruno tweets up a storm and comes across as approachable and possessed of a sense of humor – neither of these traits were associated with ULA in the past.
    Fittingly, Bruno turned to Twitter March 16 to put some distance between ULA and Tobey's remarks. "These ill-advised statements do not reflect ULA's views or our relationship with our valuable suppliers,"  Bruno said. "We welcome competition."
    The company's proposed Vulcan rocket – designed to cost substantially less than the Atlas 5 – could help transform ULA's stodgy, government-coddled image — a complaint voiced by ULA personnel on social media aimed at young jobseeking engineers.
    As much as Tobey lamented that ULA deserves more credit than it gets in the market of public opinion, he also expressed – with humor — an engineer's admiration for SpaceX and what it has done in that same market.
    "Don't get me wrong: SpaceX has done some amazing stuff," Tobey said. "The landing [in December] of that [Falcon 9] first stage at the Cape was nothing short of amazing. My wife and I were at Best Buy and watching it on my iPhone and I just got goose bumps. It was cool.
    "Watching them smash it into the barge was fun, too," he said of previous, and a subsequent, SpaceX attempts at landing the first stage.
    "It's getting tons of press. It's extraordinarily, engineeringly cool – but it's dumb," Tobey said. "I mean: Really? You carried 100,000 pounds of fuel after deployment of the SES satellite [SpaceX's March launch of the commercial SES-9 telecommunications satellite, to geostationary-transfer orbit] just to try to land on the barge."
    ULA has concluded that the damage to a rocket's first stage, including its engine, as it heads toward landing, plus the cost in fuel needed to turn the stage around and prepare for landing, is not likely a winning ticket.
    But he said the investments by billionaires Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos and Virgin Galactic backer Richard Branson have been "really, really good for this industry."
    "It's quite a shot in the arm for ULA," Tobey said. "It's going to be a great story written here and my job is to make sure it has a happy ending. But we'll see."
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.03.2016 08:45:18
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ula-shied-away-price-war-021345846.html
    ЦитироватьULA exec resigns after saying firm shied away from price war with SpaceX  
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/121034.gif) (http://www.reuters.com/)  
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/121036.jpg) (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ula-shied-away-price-war-021345846.html#)
    An exterior of the SpaceX headquarters in Hawthorne, California May 29, 2014. REUTERS/Mario Anzuoni
     
    By Irene Klotz
     
    CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. (Reuters) - A senior United Launch Alliance executive resigned on Wednesday after saying the firm last year refused to bid on a launch service contract for the U.S. military's next-generation GPS satellite because it was hoping to avoid a "cost shootout" with Elon Musk's SpaceX.
    The comments by Brett Tobey, formerly ULA vice president of engineering, were made on Tuesday at the University of Colorado-Boulder. The industry trade publication Space News posted an audio file of Tobey's talk on Wednesday.
    Tobey resigned his position, effective immediately, ULA chief executive Tory Bruno said in a statement. ULA is a joint venture of Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) and Boeing (BA.N).
    "The views, positions and inaccurate statements Mr. Tobey presented at his recent speaking engagement were not aligned with the direction of the company, my views, nor the views I expect from ULA leaders," Bruno said in the statement.
    Tobey's comments contradict the reason ULA gave last year for skipping the bid.
    The comments came as ULA, the sole provider for U.S. military launches for nearly a decade, scrambles to compete with industry newcomer Space Exploration Technologies, or SpaceX, whose launches cost a half to a third of those of ULA.
    "The government was not happy with us not bidding that contract because they had felt that...they had bent over backwards to lean the fill to our advantage. We saw it as a cost shootout between us and SpaceX," Tobey said on Tuesday.
    At the time, ULA said it was not bidding to launch the GPS-3 satellite because it did not have the proper accounting procedures in place to do the work.
    It also said it lacked enough of the Russian-made RD-180 engines that power its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket to launch the GPS satellite, citing a congressional ban passed in 2014 after Russia's annexation of Ukraine's Crimea region.
    Tobey said the ban was engineered by Musk to help break ULA's monopoly on the U.S. military's launch business.
    Musk "starts attacking us in Washington. He...says, 'Why don't you go after United Launch Alliance and see if you can get that engine to be outlawed?'," Tobey said.
    A spokesman for SpaceX, John Taylor, declined to comment on Wednesday.
    The ban was reversed in December by Senator Richard Shelby, an Alabama Republican, Tobey said.
    Congress is debating whether to re-establish the ban on Russian rocket engines for military missions, and possibly expand it to include NASA launch service contracts as well.

     (Reporting by Irene Klotz; Editing by Kenneth Maxwell)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.03.2016 13:53:58
    http://spacenews.com/ula-vp-resigns-following-remarks-on-companys-competitive-position-strategy/

    ЦитироватьULA VP resigns following remarks on company's competitive position, strategy

    PARIS—The debate over March 15 remarks by United Launch Alliance Engineering Vice President Brett Tobey during a university seminar – remarks that cost him his job the next day after his company disavowed them – has obscured the fact that much of what he said is beyond serious question.

    The truly contestable parts, and those that likely caused his resignation – Reuters reported his departure late March 16 — are little more than the usual excesses of someone defending his company beyond what the evidence shows.

    Here are some of the topics that Tobey raised. The ones that forced his departure are not necessarily the most important:

    — Tobey's suggestion that U.S. Sen. John McCain (D-Arizona) is an attack dog for ULA competitor SpaceX, using the Russian RD-180 engine as a pretext, was not just impolitic. It brushed aside the legitimate issue of how much the U.S. Defense Department – which for years declined to develop a U.S. alternative to the Russian RD-180, which powers ULA's Atlas 5 vehicle – should continue to rely on a Russia whose geopolitical strategy has forced a rethink of U.S. and Western relations with Moscow.

    The fact that SpaceX has made use of the argument to advance its own corporate interests does not invalidate the seriousness of the issue.

    — Tobey implied that the absence of public debate over Orbital ATK's use of the RD-181 engine, made by the same Russian company that builds the RD-180, was no accident. But the fact is that, for now, the discussion in Washington has focused uniquely on Russian engines for U.S. military programs, not for commercial or civil government missions with NASA, where Orbital ATK operates.

    — Tobey's remarks about the competition between Blue Origin and Aerojet Rocketdyne to replace the RD-180– his rich girl/poor girl analogy was intended to be comical and drew laughs fr om the University of Colorado-Boulder engineering audience – were little more than stating the obvious.

    ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno said as much in June testimony before the U.S. Congress: Blue Origin's BE-4 has the inside track, and Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 is the challenger. BE-4 development is more than a year ahead of the AR1.

    What is more, Tobey said the BE-4 is likely to be 40 percent less costly than the AR1 and is backed by a billionaire, Amazon Chief Executive Jeff Bezos, who can make split-second investment decisions on behalf of BE-4, and has already demonstrated his determination to see it through.

    AR1, in contrast, depends mainly on U.S. government backing, meaning Aerojet Rocketdyne has many phone numbers to dial to win support, whereas Blue Origin needs only Bezos's mobile.

    — Tobey's assessment of ULA's corporate ownership – a 50/50 joint venture of Lockheed Martin and Boeing – as "dysfunctional parents" was in response to a university questioner's incredulity at the fact that ULA must get quarterly approval for continued work on its new Vulcan rocket.

    "The discussion was, 'Why not just launch the rest of our Atlases and Deltas in the in the inventory in most profitable way and then, just like we did with USA [United Space Alliance, a Boeing-Lockheed joint venture to manage space shuttle operations and other NASA work], go out of business?" Tobey said, referring to the Lockheed-Boeing debate on ULA's future.

    Call it what you will, most industry observers have long agreed that ULA's corporate structure will have to change if the company is to evolve into the lean, competitive force its managers have stated as their goal. Tobey said Aerojet Rocketdyne's $2 billion bid to buy ULA was rejected because ULA's owners value the business at $4 billion.

    — ULA's decision not to enter the competition with Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX for a U.S. Air Force GPS-3 satellite launch, he said, was a simple observation that SpaceX can offer prices that ULA is unable to match.

    Naturally enough, the company did not say this at the time, preferring instead to cite obscure government contract rules for which ULA's accounting office was unprepared in explaining its refusal to bid.

    — Tobey's larger point was that the U.S. government is now obliged to use the lowest-cost measure as its prime criterion for awarding launch-service contracts. The days of reliability at all cost – and he conceded the cost is high – are over.

    And here here raised an issue that the U.S. Air Force, the national security establishment and NASA will all grapple with: Can they live with Silicon Valley's "iterate, fail, then iterate again" operating manual?

    "This is where it starts to get emotional at work," Tobey said, recalling that ULA will be launching Boeing's CST-100 Starliner astronaut capsule under contract to NASA, just as SpaceX's Falcon 9 will be launching SpaceX's crew-version Dragon capsule.

    "When you talk about a failure, and then getting to a definitive root cause and making substantial changes to fix it – all that costs lots and lots of money," Tobey said. "And if we start chasing the price point down to wh ere it's now affordable, how much will you lose and what risks are you taking?

    "You really don't know you've gone too far until you end up losing a rocket. If you lose a rocket with a low-cost commercial satellite, it's one thing. If you lose it on a national security satellite, it's another thing.

    "If you lose it with humans, you become part of the tragedy in the history of American space flight. That's completely different."

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.03.2016 15:47:02
    Краткое содержание драмы. Вчера "вице-президент по инжинирингу" ULA Бретт Тоби дал интервью, за которое сегодня был уволен. 

    Основные моменты:

    1. Blue Origin - супер-богатая девушка, Aerojet - бедная. Пока приходится ужинать, покупать тортики и прочее с обеими. На это директор Аэроджета уже успела ответить в твиттере, что гуляют обычно с одними девушками, а женятся на других. 

    https://twitter.com/DrakeEileen/status/710211277910446080

    2. BE-4 на 40% дешевле AR-1
    3. Когда Аэроджет предлагал за ULA 2 млрд, Боинг и Локхид оценивали фирму в 4 млрд.
    4. Боинг и Локхид всерьез рассматривали возможность запустить все оставшиеся Атласы и Дельты и закрыть ULA, подобно тому как как был закрыт USA (United Space Alliance - оператор Шаттла). Это не было сделано "по политическим причинам"
    5. В конкурсе на запуск спутника GPS3 ULA отказался участвовать из за того что их цена была неконкурентноспособной по сравнению со SpaceX. Официально было заявлено что ULA не может участвовать в конкурсе из за проблем с бухгалтерией.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 17.03.2016 17:38:13
    Спасибо за вчерашнее, а то в твиттерах были непонятные сообщения.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 18.03.2016 06:14:56
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    2. BE-4 на 40% дешевле AR-1
    Он то ли пьяный был, то ли перегрелся где-то, но прочитав транскрипт его "речи" целиком, у меня осталось именно такое впечатление.

     По поводу сравнения стоимости двух движков:



    The problem is that this engine is giving us a price 60% of the AR-1. The price of the AR-1 is 100%, the price for two of these is 60% of that. He's already inked a long term contract deal for that. He also gives great tours up at Kent, Washington to basically show he is moving in the right direction.


    Ну то есть, как вы и сказали, BE-4 на 40% дешевле, но этот чудик говорит "стоимость двух их (БЕ-4) равняется 60% стоимости [одного?] AR-1".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 18.03.2016 00:07:30
    Вообще это было не интервью а какое-то выступление перед студентами. Кто-то снял его на телефон и выложил в интернет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 18.03.2016 16:28:57
    http://spacenews.com/mccain-calls-for-investigation-of-fired-ula-execs-controversial-comments/

    ЦитироватьTobey said that when Marilyn Hewson, chief executive of ULA parent company Lockheed Martin, meets with top DoD officials to discuss the F-35 fighter, the Littoral combat ship and other big-ticket Pentagon programs, "the first thing that's going to come out of the DoD leadership's mouth when she walks in the door is,'What are you doing with that damn RD-180 engine? I'm sick of McCain attacking us.'
    Еще прекрасное. Тоби проболтался, что во время встречи президента Локхид Мартин Мерилин Хюсон и высокопоставленных чиновников минобороны посвященной обсуждению Ф-35 и прочих дорогостоящих программ Пентагона первое что ее спросили как только она вошла в дверь было: "Что вы собираетесь делать с РД-180? Меня достали атаки Маккейна."
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 09.04.2016 11:08:32
    https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/718583893386010625

    ЦитироватьJames DeanVerified account‏@flatoday_jdean (https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean)

    ULA says Atlas V/MUOS-5 launch "delayed and indefinite" as investigation continues into RD-180 engine's premature shutdown during OA-6.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 09.04.2016 11:10:44
    https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/718602929599426560

    ЦитироватьJeff Foust‏@jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust)

    Jones: working on 8H21 engine as option for ULA's ACES upper stage; should be about ready by end of 2019. #SA16PHX (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SA16PHX?src=hash)
    Работа над двигателем XCOR для ACES должна завершиться до конца 2019.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 12.04.2016 07:53:40
    http://spaceflightnow.com/2016/04/11/atlas-5-to-launch-commercial-space-habitat-for-bigelow-aerospace/
    ЦитироватьAtlas 5 to launch commercial space habitat for Bigelow Aerospace             
     April 11, 2016 (http://spaceflightnow.com/2016/04/) Justin Ray (http://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)       
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154928.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154928.jpg)An illustration of Bigelow module launching atop Atlas 5. Credit: ULA

    The maker of inflatable technology for a commercial space station will use a top-of-the-line Atlas 5 rocket with a stretched nose cone to hoist the first habitat into Earth orbit in 2020.
    Bigelow Aerospace and United Launch Alliance announced the partnership today at the 32nd Space Symposium in Colorado Springs.
    "We could not be more pleased than to partner with Bigelow Aerospace and reserve a launch slot on our manifest for this revolutionary mission," said Tory Bruno, ULA president and CEO.
    "This innovative and game-changing advance will dramatically increase opportunities for space research in fields like materials, medicine and biology. And it enables destinations in space for countries, corporations and even individuals far beyond what is available today, effectively democratizing space. We can't begin to imagine the future potential of affordable real estate in space."
    The Atlas 5 rocket will fly in the 552 configuration with five side-mounted solid boosters, a twin-engine Centaur upper stage and an 87-foot-long, 18-foot-diameter payload fairing with over 50 feet of usable cargo room, the most capable variant of the vehicle available.
    The longer nose cone will give the vehicle a height of 216 feet, 10 feet taller than any previous Atlas thus far.
    "You are constrained by the ability of your launch vehicle. In our case, we have to fit within two things — a vehicle that can lift 43,500 pounds and a vehicle that has the fairing length. There is only one at the moment, and for the next foreseeable few years, and that happens to be the Atlas 552 stretch fairing," said company founder and hotel entrepreneur Robert Bigelow.
    "When looking for a vehicle to launch our large, unique spacecraft, ULA provides a heritage of solid mission success, schedule certainty and a cost effective solution," he added.
    "SpaceX, they do not have the capability with the fairing size that is necessary to accommodate the 330 (module). So that is not even a choice."
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154934.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Cfy-ogrWIAAww2Y.jpg-large.jpeg)
    An illustration of Bigelow module launching atop Atlas 5. Credit: ULA

    Atlas comes off the pad riding two-and-a-half million pounds of thrust from the solids and its kerosene-fueled main engine. The rocket, which will return to dual-engine Centaurs for greater lifting power on low-Earth orbit ascents starting next year, will have an upper stage with two hydrogen-fed powerplants for 46,000 pounds of thrust.
    That performance is needed to lift the so-called "B330" module to space for either a free-flying station or docking it to the International Space Station and increase the existing work and living area there.
    "We are exploring options for the location of the initial B330 including discussions with NASA on the possibility of attaching it to the International Space Station," said Bigelow, the billionaire owner of the Budget Suites of America hotel chain.
     .
     "In that configuration, the B330 will enlarge the station's volume by 30 percent and function as a multipurpose testbed in support of NASA's exploration goals as well as provide significant commercial opportunities."
    The provisional name of this module is XBASE or Expandable Bigelow Advanced Station Enhancement.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154931.jpg) (http://spaceflightnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/av_muos1_l9.jpg)
    File photo of Atlas 5 rocket with five solids. Credit: ULA

    But if the International Space Station idea doesn't pan out, Bigelow says "the B330 is essentially a standalone space station in and of itself."
    Commercial uses could range from pharmaceutical research and manufacturing to tourism.
    "My background is development, construction, general contracting and banking and everything to do with real estate. So I transfer a lot of the business case from that industry and, essentially, the foundation of our business case (for Bigelow Aerospace) is time sharing. Time sharing time and volume and branding — naming rights to all kinds of advertising," said Bigelow.
    Expandable modules are large, roomy habitats that are lighter to launch and collapse down to fit within the nose cone volume of existing rockets, offering clear advantages over traditional solid-body compartments.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154933.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154933.jpg)
    The interior of a B330 expandable space module. Credit: Bigelow Aerospace

    The ULA launch deal comes just one day after Bigelow's experimental BEAM module — the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module — arrived at the International Space Station aboard a SpaceX cargo-delivery ship. BEAM will be attached to the station this weekend, then inflated in late May for a two-year test to record internal temperatures, reactions to debris impacts and the radiation levels in the module.
    "We want to understand the structural integrity, the radiation performance of (the module) and the temperature controls in order to help inform our choices for deep space habitats," said Jason Crusan, director of NASA's Advanced Exploration Systems Division. "So we're going to do that over these two years."
    With the internal volume about the size of a small bedroom, the BEAM module is not equipped with lights or any other crew amenities. The astronauts will keep the experiment compartment closed off and enter only a few times per year to retrieve stored data.
    "This type of architecture has never been flown before," Bigelow said.
    "We are in the early phase of a new kind of spacecraft that offers a lot of promise."
    The B330 that Atlas will launch into low-Earth orbit in 2020 will have 330 cubic meters (12,000 cubic feet) of internal space, offering a 210 percent more habitable volume with an increase of only 33 percent in mass compared to the conventional U.S. Destiny laboratory module of the International Space Station.
    Built at the Bigelow Aerospace factory in North Las Vegas, each B330 will support a crew of six, have four observation windows and a 20-year design life.
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154935.jpg)
    Illustration of B330 module with a Boeing Starliner crew capsule docked. Credit: Bigelow Aerospace

    A free-flying Bigelow station could share room between companies and foreign nations wanting to exploit space.
    "It's a combination of everything from what you could manufacture product-wise and bring down," Bigelow said.
    "We would operate these on behalf of nations that have astronaut corps and others that aspire to have them. Right now, the frequency of the opportunity to fly is not often. Other than for the United States and Russia, it's about once every three years. Some countries, maybe never, or very, very seldom. So there is a substantial appetite out there we've discovered, and so we think that's a market," Bigelow said.
    "It could change the image of a country overnight to have that kind of facility. Or it could induce (a company) to locate their plant in their country and offer them that kind of resource in orbit as a very unique laboratory."
    A commercial mode of transportation for launching crews to the Bigelow facilities and returning them to Earth has stymied the billionaire's dreams. But with Boeing's Starliner and the SpaceX Dragon capsules both slated for human test-flights next year, Bigelow's wait may soon be over.
    "The element of substantial cliental — us starting to collect deposits by virtue of reservations — has always been hostage to the availability of transportation. And we've had to throttle our own progress according to the ability of transportation to be there at a certain point in time," Bigelow said.
    The Starliners will be delivered to space atop Atlas 5 rockets in the 422 configuration with two solids and twin-engine upper stages. SpaceX will use its standardized Falcon 9 rocket.
    The DreamChaser mini spaceplanes and Blue Origin's orbital vehicle are future options as well, Bigelow said.
    NASA is studying using expandable habitats for a crew's living area on far-flung missions into deep space, such as an asteroid or Mars. The BEAM module is a stepping stone to demonstrate the new technology in the actual space environment before moving to the larger designs of B330.
    "It is the future," said Kirk Shireman, NASA's manager of the International Space Station program. "Humans will be using these kinds of modules as we move farther and farther off the planet and as we inhabit low-Earth orbit. So I think it really is the next logical step in humans getting off the planet."
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.04.2016 10:49:42
    http://www.geekwire.com/2016/united-launch-alliances-ceo-weighs-blue-origins-chances-in-multibillion-dollar-rocket-engine-race/
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance's CEO weighs Blue Origin's chances in multibillion-dollar rocket engine race
    by Alan Boyle (http://www.geekwire.com/author/alanboyle/) on April 15, 2016 at 12:59 pm
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/101929.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance's president and CEO, Tory Bruno, talks with students during the 32nd Space Symposium in Colorado Springs, Colo. (GeekWire photo by Alan Boyle)

    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – United Launch Alliance's president and CEO, Tory Bruno, is facing a 2019 deadline from Congress (http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/tech/2015/06/27/air-force-rd-180-rocket-replacement-timeline/29337551/) to come up with a made-in-the-USA replacement for the Russian-built rocket engines currently used on ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 launch vehicle. But he doesn't sound worried. He's got a Plan A, and a Plan B.
    "We're in that great position of having the two to choose from," Bruno told GeekWire this week here at the 32nd Space Symposium.
    Plan A is a rocket engine that's being built by Blue Origin (https://www.blueorigin.com/), the company founded by Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos and headquartered in Kent, Wash. Nineteen months ago, Bezos and Bruno announced a deal  (http://www.geekwire.com/2014/bezos-blue-origin-wins-deal-develop-u-s-rocket-engine/)to support the development of Blue Origin's BE-4 engine, fueled by liquid natural gas, for ULA's next-generation Vulcan semi-reusable rocket.
    Bruno said Bezos is putting up the "lion's share" of the money for the effort, and in February, the U.S. Air Force provided an additional $46.6 million boost (http://www.geekwire.com/2016/blue-origin-ula-and-aerojet-strike-deals-with-pentagon-for-made-in-usa-rocket-engines/).
    But then there's Plan B: Aerojet Rocketdyne (http://www.rocket.com/) – which is based in Sacramento, Calif., but has a facility in Redmond, Wash. – is getting $115 million from the Air Force to develop a kerosene-fueled engine called the AR-1 that could serve as an alternative for ULA's rockets.
    United Launch Alliance (http://www.ulalaunch.com/), a Colorado-based joint venture involving the Boeing Co. and Lockheed Martin, will soon have to pick which plan to go with. It's not a decision Bruno takes lightly.
    "Billions are at stake," he said. "The nation's ability to maintain its edge in space for national security is at stake."
    https://youtu.be/GNOOHECraUQ (https://youtu.be/GNOOHECraUQ)
    Both companies say they're the best match for ULA.

    "All of us at Blue Origin find the fact that we are going to get to help with the national security missions incredibly motivating," Bezos said at the Space Symposium.
    Eileen Drake, Aerojet's CEO and president, was similarly bullish: "In developing our AR-1 engine, we have specifically chosen a very proven propellant, a proven engine cycle and a proven design methodology to make sure that we minimize any risk to mission and to schedule."
    By some measures, Blue Origin is taking the riskier approach: The 550,000-pound-thrust BE-4 would be the biggest methane-fueled rocket engine ever built.
    "Jeff is the one that has to demonstrate that his technical risk is retired," Bruno said.
    But Blue Origin got a head start on its project, because it had already been working on the BE-4 for its own future orbital rocket for three years when the ULA deal was struck. "We expect that if Jeff succeeds, he will be done first, because he started first," Bruno said. "He'll be delivering an engine to us, based on both of their respective schedules, about 16 months earlier."
    That's assuming the BE-4 works. The turning point will come when Blue Origin operates the full-scale engine for an extended period of time in ground tests – a major milestone that's expected to take place by the end of the year.
    If those tests are successful, ULA will assess the projected schedule for delivering engines, as well as their expected performance and cost, and "down-select" to either Plan A or Plan B for the Vulcan rocket, Bruno said.
    https://youtu.be/X519cwQqyd4 (https://youtu.be/X519cwQqyd4)
    That decision will mark a turning point for ULA as well as for Blue Origin and Aerojet. ULA is no longer the only game in town when it comes to putting U.S. national security payloads into orbit. Last year, Elon Musk's SpaceX launch venture was certified to fly such payloads as well. And this year, SpaceX and Orbital ATK received separate awards (http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123466879) from the Air Force for rocket propulsion projects.
    The competitive environment is forcing ULA into a "big transformation," Bruno said.
    This week, he announced that up to 875 job positions, representing about 25 percent of ULA's current workforce, would be eliminated by the end of 2017 (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-ula-layoffs-idUSKCN0XB2HQ) to make the company more competitive with SpaceX. A big part of the rationale is that ULA would be dropping its Delta line of launch vehicles and making the transition from Atlas to Vulcan.
    One of the selling points for Aerojet has been that the kerosene-fueled AR-1 could serve as a direct replacement for the Russian-made RD-180 engine on the Atlas 5. But Bruno said that's not the case. For one thing, it'd take two 550,000-pound-thrust AR-1 engines to fill in for the 860,000-pound-thrust RD-180. "There really is no drop-in replacement," he said.
    Bruno expects that the Atlas 5's customers will switch to the more powerful, less expensive Vulcan once it enters service. Those customers include national security agencies and commercial satellite ventures as well as Boeing, which plans to use the Atlas 5 to send its CST-100 Starliner space taxi to the International Space Station.
    https://youtu.be/uxftPmpt7aA (https://youtu.be/uxftPmpt7aA)
    Although the rocket engine race is the biggest decision facing ULA in the months ahead, Bruno is also casting his eye to farther frontiers. For example, ULA and Bigelow Aerospace announced a partnership this week (http://www.geekwire.com/2016/bigelow-aerospace-ula-plan-expandable-b330-space-station-module-2020/) that could put Bigelow's B330 expandable space module into Earth orbit in 2020, potentially to serve as a commercial space lab.
    ULA is also working on an upper-stage rocket propulsion system known as the Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu72H3jMpuY), or ACES. The hydrogen-fueled system could make use of Aerojet's enhanced RL-10 rocket engine, Blue Origin's BE-3 engine, or XCOR Aerospace's 8H21 engine. It's designed to provide much more capability than ULA's current Centaur upper stage.
      Within a couple of decades, we see 1,000 men and women in space – because their jobs are in space.
    Bruno noted that the Centaur was designed to operate in the seven to eight hours after launch. "ACES will not go for seven or eight hours," he said. "It will go for seven or eight days."
    ACES could serve as an element for in-space transportation, opening the way for more people to live and work in space. "I think that we're just really on the very threshold of expanding the permanent human presence beyond our planet," Bruno said.
    A ULA initiative known as #Cislunar1000 (https://www.facebook.com/hashtag/cislunar1000) is aimed at laying out a long-term vision for taking advantage of resources such as near-Earth asteroids, lunar ice and space solar power. The objective? To build up a self-sustaining economic base in the region of space around Earth and the moon.
    "It's very different from the exploration mission that we've done all this time, led by NASA," Bruno said. "That's great work, but now Lewis and Clark have come and gone, and it's time to come behind with the farms and the homesteads. Eventually, within a couple of decades, we see 1,000 men and women in space – because their jobs are in space."
    Sounds like Elon Musk is no longer the only space executive talking about turning humanity into a multiplanetary species.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 17.04.2016 10:54:11
    http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/space-symposium/2016/04/14/hyten-defends-air-force-cost-estimate-end-reliance-russian-rocket-engine/83052630/
    ЦитироватьHyten Defends Air Force Cost Estimate To End Reliance on Russian Rocket Engine
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/226314.webp)
    Lara Seligman (http://www.defensenews.com/staff/42599/lara-seligman/), Defense News 7:53 p.m. EDT April 14, 2016

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/226310.webp)
    (Photo: National Space Symposium)

    COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. – A day after the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee accused the US Air Force of misrepresenting the cost to end reliance on Russian rocket engines for military space launch, the chief of Air Force Space Command defended the service's position.
    Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., cited a $3.5 billion discrepancy between two separate cost estimates Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James provided to Congress for transitioning off the Russian RD-180, which powers United Launch Alliance's Atlas V launch vehicle.
    Replacing the Atlas V with a combination of ULA's Delta IV heavy launch system and SpaceX's newly-certified Falcon 9 could cost as much as $5 billion, James recently testified before the committee.
    By contrast, James told the committee shortly before the hearing that splitting future launches between the two domestic vehicles would cost roughly $1.5 billion, McCain said in a Wednesday letter to the secretary.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/226319.webp)
    DEFENSE NEWS
    McCain Skeptical of US Air Force Space Launch Cost Estimate (http://www.defensenews.com/story/defense/show-daily/space-symposium/2016/04/13/mccain-skeptical-air-force-space-launch-cost-estimate/83010528/)

    But it is impossible to accurately predict the cost of launch vehicles by the end of the decade, the point at which McCain wants the Air Force to stop using the RD-180, Air Force Space Command chief Gen. John Hyten said Thursday during the Space Foundation's annual National Space Symposium.
    The Delta IV is much more expensive than the Atlas V — on that point Congress and the Air Force generally agree. But exactly how much more the Delta IV will cost in 2020 is difficult to calculate, Hyten said. It all depends on what assumptions the Air Force makes about the state of the launch industry in the next decade.
    "The reason I don't know how expensive that's going to be is because I cant tell you what the industry is going to be in 2020, I can't tell you what ULA's business case is going to be in 2020," Hyten said during a media briefing. "I can make certain assumptions that make the Delta IV very attractive, and I can make certain assumptions that make the Delta IV unbelievably expensive — it's all based on the assumptions that you make of what you think the world is going to be like in 2020."
    The Air Force has consistently said the most cost-effective way to bridge the gap between now and 2019 when a domestic launch vehicle becomes available is to continue to use the RD-180, Hyten said.
    "I don't like giving the Russians one dollar on anything, I just don't like that but we have to maintain assured access to space and we have to be very smart about how we use the taxpayers dollars," Hyten said.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 19.04.2016 12:28:52
    https://youtu.be/8qzM1aXnf64
    ULA's Role in the Commercial Crew Program
    https://youtu.be/8qzM1aXnf64 (https://youtu.be/8qzM1aXnf64)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 28.04.2016 16:56:31
    http://tass.ru/kosmos/3247751
    ЦитироватьПрофильный комитет Конгресса США одобрил закупку 18 двигателей РД-180
      28 апреля, 16:31 UTC+3
     
     "Гарантированный доступ в космическое пространство необходим для нашей национальной безопасности", - заявил конгрессмен Майк Коффман  
     
    ВАШИНГТОН, 28 апреля. /Корр. ТАСС Антон Чудаков/. Комитет палаты представителей Конгресса США по делам вооруженных сил в ходе обсуждения оборонного бюджета на 2017 финансовый год одобрил в четверг утром приобретение 18 российских ракетных двигателей РД-180. Конгрессмены рассматривали проект бюджета с 10:00 (17:00 мск) среды.
    После бурной дискуссии члены комитета проголосовали за соответствующую поправку, внесенную конгрессменом Майком Коффманом (республиканец, от штата Колорадо), несмотря на стремление разработать американскую альтернативу российским двигателям.
    "Гарантированный доступ в космическое пространство необходим для нашей национальной безопасности, - отметил законодатель. - Я осведомлен о необходимости положить конец нашей зависимости от российских ракетных двигателей, но только не за счет гарантированного доступа в космос".
    Его противник из штата Калифорния Дункан Хантер раскритиковал предложение однопартийца. "Вы в буквальном смысле вкладываете $540 млн в военную модернизацию России", - утверждал он.
    Ранее заместитель министра обороны США по закупкам и технологиям Фрэнк Кендалл рассказал, что преждевременный отказ его страны от использования РД-180 обойдется Пентагону более чем в $1 млрд. При этом он предупредил, что собственный двигатель американские компании смогут создать не ранее 2021 года, то есть на два года позже, чем планировалось первоначально.
    "Для того, чтобы отказаться от РД-180, нам нужно будет израсходовать из нашего бюджета более $1 млрд, и я думаю, что это не очень хороший вариант", - сказал Кендалл, пояснив, что каждый пуск ракеты Delta 4 вместо Atlas 5, оснащенной российскими двигателями, будет стоить его ведомству лишние $50 млн. В настоящее время Пентагон использует именно этот носитель для вывода на орбиту военных, в том числе разведывательных, спутников.
    Кендалл также отметил, что в США новый двигатель будет создан в лучшем случае через пять лет. По оценкам минобороны страны, в этот период для обеспечения пусков ракет Atlas 5 по правительственным заказам ему понадобятся еще 18 российских РД-180 производства предприятия "Энергомаш" из подмосковных Химок.

     Разработка новых двигателей и нынешнее соглашение с Москвой

    Новые ракетные двигатели разрабатывают сейчас сразу несколько американских компаний, в том числе консорциум United Launch Alliance (ULA), созданный корпорациями Boeing и Lockheed Martin. Именно он эксплуатирует ракеты Atlas 5 и более дорогую, а поэтому гораздо реже используемую Delta 4. Оба носителя могут применяться для выполнения пусков как по заказам Пентагона, так и в интересах частных телекоммуникационных компаний.
    Соглашение между Москвой и Вашингтоном, которое предусматривало поставки в США 101 двигателя РД-180 и оценивалось примерно в $1 млрд, было заключено в 1997 году. Полтора года назад Конгресс из-за обострения отношений с Россией ввел запрет на их использование после 2019 года, но затем сам же отменил его, когда стало ясно, что свои двигатели в течение ближайших трех лет в США созданы не будут. Сразу после этого консорциум ULA заказал в России дополнительно еще 20 РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 28.04.2016 16:58:30
    Ключевое 

    Цитироватькаждый пуск ракеты Delta 4 вместо Atlas 5, оснащенной российскими двигателями, будет стоить его ведомству лишние $50 млн.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 28.04.2016 17:23:11
    А каждый Фалкон-9 на 50 млн меньше...  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 28.04.2016 20:28:45
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    одобрил в четверг утром приобретение 18 российских ракетных двигателей РД-180...."Вы в буквальном смысле вкладываете $540 млн в военную модернизацию России", - утверждал он.
    Один двигатель в этой партии стоит 30 млн$? Интересно, а есть цена на партию двигателей купленную до 2014 года?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 29.04.2016 16:28:33
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    А каждый Фалкон-9 на 50 млн меньше...  :)
    Ф9 не в состоянии выводить все военные нагрузки - "кишка тонка". А Хэви еще не скоро станет доступным.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 29.04.2016 15:14:19
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Ф9 не в состоянии выводить все военные нагрузки - "кишка тонка". А Хэви еще не скоро станет доступным.
    основной вариант атласа - 401й. фалкон его делает. тем более мы не знаем данных по фултрасту - он справится уже почти со всем. ну и на сэкономленные на фалконах деньги можно запустить дельту с 4мя бустерами
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 29.04.2016 18:40:34
    Фалкон-9 может выводить ПН на 4 из 8 орбит необходимых военным.

    Понятно не может ГСО. А какие 3 остальные? Какая-нибудь ОТМ?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 29.04.2016 19:04:59
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Ф9 не в состоянии выводить все военные нагрузки - "кишка тонка". А Хэви еще не скоро станет доступным.
    основной вариант атласа - 401й. фалкон его делает. тем более мы не знаем данных по фултрасту - он справится уже почти со всем. ну и на сэкономленные на фалконах деньги можно запустить дельту с 4мя бустерами
    Он не может вывести 6 т даже на ГПО, не говоря уже о ГСО. Ф9 может заменить лишь самые младшие версии нынешних EELV.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 29.04.2016 19:20:27
    самый младший - это как бы не 70% пусков
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 30.04.2016 00:47:56
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Ф9 не в состоянии выводить все военные нагрузки - "кишка тонка". А Хэви еще не скоро станет доступным.
    основной вариант атласа - 401й. фалкон его делает. тем более мы не знаем данных по фултрасту - он справится уже почти со всем. ну и на сэкономленные на фалконах деньги можно запустить дельту с 4мя бустерами
    Он не может вывести 6 т даже на ГПО, не говоря уже о ГСО. Ф9 может заменить лишь самые младшие версии нынешних EELV.
    Дмитрий, вроде бы как SpaceX в первую очередь разрабатывает вариант Раптора для верхней ступени. Подозреваю, именно для того чтобы улучшить характеристики F-9/FH. 
    Вопрос: Если предположить что метановый двигатель газ-газ, высотный вариант, на метане будет иметь оптимальную тягу, импульс вроде как обещали в 380с, то как изменятся характеристики F-9FT/FH с такой второй ступенью? 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 30.04.2016 07:45:58
    ЦитироватьИскандер пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    ЦитироватьДмитрий В. пишет:
    Ф9 не в состоянии выводить все военные нагрузки - "кишка тонка". А Хэви еще не скоро станет доступным.
    основной вариант атласа - 401й. фалкон его делает. тем более мы не знаем данных по фултрасту - он справится уже почти со всем. ну и на сэкономленные на фалконах деньги можно запустить дельту с 4мя бустерами
    Он не может вывести 6 т даже на ГПО, не говоря уже о ГСО. Ф9 может заменить лишь самые младшие версии нынешних EELV.
    Дмитрий, вроде бы как SpaceX в первую очередь разрабатывает вариант Раптора для верхней ступени. Подозреваю, именно для того чтобы улучшить характеристики F-9/FH.
    Вопрос: Если предположить что метановый двигатель газ-газ, высотный вариант, на метане будет иметь оптимальную тягу, импульс вроде как обещали в 380с, то как изменятся характеристики F-9FT/FH с такой второй ступенью?
    По Ф9 вообще ничего с точностью не известно :)  Например, к какому случаю спасения 1-й ступени относится официальная г/п 13,15 т на НОО? Например, даже консервативный расчет Ф9 ФТ дает в одноразовом варианте 19-20 т на НОО. Чтобы оценить метановую 2-ю ступень, надо знать реальные характеристики первой, как минимум.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 30.04.2016 11:06:43
    ЦитироватьИскандер пишет:
    Дмитрий, вроде бы как SpaceX в первую очередь разрабатывает вариант Раптора для верхней ступени. Подозреваю, именно для того чтобы улучшить характеристики F-9/FH.
    Вопрос: Если предположить что метановый двигатель газ-газ, высотный вариант, на метане будет иметь оптимальную тягу, импульс вроде как обещали в 380с, то как изменятся характеристики F-9FT/FH с такой второй ступенью?
    - а 230 т не много?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 30.04.2016 13:31:49
    ЦитироватьA launch company, and industry, in transformation
    by Jeff FoustMonday, April 25, 2016
     
    [IMG ]https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235007.jpg[/IMG]
    ULA's ongoing work designing the Vulcan is part of a transformation the company believes is essential to remain competitive in a changing launch market. (credit: ULA)

     One of the central tenets of public speaking is to know your audience. Part of that is to ensure that the audience is neither bored by a simplistic, repetitive talk, nor overwhelmed with details. But part of that is also for the speaker's own good as well: making sure you don't say anything you shouldn't.
     Brett Tobey, United Launch Alliance's then vice president of engineering, appeared to violate that cardinal rule on March 15, when he appeared at an aerospace engineering seminar at the University of Colorado. He spoke unguardedly about not just ULA but also suppliers like Aerojet Rocketdyne and Blue Origin, and competing launch company SpaceX to that audience.

    "This engine is giving us a price 60 percent of the AR1," Tobey said of the BE-4.


     Such a discussion might have made sense in a more private setting, but not in an event publicized on campus in advance for anyone interested in attending. A recording of the seminar, circulated via YouTube, Facebook, and Reddit, was the talk of the space industry in less than 24 hours. ULA quickly distanced itself fr om his comments and, by late March 16, Tobey had resigned.
     Much of the uproar focused on just a few comments. Tobey likened the competition between Aerojet and Blue Origin to provide a first stage engine for ULA's new Vulcan vehicle to having two fiancées, one he acknowledged up front was a "bad analogy" but which he pursued nonetheless.
     "So we're sitting here as a groom with two possible brides, we've got Blue Origin over here, the super rich girl, and we've got this poor girl over here, Aerojet Rocketdyne," he said. "We're doing all this work for both of them, and the chances of Aerojet Rocketdyne coming in and beating the billionaire is pretty low."
     Worse, perhaps, was the suggestion that ULA did not bid on a GPS launch contract last fall—the first competition for an Air Force mission that pitted ULA against SpaceX—primarily because of cost. "The government was not happy with us not bidding that contract because they had felt that they'd bent over backwards to lean the field in our advantage, but we even said we no-bid, because we saw it as a cost shootout between us and SpaceX," he said.
     Lost in the discussion in the days after his comments became public, though, were some interesting items about ULA's vehicle development efforts and the company's self-described "transformation" to lower its costs without sacrificing reliability or performance.
     Some of that involved that competition between Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 engine and Blue Origin's BE-4. ULA's interest in the BE-4 took many in the industry by surprise when it was announced in 2014: Blue Origin is a new entrant into the industry that hasn't built an engine the size of the BE-4, and chose a different propellant mix— liquefied natural gas and liquid oxygen—for its engine. Aerojet Rocketdyne, meanwhile, has decades of experience with engines of all sizes, and its AR-1 uses the same kerosene (specifically, RP-1) and liquid oxygen that powers the Russian-built RD-180 engine in the Atlas V.
     So why take a chance with an untried company and engine design? Tobey suggested a big factor is cost. "This engine [BE-4] is giving us a price 60 percent of the AR1," he said. Blue Origin is also self-funding the development of the engine, rather than seeking Air Force development contracts as Aerojet has. "Jeff Bezos has committed over a half billion dollars to the development of this engine," he said. (Bezos, in a media tour of Blue Origin's headquarters last month, declined to say how much he had spent on the company in general, let alone specific efforts like the BE-4, but suggested his overall investment in the company to date exceeds $500 million.)
     While BE-4 might be the favored engine of ULA currently, as both Blue Origin and ULA officials have publicly suggested, Tobey revealed its development has not been without problems, including an explosion during a test of the engine's "powerpack" on a test stand, but that Bezos quickly moved ahead. "So he blew up this powerpack, but then he just opened up his checkbook and said, okay, we need to rebuild our test stand that we just blew up," Tobey said.

    "It's taking and rebalancing the workforce so that there's a mixture of lower labor grades as well as senior labor grades in the workforce," Tobey said, "and just a lot of chaos, if you will, going forward."

     The selection of a first stage engine is just one part of the overall development of Vulcan, at the core of ULA's efforts to transform itself to respond to a changing, and more competitive, launch market. "Vulcan is basically our way to redesign a booster," he said. "We're designing a new booster that has the same performance as the Atlas, but we're trying to do it for about a third of the cost."
     Tobey also provided some foreshadowing of changes at ULA. "So what we have to do, and what I was hired to do last summer, was to take and lead this transformation of ULA's engineering workforce from where it was and into the future," he said. That includes a "reshaping" of the workforce. "It's taking and rebalancing the workforce so that there's a mixture of lower labor grades as well as senior labor grades in the workforce, and just a lot of chaos, if you will, going forward."
     Earlier this month, ULA acknowledged that it plans to cut 375 jobs this year, followed by 400 to 500 more in 2017, at a company that currently employs about 3,400 people.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235009.jpg)

    Aerojet Rocketdyne president and CEO Eileen Drake discusses her company's development of the AR1 engine during a launch panel at the Space Symposium April 14 as ULA president and CEO Tory Bruno (left) listens. (credit: Space Foundation)

     Heavy-lift panel
     The opposite of off-the-cuff remarks at a university seminar is, perhaps, a large panel session at Space Symposium, one of the space industry's biggest annual conferences. The launch "Mega-Session" on the afternoon of April 14 certainly was mega: ten panelists, representing a range of companies in the industry. With a large panel, and only 90 minutes, there wouldn't be much opportunity for speakers to step out of bounds, particularly with prepared remarks (accompanied, in most cases, by videos) by each speaker taking up the bulk of the time.
     While no individual speaker made much news, there was still an opportunity for speakers, if not clash with one other, at least offering contrasting viewpoints on some topics. That included, not surprisingly, the issue of what engine ULA should choose for Vulcan.
     Eileen Drake, president and CEO of Aerojet Rocketdyne, made a strong pitch for the AR1. "I'm very proud to be a part of Aerojet Rocketdyne, a company that is the only company that has developed and produced very large booster engines," she said. A recent award from the Air Force to support AR1 work "speaks volumes for the confidence that the national security community has in the AR1 and Aerojet Rocketdyne."
     She added that the company specifically a "very proven propellant" along with an engine design to minimize risk, a subtle criticism of Blue Origin's use of liquefied natural gas. "We believe that the AR1 engine is the fastest path, lowest cost, lowest risk to the taxpayer to ending our reliance on the RD-180," she said, suggesting later the AR1 could be used not just on Vulcan, but also on the Atlas itself.
     Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin, made a case for the BE-4 later in the same panel. "The BE-4 engine is America's new engine that will replace the RD-180," he said, enumerating the reasons why the BE-4 is the preferred choice, from a head start on development and engine performance to access to dedicated test facilities and a "rapid decision-making process."

    "Heavy lift will never be a commodity until there's a fundamentally different way of going to space," Bruno said.

     Meyerson said that "significant testing" of the BE-4 is underway, leading up to full-scale engine tests in the fourth quarter of this year. "We look to delivering the first BE-4 engine for both the Vulcan Centaur vehicle and Blue Origin's own orbital launch vehicle by the end of this decade," he said.
     Tory Bruno, the president and CEO of ULA, didn't weigh in on the engine debate on the panel, but he did trigger another debate, on the issue of mission assurance and risk management for launches. Bruno argued that he expected commercial launches to move more towards the national security model of mission assurance, one that is typically considered to be more comprehensive, but also more expensive.
     "There is nothing that is done in the national security space model that is not applicable to commercial," he said. "As traditional providers like ourselves enter that marketplace, we are going to bring those techniques and those disciplines to that market, and make commercial lift every bit as reliable."
     Another panelist took a different view. "I'm not sure that, for us, there's a choice," said Claw Mowry of Arianespace. He noted that the company launched primarily commercial satellites, but also national security missions for European governments, using the same processes for both. "It's been successful for us: Ariane 5 has been successful more than 70 flights in a row, and we have the lowest insurance rates in the business."
     Bruno, later in the panel, also questioned whether launch could be "commoditized" as other panelists suggested. "Commodities are tires, commodities are cars, commodities are items like that," he said. "None of those involve a million pounds of high explosive in a circumstance wh ere years of work, and hundreds of millions of dollars of investment, can disappear in a fiery ball in less than ten seconds."
     "Heavy lift will never be a commodity until there's a fundamentally different way of going to space," he added.
     SpaceX president Gwynne Shotwell disagreed. "If we say we can't do it, so we won't do it, I think that's a mistake," she said. Rocket launches today are a "significant emotional event," she acknowledged, "but I really look forward to the time when it's not that."
     That would be a transformation that goes beyond a company or even an industry to perhaps society in general.
    Jeff Foust (jeff@thespacereview.com (mailto:jeff@thespacereview.com)) is the editor and publisher of The Space Review, and a senior staff writer with SpaceNews (http://www.spacenews.com/). He also operates the Spacetoday.net (http://www.spacetoday.net/) web site. Views and opinions expressed in this article are those of the author alone.

    http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2971/1
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 30.04.2016 11:39:16
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    - а 230 т не много?
    Есть подозрение, что теперь это метановый аналог Мерлина.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 30.04.2016 16:28:04
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    - а 230 т не много?
    Есть подозрение, что теперь это метановый аналог Мерлина.
    -  о как ...  :o
    Хотя чо там, у меня были подозрения, что тот же Раптор мигрирует к ДОГГ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 03.05.2016 15:11:41
    106 пусков за 21 секунду:
    https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/726107315313737728
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA Подлинная учетная запись ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)
    So what do 106 successful ULA missions look like? Here's the short version. #106andCounting (https://twitter.com/hashtag/106andCounting?src=hash)
     10:54 - 29 апр. 2016 г.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 12.05.2016 17:09:12
    http://thehill.com/opinion/op-ed/279599-a-bridge-too-far-why-delta-rockets-arent-the-answer

    ЦитироватьA bridge too far: Why Delta rockets aren't the answer


    (http://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/blogs/rocketlaunch_010914getty.jpg?itok=ovTHf_y6)

    By Tory Bruno - 05/11/16 05:40 PM EDT

    When it comes to the future of national security space launch, everyone agrees on three things: competition is good, affordability is paramount and we must transition to all-American engines as soon as possible. 
    What no one agrees on, however, is the best way to achieve that third objective. But if you agree with the first two tenets, there's only one solution to the third, and that's to keep flying the Atlas V until the next-generation Vulcan Centaur rocket is ready. An Atlas "bridge" maintains assured access to space, strengthens competition, ensures the long-term health of the American launch industry and will save taxpayers more than $2 billion. 

    If you're just now joining this discussion, here's a quick primer: my company, United Launch Alliance, has been the Department of Defense's go-to partner for launches of the nation's most critical satellites for a decade. And we've delivered, with more than 100 consecutive successful launches. That's unprecedented in the history of launch. We have two rocket models: the Atlas V, which is powered by a Russian-made RD-180 engine, and the Delta IV, which has American engines but costs significantly more than Atlas. 
    We're now developing a new rocket, the powerful American Vulcan Centaur. When it debuts just three years from now, it will be the most versatile launch vehicle on the planet. 
    In the meantime, America still needs to get satellites into space and wants to facilitate competition for those opportunities among multiple providers. We believe the best path for the nation is to end the production of Delta so we can reduce our costs and to fly Atlas until Vulcan Centaur is ready. This is the most affordable way to perform upcoming launches while maintaining assured access to space. Flying Atlas also allows ULA to offer a competitive product on the commercial market at a time when we need commercial business to maintain rates, drive prices down and provide the funding for investment in our new launch vehicle.  
    Of course, the issue is that the Atlas uses a Russian-made engine. We agree wholeheartedly that it's time to transition to an American engine, and we're working tirelessly to field that new all-American vehicle in roughly half the time it's taken to develop previous rockets. We'll get there — we just need a little time and a smooth, predictable transition plan to make it happen. 
    Some say the answer is to retire the Atlas and fly Delta instead — after all, it has an American engine already built in. Here's why that's not a good answer for warfighters or taxpayers:
    It's too expensive: Delta is an amazing rocket, but it's costly to produce. Its burnt-orange foam insulation has to be applied by hand. Its production line is bigger and more complex than Atlas's. And its components are pricier. The Air Force estimates switching to an all-Delta fleet will cost taxpayers $2 billion or more. 
    It will stifle competition: Delta is unlikely to be cost-competitive on any but the heaviest of satellite payloads, which would effectively deny the Air Force the benefit of competitions on lower-end launches. Atlas, on the other hand, has already won a number of competitive commercial and civil space launches. If you want true competition, Atlas is the only answer. 
    It will put a damper on innovation: Forcing ULA to use Delta means it won't fly as many competitively-awarded launches, which will restrict the critical stream of funding that we need to develop the Vulcan Centaur. That will inevitably delay development of the new rocket, making warfighters wait that much longer for the introduction of new innovations. Atlas, on the other hand, keeps us on pace for a first flight in 2019 — again, that's twice as fast as historical development programs have moved. 
    If you believe that competition is good, and if you believe that affordability is paramount, an Atlas bridge is the only answer. The hardworking, innovative men and women of ULA are proud of their support to America's space launch capability. From GPS and missile warning to secure communications and weather prediction, we've launched the satellites the military intelligence community depends on for every mission — and we've done so with reliability no one can match. We're ready to continue that mission. Please ask Congress to create the smooth transition from Atlas to Vulcan Centaur that will keep America's launch industry healthy for decades to come. 
    Bruno is the president and chief executive officer of United Launch Alliance. 

    Я кстати уже давно читал на форумах, что основная причина дороговизны Дельты это наносимая вручную теплоизоляция.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 12.05.2016 13:32:50
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    основная причина дороговизны Дельты это наносимая вручную теплоизоляция.
    Вархаммер какой-то... А литании при этом не читают?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 12.05.2016 17:39:26
    Гы... наматывание теплоизоляции на простую цилиндрическую конструкцию никак нельзя автоматизировать?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 12.05.2016 18:06:11
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    Гы... наматывание теплоизоляции на простую цилиндрическую конструкцию никак нельзя автоматизировать?
    Почему наматывание? Там же пена. Баллончиками наверно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 13.05.2016 14:31:46
    https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/730916878646947840

    ЦитироватьMike Gruss‏@Gruss_SN (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)

    SASC allows for up to half of the Air Force's R&D budget for next-gen rocket to go toward offsetting costs of using Delta over Atlas.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 13.05.2016 12:06:37
    думаю что Бруно расскажет любые сказки, чтобы сохранить атлас
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 13.05.2016 16:20:48
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Почему наматывание? Там же пена. Баллончиками наверно.
    А что - мексиканских гастарбайтеров набрать нельзя? Обязательно квалифицированных инженеров задействовать?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 13.05.2016 16:34:44
    http://spacenews.com/mccains-committee-halves-hascs-rd-180-allowance/

    ЦитироватьThe Senate Armed Services Committee marked up its version of a defense authorization bill Thursday with language that lowers the limit on RD-180 engines United Launch Alliance can order for U.S. Air Force launches to 9, instead of the 18 in the House Armed Services Committee bill. (http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/sasc-sticks-to-its-guns-on-rd-180-rocket-engines)
    The Senate bill also includes language allowing the Air Force to spend up to half of the funding allocated for space propulsion work on launch vehicles like ULA's Delta 4 that do not use Russian engines but cost more than the Atlas 5.
    The committee argued that, with $1.2 billion budgeted for a replacement launch system from 2017 through 2021, there is more than enough money available to carry out that work and offset the costs of switching launches to the Delta 4. [SpacePolicyOnline]
    Meanwhile, Amendments to the House counterpart to that bill would relax restrictions on how the Air Force can spend funding for new launch systems. (http://spacenews.com/competing-amendments-relax-restrictions-on-air-force-rocket-funding/)
    The National Defense Authorization Act approved by the House Armed Services Committee last month requires the Air Force to spend no more than 25 percent of the funds authorized for space propulsion development on launch systems, with the rest going to develop of a new engine to replace the RD-180.
    Amendments submitted in advance of floor debate on the bill would raise that cap to 31 percent. Even the 25 percent cap is a change from the original stance by the chairman of the strategic forces subcommittee, Rep. Mike Rogers (R-Ala.), who originally sought to use the spending exclusively for engine development. [SpaceNews]
    Нешуточная драка за деньги. 

    Сенат предлагает потратить половину денег предназначенных на разработку двигателя для замены РД-180 на... "закупку ракет подобных Дельте-4, которые не используют российских двигателей, но стоят дороже Атласа-5". Ракеты дешевле Атласа-5 видимо покупать ни в коем случае нельзя.  :)
    Комитет по вооруженным силам в свою очередь таки согласился разрешить потратить 25% (а может даже 31%) денег не на двигатель, хотя собирался совсем это запретить. Сразу от троих Аэроджет отбиться не смог  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Василий Ратников от 13.05.2016 13:20:13
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:

    Сенат предлагает потратить половину денег предназначенных на разработку двигателя для замены РД-180 на... "закупку ракет подобных Дельте-4, которые не используют российских двигателей, но стоят дороже Атласа-5". Ракеты дешевле Атласа-5 видимо покупать ни в коем случае нельзя.
    финансирование чемоданами SpX как никогда было близко к провалу. (
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 20.05.2016 08:22:13
    http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2016/05/if-russia-selling-pentagon-should-keep-buying-rocket-engines/128405/?oref=d-river
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 23.05.2016 22:43:47
    ULA поимела аналог -конкурент в Европе официально?   ;)  
    Цитироватьhttp://bmpd.livejournal.com/1916023.html
    Компании Airbus Group и Safran создали совместное предприятие для разработки ракет-носителей

    Как пишет Michel Gabriol  в http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-finance/industrie/aeronautique-defense/airbus-et-safran-lancent-enfin-airbus-safran-launchers-568518.html  статье «Airbus et Safran lancent enfin Airbus Safran Launchers», опубликованной французской газетой La Tribune, компании Airbus Group и Safran с опозданием в несколько месяцев наконец подписали соглашение «второго этапа» о создании совместного предприятия на паритетных началах Airbus Safran Launchers (ASL). Обе компании объединят в новой фирме свои компетенции в области космических ракет-носителей, включая разработку новой ракеты-носителя Arianе 6, а также средств доставки ядерного оружия.


    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/325441.jpg)

    Проектное изображение перспективной европейской ракеты-носителя Ariane 6 (c) Agence France Presse

    На сегодняшний день известно, что сумма, которая должна выплатить Safran группе Airbus для компенсации стоимости пакета в этом СП, составляет примерно 800 млн евро. Кроме того, Airbus опасалась, что будет нести непропорциональную налоговую нагрузку, и соответствующее решение было найдено. 

    В рамках «первого этапа» сотрудничества в январе 2015 года Safran и Airbus создали общую структуру с целью реализации проекта создания ракеты-носителя Ariane 6. В нее были внесены контракты компаний в области гражданского сектора, первоначальная численность сотрудников составила 450 человек. В ходе «второй фазы» будут уже объединены производственные мощности, и в СП будут инкорпорированы военные программы. Тем самым Airbus Safran Launchers станет полноценной действующей компаний, с численностью сотрудников в 8500 человек. 

    Цель создания РН Ariane 6 состоит в снижении на 40-50% стоимости запуска по сравнению с Ariane 5. Компания Arianespace до конца текущего года планирует начать продажу этого РН, первый пуск которой запланирован на 2020 год. 

    Airbus Safran Launchers в августе 2015 года подписала контракт стоимостью 2,4 млрд евро на разработку РН Ariane 6 с Европейским космическим агентством (ESA). В рамках этого контракта будет разработано две модификации ракеты Ariane 6.2 и 6.4. Контракт будет действовать до достижения полной готовности ракет, которая запланирована на 2023 год. 

    В соответствии с договоренностью с правительством Франции, ASL, которой уже принадлежит 39% акций в компании Arianespace, должна выкупить 34,68% акций поставщика космических услуг у Национального центра космических исследований (CNES). Однако в феврале Европейская комиссия начала полномасштабное расследование. Брюссель до середины июля 2016 года должен дать оценку воздействия этой сделки на рынок космических запусков. Еврочиновники опасаются, что данная сделка может затормозить процесс инноваций и повысить цены на рынке космических пусков и спутников. 

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.05.2016 00:37:30
    Это кто ж так над Протоном поиздевался? :evil:
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 24.05.2016 07:47:36
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Это кто ж так над Протоном поиздевался?  :evil:
    Не такой простой вопрос, кстати - эта картинка еще в декабре 2014 встречается...
    http://www.lesoir.be/722980/article/actualite/sciences-et-sante/2014-12-02/l-europe-aura-sa-nouvelle-fusee-ariane-6-infographie
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Max Andriyahov от 24.05.2016 03:03:47
    А что не так? Масштаб на картинке?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 24.05.2016 09:15:01
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Это кто ж так над Протоном поиздевался?  :evil:  
    Похоже взяли версию из Kerbal Space Program :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.05.2016 16:39:24
    ЦитироватьMax Andriyahov пишет:
    А что не так? Масштаб на картинке?
    В википедию загляните. ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Сергей от 24.05.2016 17:03:15
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    Обе компании объединят в новой фирме свои компетенции в области космических ракет-носителей, включая разработку новой ракеты-носителя Arianе 6, а также средств доставки ядерного оружия.
    Интересные шляпки носила буржуазия. Франция решила обновить свои СЯС, используя итальянские разработки в области РДТТ, а заодно укрепиться в составе лидеров НАТО?  И если появятся БРСД наземного базирования, начнется очередная гонка вооружений, выход из договора о ликвидации РСМД и прочие неприятности.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 24.05.2016 16:18:20
    ЦитироватьСергей пишет:
    Интересные шляпки носила буржуазия. Франция решила обновить свои СЯС, используя итальянские разработки в области РДТТ, а заодно укрепиться в составе лидеров НАТО?И если появятся БРСД наземного базирования, начнется очередная гонка вооружений, выход из договора о ликвидации РСМД и прочие неприятности.
    - необязательно . Safran объединил практически всё дигателестроение, так что это могут быть турбореактивные для крылатых ракет .
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Сергей от 24.05.2016 17:42:04
    ЦитироватьСергей пишет:
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    Обе компании объединят в новой фирме свои компетенции в области космических ракет-носителей, включая разработку новой ракеты-носителя Arianе 6, а также средств доставки ядерного оружия.
    Интересные шляпки носила буржуазия. Франция решила обновить свои СЯС, используя итальянские разработки в области РДТТ, а заодно укрепиться в составе лидеров НАТО?И если появятся БРСД наземного базирования, начнется очередная гонка вооружений, выход из договора о ликвидации РСМД и прочие неприятности.
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    - необязательно . Safran объединил практически всё дигателестроение, так что это могут быть турбореактивные для крылатых ракет .
                   
                      
    Не вяжется...."ядерного оружия."  С крылатыми что, легче будет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 24.05.2016 15:42:32
    На момент подписания договора о РСМД они у Франции были, однако никто их не учитывал. С чего вдруг теперь кинутся выходить?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 24.05.2016 20:17:42
    Цитироватьfagot пишет:
    На момент подписания договора о РСМД они у Франции были, однако никто их не учитывал. С чего вдруг теперь кинутся выходить?
    Тогда у двух главных игроков они имелись в таких количествах, что прочими можно было пренебречь. А сейчас уже времена не те.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 17:36:21
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/330645.png)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 17:47:38
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/4jxrl4/if_russia_is_selling_the_pentagon_should_keep/d3i0fit

    ЦитироватьToryBruno (https://www.reddit.com/user/ToryBruno)ULA's President & CEO 3 points 20 hours ago 

    No. The RS68 is significantly MORE expenssive than the RD180
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 17:53:34
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/4jxrl4/if_russia_is_selling_the_pentagon_should_keep/d3i06n6

    ЦитироватьToryBruno (https://www.reddit.com/user/ToryBruno) 3 points 20 hours ago 

    Today, Atlas 401, the least capable Atlas, costs $164M per lift. This price is coming down each day.
    Vulcan-Centaur 40X will be sub $100M.
    Delta, at 30% more than Atlas, is not competitive in the market place
    The National Security Market will collapse from 8 to 10 lifts per year to around 5 per year during the transition window from Atlas to Vulcan, then recovering in the mid to late 2020s.
    Those NSS missions will be split between ULA and Space X. To be economicly viable, a launch provider needs to perform around 10 launches per year.
    We will win our share of the NSS missions along with the required balance from other competitive missions
    Delta, and the cost its infrastructure drives into our entire business, is not able to compete.
    Therefore, we will continue competing with and flying Atlas until the American engine is available.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 17:58:30
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/4jxrl4/if_russia_is_selling_the_pentagon_should_keep/d3hlfj7

    ЦитироватьToryBruno (https://www.reddit.com/user/ToryBruno) 6 points 1 day ago 

    RD180s account for 0.6% of imports from Russia. Lobster imports are more than double this.
    We have the RD180 because the Gov asked us to in order to keep the tech from going to North Korea and Iran after the end of the Cold War. Clinton through Obama reaffirmed that policy until Russia invaded Crimea.
    It's now time to move back to an American engine. Going as fast as possible. Getting this done in about half the normal time.
    An abrubt ban of RD180, imposed before the American engine is ready, would end Atlas, ground our own National Security Satellites and kill competition just as it is beginning.
    США импортирует (из России?) омаров на сумму в 2 раза большую, чем РД-180 :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 25.05.2016 18:38:28
    "Today, Atlas 401, the least capable Atlas, costs $164M per lift. This price is coming down each day. "  - я думал 120, оказывается все 164  :(


    "Delta, at 30% more than Atlas, is not competitive in the market place " - блин, как у него 164 компетитив, а 213 нет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 25.05.2016 23:03:31
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    блин, как у него 164 компетитив, а 213 нет?
    Вопрос точки зрения...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 22:08:04
    Я больше удивлен ценой RS-68 больше 30 млн.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 25.05.2016 21:39:30
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Я больше удивлен ценой RS-68 больше 30 млн.
    Это же простой и дешевый ЖРД. Будь он сложными дорогим, стоил бы 60 млн. :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 25.05.2016 19:41:20
    я кроме фразы "No. The RS68 is significantly MORE expenssive than the RD180" не нашел цифр. а rs-25 сейчас по сколько идет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 25.05.2016 23:28:49
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Я больше удивлен ценой RS-68 больше 30 млн.
    RL10 за 30 лимонов Вас не удивляет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: knezevolk от 25.05.2016 23:32:16
    silentpom, вроде во время дебатов всплывала цифра, что запуск Дельты 4 с RS-68 стоит на $50 млн. дороже, чем Атлас-5 с РД.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 23:51:42
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    я кроме фразы "No. The RS68 is significantly MORE expenssive than the RD180" не нашел цифр. а rs-25 сейчас по сколько идет?
    30 млн стоит РД-180. RS-25 кажется после восстановления производства обещали около 50 млн. Плюс ~1 млрд на само восстановление.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 25.05.2016 23:54:52
    Масипусик:
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/31158.jpg) Aerojet Rocketdyne ‏@AerojetRdyne  (https://twitter.com/AerojetRdyne)  
    (4/4) For scale, check out our RS-68 compared to the employee working on it @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) #DeltaIV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DeltaIV?src=hash)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158418.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 25.05.2016 23:56:51
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Я больше удивлен ценой RS-68 больше 30 млн.
    RL10 за 30 лимонов Вас не удивляет?
    Нет к этому я уже привык :)

    Но RS-68, открытая схема, абляционное охлаждение сопла, вот это вот все! Раньше в интернетах встречалась цена 14-20 млн.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 25.05.2016 23:58:39
    А размерчик? ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.05.2016 00:00:30
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Но RS-68, открытая схема, абляционное охлаждение сопла, вот это вот все! Раньше в интернетах встречалась цена 14-20 млн.
    Дык и РД-180 когда-то 10 лимонов стоил.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 26.05.2016 04:47:10
    Цитироватьknezevolk пишет:
    silentpom , вроде во время дебатов всплывала цифра, что запуск Дельты 4 с RS-68 стоит на $50 млн. дороже, чем Атлас-5 с РД.
    можно считать, что Бруно назвал цену на дельту-4. но я не вижу метода, как из этой цифры найти стоимость двигателя
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: knezevolk от 26.05.2016 13:55:45
    silentpom, из статьи 2006 года:

    ЦитироватьThe RS-68, at roughly $14 million per copy, is cheaper to manufacture, but it does not have the SSME's track record. 

     - See more at: http://www.space.com/2171-nasa-eyes-alternative-shuttle-main-engine-heavylift.html
    На NSF жонглируют (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=2623.msg37556) разными цифрами, от 12 до 20 млн. Но теме уже тоже 10 лет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 26.05.2016 11:03:04
    обратно, из стоимости RS-68 никак не вытекает стоимость дельты. Так что сравнивать стоимость RS-68 и РД-180 - занятие малополезное
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 26.05.2016 14:05:54
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    обратно, из стоимости RS-68 никак не вытекает стоимость дельты. Так что сравнивать стоимость RS-68 и РД-180 - занятие малополезное
    Тори прямо сказал, что RS-68 дороже, чем РД-180.

    ЦитироватьThe RS68 is significantly MORE expenssive than the RD180
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 26.05.2016 11:22:58
    я читал это. но
    1) significantly MORE у него значит все что угодно,  пресловутые 30% например
    2) разница в стоимости ракет обеспечивается не только разностью стоимости двигателей

    все что говорит этот персонаж можно уложить в два слова "дайте рд-180"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 26.05.2016 17:27:47
    Тут уж на личное усмотрение каждого, сколько это "значительно дороже"  :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 10.06.2016 01:14:53
    СМИ: SpaceX платила Маккейну за отказ от российских ракетных двигателей:
    http://ria.ru/world/20160609/1445154413.html#ixzz4B6qHqfhr
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: avmich от 10.06.2016 11:59:58
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    СМИ: SpaceX платила Маккейну за отказ от российских ракетных двигателей:
     http://ria.ru/world/20160609/1445154413.html#ixzz4B6qHqfhr
    Читаю статью:
    ЦитироватьКак стало известно порталу OpenSecrets.com (http://opensecrets.com/), который занимается поиском источников финансирования предвыборных кампаний на федеральном уровне в США, SpaceX пожертвовала политической кампании Маккейна 10 тысяч долларов, а также внесла около 25 тысяч долларов в институт его имени в Университете Аризоны.
    Иду к первоисточнику...
    Цитироватьhttp://opensecrets.com/
           
    Contact the owner of OpenSecrets.com (http://forms.contactwebsiteowner.com/form/52500988405962?youHave=opensecrets.com)
        

     
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    Источник выглядит довольно сомнительно :( .

    (Хотя, честно говоря, подозреваю, что СпейсЭкс вполне такую поддержку может осуществлять. В Штатах это легально и обычно...)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 10.06.2016 09:42:38
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    СМИ: SpaceX платила Маккейну за отказ от российских ракетных двигателей:
     http://ria.ru/world/20160609/1445154413.html#ixzz4B6qHqfhr
    Боянъ (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum9/topic13763/message1476102/#message1476102)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 10.06.2016 07:35:40
    не, ну старик жалкие 10 тонн отработал на совесть
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 15.06.2016 16:48:00
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)  18 ч.18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/742797654120386560)  
    McCain: "I supported this compromise because it contains a legislative cutoff date for the use of Russian rocket engines."
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)  22 ч.22 часа назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/742746388325400577)  
    Here's Sen. Shelby on the RD-180 agreement:
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158423.jpg)
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)  22 ч.22 часа назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/742742367862697985)  
    Looks like #FY17NDAA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FY17NDAA?src=hash) gives Air Force access to 18 RD-180 rocket engines through 2022; requires certification $$ does not violate sanctions.
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185455.jpg) Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN)  22 ч.22 часа назад (https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/742737219560083456)  
    I'm told the Nelson amendment on RD-180s includes a "substantial modification" to original proposal. #FY17NDAA (https://twitter.com/hashtag/FY17NDAA?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: napalm от 15.06.2016 20:04:28
    Т.е. МакКейн голосовал за?   ;)  
    И все-таки забавно..
    -"Закупка РД-180 угрожает национальной безопасности!"
    -"Отказ от закупки РД-180 угрожает национальной безопасности!"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 15.06.2016 19:39:31
    Цитироватьnapalm пишет:
    Т.е. МакКейн голосовал за?  ;)  
    И все-таки забавно..
    -"Закупка РД-180 угрожает национальной безопасности!"
    -"Отказ от закупки РД-180 угрожает национальной безопасности!"
    Компромисс: "РД-180 угрожает национальной безопасности" :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Василий Ратников от 15.06.2016 16:49:52
    Бизнесмены от бюджета и прикормленные ими чиновники вечно отождествляют национальную безопасность и свой карман )
    только если у нас альтернативы нет, то США повезло у них она есть.

    а так конечно смешно смотреть на этот балаган в попытках не лишить ULA бюджетной кормушки.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 30.06.2016 13:37:01
    А вы говорите Маск фантазер. Тут целая ULA Центавр на колесиках рисует.  :)  

    Inside ULA's Plan to Have 1,000 People Working in Space by 2045 (http://www.space.com/33297-satellite-refueling-business-proposal-ula.html)



    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/234383.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 30.06.2016 16:18:06
    Спасибо, надо статью в тему по заправкам
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 30.06.2016 17:28:51
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    Спасибо, надо статью в тему по заправкам
    Было уже

    http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Commercial_Space/SSP_12_15_sowers.pdf

    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/63929)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 01.07.2016 03:58:53
    ЦитироватьВасилий Ратников пишет:
    Бизнесмены от бюджета и прикормленные ими чиновники вечно отождествляют национальную безопасность и свой карман )
    только если у нас альтернативы нет, то США повезло у них она есть.

    Конечно есть! Идее не покупать РД-180 есть альтернатива - покупать РД-180  :D
    А старичку МкКейну показали на место. Пошумел, бабки отработал - свободен. У сенаторов тоже есть иерархия.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 30.06.2016 19:10:11
    ЦитироватьNot пишет:
    Идее не покупать РД-180 есть альтернатива - покупать РД-180 :D
    Ничто не вечно... Интересно - переживет ли РД-180 Атлас-5? И сколько им еще осталось...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 01.07.2016 04:44:10
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    ЦитироватьNot пишет:
    Идее не покупать РД-180 есть альтернатива - покупать РД-180  :D  
    Ничто не вечно... Интересно - п ереживет ли РД-180 Атлас-5? И сколько им еще осталось...
    Ровно столько, сколько потребуется для создания замены, если такая замена конечно появится. В американском правительстве решения принимают прожженые материалисты, для которых отказаться от международных обязательств - раз плюнуть, если это ухудшает национальную безопасность США. Принятие решения о закупке продукта в нарушение санкций как раз из этой области.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 30.06.2016 18:36:12
    замена называется фалкон-9. и ULA с ее проституцией с дельтой нагнут
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 01.07.2016 03:46:05
    ЦитироватьNot пишет:
    В американском правительстве решения принимают прожженые материалисты, для которых отказаться от международных обязательств - раз плюнуть, если это ухудшает национальную безопасность США. Принятие решения о закупке продукта в нарушение санкций как раз из этой области.
    ЕМНИП закон о санкциях предполагает не полный и безусловный запрет, а специальный разрешительный режим.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 07.07.2016 15:31:07
    http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39827.0

    ЦитироватьI think ULA can only be successful if SpaceX does fail. The opposite isn't true. SpaceX controls their own destiny. They can be successful regardless of what ULA does.

    If Falcon Heavy launches successfully, and SpaceX can perfect booster reuse to bring launch costs down even further, and they can increase their launch tempo, it will be very hard for ULA to compete with that. ULA is lowering costs, but they aren't even trying to achieve anything close to a $60 million price point per launch.

    Also, SpaceX can shrug off a few launch failures here and there. ULA can't even really afford one. And it is unrealistic to think that ULA can maintain a 100% successful launch rate forever. Eventually an Atlas, Delta, or Vulcan is going to fail. 

    ULA is going to be losing a lot of knowledge and experience with the upcoming voluntary  and involuntary layoffs. Decades-worth of knowledge transfer can't happen overnight. So ULA will be left with a lot of young engineers who dont really know that much about launching rockets.  With the younger generation of workers, I get the feeling that they currently take for granted how fragile a rocket really is. They feel that the Atlas is invincible. That's the impression that I get anyway. The older generation knows better. They've been through launch failures. There is no complacency with them. I already am seeing lapses in discipline, lack of adherence to process, and a general absence of technical rigor with the younger engineers. Who will mentor them?

    ЦитироватьThanks, I appreciate that.  Given my salary grade there's a decent chance I will be caught up in the RIF.  A lot of good, knowledgeable, experienced people will be RIF'd either involuntarily or by choice.

    I can go on a long rant about how our parent companies have stifled innovation for the sake of easy profit.  Maybe some other time.

    ЦитироватьI wouldn't work at SpaceX simply because I have three kids and the standard work week there is >80 hours, so I would never see my family.  Also the cost of living is much higher in L.A. and SpaceX pays considerably less.  But that's just me.  I imagine some others might consider it, but probably not too many.  Realistic options near Denver would be Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, Ball, or going into a different industry. I don't know what the situation is like at other sites.
    ЦитироватьTory is not concerned with work-life balance.  Many engineers in Denver have been on mandatory overtime for 1-2 years now.  With the shrinking workforce, the work load will only go up.  It will be difficult to maintain reliability with so many experienced people being shown the door.
    ЦитироватьTory is not doing it gradually, he's doing it in two major RIF cycles.  And then he's going out and hiring young, inexperienced workers.  He is not trying to keep the most talented and valuable of the older employees.  The older employees are the ones being targeted.  I myself know of several who were given notice the other day.  Since they were involuntarily laid off, they do not have to complete any kind of transition plan for their jobs.  So, their knowledge and experience are just going out the door.  The new, younger employees will need guidance and mentoring and they aren't going to get it.  Also, the really talented college graduates are going to SpaceX, who are much more selective in who they hire.
    ЦитироватьMorale is higher for those working on Vulcan and advanced programs.  However, morale overall (especially for those working on Atlas and Delta) is at an all-time low for ULA.  People are openly expressing their displeasure with ULA and with senior leadership, and even doing so in front of the summer interns (who are taking notice and commenting on the low morale and depressing work environment).  The honeymoon for Tory has worn off and a lot of people have lost faith in him.
    ЦитироватьJun 25, 2016

    "I was looking forward to this internship this summer, it's been sadly disappointing. It's a toxic work environment."
    Current Intern - enguneering in Denver, CO
    Doesn't Recommend
    Negative Outlook
    Disapproves of CEO

    I have been working at United Launch Alliance as an intern (Less than a year)

    Pros

    Every other Friday is off, Denver is a great city...that's all I can think of. Staff members are smart individuals.

    Cons

    They're laying off senior engineers and hiring at the entry level. 25 % of the work force is getting laid off the next two years. Everything this company does is second rate and 3-5 years behind space x (Vulcan will not launch till late 2019 at best...falcon 9 is currently getting certified for defense launches and falcon heavy is launching later this year). If you want to work in this industry work for space x.

    Morale is incredibly low...everyone is looking over their shoulder. Even though they're hiring most of the interns there is no way I would ever work here. It has been very strange only being here for a month and seeing people who have been here for decades bring fired or forced into retirement.

    Advice to Management

    Stop firing your engineers and replacing them with entry levels...that isn't the right way to save money.
    ЦитироватьThe mood in Galileo is really depressing.  Fr om what I can tell, things are even worse in Newton wh ere most of the engineers work.  As for me, my morale has been low for quite a while and I just don't see things getting any better.  I'm leaving ULA soon, so hopefully my situation will improve.  It's worth noting that there are still some people who are content to work here, they believe in Tory and have hope that things will get better.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: frigate от 08.07.2016 23:20:45
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    ЦитироватьSeerndv пишет:
    Спасибо, надо статью в тему по заправкам
    Было уже

     http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Commercial_Space/SSP_12_15_sowers.pdf

    У Локхида-Мартина до отмены Сonstellation было нечто похожее, смахивающее на огромную СТРЕКОЗУ!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.07.2016 10:20:06
    http://www.satellitetoday.com/publications/st/2016/07/20/ula-ceo-path-vulcan-clear/

    ЦитироватьULA CEO: the Path to Vulcan is Clear

    By Caleb Henry (http://www.satellitetoday.com/author/caleb-henry/) | July 20, 2016

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/102013.jpg)

    Digital rendering of the Vulcan Centaur rocket. Photo: ULA


    Following approval by the United States Congress earlier this month of the 2017 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), United Launch Alliance (ULA) President and CEO Tory Bruno now feels the company will have a sufficient number of RD-180 engines to transition smoothly to a domestic alternative. The current NDAA going into conference allows for 18 additional engines — amended up from an initial nine engines — which, combined with ULA's previous allotment, brings the total number of approved additional engines to 22.
    Bruno told Via Satellite that this supply of engines is enough for the company to move forward with its transition plan in confidence. The company's flagship launch vehicle, the Atlas 5, flies about twice as often as the lesser used and more expensive Delta family, but its Russian-built engine has been the source of controversy for nearly two years after the U.S. introduced sanctions on Russia for it's bellicose annexation of Crimea. The path to Vulcan, ULA's American-made successor to both the Atlas 5 and Delta family, was obfuscated by disagreements over how many RD-180 engines the company should need before a U.S. alternative would be available. Now, Bruno said that path is clear.


    "We are very pleased with the Senate and the House taking the time to understand it and to do the right thing," said Bruno. "This bridge will get us there. We are doing this very fast — this engine and rocket development that we are now in the middle of is going to be done in about half the normal span, and allow us to get off the venerable RD-180 rocket engine and onto an all-American solution."
    ULA has been pursuing Vulcan in the midst of this ambiguity, completing the Preliminary Design Review (PDR) in December 2015. The next major milestone is determining what engine will replace the RD-180. Washington-based Blue Origin is developing the BE-4, a privately funded Liquid Oxygen (Lox) and Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) engine capable of 550,000 pounds of thrust (lbf); and California-based Aerojet Rocketdyne is creating the AR1, a government-supported Lox/Kerosene (RP-1) engine capable of 500,000lbf. Either replacement will require two engines to match the power of the RD-180. Blue Origin claims its engine, already four years into development, will be flight qualified by 2017, while Aerojet Rocketdyne, having started its development later, says the AR1 will be flight qualified by 2019. Bruno said ULA would make its decision soon.
    "Sometime close to the end of the year we are going to down-select, and then move into our Critical Design Review (CDR) and start manufacturing the rocket," he said.
    Beyond just creating a new launch system, with Vulcan ULA intends to halve its cost of launching, based on the Atlas 5 price point. This tactic is not only to enable ULA to be more competitive in launches for National Security Space (NSS) missions, now that SpaceX is a competitor, but to also tap into the commercial market. Bruno said the majority of ULA's missions today are for the U.S. Air Force, followed by NASA, and then the commercial sector. He declined to say how many commercial missions ULA hopes to launch per year in the future. This year the company has 14 missions in total, four of which — two for Orbital ATK, one for DigitalGlobe and one for EchoStar— are commercial.
    Bruno said fielding one launch system instead of two dissimilar rockets will lower prices by making the company more efficient. Two other big steps ULA is taking now are reducing span times — how long it takes to assemble a rocket, integrate it with the payload and launch — and supply chain expenses. Bruno said ULA has reduced the amount of time needed at a launch site from 50 days to 20, and similarly streamlined the manufacturing days needed from about 500 to around 225. Furthermore, the company has dropped more than a third of its supply chain costs.
    "A little less than two thirds of our cost is in supply chain," explained Bruno. "We have gone out and done deals with our suppliers, consolidated, and really worked that supply chain to the point that today we have taken 36 percent of cost out of our supply chain. I expect to take more than 40 percent out by the time we are done and actually offering the Vulcan Centaur and later Vulcan Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage (ACES) configurations."


    Vulcan Centaur, the first configuration of Vulcan, is designed more similarly to the Atlas 5, replacing the RD-180 with the BE-4s or AR1s and using the Aerojet Rocketdyne-supplied Centaur upper stage. Up to four or six Solid Rocket Boosters (SRBs) can augment the 4-meter and 5-meter diameter payload fairing versions of Vulcan, respectively, depending on mission needs. Vulcan Centaur's maiden flight is planned for 2019, while the next iteration, Vulcan ACES is scheduled for 2023. Vulcan ACES is ULA's replacement for the Delta 4 Heavy, which lifts the U.S. government's largest spacecraft. However, while the transition from Atlas 5 to Vulcan Centaur is feeling the pressure of government urgency, the shift from Delta 4 Heavy to Vulcan ACES is pending long-lead government needs.

    "I have promised the government that we are going to do an orderly transition because [Delta 4 Heavy] carries very special satellites for the government that don't come around that often. They are very unique, typically high value, and it would be pretty disruptive in the middle of their development to ask them to redesign and be able to be hosted on a different rocket. We are working with them on exactly the timing for when we will transition that to our Vulcan ACES solution," said Bruno.
    He added that ULA will likely end up building the cores for the Delta 4 Heavy out early at the same time as the last of the Delta Medium cores, and then store them for when the government needs them, but this is subject to change.
    ACES, unlike a typical upper stage, can operate in space for a week or more and, with refueling, could potentially last years. Bruno said the stage will enable a myriad of new and different space missions.

    "Because of the ultra-long duration operating time of ACES, it makes it practical to shatter this paradigm of one completely self-contained satellite on one rocket fitting under its nose faring," he said. "We can actually do more complicated things in space. With distributed lift, we can take a payload up that is so heavy, we can barely get to Low Earth Orbit (LEO) with our biggest Vulcan-ACES rocket — even though that's not it's ultimate destination — and then we can lift up another rocket that's nothing but fuel, transfer that fuel to the ACES, since it's reusable and refuelable in space, and then at that point, once you're in LEO, you're pretty much two thirds to anywhere in the Solar System. So then we can take that gigantic spacecraft and take it anywhere else."
    Once the stages are launched, he said ULA plans to keep them in orbit, building out a fleet of "space trucks" on orbit that could do missions such as repairing, refueling and relocating satellites. Bruno said ULA has a long-term vision for a self-sustaining cis-lunar economy that includes commercial habitats, space mining, manufacturing and other future businesses that ACES would play a critical role in enabling.


    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.07.2016 08:39:44
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185623.jpg) Tory Bruno Подлинная учетная запись ‏@torybruno  (https://twitter.com/torybruno)  
    Interesting InfoGraphic showing Mighty Atlas' gestation period
     (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoOuzjYVUAA6t6m.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.07.2016 08:40:33
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67521.jpg) Stephen Clark ‏@StephenClark1  (https://twitter.com/StephenClark1)  
    NASA's Jim Green: Atlas 5 rocket selected for Mars rover launch in summer of 2020.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.08.2016 01:10:56
    http://spacenews.com/u-s-air-force-plans-to-buy-2-delta-4-heavy-rockets-for-nro-missions/
    ЦитироватьNo complaint from SpaceX as Air Force skips competition for pair of NRO missions
    by Mike Gruss (http://spacenews.com/author/mike-gruss/) — August 8, 2016
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155633.jpg)
    A Delta 4 Heavy rocket carrying a payload for the National Reconnaissance Office lifts off June 11 from Cape Canaveral Air Force Station. (Screen grab: United Launch Alliance.)  
     
    WASHINGTON – The U.S. Air Force said it plans to award United Launch Alliance a sole-source contract to build and launch two Delta 4 Heavy rockets for National Reconnaissance Office between 2020 and 2023, according to an Aug. 4 announcement,
    The launches appear to be the first sole-source awards outside of ULA's $11 billion block buy deal with the Air Force, sources said. That contract, which was awarded in 2013, includes production of 36 new Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rocket cores and launch services for vehicles ordered as long ago as 1998.
    The Air Force did not announce a contract value, but ULA previously has said a Delta 4 Heavy rocket costs about $350 million, suggesting the contract could be worth roughly $700 million.
    The announcement comes as the Air Force is working to re-introduce competition into the national security launch industry. In April, SpaceX won the first of nine launch contracts the Defense Department intends to put out for bid in the next three years.
    But in this case, in a pre-solicitation notice posted to the Federal Business Opportunities website Aug. 4, the Air Force said it opted for a sole-source contract for classified National Reconnaissance Office missions slated to launch in 2020 and 2023. The NRO builds and operates the country's spy satellites.
    The Air Force said it chose ULA due to the timing and complexity of the integration of the satellites to the rockets, unique requirements, and the need to have a certified launch vehicle by the award date.
    ULA is "currently the only responsible source," the notice said.
    The conventional wisdom within industry and within the Defense Department has been that ULA's Delta 4 Heavy rocket would compete against SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rocket for such launches. The Falcon Heavy is expected to make its long-awaited maiden launch later this year and could earn certification from the Air Force to launch national security payloads as early as 2017.
    But SpaceX, which sued the Air Force in federal court in 2014 for the right to compete for national security missions, said it understood the Air Force's decision.
    "These particular missions had very specific technical requirements," John Taylor, a SpaceX spokesman said in an email to SpaceNews. "We worked closely with the DoD and the USAF on this action and decided jointly it was the right approach."
    Jessica Rye, a ULA spokeswoman, referred questions to the NRO.
    In its announcement, the Defense Department said it plans to award a formal contract for the first mission, known as NROL-82, later this year for a 2020 launch. It also plans to award a contract for the second mission, known as NROL-91, in late 2017 with a tentative launch date of 2023. Because NRO payloads are classified, very few details about the launch is publicly released.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.08.2016 01:22:18
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185659.jpg) James Dean ‏@flatoday_jdean  (https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean)  1 ч1 час назад (https://twitter.com/flatoday_jdean/status/768917804066013185)  
    NASA awards ULA $243 million contract to launch the Mars 2020 rover on an Atlas V 541 rocket from Cape Canaveral.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 29.08.2016 22:53:48
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg) Tory Bruno Подлинная учетная запись ‏@torybruno  (https://twitter.com/torybruno)
    Fun InfoGraphic on ULA's Navy
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/158742.jpg)
      10:07 - 29 авг. 2016 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.09.2016 00:48:53
    Все 65 пусков Atlas V:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsBejxqWEAA2J51.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 14.09.2016 15:55:29
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-announces-rapidlaunch.aspx
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Announces RapidLaunch™, the Industry's Fastest Order to Launch Service
    RapidLaunch™ Offers Launch in as Little as Three Months

    Centennial, Colo. (Sept. 13, 2016) – United Launch Alliance (ULA) announced a new, revolutionary service called RapidLaunch™ which provides the customer the fastest schedule from the initial order to launch service in the industry today.

    "The priorities of all of our customers include ensuring their spacecraft launches on schedule, securing the soonest possible manifest date and completing the mission with 100 percent success," said Tory Bruno, ULA CEO and president. "To address these priorities, we have been working on this offering for more than a year, which allows our customers to launch in as few as three months from placing their order."

    RapidLaunch™ is designed to transform the nature of launch acquisition, contracting, and integration. More importantly, it provides the power to transform satellite operators' fleet management and operations.

    "We have availability on our Atlas V manifest in 2017," said Kent Lietzau, ULA's vice president of Business Development. "This service is fast and comprehensive. Our experience base launching all major platforms means confidence for your mission."

    ULA offers schedule certainty allowing on time on-orbit revenue, unmatched reliability with the lowest insurance in the industry, and orbit optimization to extend the lifetime of your spacecraft. In addition to the contracted launch date for your mission, ULA can also assign your spacecraft as a backup to an earlier mission in the event that the earlier mission needs to move, your spacecraft can be pulled forward into that launch slot.

    "To accommodate our RapidLaunch™ customers, we have added additional hardware to the production line, so that we can offer additional vehicles without an impact to our existing customers," said Lietzau. "We have also moved customization for any particular launch to the last three months of production."

    "ULA is transforming the future of space launch, making it more affordable and accessible for our customers," said Bruno. "New, innovative services like RapidLaunch™ are just one way that we are making that future vision a reality."  

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 100 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 22.09.2016 16:59:25
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/boeing-lockheed-venture-raises-spacex-explosion-in-fight-over-pentagon-contract/2016/09/21/b6907fa8-7f7e-11e6-9070-5c4905bf40dc_story.html
     
    ЦитироватьBoeing-Lockheed venture raises SpaceX explosion in fight over Pentagon contract    
    By Christian Davenport (http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/christian-davenport) September 21 at 8:49 PM
     
    The recent explosion of a SpaceX rocket should raise concerns about going with the lowest bidder on sensitive national security launch contracts, the chief executive of the United Launch Alliance wrote in a letter to top Pentagon officials earlier this month.
    Tory Bruno, ULA's chief executive, urged the Air Force to postpone the deadline for bids, saying it should take time to explore the impact of SpaceX's rocket failure while also taking into account both companies' experience and past performance.
    The Pentagon should have particular reservations, Bruno wrote, given that two of SpaceX's Falcon 9 rockets have blown up, which he said "serve as a reminder of the complexity and hazards intrinsic to space launch services."
    "This strategy defies both law and logic and puts hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars and Warfighter mission needs unnecessarily at risk," he wrote.
    The letter, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, is the latest salvo in one of Washington's most contentious contractor feuds, one that has pitted a pair of the world's most powerful defense contractors against a brash billionaire looking to shake up a calcified market by offering launches for far less money. And it's the most glaring example yet of a competitor going after SpaceX for the two explosions.
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/141946.jpg) An explosion on the launch site of a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket is shown in this still image from video in Cape Canaveral, Florida, U.S. September 1, 2016. (Handout/Reuters)  
     
    The Air Force did not immediately respond to requests for comment. SpaceX declined to comment.
    For a decade, ULA, the joint venture between Lockheed Martin and Boeing, had a monopoly on launching national security satellites for the Pentagon. But then SpaceX, the hard-charging company founded by tech entrepreneur Elon Musk, sued the Air Force for the right to compete, saying it could save taxpayers millions of dollars. The parties settled, and last year the Air Force granted SpaceX the certification to compete, saying it had met its rigorous technical standards.
    ULA fired its chief executive and hired Bruno, who vowed to "literally transform the company" for it to compete against SpaceX, which had already won contracts from NASA to fly cargo and eventually astronauts to the International Space Station.
    But faced with competition for the first time, ULA declined to bid on the first of the contested contracts last year, saying, among other things, that the Air Force was giving too much weight to the price companies bid.
    The emphasis on price — and not experience and past performance — put ULA at a disadvantage, the company said.
    SpaceX then walked away with the $82.7 million contract, the first of nine launches to be competitively bid, at a price far less than the Air Force had been paying ULA. Lt. Gen. Samuel Greaves cheered the service's new partner, saying in a statement last month that the Air Force hopes "to continue fostering competition in order to promote innovation and reduce cost to the taxpayer while maintaining our laser focus on mission success."
    But two of SpaceX's rockets have exploded in spectacular fireballs, raising concerns about their reliability and safety. One of its rockets blew up last year while carrying $118 million worth of cargo to the space station. Earlier this month, a rocket blew up during fueling before an engine test and a $195 million satellite was destroyed.
    The Air Force is part of the investigation into the most recent failure, but officials have said the explosion has not affected SpaceX's certification.
    In his letter to Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James and Frank Kendall, the Pentagon's chef weapons buyer, Bruno sought to contrast his company's long record of accomplishment with its relatively new competitor. He trumpeted ULA's 111 consecutive successful launches on its Atlas and Delta rockets. And he wrote that the company has a long heritage of delivering "into precise orbits some of the most sensitive and valuable national security payloads directly supporting our country's Warfighters — and it has done so with unprecedented dependability and mission success."
    Focusing so heavily on price is only appropriate when the "risk of unsuccessful contract performance is minimal," he wrote. And the recent SpaceX explosion "reminds us that the risk associated with space launch service contracts is well beyond 'minimal.' "
    The criteria used by the Air Force in the contract to launch its GPS III satellite "relegates technical performance to an afterthought, favoring price as the determining evaluation factor — a purchasing strategy befitting perhaps of basic commodity contracting services, not the 'incredible challenge' of spaceflight."
    Bruno urged the Air Force to push back the deadline for bids by 60­ days so that it could "explore the nature and impact" of SpaceX's failure and also ensure that it "adequately factors" criteria such as "reliability, schedule certainty and past performance." And he hinted that the fight may not be over, saying ULA's concerns "could conceivably be litigated in a courtroom."
    Despite the plea, the Air Force proceeded with the bids, which were due Monday. This time, ULA said it submitted a bid.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 22.09.2016 23:55:11
    http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/2016/09/20/ula-competes-spacex-gps-satellite-launch/90747848/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quооndo от 23.09.2016 13:12:30
    а что ULA собирается делать с Атласами через 5 лет после появления Вулканов?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.10.2016 23:45:37
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust ‏@jeff_foust  (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust)  4 мин.4 минуты назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/786665588668104706)  
    Holguin, on ULA-SpaceX competition: we're not mortal enemies; not trying to kill each other. All of us working to same goal. #ISPCS2016 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ISPCS2016?src=hash)
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust ‏@jeff_foust  (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust)  54 мин.54 минуты назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/786653060357431296)  
    McAlister: impressed with ULA in how they're transforming that company and investing in new technologies. #ISPCS2016 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ISPCS2016?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 16.11.2016 18:52:52
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust ‏@jeff_foust  (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust)  48 мин.48 минут назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/798903773552734208)  
    Collins: easy to sell launches for $60M each if you can sell 40 launches a year; we tried that with Delta vehicle in 90s. #SpaceComExpo (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceComExpo?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 29.11.2016 12:17:25
    Тори Бруно на реддите:

    https://www.reddit.com/user/ToryBruno

    ЦитироватьDecatur was sized for 40 Delta's per year.
    The content of those 40 was also intended to be > 60% buy, meaning that less than 40% of the 40 rocket's content was to be manufactured in Decatur with the rest in the supply chain.
    Decatur has around twice the square footage as Hawthorn
    So, yeah... its a lot less crowded.
    This will be helpful as we overlap Atlas, Delta-Heavy and Vulcan during the transition.
    It is also enabling our effort to bring content and suppliers inside our walls. For example, RUAG is now occupying space inside Decatur to build our composite structures (bringing jobs from overseas to the US, BTW)

    ЦитироватьYes. We have giant bridge mills in Decatur that mill the isogrid into aluminum plates.
    These are then "bump pressed" into the tank's radius on massive hydraulic break presses. 4 of these are welded together to form the propellant tanks.
    We also have North America's largest chemical treatment facility within Decatur's walls.
    ЦитироватьHonestly, the original price for our base Rocket (AtlasV 401) was more like $184M. Much, much lower now. On its way to sub $100M
    ЦитироватьYes. The first day of the block buy, it was $184M. In the block buy, ULA committed to an average price across all in that buy of $164. Which means that they would be less than $164M by the end in order to average out to the target.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 29.11.2016 12:51:51
    "We have giant bridge mills in Decatur that mill the isogrid into aluminum plates. 
    These are then "bump pressed" into the tank's radius on massive hydraulic break presses. 4 of these are welded together to form the propellant tanks"   - кто нить может пояснить как другие сваривают баки?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 30.11.2016 00:17:37
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-to-unveil-website-to-transform.aspx
    ЦитироватьULA to Unveil Website to Transform How Launch Services are Sel ected
    ULA CEO Tory Bruno to Announce Details and Transparent Launch Pricing

    November 30, 2016 -- 9:30 a.m. Eastern Time

    What: Media are invited to participate in a news conference on Wednesday, Nov. 30, at 9:30 a.m. ET, during which United Launch Alliance (ULA) CEO Tory Bruno will unveil an innovative website which will set a new standard for pricing transparency and transform how customers shop for launch services.

    This new website will reflect the true total cost of launch and makes launch services more transparent and accessible to anyone. With a click of a button, people around the world will be able to build a rocket that optimizes the cost-effectiveness of their spacecraft designs.

    When:Wednesday, Nov. 30, 2016
    9:30 a.m. Eastern Time

    Where: The news conference will take place at the Newseum Private Dining Room, in Washington, D.C., and light refreshments will be provided. Attendees must enter the Newseum through the C Street group entrance.

    Although questions will only be taken fr om attendees at the Newseum, remote participants are invited to watch via webcast: www.ulalaunch.com/webcast.aspx (https://www.ulalaunch.com/webcast.aspx).

    RSVP: Media interested in attending, please RSVP to jessica.f.rye@ulalaunch.com
    About United Launch Alliance
    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 110 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 30.11.2016 17:46:09
    Кому Атлас по 109 млн? Налетай!

    https://www.rocketbuilder.com/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 30.11.2016 17:59:23
    Каждый ускоритель 6 млн. 5-метровый обтекатель +20-25 млн к 4-метровому!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 01.12.2016 12:47:37
    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/11/rocketbuilder-ula-revamp-launch-services-process/

    ЦитироватьHe added that a few years ago an Atlas V 401 sold for $191 million. Now it's $109 million. "We've streamlined, taken advantage of experience.  It now takes half amount of time to build rocket in Alabama and 1/3 time for process in VIF and pad."
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 02.12.2016 17:10:44
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67530.jpg) Spaceflight Now ‏@SpaceflightNow  (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow)  14 ч.14 часов назад (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/804475773088317440)  
    United Launch Alliance's 10th birthday today, blended Atlas and Delta rocket families, 113 launches in 120 months
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/159232.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.12.2016 21:37:40
    http://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/1019148
    ЦитироватьContracts
    Press Operations
     Release No: CR-231-16
     Dec. 2, 2016
    CONTRACTS
    AIR FORCE
    United Launch Services LLC, Centennial, Colorado, has been awarded a $269,235,964 modification (P00149) to previously awarded contract FA8811-13-C-0003 to execute a requirement for fiscal 2017 launch vehicle (LV) production services in support of the launch vehicle  configuration of an Air Force Delta IV Heavy. This modification adds a pre‐priced contract line item for the Delta IV Heavy LV configuration. Work will be performed at Centennial, Colorado; Decatur, Alabama; and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida, and is expected to be complete by April 30, 2020. Fiscal 2016 and 2017 space procurement funds in the amount of $85,800,000 are being obligated at the time of award. Space and Missile Systems Center, Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, is the contracting activity.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 19.12.2016 18:52:34
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67530.jpg) Spaceflight Now ‏@SpaceflightNow  (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow)  15 ч.15 часов назад (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/810654537870622720)  
    ATLAS: No. 68 now added to the Atlas 5 launch chart. And see our launch archive page updated with today's success! http://spaceflightnow.com/atlas/  (https://t.co/VUlPV2iu6w)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/156414.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 20.12.2016 06:07:11
    помогите понять смысл "This modification adds a pre‐priced contract line item for the Delta IV Heavy LV configuration"
    что именно за 300 лямов они должны сделать?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 20.12.2016 09:17:57
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    5-метровый обтекатель +20-25 млн к 4-метровому!
    Бгг... а что в обтекателе такого дорогого, чтоб 25 миллионов стоить?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 20.12.2016 11:36:32
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    5-метровый обтекатель +20-25 млн к 4-метровому!
    Бгг... а что в обтекателе такого дорогого, чтоб 25 миллионов стоить?
    Домик для Центавра :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.12.2016 11:17:56
    United Launch Alliance Explores the Future of Rocket Design with Additive Manufacturing
    https://youtu.be/XmM6AjJqkYk
    https://youtu.be/XmM6AjJqkYk (https://youtu.be/XmM6AjJqkYk)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 04.02.2017 17:43:43
    Цитировать https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/826394204305764352
    Tory Bruno @torybruno
     (https://twitter.com/torybruno)31 янв. 2017 г.
    ЦитироватьMighty Atlas‏@Rocket_AtlasV (https://twitter.com/Rocket_AtlasV)
    @torybruno Ah. since AR-1 produces significantly less thrust than RD-180 would a solution be dual engine or more SRBs?
    Both Vulcan/BE4 and Vulcan/AR1 configurations call for 2 engines, which is about 30% more thrust than AtlasV. Removes at least one SRB
    Цитировать(Continued). Conversrely, A single AR1 or BE4 config would be about 48% less thrust than AtlasV, which would typically add 2 SRBs. More cost
    Цитировать
    ЦитироватьStian Nuland‏@Stian_Nuland (https://twitter.com/Stian_Nuland)
    @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) Won't Vulcan/BE4 require a different tank size compared to Vulcan/AR1 due to propellant density differences? MethaLOX vs. KeroLOX
    Yes. LN2 less dense than RP1. Both Vulcan/BE4 and Vulcan/AR1 configs have larger tank than AtlasV to optimize for > thrust: Lower total cost
    Цитировать
    ЦитироватьStian Nuland‏@Stian_Nuland (https://twitter.com/Stian_Nuland)
    @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) Thank you. A quick follow up on that. Has the tank diameter been decided? I've heard both 5.4 meter and 5 meter.
    5.4. Think of Vulcan as evol of Atlas. AtlasIII got RD180 + bigger Centaur, AtlasV incr to 3.8m + SRBs, Vulcan chg engine and incr to 5.4m
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 09.02.2017 14:40:09
    Chelsea Leu
    More Money, More Problems for the Commercial Space Launch Biz
    https://www.wired.com/2017/02/launching-rockets-business-hence-explosions-layoffs/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 16.02.2017 20:12:01
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA ‏@ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 16 ч.16 часов назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/832030507877679104)
    The evolution to a self-sustaining space economy. #CisLunar1000 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CisLunar1000?src=hash)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/156878.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.03.2017 01:00:55
    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-awards-launch-services-contract-for-joint-polar-satellite-system-2-mission
    ЦитироватьMarch 3, 2017
    CONTRACT RELEASE C06-17
    NASA Awards Launch Services Contract for Joint Polar Satellite System-2 Mission
     
    NASA has sel ected United Launch Services LLC (ULS) of Centennial, Colorado, to provide launch services for the Joint Polar Satellite System-2 (JPSS-2 (http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/surface-water-and-ocean-topography-swot/)) mission for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Launch is currently targeted for 2021 on an Atlas V 401 rocket fr om Space Launch Complex 3E at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California.
    The total cost for NASA to launch JPSS-2 is approximately $170.6 million, which includes the launch service and other mission-related costs.
    JPSS is a collaborative program between NOAA and NASA. This interagency effort is the latest generation of NOAA polar-orbiting environmental weather satellites. JPSS-2 is one of five satellites that will comprise the JPSS constellation. These spacecraft gather global measurements of atmospheric, terrestrial and oceanic conditions, including sea and land surface temperatures, vegetation, clouds, rainfall, snow and ice cover, fire locations and smoke plumes, atmospheric temperature, water vapor and ozone. JPSS delivers key environmental observations that provide support for the nation's essential products and services. This includes forecasting severe weather such as hurricanes and tornadoes, predicting blizzards days in advance, and assessing other environmental hazards such as droughts, forest fires, poor air quality and harmful ocean conditions, particularly along the coasts. Further, JPSS will provide continuity of critical, global Earth observations — including our atmosphere, oceans and land.
    NASA's Launch Services Program at Kennedy Space Center in Florida will manage the ULS launch service. The JPSS Flight Project office is located at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, and manages spacecraft development for the agency's Science Mission Directorate in partnership with NOAA in Washington, D.C.
     
    For more information about NASA programs and missions, visit: http://www.nasa.gov (http://www.nasa.gov)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 05.03.2017 10:03:56
    Твит после прямо речи Бруно (их там было много)
    Цитировать https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/838100221733322758
    4 мар. 2017 г.
    ULA's RapidLaunch capability means customers can order a launch in as little as 3 months. @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) #AskTory (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AskTory?src=hash)
    И еще реклама старого сайта
    Цитироватьhttps://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/838099895340920832
    4 мар. 2017 г.
    ULA also has launched a way for customers to do trades and even order a rocket via http://www.rocketbuilder.com
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 06.03.2017 17:09:40
    http://spacenews360.com/breaking-layoffs-imminent-united-launch-alliance/
    ЦитироватьBREAKING: Layoffs Imminent At United Launch Alliance

    By Scott Murray (http://spacenews360.com/author/scott/)  -  March 2, 2017
    Спойлер
    (https://i0.wp.com/spacenews360.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/NROL61.jpg?fit=665%2C1000)
    [свернуть]
    UPDATE: March 6, 2017

    BREAKING: Layoffs Imminent At United Launch Alliance


    Mark Dowhan, Vice President of Launch Operations for ULA will be retiring at the end of this month. Mark said he will "play more golf" in his retirement. He has been with the company for almost 17 years following a 21 year career as a commissioned officer in the United States Air Force (http://www.af.mil/). His replacement will be Tony Taliancich, Director East Coast Launch Operations.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/140211.jpg)
    Tony Taliancich

    Tony has been with Lockheed Martin (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/us.html)/ULA for 13 years, mostly in launch operations. Prior to joining Lockheed Martin, he was with the United States Air Force.
     ___________________________________________________________

    According to a credible inside source, major layoffs are about to occur at United Launch Alliance (http://www.ulalaunch.com/) (ULA). Following the launch March 1st, 2017 from Vandenberg Air Force Base, most if not all of the staff of ULA at VAFB will be laid off over a few months.

    Also, according to the inside source a key senior level manager is retiring in March. No replacement is known of at this time, however, two mid-level executives are under consideration. 

    The launch from VAFB was a National Reconnaissance Office (NRO) mission, NROL-79, stacked on an Atlas V (401) booster.  The launch was a success.

    This is big news as ULA still has a launch manifest, following NROL-79, on the west coast at Vandenberg. To process these launches, the inside source said that teams from the east coast will travel to VAFB to process the launch vehicle, payload and control the launch.

    The inside source also reported that ULA will be changing its name.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 06.03.2017 20:10:18
    План в кратком изложении..

    1. Переименоваться
    2 ????? (маску сделать дырку в шар-баллоне, пущай полетает)
    3 ......
    4 profit
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.03.2017 22:23:06
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg)  Tory Bruno‏Подлинная учетная запись @torybruno  (https://twitter.com/torybruno)  5 ч.5 часов назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/838755076449701892)  
    BE4 is the primary path to replace the Atlas' Russian RD180. Looking good
    Цитировать  (https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/838748973598900225)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157232.jpg)
     Jeff BezosПодлинная учетная запись @JeffBezos  
    Here's one more shot of BE-4 in its transport cradle.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 06.03.2017 22:33:11
    ошибся ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 06.03.2017 23:22:44
    An interview with Tory Bruno of ULA - TMRO:Space (1:05:53)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAUyDNMoyc
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAUyDNMoyc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCAUyDNMoyc)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 09.03.2017 00:37:49
    ULA запустила online-сервис (http://www.rocketbuilder.com) подбора РН на пуск...
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch  (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 7 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/839588650757287939)
     
    The value of a launch is a lot more than the price tag. Customize your #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) mission at http://www.RocketBuilder.com  (https://t.co/bx2aFFG9HR). @LockheedMartin (https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157167.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 11.03.2017 01:28:19
    http://spacenews.com/lockheed-martin-halts-athena-effort-plans-some-atlas-5-overlap-with-vulcan/
    ЦитироватьLockheed Martin halts Athena effort, plans some Atlas 5 overlap with Vulcan
    by Caleb Henry (http://spacenews.com/author/caleb-henry/) — March 10, 2017
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155693.jpg)
    Lockheed Martin has one Athena rocket remaining, but is no longer marketing the rocket. Credit: Lockheed Martin  
     
    WASHINGTON — Lockheed Martin has ended its effort to return a small-to-medium-lift launch vehicle to market, and plans to keep the Atlas 5 rocket in flight concurrently with United Launch Alliance's Vulcan rocket for the first five years of operations.
    Steve Skladanek, president of Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services, said March 8 at the Satellite 2017 conference that finding a meaningful customer base for the company's Athena family of vehicles has again proven too difficult.
    "We are no longer actively marketing it," Skladanek said. "If someone is interested in flying with Athena, we still have an asset available, so we could resurrect that system, but right now we are not actively marketing it."
    Lockheed Martin has performed only a handful of missions with the Athena family, which the company co-produced with Alliant Techsystems — the latter of which is now part of Orbital ATK — since the mid-1990s. Athena has a performance record of seven flights, of which two failed.
    Lockheed Martin took Athena off the market in the late 1990s, shelving the program until 2010. The company was hoping to tap into the growing demand for small-satellite launch services with the two-stage Athena 1c and three-stage Athena 2c, capable of sending 700 kilogram and 1,800 kilogram payloads to low Earth orbit, respectively.
    In 2014, Alaska Aerospace Corp. picked Athena as its go-to launcher for small- and medium-lift missions at Kodiak Launch Complex, since rebranded as the Pacific Spaceport Complex. Lockheed Martin was planning an upgraded version of the rocket called Athena 2S, capable of orbiting payloads between 1,900 and 3,000 kilograms.
     
    Atlas 5's lengthy shelf life
    Skladanek said Lockheed Martin anticipates continuing Atlas 5 launches for some time after ULA begins fielding Vulcan, the company's next-generation launch vehicle currently planned for a maiden flight in 2019. Atlas 5 is Lockheed Martin's principal contribution to the Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, which mainly serves U.S. defense and civil government customers using the Atlas and Delta rocket families. Additionally, Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services carries out Atlas 5 missions for commercial customers.
    "We will be flying both vehicles for some period of time until we are absolutely certain that the Vulcan system can maintain the cadence, and the rhythm and reliability that our customers are expecting of us," Skladanek said. "Right now we are anticipating something on the order of a five-year overlap between the two systems."
    ULA's first iteration of Vulcan will use a new first stage engine — either two BE-4 engines from Blue Origin or one AR1 engine from Aerojet Rocketdyne — and the Centaur upper stage from Aerojet Rocketdyne currently used in the Atlas 5. In 2023, ULA plans to introduce Vulcan-ACES, which will use the still-in-development Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage (ACES), to fulfill all Atlas 5 and Delta 4 Heavy missions. Keeping Atlas 5 in operation for five years past the debut of Vulcan-Centaur would allow four years of overlap with that rocket and one year of overlap with Vulcan-ACES, if schedules hold.
    "At that point we will likely retire the Atlas line," Skladanek said.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 11.03.2017 08:24:39
    Вулкан - это американская Ангара.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 11.03.2017 12:30:21
    2024 - год завершения эксплуатации МКС. Вот тогда CST-100 либо похерят, либо пересадят на Vulcan.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 11.03.2017 16:28:40
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.03.2017 18:21:45
    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/03/chute-tests-starliner-asap-worry-rd-180-certification/
    ЦитироватьStarliner will initially launch with Atlas V, powered by her RD-180 main engine. As such, the certification issue is being worked on by Boeing, which is part of ULA.
    "One of the top Boeing risks is the RD-180 engine certification. The engine has a long history, but it has been difficult to get detailed design information for certification," added the ASAP minutes.
    "The Boeing team is developing an approach that takes advantage of the long history of successful use, combined with information that they can obtain."
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 13.03.2017 19:02:16
     У  ЛокМарта же вся документация есть, где тут риск?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 13.03.2017 16:53:26
    надо сертифицировать на хуман-рейтед. были данные, что по родному православному RS-68 который там делают и даже модернизируют (то есть еще понимают как он работает)
    It would reportedly require over 200 changes to the RS-68 to meet human-rating (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human-rating_certification) standards
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 16.03.2017 19:56:44
    https://ria.ru/science/20170316/1490216152.html
    ЦитироватьКомаров: американские двигатели BE-4 в будущем сменят российские РД-180
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/133766.jpg) (//%3Cimg%20%20src=)
    © РИА Новости. Юрий Стрелец (http://www.rian.ru/docs/about/copyright.html)
    МОСКВА, 16 мар — РИА Новости. Разрабатываемые компанией Blue Origin ракетные двигатели BE-4 в перспективе сменят устанавливаемые на американских ракетах-носителях Atlas российские РД-180, поскольку власти США поставили такую задачу частным компаниям, заявил РИА Новости глава "Роскосмоса" Игорь Комаров.
    Ранее сообщалось, что Blue Origin создала первый опытный образец нового двигателя BE-4, работающий на сжиженном природном газе и жидком кислороде. Теперь компании предстоит провести длительные наземные огневые испытания, а затем и наработать положительную летную статистику двигателей в составе ракет-носителей.
    "Ни для кого не секрет, что в США поставлена задача заместить наши двигатели, может быть, менее надежными и более дорогими, но своими, американскими. На это направлены сейчас усилия. Надо понимать, что когда-нибудь они это сделают", — отметил он.
    Отвечая на вопрос, что будет делать подмосковный производитель НПО "Энергомаш" после завершения контракта на поставку РД-180 в США, Комаров сказал: "Все будет нормально. "Энергомаш" будет производить двигатели для других российских проектов или для других стран, или под другие носители в этих странах".
    Двигатель РД-180 производства "Энергомаша" устанавливается на всех американских ракетах-носителях типа Atlas. В ноябре 1996 года было проведено первое огневое испытание двигателя-прототипа, а в апреле 1997 года — огневое испытание штатного двигателя. В 1997–1998 годах была успешно проведена серия огневых испытаний двигателя в составе первой ступени ракеты-носителя в США.
    Весной 1999 года была завершена сертификация РД-180 для использования в составе ракеты-носителя Atlas-3, первый ее запуск состоялся в мае 2000 года. Летом 2001 года была завершена сертификация РД-180 для использования в составе ракеты-носителя Atlas-5, первый полет состоялся в августе 2002 года.
    Ранее глава НПО "Энергомаш" Игорь Арбузов сообщал в интервью РИА Новости, что разрабатываемые частной компанией Blue Origin метановые двигатели BE-4 для новой американской ракеты-носителя Vulcan не смогут в ближайшее время составить конкуренцию российским РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 16.03.2017 20:01:19
    Про более дорогие это зачетный троллинг :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 01.04.2017 16:34:03
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 20 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/847870232618295296)

    Join @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) and key space enterprise partners for a discussion of a self-sustained space economy #CisLunar1000 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/CisLunar1000?src=hash) http://bit.ly/2mWixBy  (https://t.co/eVcouxqtJm)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157708.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 01.04.2017 16:37:13
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186051.jpg) Alec Hutchinson‏ @BP_Hutch (https://twitter.com/BP_Hutch) 17 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/BP_Hutch/status/847904477726339072)

    Here's a good @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) infographic covering their ACES upper stage that will eventually fly on Vulcan. A lot of exciting engineering here!
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157717.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 02.04.2017 23:25:42
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/04/02/united-launch-alliance-wins-three-u-s-government-satellite-launches/
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance wins three U.S. government satellite launches             
     April 2, 2017 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/04/) Justin Ray (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126225.jpg)
    Delta 4-Heavy, Atlas 5-551 and Atlas 5-401 have each booked new U.S. government missions. Photos by United Launch Alliance

    CAPE CANAVERAL — The most powerful variants of the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets have been purchased by the Air Force to launch intelligence-gathering spacecraft for the U.S. government, and NASA has bought an Atlas 5 to deploy a critical polar-orbiting weather satellite.
    The first mission is planned for July 2020 from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California using a Delta 4-Heavy rocket to launch the NROL-82 payload for the National Reconnaissance Office.
    This craft is likely the second of two upcoming exquisite-class, electro-optical surveillance spy satellites needed to replenish the NRO's overhead imaging constellation in polar orbit.
    The other newly-ordered launch is just a month later in August 2020 using an Atlas 5-551 with five side-mounded solid rocket boosters for maximum liftoff power. It will launch the NROL-101 payload from Cape Canaveral. The identity of that craft is not publicly known, nor is its target orbit.
    Both rockets are part of the existing EELV Block Buy between the Air Force and United Launch Alliance. The mission assignments were announced Friday by the Pentagon.
    The missions exceed the lift performance of the SpaceX Falcon 9 rockets that has been certified by the Air Force for national security payloads, making ULA the only provider available to execute these heavy launches.
    In other government-launch news, NASA said last month that the second satellite in the next-generation era of U.S. civilian weather observatories will be launched atop an Atlas 5-401 rocket.
    The Atlas 5 beat out the Falcon 9 in a competition to win the rights to launch the Joint Polar Satellite System spacecraft No. 2 in 2021 from Vandenberg Air Force Base.
    NASA made the Launch Service Task Order under the agency's Launch Services 2 contract, which includes Atlas 5, Delta 4-Heavy, Antares, Falcon 9 and future Falcon Heavy.
    The first JPSS is scheduled to launch this September atop the high-end version of ULA's Delta 2 rocket with nine strap-on solid motors.
    But with the Delta 2 being retired next year, the JPSS 2 launch will be performed by the modest version of the more-powerful Atlas 5 rocket flying in its frequently-used 401 configuration with no solids.
    JPSS is the next American polar-orbiting weather satellite series that will feed long-range forecasts and track environmental trends. It is is a collaboration between NASA and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
    From a 512-mile orbit, tilted 98.7 degrees to the equator and traveling pole-to-pole, JPSS satellites will survey the entire globe twice per day with their sensor packages.
    The craft will provide imagery, atmospheric temperature and humidity profiles, and land and ocean surface temperature observations, all of which are key ingredients for weather forecasting. In addition, the satellite will measure ozone levels and reflected solar radiation from the planet.
    The Air Force has awarded two GPS launches to Falcon 9, as previously reported. The military is evaluating ULA vs. SpaceX for its Space Test Program 3 mission, and has plans to compete a dozen other low-weight launches.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 03.04.2017 17:17:12
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg) Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 38 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/848884507411456002)

    ARTICLE: SLC-41 completes EES installation ahead of Starliner missions - (plus SLS EES upd ate) - https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/04/slc-41-completes-ees-starliner-missions/ ... (https://t.co/ypXqXiFN1R)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157616.jpg)
    Спойлер
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    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157620.jpg)
    [свернуть]
    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/04/slc-41-completes-ees-starliner-missions/
    ЦитироватьSLC-41 completes EES installation ahead of Starliner missions
    April 3, 2017 by Chris Bergin
     
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209157.jpg)

    An Emergency Egress System (EES) has completed its installation into the Crew Access Tower (CAT) at Space Launch Complex -41 (SLC-41) in preparation for Atlas V launches with Boeing's Starliner spacecraft. The EES is a vital element for all crew launch vehicles, with the SLC-41 EES working with the traditional "slide wire" concept.
     
     SLC-41 EES:

    The requirement to have an Emergency Egress System (EES) is not just for the astronauts se t to ride uphill fr om the launch pad, but also for the engineering teams who's role includes working up close and personal with the rocket in the final days of the pad flow.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/208956.jpg)

    ULA began evaluating options for SLC-41 during a period Atlas V was catering for two crew-capable vehicles options, namely Starliner (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/starliner/) – or CST-100 as it was known – and Sierra Nevada Corporation's (SNC) and their Dream Chaser (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=SNC) spacecraft.

    "Different options for emergency egress. Detailed hazard analysis of the launch operations is a key determinant," noted the since-retired Dr. George Sowers, ULA VP for Human Launch Services, during a Q&A session with NASASpaceFlight.com members (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29751.0) in 2012. "We have the option of implementing a shuttle-like slide wire system if required."

    Although Atlas V is still hoping to launch Dream Chaser missions, the spacecraft's role has been refocused on cargo missions (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=Dream). The EES option will still be employed for pad crews tending to the spacecraft. However, the highlighted role will be for astronauts riding on the Starliner.
    Спойлер
    The historical heritage of the EES hardware has mainly been based around utilizing a fairly simple, gravity-powered systems with a requirement to be passive/unpowered, in case the emergency cut power to the pad. However, each option had a different take on a similar theme.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231616.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231616.jpg)

    The first EES for the Saturn V used the existing launch tower elevators to evacuate crew and/or engineers to the base of the Mobile Launch Platform, before transferring to a "slide tube" that led in an underground rubber room/sealed blast room – which remains in a preserved condition at Complex 39. (Large photo collection available on L2 – LINK (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=16024.0)).

    A second system was added a few years later, adding the option of a single cab on a slide wire that egressed the astronauts outside of the pad perimeter – known as the Blast Danger Area (BDA) – 2,400 feet away fr om the pad. From there, they would enter a sealed bunker and await rescue.

    This slide wire system was expanded by the time the Space Shuttle began its service for NASA, with extra emphasis on the pad EES, not least because a pad abort was not possible via the vehicle, due to the lack of a LAS (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/las/).

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231617.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231617.jpg)

    Engineers installed five slide wires to the launch tower – later expanded to seven – with baskets that could hold up to four people each.

    These slidewires ended at the same Apollo bunkers outside the BDA, wh ere personnel could wait out the disaster or transfer to an armored vehicle (M-113) and drive to a triage site wh ere they could be met by rescue personnel.

    The slide wire option remained relatively unchanged throughout its career with the Space Shuttle Program (SSP) and was thankfully never required or used in anger.

    It was used – mostly uncrewed – during emergency drills carried out on occasions such as the Terminal Countdown Demonstration Test (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2011/06/sts-135-atlantis-tcdt-external-tank-death-camera-ready/) (TCDT), allowing the crew to practice their evacuation plans.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209091.jpg)

    With ULA working on SLC-41 (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/08/pad-changes-new-era-space-coast/) during regular Atlas V missions (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/atlas-v/), this week's announcement that a final test of the pad's EES has been conducted is another step towards seeing US astronauts launching from the Cape.

    "ULA is absolutely focused on the safety of the crews we will be supporting and although we hope to never use it, we are excited to announce the Emergency Egress System is fully operational," said Gary Wentz, Vice President of Human & Commercial Services.

    "Through our partnership with Terra-Nova, a company that designs and builds zip lines for recreational use, a modified, off-the-shelf product has been designed and constructed to meet our needs and reduce costs, while maintaining reliability and safety."

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209092.jpg)

    The egress cables are situated on level 12 of the Crew Access Tower (CAT), 172 feet above the Space Launch Complex 41 pad deck and will allow the crew to evacuate the CAT quickly to a landing zone more than 1,340 feet from the launch vehicle.

    The EES can accommodate up to 20 personnel, including ground crew and flight crew.

    ULA noted that Terra-Nova, LLC (makers of the ZipRider Hybrid) offered a commercially developed EES based on their "off-the-shelf," patented designs.

    The ZipRider was easily adaptable to ULA's specific needs while offering an unmatched safety record, and providing the best overall value.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209093.jpg)

    With Boeing's Chris Ferguson – a former Shuttle commander (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=ferguson) – enjoying a test ride on the system ahead of its installation at SLC-41, it takes just 30 seconds for the rider to reach a top speed of 40 mph. The riders control their speed by releasing pressure on the handles, with the ability to glide to a gentle stop at the landing zone.

    There are 30 feet of springs on each cable located in the landing area to gradually slow a rider down if they forget to brake. Terra-Nova will install a training system located north of the CAT for riders to practice on before final training on the operational EES.

    "Crew safety is paramount, and the ULA emergency egress system hits the mark for an effective yet simple system that is adapted from other commercial applications," said Commander Ferguson, Boeing director of Starliner Crew and Mission Systems.
     
    "We look forward to spaceflight operations next year knowing that every measure to protect the flight and ground crew has been employed."

    There's also been internal movement on the EES that will be employed for the Space Launch System (SLS) (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/sls/) on Pad 39B (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/39B/), years after a trade study began to evaluate the best EES option for safely evacuating crew and engineers from the dizzy heights of the Mobile Launcher (ML) (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/ML/). Teams have been told to accelerate options in light of the recent study into changing Exploration Mission -1 (EM-1) into a crewed mission (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/02/investigating-potential-crew-sls-maiden-flight/).

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209090.jpg)

    Currently, only one patchy render of the system has been acquired (L2) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42529.0) – showing the use of a massive crane.

    "Members of the Operations Integration and Analysis team developed, modeled, and created images of an Emergency Egress System concept in support of the Crewed SLS EM-1 Mission Study," noted a memo via L2 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42529.0).

    "The orange frame depicts the fixture with the four baskets lifted by a mobile crane and attached to the west side of the Mobile Launcher. The ground distance from the tower to the end of the slide wire is over 1100 feet, and the wire would be approximately 1300ft long. These images were used in the crewed EM-1 impact briefing to NASA Headquarters."

    The use of a massive crane will be far cheaper than the recommended option from the 2006 study for the since-cancelled Ares I launch vehicle EES (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2006/11/nasa-will-build-rollercoaster-for-ares-i-escape/), once again pitching several very different designs against each other – including a slide wire system.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231615.jpg) (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2007/10/major-redesign-to-ares-i-roller-coaster-previous-concept-scrapped/)

    The winner of the 2006 study was the spectacular Roller Coaster EES – a giant structure that would have been a permanent fixture out at Pad 39B, rising into the Florida skyline ready to be hooked up to the ML once it had rolled out to the pad with the vehicle.

    The Roller Coaster EES included a multi-car high-speed rail system and used gravity to get personnel to a safe haven. It was deemed to be very accommodating to incapacitated crew members as well as limited 3G forces on the people riding the cars with a passive electromagnetic braking system.

    It underwent a few redesigns during the life of the Constellation Program, including options to extend the rails to an area outside the BDA directly into a triage site.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231618.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231618.jpg)

    For this system, NASA relied on many different areas of expertise: Safety, Medical, Operations Personnel, and the Astronaut Office. Engineers involved in Disney's roller coaster systems were also part of the design project.

    The 2006 trade study – (available on L2 LINK (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29415.msg942668#msg942668)) – helped explain the requirements of the future EES, of which there are numerous considerations. These considerations will be playing into the SLS trade study discussions.

    "The EES starts at the crew hatch of the Orion and terminates at the designated safe area. Once the crew access arm is extended, a maximum of 2 minutes for 15 able bodied personnel (six crew members, three closeout crew members, and six fire/rescue members) is allowed to move from the hatch to inside the safe area during vehicle processing at the pad up to T-0.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209089.jpg)

    "The EES shall provide a safe area built to withstand possible blast, fire, and flying debris within the 5,000-ft blast danger area of the tower. The EES shall accommodate the following hazards at the pad: fire, propellant spills, tank overpressure, radioactive-material release, and toxic atmosphere.

    "The EES shall provide a clear route from Orion hatch to the egress vehicles with provision for 0.25 gpm/sq ft of water spray and fire detection for the EES before entering the vehicles."

    The list continued for two pages, and despite being by far the most expensive, the Roller Coaster EES scored the highest in nearly all of the requirement categories.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231619.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/231619.jpg)

    The 2006 study design was refined again in 2008 (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2008/07/ares-i-rollercoaster-ees-continues-to-evolve/), mainly relating to the initial drop from the ML, in turn providing a CGI view from both onboard the coaster and viewing it drop from various viewpoints (L2 Link to Video (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=10075.0)).

    However, the Constellation Program was then canceled.

    Pad 39A's EES (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/39A/) will be mainly focused around the needs of the pad engineers, given astronauts onboard the Dragon 2 (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon-v2/) will find their spacecraft will be the fastest way of egressing the pad in the event of an emergency ahead of launch.

    Dragon 2 will fire her SuperDraco thrusters in the event of a pad abort scenario, as has already been tested (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2015/05/dragon-2-pad-abort-leap-key-spacex-test/).

    (Images: Via Boeing, ULA and L2's specific sections. To join L2, click here: https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/l2/)
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 03.04.2017 18:02:18
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 16 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/848666632347992066)

    ULA worked w/Terra-Nova, which designs & creates rec zip lines, to modify ZipRider to meet our needs for the EES #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash)

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 16 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/848666138267471872)

    Completing Emergency Egress System testing is another step complete as we prepare to launch crew in @BoeingDefense (https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense) #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash) atop #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash)

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 17 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/848659462797840384)

    Zip line to safety: ULA completes final testing on its Emergency Egress System. #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash) #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) @BoeingDefense (https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense) http://bit.ly/2oquaBb  (https://t.co/uQmxVijXlD)
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    Спойлер
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    [свернуть]
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-completes-crew-emergency-egress-system.aspx
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Completes Crew Emergency Egress System

    ULA and Terra-Nova Zipline provide NASA and commercial astronauts with safe, new generation egress option  


    Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Fla., (April 2, 2017) – The final test of the Emergency Egress System (EES) was conducted recently, signifying the completion of another United Launch Alliance (ULA) milestone supporting NASA's Commercial Crew Program. The EES was developed in support of Boeing's Starliner crew capsule and is a means of rapid egress for astronauts in case of an anomaly.

    "ULA is absolutely focused on the safety of the crews we will be supporting, and, although we hope to never use it, we are excited to announce the Emergency Egress System is fully operational," said Gary Wentz, vice president of Human & Commercial Services. "Through our partnership with Terra-Nova, a company that designs and builds zip lines for recreational use, a modified, off-the-shelf product has been designed and constructed to meet our needs and reduce costs, while maintaining reliability and safety."

    The egress cables are situated on level 12 of the Crew Access Tower (CAT), 172 feet above the Space Launch Complex 41 pad deck at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, and will allow the crew to evacuate the CAT quickly to a landing zone more than 1,340 feet from the launch vehicle. The EES can accommodate up to 20 personnel, including ground crew and flight crew.

    Terra-Nova, LLC (makers of the ZipRider® Hybrid) offered a commercially developed EES based on their "off-the-shelf," patented designs. The ZipRider was easily adaptable to ULA's specific needs, while offering an unmatched safety record, and providing the best overall value.

    In just 30 seconds, the rider reaches top speeds of 40 mph. The riders control their speed by releasing pressure on the handles, with the ability to glide to a gentle stop at the landing zone. There are 30 feet of springs on each cable located in the landing area to gradually slow a rider down if they forget to brake. Terra-Nova will install a training system located north of the CAT for riders to practice on before final training on the operational EES.  

    The Boeing Company is developing Starliner and sel ected ULA's Atlas V rocket for human-rated spaceflight to the International Space Station. ULA's Atlas V has launched more than 70 times with a 100 percent mission success rate.

    "Crew safety is paramount, and the ULA Emergency Egress System hits the mark for an effective yet simple system that is adapted fr om other commercial applications," said Chris Ferguson, Boeing director of Starliner Crew and Mission Systems and a former NASA astronaut. "We look forward to spaceflight operations next year knowing that every measure to protect the flight and ground crew has been employed."

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 115 satellites to orbit that aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, unlock the mysteries of our solar system, provide critical capabilities for troops in the field and enable personal device-based GPS navigation.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).          
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 03.04.2017 15:50:47
    то есть вместо нормальной трубы из аквапарка они сделали какую-то резинку от трусов?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 03.04.2017 19:38:25
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 26 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/848929369573785602)

    Final qualification, loads analyses. Flight design. Final assembly. Preparing to launch #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash) in 2018.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E)
    ЦитироватьAtlas V Starliner 2017: Preparing to Launch Astronauts to the Space Station

    United Launch Alliance is thrilled to be working with Boeing to launch astronauts aboard Boeing's Starliner atop ULA's #AtlasV rocket. Here's what's in store for 2017 as we prepare to launch astronauts to the Space Station beginning in 2018.

    youtube.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 04.04.2017 01:58:19
    Atlas V Starliner 2017: Preparing to Launch Astronauts to the Space Station
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLlZJLWEm9E) (2:32)
    ЦитироватьОпубликовано: 3 апр. 2017 г.

    United Launch Alliance is thrilled to be working with Boeing to launch astronauts aboard Boeing's Starliner atop ULA's #AtlasV (https://www.youtube.com/results?q=%23AtlasV) rocket. Here's what's in store for 2017 as we prepare to launch astronauts to the Space Station beginning in 2018.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 04.04.2017 21:42:44
    ULA Hosts CisLunar Panel at 33rd Space Symposium
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnlw42B5i0s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnlw42B5i0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnlw42B5i0s)
    (47:22)
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance (ULA) CEO Tory Bruno and key space enterprise partners discuss the vision of a self-sustained space economy within the confines of CisLunar space.

    Panel members will representatives from American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Boeing, Made in Space, Offworld, and the United States Air Force.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.04.2017 22:30:45
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185978.jpg)  Dr. Phil Metzger‏ @DrPhiltill (https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill)  21 ч.21 час назад (https://twitter.com/DrPhiltill/status/849023097789460480)
    I'm excited to announce that @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) has funded me + @UCF (https://twitter.com/UCF) & @coschoolofmines (https://twitter.com/coschoolofmines) colleagues to develop lunar water extraction!
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157644.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 04.04.2017 23:33:17
    CisLunar 2017: A Vision for a Self-Sustaining Space Economy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8bs8E6XOY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8bs8E6XOY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt8bs8E6XOY) (2:34)
    ЦитироватьОпубликовано: 4 апр. 2017 г.

    CisLunar - the space between Earth and the moon -- holds vast opportunities for humans. Reliable, accessible, affordable access to space will help open economic opportunities. ULA's ability to provide reliable, affordable access to space, which will provide critical infrastructure to supporting a space economy.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 05.04.2017 17:49:59
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186048.jpg) Spacenews360‏ @SpaceNews360 (https://twitter.com/SpaceNews360) 5 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/SpaceNews360/status/849550195859873792)

    United Launch Alliance cuts Atlas rocket price amid competition http://reut.rs/2nVrpoq  (https://t.co/mX1oEYgAvj) via @Reuters (https://twitter.com/Reuters)
    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-space-ula-idUSKBN17706M
    ЦитироватьScience News (http://www.reuters.com/news/archive/scienceNews) | Tue Apr 4, 2017 | 10:10pm EDT

     United Launch Alliance cuts Atlas rocket price amid competition

    By Irene Klotz (http://www.reuters.com/journalists/irene-klotz) | COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo.
     
     United Launch Alliance has dropped the price of its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket flights by about one-third in response to mounting competition fr om rival SpaceX and others, the company's chief executive said on Tuesday.
    Спойлер
    "We're seeing that price is even more important than it had been in the past," Tory Bruno, chief executive of United Launch Alliance, or ULA, said during an interview at the U.S. Space Symposium in Colorado Springs.

    "We're dropping the cost of Atlas almost every day. Atlas is now down more than a third in its cost," Bruno said.

    As of December 2016, a baseline Atlas 5 rocket launch was selling for about $109 million, though satellite operators can make up at least half that cost by getting more favorable insurance rates and other factors, including an on-time launch, ULA has said.

    In contrast, Space Exploration Technologies, or SpaceX, lists the base price of a Falcon 9 rocket launch on its website at $62 million.

    ULA's cost reductions include trimming its payroll. The company last year said it planned to cut as many as 875 jobs, or about one-quarter of its workforce, before the end of 2017.  

    The company last month lost a U.S. Air Force global positioning satellite launch contract to SpaceX, which bid $96.5 million for the work.

    "It was a price-focused competition," Bruno said.

    After losing the bid, Bruno said he learned from the Air Force what was obvious - the competitor had a lower price.
     
    More competition is on the way. Jeff Bezos' rocket company Blue Origin last month announced its first six launch contracts for its still-in-development New Glenn orbital rocket.

    Bruno said ULA would continue to pound away on the Atlas 5 price, but ultimately plans to replace the booster, which has a perfect 70-flight history.

    Manufacturing and supplier costs at some point will lim it price reductions, Bruno said. The new booster, expected to debut in 2019, "crashes through that ... floor and brings us to a much more competitive offering."
     
    (Editing by Steve Gorman)
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 06.04.2017 03:59:56
    :o   :|  
    http://spacenews.com/bruno-vulcan-engine-downselect-is-blues-to-lose/
    ЦитироватьBruno: Vulcan engine downselect is Blue's to lose
    by Jeff Foust (http://spacenews.com/author/jeff-foust/) — April 5, 2017
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155695.jpg)
    Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos speaks in front of his company's New Shepard suborbital vehicle on display at the 33rd Space Symposium in Colorado Springs April 5. Bezos said the company still plans to start flying people on suborbital space tourism flights by the end of 2018, although the company has yet to start selling tickets or even setting a ticket price. Development of New Shepard, he said, is informing the company's plans for an orbital launch vehicle, New Glenn, that will use the same BE-4 engines that United Launch Alliance is considering for its Vulcan rocket. Credit: Chuck Bigger for SpaceNews
    [свернуть]
    COLORADO SPRINGS — United Launch Alliance is prepared to sel ect Blue Origin's BE-4 engine for its Vulcan launch vehicle this year if the engine passes an upcoming series of tests, the company's chief executive said April 5.

    In an interview during the 33rd Space Symposium here, Tory Bruno said that tests of the BE-4 engine, scheduled to begin "very soon" at Blue Origin's test site in West Texas, are the last major hurdle the engine must clear before ULA decides to use it on Vulcan.

    "The economic factors are largely in place now and the thing that is outstanding is the technical risk," Bruno said. "That's why we keep talking about the engine firing."
    Спойлер
    A major aspect of the engine tests, he said, is to determine the degree of combustion instability the BE-4 has when the engine starts. "Any time when you are developing a new rocket engine, any time you change the scale or the fuel, you are at risk of this phenomenon," he said. The BE-4 engine is the largest engine developed to date that uses methane as fuel, rather than more common alternatives like kerosene or liquid hydrogen.

    "We look first to the combustion instability as the chief technical risk that must be retired before we'd be able to pick an engine," Bruno said. He anticipated a series of tests, lasting for several weeks, where the engine's thrust is gradually increased to measure its performance and determine if it suffers from combustion instability.

    Bruno said he was encouraged by tests of some key engine components, including the preburner, a smaller version of the main engine that powers the engine's turbomachinery. "The good news is the preburner is running like a top," he said. "We're starting to get more and more confidence that we're going to have a good experience when we run a full-scale engine."

    If the tests all go as planned, Bruno said ULA could be ready to formally sel ect the BE-4 in as soon as 60 to 90 days. "But it could take longer," he added. "It's not on the calendar."

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155374.jpg)
    Tony Bruno (left), Jeff Bezos and the BE-4 engine at 2014 press conference. Credit: SpaceNews/Brian Berger

    Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin, confirmed in an April 5 interview that test of the BE-4 will start in the next several weeks. One engine is already at the company's test site, with two more shipping there soon.

    "We wanted to go into the test program hardware-rich," he said. With those engines and other equipment at the test site, "we can move through the test program quite rapidly." He said that testing would continue after ULA made its decision, with final certification of the BE-4 planned for late 2018 or early 2019.

    While Bruno will make the decision about the engine, he will get plenty of advice. He said he recently established an independent non-advocate review (INR) team of outside experts to review the overall engine evaluation process. That team includes former Secretary of the Air Force Sheila Widnall; retired Air Force Maj. Gen. Susan Mashiko, former deputy director of the National Reconnaissance Office; and Ray Johnson, former vice president for space launch operations at the Aerospace Corp.

    Bruno said Congress also established a separate INR team, comprised of engineers fr om NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center, to review the engine selection process. "I was actually happy to hear that they did that," Bruno said, adding that this team had access to the same data as ULA's own review team.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155705.jpg)
    Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin, confirmed in an April 5 interview that test of the BE-4 will start in the next several weeks. Credit: Tom Kimmel

    Bruno added that he expected the Air Force would also seek access to the test data and provide ULA with its own opinion about the engine. "I will hear all of those opinions and it will be super easy if everybody says the same thing," he said. "If they do not, then we will resolve that. And then we will make a choice."

    Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1 engine remains the alternative for Vulcan should the BE-4 run into technical problems. Development of the AR1 is 18 to 24 months behind the BE-1, he said, because it started later. "I have confidence they can get their engine to work" because of its use of a more conventional fuel, kerosene.

    Blue Origin, though, has the financial edge. Bruno said ULA already haa a firm fixed-price deal with Blue Origin for "a large enough quantity" of engines that covers initial Vulcan missions. Those engines will be produced initially at Blue Origin's factory in Kent, Washington.

    "Their production capability actually looks quite good," Bruno said of those initial BE-4 engine plans. "My INR heads came back to me and said they are very comfortable with that production capability already."

    Later engines will be built at a separate facility Blue Origin plans to develop in the next few years that will be designed to produce dozens of engines a year. "We're in the process of site selection for a full production site," Meyerson said. He declined to identify the locations being considered, but said a decision should be made in the next six months.

    Bruno said that he expected to decide on the Vulcan engine this year, but wouldn't be rushed into one. "I get to make this decision, like, once. This is a big decision and if you don't get it right, it's very hard to come back fr om that," he said. "So I'm going to take my time and listen to all these experts and stakeholders and then do it."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 07.04.2017 00:52:51
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 17 мин.17 минут назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/850099178504155137)
    Baker: additional engines would support Atlas 5 launches "well into 2024." #33SS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/33SS?src=hash)
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 18 мин.18 минут назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/850098810533576704)
    Baker: our last delivery of RD-180 engines to ULA is in 2019. We expect them to decide soon to purchase more, into 2020-21. #33SS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/33SS?src=hash)
     
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg)  Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust)  53 мин.53 минуты назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/850091729982238722)  
    Mike Baker, RD AMROSS (RD-180 contractor): we're dedicated to supporting ULA's transition to new rocket and engine to avoid gaps. #33SS (https://twitter.com/hashtag/33SS?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 07.04.2017 01:51:14
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 34 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/850108673259163649)

    Step onto the launch pad & climb aboard @BoeingDefense (https://twitter.com/BoeingDefense)'s #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash) atop ULA's #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) for a #ULA360 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ULA360?src=hash) trip to the ISS
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnPiuRiwl0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnPiuRiwl0)
    ЦитироватьRocket Launch 360: Atlas V Starliner

    3,2,1...liftoff! Take a trip to the International Space Station aboard Boeing's...

    youtube.com (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvnPiuRiwl0)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 08.04.2017 21:53:17
    http://spacenews.com/rd-180-provider-seeks-additional-ula-engine-order/
    ЦитироватьRD-180 provider seeks additional ULA engine order
    by Jeff Foust (http://spacenews.com/author/jeff-foust/) — April 7, 2017
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155535.jpg)
    The head of RD Amross is hopeful ULA will order an additional batch of RD-180 engines for the Atlas 5 as a hedge against any delays in the development of Vulcan. Credit: ULA  
     
    COLORADO SPRINGS — The new chief executive of the U.S.-Russian joint venture that provides RD-180 engines to United Launch Alliance said April 6 he hopes to win an order for additional engines.
    During a panel on international cooperation at the 33rd Space Symposium, Michael Baker, CEO of RD Amross, said he expected ULA to make a decision in the near future on buying additional engines as a hedge against any delays in the development of the company's Vulcan rocket.
    "We would like to make more engines and sell them in the U.S.," said Baker, a former astronaut who became CEO in January after retiring from NASA.
    Use of the RD-180 became a political hot potato in 2014, after Russia's annexation of Crimea led to calls by U.S. lawmakers to end reliance on the engine. That debate, which at one point included legislation that sharply reduced the number of RD-180 engines available to ULA for national security missions, was resolved last year with the passage of the fiscal year 2017 defense authorization act that gives ULA access to as many as 18 engines for national security missions through 2022.
    By 2022, ULA hopes to have the Vulcan vehicle certified by the U.S. Air Force for such launches, using either a Blue Origin BE-4 engine or an Aerojet Rocketdyne AR1 engine in place of the RD-180. Baker, though, suggested that additional RD-180 engines could provide a cushion should certification of Vulcan be delayed.
    "Those developments can have lots of issues, so they're really struggling to decide whether they need some more engines or not," he said of ULA. "I think the decision is going to be made soon to probably buy some more engines."
    ULA has not publicly stated any interest in purchasing more RD-180 engines. Use of additional engines would require new language in a future authorization bill, although ULA would be free to use the engines for commercial customers as well as for civil government agencies like NASA.
    Baker said ULA would need to make a decision soon, given the two-year lead time for producing new engines. The last RD-180 engines under the current agreement are due to be delivered to ULA in 2019. An additional order, he said, would likely push out that final delivery date to 2020 or 2021, and support launches well into 2024.
    Even with an additional engine order, the long-term future of RD Amross is not clear. Russia's NPO Energomash, which builds the RD-180, and United Technologies Corp. are the partners in the joint venture, established in the late 1990s to both import the RD-180 for the Atlas 5 and, ultimately, produce it in the United States. However, domestic production of the RD-180 was never funded.
    The Atlas 5 is the only vehicle that currently uses the RD-180. NPO Energomash does provide the RD-181 engine to Orbital ATK for use on its Antares rocket, but those sales are done directly between the companies and not through RD Amross.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 13.04.2017 21:40:22
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185615.jpg) Trevor Kilpatrick‏ @ularocketman (https://twitter.com/ularocketman) 12 апр. (https://twitter.com/ularocketman/status/852197019829522432)

    Newest mission patch for @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)'s #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) launching @Boeing (https://twitter.com/Boeing)'s #Starliner (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Starliner?src=hash) capsule! #welaunchedthat (https://twitter.com/hashtag/welaunchedthat?src=hash)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157927.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 13.04.2017 22:12:50
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg) Tory Bruno‏Подлинная учетная запись @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) 2 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/852568874809569280)

    ULAs small, but mighty navy
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/157985.jpg)
    http://www.vandenberg.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1150170/delta-mariner-docks-at-vandenberg/
    ЦитироватьDelta Mariner docks at Vandenberg
     By Staff Sgt. Shane M. Phipps, 30th Space Wing Public Affairs / Published April 12, 2017

    (http://0s.nvswi2lb.mrswmzloonss4z3poy.nblz.ru/2017/Apr/12/2001732055/670/394/0/170412-F-DB561-001.JPG)
    PHOTO DETAILS (http://o53xo.ozqw4zdfnzrgk4th.mftc43ljnq.nblz.ru/News/Photos/igphoto/2001732055/) / DOWNLOAD HI-RES (http://0s.nvswi2lb.mrswmzloonss4z3poy.nblz.ru/2017/Apr/12/2001732055/-1/-1/0/170412-F-DB561-001.JPG)
    1 of 1
    [/B] A cargo ship, the Delta Mariner, prepares to offload rocket components at Vandenberg Air Force Base's dock, April 6, 2017, Vandenberg Air Force Base, Calif. The Delta Mariner made its way from a production facility in Decatur, Ala., to deliver a United Launch Alliance Delta IV rocket, scheduled to launch in 2017. (U.S. Air Force photo by Senior Airman Ian Dudley/Released)
     
    VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. --
    A cargo ship, contracted by United Launch Alliance and specifically designed to carry rocket components, recently dropped anchor here, April 6.

    The Delta Mariner made its way from a production facility in Decatur, Ala., to deliver a Delta IV rocket, scheduled to launch sometime this year.
    Спойлер
    "The Delta Mariner is the only transport method to get the Delta IV rocket here from Decatur," said 1st Lt. Luke Unrath, 4th Space Launch Squadron launch vehicle responsible engineer. "Because of this, the shipping schedule is planned far in advance to ensure delivery well before the rocket is put on-stand."

    Anchoring at Vandenberg's sole dock, which is specifically designed to accept the Delta Mariner, the boat is a required form of transportation due to the booster's massive size. Additionally, the delivery will help Vandenberg achieve one of its primary objectives – maintaining assured access to space.

    "U.S. Code 2273 policy of the U.S. President states, to the maximum extent practicable, the U.S. has the capabilities necessary to launch and ins ert national security payloads into space whenever such payloads are needed in space," said 1st Lt. Jessica Dixon Galbreath, 4th SLS Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle launch mission manager. "This is also known as assured access to space. The arrival of the Delta Mariner and offload of the Delta IV hardware helped achieve the assured access to space required by the U.S. President."

    In a carefully orchestrated manner, civilian and military members alike will continue to work tirelessly -- from the time rocket components arrive piece by piece to the moment the payload successfully reaches polar-orbit,

    "The 4th SLS provides mission assurance for the Air Force throughout the entire process," said Unrath. "From delivery to Vandenberg, through the stacking process, to the day of launch, the 4th is the lynchpin between United Launch Alliance and the Space and Missile Center. Risk mitigation is another critical role we play throughout the entire process."

    Despite logistical challenges like uncooperative weather, members of the 4th SLS, and their civilian partners, worked cohesively to ensure the offload was a success.

    "We worked with ULA, Foss Maritime and the NRO, to ensure a successful offload," said Dixon Galbreath. "The land based weather and maritime weather were challenges which delayed the original offload date, but we se t-up daily meetings with our partners to discuss the feasibility of offloading the next chance we had – and it ended up being a success! ULA, Foss Maritime and the 4th SLS did a fantastic job working together to make it all happen."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 14.04.2017 00:48:40
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ruag-space-ramps-up-its-new-decatur-facility-.aspx
    ЦитироватьRUAG Space Ramps Up its New Decatur Facility

    Located within United Launch Alliance's Decatur rocket factory, the two strategic partners plan to create 100 new American Jobs by 2019


    Decatur, Ala. (April 13, 2017) – RUAG will soon manufacture carbon fiber structures in the U.S., as the company steadily progresses with their build-up of a new facility within United Launch Alliance's Decatur rocket factory. In January, ULA presented RUAG Space the keys to its 132,000 square foot facility, and work began immediately to prepare the space for the future production and assembly line of the RUAG payload fairings and interstage adapters. Being located within ULA's overall 1.6-million-square-foot factory area ensures a direct link to the customer and facilitates integration.
    Спойлер
    "We could not be more pleased to have RUAG Space co-located with us in Decatur and bring 100 new, high-tech jobs to America," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "RUAG Space has been a strong partner on our Atlas program for more than a decade, and now we look forward to continuing our collaboration on our new Vulcan Centaur rocket as we transform the future of launch to make space more affordable and accessible."  

    "RUAG has a 'customer-first' approach – and establishing a manufacturing facility in such close proximity to ULA is strong proof of this. The co-location will significantly reduce costs and facilitate integration of our products in ULA's manufacturing line. At the same time, we are able to further grow our footprint in the U.S., relying on a strong local workforce," says Peter Guggenbach, CEO of RUAG Space.

    Until now, RUAG Space has built the Atlas V 5.4-meter payload fairing system and the interstage adapter in Zurich and Emmen, Switzerland. This work, plus the production of several new structures now will be manufactured locally in Alabama. The ribbon cutting for the new facility will be late spring 2017.

    ...

    About RUAG Space
    RUAG Space is the leading independent supplier of products for the space industry in Europe, with a growing presence in the United States. With sites across six countries, it specializes in products for use aboard satellites and launch vehicles. Its capabilities cover four areas: structures and separation systems for launch vehicles, structures and mechanisms for satellites, digital electronics for satellites and launch vehicles, and satellite communications equipment. RUAG Space is part of the international technology group RUAG, with headquarters in Switzerland. www.ruag.com  (http://www.ruag.com)
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 15.04.2017 09:48:23
    Недавно в комментариях писали про магазин атрибутики у SpaceX.
    ULA подошла к этому очень основательно http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/
    Для футболок и выбор миссии, и цвет http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/mission-shirts/
    И даже носки и галстуки http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/men/    :D  
    И даже модельки http://www.ulalaunchstore.com/models/

    В Заказах - кажется только по США и исполнитель rlk-inc.com (mailto:mobermeyer@rlk-inc.com) 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 19.04.2017 09:03:20
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/04/18/ula-chief-says-blue-origin-in-drivers-seat-for-vulcan-engine-deal/
    ЦитироватьULA chief says Blue Origin in driver's seat for Vulcan engine deal
     April 18, 2017 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/04/) Stephen Clark (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126129.jpg)
    The first fully-assembled BE-4 engine. Credit: Blue Origin
    [свернуть]
    A full-scale BE-4 engine developed by Blue Origin, the space company founded by Amazon.com's Jeff Bezos, is installed on a test stand in West Texas for a series of hotfire tests that United Launch Alliance will closely examine before settling on the reusable methane-fueled engine for its new-generation Vulcan rocket.

    If the engine firings are successful, ULA will likely sel ect the BE-4 engine for the first stage of the Vulcan booster set to begin launching by the end of 2019, according to Tory Bruno, ULA's president and chief executive.

    ULA will decide between Blue Origin's BE-4 engine and the kerosene-fueled AR1 powerplant fr om Aerojet Rocketdyne, a more traditional aerospace supplier.

    But the BE-4 is ahead of the AR1 in development, and Bruno said ULA will go with the Blue Origin-built engine as soon as the first series of test-firings are successfully accomplished.

    "When that engine begins its testing and we collect enough data, we'll be able to decide if the engine is going to work and meet the performance requirements," Bruno said April 4 at the 33rd Space Symposium in Colorado Springs. "When that data is in hand, then we'll make the down-selection. I expect that to be this year."
    Спойлер
    Blue Origin kicked off development of the BE-4 engine for its own launcher several years before ULA approached Bezos's company. Bruno and Bezos announced the engine partnership in September 2015, a few months before ULA unveiled the name and basic design of the Vulcan launch vehicle.

    At the time, full-scale testing of the BE-4 engine was expected to begin before the end of 2016. A timetable for the first full-scale BE-4 hotfire test has not been released, but officials fr om ULA and Blue Origin said the first test engine has been installed on a firing stand at Bezos's West Texas test facility for final checks.

    Rob Meyerson, president of Blue Origin, said April 5 that the first firing of the test engine would occur "very soon."

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126321.jpg)
    Rob Meyerson, Blue Origin's president, presents a photo of the BE-4 engine being mounted on a test stand in West Texas during remarks at the 33rd Space Symposium on April 5. Credit: Stephen Clark/Spaceflight Now

    According to Bruno, the hotfire tests will eliminate sufficient risk in the engine's development to permit ULA to settle on the BE-4 as the main propulsion system for the Vulcan booster stage.

    Despite a delay of several months in the start of full-scale BE-4 testing, Bruno said the Vulcan rocket is still on track for a maiden flight by the end of 2019 if Blue Origin ends up the winner in ULA's engine test-off.

    "Assuming we can make this decision in a reasonable span of time, yes," Bruno told reporters on the sidelines of the Space Symposium. "If we're on the BE-4, it's a pretty clear schedule. If the BE-4 is not going to work out and we sel ect AR1, they're further behind, so that puts a little more pressure on that schedule ... If we had to sel ect the AR1, I cannot fly it by 2019."

    ULA will introduce the Vulcan launcher in phases, eventually replacing the company's Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rocket fleets in the 2020s.

    The first step is developing a new high-power engine to replace the Russian-made RD-180 engine currently flying on the Atlas 5's first stage, followed by work on a new upper stage to replace the Centaur second stage, which is based on a 1960s-era design.

    The advanced upper stage will be capable of refueling in space and can generate its own electricity with an on-board fuel cell, allowing it to loiter in orbit for weeks or months to conduct multiple missions as a space tug.

    If ULA decides on the BE-4 as the RD-180's replacement, the Vulcan's first stage will be powered by two of the commercially-developed and privately-funded engines, each generating about 550,000 pounds of thrust at full throttle.

    The U.S. Air Force last year committed more than $46 million of government funding to partially pay for the cost of accommodating the BE-4 engines on the Vulcan's first stage.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126322.png)
    Artist's concept of ULA's Vulcan rocket, powered by two BE-4 engines and strap-on solid rocket boosters. Credit: ULA

    Development of the BE-4 engine itself is a commercial effort, primarily funded by Blue Origin, with additional investment by ULA. Officials have not disclosed the BE-4's development cost, but Bruno said new rocket engines of its scale have typically cost about $1 billion to design, test, and certify.

    The Air Force has obligated at least $115 million to the AR1 engine project in a cost-sharing arrangement with ULA and Aerojet Rocketdyne.

    ULA engineers are designing two versions of the Vulcan first stage in case company managers pick either of the candidate engines.

    Both engines use oxygen-rich staged combustion technology, a technique that minimizes propellant waste during launch. The BE-4 will burn a combination of super-cold liquified natural gas and liquid oxygen, while the AR1 consumes kerosene fuel at room temperature.

    In the case of the BE-4, the Vulcan first stage will measure around 16.7 feet (5.1 meters) in diameter. The wider propellant tanks are needed to hold the BE-4's methane fuel, which is less dense than the RP-1 kerosene fuel used by the RD-180 and AR1.

    The AR1 variant of the Vulcan launcher would have a first stage closer in design to the Atlas 5, which has a diameter of about 12.5 feet (3.8 meters). The AR1 engine will produce more than 500,000 pounds of thrust at sea level.

    Aerojet Rocketdyne says the AR1 is the lowest-risk engine option for the Vulcan and offers the fastest path to end ULA's reliance on Russian engines to send U.S. military payloads into orbit.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126323.jpg)
    Artist's illustration of the twin AR1 engine package proposed by Aerojet Rocketdyne for the Vulcan rocket. Credit: Aerojet Rocketdyne

    Both engine candidates are designed to cost less than similarly-sized U.S.-made rocket engines, such as the RS-68 engine on the Delta 4 rocket and the reusable RS-25 engine built for the space shuttle and now being modified for NASA's huge Space Launch System.

    ULA launches the lion's share of U.S. national security satellites, but its hold on the military launch market has loosened with SpaceX now allowed to compete for Pentagon launch contracts.

    Bruno said the both versions of the Vulcan will have a lengthened first stage to hold more propellant, taking full advantage of the power of the twin BE-4 or AR1 engines, which will deliver over a million pounds of combined thrust, higher than the 860,000 pounds of thrust fr om the RD-180 engine.

    Blue Origin kicked off the design of the BE-4 engine in 2011, and ULA officials previously said the BE-4 development schedule was about two years ahead of the AR1's timeline.

    Bruno said Blue Origin originally intended the BE-4 to produce about 400,000 pounds of thrust. The engine was initially conceived for Blue Origin's own orbital launcher, now named New Glenn.

    Blue Origin agreed to increase the power of the BE-4 for ULA, Bruno said.

    The head start and steady funding stream fr om Bezos, who is now ranked as the second-richest person in the world, give the BE-4 an advantage in the competition with the AR1, Bruno said.

    "Normally, when you're developing an engine, you start testing at a relatively low-scale — 10, 20 sometimes 25 percent — and you test components, then you jump to full-scale," Bruno said. "Blue was already developing this engine for their New Glenn vehicle when we entered our partnership.

    "They were at 400,000 pounds of thrust. We asked them to increase it to 550, which they've done," he said. "But that meant that when we started working together, they already had hardware at 80 percent scale. They finished testing that hardware, and now they're at 100 percent scale."

    The AR1 engine's development got a "cold start" when ULA started working with Aerojet Rocketdyne, Bruno said.

    "They're still at the sub-scale component level," Bruno said. "They've been testing their preburner, which is like a miniature version of their main engine's combustion chamber that powers the powerpack, so they've been testing that and other components.

    "Both of them are doing fine, but they just happen to be in different places on those development timelines," he said.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126324.jpg)
    ULA chief executive Tory Bruno. Credit: Space Foundation

    Meyerson said the BE-4 engine can be recovered and reused up to 100 times. Seven BE-4 engines will propel the company's heavy-lift New Glenn rocket into space.

    Engineers contend the methane fuel used on the BE-4 makes it easier to reuse than kerosene-fueled engines like the AR1 and SpaceX's Merlin powerplant, leaving less soot and other contaminants that might need to be cleaned out between flights.

    In an update emailed to news media last month, Bezos said Blue Origin's engineers installed new hydrostatic bearings inside the BE-4 turbopump to replace traditional ball and roller bearings, reducing contact between engine parts between startup and shutdown as the the pump produces 70,000 horsepower fr om a turbine spinning at 19,000 rpm.

    "Why do we go to all this trouble instead of just using traditional bearings? Engine life," Bezos wrote. "We're relentlessly focused on reusability, and properly designed hydrostatic bearings offer the potential for longer engine life without refurbishment. This is one of the many engineering decisions we've made that we hope will lead to reusability – not just in principle – but to practical, operational reusability."

    ULA plans to begin recovering the Vulcan's BE-4 engines, if they are selected, around 2024 using a giant parafoil that can be plucked out of the sky with a helicopter. The first stage structure will crash into the ocean and be discarded.

    ULA officials say their approach salvages the engines, which represent about 70 percent of the cost of the first stage, without reserving fuel and adding steering and landing mechanisms for flyback maneuvers like SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket.

    Bruno called SpaceX's reflight of a previously-used Falcon 9 rocket stage March 30 a "tremendous engineering accomplishment."

    "The notion of booster recovery has been around for a long time, as well as things like single stage to oribt, which implies recovery, so I think it was a great accomplishment, and I had total confidence that they would get it done," Bruno said.

    "The reason you do it is an economic reason," he said. "It's in order to lower the cost of what would otherwise be a fully expendable launch service. The jury is still out on what is the best way to do that. They have a full booster recovey concept. We're working on a concept wh ere we recover just the engines because it turns out two-thirds of the price of that booster is in literally one part — it's just the engine."

    The BE-4 is, by far, the most powerful methane-fueled rocket engine ever built. That adds to the importance of the upcoming ground test campaign in West Texas, according to Bruno.

    "Whenever you develop a new liquid rocket engine, if you change the fuel, or if you stay with the same fuel and change the scale of the engine, or if you keep the scale, keep the fuel but change the thermodynamic cycle ... Any one of those three variables can create a situation we call combustion instability," Bruno said.

    All three variables are new with the BE-4.

    "It's just like if you went out to start your car (in cold weather), you start it up and it idles rough for a few minutes, and then it warms up and everything's cool," he said. "That is actually combustion instability in your car's engine.

    "When a rocket engine is sitting there putting out hundreds of thousands of horsepower, those few seconds can tear your engine up," Bruno said. "So it's one of the technical issues we deal with in engine development.

    "Blue Origin's engine is methane," he added. "This will the largest scale we've ever done in methane, therefore, combustion instability is an inherent technical risk."

    The first sequence of BE-4 hotfire tests will tell engineers if the engine has any such hiccups at startup.

    "It's not unusual, by the way, to have some instability when you develop a new engine," Bruno said. "There are tried and true techniques that you apply to smooth that out. If they work right way, you're usually home free. I've never developed an engine that I didn't have to tune, but I have been in situations wh ere you tried the tried and true things, then nothing works, and nine months later you're still stuck. That's the risk we're retiring here."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Зловредный от 19.04.2017 10:58:04
    Цитироватьtnt22 пишет:
    The advanced upper stage will be capable of refueling in space and can generate its own electricity with an on-board fuel cell, allowing it to loiter in orbit for weeks or months to conduct multiple missions as a space tug.
    О, смотрите. Не копируют Маска с его reusability, а делают что-то своё и по-своему. А делать такое же или подобное тому, как у конкурента -- это сразу же записать себя в догоняющие, отстающие то-есть.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 19.04.2017 07:44:22
    ЦитироватьЗловредный пишет:
    О, смотрите. Не копируют Маска с его reusability, а делают что-то своё и по-своему. А делать такое же или подобное тому, как у конкурента -- это сразу же записать себя в догоняющие, отстающие то-есть.
    Одноразовый Вулкан с Центавром будет не раньше 2019. ACES хотят делать до 2023, многоразовый (ужос-ужос, копирование Маска) хвост - до 2024. Орбитальная заправка ACESов и байкалы в качестве боковушек - между 2024 и 2035. У Маска многоразовость уже есть а к Вулкан с Центавром будет и многоразовый Фалькон-Хэви с ПН чуть меньше Вулкана с ACES. Сейчас Юлу спасает статистика запусков и способность запускать очень тяжелую ПН. Второе закончится с приходом Ф-Х (а к полноценному Вулкану уже и ITS появится), от первого Юла сама вынуждена отказаться переходя на Вулкан.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Зловредный от 19.04.2017 12:08:41
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    многоразовый (ужос-ужос, копирование Маска) хвост
    И здесь не копирование
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 19.04.2017 08:51:29
    ЦитироватьЗловредный пишет:
    И здесь не копирование
    А имитация бурной деятельности.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 22.04.2017 00:28:39
    ЦитироватьAtlas V Launch Complex 41 CRS-7 360 VR 4K
      (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/220778.jpg)  (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5HxaYF39WjEhdEKJWeby2A)
     Space News 360 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5HxaYF39WjEhdEKJWeby2A)

    Опубликовано: 19 апр. 2017 г.

    360 degree panoramic VR video of the United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket vertical at launch complex 41 for the CRS-7 mission.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INMA_QX6-C4
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INMA_QX6-C4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INMA_QX6-C4) (7:22)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 22.04.2017 00:33:45
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    А имитация бурной деятельности
    Где Вы её бурную узрели?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 09:25:26
     Накроется ЮЛА и иже с ней, где Маск спецов там подготовленных будет брать?  У него же настоящий проходной двор, в этом плане. Выжимает по-максимуму одних, затем нанимает других. Полагаете, что все технологии сделали студенты, что согласны были делать ракеты за еду? Я смотрю у него уже китайцев прилично появилось. Эти да, будут, но у них есть собственный план, и Маск в нём просто ступень.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 22.04.2017 10:09:56
    ULA создавалась под войну и госзаказы. Умрет она по желанию заказчиков, не раньше.
    Для этого нужно хоть для видимости загрузить две родительские компании заказами иначе будут вопли на тему рабочих мест и упадка космонавтики. Но до этого еще слишком далеко и Вулкан может оказаться удачным носителем и продержаться несколько лет пока многоразовые носители наработают свою кратность и станут привычным делом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 22.04.2017 12:19:18
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Накроется ЮЛА и иже с ней, где Маск спецов там подготовленных будет брать?
    А что - всех спецов в связи с ликвидацией ULA FBI обещало расстрелять для сохранения военной тайны?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 11:44:54
     Нет, но всем работа у Маска и у Безоса не найдётся, уйдут на другие направления, из которых многие не вернутся. У Маска всё заоптимизировано, лишние повышают цену пусков. Слишком малая кастрюля, где готовятся спецы. У Безоса же всё завязано на него самого, без его личного фанатства всё завянет в момент. Тем более, что его ракеты не вписываются в рыночную ситуацию на данные десятилетия.
     Специалистам нужны крупные многотысячные компании,с достаточным финансированием исследований и разработок, где они могут сосредоточится на узких специализациях, а не лоукостер, экономящий на переработке и совмещении обязанностей работников.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 22.04.2017 08:22:08
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Накроется ЮЛА и иже с ней, где Маск спецов там подготовленных будет брать?
    Можно пример хоть одного перебежчика из Юлы в СпейсИкс?
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Выжимает по-максимуму одних, затем нанимает других.
    Мюллер и Шотвелл в недоумении.
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Полагаете, что все технологии сделали студенты, что согласны были делать ракеты за еду?
    Ну да большинство новых технологий реально делают именно студенты с аспирантами.
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    А что - всех спецов в связи с ликвидацией ULA FBI обещало расстрелять для сохранения военной тайны?
    Мне вот интересней какие такие супер-технологии есть в Юле что Маск без них ни как не обойдется?
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Тем более, что его ракеты не вписываются в рыночную ситуацию на данные десятилетия.
    У вас таки есть подробности по ракетам Безоса или вы просто свои эротические фантазии транслируете?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 12:43:37
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Можно пример хоть одного перебежчика из Юлы в СпейсИкс?
     Я что, к отделу кадров Маска имею доступ? Почему именно из Юлы, я более широко имел ввиду.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    эротические фантазии транслируете?
     Через эту призму на мир смотрите? Подробности про ракеты Безоса есть, рыночных перспектив у них не вижу. Переразмерены. Про суборбитальный  аттракцион вообще молчу.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 22.04.2017 14:25:19
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Подробности про ракеты Безоса есть, рыночных перспектив у них не вижу. Переразмерены.
    Ну, во первых - что вы считаете переразмеренным? Какие там ПН планируются? А размер - следствие того, что они во первых - метановые, во вторых - многоразовые...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 22.04.2017 14:26:15
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Почему именно из Юлы, я более широко имел ввиду.
    Ну, сам же пишешь:
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Накроется ЮЛА и иже с ней, где Маск спецов там подготовленных будет брать?
    Где тут более широко?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 14:09:37
    " иже с ней" т.е. космические отделы Боинга и ЛМ. Церковнословянский не понимаете?  :-)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 22.04.2017 15:12:35
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    " иже с ней" т.е. космические отделы Боинга и ЛМ
    А что, ULA  не относится к космическим отделам Боинга и ЛМ? А так - да, виноват, не обратил внимания...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 14:22:07
     Да относится, только вот все космические части Б и ЛМ не входят в Юлу, только пускачи.  То есть профи с Боинга и ЛМ у Маска нет, чисто выпускниками комплектовался. Они ему и Мерлин нарисовали и б/у атласовское сварное оборудование выпилили,абляцию и т.д. и т.п.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 14:32:22
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Ну, во первых - что вы считаете переразмеренным? Какие там ПН планируются?
     Нью-Гленн - 13 т. на ГПО. нахрена столько? Опыт пятой Арианы не учит?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 22.04.2017 14:47:26
    В том то и дело, что NewGlenn создавался ни как коммерческий носитель для ГПО. До сих пор не вовсе понятны планы Безоса. Чё он вообще хочет? А-аа?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.04.2017 14:49:27
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Ну, во первых - что вы считаете переразмеренным? Какие там ПН планируются?
    Нью-Гленн - 13 т. на ГПО. нахрена столько? Опыт пятой Арианы не учит?
    Опыт Ариан учит что 10 мало, а 13 в самый раз.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 22.04.2017 10:57:05
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Я что, к отделу кадров Маска имею доступ?
    О том что бегут от Маска в Юлу можно узнать прямо из этой темы (правда понадобится отмотать до 2015) или реддита Тори Бруно. Причем перебежавший в том реддите хвастался как хорошо у Бруно и плохо у Маска - у последнего работать надо иногда без выходных. И за вдвое меньшие деньги. А на сайте СпейсИкс можно узнать требования к кандидатам - заходите как найдете там опыт работы в Юле.
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Почему именно из Юлы, я более широко имел ввиду.
    "Более широко" Мюллер как пришел из TRW так до сих пор работает.
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Да относится, только вот все космические части Б и ЛМ не входят в Юлу, только пускачи.
    И много от туда пришло к Маску на 80 килобаксов в год с ненормированным рабочим днем?
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    Нью-Гленн - 13 т. на ГПО. нахрена столько?
    13 тонн на ГПО почем? При достаточно низкой цене будут брать либо заменять легкие и дорогие решения тяжелыми и дешевыми либо искать попутку.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 15:43:40
    ЦитироватьИскандер пишет:
    До сих пор не вовсе понятны планы Безоса. Чё он вообще хочет?
     - В чём разница между чуваком, клеющим танчики и Безосом, разрабатывающим ракеты?
     - В уровне доходов. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 15:55:58
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Опыт Ариан учит что 10 мало, а 13 в самый раз.
     Не! Опыт А5 учит, что на высококонкурентном, незагруженном рынке запусков носителям на два спутника трудно найти клиентов, которые согласны на задержки и ограничения вызванные соседними аппаратами. Ракеты на один спутник более гибки в этом плане.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 16:09:02
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    13 тонн на ГПО почем?
     По хорошей дружбе, если соберёте деньги и построете марсианский корабль, Безос с радостью запустит забесплатно. Фанат всегда поймёт фаната. Хотя жаль, что он не фанат гигантких шагающих человекообразных роботов. На миллиард долларов в год, лет через пять, можно было бы сделать очень впечатляющую машину.  :-)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.04.2017 18:01:50
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Опыт Ариан учит что 10 мало, а 13 в самый раз.
    Не! Опыт А5 учит, что на высококонкурентном, незагруженном рынке запусков носителям на два спутника трудно найти клиентов, которые согласны на задержки и ограничения вызванные соседними аппаратами. Ракеты на один спутник более гибки в этом плане.
    Проблем с поиском клиентов на Ариан нет. Есть проблема подбора легкого спутника в пару к тяжелому.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 22.04.2017 18:38:11
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Проблем с поиском клиентов на Ариан нет. Есть проблема подбора легкого спутника в пару к тяжелому.
     Второе предложение противоречит первому.

    На 13 тонн тоже трудно будет находить нагрузку регулярно,так что бы ракета не простаивала,была не недогружена. Хотя бы вышла в прибыль, забыв про первоначальные затраты, что бы была жизнеспособна. 
     Сильно вряд ли. Но у дядюшки Безоса  достаточно средств,что бы спонсировать своё хобби пожизненно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 23.04.2017 04:35:48
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Опыт Ариан учит что 10 мало, а 13 в самый раз.
    Два тяжелых спутника на ГПО? Чтоб легче подбирать пару?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Kap от 23.04.2017 01:42:32
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    По хорошей дружбе, если соберёте деньги и построете марсианский корабль, Безос с радостью запустит забесплатно.
    Так все-таки?

    И да что на счет толп специалистов из Боинга и Локхида стройными рядами марширующими к Маску чтобы он их поматросил и выбросил?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 23.04.2017 09:23:45
     
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    Так все-таки?
     Конфидициальная информация.
    ЦитироватьKap пишет:
    что на счет толп
     По вашему опытных спецов из других контор пришедших, у Маска нет? Всё сами? И работавшие в Б и ЛМ в СпацеХ не устраивались? Гарантируете это?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 23.04.2017 10:59:22
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    По вашему опытных спецов из других контор пришедших, у Маска нет?
    Ну есть - тот же Мюллер, например. Все остальное - ваши измышлизмы...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 23.04.2017 10:12:37
    Цитироватьoby1 пишет:
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Проблем с поиском клиентов на Ариан нет. Есть проблема подбора легкого спутника в пару к тяжелому.
    Второе предложение противоречит первому.

    На 13 тонн тоже трудно будет находить нагрузку регулярно,так что бы ракета не простаивала,была не недогружена. Хотя бы вышла в прибыль, забыв про первоначальные затраты, что бы была жизнеспособна.
     Сильно вряд ли. Но у дядюшки Безоса достаточно средств,что бы спонсировать своё хобби пожизненно.

    https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/816630210518990850

    ЦитироватьPeter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes (https://twitter.com/pbdes)

    Arianespace(5): 13 openly competed GTO sat launch contracts signed in 2016. We won 7 (inc 2 unnamed), SpaceX got 3, ILS 2, China 1.

    Арианспейсу удается находить нагрузку на 10 т, хотя это ограничивает выбор спутников. Почему кому-то должно быть трудно находить нагрузки на 13 т если при этом выбор будет практически неограничен?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: oby1 от 23.04.2017 14:22:03
     Рынок запусков не резиновый. Новый игрок отнимет заказы у старых. СпацеХ угробил МС ( и Ц4 не родившийся), дожимает ИЛС. Влезет ГолубойОригинал - заказов больше не станет. Ну отберёт кусок пирога у Маска и Арианы, всё равно никогда не окупится.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: октоген от 23.04.2017 13:53:23
    Вывод таков: наплевать на коммерцию. Делать носитель строго для себя. Основное бабло получать с предоставления спутниковых услуг.  А извоз если есть-хорошо, нету-тоже не плохо.

    П.С. ангара на роль носителя "для себя" не катит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 24.04.2017 03:31:29
    Цитироватьоктоген пишет:
    Основное бабло получать с предоставления спутниковых услуг
    Ну, платформы мы худо-бедно делать научились... А ПН будем  закупать по прежнему? Ну, если так - шансы есть некоторые...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 24.04.2017 03:32:26
    Цитироватьоктоген пишет:
    П.С. ангара на роль носителя "для себя" не катит.
    Это наш Титан-4... И закончит так же если не хуже...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Echidna от 24.04.2017 07:23:05
    Платформы делать научились в каком смысле? Устанавливая импортные датчики и приборы на них? Или собирая свои из импортных ЭРИ? Жаль нет адекватных оценок того, на сколько та или иная платформа повторима при действительном отказе от зарубежных компонент.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 24.04.2017 03:55:58
    ЦитироватьEchidna пишет:
    Платформы делать научились в каком смысле? Устанавливая импортные датчики и приборы на них? Или собирая свои из импортных ЭРИ?
    Если и так, то что в этом плохого?
    Никто в мире не делает все сам.
    Это бессмысленно (если конечно вы всерьез не намерены воевать со всем миром).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 24.04.2017 05:29:35
    ЦитироватьAlex_II пишет:
    Это наш Титан-4... И закончит так же если не хуже...
    титан-4 достойно завершил семейство
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 25.04.2017 10:01:13
    ЦитироватьInnovation Panel, 33rd Space Symposium, Colorado Springs, Colorado
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/220784.jpg)  (https://www.youtube.com/user/NASAgovVideo)
    NASA.gov Video (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_aP7p621ATY_yAa8jMqUVA)

    Опубликовано: 24 апр. 2017 г.

    The Innovation Panel, held at the 33rd Space Symposium in Colorado Springs, Colorado on April 5, 2017, brought together a unique balance of innovators, industry leaders, investors and government experts. The panel highlighted NASA iTech as an effective and efficient initiative NASA has developed to foster innovation in a non-traditional way.
    Moderated by Kira Blackwell, Program Executive, Office of the Chief Technologist, NASA Headquarters, the "Innovation" panel featured:
    • Salvatore T. "Tory" Bruno, President and Chief Executive Officer, United Launch Alliance (ULA)
    • Marilyn J. Bruno, Ph.D., Chief Executive Officer, Aequor, Inc.
    • Riccardo Di Blasio, IT Executive and Investor
    • Peter M. Hughes, Chief Technologist, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center
    • Jose H. Ocasio-Christian, Chief Executive Officer, Caelus Partners, LLC
    • David Sinclair, Ph.D., Professor, Harvard Medical School Chief Scientist Liberty BioSecurity
    • Anup Singh, Co-Founder & Chief Science Officer, InnaMed
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzZOqKiKfpw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzZOqKiKfpw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzZOqKiKfpw) (1:10:58 )
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Alex_II от 25.04.2017 13:00:39
    Цитироватьsilentpom пишет:
    титан-4 достойно завершил семейство
    Число запусков
    39
     — успешных
    35
     — неудачных
    4
    Первый запуск
    14 июня (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/14_%D0%B8%D1%8E%D0%BD%D1%8F) 1989 (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989)
    Последний запуск
    19 октября (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/19_%D0%BE%D0%BA%D1%82%D1%8F%D0%B1%D1%80%D1%8F) 2005 (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005)
    Ну, настолько хорошие результаты Ангаре-5 уже не грозят, тут всё же по 1-2 запуска в год было... А не второй запуск через 6 лет после первого...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 11.06.2017 18:03:56
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg) Tory Bruno‏Подлинная учетная запись @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) 2 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/873886512038813696)

    Centaur celebrating Atlas 60th B-Day with a high performance chorus line in Decatur
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/163401.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 30.06.2017 17:10:27
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/163988.jpg)

    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-wins-competitive-stp3-contract.aspx
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Wins Competitive Contract Award to Launch the United States Air Force STP-3 Mission

    Centennial, Colo. (June 29, 2017) – The United States Air Force announced today that United Launch Alliance (ULA) was awarded a contract to launch the Space Test Program-3 (STP-3) mission. This contract resulted from a competitive award under the Air Force's Phase 1A procurement strategy.

    "We are honored that the Air Force has entrusted ULA with launching this important test mission," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "ULA offers the most reliable ride to space. With a mission success record of 100 percent and a tremendous heritage of 71 consecutive successful Atlas V launches, we provide the best overall launch service for our customers. ULA is the choice for customers when a critical payload must be delivered to space on-time and safely."

    The STP-3 mission is scheduled to launch in the summer of 2019 from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. This mission will launch aboard an Atlas V 551 vehicle.
    Спойлер
    ULA also launched the first Space Test Program mission in March 2007. The launch marked the first Air Force Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle mission on an Atlas V and the first Atlas V mission for ULA.

    The STP-3 mission consists of a primary space vehicle (STPSat-6) and an integrated propulsive EELV Secondary Payload Adapter (ESPA) holding up to six payloads (IP-ESPA). The STPSat-6 space vehicle will host the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA), Space and Atmospheric Burst Reporting System-3 (SABRS-3) payload, and the NASA Laser Communications Relay Demonstration (LCRD) payload. Additionally, seven science and technology (S&T) payloads are manifested by the Department of Defense Space Test Program on STPSat-6.

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 115 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 30.06.2017 21:44:01
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/06/30/air-force-selects-atlas-5-to-launch-multipurpose-satellite-to-high-orbit/
    ЦитироватьAir Force selects Atlas 5 to launch multipurpose satellite to high orbit
    June 30, 2017 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/06/) Justin Ray (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126541.jpg)
    An Atlas 5-551 will launch the Air Force's STP 3 mission. Credit: ULA

    CAPE CANAVERAL — A nuclear blast detection satellite and an assortment of experiments will be boosted directly into geosynchronous orbit 22,300 miles above Earth in 2019 by the most-powerful version of United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 rocket, the Air Force has decided.
    Спойлер
    The Atlas 5, fitted with its maximum of five side-mounted solid rocket boosters for the greatest thrust, was awarded the Space Test Program 3 mission under a firm-fixed price, standalone contract with a value of $191,141,581.

    "The competitive award of the STP-3 launch services contract to United Launch Alliance directly supports SMC's mission of delivering resilient and affordable space capabilities to our nation," said Lt. Gen. John F. Thompson, Air Force program executive officer for space and the Space and Missile Systems Center commander at Los Angeles Air Force Base.

    STP 3 is the third National Security Space launch competed between ULA's stable of rockets and SpaceX's Falcon 9. Two earlier GPS launches went to SpaceX.

    The emergence of SpaceX into the market sparked competition for some missions that fall within the overlapping launch capabilities of both SpaceX and ULA. Heavier missions exceeding the Falcon's ability to lift them to the desired orbit, however, continue to be sole-sourced to ULA.

    "Yesterday's award of the STP 3 launch services contract marks the third of 15 competitively-procured launches for Phase 1A. This was a 'best value' source selection in accordance with the federal acquisition regulations," said Claire Leon, Space and Missile Systems Center's Launch Enterprise director.

    The STP 3 mission is the dual launch of the primary spacecraft — known as Space Test Program Satellite 6 (STPSat 6) — and a propulsive Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle Secondary Payload Adapter carrying as many as six small payloads.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126542.jpg)
    Illustration of different orbits. Credit: ULA

    Under terms of the contract, the Atlas 5 must deliver a threshold mass of 7,202 pounds and may lift up to the objective mass of 10,024 pounds directly to geosynchronous orbit at an inclination of 0 degrees. The exact mass will be decided based upon the ESPA payload selection.

    ULA has experience with direct insertions to GEO, successfully launching seven missions for the National Reconnaissance Office and Air Force to that orbit in its 119 flights to date. Heritage Centaur missions have done countless GEO launches as well.

    The Atlas 5-551 is scheduled to perform a GEO direct mission for the Air Force next spring.

    It is a complex trek requiring three firings of the upper stage to reach a parking orbit, then a geosynchronous transfer orbit and a final burn about five hours after liftoff to reach a circular geosynchronous altitude that matches Earth's rotation to stay in lockstep with one area of the globe.

    After deploying the STP 3 payloads, the Air Force will require the Centaur upper stage to further maneuver into a safe disposal orbit.

    "We are honored that the Air Force has entrusted ULA with launching this important test mission," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO.

    "ULA offers the most reliable ride to space. With a mission success record of 100 percent and a tremendous heritage of 71 consecutive successful Atlas 5 launches, we provide the best overall launch service for our customers. ULA is the choice for customers when a critical payload must be delivered to space on-time and safely."

    STPSat 6 will host the National Nuclear Security Administration's Space and Atmospheric Burst Reporting System 3 (SABRS 3) package and NASA's Laser Communications Relay Demonstration (LCRD).

    What's more, the Department of Defense's Space Test Program will fit an additional seven experiments on the satellite.

    The ESPA payloads will be identified no later than 12 months prior to launch.

    SABRS 3 is the geosynchronous element of the dispersed United States Nuclear Detonation Detection System that provides near real-time worldwide, highly survivable capability to detect, locate and
     report any nuclear detonations in the Earth's atmosphere or in near space.

    LCRD will investigate potential breakthrough technology to send and receive data, video and other information using lasers at rates 10 to 100 times faster than today's fastest RF radios. It could be incorporated into NASA's future data-relay systems.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126543.jpg)
    Illustration of the STP 3 pre-launch integration plan. Credit: Air Force

    A surplus satellite bus was repurposed for STPSat 6, and Orbital ATK was awarded a sole-source contract in February to perform integration and support services for the STP 3 mission.

    Under that contract, Orbital ATK will integrate and test the spacecraft, deliver operations procedures, and support launch and on-orbit check-out.

    "The capability to modify one of our current buses into a multipurpose spacecraft demonstrates Orbital ATK's proven history of doing whatever it takes to meet the needs of our customers," said Chris Long, vice president of National Space Systems at Orbital ATK.

    "This flexible and modular satellite bus platform provides an especially unique opportunity to host multiple instruments from three departments of government on one spacecraft, achieving customer goals at an affordable price."

    The Air Force put five other National Security Space launches out for bids from ULA and SpaceX on Thursday, including three more GPS 3 satellites and two Air Force missions directly to geosynchronous orbit in 2020 — the Wide Field of View (WFOV) Testbed missile-warning satellite and another propulsive ESPA amounting to about 6,300 pounds in a launch known as AFSPC 12 and a third pair of Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program spacecraft, known as GSSAP 5 and 6, amounting to 3,000 pounds under the mission known of AFSPC 8.

    Proposals are due back to the Air Force no later than August 14. The contracts for the launches are expected to be awarded within about six months.

    Further competitions are planned for a batch of five missions — NROL-85, L-87 and L-107, a SBIRS GEO satellite and AFSPC 44 — a standalone fight for AFSPC 52 and one for GPS 3-07.

    That represents all Air Force missions needing to purchase rockets through 2020, except for the launches of three large-class NRO payloads that SpaceX has chosen not to contest. Those will be sole-sourced to Delta 4-Heavy rockets to carry in the early 2020s.

    Also, Leon said all 36 cores under the EELV Block Buy have now been assigned. That news comes just weeks after the Air Force assigned the AEHF 6 nuclear-survivable communications satellite to the Atlas 5-551 and upgraded the AEHF 5 launch vehicle from a 541 to a 551 due to mission requirements.

    "These are really dynamic times for EELV program. Launch is obviously fundamental to our nation's critical space capabilities. M y old boss used to say satellites are potted plants without the launch capability," Leon said.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 07.07.2017 23:41:31
    http://spacenews.com/air-force-ask-spacex-ula-to-bid-on-a-five-launch-contract/
    ЦитироватьAir Force asks SpaceX, ULA to bid on a five-launch contract
    by Phillip Swarts (http://spacenews.com/author/phillip-swarts/) — July 5, 2017

    WASHINGTON — The Air Force announced it is soliciting proposals for five upcoming launches — the largest group it has posted since certifying SpaceX to compete with United Launch Alliance for launch contracts.

    Claire Leon, director of the Launch Enterprise Directorate at the Air Force's Space and Missile Systems Center, told reporters that grouping launches together was an effort to streamline and speed the acquisition process at a time when the national security sector is demanding ever-increasing access to space.
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155540.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket launches NROL-55 mission. Credit: ULA

    "By doing five at once, it makes our acquisition more efficient and it allows the contractors to put in one proposal," she said.

    The Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) Launch Service contracts included in the request for proposal (RFP) are Air Force Space Command Satellite 8 and Satellite 12, and a three GPS 3 launches.

    Interested companies have until Aug. 14 to submit proposals, but must bid on all five launches. A waiver to not bid on a particular launch will only be granted if there are technical concerns, Leon said.

    AFSPC-8 will carry two Geosynchronous Space Situational Awareness Program satellites, GSSAP-5 and 6. The GSSAP program is an Air Force effort to deploy satellites that can keep an eye on the geostationary orbital belt 36,000 kilometers above the equator, as well as other orbits, to track satellite movements and improve attribution should any problems arise. The launch is scheduled for spring 2020.

    AFSPC-12 will carry two space vehicles: the Wide Field of View Testbed and a propulsive EELV Secondary Payload Adapter, the Air Force said. Both are aiming for geosynchronous orbit, and are scheduled to lift off in early 2020.

    The service did not say when the three Lockheed Martin-built GPS 3 satellite launches are scheduled for. Delays in the program have repeatedly pushed back the schedule, and the first satellite in the program has yet to launch.

    Two more bidding opportunities are expected before the end of 2017. Leon said the service would put out an RFP for AFSPC-52 in August, and another batch of five launches grouped together sometime before the end of the year.

    That next group of five launches would include three missions for the National Reconnaissance Office — NROL-85, -87, and -107 — one satellite for the Space Based Infrared Systems missile-warning constellation, and AFSPC-44. Leon said it's possible that another GPS 3 launch might be added to the group as well.


    SpaceX

    Although United Launch Alliance has long been the military's sole source for national security launches, the desire to develop competition in the field has many looking to Elon Musk's SpaceX.

    SpaceX, however, would need a heavy-lift vehicle to successfully win some of the upcoming launch bids, Leon said. The company's Falcon Heavy is not yet certified for military launches.

    "It would need to be certified by the time that we awarded the contract," Leon said. "We want to see one flight, and before we would actually fly a mission we would want to see three flights."

    SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell said late last month that Falcon Heavy is on track to debut later this year and should fly a total of three times within the next 18 months.

    For the first part of the Pentagon's competitive space launch contracts — dubbed Phase 1A — the Air Force has decided not to allow previously flown boosters for any missions.

    Leon said that approving reusable-rocket technology would require an entirely new certification process, at a time when the military wants to focus certifying things like the Falcon Heavy or new entrants like Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin.

    However, the service is open to eventually accepting reusable technology as part of a company's bid.

    "We are trying to reduce the cost of launch, and if this is the offering from commercial providers we need to get on board," Leon said. "It's just going to take us a little bit of time, but it is something we are starting to study first. Longer term my hope is any company that's offering flight proven hardware demonstrates or develops a track record that helps us build confidence."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 13.07.2017 16:58:42
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg)  Tory Bruno‏Подлинная учетная запись @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno)  10 июл. (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/884463600160694272)  
    Tory Bruno Ретвитнул(а) Doug Mohney
    3 months from the phone call. 17 days from the satellite ready at the launch site
    Tory Bruno добавил(а),
    Цитировать  (https://twitter.com/DougonTech/status/884453734205489153)  
     Doug Mohney @DougonTech
     В ответ @torybruno
    How fast can you launch an Atlas V mission these days?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 13.07.2017 21:28:33
    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/07/starliner-milestones-ula-switches-atlas-booster-maiden-flight/
    ЦитироватьStarliner meets milestones as ULA switches Atlas booster for maiden flight
    July 13, 2017 by Chris Gebhardt

    ...

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/209201.jpg)

    Meanwhile, as construction efforts for Starliner continue on pace for a June launch of the OFT, United Launch Alliance (ULA) (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=ULA) has made the decision to swap the Atlas V first stage booster that will power the first Starliner to orbit.

    Originally, the OFT mission had been slated to launch on AV-082, Atlas Vehicle 82.

    According to the latest information, that has now changed on ULA's end, with the company opting to swap AV-082 for AV-080.

    While the reason for the first stage Atlas V (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=Atlas+V) swap is unknown, the change to the first stage is expected to have little effect on flight operations or NASA's clearance to launch the OFT mission to the ISS next year.

    ...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 19.07.2017 17:21:49
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 5 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/887675697787015168)

    .@SierraNevCorp (https://twitter.com/SierraNevCorp) has sel ected ULA's #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) rocket to launch its Dream Chaser cargo mission to the @Space_Station (https://twitter.com/Space_Station).
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/ula-signs-contract-with-sierra-nevada-crs2.aspx
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Signs Contract with Sierra Nevada Corporation to Launch Dream Chaser® Spacecraft to Deliver Cargo to International Space Station

    Centennial, Colo., (July 19, 2017) – Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) announced that it sel ected United Launch Alliance's (ULA's) commercially developed Atlas V rocket to launch the first two missions of its Dream Chaser cargo system in support of NASA's Cargo Resupply Services 2 (CRS2) contract.

    "ULA is pleased to partner with Sierra Nevada Corporation to launch its Dream Chaser cargo system to the International Space Station in less than three years," said Gary Wentz, ULA vice president of Human and Commercial Systems. "We recognize the importance of on time and reliable transportation of crew and cargo to Station and are honored the Atlas V was selected to continue to launch cargo resupply missions for NASA."

    The two awarded Atlas V missions will carry pressurized and unpressurized cargo to the International Space Station (ISS). The first mission is set to lift off in 2020 fr om Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, in Florida. The second contracted mission is scheduled to lift off in 2021. Dream Chaser will launch atop an Atlas V 552, with a dual engine Centaur upper stage.
    Спойлер
    "SNC recognizes the proven reliability of the Atlas V rocket and its availability and schedule performance makes it the right choice for the first two flights of the Dream Chaser," said Mark Sirangelo, corporate vice president of SNC's Space Systems business area. "ULA is an important player in the market and we appreciate their history and continued contributions to space flights and are pleased to support the aerospace community in Colorado and Alabama," added Sirangelo.

    The Atlas V has received NASA's highest and most rigorous Category 3 Certification, which allows the Atlas V family of launch vehicles to fly NASA's most complex and critical missions.

    The Dream Chaser spacecraft has been in development for more than 10 years, including six years as part of NASA's Commercial Crew Program and leverages more than 40 years of NASA spaceflight and space shuttle heritage. In 2016, Dream Chaser was selected by NASA under the CRS2 contract to transport pressurized and unpressurized cargo to and fr om the ISS with return and disposal services.

    About United Launch Alliance
    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 115 satellites to orbit that aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, unlock the mysteries of our solar system, provide critical capabilities for troops in the field and enable personal device-based GPS navigation.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).

    About Sierra Nevada Corporation
    Recognized as one of "The World's Top 10 Most Innovative Companies in Space," Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC) provides customer-focused advanced technology solutions in the areas of space, aviation, electronics and systems integration. SNC's diverse technologies are used in applications including space exploration and satellites, aircraft integrations, navigation and guidance systems, threat detection and security, scientific research and infrastructure protection. Founded in 1963 and headquartered in Sparks, Nevada, SNC operates under the leadership of owners, CEO Fatih Ozmen and President Eren Ozmen, with a workforce of more than 3,000 personnel in 34 locations in 19 U.S. states, England, Germany and Turkey providing global support to customers.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 19.07.2017 23:15:49
    http://spaceflight101.com/sierra-nevada-firms-up-atlas-v-missions-for-dream-chaser/
    ЦитироватьSierra Nevada firms up Atlas V Missions for Dream Chaser Spacecraft, gears up for Flight Testing
    July 19, 2017 (http://spaceflight101.com/sierra-nevada-firms-up-atlas-v-missions-for-dream-chaser/)

    Sierra Nevada Corporation has formally signed a launch contract with United Launch Alliance for two Dream Chaser missions to deliver supplies to the International Space Station under NASA's second round of Commercial Resupply Services. Meanwhile, the company is making progress toward a resumption of atmospheric flight testing with a full-scale version of their winged space plane that will take off vertically on ULA's Atlas V rocket, re-enter the atmosphere like the Space Shuttle and glide to a runway landing.
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154042.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DE9qze4VwAEGPnW.jpg)
    Dream Chaser Runway Testing – Photo: Sierra Nevada Corporation

    Atlas V had been Dream Chaser's launch vehicle of choice ever since the first concepts for the re-usable space plane were presented in 2007 and the selection of Atlas V for operational missions was only considered a mere formality. The two missions announced on Wednesday are currently targeting 2020 and 2021; NASA and Sierra Nevada have agreed not to perform a test flight and begin with operational cargo deliveries fr om the first mission.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154040.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DE84hiZXgAALff_.jpg)
    Photo: Sierra Nevada Corporation

    NASA sel ected the Dream Chaser in January 2016 as one of three commercial vehicles for the second round of Commercial Resupply Services covering a period of 2019 through 2024, the other two companies being the current CRS-1 providers SpaceX with their Dragon and Orbital ATK with their Cygnus.

    Under the contract, NASA committed to purchasing a minimum of six resupply missions from each provider, though only one mission has been formally ordered so far. NASA cited the primary reason in adding Sierra Nevada to the mix as a desire in a robust cargo fleet as launch failures in 2013 and 2015 have showcased that even with two providers it was possible to end up in a situation wh ere none of them were in a position to fly.

    Sierra Nevada is confident that Dream Chaser will be able to take a unique position within the Station's cargo fleet. As part of their CRS-2 bid, the company updated Dream Chaser's design to feature foldable wings to fit within a five-meter payload fairing – this also broadens the range of launch vehicles that could lift future Dream Chaser missions including Europe's Ariane 6, ULA's Vulcan, Blue Origin's New Glenn and SpaceX's Falcon 9/Falcon Heavy.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154044.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154044.jpg)
    Artist's Concept of Dream Chaser docked to ISS (Expendable Cargo Carrier Missing) – Image: SNC

    Another feature added for the cargo version of Dream Chaser is an expendable cargo module affixed to the aft end of the spacecraft, capable of carrying 3,250 Kilograms of cargo to ISS in addition to 1,750 kg carried within the space plane plus up to 500kg of external hardware. The expendable container, featuring the docking interface with ISS, would drop away from Dream Chaser prior to re-entry and burn up in the atmosphere with the Station's trash while the spacecraft carries up to 1,750kg of downmass to a gentle touchdown at the Kennedy Space Center's Shuttle Landing Facility.

    One of Dream Chaser's biggest selling points is its low-G re-entry environment with peak G-forces not exceeding 1.5 Gs which is relevant for a number of scientific studies to be deployed to ISS. Dragon, as the other recoverable ISS resupply craft, subjects return hardware to higher G-loads and a much more turbulent flight environment around the time its parachutes open during final descent toward a splashdown landing in the Ocean. Landing on a runway will also enable experiments to be accessed virtually within minutes after returning from orbit.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154045.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/ula-dc_rendering_credit-ula.jpg)
    Atlas V – Dream Chaser Configuration – Image: United Launch Alliance

    Dream Chaser, weighing around 18 metric tons – will utilize the Atlas V 552 launch vehicle – the most powerful version of the workhorse launcher, featuring five Solid Rocket Boosters, a Centaur Upper Stage with two RL-10 engines for maximum push into Low Earth Orbit and a five-diameter payload fairing to enshroud Dream Chaser and its expendable cargo module during the atmospheric flight phase. The two-engine Centaur upper stage has yet to fly as part of an Atlas V stack, currently looking at a debut in mid-2018 with Boeing's CST-100 Starliner.

    "SNC recognizes the proven reliability of the Atlas V rocket and its availability and schedule performance makes it the right choice for the first two flights of the Dream Chaser," said Mark Sirangelo, corporate vice president of SNC's Space Systems business area. "ULA is an important player in the market and we appreciate their history and continued contributions to space flights and are pleased to support the aerospace community in Colorado and Alabama."

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154041.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DE8hI-VXkAAzpIJ.jpg)
    Photo: Sierra Nevada Corporation

    Gearing up for Dream Chaser's eventual first taste of space flight, Sierra Nevada is currently in the process of performing ground-based tow tests at Edwards Air Force Base as a precursor to captive carry and ultimately free flight tests to validate the craft's control and guidance system for flight.

    Dream Chaser had already been to this stage in October 2013 when completing its first free glide test that enjoyed a very smooth approach to the runway but ended with a setback when the craft's left main gear failed – a non-flight item that had been borrowed from the F-5E Tiger fighter jet. Dream Chaser managed to touch down on only one gear, but eventually skidded off the runway and somersaulted in the desert sand, suffering some structural damage.

    Sierra Nevada shipped a flight-like Engineering Test Article of the Dream Chaser spacecraft to Edwards Air Force Base adjacent to NASA's Armstrong Research Center in February 2017 to complete an extensive testing campaign. Dream Chaser completed its latest tow test this Monday, being accelerated down the runway by a truck before being cut free to study the craft's braking performance and put the guidance, navigation and control systems to the test to see whether they can keep Dream Chaser on the runway centerline – a precursor to the craft lining up with the centerline in flight.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/153993.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/4907172_orig.jpg)
    2013 Free Flight – Photo: SNC

    Captive carry tests will see the craft take flight suspended under a heavy-lift helicopter that will take it to over 3 Kilometers in altitude for an evaluation of all aerodynamic properties of the vehicle. Flight tests are currently expected to get underway later this year, starting out at similar altitudes and will see Dream Chaser pitch down to build speed before entering a simulated approach to test out all flight controls and automated landing systems. The aim of the test is to have Dream Chaser line up with runway 22L, flare up its nose just around 100 meters in altitude and come to a gentle landing on two main gear wheels and a nose skid for rollout on the runway.

    Sierra Nevada so far has passed three integration milestones since receiving its CRS-2 contract which are mandatory reviews of design documentation by NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/154039.jpg) (http://spaceflight101.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/DCTkMWYVwAA0YhD.jpg)
    Photo: Sierra Nevada Corporation

    In presentations given in 2016, NASA indicated that the first Dream Chaser missions would make use of a robotic capture and berthing before upgrading to autonomous docking of the spacecraft to the ISS – Dream Chaser's attachment mechanism developed by Belgium-based QinetiQ will be capable of both.

    In addition to its NASA missions, Dream Chaser has won over the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs (UNOOSA) that is currently developing a 2021 mission utilizing the Dream Chaser to fly around 30 scientific studies fr om UN members to space. The two-week mission to Low Earth Orbit is primarily focused on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and will be available to all UN Members including developing countries that rarely receive an opportunity to carry out research in space.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 26.07.2017 18:20:52
    https://www.astrobotic.com/2017/7/26/astrobotic-and-united-launch-alliance-announce-mission-to-the-moon
    ЦитироватьAstrobotic and United Launch Alliance Announce 
Mission to the Moon
    July 26, 2017

    Rust Belt Company, Astrobotic selects ULA to launch its Peregrine Lander in 2019 for lunar mission 50 years after Apollo 11

    Pittsburgh, PA – Astrobotic and United Launch Alliance (ULA) proudly announce today that Astrobotic's Peregrine Lunar Lander will be onboard a ULA launch vehicle in 2019, during the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11.

    "Astrobotic is thrilled to sel ect a ULA launch vehicle as the means to get Peregrine to the Moon," said John Thornton, CEO of Astrobotic. "By launching with ULA, Astrobotic can rest assured our payload customers will ride on a proven launch vehicle with a solid track record of success.  Together, our two organizations will honor the past and trail blaze the lunar future."
    Спойлер
    This effort is a big step in realizing Astrobotic's goal of creating a Rust Belt based international gateway to the Moon.  The Peregrine Lunar Lander will fly 35 kilograms of customer payloads on its first mission, with the option to upgrade to 265 kilograms on future missions.  Already 11 deals from six nations have been signed for this 2019 mission.  The first mission in 2019 will serve as a key demonstration of service for NASA, international space agencies, and companies looking to carry out missions to the Moon.  This announcement comes as Astrobotic continues to advance Peregrine toward flight, with the preliminary design review of the vehicle having already taken place in November 2016.

    "Technical credibility and signed deals remain key differentiators for Astrobotic as a lunar delivery company.  Our customers and partners know that our 10 years of lunar lander development work has made us the world leader in this market," said Thornton.

    "We are thrilled that Astrobotic has selected ULA to launch the Peregrine Lander to the Moon," said ULA president and CEO, Tory Bruno. "The Moon is the next great frontier, but in a different way than when Neil Armstrong landed there. Enabling technologies like those fr om Astrobotic will allow people to live and work in the space between here and the Moon and take advantage of all those resources in a way that is sustainable."

    ULA joins a world-class team of mission partners led by Astrobotic.  These partners include NASA, who is providing Astrobotic access to some of the best spacecraft engineers and facilities in the world, as part of NASA's Lunar CATALYST Program; Airbus DS, who brings world-class spacecraft experience in human spaceflight and exploration and leverages previous lander development work with the European Space Agency; and Deutsche Post DHL Group, the world's leading mail and logistics company, who is the "Official Logistics Provider for Astrobotic's First Mission to the Moon."

    ###

    About Astrobotic:
    Astrobotic Technology Inc (http://www.astrobotic.com/). is a lunar logistics company that delivers payloads to the Moon for companies, governments, universities, non-profits, and individuals. The company's spacecraft accommodates multiple customer payloads on a single flight, offering flexibility at an industry-defining low price of $1.2 million per kilogram. Astrobotic is an official partner with NASA through the Lunar CATALYST (http://www.nasa.gov/lunarcatalyst/#.VioW-tWrRD8) program, has 23 prior and ongoing NASA contracts, a commercial partnership with Airbus DS, a corporate sponsorship with DHL, 11 deals for its first mission to the Moon, and 110 customer payloads in the pipeline for upcoming missions.  Astrobotic was founded in 2007 and is headquartered in Pittsburgh, PA.

    About ULA:
    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 115 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system. For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.07.2017 01:15:44
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/07/26/commercial-lunar-mission-signs-up-with-atlas-5-for-launch/
    ЦитироватьCommercial lunar mission signs up with Atlas 5 for launch
    July 26, 2017 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/07/) Justin Ray (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/justin-sfn-ray/)

    CAPE CANAVERAL — In a commercial push to return to the Moon while celebrating the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11, Astrobotic Technology Inc. has contracted with United Launch Alliance to use an Atlas 5 rocket to send the Peregrine lander to the lunar surface in 2019.

    "Astrobotic is thrilled to sel ect a ULA launch vehicle as the means to get Peregrine to the Moon," said John Thornton, CEO of Astrobotic. "By launching with ULA, Astrobotic can rest assured our payload customers will ride on a proven launch vehicle with a solid track record of success. Together, our two organizations will honor the past and trail blaze the lunar future."

    This initial Peregrine lunar lander will fly 77 pounds (35 kilograms) of customer payloads from six nations either above or below the spacecraft's deck, depending on specific needs.
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/126582.jpg)
    Credit: Astrobotic illustration of lander

    The autonomous landing will use cameras, guidance computing and five Aerojet Rocketdyne-made hypergolic engines to set the lander down on four shock-absorbing legs.

    It will stand 6 feet tall (1.8 meters) and have a diameter of 8 feet (2.5 meters).

    Subsequent missions envision scaling up to payload masses of 585 pounds (265 kilograms). Markets range from scientific instruments to placing mementos on the Moon.

    "Technical credibility and signed deals remain key differentiators for Astrobotic as a lunar delivery company. Our customers and partners know that our 10 years of lunar lander development work has made us the world leader in this market," said Thornton.

    The Pittsburgh-based Astrobotic aims to deliver payloads to the Moon for companies, governments, universities, non-profits and individuals.

    "We are thrilled that Astrobotic has selected ULA to launch the Peregrine Lander to the Moon," said ULA president and CEO, Tory Bruno. "The Moon is the next great frontier, but in a different way than when Neil Armstrong landed there. Enabling technologies like those fr om Astrobotic will allow people to live and work in the space between here and the Moon and take advantage of all those resources in a way that is sustainable."

    The Atlas 5 now has added six high-profile launches to its backlog in the past four months — three commercial, two Air Force and one for NASA.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 02.08.2017 17:26:56
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/08/how-americas-two-greatest-rocket-companies-battled-from-the-beginning/

    ЦитироватьBack to that myth business: after the Twitter tiff between Musk and Bruno, Ars reached out to the ULA chief to clarify his comments about the subsidy as a "myth." After all, ULA still receives annual ELC payments, as the president's fiscal year 2018 budget request (http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/Portals/84/documents/Air%20Force%20Space%20Procurement%20FY18.pdf?ver=2017-05-23-155547-107) for the Department of Defense makes clear (see page 105).
    According to the document, the Air Force pays 75 percent of the ELC costs, and the National Reconnaissance Office covers the remainder. The total payment to ULA in 2016 was $702 million, rising to $983 million in 2017, and it's projected to increase to $1.22 billion in 2018. It is not clear why the ELC costs are slated to rise significantly, especially at a time when the rocket company has reduced its workforce to become more competitive with SpaceX. (There are whispers of concern in the industry that the parent companies are pulling profits out of ULA, rather than investing in its future competitiveness.)

    ЦитироватьBy various estimates, ULA has received about $13 to $15 billion in ELC payments since the company's founding in 2006. But partly because of questions raised by Musk and partly due to concerns in Congress, the ELC payments will soon come to an end. The portion for the Atlas line of rockets stops in September 2019, and the Delta component ends a year later.
    ЦитироватьWhat happens after this is difficult to foretell. United Launch Alliance has been lobbying Congress and the US military to stop flying the more costly fleet of Delta rockets and to focus on the Atlas V vehicle with its cheaper Russian engine. But without the Delta IV Heavy, the military would have no way to get some of its heaviest payloads to higher orbits. Also, quietly, Lockheed and Boeing have been exploring the possible sale or breakup of ULA. So far, the price has been too high for potential buyers.
    ЦитироватьULA received a boost in 2016 when the US Air Force awarded two separate contracts for engines that could be used to power Vulcan. There are two contenders, Blue Origin's BE-4 engine and Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR1. The Air Force provided money for both: $45.8 million to integrate the BE-4 engine into Vulcan and a contract that could be worth as much as $536 million for Aerojet Rocketdyne to develop its AR-1 engine. Both engines, made in America, would meet the US Air Force's longstanding goal to replace the Russian-made RD-180 engine.
    ЦитироватьMeanwhile, SpaceX got a small slice of Air Force pie, $33.6 million for development of its Raptor engine to power the upper stage of another launch vehicle. Orbital ATK got some money for its own booster system, too.
    Thus ended the opening round of what is known as the "Rocket Propulsion System" contract to meet the Air Force's launch needs in the 2020s and 2030s. There is at least $2 billion in development money at stake, and soon the Rocket Propulsion System contracts will move into phase two. Eventually, the Air Force will down-select to two rockets, and it seems likely that during future competitions one of these two companies will win about 60 percent of the national security launch contracts; the other will be left with 40 percent.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 15.08.2017 23:16:57
    ЦитироватьMission Profile: Atlas V Peregrine

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/220286.jpg)  (https://www.youtube.com/user/UnitedLaunchAlliance) United Launch Alliance (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnrGPRKAg1PgvuSHrRIl3jg)

    Опубликовано: 14 авг. 2017 г.

    Astrobotic's Peregrine Lunar Lander will launch onboard a ULA launch vehicle in 2019, during the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11. This effort is a big step in realizing Astrobotic's goal of creating a Rust Belt based international gateway to the Moon. The Peregrine Lunar Lander will fly 35 kilograms of customer payloads on its first mission, with the option to upgrade to 265 kilograms on future missions.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncitbVZz1dkhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncitbVZz1dk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncitbVZz1dk) (1:50)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 05.09.2017 06:16:45
    Не выходит чаша!

    ЦитироватьTechnical and funding challenges will force the Pentagon to rely on Russian-manufactured rocket engines at least through the middle of the next decade, several years longer than originally anticipated.
    http://www.cetusnews.com/business/Pentagon-Faces-Delays-in-Shift-Away-From-Russian-Rocket-Engines-.S1e-n-p5Y-.html
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 04.09.2017 20:46:04
    Оригинал без sms и прочего при переходе по этой ссылке https://www.facebook.com/wsj/posts/10156595286033128
    Цитировать.....
    Despite bipartisan demands from Congress to quickly phase out the RD-180 engines on national-security grounds, it is proving harder than many lawmakers expected to secure an equally reliable domestic replacement. Government and industry officials said United Launch Alliance, the Pentagon's primary rocket provider, likely will continue flying some 1990s-vintage Atlas V boosters with Russian-built engines through 2024 or 2025.
    Other people familiar with the details said United Launch—a joint venture between Lockheed Martin (http://quotes.wsj.com/LMT) Corp. and Boeing (http://quotes.wsj.com/BA) Co. —may have to extend the timeline as far out as 2028.
    ....
    The outcome of that competition partly depends on how quickly United Launch is able to pivot away from the more expensive Atlas V and the RD-180 engines that power its lower stage.
    ...
    Launches of Falcon 9 rockets built by SpaceX (https://www.wsj.com/articles/spacex-launch-aims-to-highlight-advances-1494782467), as Mr. Musk's company is called, start at less than $83 million for the military, more than 40% below traditional United Launch prices.
    The Boeing-Lockheed venture expects to have a new engine fully tested by 2019 and a replacement rocket, called Vulcan, certified to carry Pentagon payloads by 2022 or 2023. But a spokeswoman for United Launch said some Atlas V missions are slated to continue beyond that point, at least through "the mid-2020s," until Vulcan demonstrates its dependability.
    ....
    The spokeswoman for the joint venture said it has 22 contracts for Atlas V launches, not all of which are military, and has "more than 30 engines" either on hand or in the pipeline from Russia, including a final batch of 18 that Congress approved last year. "We have enough engines to satisfy the potential national security space missions in the out years," she said.
    ...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 04.09.2017 20:49:17
    Бгг... я думаю им в конгрессе проведут сеанс катартической магии и заставят таки поторопиться
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 05.09.2017 07:36:00
    Да там, в Конгрессе, то ли маги не те, то ли с магией проблемы. Как в той песенке - "сделать хотел грозу, а получил - козу".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 04.09.2017 22:36:11
    http://tass.ru/kosmos/4531431
    ЦитироватьWSJ: США будут нуждаться в космических ракетных двигателях РФ до середины 2020-х годов
     
    ТАСС, 4 сентября. США будут вынуждены использовать для запусков своих космических ракет российские двигатели РД-180 до середины 2020-х годов, сообщила газета Wall Street Journal со ссылкой на осведомленные источники в американской ракетной отрасли.

    По данным издания, несмотря на желание Вашингтона поскорее отказаться от закупок ракетных двигателей из России, для разработки и подготовки к использованию альтернативных носителей производства США потребуется больше времени, чем предполагалось ранее.

    Минобороны США будет закупать ракеты Atlas V, на которые устанавливаются РД-180, у компании United Launch Alliance до 2024 или 2025 года, отмечает издание, приводя данные некоторых из своих источников, согласно которым Пентагон может быть вынужден закупать ракеты с российским двигателями до 2028 года.

    WSJ пишет, что United Launch Alliance намерено до 2019 года испытать новую ракету Vulcan, призванную прийти на смену Atlas V, и к 2022-2023 годам получить сертификат для проведения запусков новой ракеты. Но использование Atlas V продолжится до середины 2020-х, так как потребуется время, чтобы новая ракета доказала свою надежность, сообщили газете официальные представители United Launch Alliance.

    Как поясняет газета, Пентагон хочет иметь ракеты двух типов для, чтобы гарантировать бесперебойность запусков. Альтернативными носителями могут быть новая, тяжелая версия ракеты Falcon 9 производства американской компании SpaceX либо тяжелая ракета, которую разрабатывает компания Blue Origin. Создание этих двух типов ракет сталкивается с техническими сложностями и займет дольше времени, чем предполагалось ранее, отмечает издание.

    В United Launch Alliance сообщили газете о том, что у компании заключены 22 контракта с Пентагоном и другими заказчиками на проведение запусков с использованием ракет Atlas V и что она располагает более чем 30 двигателями РД-180, которые уже были поставлены либо будут получены из России. Но источники в американской космической отрасли сообщили WSJ, что США, возможно, должны будут дополнительно закупать ракетные двигатели у РФ.

    Соглашение между Москвой и Вашингтоном, которое предусматривало поставки в США 101 двигателя РД-180 и оценивалось примерно в $1 млрд, было заключено в 1997 году. Ранее Конгресс из-за обострения отношений с РФ ввел запрет на использование двигателей после 2019 года, но затем отменил его, когда стало ясно, что свои двигатели в течение ближайших лет в США созданы не будут. Сразу же после этого консорциум ULA заказал у НПО "Энергомаш" дополнительно еще 20 РД-180 до 2020 года.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 05.09.2017 06:41:36
    Цитироватьhttp://tass.ru/kosmos/4531431
    Более менее нормальный пересказ статьи по сравнению с другими. Бросается в глаза только 
    ЦитироватьРанее Конгресс из-за обострения отношений с РФ ввел запрет на использование двигателей после 2019 года, но затем отменил его, когда стало ясно, что свои двигатели в течение ближайших лет в США созданы не будут.
    ни для кого запрет и написав что своих двигателей в США нет....

    Хотя как говорится найди различия
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance намерено до 2019 года испытать новую ракету Vulcan, призванную прийти на смену Atlas V, и к 2022-2023 годам получить сертификат для проведения запусков новой ракеты.
    ЦитироватьThe Boeing-Lockheed venture expects to have a new engine fully tested by 2019 and a replacement rocket, called Vulcan, certified to carry Pentagon payloads by 2022 or 2023.
    Ну и про это упустили журналисты ТАСС написав свою версию про двух конкурентов
    ЦитироватьPart of a Blue Origin rocket exploded on the ground earlier this year, delaying development of a new, methane-fueled engine the company plans to use itself and hopes to sell to United Launch. Blue Origin officials say they have duplicate hardware to alleviate testing delays.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 05.09.2017 15:03:50
    Других экспертов у меня для Вас нет:
    https://ria.ru/science/20170905/1501792901.html
    Цитировать"Ракета делается под двигатель, особенно это касается тяжелых ракет. Atlas V, где летает наш движок РД-180, — это тяжелая ракета. Нельзя заменить двигатель на другой какой-то американский, гораздо проще сделать новую ракету", — сказал Ионин РИА Новости.
    По его словам, "судьба 180-го движка — это синоним судьбы ракеты Atlas V компании Lokheed Martin". Носитель создавался по заказу оборонного ведомства США, поэтому его вряд ли заменят в скором времени, считает эксперт.
    "Пока ракета будет летать, двигатель будет закупаться. А судьба этой ракеты связана с планами NASA и Пентагона. Atlas V — это ракета, которая сделана не так, как у (Илона) Маска: захотели и сделали, а в рамках заказа НАСА и Пентагона, оплачена ими. У ведомств нет планов делать какую-либо ракету на замену Atlas V а значит, он будет летать, условно, до конца 20-х годов, и все это время будет закупаться двигатель, потому что заменить его просто невозможно", — пояснил Ионин.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 05.09.2017 16:56:06
    Он же
    ЦитироватьАниКей цитирует:
    Цитироватьria.ru (https://ria.ru/science/20170905/1501792901.html) США проще создать новую ракету, чем заменить РД-180, считает эксперт
    МОСКВА, 5 сен — РИА Новости.
    Российский ракетный двигатель РД-180 может поставляться в США до конца 2020-х годов, так как его замена потребует создания новой ракеты, а таких планов у Пентагона пока нет, считает член-корреспондент Российской академии космонавтики имени Циолковского Андрей Ионин.
    WSJ тоже однобоко пишет, забывая конкурента Blue Origin
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    https://www.spaceintelreport.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-spacex-blue-origin-pension-plans/
    ЦитироватьAerojet Rocketdyne: Do SpaceX and Blue Origin have pension plans?                   
     by Peter B. de Selding (https://www.spaceintelreport.com/author/peter/) | Sep 1, 2017
     
     Aerojet Rocketdyne's business includes a joint-development partnership with the US Air Force to develop the AR-1 engine, competing with Blue Origin's BE-4 to replace Russia's RD-180 on Atlas 5 rockets; and the main and upper-stage engines on NASA's Space Launch System. SLS alone accounted for 16% of the company's revenue for the first six months of 2017. Credit: Aerojet Rocketdyne
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Сергей от 05.09.2017 17:08:59
    Все таки желание съэкономить бабки перевешивает желание вставить фитиль, несмотря на все финансовое превосходство - это по американски. Все таки для замены Атласа-5 больше подходит или Вулкан, или Нью Гленн - в обоих вариантах ВЕ-4 с учетом перспективы - смещение сроков вправо означает проблемы с отработкой ВЕ-4. ИМХО.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 05.09.2017 17:34:17
    А почему бы им просто не оставить Дельту подольше
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 05.09.2017 17:38:43
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    WSJ тоже однобоко пишет, забывая конкурента Blue Origin
    Это Энди Пастор...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 05.09.2017 17:38:52
    А еще Ионин упускает пример последних лет когда героическими усилиями в короткие сроки заменили двигатель на летающей ракете на РД-181.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Димитър от 05.09.2017 22:13:16
    ЦитироватьСергей пишет:
    1.Все таки желание съэкономить бабки перевешивает желание вставить фитиль, несмотря на все финансовое превосходство - это по американски.
    Цитировать2. Все таки для замены Атласа-5 больше подходит или Вулкан, или Нью Гленн - в обоих вариантах ВЕ-4 с учетом перспективы - смещение сроков вправо означает проблемы с отработкой ВЕ-4. ИМХО.
    1.Это мы еще увидим 
    2.На проблемы с ВЕ-4 есть АR-1, а также Дельта и Флакон. 
    Не будут американцы покупать РД-180 до конца 20-ых.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.09.2017 14:07:22
    А с AR-1 проблем нет? ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.09.2017 14:08:01
    Из Дельт остаётся только Хэви.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.09.2017 14:08:48
    ЦитироватьДимитър пишет:
    Не будут американцы покупать РД-180 до конца 20-ых.
    Сколько надо будет, столько и будут покупать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 06.09.2017 14:10:52
    ЦитироватьSalo пишет:
    Из Дельт остаётся только Хэви.
    А что мешает оставить обычную нетройную Дельту ещё на пятилетку?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.09.2017 15:06:30
    Её стоимость.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Василий Ратников от 06.09.2017 11:35:16
    ULA еще раз доказывает что огромные прилипшие к госкормушке корпорации это кусок навоза бесполезный.
    и так денег платят и этак платят, и за поддержание независимого доступа лярд перечисляют, и военные изгаляются что бы Ф9 на конкурс не попал по весовым ограничениям
    а что на выходе ?
    на выходе пшик.
    скулеж и бубнеж в конгрессе что надо им еще сирым и убогим помогать.

    сдохнут они буду очень рад.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Виктор Кондрашов от 06.09.2017 15:54:07
    ЦитироватьВасилий Ратников пишет:
    ULA еще раз доказывает что огромные прилипшие к госкормушке корпорации это кусок навоза бесполезный.
    ....
    сдохнут они буду очень рад.
    Чему же тут радоваться? Нет уж, пусть подольше сосут американское гос. бабло. :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 06.09.2017 15:55:27
    Вы оказывается не только за Роскосмос переживаете, Вам ещё и ULA покоя не даёт.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 06.09.2017 23:56:03
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    WSJ тоже однобоко пишет, забывая конкурента Blue Origin
    Это Энди Пастор...
    Вот именно...  



    Никакой катастрофы в американской космонавтике не случится, даже если все ВЕ-4, AR-1 и Раптор потерпят фиаско. Тяжелый Атлас и DH вполне заменит FH (хотя тут тоже возможен провал) и только. Только что-то уж много "провалов" в кучу - слишком мала вероятность.

    Ракету под двигатель? По утверждению AJ, AR-1 разрабатывается для естественной замены РД-180 в РН Атлас. Т.е. чуть ли - один выбросил, пару других поставил. 

    Ну, а покупать РД-180 будут столько нужно и пока можно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: rain от 08.09.2017 03:13:01
    Tory Bruno:
    ЦитироватьLots of questions re: 9/4 WSJ article on RD180 replacement. Unclear who their source is. No change to Vulcan Baseline.

    Just inaccurate.

     
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/905401050546421762
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 07.09.2017 20:41:18
    Тори Бруно против Энди Пастора? Пчёлы против мёда?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 07.09.2017 21:55:32
    Цитироватьpnetmon пишет:
    А еще Ионин упускает пример последних лет когда героическими усилиями в короткие сроки заменили двигатель на летающей ракете на РД-181.
    Хотя я не прав.
    Гугля за 15-20 минут что-то по этой статье
    ЦитироватьАниКей цитирует:
    Цитироватьkommersant.ru (https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3403054) «Энергомаш» крутится, как и ULA – Газета Коммерсантъ № 164 (615  8)  от 06.09.2017
    Александра Джорджевич, Иван Сафронов

    Как стало известно "Ъ", до конца сентября НПО «Энергомаш», поставляющее двигатели РД-180 для ракет-носителей Atlas V, должна посетить делегация концерна United Launch Alliance (ULA).
    Спойлер
    Стороны больше года ведут закрытые переговоры о закупке дополнительной партии двигателей, но успехом они так и не закончились: подписание много раз переносилось, а теперь американский концерн готов прибрести вместо десяти РД-180 почти вдвое меньше. Правда, российские позиции в этом споре сильнее: американские специалисты отмечают, что заменить российскую продукцию им пока нечем, поэтому они планируют использовать изделия «Энергомаша» в ракетах Atlas V как минимум до 2024 года.
    О том, что Пентагон будет вынужден использовать двигатели РД-180 в своих ракетах Atlas V дольше запланированного, во вторник сообщила газета The Wall Street Journal. По ее информации, основной поставщик средств выведения для военных — консорциум ULA — продолжит снабжать ВВС США данными ракетами как минимум до 2024 года. Задержка объясняется тем, что разработка собственных двигателей постоянно упирается в экономические проблемы. Так, например, заместитель главы военного ведомства Роберт Уорк в письме одному из сенаторов прямо признавал, что форсирование темпов разработки американского аналога РД-180 не впишется в бюджет Пентагона: дополнительные затраты, по его оценке, составили бы от $1,5 млрд до $5 млрд за шесть лет, что «отодвинет на второй план другие важные инвестиции в национальную безопасность».
    Контракт на поставку 101 двигателя РД-180 Москва и Вашингтон заключили в 1997 году, его сумма оценивалась в $1 млрд. На фоне обострения отношений двух стран в разгар украинского кризиса 2014 года Конгресс США ввел запрет на их использование после 2019 года, однако затем под воздействием аргументов Пентагона был вынужден его отменить.
    Сразу после этого ULA заказал у химкинского «Энергомаша» 20 дополнительных движков. Ранее власти США исходили из того, что собственные двигатели будут протестированы к 2019 году, а новая ракета под названием Vulcan начнет поставляться Пентагону не ранее 2022 года. Отметим, что майские стендовые испытания двигателя BE-4, производимого компанией Blue Origin для замены РД-180, обернулись неудачей.
    По словам российских специалистов, при существующих американских возможностях Пентагон будет вынужден эксплуатировать РД-180 как минимум до 2025 года.
    [свернуть]
    Как стало известно "Ъ", «Энергомаш» и ULA уже более года ведут закрытые переговоры о закупке десяти дополнительных РД-180. Изначально соглашение должны были подписать в сентябре 2016 года
    Спойлер
    , однако тогда негативно повлияли подготовка к выборам президента США, а также испытания нового ракетного двигателя компании Илона Маска SpaceX. Американцы попросили перенести вопрос об очередной закупке двигателей на весну, российские переговорщики согласились.
    [свернуть]
    «Последнее китайское предупреждение» было сделано во время майского заседания совета директоров ULA, говорит собеседник "Ъ" в космической промышленности, прибывшая в США делегация де-факто поставила консорциуму ультиматум: либо скорейшее подписание нового контракта, либо «Энергомаш» законсервирует свои мощности и будет вести в ускоренном режиме переговоры по РД-180 с Китаем. «Жесткий разговор» почти принес плоды: собеседники "Ъ" рассказывают, что соглашение должны были подписать в ходе июньского авиакосмического салона Ле-Бурже (Франция), но и тогда ничего не получилось — в последний момент представители «Энергомаша» и ULA приняли решение не ехать во Францию из-за продления американских санкций.
    Спойлер
    Ограничения коснулись российских физических и юридических лиц, а также целых отраслей экономики, но поставок РД-180 это не затронуло.
    [свернуть]
    По сведениям "Ъ", на «Энергомаше» ожидают приезда представителей ULA до конца сентября, там они должны подтвердить серьезность своих намерений о закупке. Правда, по словам собеседников "Ъ", близких к руководству российского предприятия, сейчас речь идет о приобретении всего пяти двигателей.
    Спойлер
    «Там политика вышла на первые места, но американской промышленности никуда от наших двигателей не уйти, если, конечно, они не хотят остановить свою пусковую программу»,— считает источник "Ъ" в аппарате правительства. Собеседники "Ъ" утверждают, что, несмотря на возникшие сложности, время для переговоров еще есть: в 2017–2018 годах в США по ранее подписанным контрактам будет поставлено в совокупности 22 РД-180.
    В «Энергомаше» от комментариев воздержались. Оперативный ответ от концерна ULA получить не удалось.
    [свернуть]

    Что
    Цитироватьсобеседники "Ъ" рассказывают, что соглашение должны были подписать в ходе июньского авиакосмического салона Ле-Бурже (Франция), но и тогда ничего не получилось — в последний момент представители «Энергомаша» и ULA приняли решение не ехать во Францию из-за продления американских санкций.
    ULA не участвовало в Ле-Бурже.... ничего и не нашлось.
    Хотя поиск напомнил что было до быстрой замены на РД-181
    Цитироватьhttp://spacenews.com/35956orbital-sues-ula-seeks-rd-180-engines-515-million-in-damages/
    Orbital Sues ULA, Seeks RD-180 Engines, $515 Million in Damages
    by Dan Leone — June 24, 2013

    WASHINGTON — Orbital Sciences Corp., which wants to buy Russian-made RD-180 engines for its medium-lift Antares rocket, is suing rocket maker United Launch Alliance (ULA) for blocking any such sale, according to court papers dated June 20.
    ....
    The exclusivity arrangement has been the subject of an investigation by the antitrust division of the U.S. Federal Trade Commission since April. That review was prompted by complaints by Orbital, which views the RD-180 as a long-term replacement for the AJ-26 that currently powers the Antares rocket's first stage.
    ...
    Orbital's interest in the RD-180 stems from concerns about the long-term supply of the AJ-26, which is based on the NK-33 engine designed for the Soviet Union's failed lunar exploration program, and produced during the 1960s and 1970s. Aerojet Rocketdyne of Sacramento, Calif., purchased and refurbished a limited number of the engines for the Antares and says it has secured an agreement to restart production in Russia.  

    Orbital is under contract with NASA to use Antares and a cargo capsule dubbed Cygnus for eight cargo-delivery missions to the international space station. To begin executing on that contract, Orbital must first complete two successful demonstration missions: a test launch of Antares that took place in April, and a launch of Antares carrying a Cygnus capsule, now scheduled for September.  

    Orbital says it has enough AJ-26 engines for these missions but not enough for an expected set of follow-on resupply missions to the space station. Competition for these missions is expected to begin around December, and Orbital would prefer not to include NK-33s in its proposal to NASA, according to one industry source.
    ...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 16.09.2017 17:42:37
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 18 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/909059903112622080)

    The calm before @JBAAirShow (https://twitter.com/JBAAirShow). Come see us in Hangar 2 and take a pic with #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash), #DeltaIV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DeltaIV?src=hash) and #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash)!
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/166912.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 25.09.2017 16:08:38
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67530.jpg)  Spaceflight Now‏ @SpaceflightNow (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow)  18 ч.18 часов назад (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightNow/status/912029641535365121)
    #NROL42 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NROL42?src=hash) last night was launch number 73 for the Atlas 5. Stats now stand at 26 DOD flights, 17 commercial missions, 15 for NASA, 15 for NRO
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/167831.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.10.2017 13:25:14
    Вулкан-Центавр полетит на пол года позже, но сразу получит апгрейд Центавра (не ACES), который позволит заменить Дельту-4 Хэви.

    http://spacenews.com/op-ed-building-on-a-successful-record-in-space-to-meet-the-challenges-ahead/

    ЦитироватьULA is confident its engine and rocket development efforts will meet the 2022 deadline imposed by the Congress for ending purchases of the RD-180. We're making great progress on Vulcan – the all-American replacement for the venerable Atlas rocket – and have two of the country's best engine companies working on two options for its engine.

    We're making enhancements to Vulcan's Centaur upper stage to add crucial heavy lift capability for the Air Force. That will add about six months to the program's original schedule, but the resulting delay is months, not years, and it's a purpose-driven change to deliver better performance, not a schedule slip.

    The Vulcan-Centaur combination will permit launch of the nation's heaviest satellites to any of the nine reference orbits our national security customers require. Moreover, the enhanced Centaur stage will allow this heavy lift capability without resorting to the costly three-booster configuration of today's "heavy" launch configurations.


    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/75j5yb/oped_by_tory_bruno_building_on_a_successful/

    ЦитироватьToryBruno (https://www.reddit.com/user/ToryBruno)President & CEO of ULA 9 points 9 hours ago 


    Continuing with ACES. Remember it does 3 special things: heavy lift, crazy long duration, and in orbit reusability. Upgraded Centaur will bring the first capability forward. ACES will still Be need for the others
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 17.10.2017 22:42:54
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/bigelow-aerospace-and-ula-lunar-depot.aspx
    ЦитироватьBigelow Aerospace and United Launch Alliance Announce Agreement to Place a B330 Habitat in Low Lunar Orbit

    Las Vegas, NV and Centennial, Colo. (Oct. 17, 2017) – Bigelow Aerospace and United Launch Alliance (ULA) are working together to launch a B330 expandable module on ULA's Vulcan launch vehicle.  The launch would place a B330 outfitted module in Low Lunar Orbit by the end of 2022 to serve as a lunar depot.
    Спойлер
    "We are excited to work with ULA on this lunar depot project," said Robert Bigelow, president of Bigelow Aerospace. "Our lunar depot plan is a strong complement to other plans intended to eventually put people on Mars. It will provide NASA and America with an exciting and financially practical success opportunity that can be accomplished in the short term. This lunar depot could be deployed easily by 2022 to support the nation's re-energized plans for returning to the Moon.

    "This commercial lunar depot would provide anchorage for significant lunar business development in addition to offering NASA and other governments the Moon as a new exciting location to conduct long-term exploration and astronaut training."

    The B330 would launch to Low Earth Orbit on a Vulcan 562 configuration rocket, the only commercial launch vehicle in development today with sufficient performance and a large enough payload fairing to carry the habitat. Once the B330 is in orbit, Bigelow Aerospace will outfit the habitat and demonstrate it is working properly.  Once the B330 is fully operational, ULA's industry-unique distributed lift capability would be used to send the B330 to lunar orbit.  Distributed lift would also utilize two more Vulcan ACES launches, each carrying 35 tons of cryogenic propellant to low Earth orbit.  In LEO, all of the cryogenic propellant would be transferred to one of the Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage (ACES). The now full ACES would then rendezvous with the B330 and perform multiple maneuvers to deliver the B330 to its final position in Low Lunar Orbit.

    "We are so pleased to be able to continue our relationship with Bigelow Aerospace," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "The company is doing such tremendous work in the area of habitats for visiting, living and working off our planet and we are thrilled to be the ride that enables that reality."  

    Bigelow Aerospace is a destination-oriented company with a focus on expandable systems for use in a variety of space applications.  These NASA heritage systems provide for greater volume, safety, opportunity and economy than the aluminum alternatives.

    The B330 is a standalone commercial space station that can operate in low Earth orbit, cislunar space and beyond.  A single B330 is comparable to one third of the current pressurized volume of the entire International Space Station.  Bigelow Aerospace is developing two B330 commercial space station habitats that will be ready for launch any time after 2020.

    For more information on Bigelow Aerospace visit www.bigelowaerospace.com (http://www.bigelowaerospace.com).  Connect with Bigelow Aerospace at www.facebook.com/bigelowaerospace (https://www.facebook.com/bigelowaerospace), www.twitter.com/BigelowSpace (https://www.twitter.com/BigelowSpace) and www.instagram.com/bigelowspace (https://www.instagram.com/bigelowspace).

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered 120 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 17.10.2017 22:49:33
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 6 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/920292512853561344)

    .@BigelowSpace (https://twitter.com/BigelowSpace) and United Launch Alliance Announce Agreement to Place a B330 Habitat in Low Lunar Orbit http://bit.ly/2xMFi0i  (https://t.co/kG9PcfeA02)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169358.jpg)


     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg) Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 5 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/920295576863944704)

    ULA Presser: Bigelow Aerospace and United Launch Alliance Announce Agreement to Place a B330 Habitat in Low Lunar Orbit by the end of 2022 to serve as a lunar depot. Well I guess we'll just have to write that up into an article! (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125484.png)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169359.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 18.10.2017 08:15:44
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg) Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 3 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/920465443827142657)

    ARTICLE: ULA and Bigelow expand association with lunar depot plan - https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/10/ula-bigelow-expand-association-lunar-depot-plan/ ... (https://t.co/U9rVdoq7z4)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169385.jpg)
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169386.jpg)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169387.jpg)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169388.jpg)
    [свернуть]
    Цитировать
    ULA and Bigelow expand association with lunar depot plan (https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/10/ula-bigelow-expand-association-lunar-depot-plan/)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 18.10.2017 08:25:37
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 6 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/920430480155168769)

    If NASA has $2.3 billion, Bigelow Aerospace and ULA believe they can establish a "lunar depot" as soon as 2022:
    http://spacenews.com/bigelow-and-ula-announce-plans-for-lunar-orbiting-facility/
    ЦитироватьBigelow and ULA announce plans for lunar orbiting facility
    by Jeff Foust (http://spacenews.com/author/jeff-foust/) — October 17, 2017

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155749.jpg)
    An illustration of the proposed lunar depot, using a Bigelow Aerospace B330 module and launched by United Launch Alliance using its Vulcan rocket and ACES upper stage. Credit: Bigelow Aerospace

    WASHINGTON — Bigelow Aerospace and United Launch Alliance said Oct. 17 that they are cooperating on the development of a habitat orbiting the moon that they hope to build in a public-private partnership with NASA.

    The companies said they are working together on a concept for a "lunar depot" using an expandable module provided by Bigelow and launched by a next-generation ULA rocket that could support both NASA and commercial uses as soon as 2022.
    Спойлер
    Under the concept, a ULA Vulcan 562 rocket would launch the Bigelow B330 module into low Earth orbit. The module would remain in Earth orbit for up to a year to undergo tests and be visited by crews.

    ULA would then launch two more Vulcan rockets, each placing an Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage (ACES) upper stage in orbit. One of the ACES would refuel the other, which would then dock with the B330 and send the module into a low lunar orbit.

    The announcement build upon existing work between the two companies to study launching B330 modules, originally on the Atlas 5, Bigelow Aerospace President Robert Bigelow said in an Oct. 17 interview. He said his company decided to shift to the Vulcan vehicle and then build upon its capabilities, such as the ACES upper stage that is intended to also serve as a refuelable space tug.

    "There is synchronicity between what ULA has in the way of capabilities and what we're doing," Bigelow said. "We decided to collaborate and prepare a proposal that the White House and NASA could accept as part of an overall space plan."

    Bigelow emphasized he saw this proposal as a public-private partnership. He estimated NASA's share of the costs to be $2.3 billion, in addition to the "hundreds of millions" being spent by both Bigelow Aerospace and ULA. "It's executable within four years of receiving funding and NASA giving us the word," he said.

    The lunar depot would be available for both NASA and commercial uses, according to Bigelow. It could be visited by NASA Orion spacecraft launched by the Space Launch System, but he said it's possible other spacecraft, like a version of SpaceX's Dragon spacecraft, could also provide transportation to and from the facility.

    The depot, he said, is not intended to be a replacement for the Deep Space Gateway, the proposed cislunar habitat announced by NASA earlier this year. That facility would consist of several modules, including some potentially provided by international or commercial partners, and support lunar missions as well as prepare for later expeditions to Mars.

    "It is not interfering with the gateway," he said. That gateway will likely be more expensive than his proposed lunar depot and operate in a different orbit. The longer time needed to develop the gateway — current NASA concepts don't anticipate completing the core gateway until the mid-2020s — make it "subject to cancellation by the next administration."

    Bigelow said the initial depot could be supplemented by additional modules, or even other depots in different orbits, but that the companies want to keep the concept relatively simple for now. "We're trying to keep it simple to get it done," he said.

    Prior to the public announcement of the lunar depot concept, Bigelow said the companies had briefed several "key" but unidentified people in the U.S. government about it. "They're excited about this," he said, adding he believed that Jim Bridenstine, nominated to become NASA administrator in September, would also support something like this.

    He acknowledged, though, that the depot is "not a done deal" and will require support from the government as part of development of a new space exploration strategy. "We need to create an appetite for this," he said. "In the end, it's up to what President Trump wants to do and what Vice President Pence wants to do."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.10.2017 00:13:32
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg) Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 7 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/921120110437380097)

    More! NASA selects United Launch Services LLC (ULS) to provide launch services for the Landsat 9 mission. Targeted for a contract launch date of June 2021, while protecting for the ability to launch as early as Dec. 2020, on an Atlas V 401 rocket from SLC-3E at Vandenberg.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.10.2017 01:16:14
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185645.jpg) ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 18 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/921132510649749504)

    NASA Selects United Launch Alliance Reliable Atlas V Rocket to Launch Landsat 9 Mission http://bit.ly/2zmgvwv  (https://t.co/ogClhEK6Jy)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169137.jpg)
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/nasa-selects-ula-reliable-atlasv-for-landsat9.aspx
    ЦитироватьNASA Selects United Launch Alliance Reliable Atlas V Rocket to Launch Landsat 9 Mission

    Centennial, Colo. (Oct. 19, 2017) –  NASA's Launch Services Program announced today that it sel ected United Launch Alliance's (ULA's) proven Atlas V vehicle to launch the Landsat 9 mission, the ninth in the satellite program providing the longest continuous global record of Earth's surface. This award resulted from a competitive Launch Service Task Order evaluation under the NASA Launch Services II contract.
    Спойлер
    "We are honored that NASA has entrusted ULA with launching this critical land imaging satellite," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and chief executive. "ULA's world-leading performance and reliability, paired with the tremendous heritage of 74 consecutive successful Atlas V launches, provides the optimal value for our customer. We look forward to working together again with our mission partners at NASA's Launch Services Program, Goddard Space Flight Center and the U.S. Geological Survey in the integration and launch of this significant mission, contributing to the international strategy for examining the health and state of the Earth."

    The Landsat 9 mission is scheduled with a contract launch date of June 2021 while protecting for the ability to launch as early as December 2020 from Space Launch Complex-3 at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. This mission will launch aboard an Atlas V 401 rocket.

    ULA also launched NASA's Landsat 8 mission in 2013 fr om Vandenberg Air Force Base in California aboard an Atlas V rocket. ULA and ULA heritage vehicles have launched more than 30 missions for the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center team. Since 2000, Atlas and Delta have performed more than 60 consecutive successful launches for NASA.

    The Landsat program is a multi-satellite partnership between NASA and the U.S. Geological Survey to monitor, understand, and manage the land resources needed to sustain human life. Landsat is the only U.S. satellite system designed and operated to repeatedly observe the global land surface at a moderate scale that shows both natural and human-induced change. Every day, Landsat satellites provide essential information to help land managers and policy makers make wise decisions about our resources and our environment.

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 120 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.

    For more information on ULA, visit the ULA website at www.ulalaunch.com, or call the ULA Launch Hotline at 1-877-ULA-4321 (852-4321). Join the conversation at www.facebook.com/ulalaunch (https://www.facebook.com/ulalaunch), twitter.com/ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) and instagram.com/ulalaunch (https://instagram.com/ulalaunch).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 20.10.2017 13:35:38
    ЦитироватьTory Bruno‏Verified account @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno)  36m36 minutes ago (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/921314801472720896)

    CDR in December. Tooling is the factory. First hardware in fab. pad mods underway

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 24.10.2017 09:18:45
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/10/23/spacex-ula-win-nasa-contracts-to-launch-earth-observation-satellites/
    ЦитироватьSpaceX, ULA win NASA contracts to launch Earth observation satellites
    October 23, 2017 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2017/10/) Stephen Clark (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/127032.png)
    NASA has sel ected a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket (left) and a United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket (right) to launch the Sentinel 6A/Jason-CS and Landsat 9 satellites in 2020 and 2021. Credit: SpaceX and ULA

    NASA has sel ected SpaceX and United Launch Alliance to deliver to orbit a joint U.S.-European oceanography mission and the next land imaging satellite in the Landsat series on Falcon 9 and Atlas 5 rockets.

    The space agency announced the contracts Thursday, splitting awards between the two U.S. companies certified to launch NASA's large robotic space missions. NASA's Launch Services Program at the Kennedy Space Center made the selections after separate competitive procurements.
    Спойлер
    ...

    The Landsat 9 satellite will lift off on a United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket as soon as December 2020, NASA announced last week. The contracted launch date is in June 2021, but ULA will be ready to launch six months earlier, assuming the spacecraft is ready.

    The $153.8 million launch contract encompasses ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which will fly in its basic 401 configuration without any solid rocket boosters, and other mission-related costs.

    Landsat 9 will launch into a polar orbit fr om Space Launch Complex 3-East at Vandenberg.

    An Atlas 5 rocket deployed Landsat 8, the newest Landsat satellite, into orbit in February 2013. Landsat 9 is designed to be a near-copy of Landsat 8, joining the Landsat fleet in polar orbit 438 miles (705 kilometers) above Earth.

    "We are honored that NASA has entrusted ULA with launching this critical land imaging satellite," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and chief executive. "ULA's world-leading performance and reliability, paired with the tremendous heritage of 74 consecutive successful Atlas 5 launches, provides the optimal value for our customer.

    "We look forward to working together again with our mission partners at NASA's Launch Services Program, Goddard Space Flight Center and the U.S. Geological Survey in the integration and launch of this significant mission, contributing to the international strategy for examining the health and state of the Earth," Bruno said in a statement.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/127034.jpg)
    Artist's concept of the Landsat 9 satellite in orbit. Credit: NASA/Goddard

    The Landsat series has amassed an uninterrupted record of moderate-resolution imagery since 1972, helping scientists, surveyors and the public track changes in crop patterns, forests, urban sprawl and water usage.

    Built by Orbital ATK, Landsat 9 will be operated by the U.S. Geological Survey once in orbit. The mission is expected to cost approximately $900 million, according to a NASA budget document published earlier this year.

    Landsat 9 will carry two instruments — an operational land imager and a thermal infrared sensor — similar to Landsat 8. Additional funding for the project in NASA and USGS budgets last year helped move forward Landsat 9's target launch date fr om 2023 to the end of 2020.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 26.10.2017 02:31:03
    http://astronautical.org/events/vonbraun/
    Цитировать
    Wernher von Braun Memorial Symposium

    October 24-26, 2017
    Huntsville, Alabama
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg) Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 4 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/923274861954453504)

    Vern Thorp, ULA: we are in discussions with Orbital ATK about flying more Cygnus missions on Atlas 5. #vonbraun (https://twitter.com/hashtag/vonbraun?src=hash)


    4 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/923275516060323840)

    Thorp: decided to make some enhancements to Centaur stage that Vulcan will initially use; could delay first launch by few months. #vonbraun (https://twitter.com/hashtag/vonbraun?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: silentpom от 26.10.2017 06:39:33
    какие-то подробности есть? двухмоторный возражают?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.10.2017 12:39:18
    Доработка Центавра требует времени.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 26.10.2017 13:34:29
    Двухмоторный Центавр для Старлайнера нужен
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 22.01.2018 20:36:18
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185988.jpg)  Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes (https://twitter.com/pbdes)
    Atlas 5 commercial marketing/sales handed over to @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) from @LockheedMartin (https://twitter.com/LockheedMartin) Commercial Launch Services. It'll be interesting to see what pricing leeway ULA will have.(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/173157.jpg)
      8:35 - 22 янв. 2018 г.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.01.2018 21:31:35
    Интересное про Vulcan, ACES и IVF

    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/7rkrgd/ula_slide_deck_at_aiaa_scitech_2018/

    ЦитироватьBecause of ITAR we aren't allowed to say much in detail but the system successfully pressurized a flight like tank with liquid cryogen about 9 months ago. The ICE, compressors, high power motors, heat exchangers and various valves are about 90% through design and look beautiful. The AM technology is everywhere. Fabrication this year.
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Commercial_Space/Transportation_Enabling_a_Robust_Space_Economy_AIAASciTech2018.pdf
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 22.01.2018 22:33:55
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    http://www.ulalaunch.com/uploads/docs/Published_Papers/Commercial_Space/Transportation_Enabling_a_Robust_Space_Economy_AIAASciTech2018.pdf
    Эпичная битва между этим лысым из ULA (забыл как зовут)  и  Элоном  нашим Маском в рисовании картинок в PowerPoint-е  :D

    ULA поняла, что проигрывает  и наняла опытных художников, которые ещё Constellation при Мише Гриффине рисовали.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 22.01.2018 22:48:09
    Гы... Судя по картинке  два "Вулкана" со стыковкой на LEO  дают практически столько же на отлётную к Луне, сколько один SLS-1B

    Лысый из ULA копает под саму NASA  :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 24.01.2018 10:24:07
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:Эпичная битва между этим лысым из ULA (забыл как зовут) и Элоном нашим Маском в рисовании картинок в PowerPoint-е  :D  

    ULA поняла, что проигрывает и наняла опытных художников, которые ещё Constellation при Мише Гриффине рисовали.
    Не вижу битвы, честно говоря. ULA совершенно разумно акцентирует внимание на криогенном КВРБ, там где у Маска конь довалялся до вишневого родстера с кожаным салоном. Про первую же ступень, та что у Маска во главе угла, - пофигистичное "BE-4 or AR-1"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 13.02.2018 22:02:21
    Вчера, Маск сказал, что съест шляпу, если ULA со своим Вулканом полетит с правительственными нагрузками раньше 2023 года.
    А тот лысый из  ULA Тони Бруно вызов принял.

    Ваши ставки, господа. Кто будет шляпу есть?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: LRV_75 от 13.02.2018 23:03:59
    Прикольно.

    Ставлю на ULA
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 14.02.2018 20:13:12
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка пишет:
    Вчера, Маск сказал, что съест шляпу, если ULA со своим Вулканом полетит с правительственными нагрузками раньше 2023 года.
    Чуть по другому, а то и многое можно назвать правительственной нагрузкой, например того же НАСА.

    Цитироватьhttps://spacepolicyonline.com/news/todays-tidbits-february-13-2018/
    ...
    SpaceX-ULA Space Race Means Someone Will be Eating a Hat

    During his press conference following the Falcon Heavy launch last week, SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk talked about how that success might spur other countries and companies to reach for new heights. They would be competitors to SpaceX, but that's OK. "We want a space race. Races are exciting."

    He now has one.

    During an exchange on Twitter, Musk said that he would "eat my hat with a side of mustard" if the United Launch Alliance's (ULA) new Vulcan rocket with a Centaur upper stage launched a national security payload before 2023. ULA President Tory Bruno joined the conversation with a single word — "Wow." Others chimed in asking if Bruno was accepting the challenge and he said "yes." The exchange continued, with suggestions as to what hats should be eaten. It all seems to be in good fun, but serious at the same time. For example, Musk asserted that the cost of a ULA Delta IV Heavy launch is $600 million. Bruno corrected him that it's $350 million. Follow the thread: @elonmusk and @torybruno. It's too long to reproduce, but here's a sample.
    ....

    А вот и шапочка Бруно, о шапочке Маска можно догадываться
    Цитировать https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/963239762390732800
    Tory Bruno‏@torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno)
    2:33 - 13 февр. 2018 г.
    For some odd reason, I've been getting a lot of questions today about what hat I wear... I have two favorites. Here's one.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/173344.jpg)
    шляпка 2
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/173370.jpg)

    Цитироватьhttps://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35754.500
    Re: ULA's new Launch Vehicle
    « Reply #502 on: 03/15/2015 11:47 PM »
    Jeepers, is a poll really necessary to answer this question? The answer is "yes, it is a new LV"...
    ...
    - DoD: Per Tory Bruno, first flight will occur in 2019 with new engine and rocket certified in 2022-2023 for national security payloads. If it is not "new", then why would it have to go through such certification?
    ...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 26.02.2018 21:07:20
    http://tass.ru/kosmos/4987347
    ЦитироватьULA планирует запустить новую тяжелую ракету в 2020 году
    ВАШИНГТОН, 26 февраля. /Корр. ТАСС Анатолий Бочинин/. Американский консорциум United Launch Alliance (ULA) ведет разработку технологии, которая позволит существенно удешевить запуски ее будущей тяжелой ракеты-носителя Vulcan, первый старт которой ожидается уже в 2020 году. Об этом изданию Business Insider рассказал глава консорциума Тори Бруно.
    "Первый полет Vulcan произойдет в середине 2020 года", - сказал он, добавив, что цена одной ракеты составит около $100 млн. Это на 70% меньше, чем у тяжелой Delta IV.
    Вопрос стоимости отправки больших грузов на орбиту, в частности, к Международной космической станции, - один из ключевых в конкурентной борьбе между ULA, являющимся совместным предприятием американских корпораций Boeing и Lockheed Martin, и частной компаний SpaceX.
    В начале февраля с космодрома на мысе Канаверал (штат Флорида, США) SpaceX запустила свою сверхтяжелую ракету Falcon Heavy. Стоимость носителя составляет $90 млн, тогда как одна Delta IV обходится в $350 млн. Такая разница в цене обусловлена тем, что ступени Falcon Heavy - не расходный материал, после отделения они совершают посадку и их можно использовать повторно. Эта технология - одно из самых известных достижений SpaceX.
    Delta IV может доставить на низкую орбиту почти 32 тонны грузов. "Иногда недостаточно просто сказать: "Эй, у меня правда большая ракета". Порой вам нужно, чтобы ракета могла сделать что-то достаточно уникальное и необычное, уже достигнув орбиты", - заметил Бруно.
    Ожидается, что грузоподъемность Vulcan увеличат до 40 тонн. И хотя полезная нагрузка Falcon Heavy составляет целых 70 тонн, в ULA считают, что смогли найти ряд решений, выгодно отличающих их продукцию от носителей компании Илона Маска.
    В первую очередь речь идет о второй ступени, которую в ULA хотят сделать многофункциональной. На Falcon Heavy в качестве топлива для верхней ступени используется специальный ракетный керосин, который в космосе замерзает за несколько часов. На Vulcan же хотят применить криогенный кислород и водород, которые более устойчивы к экстремально низким температурам.
    В результате вторую ступень можно будет оставить на орбите и использовать в дальнейшем. "Практично будет вновь заправлять их в космосе и использовать для других целей, или же просто в качестве шаттлов для тяжелых грузов, которые нужно подхватить на низкой орбите, и затем направить в любую точку Солнечной системы", - полагает Бруно. Такая схема, в частности, может быть использована для доставки чего-либо на Луну в случае ее дальнейшего освоения.
    Есть в ULA задумки и насчет первых ступеней ракеты. Возвращать их целиком, как это делает SpaceX, не планируют. Речь идет о безопасном возврате самой дорогой их части - двигателя. Технология SpaceX имеет серьезный недостаток - для успешной посадки первой ступени нужен запас топлива, но его не остается при большой загрузке ракеты. В таких случаях ступени просто безвозвратно падают в океан.
    "У вас получится сохранить не всю стоимость ускорителя, но большую часть. Самый дорогой компонент ускорителя - это ракетный двигатель. Это примерно две трети от общей стоимости", - пояснил глава ULA. В теории механизм спасения двигателя работает следующим образом - после доставки груза на орбиту двигатель отделяется и вокруг него надувается конусовидная защитная оболочка, которая позволяет ему войти в атмосферу невредимым, скорректировав угол падения. После этого раскрывается парашют. В небе его крюком цепляет транспортный вертолет, чтобы не дать двигателю упасть в воду или в другую агрессивную среду.
    Delta IV должна быть "отправлена в отставку" после 2020 года, на который запланирован первый запуск Vulcan. Вторая ступень, которую можно будет дозаправить, согласно плану, впервые будет запущена в 2023 или в 2024 году, первая ступень с отделяемыми двигателями - несколько позже.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 15.03.2018 11:48:24
    https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/1466539//

    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Services, Centennial, Colorado, has been awarded a $354,811,947 firm-fixed-price contract for launch services to deliver the AFSPC-8 and AFSPC-12 satellites to their intended orbit.  This contract provides launch vehicle production, mission integration/launch operations/spaceflight worthiness, mission unique activities, and mission unique options for the AFSPC-8 and AFSPC-12 missions.  Work will be performed in Centennial, Colorado; Decatur, Alabama; and Cape Canaveral, Florida, and is expected to be complete by June 2020; and March 2020, respectively.  This award is the result of a competitive acquisition and two offers were received.  Fiscal 2017 and 2018 space procurement; and fiscal 2018 research, development, test, and evaluation funding in the amount of $354,811,947 will be obligated at the time of award.  The Contracting Division, Launch Systems Enterprise Directorate, Space and Missile Systems Center, Los Angeles Air Force Base, California is the contracting activity (FA8811-18-C-0002).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 19.03.2018 16:20:45
    ЦитироватьApollo13 пишет:
    https://www.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/1466539//
    а то 4 млн потерялись ;)
    Цитировать http://spacenews.com/air-force-awards-big-launch-contracts-to-spacex-and-ula/
    ULA was awarded a $351 million firm-fixed-price deal for Air Force Space Command (AFSPC)-8 and AFSPC-12 satellites launches.
    Цитировать https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/15/air-force-awards-half-a-billion-in-new-launch-contracts-to-spacex-ula.html
    ULA — a joint venture between Boeing (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=BA) and Lockheed Martin (https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/?symbol=LMT) — won a $355 million fixed-price contract to launch two Air Force Space Command (AFSPC) satellites.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.03.2018 00:40:25
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/03/20/ula-touts-new-vulcan-rocket-in-competition-with-spacex/
    ЦитироватьULA touts new Vulcan rocket in competition with SpaceX
    March 20, 2018 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/03/) | William Harwood (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/bill-harwood/)

    STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS (http://www.cbsnews.com/) & USED WITH PERMISSION

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144208.jpg)
    Artist's illustration of a Vulcan rocket launching fr om Cape Canaveral. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    SpaceX and its visionary founder Elon Musk win the lion's share of public attention in the commercial rocket arena, with dramatic, increasingly routine booster landings and spectacular stunts like the launch of Musk's Tesla Roadster on the maiden flight of the company's new Falcon Heavy rocket last month.

    But arch-rival United Launch Alliance, a much more buttoned-down corporate alliance between Boeing and Lockheed Martin, is responding to the threat posed by the upstart SpaceX with long-range plans to phase out its workhorse Atlas 5 rocket and costly Delta 4 rockets in favor of a powerful, less-expensive launcher known as the Vulcan.

    Featuring reusable engines and an advanced, long-lived upper stage, company executives expect the Vulcan to be a major contender in the increasingly fierce slugfest between SpaceX, ULA and other international launch providers.

    That battle was center stage Wednesday when the Air Force awarded SpaceX a $290 million contract to launch three Global Positioning System navigation satellites atop Falcon 9 rockets in late 2019 and 2020.

    At the same time, ULA won a $351 million contract to launch two Space Situational Awareness Program satellites using an Atlas 5 rocket in 2020, along with a second flight to launch another pair of military payloads.
    Спойлер
    "I am a big supporter of competition," ULA CEO Tory Bruno said in a recent interview. "Makes it an exciting time to be in space, you never know what's going to happen. In my 35 years as a rocket scientist I never thought I'd see somebody just launch a car into space for fun. I'm not sure what I think of that yet. So yeah I'm with you. These are exciting times."

    In one sense, ULA is playing the tortoise to SpaceX's hare. Musk was first out of the blocks with development of reusable rocket boosters, but Bruno believes ULA's Vulcan, with reusable first stage engines, makes the most sense financially given current market projections.

    He said the Vulcan's engines represent two-thirds of the cost of the stage. Under ULA's approach, the engines will be recovered and reused after every flight. SpaceX's design calls for recovery of the entire rocket stage. Depending on the weight of the payload and the requirements of its orbit, that cannot be done on every flight.

    "It boils down to as simple as this: is it better to recover 100 percent of the value of the booster some of the time or only two thirds of the value of the booster all of the time?" Bruno said reporters during a roundtable discussion earlier this week.

    "Well, that depends on how often you get a big, heavy payload. We've each made market forecasts, and if we're right, our solution will be economically advantageous. If I'm wrong and they're right, then theirs will."

    ULA is staking its future on the Vulcan. Equipped with up to six upgraded strap-on solid-fuel boosters, the new rocket will generate some 3.8 million pounds of liftoff thrust.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/143805.jpg)
    ULA chief executive Tory Bruno. Credit: Space Foundation

    Out-performing ULA's current heavy lift booster, the three-core Delta 4, the Vulcan will be able to boost 80,000 pounds to low-Earth orbit or up to 35,900 pounds to the elliptical geosynchronous transfer orbits — GTOs — used by communications satellites bound for operational stations 22,300 above the equator.

    The least powerful version of the new rocket, one without any solid-fuel boosters and an advanced upper stage known as ACES, is expected to sell for less than $100 million. The base version of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket currently goes for about $109 million, Bruno said, while a heavy lift Delta 4 sells for about $350 million.

    Even with six solid-fuel boosters and a large payload fairing, the most powerful version of the Vulcan will still cost "more like a quarter or a third of the cost of the Delta 4 Heavy," Bruno said in the interview with CBS News.

    For comparison, SpaceX sells a commercial version of its Falcon 9 rocket for $62 million, according to the company's website, although the price climbs to more than $90 million a copy for military missions.

    A commercial version of the company's Falcon Heavy rocket, which debuted in February, has a list price of $90 million, but that apparently assumes all three core stages are recovered for reuse. That version of the rocket, according to the SpaceX website, can boost eight metric tons, or 17,600 pounds to geosynchronous transfer orbit.

    That's the version launched last month, roughly equivalent, Bruno said, to a "mid-range Atlas." A fully expendable version of the Falcon Heavy can lift nearly 59,000 pounds to that same orbit, easily making it the most powerful rocket in the world.

    Bruno said he was impressed by the Falcon Heavy and SpaceX's maturing ability to recover spent rocket stages.

    "I'm a rocket scientist, and that was very cool to watch," he said. "I certainly give credit to Elon Musk for sort of creating more excitement around space than we had a decade ago."

    But this is not a particularly friendly competition. SpaceX's website brags the Falcon Heavy "can lift more than twice the payload of the next closest operational vehicle, the Delta IV Heavy, at one-third the cost."

    Not so fast, says Bruno.

    "Delta Heavy was really designed around the national security, primarily NRO (National Reconnaissance Office) mission set, which has complicated orbits, and it's optimized for that," he said. "It goes for about $350 million. It's a military mission only, I don't offer it commercially, at least today, there's no commercial market for a Heavy."

    The Delta 4, designed by Boeing, and the Atlas 5, built by Lockheed Martin, originally were developed for the Air Force as "evolved expendable launch vehicles," or EELVs, intended to provide assured access to space for high-priority national security payloads.

    With government approval, the two companies formed a partnership and the first Atlas 5, carrying a commercial satellite, blasted off in August 2002.

    SpaceX launched its first Falcon 9 in 2010 and, after Air Force certification and vocal complaints about ULA's perceived monopoly in the military space arena, the California rocket builder was cleared to compete for military contracts.

    "We've been competing now for almost two years in the military market space," Bruno said before this week's Air Force contracts were announced. "Falcon 9s are going for about $97 million, $96.5 million, I think, is the most recent one. They've won half, we've won half. The government discloses the winner's price because we're public procurements. So I think we each know what our prices are."

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144046.jpg)
    The Falcon Heavy rocket takes off on its first test flight. Credit: Walter Scriptunas II / Spaceflight Now

    To compare the Falcon Heavy with the Delta 4, "you want to compare government missions," he said. "We don't market (the Delta 4) commercially. So I would look at the Falcon 9 at $96.5 million as a single stick. Scale that up to be a Falcon Heavy, which is a three-core version of that rocket, and whatever that price is is what I would compare to $350 million.

    "If you want to take a massively large payload to LEO (low-Earth orbit), that would be the rocket that would do it. If you want to go higher, you might want to fly on a Delta 4."

    But a Falcon Heavy is not made up of three Falcon 9s. It is, more accurately, one Falcon 9 with a modified central stage and two additional Falcon 9 core stages.

    SpaceX has said a fully expendable version of the Falcon Heavy, one capable of boosting nearly 59,000 pounds to GTO, would cost around $150 million, less than half the cost of a Delta 4 Heavy.

    But ULA says a rocket's cost is just one factor in a sale. The company also is selling reliability and "schedule certainty."

    ULA has launched 76 Atlas 5 rockets and 36 more expensive Delta 4s without a single failure. SpaceX has suffered one catastrophic in-flight failure in 50 Falcon 9 launches to date and one on-the-pad explosion.

    A rocket's reliability affects insurance rates and meeting a promised launch date means a commercial satellite will start generating revenue as soon as possible. ULA says both of those factors act to reduce the actual cost of a launch on one of its rockets.

    Another wild card in the equation is SpaceX's plan to build an even more powerful rocket known as the BFR, for Big F-ing Rocket, intended for eventual missions to Mars. It is not yet clear where the Falcon Heavy fits into the company's long-range plans or whether the BFR will be used for the sorts of payloads ULA hopes to launch on its Vulcan.

    But the Delta 4-Falcon Heavy debate will be moot soon enough as ULA phases out the Delta 4 and the Atlas 5 in favor of the Vulcan. Bruno said "at least" seven to eight more Delta 4s will be launched between now and the early 2020s while the Atlas 5 likely will fly into the mid 2020s, overlapping with the Vulcan program as the new rocket begins operational flights.

    In the meantime, the Atlas 5 also will be used to launch Boeing's CST-100 commercial crew ship on flights to ferry astronauts to and from the International Space Station. SpaceX also holds a NASA contract to develop a piloted version of its Dragon cargo ship that will launch atop a Falcon 9. Both companies hope to begin routine flights to the station next year.

    The maiden flight of the Vulcan currently is targeted for the middle of 2020. Two successful commercial launches are required as part of the government certification process, followed by a required upper stage upgrade to improve performance, either Aerojet Rocketdyne RL10 engines or a different set of engines altogether.

    If all goes well, ULA will introduce its new upper stage in 2024, the Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage, or ACES, that Bruno says will revolutionize spaceflight.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144166.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance's ACES upper stage. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    "This is on the scale of inventing the airplane," Bruno told reporters during the media roundtable. "That's how revolutionary this upper stage is. It's 1900, and I'm inventing the airplane. People don't even know what they're going to do with it yet. But I'm confident it's going to create a large economy in space that doesn't exist today. No one is working on anything like this."

    The Vulcan will stand 228 feet tall with a first stage powered by two engines provided by either Blue Origin, a company owned by Amazon-founder Jeff Bezos, or Aerojet Rocketdyne. Blue Origin's BE-4 engine burns methane and liquid oxygen while Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 powerplant burns a more traditional mixture of oxygen and highly refined kerosene.

    Both engines will generate between 500,000 and 550,000 pounds of thrust and two will be used to power the Vulcan's first stage. Bruno said ULA is nearing a decision on which engine to employ but would not provide any sort of timetable other than to say the company would announce its choice "soon."

    "They're both good engines," he told CBS News. "They both use the what we think of as a very advanced Russian engine cycle, an oxygen-rich stage combustion that the U.S. has never, ever had, and we now will. They just use two different hydrocarbon fuels as you know, one is kerosene and one is methane."

    Both engines "have a lot of additive manufacturing content, which takes that Russian technology and makes it a lot more manufacturable and really updates it to modern standards. So they were both good engines. They are both, you know, hitting their marks and wh ere they planned to be. That's probably all I can say."

    Whichever engines are used, the Vulcan first stage is being designed with reusability in mind. But unlike SpaceX, which can recover it's Falcon 9 first stage intact with a rocket-powered return to landing on shore or on an off-shore droneship, ULA only plans to recover the Vulcan's first stage engines.

    ULA plans to begin engine recovery operations after the Vulcan is routinely flying and after the ACES upper stage is implemented.

    Bruno said the engines represent two-thirds of the cost of the stage and getting them back every time, with no impact on mission performance, will pay big dividends. SpaceX, in contrast, must use propellant to fly its Falcon 9 stages back to touchdown. Heavy payloads bound for high orbits require most if not all of the rocket's propellant and in those cases, recovery may not be possible.

    As a result, SpaceX's ability to recover rocket stages depends on its manifest and the orbital demands of those payloads.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144197.png)
    ULA's concept for reusing booster engines involves retrieving the engines by a helicopter in mid-air. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    "Simplistically, if you recover the old booster propulsively then you can do that part of the time, you get all the value back some of the time," Bruno said. "Or, you can recover just the engine, which is our concept, and then you get only part of the value back, about two thirds ... but you get to do it every single time because there's no performance hit. So it really turns into math."

    And that math is based on market projections about future satellite builds and the percentage of heavy-weight payloads ULA expects to be launching.

    "We've made a forecast of what we think the future marketplace will be and said engine recovery is more financially attractive," Bruno said. "I think SpaceX has made different calculus. And we'll both go to the market and find out who's right."

    To recover the Vulcan engines, a small pod housing an inflatable heat shield and a gas generator will be mounted on the bottom of the first stage. After boosting the rocket out of the lower atmosphere, the engines will shut down and the propulsion section will be disconnected, allowing it to fall free.

    The heat shield, based on NASA technology, then will inflate using the gas generator, protecting the engines from the heat and stress of atmospheric entry. Once clear of the plasma heating region, a parafoil will deploy to fly the engines to their planned pickup point.

    A large helicopter then will swoop overhead, snagging a cable to capture the engine package, which will be lowered to the deck of a nearby salvage ship. A similar technique was used to capture film canisters ejected from Corona spy satellites in the 1960s.

    "We'll separate really the whole back end (of the first stage)," Bruno said. "Then, we're going to re-enter it behind the NASA inflatable heat shield and then pop a parachute, really a parafoil, because that allows us to make sure we fly to GPS coordinates and a big helicopter will be waiting for it and snag it set it down."

    Recovering the engines non-propulsively will allow the Vulcan to use virtually all of its propellant to put the payload into the best possible orbit "for a pretty modest weight penalty, you know, the weight of a parachute, the weight of the subsystem," Bruno said.

    For a booster, five pounds of inert weight only costs one pound of payload, he added, whereas it's pound for pound on an upper stage.

    In any case, Bruno said the entry environment behind the heat shield is much more benign than what a Falcon 9 experiences with its tail-first propulsive descent and ULA engineers expect engine refurbishment to be a relatively straight forward affair.

    "The engines that we're developing we think are going to be pretty easy to refurbish," Bruno said. "What we think we're going to do is get them back, inspect them, for the first few times we'll likely hot fire them to make sure we know how they're behaving. If they're behaving the way we expect, we'll probably stop doing that. We'll just clean them up, inspect them and use them."

    Along with recoverable first stage engines, the Vulcan first stage features redesigned plumbing with an internal liquid oxygen feed line, freeing up real estate on the side of the rocket for a sixth strap-on solid-fuel booster.

    The Vulcan will be marketed in a variety of configurations depending on payload requirements. If all six SRBs are used, liftoff thrust will be 3.8 million pounds, out performing the Delta 4.

    ULA has not yet announced which company will provide the upper stage engines used for the rocket's initial flights before a planned performance upgrade. But the company expects to introduce the ACES upper stage in 2024.

    Featuring up to four hydrogen-fueled rocket engines, ACES will carry three times the propellant of current ULA upper stages, will be able to operate for weeks or months at a time and will enable complex orbital operations near Earth, the moon or beyond.

    The keys to its performance are ultra lightweight propellant tanks and dual "straight-six" internal combustion engines mounted on the bottom of the stage burning gaseous oxygen and hydrogen produced by the normal "boil off" of propellants in the main tanks.

    The 1,000-cc engines, under development at Roush Fenway Racing, will be used to pressurize the propulsion system, push propellants to attitude control jets and generate electrical power, allowing ULA to replace multiple systems with a single solution.

    "In a conventional stage, you've got to have electrical power, so you have big, long-duration batteries," Bruno said. "You have to have an attitude control system, so you have typically an entirely separate propulsion system, usually hydrazine. And then you need to pressurize your propellant, which you use (helium) to do."

    Such stages typically have lifetimes measured in hours because the supercold propellants are continually boiling off into gas and batteries lose their power.

    ACES solves those problems by using the internal combustion engines to accomplish all of those tasks over an extended period.

    "The engine has a generator on it just like your car does so you don't need the batteries anymore," Bruno said. "And we're using the power that comes off of that internal combustion engine to run a compressor and a heat exchanger ... that's putting energy back into the gases. We pipe them back up into the tank and that pressurizes the tanks. So we don't need helium at all anymore."

    Or heavy time-limited batteries.

    "Each one of these (generators) throws off about 60 kilowatts," Bruno said. "We run a Centaur (stage) at about 10 watts. So now you've got 120 kilowatts of electrical power that you could use for other things."

    And the same waste hydrogen and oxygen burned by the engines also can be used to power the stage's attitude control thrusters, eliminating the need for a separate propulsion system using toxic hydrazine.

    "So as long as you've got all of this gaseous hydrogen and gaseous oxygen you have propellant," Bruno said. "So we've also developed (oxygen-hydrogen) thrusters and we've been testing those as well. They provide the attitude control and ... that allows us to delete the entire hydrazine system.

    "So that's how it works. We've probably got, I'd say 300, 350 tests on that engine now. It's pretty cool."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.03.2018 16:08:23
    ЦитироватьMichael Baylor‏ @nextspaceflight (https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight) 11h11 hours ago (https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/976642892562354176)

    Cool graphic on the current fleet of @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) rockets.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/174429.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 22.03.2018 16:11:27
    https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/commercial-space/ula_cislunar_cu_march2018.pdf

    ЦитироватьENGINEERING
    LIMITLESS
    POSSIBILITIES
    03.20.18
    Tory Bruno

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 22.03.2018 23:49:38
    Цитировать (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg)  Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight)
    ARTICLE: ULA laying the foundations for an Econosphere in CisLunar space - https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/03/ula-laying-foundations-econosphere-cislunar-space/ ... (https://t.co/f9LR1bMD9u) Latest reference baseline for CisLunar Econosphere. More to come on Vulcan/ACES. (Thanks to @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) for putting the slides together and @CUEngineering (https://twitter.com/CUEngineering) for webcasting it).
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/174451.jpg)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/174452.jpg)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/174453.jpg)
     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/174454.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 26.03.2018 00:46:40
    http://spacenews.com/air-force-stakes-future-on-privately-funded-launch-vehicles-will-the-gamble-pay-off/
    ЦитироватьAir Force stakes future on privately funded launch vehicles. Will the gamble pay off?
    by Sandra Erwin (http://spacenews.com/author/sandra-erwin/) — March 25, 2018

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/155780.png)
    The Vulcan Centaur rocket. Credit: ULA

    Analyst Bill Ostrove: Vulcan's first flight has slipped from 2019 to 2020. "The engine choice will affect the design of the entire rocket."

    WASHINGTON — The schedule is getting tight for the U.S. Air Force as a 2022 deadline looms to bid farewell to the Atlas 5 and switch to a different rocket that is not powered by a Russian engine.

    The target date was mutually agreed by Congress and the Air Force in 2016, allowing what was considered sufficient time to find alternatives to the United Launch Alliance's Atlas 5 that uses the Russian RD-180 engine. The solution they settled on was for the Air Force to sign deals with the space industry to co-finance the development of new rocket propulsion systems.
    Спойлер
    The program known as the "launch service agreement" fits the Air Force's broader goal to get out of the business of "buying rockets" and instead acquire end-to-end services from companies.

    The Air Force signed cost-sharing partnerships with ULA, SpaceX, Orbital ATK and Aerojet Rocketdyne. The original request for proposals noted the Air Force wants to "leverage commercial launch solutions in order to have at least two domestic, commercial launch service providers."

    The next step is to sel ect three companies this summer to move forward with enginet prototypes.

    "We are on schedule to make LSA awards in July 2018," a spokesman for the Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center told SpaceNews.

    The sel ected competitors will face a schedule that seems ambitious even by the standards of commercial space companies.

    ULA's CEO Tory Bruno called the launch service agreement a "pretty rational" approach that puts the onus on the private sector.

    As the operator of the Atlas 5 rocket, ULA will come under enormous scrutiny as it moves to develop its replacement, the Vulcan Centaur vehicle. Although the Atlas 5 will continue to be sold commercially, without the ability to offer Atlas 5 to the military after 2022, the future of ULA rests on Vulcan.

    Which explains why there is so much anticipation about what engine ULA will sel ect for the reusable first stage of the Vulcan Centaur. It is considering either the BE-4 made by startup Blue Origin or the AR-1 designed by established military contractor Aerojet Rocketdyne. The new first stage would be paired with the existing Centaur upper stage from the Atlas 5. A decision was expected months ago, and Bruno has said recently that it is "coming soon."

    Asked about the implications of the delayed engine selection on the LSA program, the Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center spokesman said officials would not comment on an ongoing source selection.

    During a recent talk with reporters, Bruno predicted ULA would be able to meet the LSA timelines regardless of what engine is picked. From the government's perspective, the risk lies in the fact that private industry is "bringing most of the money," he said. "That's always what governs a big complicated aerospace development program — being funded."

    The good news for the government is that there are multiple bidders, Bruno said. "That bodes well, that means the government has choices."

    Vulcan Centaur is 75 percent privately funded, Bruno said. To remain a contender in the LSA program, it needs to be ready for certification flights by 2020. ULA has agreed to two non-government flights to certify Vulcan for national security missions. The certification could happen as early as 2020 or early 2021.

    "We feel very confident about our schedule and our plan to achieve that whole timeline," he said.

    The engine choice has kept the industry in suspense. (http://spacenews.com/be-4-engine-tests-continue-as-ula-waits-to-make-vulcan-engine-decision/)

    The Blue Origin engine is further along in development than the AR-1, although there are other issues to consider. "If we were to select AR-1 that puts more pressure on the schedule," said Bruno. "But it does not necessarily invalidate the LSA requirements. I have much less schedule margin if I choose AR-1. But I could still meet the timelines."

    Some companies in the LSA program are partners and rivals at the same time. Orbital ATK will compete with its own rocket but it also has invested in the development of the Vulcan solid rocket booster. There is speculation that Blue Origin could also jump into the LSA fray with its New Glenn rocket.

    "Having a competitor in my supply chain ... Absolutely that is considered carefully," said Bruno. "That is not unusual in our industry." Orbital ATK is not only a competitor and major supplier to ULA but also a ULA customer for cargo missions to the International Space Station.

    Orbital ATK has made a "substantial investment in developing that component for Vulcan," he noted. "The supplier in this case is investing their own money. In exchange we give them a long-term contract that allows us to have stability in pricing."

    Blue Origin is investing a "considerable amount," he said. "To a lesser degree Aerojet Rocketdyne is investing their own funding in AR-1." The engines are the most expensive parts of the rocket, accounting for two-thirds of the cost of the booster.

    Timeline too ambitious?

    William Ostrove, aerospace and defense analyst at Forecast International, noted that ULA has been on the verge of picking a winner "for a long time."

    Vulcan's first flight has slipped fr om 2019 to 2020, said Ostrove. "The engine choice will affect the design of the entire rocket. A decision has to be made if the Air Force is going to stick to the plan" of phasing out the Atlas 5 by 2022.

    The delay could be adding risk to the Air Force LSA strategy, Ostrove said. For the program to succeed, launch contractors need to have both government and commercial business. "If there is no market for these large launch vehicles then the Air Force may have to step in and provide more funds." That is exactly what the Air Force had to do more than a decade ago with Atlas 5 and Delta 4, which were originally intended as dual use.

    A contrarian view comes fr om the defense industry establishment. Loren Thompson, of the Lexington Institute — a think tank that receives funding fr om ULA owners Boeing and Lockheed Martin, Aerojet and other defense firms — has called on the Air Force to keep the Atlas 5 and swap the RD-180 engine for Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 rather than develop a new launch vehicle.

    "In an effort to save time and money, they accept greater risk," Thompson told SpaceNews. "In an attempt to spur innovation, they turn to untested commercial products and practices. This approach was an utter failure in the 1990s, and yet we are gradually backing into the same errors again."

    Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson has expressed confidence in the LSA approach.

    "We are cost sharing with companies as they develop alternatives to the Russian engine," she told reporters last month on Capitol Hill. "We are doing that intentionally. We need a couple of options. It's a risky business," Wilson said.

    The program is moving forward as planned, she said. "Usually if they haven't walked in and said, 'Houston we've got a problem,' it means it's continuing on, on schedule."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Сергей от 26.03.2018 09:36:42
    И что показательно, выбор между Атласом с AR-1 и Вулканом с ВЕ-4, определяется временем завершения отработки двигателей.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 26.03.2018 19:57:51
    Под AR1 Атлас нужно только чуть растянуть и все переделки...
    На месте вояк, я бы настоял довести этот проект до конца.
    Хотя на подхвате всегда SpaceX, да и Orbital не против поучавствовать со своим твердотопливных монстриком.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 26.03.2018 19:58:58
    ЦитироватьСергей пишет:
    И что показательно, выбор между Атласом с AR-1 и Вулканом с ВЕ-4, определяется временем завершения отработки двигателей.
    И пока сроки - не в пользу AR1.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.04.2018 03:10:17
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg)Tory Bruno‏Подлинная учетная запись @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) 39 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/987473611672858624)

    Vulcan is coming

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/163073.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 11.05.2018 19:32:35
    https://www.ulalaunch.com/about/news/2018/05/11/united-launch-alliance-selects-aerojet-rocketdyne-s-rl10-engine-for-next-generation-vulcan-centaur-upper-stage
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Selects Aerojet Rocketdyne's RL10 Engine for Next-generation Vulcan Centaur Upper Stage

    Centennial, Colo., May 11, 2018 – United Launch Alliance (ULA) today announced Aerojet Rocketdyne as a strategic partner for the RL10 upper stage engine for ULA's next-generation Vulcan Centaur rocket following a competitive procurement process.
    Спойлер
    "ULA and Aerojet Rocketdyne have a long and successful history together that began with the first flight of our Atlas and Delta rockets in the 1960s," said Tory Bruno, ULA president and CEO. "We could not be more pleased to have selected the proven and reliable RL10 to power our Vulcan Centaur upper stage."

    This partnership is a long-term agreement for Aerojet Rocketdyne to provide upper stage propulsion for the next decade. As part of this partnership, Aerojet Rocketdyne will provide RL10s and develop the RL10C-X, the next generation of the RL10 family. The RL10C-X will increase the use of additive manufacturing and introduce other advanced technologies to improve the quality, reliability, affordability and performance.

    "Key determining factors to our selection included price and delivery schedule," said Bruno. "We look forward to continuing our strong partnership to ensure a successful introduction of Vulcan Centaur."

    Over the course of nearly 60 years, more than 450 RL10 engines have flown on various ULA heritage vehicles with an unmatched record of mission success.

    ULA continues its competitive procurement process for the booster engine and plans to make a down select soon.

    With more than a century of combined heritage, United Launch Alliance is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 125 satellites to orbit that provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, enable personal device-based GPS navigation and unlock the mysteries of our solar system.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 11.05.2018 20:50:30
    RL-10 был, RL-10 есть, RL-10 будет есть!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 11.05.2018 23:23:47
    ЦитироватьСтарый пишет:
    RL-10 будет есть!
    Есть будет Аэроджет :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 13.05.2018 18:58:59
    ЦитироватьTesla4Everman‏ @Everman (https://twitter.com/Everman) May 11 (https://twitter.com/Everman/status/995038624436572160)

    Tesla4Everman Retweeted SpaceX

    I still remember when I sat in ULA headquarters and their lead mechanical engineer explained to us that reusability was in fact impossible, or more precisely, that the amount of extra fuel and equipment would render net payload reduced to zero. Impossible is a funny word. $TSLA (https://twitter.com/search?q=%24TSLA&src=ctag)


    ЦитироватьChris Strom‏ @cgstrom (https://twitter.com/cgstrom) May 12 (https://twitter.com/cgstrom/status/995134791052877824)

    Replying to @Everman (https://twitter.com/Everman)

    A ULA engineer once told me that exact same thing too. Whoops.


    Интересно, тот главный инженер до сих пор работает в ULA? :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 10.09.2018 16:12:05
    https://www.viasat.com/news/viasat-selects-united-launch-alliances-proven-atlas-v-rocket-commercial-satellite-launch
    ЦитироватьViasat Selects United Launch Alliance's Proven Atlas V Rocket For Commercial Satellite Launch

    PARIS, Sept. 10, 2018 – Global communications company, Viasat Inc. (https://www.viasat.com/home), (Nasdaq: VSAT) announced today it sel ected United Launch Alliance's (ULA's) (https://www.ulalaunch.com/) proven Atlas V vehicle to launch one of its ViaSat-3 satellite missions. This is the first commercial contract ULA has directly signed since assuming responsibility for the marketing and sales of the Atlas V launch vehicle fr om Lockheed Martin Commercial Launch Services earlier this year.

    The Viasat mission will carry one of the ViaSat-3 series spacecraft and is scheduled to launch in the 2020 - 2022 timeframe fr om Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida. This mission will launch aboard an Atlas V 551 configuration vehicle, the largest in the Atlas V fleet. The 551 configuration provides the performance to deliver a ViaSat-3 satellite into a high-energy geostationary transfer orbit where it can begin on-orbit operations faster than with other available launch vehicles.
    Спойлер
    The selection of Atlas V for one of the ViaSat-3 missions is the next step in implementing Viasat's integrated launch strategy which is designed to ensure the on-time launch of all of the ViaSat-3 spacecraft through launch vehicle diversity and an integrated approach to launch planning. Viasat will announce specific mission assignments for each of the contracted launch vehicles at a later date.

    "ULA continues to demonstrate schedule certainty and flexibility, as well as be a trustworthy and reliable business partner. This coupled with unmatched Atlas V launch vehicle reliability and tailored mission design capabilities made ULA a strong partner for a ViaSat-3 launch mission," said Dave Ryan, president, Space Systems at Viasat. "ULA is known for providing an innovative launch solution that is focused on mission success, which will allow us to meet our business objectives to bring high-speed, high-quality broadband connectivity to meet end-user demand."

    "ULA's Atlas V launch vehicle is the most reliable launch vehicle in the world and we could not be more pleased that Viasat, a leading satellite broadband innovator, has recognized the value the Atlas V can offer, and decided to select this rocket to launch its critical commercial communications satellite," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO.

    The ViaSat-3 class of Ka-band satellites is expected to provide unprecedented capabilities in terms of service speed and flexibility for a satellite platform. The first two satellites will focus on the Americas and on Europe, Middle East and Africa (EMEA), respectively, with the third satellite planned for the APAC region, completing Viasat's global service coverage. Each ViaSat-3 class satellite is expected to deliver more than 1-Terabit per second of network capacity, and to leverage high levels of flexibility to dynamically direct capacity to wh ere customers are located.

    Atlas V has launched 78 missions with 100 percent success including 17 successful commercial missions. The workhorse rocket also delivered critical science missions for NASA such as Mars Science Lab, Pluto New Horizons and Mars InSight, and critical missions for the Department of Defense including Space-Based Infrared System (SBIRS) and Wideband Global SATCOM (WGS).
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 10.09.2018 16:15:56
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg)Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 32 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1039131605275693058)

    Viasat Inc. announces the launch of its ViaSat-3 satellite will be conducted by ULA's Atlas V 551 (that's the most powerful Atlas V config), from SLC-41 at Cape Canaveral sometime in the 2020-2022 timeframe.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169327.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 10.09.2018 16:58:29
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1039132238187819008)

    ULA's #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) 551 rocket will launch a commercial @ViasatInc (https://twitter.com/ViasatInc) ViaSat-3 mission in the 2020-2022 timeframe. We'll use the largest configuration of Atlas V to deliver it to a high-energy GTO so it can begin on-orbit operations more quickly #VS3 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VS3?src=hash) http://bit.ly/2N1MOMB  (https://t.co/qSpPnDvUe6)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169328.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 11.09.2018 22:47:13
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/09/11/viasat-selects-atlas-5-rocket-for-broadband-satellite-launch/
    ЦитироватьViasat selects Atlas 5 rocket for broadband satellite launch
    September 11, 2018 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/09/) | Stephen Clark (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144925.jpg)
    File photo of an Atlas 5 rocket launch in 2012, using five strap-on solid rocket boosters. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    A United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket will send one of Viasat's next-generation broadband satellites toward geostationary orbit fr om Cape Canaveral some time between 2020 and 2022, the companies announced Monday.

    The commercial satellite is one of at least three under development by Viasat to expand the telecom providers broadband reach beyond North America to the global market. Viasat says each satellite in its third-generation network, known as ViaSat 3, will provide more than a terabit per second of Ka-band network capacity.
    Спойлер
    Under the terms of the contract announced Monday at Euroconsult's World Satellite Business Week meeting in Paris, ULA will launch one of the ViaSat 3 satellites on an Atlas 5 rocket from Cape Canaveral, using the launcher's most powerful variant with five strap-on solid rocket boosters.

    The financial value of the launch contract was not disclosed by ULA or Viasat.

    The launch booking is the first commercial contract for ULA since the launch operator took over responsibility for commercial marketing and sales of the Atlas 5 rocket from Lockheed Martin in January. The Atlas 5's last launch with a commercial communications satellite was in 2016, with the EchoStar 19/Jupiter 2 broadband satellite for EchoStar and HughesNet, a competitor of Viasat in the space-to-ground broadband market.

    "ULA's Atlas 5 launch vehicle is the most reliable launch vehicle in the world and we could not be more pleased that Viasat, a leading satellite broadband innovator, has recognized the value the Atlas 5 can offer, and decided to sel ect this rocket to launch its critical commercial communications satellite," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO, in a press release announcing the contract.

    Viasat's three new satellites will be parked in geostationary orbit over the equator, with coverage zones over the Americas, Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East, and the Asia-Pacific region. The first two ViaSat 3 satellites are under construction by Boeing, destined to fly over the Americas and Europe and North Africa.
    [свернуть]
    The companies said in a joint statement that the Atlas 5 rocket, in its most capable configuration, can loft the ViaSat 3 satellite "into a high-energy geostationary transfer orbit wh ere it can begin on-orbit operations faster than with other available launch vehicles."

    Satellites heading for geostationary orbit, a circular perch more than 22,000 miles (nearly 36,000 kilometers) above Earth, typically deploy from their launchers in an elliptical transfer orbit, then maneuver into their final position with on-board propulsion. The ViaSat 3 satellites will carry plasma thrusters, a fuel-efficient but low-thrust system that can typically take up to six months to make the journey from a transfer orbit to geostationary orbit.

    Viasat expects that time will be reduced by the Atlas 5 rocket, which can place the satellite closer to its final orbit, reducing the time needed for orbit-raising and accelerating the spacecraft's entry into commercial service.

    One of the ViaSat 3 satellites is reserved to launch fr om French Guiana on an Ariane 5 rocket, and Viasat could use SpaceX's Falcon Heavy to launch another ViaSat 3 spacecraft, converting a previous launch contract for the ViaSat 2 satellite, which the broadband provider switched to an Ariane 5 rocket after Falcon Heavy development delays.
    Спойлер
    "ULA continues to demonstrate schedule certainty and flexibility, as well as be a trustworthy and reliable business partner. This coupled with unmatched Atlas 5 launch vehicle reliability and tailored mission design capabilities made ULA a strong partner for a ViaSat 3 launch mission," said Dave Ryan, president of space systems at Viasat. "ULA is known for providing an innovative launch solution that is focused on mission success, which will allow us to meet our business objectives to bring high-speed, high-quality broadband connectivity to meet end-user demand."

    Viasat has not determined which ViaSat 3 satellite will launch on each rocket, preferring to keep options open based on market demands and launch availability. Viasat officials emphasized the importance of using a diverse set of launchers in the ViaSat 3 satellite deployments.

    "The selection of Atlas 5 for one of the ViaSat 3 missions is the next step in implementing Viasat's integrated launch strategy which is designed to ensure the on-time launch of all of the ViaSat 3 spacecraft through launch vehicle diversity and an integrated approach to launch planning," ULA and Viasat said in a press release
    [свернуть]
    .
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 18.09.2018 22:55:04
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185703.jpg)Northrop Grumman‏Подлинная учетная запись @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) 17 сент. (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1041757685073551362)

    Thursday we will be firing one of our newly-developed Graphite Epoxy Motors (GEM) 63. These motors will be used to support intermediate- and large-class launch vehicles including @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)'s #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash). Stay tuned for more info! #NorthropGrumman (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NorthropGrumman?src=hash)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170311.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 19.09.2018 17:20:48
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185703.jpg)Northrop Grumman‏Подлинная учетная запись @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) 1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1042397906303700992)

    We are at our test site in Promontory, Utah, as we prepare for the static test of our next generation #GEM63 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GEM63?src=hash) booster tomorrow! We are partnering with @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) to qualify these motors for launches beginning next year.
    #NorthropGrumman (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NorthropGrumman?src=hash)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/169534.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 21:22:13
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 20 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1042835625605574657)

    Heads up! @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) is doing the 1st ground test of its new GEM 63 solid rocket motor. GEM 63 solids will give a boost to #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) beginning with the STP-3 mission. Test @ 1pmMT; @SpaceflightIns (https://twitter.com/SpaceflightIns) will have the broadcast at 12:30pmMT (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125513.png)(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125513.png)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 21:25:31
    Трансляция на ТыТрубе "SFI Live: GEM 63 Test Fire"

    youtube.com/watch?v=oi9XDMuSHgM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9XDMuSHgM)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 22:06:19
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185703.jpg)Northrop Grumman‏Подлинная учетная запись @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) 5 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1042850888480681984)

    3 - 2 - 1 Fire! Our #GEM63 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GEM63?src=hash) booster is firing for 110 seconds during its first ground test at our Promontory, Utah, test site. Stay tuned for photos!
    #NorthropGrumman (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NorthropGrumman?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 22:31:32
    Трансляция SFT GEM 63 - отвратная. Просто немного скриншотов:
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/87983) (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/87984) (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/87985) (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/87986) (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/87987)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 22:36:25
    ЦитироватьSFI Live: GEM 63 Test Fire

    SpaceFlight Insider - Official Page (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5MRkx4JyPAjBVl2g_23BwQ)

    Трансляция началась 1 час назад

    Join SpaceFlight Insider's Jason Rhian and a series of special guests during the 45 minutes leading up to the test fire of a GEM 63 rocket motor.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9XDMuSHgMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9XDMuSHgM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9XDMuSHgM) (51:19)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 22:44:29
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185703.jpg)Northrop Grumman‏Подлинная учетная запись @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) 2 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1042860810387816449)

    First photos coming in of our #GEM63 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GEM63?src=hash) test! The motor fired for 110 seconds to test various objectives including insulation and ballistic performance. These motors will be used on @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) vehicles beginning next year. (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125513.png)
    #NorthropGrumman (https://twitter.com/hashtag/NorthropGrumman?src=hash)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170087.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.09.2018 22:52:31
    ЦитироватьNorthrop Grumman to Test First GEM 63 Motor

    Northrop Grumman (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiTTe3mBodoZVGVhQDpEFjg)

    Опубликовано: 18 сент. 2018 г.

    On Thursday, September 20, Northrop Grumman will conduct its first ground test of a 63-inch diameter Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM 63) in Promontory, Utah. Utilizing advanced technologies, the company developed this new rocket motor for use on the United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V launch vehicle.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCOpgOfS7bAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCOpgOfS7bA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCOpgOfS7bA) (1:22)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.09.2018 10:07:35
    https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-successfully-completes-first-qualification-test-of-new-rocket-motor-for-united-launch-alliance-atlas-v
    ЦитироватьNorthrop Grumman Successfully Completes First Qualification Test of New Rocket Motor for United Launch Alliance Atlas V

    Graphite epoxy motors will help launch rocket beginning in 2019

    September 20, 2018

    Dulles, Va. – Sept. 20, 2018 – Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) conducted its first ground test of a 63-inch diameter Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM 63) today in Promontory, Utah. Utilizing advanced technologies, the company developed this new rocket motor for use on the United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V launch vehicle.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/190728.jpg)
    On Sept. 20, 2018, in Promontory, Utah, Northrop Grumman conducted the first ground test of its newly-developed GEM 63 rocket motor that will fly on United Launch Alliance's Atlas V launch vehicle.
    Northrop Grumman began developing the motor just three years ago, reaching this static test milestone in rapid time for such a complex drop-in solution to an existing launch vehicle. The team developed the innovative design that tailors motor performance to meet ULA design objectives under a cooperative development program.

    "Northrop Grumman has been supplying solid propulsion motors for a variety of launch vehicles since 1964," said Scott Lehr, president, flight systems, Northrop Grumman. "As ULA's largest legacy supplier of solid propulsion, we're pleased that our most recent product has reached this important milestone. The successful completion of this test enables full production to begin."

    The GEM 63 motor will be used as a direct replacement of the previous strap-on boosters on ULA's Atlas V rocket beginning in July 2019 with the Space Test Program (STP)-3 mission that will use five boosters. Additional missions will follow, each of which may include up to five solid rocket motors.
    Спойлер
    The relationship with ULA began in 1964 when Thiokol (a Northrop Grumman predecessor company), in Huntsville, Alabama, provided three CASTOR® I strap-on rocket motors for the Delta D rocket. Several years later, CASTOR IIs flew on the Delta E rocket, and subsequently CASTOR IVs helped launch higher-performing Delta rockets. Also, CASTOR IVAs flew on the Atlas IIAS vehicle from 1993 to 2004, when 120 solid rocket boosters flew on 30 successful Atlas IIAS launches. Prior to the current Delta IV heavy launch vehicle, Northrop Grumman provided the large three-segmented Solid Rocket Motor Upgrade (SRMU) strap-on booster for the Titan IVB rocket. Thirty four SRMUs successfully flew on Titan IV from 1997 to 2005.

    Northrop Grumman, then Hercules, began developing the GEM family of strap-on motors in the late 1980s with the GEM 40, 1,003 of which have subsequently flown on 132 successful Delta II launches. The company also developed the GEM 46, 54 of which flew on six successful Delta II-Heavy launches. Northrop Grumman later developed the GEM 60, and to date 62 of these motors have flown on 25 successful Delta IV launches. The company's family of GEM 63 rocket motors builds on this extensive flight history.
    [свернуть]
    Northrop Grumman is also developing a GEM 63XL motor using internal funding for use on ULA's Vulcan Centaur rocket, which will fly with up to six GEM 63XLs per flight. The first GEM 63XL case, which is the longest non-segmented, monolithic case ever manufactured, has already been wound at a new facility in Clearfield, Utah.

    Both versions of the GEM 63 family use common materials and processes to maintain a high-reliability, low-cost product. The next GEM 63 motor test, scheduled for November, will satisfy additional requirements for certification by the U.S. Air Force.
    Спойлер
    Northrop Grumman is a leading global security company providing innovative systems, products and solutions in autonomous systems, cyber, C4ISR, space, strike, and logistics and modernization to customers worldwide. Please visit news.northropgrumman.com (http://news.northropgrumman.com/) and follow us on Twitter, @NGCNews (http://www.twitter.com/ngcnews), for more information.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.09.2018 10:28:55
    ЦитироватьGEM 63 Rocket Motor QM-1 Static Test

    Northrop Grumman (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiTTe3mBodoZVGVhQDpEFjg)

    Опубликовано: 20 сент. 2018 г.

    Our GEM 63 rocket motor fired for approximately 105 seconds September 20 as we completed its first ground test at our Promontory, Utah, test site. The booster, developed for use on the United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket, will be used as a direct replacement of the previous strap-on boosters beginning in July 2019.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwlOG9Z7YHUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwlOG9Z7YHU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwlOG9Z7YHU) (1:54)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.09.2018 21:56:10
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186040.jpg)Chris B - NSF‏ @NASASpaceflight (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight) 19 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/NASASpaceflight/status/1043206394080645120)

    ARTICLE:
    NGIS fires up GEM-63 motor destined for future ULA launches -

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2018/09/ngis-gem-63-motor-future-ula-launches/ ... (https://t.co/nZiIne6ijZ)

    - By Justin Davenport (@Bubbinski (https://twitter.com/Bubbinski)) who attended the firing for NSF and reviewed the test in his article.

    Vulcan render by Nathan Koga (@kogavfx (https://twitter.com/kogavfx)) for NSF.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170161.jpg)
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170163.jpg)(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170164.jpg)(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170162.jpg)
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.09.2018 16:50:17
    https://tass.ru/kosmos/5612323
    Цитировать27 СЕН, 15:27

    WSJ: Blue Origin получила контракт на поставку двигателей для новых ракет Vulcan

    По данным газеты, носитель к 2022-2023 годам заменит находящиеся сейчас в эксплуатации ракеты Atlas V, на которых устанавливаются российские РД-180

    НЬЮ-ЙОРК, 27 сентября. /ТАСС/. Американская компания Blue Origin получила контракт на поставку новых ракетных двигателей BE-4 для перспективных ракет-носителей Vulcan производства компании United Launch Alliance (ULA). Об этом сообщила в четверг со ссылкой на собственные источники газета The Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/europe).

    По ее данным, ULA позднее в четверг официально объявит о решении предоставить Blue Origin Джеффа Безоса контракт на поставку новых ракетных двигателей. Первый запуск ракеты Vulcan намечен на 2020 год. Планируется, что этот носитель к 2022-2023 годам заменит находящиеся сейчас в эксплуатации ракеты Atlas V, на которых устанавливаются РД-180.
    ...
    Blue Origin - одна из нескольких частных компаний, намеревающихся осуществлять регулярные туристические полеты в космос. Она базируется в городе Кент (штат Вашингтон) и принадлежит предпринимателю-миллиардеру Джеффу Безосу. Совместно с консорциумом ULA, созданным корпорациями Boeing и Lockheed Martin, Blue Origin разрабатывает новый двигатель, который должен прийти на смену российскому РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.09.2018 23:15:41
    https://www.ulalaunch.com/about/news-detail/2018/09/27/united-launch-alliance-building-rocket-of-the-future-with-industry-leading-strategic-partnerships
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance Building Rocket of the Future with Industry-Leading Strategic Partnerships

    ULA Selects Blue Origin Advanced Booster Engine for Vulcan Centaur Rocket System

    Centennial, Colo., Sept. 27, 2018  – United Launch Alliance's (ULA) next-generation rocket - the Vulcan Centaur - is making strong progress in development and is on track for its initial flight in mid-2020. The Vulcan Centaur rocket design leverages the proven success of the Delta IV and Atlas V launch vehicles while introducing advanced technologies and innovative features. 

    "Vulcan Centaur will revolutionize spaceflight and provide affordable, reliable access to space for our current and future customers," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "We are well on our way to the introduction of Vulcan Centaur – the future of U.S. rocket manufacturing. With state-of-the-art engineering and manufacturing techniques, this rocket is designed specifically for low recurring cost."

    The new rocket design is nearing completion, and the booster preliminary design and critical design reviews have been completed. Vulcan Centaur will have a maximum liftoff thrust of 3.8 million pounds and carry 56,000 pounds to low Earth orbit, 33,000 pounds to a geo-transfer orbit and 16,000 pounds to geostationary orbit with greater capability than any currently available single-core launch vehicle.

    "Our new rocket will be superior in reliability, cost and capability – one system for all missions," said Bruno. "We have been working closely with the U.S. Air Force, and our certification plan is in place."

    Following completion of a competitive procurement, ULA has selected Blue Origin's BE-4 engine for Vulcan Centaur's booster stage. The liquefied natural gas (LNG) fueled booster will be powered by a pair of BE-4 engines, each producing 550,000 pounds of sea level thrust. As previously announced, ULA has selected Aerojet Rocketdyne's RL10 engine for the Centaur upper stage, Northrop Grumman solid rocket boosters, L‑3 Avionics Systems avionics, and RUAG's payload fairings and composite structures for the new Vulcan Centaur rocket system.
    Спойлер
    "We are pleased to enter into this partnership with Blue Origin and look forward to a successful first flight of our next-generation launch vehicle," said Bruno.

    "We are very glad to have our BE-4 engine selected by United Launch Alliance. United Launch Alliance is the premier launch service provider for national security missions, and we're thrilled to be part of their team and that mission," said Blue Origin CEO Bob Smith. "We can't thank Tory Bruno and the entire United Launch Alliance team enough for entrusting our engine to powering the Vulcan rocket's first stage."

    Vulcan Centaur will bolster U.S. manufacturing by adding to the more than 22,000 direct and indirect American jobs in 46 states supported by ULA programs.

    "ULA has chosen the best systems available to create the Vulcan Centaur," said Bruno. "These engines and components will ensure ULA continues to lead the way in space exploration, maintain our record of success and remain America's launch vehicle for our nation's most vital missions."

    Vulcan Centaur is ULA's next-generation, American rocket system. As a result of these agreements, the Vulcan Centaur will surpass current rocket capabilities and launch services at significantly lower costs, while still meeting the requirements of ULA's cooperative research and development agreement with the U.S. Air Force to certify the Vulcan Centaur for national security space missions.

    "Strong partners are critical to the cutting-edge innovation that is leading us into the next generation in space and ensuring mission success," said Bruno. "Partnerships with Blue Origin, Aerojet Rocketdyne, Northrop Grumman, L-3 Avionics Systems and RUAG will allow the Vulcan Centaur to transform the future of space launch for the government and commercial markets, making launch more affordable, accessible and commercially available."

    With more than a century of combined heritage, ULA is the world's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered 130 satellites to orbit that provide Earth observation capabilities, enable global communications, unlock the mysteries of our solar system, and support life-saving technology.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.09.2018 23:22:14
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 8 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1045406241131032576)

    Our partnerships w/ @BlueOrigin (https://twitter.com/blueorigin) as well as @AerojetRDyne (https://twitter.com/AerojetRdyne) @NorthropGrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) L-3 Avionics & @RUAGSpace (https://twitter.com/RuagSpace) will allow this next-gen American rocket to affordably transform the future of space launch! #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/170660.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.09.2018 23:22:56
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 8 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1045406396592914433)

    Design is nearing completion. Booster PDR and CDRs are complete! (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125614.png) We've worked closely w/ @usairforce (https://twitter.com/usairforce) since the beginning of development, and our certification plan is in place. #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 28.09.2018 13:48:32
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/09/28/bezos-rocket-engine-selected-for-new-vulcan-rocket/
    ЦитироватьBezos rocket engine sel ected for new Vulcan rocket
    September 28, 2018 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/09/) | William Harwood (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/bill-harwood/)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144955.jpg)
    Artist's concept of United Launch Alliance's Vulcan rocket. Credit: ULA

    Ending months of speculation, Blue Origin, a company owned by Amazon-founder Jeff Bezos, has won a milestone contract to provide first-stage rocket engines for a powerful new booster being designed by United Launch Alliance to replace its current fleet of Atlas and Delta launchers, the companies announced Thursday.

    Powered by liquefied natural gas and liquid oxygen, Blue Origin's BE-4 engine was sel ected over Aerojet Rocketdyne's more traditional kerosene-burning AR1 for use in ULA's new Vulcan rocket, expected to make its first flight in the mid-2020 timeframe.

    "Big win for @BlueOrigin today!" Bezos tweeted. "And a big thank you to @ulalaunch for choosing our BE-4 engine. Excited to be a part of Vulcan's mission to space."

    The BE-4 engine will eventually end ULA's reliance on Russian-built RD-180 first-stage engines currently powering the first stage of the company's workhorse Atlas 5. RD-180s burn kerosene and oxygen and develop 860,000 pounds of thrust at sea level.

    Two BE-4 engines, generating 550,000 pounds of thrust each, will power the Vulcan's first stage, along with strap-on solid-fuel boosters provided by Northrup Grumman as required by payload weight and trajectory. Maximum liftoff thrust will be 3.8 million pounds and the rocket will be partially reusable.

    Aerojet Rocketdyne hydrogen-fueled RL10 engines will power the Vulcan's second stage when the initial version begins operations. A more powerful upper stage, the Advanced Cryogenic Evolved Stage, or ACES, will be phased in later.
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144954.jpg)
    The Vulcan rocket will feature two BE-4 first stage engines, RL10 engines on the Centaur upper stage, and solid rocket boosters. Credit: ULA

    ULA plans to continue launching Atlas 5s well into the early 2020s while the Vulcan transition proceeds. The Atlas 5 will be used as planned to launch Boeing's CST-100 Starliner commercial crew capsule to ferry astronauts to and from the International Space Station starting next year.

    "We are pleased to enter into this partnership with Blue Origin and look forward to a successful first flight of our next-generation launch vehicle," ULA CEO Tory Bruno said in a statement.

    Blue Origin CEO Bob Smith added: "United Launch Alliance is the premier launch service provider for national security missions, and we're thrilled to be part of their team and that mission. We can't thank Tory Bruno and the entire United Launch Alliance team enough for entrusting our engine to powering the Vulcan rocket's first stage."

    United Launch Alliance is a partnership between Boeing, original builder of the Delta family of rockets, and Lockheed Martin, developer of the Atlas 5, that was formed primarily to provide assured access to space for high-priority national security payloads

    Blue Origin also plans to use the BE-4 in the first stage of its New Glenn rocket, which will compete with both SpaceX and ULA launchers when it debuts in the early to mid 2020s. The New Glenn first stage is designed to land vertically for refurbishment and reuse.

    A two-stage version of the New Glenn booster will stand some 27 stories tall and will generate 3.85 million pounds of thrust at liftoff using seven BE-4 engines. The second stage will be powered by two BE-3 engines.

    The BE-3 already is in use with Blue Origin's sub-orbital New Shepard rocket, designed to carry tourists, researchers and small payloads to the edge of space and back from a launch site in Texas.

    The company has built a huge manufacturing facility near the Kennedy Space Center in Florida to assemble New Glenn rockets, which will be launched fr om nearby Cape Canaveral. Bezos has said he is spending roughly $1 billion a year on his space ventures.

    Bezos and Bruno announced an initial agreement to develop BE-4 engines for ULA rockets in September 2014.

    "I think it's pretty clear it's time for a 21st century booster engine," Bezos said at the time. "The great engines of the past were truly remarkable machines in their own right ... but we have tools and capabilities, software simulations, computational horsepower that the builders of those great engines could have only dreamed about.

    "We can build an engine today that is a 21st century engine that has great reliability, low cost of operations and high performance," he said. "And we're super excited about that, and we couldn't be more excited to have a partner like ULA."

    But Aerojet Rocketdyne threw its hat into the ring with plans to develop the AR1, generating 500,000 pounds of thrust, and it soon became clear Blue Origin no longer had a lock on the engine selection. That fueled intense speculation across the space industry about how the competition might play out.

    In any case, the selection of Blue Origin's BE-4 means ULA will be relying on an eventual competitor to provide the engines needed for its next-generation rocket. Contract details were not revealed, but it presumably includes delivery guarantees that meet ULA's approval.

    "It is a great day for the Blue Origin team!" the company tweeted late Thursday. "We are honored @ulalaunch has selected Blue's LOX/LNG BE-4 engine to power the Vulcan rocket's first stage."

    ULA's decision to replace its Delta and Atlas rockets with a single system came in the wake of widely publicized complaints fr om SpaceX founder Elon Musk that criticized the use of the Russian-built RD-180 to launch U.S. national security payloads and what he viewed as a ULA military launch monopoly.

    Musk also criticized the high cost of the heavy-lift Delta 4, which uses Aerojet Rocketdyne RS-68 first stage engines and is currently the most powerful fully operational rocket in the U.S. inventory. It also is the most expensive and is used exclusively for national security and NASA payloads.

    Musk eventually won the right to bid on high-value military payloads and since then, competition between SpaceX and ULA has been fierce, with ULA trimming costs and arguing its unblemished launch record, presumably lower insurance rates and schedule reliability make up for a higher price tag for the Atlas 5 compared to SpaceX's Falcon 9.

    But Falcon 9s cost tens of millions less than the Atlas 5, an obvious selling point in the commercial launch industry. The eventual cost of the Vulcan is not yet known.

    "From low Earth orbit to Pluto, the single-core Vulcan Centaur does it all," ULA says on its website. "This simple design is more cost-efficient for all customers, whether defense and national security, NASA science and human spaceflight, or commercial."
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 28.09.2018 13:59:18
    https://tass.ru/kosmos/5615009
    Цитировать28 СЕН, 10:17
    Компания Джеффа Безоса будет поставлять двигатели для новых ракет Vulcan

    Официально не сообщается, когда будет осуществлен первый запуск ракеты Vulcan, однако, по данным The Wall Street Journal, он намечен на 2020 год

    НЬЮ-ЙОРК, 28 сентября. Компания Джеффа Безоса Blue Origin получила контракт на поставку новых ракетных двигателей BE-4 для перспективных ракет-носителей Vulcan производства компании United Launch Alliance (ULA).

    "ULA выбрала двигатели BE-4 производства Blue Origin для разгонного блока нашей ракеты следующего поколения VulcanCentaur, разработка дизайна которой приближается к концу. Новая американская ракета пополнит наше наследие и будет способствовать внедрению более совершенных технологий и инноваций", - отметила ULA в Twitter (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch).

    United Launch Alliance не уточнила сроков дебютного полета нового носителя. По данным (https://tass.ru/kosmos/5612323) газеты The Wall Street Journal, первый запуск ракеты Vulcan намечен на 2020 год. Планируется, что этот носитель к 2022-2023 годам заменит находящиеся сейчас в эксплуатации ракеты Atlas V, на которых устанавливаются РД-180.
    ...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 11.10.2018 00:40:53
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg)Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 14:16 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1050132892796502018) - 10 окт. 2018 г.

    DOD contract announcement: ULA, Orbital (now Northrop Grumman) and Blue Origin win launch services agreements from the Air Force. Nothing for SpaceX.
    https://dod.defense.gov/News/Contracts/Contract-View/Article/1658771/ (https://t.co/rS5iZnQbuy)


    14:18 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1050133443017883650) - 10 окт. 2018 г.

    ULA: $967M for development of Vulcan Centaur
    Northrop: $791.6M for development of OmegA
    Blue Origin: $500M for development of New Glenn
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 25.10.2018 04:01:41
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186269.jpg)Mary Lynne Dittmar, Ph.D.‏ @DittmarML (https://twitter.com/DittmarML) 5 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/DittmarML/status/1055192627241537536)

    John Elbon of ⁦@ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)⁩ discussing Vulcan development...great flexibility in this range of configurations.
    #VonBraun18 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VonBraun18?src=hash) #VonBraunSymposium (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VonBraunSymposium?src=hash)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/171741.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 28.11.2018 20:56:30
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67585.jpg)Eric Berger‏Подлинная учетная запись @SciGuySpace (https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace) 7:16 (https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1067799348589809664) - 28 нояб. 2018 г

    Louradour, of ULA, says the company's initial Vulcan-Centaur rocket will launch in 2021, and the Vulcan-Centaur Heavy (with an upgraded Centaur second stage) will launch in 2023.


    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg)Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 7:17 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1067799575480725504) - 28 нояб. 2018 г

    Tiphaine Louradour, ULA: Vulcan will be much more simplified in terms of configurations that existing ULA vehicles. (But not down to the 1 version of New Glenn; will still have two different payload fairings and varying number of solid strap-on boosters.) #SpaceCom2018 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceCom2018?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 28.11.2018 20:59:55
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29262.jpg)Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust) 9:24 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1067831486521532417) - 28 нояб. 2018 г.

    Bruno: "significant capital improvements" to ULA's factor in Decatur, Ala., to allow up to 20 Vulcan Centaur rockets a year to be produced there. #SpaceCom2018 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceCom2018?src=hash)


    9:29 (https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1067832878275403776) - 28 нояб. 2018 г.

    Bruno: doing modifications to existing Atlas pads to support Vulcan, making upgrades between launches so that they can support both vehicles. #SpaceCom2018 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceCom2018?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 28.11.2018 21:08:40
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 9:29 (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1067832936815194112) - 28 нояб. 2018 г.

    Modifications under way at Space Launch Complex-41!
    #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash) #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash)
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/186316.jpg) TMRO‏ @tmro (https://twitter.com/tmro) 9:28 (https://twitter.com/tmro/status/1067832533964988417) - 28 нояб. 2018 г.

    Launch pad will support two different rockets! Flexible fingers of structure morph to shape of different rockets and configurations. World first multi-use launch platform!
    @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) #SpaceCom2018 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceCom2018?src=hash)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 9:35 (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1067834437491027968) - 28 нояб. 2018 г.

    .@torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash) single stick will have 25% more capability than #DeltaIV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/DeltaIV?src=hash) Heavy at 1/3 cost.
    #SpaceCom2018 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/SpaceCom2018?src=hash)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 30.11.2018 14:19:48
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29898.jpg)ULA‏Подлинная учетная запись @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) 15:34 (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1068287115761459200) - 29 нояб. 2018 г.

    #ISpy (https://twitter.com/hashtag/ISpy?src=hash) the new liquid natural gas tanks that we'll use to fuel the booster stage of our next-gen #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash) rocket. First launch in 2021!

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/172850.jpg) (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/172849.jpg)


    15:34 (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1068287211634868235) - 29 нояб. 2018 г.

    Modifications are underway to allow Space Launch Complex-41 to support #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) and #VulcanCentaur (https://twitter.com/hashtag/VulcanCentaur?src=hash) launches during the Atlas V flyout.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 18.02.2019 15:27:45
    http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3658/1
    ЦитироватьBuilding a better booster (part 1)
    by Jeffrey L. Smith
    Monday, February 11, 2019  Comments (17) (http://www.thespacereview.com/article/3658/1#idc-container)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235016.jpg)
    Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems successfully test fired the new GEM 63 motor on September 20, 2018. (credit: Northrop Grumman)
     
     Normally, the first test of a new rocket engine or motor is a rather secretive affair witnessed only by engineers and top-level customer representatives. While the tension of firing a new rocket was still present, the atmosphere last September 20, when Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems (NGIS) first fired the new GEM 63 solid rocket motor, was much more festive.
     The GEM 63 is a jointly funded effort between NGIS and the US Air Force, and so it's expected to see airmen and experts fr om the Aerospace Corporation (the Air Force's technical experts on rockets) on hand to witness the event. Much less expected though, were representatives fr om United Launch Alliance (ULA), who will use the GEM 63, and NASA, neither of which were directly paying for the test. Even less surprising was that the event included a soundtrack featuring the greatest hits of The Eagles pumped in through a Jumbotron, and the presence of busloads of schoolchildren and other onlookers who were about to receive the STEM lesson of a lifetime. Such was the apparent confidence of the NGIS team going into a test that they already knew was going to succeed: if they've already got the fireworks, why not have a party?
     The test went off perfectly, putting on a great show and living up to the confidence the NGIS team had in its success. Less than three weeks later, on October 10, this confidence was mirrored by the Air Force as NGIS was included in the next round of Launch Service Agreements to fund development of the next generation of rockets to launch military satellites. In the long-awaited award, ULA won exactly $967 million, Blue Origin was awarded $500 million on the nose, and NGIS won $791,601,015 (can you tell which of these three submitted their Certified Cost or Pricing Data?) With this win, NGIS will continue development of their own OmegA rocket with a first launch planned for 2021. September's test was just the first of many as the GEM 63 family of motors is slated to be used on NGIS's OmegA as well as ULA's current Atlas V and future Vulcan rockets.
     While the NGIS team made testing a new motor and winning a highly competitive contract look easy, anyone in the rocket business knows it takes a lot of unseen work to make it look that easy. Successfully winning a contract is just one important step of many, and does not guarantee a successful outcome. In the past, similarly ambitious programs have sometimes met with disastrous results. The parallels and differences with similar efforts three decades ago provide important insights into how the entire aerospace industry is changing to meet new technical and business challenges.

    Спойлер
    Fireworks at the GEM 63 test

     The GEM 63 program started out of ULA's need to improve both the performance and the price of its next generation rocket. In order to end the use of Russian engines on its existing Atlas V and to better compete with launch companies like SpaceX, in 2015 ULA announced the Vulcan rocket. Vulcan would take the best parts of Atlas and scale them up for the next generation of larger military and civilian satellites.
     At the time, ULA said they would need 20 percent more performance fr om the solid rocket boosters (SRBs) that attach to side of the rocket, but no decision on a supplier was announced. At that point, ULA was purchasing SRBs fr om both of America's premier solid rocket motor manufacturers. Aerojet supplied the AJ-60A for the Lockheed Martin-heritage Atlas V, while Orbital ATK (now NGIS) produced the GEM series for the Boeing-heritage Delta IV rocket. While the first images of Vulcan showed enlarged versions of Aerojet's SRBs, the race was on to see which of the two companies could meet both ULA's cost and performance goals and become the sole motor supplier for Vulcan.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235017.jpg)
    When announced in 2015, initial Vulcan (right) images showed boosters similar to the AJ-60A used on the Atlas V (left). (credit: NASA, ULA)

     Picking the supplier for a critical component of your flagship rocket is a major decision and many factors have to be taken into consideration. While rockets may operate in a vacuum, the rocket industry doesn't. In 2013, Aerojet had acquired Rocketdyne to form Aerojet Rocketdyne, and the new company was looking for ways to reduce costs and save money. As part of these plans, Aerojet would announce moving their corporate headquarters out of the Sacramento, California, suburb of Rancho Cordova in early 2016 as well as the engineering and manufacturing center there just a year later. Either the factory would have to be kept open longer for a single customer or it would require a complete move and reconstitution of the AJ-60A manufacturing line—both expensive propositions.
     Rockets are tricky beasts, and moving a rocket factory is both tricky and expensive. Even if you take the exact same machines and set them up in the exact same way, you can never be certain if they will operate precisely as they had before until you've actually done it. Will the machines vibrate more or less because the ground they sit on is different? Will the operations be affected by differences in humidity because the weather is different in another part of the country? Will all the key people who know how to correctly build your rocket be willing to relocate their families somewh ere else? And finally, how would all these plans affect the Atlas V, which was still scheduled to fly until at least 2022?
     With these events unfolding, Orbital ATK was able to make a double pitch: they would produce a family of two brand new motors. Not only would they promise to make the SRBs for the next generation Vulcan at their existing Utah facilities, but they'd also take on the job of building SRBs for the remaining flights of the Atlas V. It is extremely rare for an existing rocket to switch the manufacturer of such a vital component midway through its operational life. On top of that, Orbital ATK promised to fund all of the upfront engineering costs themselves using a combination of internal and Air Force funding and also deliver the new motors at a price some 40 percent lower (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/981336075544100865?s=21) than the existing AJ-60A, for which ULA charges $5 million (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_V). And so in late 2015, ULA sel ected Orbital ATK (https://www.spaceflightinsider.com/organizations/ula/ula-selects-orbital-atks-gem-6363-xl-srbs-for-atlas-v-and-vulcan-boosters/) to produce all of their future SRBs.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235018.jpg)
    Cross section of the NGIS GEM 63 (above) and the Aerojet AJ-60A (below, with aerodynamic nosecone removed) that it replaces. (credits: above - Northrop Grumman, below - Sutton & Biblarz, 8th ed.)

     The new booster family would come in two versions: the GEM 63 (Graphite-Epoxy Motor case, 63-inch diameter) for the Atlas V and, later, the GEM 63XL (eXtended Length) for the new Vulcan. Both motors have cases made of Hexcel carbon fiber (https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/composite-cases-fuel-commercial-space-venture) and NGIS's own proprietary CLRF-100 epoxy resin that have used on other GEM motors. The motors will be thermally insulated with industry-standard EPDM rubber (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPDM_rubber) on the inside to protect from the extreme temperature of the rocket's flame and sheets of cork on the outside to protect from the intense heating that comes from flying many times the speed of sound.
     Both motors will be filled with NGIS's existing QDL propellant recipe, a high-performance HTPB-based mixture already in use on smaller GEM rocket motors. Inside the GEM 63's 20.1-meter (66-foot) length, the motor will hold 39,700 kilograms (97,500 pounds) of this propellant and burn it up in just 94 seconds to produce a 1,300 psi flame and some 373,000 pounds-force of thrust for the Atlas V. When stretched out to its full 22-meter (72-foot) length, its older sibling the GEM 63XL will burn 48,000 kilograms (105,800 pounds) of propellant to create 454,000 pounds-force of thrust in an even faster 84 seconds!
     For those keeping score at home, that's basically the same size of the Redstone ballistic missile, Wernher von Braun's first American rocket. And thanks to the fact that today's rockets are more efficient and solid propellant is so much more dense than liquid propellants, it has a lot more oomph in the same size package. In 1961, Alan Shepard rode a Redstone-sized rocket into space to become America's first astronaut. Today, that same-sized GEM 63 is now the "small" rocket that is bolted to the side of the much larger Atlas V. And while the Redstone required a government-industry team led by one of history's greatest rocket scientists and backed by a nation's defense budget, today, ULA doesn't bat an eye when NGIS designs and manufactures the same sized rocket in-house at their own expense. American rocketry has come a long way since the early days of Mercury.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235019.jpg)
    The GEM 63 motor case being lowered into the casting pit before the propellant is poured in. The motor has to be moved in a diagonal position because it's too tall for the building! (credit: Northrop Grumman)

     Beyond the raw performance of the GEM 63 motors, there were still challenges to overcome. Both the GEM 63 and 63XL were longer motors than anything Orbital ATK had ever made before, or even envisioned making. The existing casting pits, wh ere the propellant is poured into the empty cases, had to be dug an additional 5.5 meters (18 feet) deeper so the motors would fit.
     And while you can dig a hole deeper, it's hard to lift up an existing building. The cast building was never built to handle such long motors, so the overhead crane can't carry the motor vertically without scraping it along the ground. Clearly that's a bad idea when it comes to space hardware, so it has to be moved through building diagonally and carefully lowered into the pit in a life-sized version of the game Operation.
     NGIS has decades of experience building very high-performance composite cases and these are no different, being designed to operate at a pressure of 1,450 psi. Because rocket engineers are a conservative lot, they actually build the case thicker to hold 40 percent more pressure, some 2,030 psi. And just to be paranoid, before going out the door, each case is filled with water and pressurized to 25 percent above the design pressure (1,813 psi) and checked for leaks. The high internal pressure allows the motor to be fitted with an efficient 14-to-1 expansion ratio nozzle made of carbon phenolic. By comparison, the Space Shuttle's SRBs operated at just 900 psi and so could only be fitted with a 7.7-to-1 expansion ratio nozzle.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235020.jpg)
    GEM 60 (above) and GEM 63 (below). Previous GEM motors located the rocket attach points at the forward and aft skirt (circled). GEM 63 motors wind the attach points into the composite itself. (credits: NGIS)

     The GEM 63 also required NGIS to learn how to attach SRBs in new ways. Propellant tanks, whether they're for solid or liquid propellant, are usually connected to each other at the ends, wh ere they can be easily reinforced. This doesn't particularly impact tanks stacked on top of each other, but does impact rockets when they are attached side-by-side. Unless the liquid propellant tank and SRBs are exactly the same size, one of them has to be built a length that isn't optimal for overall performance. By developing the ability to put the attachment points mid-body on the composite structure, rocket designers like ULA can optimize their own propellant tanks and then simply tell NGIS wh ere to locate their attach points with no impact to the rest of the vehicle.
     The GEM 63 has the requirement to match the AJ60 in terms of fit, form, and function and perfectly replace the existing motor in an already highly optimized system without messing anything up. This is because rocket aerodynamicists are sticklers for telling their chief engineers that they are allowed to modify anything they want inside the rocket, but they can't change a thing with the rocket's outer mold line, speed, or weight distribution or else all of their carefully calculated models instantly become worthless. These handcuffs make it hard to introduce something like a new SRB, but in exchange, the aerodynamicists promise to keep the rockets from falling into the ocean. That last part tends to keep the peace.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235021.jpg)
    NGIS built a temporary freezer around the GEM 63 test stand. It took a full week to lower the motor's 100,000 pounds down to 1°C (34°F). (credit: NGIS)

     In order to be a true drop in replacement, the GEM 63 has to match its performance precisely to the AJ-60A. That means the GEM 63's nozzle is canted (tilted) to the same 3 degrees and it has to operate over the same 4–32°C (40–90°F) range of outside temperatures on launch day. Operating at the very edge of that temperature range was the reason for September's test. Cold temperatures are always more difficult for solid rocket motors than hot temperatures. Not only does the rubbery propellant become stiffer and more brittle, but the now-cold propellant itself burns slower, like firewood that's been kept outside during the winter. This slower burning gives extra time for the flame's heat to penetrate through the insulating rubber and potentially weaken the rocket's structure underneath. And so, to prove the motor would work properly at and beyond its temperature requirement, NGIS built a massive freezer around the GEM 63 test stand and pumped in freezing air for a week to get the motor down to 1°C (34°F). On test day, after the freezer tent had been removed, the motor had warmed up to 3°C (37°F), but was still under the 40ТАF requirement.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235022.jpg)
    Left to right: GEM 63 aft closure assembly before installation; GEM 63 nozzle before test with throat plug installed; GEM 63 nozzle after firing with water deluge arm - visible tree rings are the plydrops of carbon cloth characteristic of eroding nozzle designs; not shown - jagged throat erosion post firing that is characteristic of eroding throat designs (credits: Northrop Grumman)

     Right on schedule, the motor roared to life as planned. As expected, the normal 94-second burn time was dragged out to an agonizingly long 110 seconds. As the motor's flames shrank and died down, everyone breathed a sigh of relief, and congratulations were offered to the triumphant team. The water quench arm swung into position behind the motor and drenched the inside of the spent case with water to prevent further smoldering or charring, effectively freezing the motor and its insulation in time at the point of burn out, ready to be dissected and analyzed to see how it performed. Immediately after the test, the Quick Look data even showed the motor had slightly overperformed the initial predictions. If you have to be wrong, you always want to be wrong by having too much performance.
     NGIS had just pulled off a minor miracle: they went from contract signing to a full-up firing of a production-representative motor in just three years. That's a good thing, since the first deliverable motors are due by this June. ULA already has big plans for these motors. The first ones will fly on STP-3 for the Air Force, which has already slipped fr om the summer to October at the earliest. The Air Force accepts more risk on the Space Test Program (STP) to try out new satellite and rocket technologies. As an example, Falcon Heavy's first DoD flight is also for STP. This first contract covers 60 total motors with an even 30/30 split between GEM 63s and the larger 63XLs, which ULA has the option to shift if need be. Beyond this first flight, ULA also intends to use the GEM 63 to launch NASA astronauts aboard Boeing's CST-100 Starliner. These GEM 63 requires no modification to launch astronauts, and ULA will be using uncrewed launches to build up sufficient reliability statistics to prove to themselves and NASA that the new boosters don't negatively impact crew safety.
     The biggest challenge of this effort has been to reduce cost, and the technical decisions reflect this. In aerospace, cost doesn't scale with size but rather with complexity, and decisions have been taken at every turn to reduce complexity and simplify the design. Instead of a high-priced and complex 3D carbon-carbon throat or a thrust vector control (TVC) system, the GEM 63 features a simple and low-cost carbon phenolic that does not move. This shows a preference for low cost and simplicity over strict performance.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/235023.jpg)
    Vulcan when it was originally announced (left) and the design as it exists today (right). (Credit: ULA)

     The Vulcan rocket that will ultimately use the GEM 63XLs has shown a similar preference for design simplicity. ULA got the 20 percent better thrust they were looking for, and by using larger GEM 63XL boosters it allowed ULA to resize their first stage and second stage propellant tanks. As long as you have the thrust to get the whole thing off the launch pad (thank you, GEM 63XL), the decision to increase the size of your gas tank has effectively zero technical risk. Rather than having to add new technology to achieve greater lift capability, they simply fill up the larger tanks. This is a wonderful trade, and one that any rocket scientist would make any day of the week. In addition, the future upgrades can still be implemented down the road, and with the larger gas tanks, it means those upgrades will be even more effective when they are finally introduced. All of this serves to reduce the risk to the current program and increases the likelihood that Vulcan will launch on time.
     The US military isn't the only one counting on the next generation of American launch vehicles. With NASA planning to return to the Moon, there will be a need to send space station modules, cargo, and even landers to lunar orbit and the Moon's surface itself. While the current crop of EELV-class vehicles has done wonders to build and maintain the International Space Station (ISS), to deliver similar payloads to the vicinity of the Moon larger rockets are needed. In addition to its own Space Launch System (SLS), NASA is already considering the next generation of EELV-class rockets including SpaceX's Falcon family, Blue Origin's New Glenn, ULA's Vulcan, and NGIS' OmegA. Beyond just the rockets to get there, each company is developing ideas for the space stations and Lunar landers for when they get there.
     Part 2 will look at another case in the history of launch vehicle development of switching boosters, and the importance of process improvement.
    [свернуть]

    Jeffrey L. Smith, P.E. is a propulsion engineer. He is excited that this generation of space development will be even better than the triumphs of the Space Race. The ideas expressed here (however misguided) are his own. He can be reached at JLSmith322@gmail.com (mailto:JLSmith322@gmail.com).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 02.04.2019 22:03:28
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/185703.jpg)Northrop Grumman‏Подлинная учетная запись @northropgrumman (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman) 1 апр. (https://twitter.com/northropgrumman/status/1112688577194926082)

    It's test week! This Thursday, April 4 we will perform the second static test fire of our #GEM63 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/GEM63?src=hash) motor at our Promontory, Utah facility. These motors support @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch)'s #AtlasV (https://twitter.com/hashtag/AtlasV?src=hash) rocket, giving the rocket an extra boost to deliver payloads to orbit. More: http://bit.ly/2Qc5hr6  (https://t.co/5sPkOsQfHj)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/160704.jpg)
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/160705.jpg)
    http://bit.ly/2Qc5hr6 --> http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabilities/RocketTest/Pages/default.aspx
    ЦитироватьSecond Ground Test of GEM 63 Rocket Motor

    Northrop Grumman will conduct its second qualification test of its 63-inch diameter Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM 63) in Promontory, Utah. The company developed this new side-mounted rocket motor to add power to the United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V launch vehicle. The maximum thrust of the GEM 63 is 373,000 pounds or roughly the equivalent of nine F-35 fighter jets.

    What: Ground test firing of GEM 63 rocket motor

    When: Thursday, April 4, 1:00 p.m. MDT

    Where: Northrop Grumman facility in Promontory, Utah
    19:00 UTC 04.04.2019
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 04.04.2019 22:40:07
    ЦитироватьNG Graphite Epoxy Motor 63 test (GEM 63 QM-2)

    SciNews (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjU6ZwoTQtKWfz1urL7XcbA)

    Опубликовано: 4 апр. 2019 г.

    Northrop Grumman Corporation conducted the second qualification test (QM-2) of its 63-inch diameter Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM 63) in Promontory, Utah, on 4 April 2019. The test was designed to validate the ballistic performance of the motor, such as pressure and thrust. The GEM 63 motor will be used as a direct replacement of the previous strap-on boosters on ULA's Atlas V rocket beginning in July 2019 with the Space Test Program (STP)-3 mission that will use five boosters.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GzsSV6BiJshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GzsSV6BiJs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GzsSV6BiJs) (2:54)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 05.04.2019 01:46:30
    https://news.northropgrumman.com/news/releases/northrop-grumman-successfully-completes-second-ground-test-of-new-rocket-motor-for-united-launch-alliance-atlas-v
    ЦитироватьNorthrop Grumman Successfully Completes Second Ground Test of New Rocket Motor for United Launch Alliance Atlas V

    Northrop Grumman Successfully Completes Second Ground Test of New Rocket Motor for United Launch Alliance Atlas V

    April 04, 2019

    Dulles, Va. – April 4, 2019 – Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE: NOC) conducted its second ground test of a 63-inch diameter Graphite Epoxy Motor (GEM 63) today in Promontory, Utah. The company developed this new side-mounted rocket motor to add power to the United Launch Alliance (ULA) Atlas V launch vehicle.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/190739.jpg)
    Northrop Grumman conducted the second ground test of its newly-developed GEM 63 rocket motor April 4, 2019, in Promontory, Utah. The GEM 63 will fly on United Launch Alliance's Atlas V launch vehicle starting next year.
    The maximum thrust of the GEM 63 is 373,000 pounds or roughly the equivalent of five B-2 Spirit bombers. Up to five GEM 63 motors can support a single Atlas V launch.

    "The Northrop Grumman team developed the GEM 63 motor in just three years, an impressive accomplishment for such a complex drop-in solution to an existing launch vehicle," said Charlie Precourt, vice president, propulsion systems, Northrop Grumman.

    The GEM 63 team developed the motor under a cooperative development program with ULA. Northrop Grumman has been supplying solid propulsion motors for a variety of launch vehicles since 1964 and is ULA's largest legacy supplier of solid propulsion. Northrop Grumman's expertise in solid rocket boosters combined with ULA's history of reliability results in a strong partnership that guarantees assured access to space for national security.

    "This test is an important step in the development of these new boosters for the Atlas V launch vehicle and we thank Northrop Grumman for the continued partnership and outstanding teamwork," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "By flying key hardware first on our Atlas V rocket prior to flying it on our Vulcan Centaur rocket, it provides increased confidence for the first flight of our new rocket in 2021."

    The first ground test, conducted in September 2018, qualified the motor for use as a strap-on booster for the Atlas V. Today's test satisfies additional requirements for certification by the U.S. Air Force. The first launch using GEM 63 motors will take place in 2020.

    In addition to the GEM 63 motor, Northrop Grumman is also developing a GEM 63XL motor for ULA's Vulcan Centaur rocket. Both versions of the GEM 63 family use common materials and processes to maintain a high-reliability, low-cost product. The first GEM 63XL case, which is the longest non-segmented, monolithic case ever manufactured, has already been wound at a new facility in Clearfield, Utah, and is currently in the structural qualification process.

    Northrop Grumman is a leading global security company providing innovative systems, products and solutions in autonomous systems, cyber, C4ISR, space, strike, and logistics and modernization to customers worldwide. Please visit news.northropgrumman.com and follow us on Twitter, @NGCNews, for more information.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 09.04.2019 01:50:28
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/184882.jpg)Emre Kelly‏Подлинная учетная запись @EmreKelly (https://twitter.com/EmreKelly) 1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/EmreKelly/status/1115369502827405313)

    .@ToryBruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) on updates to LC-41 that are underway

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/160765.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 09.04.2019 02:04:33
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/184882.jpg)Emre Kelly‏Подлинная учетная запись @EmreKelly (https://twitter.com/EmreKelly) 1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/EmreKelly/status/1115368385502572544)

    ULA CEO @ToryBruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno): Except for propellant tanks, all components of Vulcan Centaur will have already flown by 2021 launch. Software will be 80% common with existing rockets.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/160764.jpg)


    1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/EmreKelly/status/1115368772666191873)

    Some charts and graphs for you:

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/160763.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 09.04.2019 08:07:21
    https://ria.ru/20190409/1552498569.html
    ЦитироватьГлава американского консорциума ULA отметил высокое качество РД-180
    КОЛОРАДО СПРИНГС, 8 апр – РИА Новости. Качество российских ракетных двигателей РД-180 находится на высоком уровне и поставки идут с опережением потребности в них, сообщил во вторник РИА Новости глава американского консорциума United Launch Alliance (ULA) Тори Бруно.
    "Они (российский поставщик "Энергомаш" - ред.) очень хорошо работают и очень отзывчивы. Качество поддерживается на высоком уровне, и у нас не было никаких вопросов с поставками от них. Они поставляют раньше наших потребностей и еще должны мне несколько (двигателей – ред.)", - сказал он на полях 35-го симпозиума по космосу в Колорадо Спрингс.
    По словам Бруно, это происходит из-за того, что "Энергомаш" поставляет двигатели по мере их готовности. Он добавил, что сейчас запас российских двигателей на складах ULA покрывает их потребности примерно на два года вперед.
    При этом он затруднился ответить на вопрос, будет ли консорциум закупать РД-180 после 2022 года, когда конгресс распорядился прекратить эти закупки.
    "Я еще не знаю... Нам можно (закупать – ред.) некоторое количество для обеспечения национальной безопасности. Это было 18 штук. В то же время нам дан срок, что любые миссии должны быть заказаны властями до 2022 года, а они могут полететь когда угодно... И нет ограничений на использование РД-180 для коммерческих задач или гражданских задач в космосе", - сказал Бруно.
    "ранее"
    ULA - совместное предприятие Boeing и Lockheed Martin, использующее РД-180 для запуска американских спутников.
    В начале 1996 года двигатель РД-180 производства "Энергомаша" был выбран для американской ракеты-носителя Atlas. В ноябре 1996 года было проведено первое огневое испытание двигателя-прототипа, а в апреле 1997 года - огневое испытание штатного двигателя. В 1997–1998 годах была успешно проведена серия огневых испытаний двигателя в составе первой ступени ракеты-носителя в США.
    Весной 1999 года была завершена сертификация РД-180 для использования в составе ракеты-носителя Atlas-3, первый ее запуск состоялся в мае 2000 года. Летом 2001 года была завершена сертификация РД-180 для использования в составе ракеты-носителя Atlas-5, первый полет состоялся в августе 2002 года.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 09.04.2019 21:33:34
    ЦитироватьDeveloping Vulcan Centaur

    United Launch Alliance (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnrGPRKAg1PgvuSHrRIl3jg)

    Опубликовано: 9 апр. 2019 г.

    An upd ate on the development of the Vulcan Centaur rocket, which is se t to launch in 2021. Recorded April 8, 2019, at the Space Symposium in Colorado Springs, Colorado.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W31tc8_ZKGUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W31tc8_ZKGU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W31tc8_ZKGU) (41:28)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 09.04.2019 23:39:43
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/94735)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 14.05.2019 00:58:26
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/05/13/nasa-ula-find-launch-opportunity-for-inflatable-heat-shield-demonstrator/
    ЦитироватьNASA, ULA find launch opportunity for inflatable heat shield demonstrator
    May 13, 2019 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/05/) | Stephen Clark (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/145544.jpg)
    Artist's illustration of the the Low Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator, or LOFTID, spacecraft. Credit: NASA

    A flight demonstration of an inflatable heat shield that could be used to retrieve reusable engines from United Launch Alliance's next-generation Vulcan rocket, and for the delivery of heavier cargo to the surface of Mars, is planned for launch in late 2021 or early 2022 as a piggyback payload on an Atlas 5 rocket with a NOAA weather satellite.

    The inflatable re-entry decelerator will launch as a joint project between NASA and ULA, which foresee different uses for the technology.

    ULA aims to recover engines from the company's new Vulcan rocket, set to debut in 2021, using an inflatable heat shield and a parafoil. A helicopter equipped with a boom will snag the parafoil in a mid-air recovery, preventing contamination from salt water if the engines splashed down in the ocean.

    The inflatable heat shield is much lighter than a rigid heat shield, such as thermal protection systems used on crew capsules, and take up less volume inside a rocket's payload fairing. The technology will allow future NASA missions to deliver more massive rovers, landers, and eventually human-rated habitats to the Martian surface.

    The heaviest spacecraft ever landed on Mars using current technology was the Curiosity rover, which weighed less than a ton at touchdown in 2012.

    Inflatable heat shield technology could also protect materials manufactured in space during the return trip to Earth.

    "It has the potential for returning substantial mass back to Earth," said Jim Reuter, associate administrator of NASA's space technology mission directorate, during an April 30 meeting of the NASA Advisory Council's technology, innovation and engineering committee.

    The Low Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator will test a nearly 20-foot-diameter (6-meter) heat shield, the largest blunt body atmospheric entry vehicle ever flown in space.

    NASA and ULA have identified room for the re-entry testbed, known by the acronym LOFTID, as a secondary payload on an Atlas 5 launch in late 2021 or early 2022 from Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, with NOAA's Joint Polar Satellite System-2, or JPSS 2, weather observatory heading for polar orbit, according to Reuter.

    Officials said NOAA recently agreed to launch the LOFTID experiment with the JPSS 2 satellite, after a search for excess capacity on Atlas 5 missions launching from Vandenberg over the next few years.

    Therese Griebel, deputy associate administrator for programs in NASA's technology division, said a recent review with JPSS 2 program managers concluded the addition of the LOFTID experiment on the launch would add no significant risk to the mission.

    "It looks like we've gotten everybody on-board (with launching LOFTID with JPSS)," Reuter said.
    Спойлер
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/145555.jpg)
    ULA's concept for reusing booster engines from the company's Vulcan rocket involves retrieving the engines in mid-air with a helicopter. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    The JPSS 2 satellite has a targeted launch readiness date in the first quarter of fiscal year 2022, or late in the calendar year 2021, according to John Leslie, a NOAA spokesperson.

    NASA, which provides launch and spacecraft development support to NOAA's weather satellites, sel ected ULA's Atlas 5 rocket in 2017 to carry the JPSS 2 spacecraft into orbit. The lightest version of the Atlas 5 rocket, a variant known as the Atlas 5-401 without any solid rocket boosters, will launch the JPSS 2 satellite.

    But JPSS 2 fills less than half of the Atlas 5-401's capacity to the weather satellite's 512-mile-high (824-kilometer) orbit, leaving ample room for secondary payloads.

    Last year, NOAA released a request for information soliciting ideas for small commercial Earth observation satellites that could ride piggyback on the JPSS 2 launch. With agreement from NASA, NOAA and ULA, part of the excess capacity on the Atlas 5 rocket will be filled with the LOFTID experiment.

    The LOFTID re-entry vehicle will weigh around 2,700 pounds (1,224 kilograms).

    Under the terms of a no-funds-exchanged Space Act Agreement, NASA will provide the re-entry vehicle and its inflatable aeroshell. ULA will supply the high-pressure tanks to inflate the heat shield in space and the Atlas 5 launch services at no cost to NASA.

    NASA's Langley Research Center in Virginia heads the agency's work on the LOFTID experiment.

    NASA awarded ULA a separate $1.9 million contract last year to demonstrate mid-air retrieval of the LOFTID entry vehicle, using an ocean-going ship capable of transporting a helicopter to the recovery zone.

    The LOFTID experiment will test a flexible thermal protection system using braided synthetic fibers that are 15 times stronger than steel, according to a NASA fact sheet. Unlike rigid heat shields, the material allows the structure to be folded and packed in a tighter volume that can fit inside the payload envelope of existing rockets.

    During the LOFTID demonstration, the heat shield will inflate after the Atlas 5 rocket releases the JPSS 2 spacecraft in orbit. After inflation, the Atlas 5's Centaur upper stage will execute a deorbit burn on a trajectory heading back into the atmosphere, then deploy the LOFTID vehicle for re-entry.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/144956.jpg)
    Artist's concept of United Launch Alliance's Vulcan rocket. Credit: ULA

    ULA's interest in inflatable heat shield technology stems from the company's plan to recover first stage engines from the next-generation Vulcan rocket for refurbishment and reuse.

    The Vulcan rocket is scheduled for its inaugural launch from Cape Canaveral in 2021. Two BE-4 main engines, built by Blue Origin, will power the Vulcan's first stage.

    Unlike SpaceX, which lands entire Falcon 9 first stage boosters to be reused, ULA plans to jettison the BE-4 engine pod fr om the base of the Vulcan first stage. The engines will be shielded by an inflatable decelerator, similar to the system to be demonstrated by the LOFTID experiment, then unfurl a steerable parafoil for a helicopter to capture in mid-air.

    The BE-4 engines, which burn methane and liquid oxygen, are designed to be reusable. Blue Origin's own New Glenn rocket, also set for a debut in 2021, will also use BE-4 engines on its first stage. Like SpaceX, Blue Origin intends to land the New Glenn's first stage intact for refurbishment and reuse.

    ULA will discard the BE-4 engines on the initial flights of the Vulcan rocket. The company plans to begin retrieving the engines around 2024.
    [свернуть]
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 15.06.2019 19:57:32
    ЦитироватьNASA Tests Cutting-Edge Heat Shield Technology

    NASA Langley Research Center (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSv7zzf9wjmqMnk6zzN5gYQ)

    Опубликовано: 6 июн. 2019 г.

    Low-Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator, or LOFTID, is the next flight mission of the HIAD (inflatable heat shields) technology. HIAD is on the cutting-edge cusp of heat shields and NASA Langley researchers recently tested the LOFTID HIAD by doing a blow down test to measure gas intake.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14TCaQyQYtQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14TCaQyQYtQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14TCaQyQYtQ) (1:50)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 15.06.2019 20:02:53
    https://www.nasa.gov/feature/langley/nasa-inflatable-heat-shield-technology-performs-under-pressure
    ЦитироватьJune 13, 2019

    NASA Inflatable Heat Shield Technology Performs Under Pressure

    Testing is well underway as NASA's LOFTID (https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/tdm/loftid/index.html) – short for Low-Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator – prepares to catch a ride on an Atlas V rocket launch in 2022.

    LOFTID is a cross-cutting technology designed to help deliver heavy cargos to any planet with an atmosphere.

    In a few years, NASA and United Launch Alliance (ULA) will launch the six-meter inflatable heat shield from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California to low-Earth orbit as a secondary payload along with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Joint Polar Satellite System-2 weather observatory heading for polar orbit.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/208509.jpg) (https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/loftid-1.jpg)

    LOFTID pack and deployment testing started with a load test to verify that the heat shield will perform as expected in flight under real-life conditions.
    Credits: NASA

    The technology, designed to enable more robust missions to destinations like Mars, Venus, and Titan could also potentially be used to return payloads to Earth and recover reusable engines from ULA's next-generation Vulcan rocket.

    Tests are ongoing as NASA prepares the inflatable heat shield for launch. Pack and deployment testing with Airborne Systems in Santa Ana, California, is underway. The pack and deployment testing started with a load test to verify that the heat shield will perform as expected in flight under real-life conditions. After that, LOFTID was tightly packed. It will soon undergo deployment testing followed by a second load test for another data point.
    Спойлер
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=14TCaQyQYtQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=14TCaQyQYtQ)
    Low-Earth Orbit Flight Test of an Inflatable Decelerator, or LOFTID, is the next flight mission of the HIAD (inflatable heat shields) technology. HIAD is on the cutting-edge cusp of heat shields and NASA Langley researchers recently tested the LOFTID HIAD by doing a blow down test to measure gas intake.
    Credits: NASA
    [свернуть]
    At NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia the team is performing a qualification tank blow down test to measure gas temperatures during venting of the nitrogen gas tanks that will be used during LOFTID's first flight.

    The LOFTID project is a part of the Technology Demonstration Missions (https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/tdm/main/index.html) program funded by NASA's Space Technology Mission Directorate (https://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/home/index.html). The project is managed by NASA's Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia.

    Last Updated: June 13, 2019
    Editor: Kristyn Damadeo
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 20.08.2019 23:07:21
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/67521.jpg) Stephen Clark‏ @StephenClark1 (https://twitter.com/StephenClark1) 25 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/1163898216452112384)
    1/2 USAF, ULA and Lockheed Martin officials just finished a press call previewing Thursday's Delta 4 launch, the final flight of a Delta 4-Medium. Five more Delta 4-Heavy missions still in ULA's backlog through late 2023.


    23 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/StephenClark1/status/1163898898253041664)
    2/2 After Thursday's Delta 4-Medium swan song, ULA plans two Delta 4-Heavy missions next year, both for the NRO. First up is NROL-44 from Cape Canaveral in June 2020, followed by NROL-82 from Vandenberg AFB in September 2020.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 01.10.2019 01:22:06
    Цитировать(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1090970585381986304/z1PaqCbe_bigger.jpg) Sandra Erwin‏ @Sandra_I_Erwin (https://twitter.com/Sandra_I_Erwin) 35 мин. назад (https://twitter.com/Sandra_I_Erwin/status/1178787859848933376)

    Breaking news: Air Force awards @ulalaunch (https://twitter.com/ulalaunch) $1.18 billion contract to complete five Delta 4 Heavy @NatReconOfc (https://twitter.com/NatReconOfc)  missions https://spacenews.com/air-force-awards-ula-1-18-billion-contract-to-complete-five-delta-4-heavy-nro-missions/ ... (https://t.co/xu75oIJN1b)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/177249.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 30.09.2019 22:06:02
    Цитироватьtnt22 написал:
     Air Force awards  @ulalaunch  $1.18 billion contract to complete five Delta 4 Heavy  @NatReconOfc   missions
    Круто - до 236 лямов за пуск подешевели.
    Но все равно непонятно - почему Фэлкон Хэви прокинули?
    Нет блока довыведения на спецорбиты?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: ronatu от 01.10.2019 10:27:06
    Цитироватьazvoz написал:
     
    Цитироватьtnt22 (//forum/user/18282/) написал:
     Air Force awards  @ulalaunch  $1.18 billion contract to complete five Delta 4 Heavy  @NatReconOfc   missions
    Круто - до 236 лямов за пуск подешевели.
    Но все равно непонятно - почему Фэлкон Хэви прокинули?
    Нет блока довыведения на спецорбиты?


    Delta IV M+ (5,2) (2014)          ~$225M    
    Delta IV Medium+ (5,4) (2014)~$225M    
    Delta IV Heavy (2015)               $389M     
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 01.10.2019 01:13:14
    Цитироватьronatu написал:
     
    Цитироватьazvoz (//forum/user/57811/) написал:
     
    Цитироватьtnt22 (//forum/user/18282/)  написал:
     Air Force awards  @ulalaunch  $1.18 billion contract to complete five Delta 4 Heavy  @NatReconOfc   missions
    Круто - до 236 лямов за пуск подешевели.
    Но все равно непонятно - почему Фэлкон Хэви прокинули?
    Нет блока довыведения на спецорбиты?


    Delta IV M+ (5,2) (2014)          ~$225M    
    Delta IV Medium+ (5,4) (2014)~$225M    
    Delta IV Heavy (2015)               $389M      
    нормально так с 389 лямов до 236 подешевела Delta 4 Heavy
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 01.10.2019 07:17:34
    Цитироватьazvoz написал:
     нормально так с 389 лямов до 236 подешевела Delta 4 Heavy

    https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.msg1999818#msg1999818
    ЦитироватьTargeteer написал:

    United Launch Services (ULS), Centennial, Colorado, has been awarded a $1,175,842,965 firm-fixed-price modification (P00001) to previously awarded contract FA8811-19-C-0002 for National Security Space Launch (NSSL) Delta IV Heavy launch services. This contract modification is for Launch Operations Support (LOPS) services for five NSSL National Reconnaissance Office missions, all of which require ULS's Delta IV Heavy launch vehicle. Work will be performed at Centennial, Colorado; Pueblo, Colorado; Decatur, Alabama; and Harlingen, Texas, with launch facilities at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida; and Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, and is expected to be completed by Feb. 29, 2024. The total contract value is increased from $467,537,345 to $1,643,380,310 to include five annual options. Fiscal 2019 procurement funds are being obligated at the time of award. The Space and Missile Systems Center, Los Angeles Air Force Base, California, is the contracting activity.

    $1,643,380,310 / 5 = $328,676,062
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 02.10.2019 08:42:47
    Цитировать(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1090970585381986304/z1PaqCbe_bigger.jpg) Sandra Erwin‏ @Sandra_I_Erwin (https://twitter.com/Sandra_I_Erwin) 7 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/Sandra_I_Erwin/status/1179156655809974272)

    Air Force awards $98.5 million 'completion' contract to ULA for launch services for 3 Atlas launches. This completes the EELV Phase 1 Block Buy awards. https://spacenews.com/air-force-awards-98-5-million-completion-contract-to-ula-for-launch-services-for-three-atlas-5-missions/ ... (https://t.co/gjT2vxtNOX)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/176947.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 02.10.2019 10:51:04
    Цитироватьнормально так с 389 лямов до 236 подешевела Delta 4 Heavy

    ЦитироватьSalo написал:
    $1,643,380,310 / 5 = $328,676,062
    не дождетесь.

    https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1178793859591094273?s=20 (https://twitter.com/nextspaceflight/status/1178793859591094273?s=20)

    https://t.co/hWux8Jz75l?amp=1 (https://t.co/hWux8Jz75l?amp=1)

    Цитировать$2.3 billion in total for the five remaining Delta IV Heavy launches when included with the other contract according to 
    @SpaceNews_Inc . That comes out to $460 million per launch.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 02.10.2019 09:09:42
    как всё печально
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 02.10.2019 13:34:27
    Цитироватьazvoz написал:
    как всё печально

    Это смотря для кого. Отдельный привет хочется передать Тори Бруно.


    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/963109303291854848?s=20 (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/963109303291854848?s=20)

    ЦитироватьElon Musk (https://twitter.com/elonmusk)  Feb 12, 2018 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/963076231921938432)

    The performance numbers in this database are not accurate. In process of being fixed. Even if they were, a fully expendable Falcon Heavy, which far exceeds the performance of a Delta IV Heavy, is $150M, compared to over $400M for Delta IV Heavy.


    ЦитироватьTory Bruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno)
    Replying to @elonmusk (https://twitter.com/elonmusk) @doug_ellison (https://twitter.com/doug_ellison) and @dsfpspacefl1ght (https://twitter.com/dsfpspacefl1ght)

    Hey @elonmusk (https://twitter.com/elonmusk)
     , congrats again your heavy launch. Clarification:  Delta IV Heavy goes for about $350M. That's current and future, after the retirement of both Delta IV Medium and Delta II. She also brings unique capabilities, At least until we bring Vulcan on line.

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 21.10.2019 09:25:19
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/10/20/solid-rocket-motor-test-fired-for-atlas-5-debut-next-year/ (https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/10/20/solid-rocket-motor-test-fired-for-atlas-5-debut-next-year/)
    ЦитироватьSolid rocket motor test-fired for Atlas 5 debut next year
    October 20, 2019 (https://spaceflightnow.com/2019/10/) | Stephen Clark (https://spaceflightnow.com/author/stephen-clark/)

    A new solid rocket motor built by Northrop Grumman has aced its final test-firing before a scheduled debut on a United Launch Alliance Atlas 5 rocket flight next year.

    Northrop Grumman's GEM 63 solid rocket motor will replace the Aerojet Rocketdyne AJ-60A solid-fueled booster that has flown on Atlas 5 rockets since 2003.

    Billed as a "direct replacement" for the AJ-60A, Northrop Grumman's GEM 63 booster produces roughly the same thrust and has approximately the same dimensions as the Atlas 5's incumbent solid-fueled boosters.

    Northrop Grumman performed the third in a series of GEM 63 test-firings Oct. 10 at the company's Promontory, Utah, site before the new solid rocket motor's first launch on an Atlas 5 rocket from Cape Canaveral late next year.

    Kendra Kastelan, a Northrop Grumman spokesperson, said the company has no further test-firings planned for the GEM 63 motor before its first launch.

    A spokesperson with the U.S. Air Force's Space and Missile Systems Center, which procures launch services for U.S. military and intelligence-gathering satellites, said the the first use of the GEM 63 solid rocket booster on an Atlas 5 mission is scheduled for September 2020.

    The mission, codenamed NROL-101, will launch a classified payload for the National Reconnaissance Office, which owns the government's top secret spy satellites, the Air Force spokesperson confirmed to Spaceflight Now. Five GEM 63 boosters will help the Atlas 5's main engine propel the NROL-101 payload into space, an Atlas 5 configuration with a 5-meter (17-foot) fairing known as the Atlas 5-551.

    The GEM 63 motor is an enlarged version of the GEM 60 booster built by Northrop Grumman for ULA's Delta 4 rocket family. The last GEM 60 motor flew on a Delta 4 launch in August. ULA's five remaining Delta 4 missions will launch in the rocket's heavy-lift configuration with three liquid-fueled cores, and no strap-on solid rocket boosters.

    Northrop Grumman, through its predecessors ATK and Orbital ATK, also supplied smaller boosters — called Graphite Epoxy Motors — for the now-retired Delta 2 and Delta 3 rocket families.

    The new motor is designated the GEM 63 because of its 63-inch (1.6-meter) diameter. It measures 66 feet (20 meters) long and will generate up to 373,800 pounds of thrust during launch, consuming some 97,500 pounds (44.2 metric tons) of pre-packed solid propellant during a burn lasting around 100 seconds, before the booster is jettisoned.

    Like the AJ-60A motor, the GEM 63 will have fixed nozzles and ogive nose cone, providing the proper aerodynamic shape to ensure the booster cleanly falls away from the Atlas 5 after burnout.

    ULA's ground processing team rehearsed transportation, handling and mating procedures using an inert GEM 63 motor at the Atlas 5 launch pad in May. The team practiced installing the inert motor on an Atlas 5 first stage inside the Vertical Integration Facility at Cape Canaveral's Complex 41 launch pad to verify clearances and techniques before working with a real GEM 63 motor next year.

    Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO, wrote on Twitter that all Atlas 5 missions will eventually convert over to the new GEM 63 motor. ULA has not said when the company's inventory of AJ-60A boosters will run out, or identified the final launch with Aerojet Rocketdyne-built solid rocket motors.

    Crewed launches with Boeing's CST-100 Starliner spacecraft will also eventually switch over to the GEM 63 booster, Bruno tweeted in response to a question from Spaceflight Now.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/145773.jpg)
    United Launch Alliance ground teams rehearsed handling and lifting an inert GEM 63 motor earlier this year at the Atlas 5 launch pad at Cape Canaveral. Credit: United Launch Alliance

    Aerojet Rocketdyne's AJ-60A motor has a flawless record since its first use on the Atlas 5's third launch in July 2003, with 115 of the boosters flown to date.

    ULA announced in 2015 the selection of Orbital ATK — now part of Northrop Grumman — to provide solid rocket boosters for future Atlas 5 launches, and for the next-generation Vulcan Centaur rocket. At the time, ULA said the selection of the GEM 63 rocket motor would "significantly lower the price to ULA and to the U.S. government."

    A lengthened version of the GEM 63 known as the GEM 63XL will fly on ULA's new Vulcan Centaur rocket, which is scheduled for an inaugural launch in 2021. The Atlas 5 rocket can fly with any number of solid rocket boosters from zero to five, while the Vulcan Centaur will launch in standardized configurations with two or six strap-on motors alongside the rocket's two Blue Origin BE-4 main engines.

    Northrop Grumman's planned OmegA launcher, which is competing with ULA's Vulcan Centaur for Air Force contracts, is designed to fly with up to six GEM 63XLT strap-on boosters, another variant of the new GEM 63 solid rocket motor.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 21.10.2019 12:24:41
    Цитироватьtnt22 написал:
    Billed as a "direct replacement" for the AJ-60A, Northrop Grumman's GEM 63 booster produces roughly the same thrust and has approximately the same dimensions as the Atlas 5's incumbent solid-fueled boosters.
    А зачем меняют то шило на мыло?  :oops: 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 21.10.2019 13:24:39
    ЦитироватьСтарый написал:
     
    Цитироватьtnt22 (//forum/user/18282/) написал:
    Billed as a "direct replacement" for the AJ-60A, Northrop Grumman's GEM 63 booster produces roughly the same thrust and has approximately the same dimensions as the Atlas 5's incumbent solid-fueled boosters.
    А зачем меняют то шило на мыло?    
    Вроде как новые дешевле и кроме того НГ будет также поставлять ТТУ для Вулкана.

    https://spacenews.com/ula-picks-orbital-atk-as-exclusive-supplier-of-solid-motors/ (https://spacenews.com/ula-picks-orbital-atk-as-exclusive-supplier-of-solid-motors/)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 21.10.2019 16:22:53
    ЦитироватьApollo13 написал:
     Вроде как новые дешевле
    За счёт удешевления разработка окупится? 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 21.10.2019 17:37:13
    ЦитироватьСтарый написал:
     
    ЦитироватьApollo13 (//forum/user/16811/) написал:
     Вроде как новые дешевле
    За счёт удешевления разработка окупится?  
    Это же не ULA проблемы а НГ. Видимо, тогда еще в Орбитал АТК, решили, что окупится.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 21.10.2019 18:37:58
    ЦитироватьApollo13 написал:
    The performance numbers in this database are not accurate. In process of being fixed. Even if they were, a fully expendable Falcon Heavy, which far exceeds the performance of a Delta IV Heavy, is $150M, compared to over $400M for Delta IV Heavy.
    Насколько помню эти же бустеры унифицированы также с OmegA.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 25.10.2019 00:18:27
    https://spacenews.com/for-air-force-launch-competition-ula-will-offer-vulcan-and-atlas-but-not-delta... (https://spacenews.com/for-air-force-launch-competition-ula-will-offer-vulcan-and-atlas-but-not-delta/)
    ЦитироватьFor Air Force launch competition, ULA will offer Vulcan and Atlas, but not Delta
    by Sandra Erwin (https://spacenews.com/author/sandra-erwin/) — October 23, 2019  
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/191629.jpg)A  ULA Delta 4 rocket carrying the GPS 3 SV-2 mission for the U.S. Air  Force lifts off from Space Launch Complex-37 Aug. 22, 2019. Credit: ULA   Bruno said ULA is confident that Vulcan will be ready to fly Category C payloads by 2023.
     WASHINGTON — United Launch Alliance CEO Tory Bruno said the  development of the company's new Vulcan Centaur rocket is progressing as  planned and the vehicle has been offered to the U.S. Air Force in ULA's  proposal for the National Security Space Launch Phase 2 Launch Service  Procurement.


    The Air Force allowed bidders to pitch a main vehicle and also a  backup rocket. During a meeting with reporters Oct. 23, Bruno said ULA  is offering Vulcan as the primary vehicle and Atlas 5 as a secondary  rocket for the so-called Category A/B missions, which are the majority  of national security satellite launches. For the Category C missions  that require a capability to launch very large satellites for the  intelligence community, ULA will only offer Vulcan, not the Delta 4  Heavy which is today the only vehicle capable of performing these  demanding missions.

     (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/191586.jpg)
    Tory Bruno, CEO of United Launch Alliance. Credit: Keith Johnson Bruno said ULA is confident that Vulcan will be ready to fly Category  C payloads by 2023, approximately one year before the last scheduled  flight of the Delta 4 Heavy. The Air Force on Sept. 30 awarded ULA a five-year $1.18 billion contract (https://spacenews.com/air-force-awards-ula-1-18-billion-contract-to-complete-five-delta-4-heavy-nro-missions/) to complete the last planned five Delta 4 Heavy National Reconnaissance Office missions from 2020 through 2024.


    Four competitors — ULA, SpaceX, Blue Origin and Northrop Grumman —  submitted proposals in August. The Air Force will sel ect two providers  in 2020 to split 60/40 all national security missions from 2022 to 2026.  To win these contracts, all have to demonstrate that they can meet the requirements for all national security missions (https://spacenews.com/blue-origin-intensifies-call-for-change-in-air-force-launch-procurement-strategy/)  projected for those five years. By the time the Delta 4 Heavy is taken  out of service, the Air Force said both winners of Phase 2 will have to  be able to compete for Category C missions.


    "Delta 4 will not be part of Phase 2," said Bruno. ULA expects Vulcan  to be certified for Categories A/B missions in 2021 after the vehicle  completes two successful flights. The first flight will be an Astrobotic mission (https://www.ulalaunch.com/about/news/2019/08/19/astrobotic-selects-united-launch-alliance-vulcan-centaur-rocket-to-launch-its-first-mission-to-the-moon) to the moon and the second a Sierra Nevada Dream Chaser (https://spacenews.com/sierra-nevada-corp-selects-ula-vulcan-for-dream-chaser-missions/) resupply flight to the International Space Station.


    After the first two Vulcan flights are accomplished, ULA will upgrade  the Vulcan Centaur upper stage to get the extra performance it will  need for the heavy missions. "Then we'll be able to replace Delta 4,"  said Bruno.


    In the final solicitation for the Phase 2 procurement, the Air Force  included a provision that allowed bidders to offer a secondary vehicle.  ULA's competitors argued this language unfairly favored ULA because it  gives the company a safety net in case Vulcan development runs behind.


    Bruno confirmed that ULA is offering Atlas 5 as a secondary vehicle  and noted that the Air Force does not give bidders extra credit in the  evaluation for having a backup vehicle. The procurement is fixed price  so ULA would have to charge the same for Vulcan or Atlas 5 services.  "You have to lock in pricing for whatever they would buy from you," said  Bruno.


    Like the Delta 4, the Atlas 5 is projected to fly until 2024, Bruno  said. But by law the Air Force only is allowed to buy Atlas 5 launches  through 2022. Congress passed legislation in 2015 that requires DoD to  end its reliance on Russian rocket engines. The Atlas 5 main engine is  the Russian RD-180.


    ULA's Delta 4 Heavy has had a monopoly on Category C missions because  no other vehicle on the market could meet those demands. SpaceX's  Falcon Heavy was only certified recently (https://spacenews.com/air-force-certified-falcon-heavy-for-national-security-launch-but-more-work-needed-to-meet-required-orbits/) and could not compete for most of the NRO missions the Air Force awarded to Delta 4.


    SpaceX President and COO Gwynne Shotwell said Oct. 22 that the  company will be ready to compete for Category C missions if it wins one  of the two slots in Phase 2.


    The Falcon Heavy will be able to do these missions, she said. "We  don't need more performance, we don't need heavier rockets, we don't  need more margin. The only thing that stands between us and our ability  to fly those is an extended fairing, which is not hard," Shotwell said.  The company is looking to either buy a fairing fr om an outside vendor or  develop its own. "We still have to see what the right approach is," she  said.


    Another Air Force requirement that SpaceX has not yet met is to have a  facility at its launch site at Cape Canaveral for vertical integration  of payloads. Shotwell said that is in the works. "We haven't  demonstrated vertical integration which we can do," Shotwell said. "And  we haven't qualified a long fairing. That's it."

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 25.10.2019 02:03:05
    ЦитироватьMast Mate to Vulcan Centaur Mobile Launch Platform (MLP)

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/220483.jpg) (https://www.youtube.com/user/UnitedLaunchAlliance) United Launch Alliance (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCnrGPRKAg1PgvuSHrRIl3jg)

    24 окт. 2019 г.

    A timelapse of the mast mate to the Vulcan Centaur Mobile Launch Platform (MLP). This MLP was designed and built to transport the Vulcan Centaur between the Spaceflight Processing Operations Center (SPOC), the Vertical Integration Facility (VIF) and to the launch pad at SLC-41.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q20wJkPAgUQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q20wJkPAgUQ)https://www.youtube.com/embed/q20wJkPAgUQ (https://www.youtube.com/embed/q20wJkPAgUQ) (1:01)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 25.10.2019 14:52:37
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg) Tory Bruno‏ @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) 13 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1187501514803122177)

    Vulcan's new Mobile Launch Platform. That's How we roll...

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/177610.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: tnt22 от 27.10.2019 20:56:04
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29931.jpg) Tory Bruno‏ @torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno) 1 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1188497396759695366)

    Yup.  Big year.  We have 30 cores in the factory right now.  A record for us.  Decatur is hopping!
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/184992.jpg) Future Spaces‏ @SpacesFuture (https://twitter.com/SpacesFuture) 3 ч. назад (https://twitter.com/SpacesFuture/status/1188476148994306055)

    Expecting a Dozen or More launches from ULA next year, Ofcourse the Mighty Atlas shall lift Starliners CFT and CTS-1 to the ISS,  guide Mars 2020 to land on Jezero Crater and bring SolO to the Heliosphere at 0.28AU Perihelion! Go Atlas! Go Centaur!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 14.01.2020 15:29:56
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1217053638046224384?s=20 (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1217053638046224384?s=20)
    Цитировать@torybruno (https://twitter.com/torybruno), which is your most favorite rocket and why? :)
    ЦитироватьI love all my children
    ЦитироватьCan you name them all?
    ЦитироватьMaybe: Atlas V, Delta II, Delta IV (Med &. Hey), Vulcan, LLV, Veturestar, THAAD, Polaris, Poseidon, Trident I & II, LV1, LV2, ERIS, ERINT, SM32B, MMCS, LETBI & II, HTV I & II, Mk4, Mk5, M21, M12, Mk12A, MRT, MKV, MMKV, FMA I, II, III, IV, IV. Nope, I can't.  Not enough characters

    Хвастунишка :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 14.01.2020 15:55:36
    https://spacenews.com/independent-study-of-launch-market-says-u-s-air-force-should-support-three-domestic-providers/
    И перевод:
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/823009
    https://vk.com/@spaceactivityinfographics-rand-provel-nezavisimoe-issledovanie-puskovogo-rynka-vvs-ssh
    ЦитироватьRAND: американские "космические частники" без государственной поддержки не выживут.
    RAND провел независимое исследование пускового рынка — ВВС США должны поддержать трех отечественных поставщиков. С Spacenews.

    Сандра Эрвин, 12 января 2020 г.

    Ракета-носитель ULA Delta 4 со спутником ВВС WGS-10 взлетает с космического стартового комплекса-37 15 марта 2019 года. Предоставлено: ULA

    Ракета-носитель ULA Delta 4 со спутником ВВС WGS-10 взлетает с космического стартового комплекса-37 15 марта 2019 года. Предоставлено: ULA

        В ответ на озабоченность по поводу стратегии закупок запусков ВВС попросили RAND провести анализ рынка запуска тяжелых спутников.

    ВАШИНГТОН. Независимое исследование рынка космических запусков, проведенное по заказу военно-воздушных сил США, утверждает, что в краткосрочной перспективе необходимо поддерживать трех провайдеров, чтобы обеспечить гарантированный доступ в космос в течение следующего десятилетия.

    В исследовании, подготовленном RAND Corp., рассматривалось влияние решений о приобретении космических запусков ВВС США на пусковом рынке тяжелых спутников. Исследование не рекомендует ВВС изменить свое решение о присуждении контрактов на запуск по программе национальной безопасности только двум поставщикам в конце этого года. Но утверждает, что ВВС должны найти способ сохранить третьего поставщика пусковых услуг в качестве запасного варианта.

        RAND - это научно-исследовательский центр, финансируемый из федерального бюджета. Результаты исследования были доведены до сведения руководителей ВВС в июле, но отчет не был опубликован. Копия была получена SpaceNews.

    В исследовании говорится, что наличие жизнеспособного третьего поставщика, по крайней мере до 2023 года, даст гарантию военно-воздушным силам до тех пор, пока не будет ясности в отношении будущего спроса на коммерческие запуски, и до тех пор, пока военно-воздушные силы не будут уверены, что ракеты-носители, которые разрабатываются для программ National Security Space Launch будут готовы вовремя.

    Военно-воздушные силы намерены заключить пятилетние контракты в середине 2020 года с двумя поставщиками пусковых услуг, чтобы разделить примерно 30 запусков National Security Space Launch, начиная с 2022 финансового года. Предстоящее приобретение услуг по запуску известно как Phase 2 Launch Service Procurement.

    «Значительные проблемы были высказаны в отношении конкретных решений о приобретении для этой закупки», - говорится в исследовании. «Эти опасения привели к тому, что ВВС США попросили нас провести независимый анализ рынка запусков тяжелых спутников, чтобы оценить влияние, которое его краткосрочные решения могут оказать на отечественных поставщиков пусковых услуг».

        United Launch Alliance, SpaceX, Blue Origin и Northrop Grumman конкурируют за два контракта Phase 2 Launch Service Procurement.

    За исключением SpaceX, остальные три претендента предлагают ракеты новой конструкции, которые, согласно прогнозам, будут готовы к 2021 году. RAND заявляет, что существует значительный риск того, что ввод в эксплуатацию опоздает, и ВВС должны подготовиться к этому варианту.

        В настоящее время военно-воздушные силы сертифицируют ULA Vulcan, Northrop Grumman's OmegA и Blue Origin's New Glenn.

    Эти новые участники сталкиваются со значительными рисками развития, говорится в исследовании. «Основные двигатели, которые обеспечивают возможность космического полета, традиционно являются объектом высокого риска при разработке. Риск выбора двигателей для новых участников вызван выбором для РН Vulcan двигателей BE-4, также используемых на РН New Glenn, и двигателей GEM-63, также используемых на РН OmegA. Поэтому для всех этих участников мы предполагаем, что даты первых запусков весьма неопределенны».

    На основе исторических данных и вероятностных моделей RAND сообщает, что первые даты запуска этих аппаратов могут сдвинуться на один год или более.

    В исследовании говорится, что ВВС могут снизить риск несколькими способами, если ракета-носители не будут готовы к запуску спутников в Фазе 2 к 2022 году. Одним из них является продолжение использования оставшихся вариантов с ULA и SpaceX в соответствии с предыдущим контрактом на Фазу 1A для обеспечения готовности устаревших систем запуска.

    «В качестве альтернативы ВВС США могли бы снизить риск, выбрав третьего поставщика в рамках контракта этапа 2. В любом случае ВВС США будут поддерживать третьего поставщика, как рекомендовано в этом отчете», - говорится в исследовании.

    Государственная поддержка трех провайдеров до 2023 года была бы «разумной подготовкой к будущему, когда останутся только два американских поставщика NSS-сертифицированного запуска тяжелых военных спутников, по крайней мере, один из которых может иметь небольшую поддержку со стороны коммерческого рынка», говорит RAND.

    Согласно исследованию, «поддержка трех провайдеров в краткосрочной перспективе имеет долгосрочные преимущества в том смысле, что у американских компаний есть время для адаптации и позиционирования на пусковых рынках, а также позволяет рыночным механизмам (не ВВС США) определить, какие фирмы являются наиболее сильными, и таким образом обеспечить выживание наиболее эффективных и уход с рынка слабых».

    Неопределенность на коммерческом рынке

    RAND утверждает, что есть еще одна причина поддержки трех поставщиков - помочь американским поставщикам пусковых услуг оставаться конкурентоспособными на коммерческом рынке.

    Исследовательская группа обнаружила, что хотя число пусков по всему миру выросло до 71 в 2018 году с 47 в 1998 году, доля, с которой конкурируют провайдеры запусков, - так называемая адресная доля - оставалась стабильной в течение этого периода в среднем 20 пусков в год для тяжелых нагрузок.

    Аналитики RAND прогнозируют, что доля рынка занимаемая американскими фирмами, снизится, поскольку Arianespace и Россия примут на вооружение новые ракеты-носители, которые лучше подходят для тяжелых запусков. Это вызывает беспокойство у ВВС США, потому что стратегия Фазы 2 предполагает, что у провайдеров запусков будет здоровый коммерческий бизнес.

    Моделирование, проведенное для исследования, предполагает, что доля рынка, занимаемая американскими фирмами, может упасть до четырех-семи запусков тяжелых коммерческих спутников в год уже к 2025 году, говорит RAND, что делает вероятным, что запуски для национальной безопасности будут основным источником спроса на запуски тяжелых нагрузок в США в течение следующего десятилетия.

    Прогноз рынка запусков нагрузок для национальной безопасности остается стабильным: от семи до девяти запусков в год для анализируемого RAND сегмента.

    Исследователи не предоставили прогноз спроса на запуски НАСА. Исторически сложилось, что в среднем от трех до пяти запусков в год, но это «очень неровно», говорится в исследовании. Общий спрос в США в настоящее время составляет в среднем 12 запусков в год, причем запуски для национальной безопасности составляют большинство.

    RAND прогнозирует, что спрос на запуск со стороны коммерческих широкополосных группировок будет скромным. «Тяжелый» запуск - предпочтительный метод для построения первоначальных созвездий, потому что он обеспечивает быстрые и экономически эффективные способы построения созвездии, требуя меньше запусков. Тем не менее, говорится в исследовании, малые и средние запуски являются предпочтительными методами пополнения или замены спутников после завершения первоначального строительства созвездий из-за разной потребности в количестве и орбитах спутников.

    У ВВС есть возможности, чтобы управлять этим рынком

    В исследовании содержится предостережение о том, что военно-воздушные силы должны отговаривать поставщиков пусковых услуг от низких ставок только для того, чтобы получить контракты. Как покупатель с наибольшим спросом на запуск тяжелых спутников со стороны американских заказчиков, ВВС обладает монопольным влиянием на этом рынке. «Чтобы избежать будущего, в котором провайдеры продают запуски USAF с убытком, а затем с необходимостью консолидации (что было замечено до слияния с ULA), ВВС США должны тщательно сбалансировать свою ответственность, чтобы поддерживать здоровый пусковой рынок, и свою ответственность, чтобы уменьшить стоимость запусков для национальной безопасности».

    RAND также предлагает ВВС пересмотреть свое решение об ограничении средств на разработку для компаний, которые не выиграли контракты на закупку на втором этапе.

        Три контракта на разработку были заключены в октябре 2018 года для разработки образцов ракет-носителей Vulcan, New Glenn и OmegA.

    «На ранней стадии создания прототипа государственные инвестиции помогают фирмам совершенствовать свои предложения», - говорится в исследовании. «Вывод средств на этапе завершения, как это предусмотрено ВВС США для конкурентов, не прошедших по контрактам на этапе 2, может побудить фирмы отказаться от своих усилий по выходу на коммерческий рынок и предоставит возможность иностранным конкурентам предлагать или расширять свои предложения».

    В исследовании рекомендуется, чтобы военно-воздушные силы «продолжали оказывать поддержку как можно большему числу участников, которые могут позволить себе войти или продолжить работу на рынке пусков тяжелых спутников».

    Эта поддержка не должна быть дорогой, говорится в исследовании. «Иногда требуется только снятие запретов».

    Например, нематериальными средствами поддержки американских фирм может быть снятие ограничений на использование запасов двигателей межконтинентальных баллистических ракет для коммерческих запусков.

    Другим вариантом было бы введение Конгрессом запрета на двигатели российского производства в 2022 году в зависимости от успешного запуска альтернативных сертифицированных американских ракет-носителей.

    В течение многих лет ВВС США полагались на ракету ULA Atlas 5. Но Atlas 5 оснащен российским двигателем, и в соответствии с законодательством США после 2022 года ВВС запрещается покупать ракеты с двигателями, разработанными или изготовленными в России.

    RAND предполагает, что если к 2021 году ни один из провайдеров пусковых услуг, выбранный на этапе 2, не совершит успешный запуск, Конгрессу следует рассмотреть возможность отсрочки этого запрета.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 14.01.2020 16:01:10
    Довесок от автора перевода Вячеслава Ермолина:
    https://aftershock.news/?q=node/823009
    https://vk.com/@spaceactivityinfographics-rand-provel-nezavisimoe-issledovanie-puskovogo-rynka-vvs-ssh
    ЦитироватьНесколько соображений от себя.

    Статья о прогнозе рынка запуска тяжелых спутников. Самая дорогая и желанная доля рынка пусковых услуг в мире. Пресловутая RAND по заказу ВВС сделал прогноз и оценку рисков развития американских частных пусковых фирм. Кратко выводы такие:

    1. Высокая вероятность отложенных первых запусков новых ракета-носителей, разрабатываемых United Launch Alliance, Blue Origin и Northrop Grumman. Запуски планируются к 2021-му году. Основная проблема - разработка двигателей и их малый ассортимент. Задержки от года и выше.

    2. Продолжить использование "устаревших систем" от ULA (Atlas-5) и SpaceX (Falcon-9 и FH).

    3. Никаких предпосылок для роста запусков "тяжелых" спутников нет. В мире есть стабильный спрос на 20 запусков в год.

    4. Европа и Россия, вводя новые носители, создадут сложности на коммерческом рынке для американских фирм. Китай и Индия, видимо, будут выведены санкционными запретами. К 25-му году возможно падение доли коммерческого рынка для американских провайдеров до 4 -7 запусков в год.

    5. Американские заказчики могут обеспечить от 3 до 5 гражданских (НАСА) и от 5 до 9 военных. 12 запусков тяжелых спутников - средняя потребность на американском рынке со стороны государства.

    6. Группировки низкоорбитального интернета могут создать только кратковременный спрос на "тяжелые" запуски.

    7. Государственные заказчики (читай военные) надолго останутся основными на американском рынке.

    8. Необходимо поддерживать частные коммерческие фирмы государственными средствами для сохранения гарантированной возможности доступа к космосу и поддержки на коммерческом рынке.

    9. Возможна не только финансовая и материальная помощь, но и снятие запретов (в частности предлагается открыть доступ к запасам двигателей от МБР).

    10. Возможно придется продолжить покупку двигателей у России и после 22-го года (это срок запрета).

    Тот, кто реально знает реалии американского рынка пусковых услуг, весьма скептически относится к перспективам успешного развития частных пусковых фирм, ориентированных на коммерческий рынок. Коммерческий рынок пусковых услуг стабилен и никаких признаков для роста не показывает (рассматриваются ближайшие 10 лет). Предлагается вливать госденьги в частные фирмы (что и делалось все время ранее при создании "частного космоса").

        Забавное: ВВС предлагается предупредить частников о недопустимости практики ценового демпинга для получения контракта и последующего срыва сроков из-за недостатка ресурсов (как случилось с пилотажкой). Но "заливать" деньгами также не рекомендуется, надо экономить:)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 07.02.2020 23:16:04
    Лысый из ULA объясняет детям, что настоящая ракета должна быть люминивая и вафельная,  а не гладкое ведро из нержавейки как у этого фигляра.  :D

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/180275.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 13.02.2020 09:23:46
    Лысый из ULA  https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1227358025846906880

    ЦитироватьVulcan is in qual Testing. The first flight vehicle is being built right now. Initial deployment will be with a new Centaur V. Similar giant size, sans extreme duration
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 13.02.2020 22:14:18
    У лысого из ULA спросили - будет ли тройной "Вулкан"?
    Сказал, что возможно, но нет спроса в настоящий момент.
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1228003753305001989?s=20

    ЦитироватьVulcan is a heavy... in a single core.  A 3 core Vulcan would be cool and possible.  But not seeing a demand for one at present.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 13.02.2020 18:52:46
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    У лысого из ULA спросили - будет тройной "Вулкан".
    Сказал, что возможно, но нет спроса в настоящий момент.
     https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1228003753305001989?s=20 (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1228003753305001989?s=20)

     
    ЦитироватьVulcan is a heavy... in a single core.  A 3 core Vulcan would be cool and possible.  But not seeing a demand for one at present.
    Забавно. На СЛС спрос есть, а на тривулкан спроса нет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 14.02.2020 19:03:54
    ЦитироватьFirst two engines are already built. Will be delivered to ULA this year after acceptance testing. Still on track for 2021

    Пишут что готовы два товарных BE-4 для первого полета Вулкана.
    Not-у привет
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 14.02.2020 19:30:54
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    У лысого из ULA спросили - будет ли тройной "Вулкан"?
    Сказал, что возможно, но нет спроса в настоящий момент.
     https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1228003753305001989?s=20 (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1228003753305001989?s=20)

     
    ЦитироватьVulcan is a heavy... in a single core.  A 3 core Vulcan would be cool and possible.  But not seeing a demand for one at present.
    Дык они уже Атлас за счёт ускорителей уже почти дожали до уровня Хэви Дельты.  :oops: 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 14.02.2020 22:39:26
    Да ну.
    Самому тяжёлому "Атласу" до "Дельты" как до Луны.

    Зато "Вулкан" уже с 2 SRB будет как "Атлас" с 5-ью
    А Вулкан с 6-ю "SRB" - как раз "Дельту" и заменит.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/29550.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 15.02.2020 20:03:04
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    Да ну.
    Самому тяжёлому "Атласу" до "Дельты" как до Луны.

    Зато "Вулкан" уже с 2 SRB будет как "Атлас" с 5-ью
    А Вулкан с 6-ю "SRB" - как раз "Дельту" и заменит.

     

    Будет, будет! Скоро! (с) :D

    ЦитироватьВ исследовательской службе американского конгресса заявили, что США не смогут заменить российский ракетный двигатель РД-180 ещё как минимум десять лет. К такому выводу специалисты пришли, проанализировав состояние программы космических запусков в интересах национальной безопасности.

    https://russian.rt.com/world/article/717508-raketa-dvigatel-ssha (https://russian.rt.com/world/article/717508-raketa-dvigatel-ssha)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 15.02.2020 22:38:03
    Not, опять ты какую-то какашку сюда притащил.

    Чувствуя, что RT не может не лгать по природе своей, поискал оригинал отчёта.
    Эти твари специально не оставили ссылку на оригинал, пришлось потратить целых три минуты на google.

    Вот он https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R46211.pdf (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R46211.pdf)
    ЦитироватьLastly, efforts to transition away from the RD-180 to a domestic U.S. alternative engine or launch vehicle are not without technical, program, or schedule risks. Even with a smooth, on-schedule transition away from the RD-180 to an alternative engine or launch vehicle, the performance and reliability record achieved with the RD-180 to date would likely not be replicated until well beyond 2030 because the RD-180 has approximately 81 consecutive successful civil, commercial, and NSS launches since 2000. 

    Согласись, смысл принципиально иной.
    Даже ослику понятно, что новому двигателю потребуется значительное время, чтобы набрать статистику как у двигателя, используемого уже 20 лет.

    Лишний раз убеждаюсь, что пропо-гандоны это не люди.  :o 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 16.02.2020 08:50:42
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    Лишний раз убеждаюсь, что пропо-гандоны это не люди.  :o  
    Чебурашки же! :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 16.02.2020 09:03:10
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    Даже ослику понятно, что новому двигателю потребуется значительное время, чтобы набрать статистику как у двигателя, используемого уже 20 лет.
    Перечитай еще раз про "technical risks" и хлопни ушами :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 16.02.2020 00:24:59
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка написал:
    Чувствуя, что RT не может не лгать по природе своей, поискал оригинал отчёта.
    Эти твари специально не оставили ссылку на оригинал, пришлось потратить целых три минуты на google.

    Вот он  https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R46211.pdf (https://fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R46211.pdf)
     
    ЦитироватьLastly, efforts to transition away from the RD-180 to a domestic U.S. alternative engine or launch vehicle are not without technical, program, or schedule risks. Even with a smooth, on-schedule transition away from the RD-180 to an alternative engine or launch vehicle, the performance and reliability record achieved with the RD-180 to date would likely not be replicated until well beyond 2030 because the RD-180 has approximately 81 consecutive successful civil, commercial, and NSS launches since 2000.
    Не понял. Это чего - раша тудей-сюдей мнение аналитегов фас выдала за мнение некоей комиссии конгресса?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 16.02.2020 10:27:37
    ЦитироватьСтарый написал:
     
    ЦитироватьЧебурашка (//forum/user/14248/) написал:
    Чувствуя, что RT не может не лгать по природе своей, поискал оЭто чего - раша тудей-сюдей мнение аналитегов фас выдала за мнение некоей комиссии конгресса?
    Это тебе Рабинович напел. В текст то загляни, филолух! :) www.crs.gov
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 16.02.2020 21:00:20
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM)
    ЦитироватьBlue Origin BE-4 Engine Progress (Feb 2020)          
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/220477.jpg)                         (https://www.youtube.com/user/AmericaSpace)   AmericaSpace (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLYgjjg_-fyQwR-XgQ0JAXQ)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM)1:41
    Опубликовано: 14 февр. 2020 г.
    On Monday, Blue Origin will open its "high rate rocket engine production facility" in Huntsville, AL. In anticipation of that, the company wanted to show a little love for their BE-4 engine progress.
    Credit: Blue Origin
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 17.02.2020 02:11:43
    Цитироватьzandr написал:

    Здоровенный! Вообщем BE-4 готов, все характеристики заявленые подтвердились, миф о не возможности больше 200 тонн на камеру опровергнут, как и миф о невозможности схемы газ-газ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 17.02.2020 06:45:06
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
     
    Цитироватьzandr (//forum/user/44434/) написал:
    Здоровенный! Вообщем BE-4 готов, все характеристики заявленые подтвердились
    где посмотреть подтверждение?

    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
     миф о не возможности больше 200 тонн на камеру опровергнут
    это утверждение было для напряженных керосинок ,
    а бе4 метановый
    вон рс-68 водородный давно летает на 340 тс.
    так что ничто не опровергнуто
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 17.02.2020 06:51:04
    Цитироватьzandr написал:
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTnyti_lOhM)
     
    ЦитироватьBlue Origin BE-4 Engine Progress (Feb 2020)          

    самые популярные комменты на тытрубе:
    ЦитироватьWake me up again when they finally fly an actual orbital rocket...

    -----
    -When?
    -If not You, but Your kids will witness it!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 17.02.2020 11:21:11
    Цитироватьсамые популярные комменты на тытрубе:

    Это фанаты Маска набегают в видосики Безоса  :D 

    Ловите валентинку

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/180383.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 17.02.2020 09:15:38
    Цитироватьazvoz написал:
     
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот (//forum/user/59143/) написал:
     
    Цитироватьzandr (//forum/user/44434/)  написал:
    Здоровенный! Вообщем BE-4 готов, все характеристики заявленые подтвердились
    где посмотреть подтверждение?
    На видео выше об этом говорит вице президент по двигателям.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.02.2020 14:30:50
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
    На видео выше об этом говорит вице президент по двигателям.
    Он говорит, что в этом году они собираются выпустить два товарных двигателя и еще два провести через полный цикл испытаний (life cycle test).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 17.02.2020 11:48:42
    ЦитироватьApollo13 написал:
     
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот (//forum/user/59143/) написал:
    На видео выше об этом говорит вице президент по двигателям.
    Он говорит, что в этом году они собираются выпустить два товарных двигателя и еще два провести через полный цикл испытаний (life cycle test).
    В самом начале говорит об этом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.02.2020 15:19:03
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
     
    ЦитироватьApollo13 (//forum/user/16811/) написал:
     
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот (//forum/user/59143/)  написал:
    На видео выше об этом говорит вице президент по двигателям.
    Он говорит, что в этом году они собираются выпустить два товарных двигателя и еще два провести через полный цикл испытаний (life cycle test).
    В самом начале говорит об этом.
    Цитировать00:00
    b4 is really unique its 550,000 pounds


    00:05
    thrust it uses liquid natural gas and


    00:07
    oxygen its oxidizer rich stage


    00:09
    combustion that combination hasn't been


    00:12
    done by anybody anywhere else in the


    00:14
    world we're gonna deliver the first two


    00:16
    production engines this year we're also


    00:19
    gonna qualify to entire engines through


    00:21
    the lifecycle test

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 17.02.2020 11:25:09
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
     
    Цитироватьazvoz (//forum/user/57811/) написал:
     
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот (//forum/user/59143/)  написал:
       
    Цитироватьzandr (//forum/user/44434/)   написал:
    Здоровенный! Вообщем BE-4 готов, все характеристики заявленые подтвердились
    где посмотреть подтверждение?
    На видео выше об этом говорит вице президент по двигателям.
    Это нельзя назвать твердым подтверждением , тем более про ВСЕ заявленные характеристики.
    Будем ждать письменного официоза.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 17.02.2020 12:46:04
    Цитироватьazvoz написал:
    ЦитироватьЭто нельзя назвать твердым подтверждением , тем более про ВСЕ заявленные характеристики.
    Будем ждать письменного официоза.
    Можно, смысл врать? Остался год до пуска, на сайте как стояли 2400 кН так и стоят, в payload user guide написано 2400 кН, и вот главный по жрд сказал что 550 000 lbf тяги, что ещё нужно? Что за опровергателььство такое? В чем сверхцель врать blue origin по тяги их жрд? 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Apollo13 от 17.02.2020 16:16:06
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
     
    Цитироватьazvoz (//forum/user/57811/) написал:
    ЦитироватьЭто нельзя назвать твердым подтверждением , тем более про ВСЕ заявленные характеристики.
    Будем ждать письменного официоза.
    Можно, смысл врать? Остался год до пуска, на сайте как стояли 2400 кН так и стоят, в payload user guide написано 2400 кН, и вот главный по жрд сказал что 550 000 lbf тяги, что ещё нужно? Что за опровергателььство такое? В чем сверхцель врать blue origin по тяги их жрд?  
    Я тоже не вижу причин сомневаться в тяге, особенно учитывая, что это едва ли не единственная "заявленная характеристика" (ну там давление еще называли). Все это сильно напоминает бесконечные рассказы, что вторая ступень Фалкона не выдержит больше 11 тонн, которые закончились только когда Старлинки полетели. А про "23 т на LEO" до сих пор продолжается (http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum12/topic17056/message1948621/#message1948621), хотя казалось бы после тех же Старлинков уже до всех должно было бы дойти. :)

    Кстати из того же видео можно узнать, что 25-кратное использование цель следующего "block upgrade", работу над которым только начали.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Not от 18.02.2020 18:05:31
    ЦитироватьApollo13 написал:Я тоже не вижу причин сомневаться в тяге
    Ты и в страшном ветре не сомневался :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 22.02.2020 21:19:18
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
    Здоровенный!
    https://vk.com/spacex
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/file/115846)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Виктор Левашов от 23.02.2020 12:03:45
    ЦитироватьВаська Кот написал:
    Можно, смысл врать?
    Может они не врут.
    Может просто "мотивируют заказчика".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Сергей от 23.02.2020 18:07:28
    Пока все таки неясно. Но если разбить на этапы достижения проектных параметров, то для Безоса сейчас главное поставить два движка для Вулкана. Даже если пока и не может долго выдавать 2400 kN земной тяги, то уж провести испытания в составе первой ступени можно.  Может и форсажного режима хватит для начала ЛКИ.  И даже кратковременно 2400 kN уже достижение. 
    У Безоса еще много работы для собственного РН NG. Дросселирование, тонкое регулирование величины тяги посадочного движка, ресурс и пр. - NG то многоразовый.
    Маск то заявлял, что и рекорд по давлению в КС установил, однако вместо 31 Раптора на 1-й ступени уже 36.
    Так что время покажет чего достигли оппоненты на самом деле. Бум ждать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 01.03.2020 15:43:09
    https://youtu.be/o0fG_lnVhHw (https://youtu.be/o0fG_lnVhHw) 

    https://youtu.be/DQaPOIQLEUo (https://youtu.be/DQaPOIQLEUo). 

    отличное видео по заводу ЮЛЫ

    не пойму как оформлять, что бы видео было на странице.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 12.03.2020 17:24:40
    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/03/tory-bruno-ula-transition-vulcan-nssl-launches/

    Последний Атлас где-то между 2022 и 2024 годом

    ЦитироватьThe workhorse of the ULA fleet, Atlas V, is expected to retire on a similar timeframe. Bruno says the launcher could be "done as early as 2022, or as late as 2024."

    Последняя Дельта в 2023 или 2024 году

    ЦитироватьBruno expects the final Delta launch to occur in 2023 or 2024.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 16.04.2020 20:40:55
    Искать дальше 30 страниц надоело

    ЦитироватьElon Musk@elonmusk
    В ответ @Erdayastronaut @imatsb и еще 3 пользователям
    Yeah, Atlas main engine is Russian. Great engine, but not US. Also, their fairing is Swiss. I think interstage & payload separation system also not US.

     https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1250613227429527552
    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    This information is dated.  At our request, RUAG developed a new fairing for Atlas and Vulcan, Stood up its manufacturing in Alabama, literally inside our giant Decatur factory, and is producing fairings there.  Atlas cuts over to the new PLF this year

    GodlessAussie@GodlessAussie
    @torybruno
    Just curios as you only answered the fairing question. What about the interstage & payload separation system?

      https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1250782328231780353
    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    RUAG is now making all of our Atlas and Vulcan composite structures in Decatur

     https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1250766531455266820
    Psychonaut421@Psychonaut421
    В ответ @torybruno @thesheetztweetz и еще 4 пользователям
    Are the Atlas engines bought in bulk, or are they built to order per each rocket being built? How far in advance do you need to order?

    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    RD180s are fabricated in batches of 4. We currently have several years of inventory in hand

     https://twitter.com/ethan_spacex/status/1250767999210053633
    When do you think you'll eventually retire the mighty Atlas V?

    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    @ethan_spacex
    Early 2020s

     https://twitter.com/space_mib/status/1250770389409714176
    4:57 PM · 16 апр. 2020 г.
    @torybruno are there any considerations to switch the engines at Atlas to "american" engines or are you all in on Vulcan and the BE-4? Can't wait for Vulcan to start!
    Btw: love your twitter feed!

    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    В ответ @space_mib
    No, Atlas will restores as Vulcan fully ramps up

     Jack@Jack01620807
    В ответ @torybruno и @hichammohsen1
    Do you think demand would go up if cost fell drastically? as in by a factor of 10+?

     https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1250770432627785733
    Tory Bruno@torybruno
    Sadly no, cost has already fallen by a factor of >2. In fact, demand has softened. We call this ineleastic, meaning that demand is insensitive to price. happens when the thing (launch) is only a small fraction of the total cost, or when other factors are more important than price
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 16.09.2020 23:55:23
    https://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/news/75725/
    ЦитироватьВоенные США доверят выведение космического аппарата NTS-3 ракете Вулкан
    United Launch Alliance объявила о том, что она в 2022 году выведет на орбиту экспериментальный навигационный аппарат NTS-3 (Navigation Technology Satellite-3). В качестве средства выведения она будет использовать ракету Вулкан. Предполагается, что помимо демонстрационного спутника на орбиту также будет отправлена миссия USSF-106, однако последняя носит секретный характер и о ее целях ничего не известно. Как отмечают в ULA, до военных пусков ее новая ракета должна будет обеспечит выведение в период начиная с 2021 года двух коммерческих космических аппаратов.
    Относительно спутника NTS-3 известно, что это 1250 кг аппарат, который создается L3Harris по $84 млн. контракту с исследовательской лабораторией ВВС США (AFRL). Контракт на его создание был подписан в декабре 2018 года. После выведения спутник должен будет, находясь на геосинхронной орбите, дополнять среднеобитальную группировку GPS. С точки зрения технологий он будет отрабатывать такие системы, как фазированные антенные решетки и перепрограммируемые бортовые системы. Спутник будет создаваться на основе платформы Northrop Grumman ESPAStar, пишет Ecoruspace.
    А.Ж.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 22.11.2020 01:02:18
    https://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/news/77211/
    ЦитироватьULA: перенос сроков запуска корабля Dream Chaser не помешает сертификации ракеты Vulcan
    Для того чтобы сертифицировать свою ракету Вулкан для выполнения пусков в интересах Пентагона ULA необходимо провести два успешных пуска. При этом во время намеченного на 2021 год первого пуска в космос должен быть выведен лунный посадочный модуль Astrobotic, а во время второго – грузовой корабль  Dream Chaser компании Sierra Nevada Corporation (SNC). В этой связи сделанное компанией Sierra Nevada заявление о переносе запуска на 2022 год породил соответствующие сомнения относительно планов ULA по сертификации своей ракеты. В частности многие отмечают, что корабль может быть не готов и к 2022 году, а следовательно компании придется искать альтернативу или выводить массо-габаритный макет. С другой стороны это не означает, что компания не сможет оказывать услуги по запуску военных аппаратов поскольку контрактом предусмотрена альтернатива в виде ракет Atlas-5, пишет Ecoruspace.
    А.Ж.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 20.12.2020 21:02:33
    Цитата: Space books от 20.12.2020 13:24:41https://aboutspacejornal.net/2020/12/19/ula-%d0%be%d0%b1%d0%bd%d0%b0%d1%80%d0%be%d0%b4%d0%be%d0%b2%d0%b0%d0%bb%d0%b0-%d0%bf%d0%bb%d0%b0%d0%bd%d1%8b-%d0%bd%d0%b0-2021-%d0%b3%d0%be%d0%b4/
    Цитата: undefinedULA обнародовала планы на 2021 год
     17:38 19/12/2020
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/125017.png) (https://aboutspacejornal.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Screenshot_105-2.png)
    Руководитель ULA (https://www.ulalaunch.com/) объявил о том, что первый пуск новой ракеты (https://aboutspacejornal.net/%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5-%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D1%8B/%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B0-%D0%BD%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C/) Vulcan Centaur (https://aboutspacejornal.net/%D1%80%D0%BD-vulcan/) состоится в конце 2021 года. Эта операция будет сопровождаться выведением полезной нагрузки в виде лунного посадочного модуля Astrobotic Peregrine. В целом разработка этой ракеты идет в соответствии с планами, а двухлетняя задержка была вызвана необходимостью квалификации двигательной установки первой ступени – BE-4.
    Предполагается, что этот процесс закончится к лету 2021 года, что дает ULA достаточно времени для осуществления в конце 2021 года пуска.
    В целом же 2021 год будет для компании достаточно напряженным поскольку ей предстоит провести около 10 пусков (из них четыре в интересах национальной безопасности (включая один пуск ракеты Delta IV Heavy (https://aboutspacejornal.net/%D1%80%D0%BD-delta-iv/)), пять в интересах НАСА (https://www.nasa.gov/) (включая два пуска кораблей Старлайнер).
    Также руководитель компании отметил, что причиной четырехкратного переноса запуска NROL-44 стало то, что в условиях когда стартовый комплекс редко используется его оборудование ветшает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Чебурашка от 10.01.2021 22:27:52
    Вулкан с установленными макетными двигателями в жопе

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/54261.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 29.01.2021 21:43:03
    https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1355201317426384898/photo/1
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    Rollout of the Vulcan Launch Platform (VLP) is underway as we take the next step in our #CountdownToVulcan. The VLP is heading to the pad for initial functional testing with ground systems and support equipment.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/180678.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 29.01.2021 21:45:38
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    Although it looks similar to the #AtlasV Mobile Launch Platform (MLP), the Vulcan Launch Platform (VLP) is purpose-built to accommodate #VulcanCentaur's much larger diameter and its use of liquefied natural gas as propellant. It stands 183 feet tall and weighs 1.3 million pounds.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/180679.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 29.01.2021 21:48:25
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    Vulcan Launch Platform is a key element in the infrastructure for #VulcanCentaur at Cape Canaveral. VLP is the structure that will hold the rocket as the stages & payload are vertically stacked & then carry the fully assembled launch vehicle to the pad for fueling and liftoff.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/180680.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 24.04.2021 16:07:33
    https://www.ulalaunch.com/about/news/2021/04/19/amazon-secures-united-launch-alliance-s-proven-atlas-v-rocket-for-nine-project-kuiper-launches

    Цитата: undefinedAmazon Secures United Launch Alliance's Proven Atlas V Rocket for Nine Project Kuiper Launches

    Atlas V provides important reliability and schedule assurance in launch agreement
     
     
    Centennial, Colo., April 19, 2021 – United Launch Alliance (ULA) announced today that Amazon has secured Atlas V for nine launches supporting deployment of its ambitious Project Kuiper initiative. Project Kuiper is an initiative that will increase global broadband access through a constellation of 3,236 advanced satellites in low earth orbit. 

    "Project Kuiper will help bridge the digital divide across the United States and around the world, and we could not be more pleased to be working with Amazon to support the initiative," said Tory Bruno, ULA's president and CEO. "ULA is focused on serving our customer's missions and providing reliable, innovative launch solutions. We look forward to launching these important missions."

    The Atlas V missions will launch from Space Launch Complex 41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station in Florida.

    "We're determined to make affordable broadband a reality for customers and communities around the world," said Jeff Bezos, Amazon founder and CEO. "ULA is a fantastic partner that's successfully launched dozens of missions for commercial and government customers, and we're grateful for their support of Kuiper."
     
    "We've designed our satellites and dispenser system to accommodate multiple launch vehicles—this gives us the flexibility to use many different rockets and providers to launch our satellite system," said Rajeev Badyal, VP of technology for Project Kuiper. "Atlas V is a capable, reliable rocket, and we're proud to be working with ULA to support these important first launches."

    Atlas V has long been the nation's reliable workhorse for space launch and has been a key enabler to many critical missions for national security space, NASA and commercial customers including, GPS, SBIRS and MUOS constellations, as well as Mars Curiosity, InSight and Mars 2020 missions.

    "ULA takes great pride in serving our customers as their best value launch partner – from providing high confidence schedule certainty to flexible and responsive manifesting to transparent engineering collaboration on customer-specific mission design needs – we truly become one integrated team with our customers, fully dedicated to their success," said Chris Ellerhorst, ULA director of Strategy, Business Development and Sales. "We are thrilled that Amazon has put their trust in us."

    Amazon has committed more than $10 billion to deliver on its mission for Project Kuiper, which aims to make high-speed, low-latency broadband more affordable and accessible for unserved and underserved communities around the world. The project will serve individual households, as well as schools, hospitals, businesses, government agencies, and other organizations operating in places without reliable broadband.

    With more than a century of combined heritage, ULA is the nation's most experienced and reliable launch service provider. ULA has successfully delivered more than 140 missions to orbit that aid meteorologists in tracking severe weather, unlock the mysteries of our solar system, provide critical capabilities for troops in the field, deliver cutting-edge commercial services and enable GPS navigation.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 27.04.2021 08:04:41
    ЦитироватьSpaceflight Now  @SpaceflightNow
    A United Launch Alliance Delta 4-Heavy rocket climbed into orbit Monday from a military base in California, hauling to space a classified spy satellite as large as a bus & leaving just three Delta rockets left to fly before retirement.
    Camera: @SpaceForceDoD
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2021/04/26/spy-satellite-successfully-launched-from-california-military-base/
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/182847.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 26.08.2021 15:08:38
    Вот когда запустите New Glenn/Starliner/Vulcan, тогда и поговорите мне тут.

    А то как бюджеты жрать и лоббистов требовать, так все горазды.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Непричастный от 27.08.2021 04:04:23
    Цитата: /Иван/ от 26.08.2021 14:48:44«Огромные средства налогоплательщиков выбрасывались на ветер благодаря теплым отношениям, установленным благодаря политическим аппаратчикам Трампа в NASA, -- писал Сабатье 23 апреля. - Программа правительства по исследованию дальнего космоса под угрозой. Эта крупная программа под угрозой из-за политической поддержки, оказываемой Маску».
    Вот это особенно понравилось. "Деньги налогоплотильщиков выбрасываются на ветер", платя меньший ценник за пуски  и "дальний космос под угрозой", ага, особенно из-за запуска Теслы в сторону Марса. 

    "Сначала они тебя не замечают. Потом они над тобой смеются. Потом они с тобой борются. А потом ты побеждаешь"(с). Интересно, мы уже наблюдаем последней или предпоследней этап истории со SpaceX?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: lev_g от 27.08.2021 10:49:58
    ULA прекращает продажу запусков на РН Atlas V. На все 29 ракет, запланированных к производству и запуску до окончания эксплуатации уже заключены контракты. (https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/26/22641048/ula-boeing-lockheed-end-sales-atlas-v-rocket-russia-rd180)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 01.09.2021 00:02:01
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    Space Launch Complex-41 has undergone significant upgrades to support #VulcanCentaur and is an essential element of the U.S. space infrastructure.

    Check out the infographic below to learn more. #CountdownToVulcan
    https://flic.kr/p/2ky4pNu
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/177477.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 16.12.2021 06:29:53
    Цитата: /Иван/ от 16.12.2021 05:11:01
    Цитата: МОСКВА, 14 декабря 2021 / Радио Sputnik / https://radiosputnik.ria.ru/20211214/ssha-1763721262.htmlВ связи с тем, что американская компания Blue Origin задерживает поставку двух двигателей BE-4, испытания ракеты Vulcan могут быть перенесены на неопределенный срок, сообщает (https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/12/ula-disappointed-in-be-4-delay-but-still-aiming-for-2022-vulcan-launch/) издание "Ars Technica".

    Поставки двух метановых ракетных двигателей в Blue Origin обещают провести во втором квартале следующего года. По словам источника издания, на производстве произошли "относительно небольшие проблемы", в связи с чем протестировать установки удастся не раньше апреля 2022 года.
    Интересно, кто из двоих гениальных частников победит в отставании? Или таки оба не выйдут в финал?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 18.01.2022 23:41:04
    Цитата: Старый от 21.10.2020 17:42:01Вывод непосредственно на ГСО?
    А, нет, 511 на ГСО не летит.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 19.01.2022 07:25:01
    Цитата: полтора_землекопа от 19.01.2022 06:22:12Если GSSAP - тогда должна быть ГСО.
    Но вывод очевидно будет на ГПО, а оттуда сами, сами. 

    Ещё интересно почему большой обтекатель?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 19.01.2022 21:15:07
    Цитата: полтора_землекопа от 19.01.2022 20:36:00То есть для полетов на ГСО нужен GSO Kit, а он приживается только на представителях 500-й серии.
    Почему это?  ??? ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 19.01.2022 21:21:00
    Ну вот месяц назад с какимито второсортными спутниками на ГСО полетел Атлас-551-й. А тут 511-й...  ??? ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 20.01.2022 08:40:13
    Цитата: Старый от 19.01.2022 21:15:07
    Цитата: полтора_землекопа от 19.01.2022 20:36:00То есть для полетов на ГСО нужен GSO Kit, а он приживается только на представителях 500-й серии.
    Почему это?  ??? ::)
    Может, требуется лучшая теплоизоляция водородного бака.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 20.01.2022 15:07:39
    Цитата: nonconvex от 16.12.2021 06:29:53
    Цитата: /Иван/ от 16.12.2021 05:11:01
    Цитата: МОСКВА, 14 декабря 2021 / Радио Sputnik / https://radiosputnik.ria.ru/20211214/ssha-1763721262.htmlВ связи с тем, что американская компания Blue Origin задерживает поставку двух двигателей BE-4, испытания ракеты Vulcan могут быть перенесены на неопределенный срок, сообщает (https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/12/ula-disappointed-in-be-4-delay-but-still-aiming-for-2022-vulcan-launch/) издание "Ars Technica".

    Поставки двух метановых ракетных двигателей в Blue Origin обещают провести во втором квартале следующего года. По словам источника издания, на производстве произошли "относительно небольшие проблемы", в связи с чем протестировать установки удастся не раньше апреля 2022 года.
    Интересно, кто из двоих гениальных частников победит в отставании? Или таки оба не выйдут в финал?
    Блю ориджин до сих пор не достигли орбиты, а боенг и лохкиды закупают рд у потенциального противника, да и их бездарная рн летает 5 раз в год с последней не государственной пн в 2014 году.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 20.01.2022 16:41:54
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 20.01.2022 15:07:39Блю ориджин до сих пор не достигли орбиты, а боенг и лохкиды закупают рд у потенциального противника
    уже не закупают. В прошлом году последняя партия РД-180 улетела, да и то, потому что из-за ковидных ограничений полгода не могли приехать подписать формуляры.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 20.01.2022 19:08:54
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 20.01.2022 16:41:54
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 20.01.2022 15:07:39Блю ориджин до сих пор не достигли орбиты, а боенг и лохкиды закупают рд у потенциального противника
    уже не закупают. В прошлом году последняя партия РД-180 улетела, да и то, потому что из-за ковидных ограничений полгода не могли приехать подписать формуляры.
    Потребуется опять - закупят новую партию, делов то.  Замены то нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 20.01.2022 19:10:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 20.01.2022 19:08:54
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 20.01.2022 16:41:54
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 20.01.2022 15:07:39Блю ориджин до сих пор не достигли орбиты, а боенг и лохкиды закупают рд у потенциального противника
    уже не закупают. В прошлом году последняя партия РД-180 улетела, да и то, потому что из-за ковидных ограничений полгода не могли приехать подписать формуляры.
    Потребуется опять - закупят новую партию, делов то.  Замены то нет.
    В Америке РД-180 - лет на пять хватит. А закончатся, будут летать на Дельтах.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 21.01.2022 03:42:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 20.01.2022 19:08:54
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 20.01.2022 16:41:54
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 20.01.2022 15:07:39Блю ориджин до сих пор не достигли орбиты, а боенг и лохкиды закупают рд у потенциального противника
    уже не закупают. В прошлом году последняя партия РД-180 улетела, да и то, потому что из-за ковидных ограничений полгода не могли приехать подписать формуляры.
    Потребуется опять - закупят новую партию, делов то.  Замены то нет.
    Aug 26, 2021

    "ULA больше не будет продавать свои ракеты Atlas-V, и она навсегда прекратила покупать ракетные двигатели российского производства для ракеты-носителя, сообщил генеральный директор компании Тори Бруно.

    Решение ULA предусматривает вывод из эксплуатации одной из наиболее надежных ракет—носителей, как ожидается, ознаменует конец российского двигателя РД-180.

    "Мы закончили. Все они проданы", - сказал Тори Бруно о ракетах Atlas V в интервью.
    У ULA осталось 29 миссий Atlas V, прежде чем эта РН выйдет на пенсию где-то в середине 2020-х годов и ULA перейдет на "Vulcan", сказал Бруно.

    Остальные миссии Atlas V включают в себя ряд нераскрытых коммерческих заказчиков, а также некоторые для US Space Force, NASA и спутниковой группировки Amazon "Project Kuiper".

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/26/22641048/ula-boeing-lockheed-end-sales-atlas-v-rocket-russia-rd180

    Кстати, а что сейчас делается на бывшей производственной линии РД-180? Накрыли всё  брезентом до лучших времен, или разобрали?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 21.01.2022 14:54:54
    Про Дельту уже забыл, или вата мешает?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 24.01.2022 07:27:38
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 21.01.2022 14:54:54Про Дельту уже забыл, или вата мешает?
    Ты с кем рамсуешь? сам с собой?)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: sychbird от 24.01.2022 11:57:04
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 21.01.2022 03:42:50Кстати, а что сейчас делается на бывшей производственной линии РД-180? Накрыли всё  брезентом до лучших времен, или разобрали?
    Выпускают РД - 171МВ для Союза - 5. Линии кстати там не было. Опытное производство в штуках. Одна штука как два РД-180. ;)

    И пока еще вроде собирают и испытывают  РД-191 из частей из Перьми.
    Ну и РД-181 экспортные.
    Ребята не скучают. :D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 24.01.2022 14:16:14
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 20.01.2022 19:10:06В Америке РД-180 - лет на пять хватит. А закончатся, будут летать на Дельтах.
    Скорее уж на Фалконах.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: A. Gamov от 24.01.2022 14:47:31
    Цитата: sychbird от 24.01.2022 11:57:04
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 21.01.2022 03:42:50Кстати, а что сейчас делается на бывшей производственной линии РД-180? Накрыли всё  брезентом до лучших времен, или разобрали?
    Выпускают РД - 171МВ для Союза - 5. Линии кстати там не было. Опытное производство в штуках. Одна штука как два РД-180. ;)

    И пока еще вроде собирают и испытывают  РД-191 из частей из Перьми.
    Ну и РД-181 экспортные.
    Ребята не скучают. :D
    Последний РД-180 собрали года полтора назад. Сколько сделали РД-171МВ с тех пор?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 24.01.2022 15:59:44
    Цитата: Просто Василий от 24.01.2022 07:27:38Ты с кем рамсуешь? сам с собой?)

    Там была цитата нонконвекса, ей богу.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Роман Б от 02.02.2022 12:32:37
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 20.01.2022 19:10:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 20.01.2022 19:08:54В Америке РД-180 - лет на пять хватит. А закончатся, будут летать на Дельтах.
    Несколько лет назад я читал, что американцы закупают РД-180 с запасом в 20 единиц, что при максимальном количестве пусков ракеты "Атлас-5" пять пусков в год обеспечивает запас по времени в 4 года и дает возможность найти замену ракете. Это так?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 02.02.2022 16:01:06
    Цитата: /Иван/ от 26.01.2022 17:26:47
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 21.01.2022 14:54:54Про Дельту уже забыл, или вата мешает?
    Цитата: https://oko-planet.su/science/sciencecosmos/519351-delta-iv-heavy-uydet-v-otstavku-v-2023-g.htmlDelta IV Heavy «уйдет в отставку» в 2023 г.
    Последние запуски Delta IV Heavy состоятся в 2022-2023 г. В прошлом году ULA и NRO подписали 467-миллионный контракт на вывод аппаратов NROL-70, NROL-91 и NROL-68. Альянс уже приступил к изготовлению трех последних носителей.

    Ну так Vulcan на подходе.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 16:47:18
    Цитата: Роман Б от 02.02.2022 12:32:37
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 20.01.2022 19:10:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 20.01.2022 19:08:54В Америке РД-180 - лет на пять хватит. А закончатся, будут летать на Дельтах.
    Несколько лет назад я читал, что американцы закупают РД-180 с запасом в 20 единиц, что при максимальном количестве пусков ракеты "Атлас-5" пять пусков в год обеспечивает запас по времени в 4 года и дает возможность найти замену ракете. Это так?
    После запуска 21 января 2022 года очередного Атласа-5 миссии "USSF-8" у ULA осталось 24 двигателя РД-180.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Роман Б от 02.02.2022 17:16:03
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 16:47:18После запуска 21 января 2022 года очередного Атласа-5 миссии "USSF-8" у ULA осталось 24 двигателя РД-180.
    Значит так и есть. И запас приличный, даже больше. Получается на начало года 25 двигателей. А это на 5 лет запусков при так сказать максимально плотном графике полётов ракет "Атлас-5"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 20:50:24
    Цитата: Роман Б от 02.02.2022 17:16:03
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 16:47:18После запуска 21 января 2022 года очередного Атласа-5 миссии "USSF-8" у ULA осталось 24 двигателя РД-180.
    Значит так и есть. И запас приличный, даже больше. Получается на начало года 25 двигателей. А это на 5 лет запусков при так сказать максимально плотном графике полётов ракет "Атлас-5"
    Там будет не совсем линейный расход. Во-первых, все Атласы уже раскуплены, что позволяет прикинуть, когда что полетит.

    Во-вторых, крайними станут 6 пост-сертификационных миссий для Старлайнера к МКС, которые будут проводиться раз в год. Если сертификат на регулярные полеты Старлайнер получит в 2023, то это означает что Атлас-V будет с ним летать по крайней мере до 2029.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.02.2022 02:23:04
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 02.02.2022 16:01:06Ну так Vulcan на подходе.
    А должен быть уже на старте. Эта шкура еще бегает по амазонским лесам.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Роман Б от 03.02.2022 17:40:28
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 20:50:24Там будет не совсем линейный расход. Во-первых, все Атласы уже раскуплены, что позволяет прикинуть, когда что полетит.

    Во-вторых, крайними станут 6 пост-сертификационных миссий для Старлайнера к МКС, которые будут проводиться раз в год. Если сертификат на регулярные полеты Старлайнер получит в 2023, то это означает что Атлас-V будет с ним летать по крайней мере до 2029.
    Ну то есть количество пусков будет не максимальным, правильно?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 03.02.2022 17:57:40
    Цитата: Роман Б от 03.02.2022 17:40:28
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 02.02.2022 20:50:24Там будет не совсем линейный расход. Во-первых, все Атласы уже раскуплены, что позволяет прикинуть, когда что полетит.

    Во-вторых, крайними станут 6 пост-сертификационных миссий для Старлайнера к МКС, которые будут проводиться раз в год. Если сертификат на регулярные полеты Старлайнер получит в 2023, то это означает что Атлас-V будет с ним летать по крайней мере до 2029.
    Ну то есть количество пусков будет не максимальным, правильно?
    На средний темп в 5 Атласов/год вполне можно рассчитывать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Роман Б от 04.02.2022 11:45:29
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 03.02.2022 17:57:40На средний темп в 5 Атласов/год вполне можно рассчитывать.
    Да это даже не средний темп
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 04.02.2022 16:13:57
    Цитата: Роман Б от 04.02.2022 11:45:29
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 03.02.2022 17:57:40На средний темп в 5 Атласов/год вполне можно рассчитывать.
    Да это даже не средний темп
    91 запуск за 20 лет (с августа 2002) = 4.5 в год. 
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_V#Atlas_V_launches
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10
    Очень небанально дела обстоят у ULA. Осталось 25 ракет (не бьет с 24 по местным подсчетам). Но они все проданы. И с 23 года все ракеты всего по 2 контрактам. С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом. Предположу, что Kuiper могут на Вулканы пересадить, они Амазоновские, Безоса попросят свои же грехи замолить, если ракета нужна будет на USSF. Дельты же осталось 3 штуки. И все на военку распланированы в 2022-2024 по пуску в год. 
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/57558.png)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 06.02.2022 02:06:33
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10Очень небанально дела обстоят у ULA. Осталось 25 ракет (не бьет с 24 по местным подсчетам). Но они все проданы. И с 23 года все ракеты всего по 2 контрактам. С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом. Предположу, что Kuiper могут на Вулканы пересадить, они Амазоновские, Безоса попросят свои же грехи замолить, если ракета нужна будет на USSF. Дельты же осталось 3 штуки. И все на военку распланированы в 2022-2024 по пуску в год.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/57558.png)
    Viasat-3 летит на Falcon Heavy.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 06.02.2022 06:52:47
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 06.02.2022 02:06:33Viasat-3 летит на Falcon Heavy.
    Некорректное возражение.
    Под названием "Viasat-3" три разных спутника для разных регионов.

    Один полетит на Атлас-5.
    Другой запланирован на Ариан-6.
    Третий на ФХ.

    В Виасате решили раздать всем сестрам по серьгам.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 06.02.2022 10:08:33
    Ребятишки уже потеряли три пилотируемых пуска к мкс и это если боенг снова не облажается, полетев с первой регулярной миссией в октябре/ноябре 23-ого. Сумма недополученных $ будет районе полумиллиарда, а маркетолог в шляпе ой как рассчитывал их получить. Будет ротация кораблей, никто не позволит лоббистам запускать 6 миссий подряд, как нарисовано на графике.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 08.02.2022 08:24:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом.
    Примут поправочку к санкционному списку и исключат из него Энергомаш. Не впервой.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 08.02.2022 15:31:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 08.02.2022 08:24:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом.
    Примут поправочку к санкционному списку и исключат из него Энергомаш. Не впервой.
    Да-да. Прям видно как к этому все идёт. 
    Двое мечтателей собрались тут))
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 09.02.2022 06:18:48
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 08.02.2022 15:31:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 08.02.2022 08:24:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом.
    Примут поправочку к санкционному списку и исключат из него Энергомаш. Не впервой.
    Да-да. Прям видно как к этому все идёт.
    Двое мечтателей собрались тут))
    Точно, один - Безос, другой - Маск. Оба мечтают сделать метановый двигатель.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 19:23:20
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.02.2022 06:18:48
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 08.02.2022 15:31:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 08.02.2022 08:24:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом.
    Примут поправочку к санкционному списку и исключат из него Энергомаш. Не впервой.
    Да-да. Прям видно как к этому все идёт.
    Двое мечтателей собрались тут))
    Точно, один - Безос, другой - Маск. Оба мечтают сделать метановый двигатель.
    У первого летные экземпляры БЕ-4 проходят тесты перед отправкой заказчику, у второго Рапторы вообще уже летают, а на стендах идут огневые испытания уже следующего поколения. Погрызите ковер в ярости)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 21:13:16
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 08.02.2022 15:31:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 08.02.2022 08:24:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 06.02.2022 01:08:10С 2023 у ULA не будет ракеты для обслуживания контрактов, если вдруг не сойдутся звезды с Вулканом.
    Примут поправочку к санкционному списку и исключат из него Энергомаш. Не впервой.
    Да-да. Прям видно как к этому все идёт.
    Двое мечтателей собрались тут))
    Не понял я чего то. Я просто констатировал факт - если Вулкан не полетит сразу, без проблем и задержек (от текущих планов), то им нечем будет обеспечивать военные контракты с 2023 года. И единственный выход без нового производства Атласов это пересадить контракты Безоса на Вулканы. Где я чего не так сказал то?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: strat от 09.02.2022 22:20:27
    Всегда на готове есть Фэлкон 9 и Фэлкон Хэви, военные не останутся без ракет под любые свои потребности даже если ULA завтра исчезнет)))
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 22:34:29
    Цитата: strat от 09.02.2022 22:20:27Всегда на готове есть Фэлкон 9 и Фэлкон Хэви, военные не останутся без ракет под любые свои потребности даже если ULA завтра исчезнет)))
    Дак яж не за военных волнуюсь, за ULA скорее.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 09.02.2022 23:22:05
    Я, кстати, не совсем понял оживленную дискуссию про расписание оставшихся пусков Атлас V. ::)  Читаем Педивикию здесь List of Atlas launches (2020–2029) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(2020%E2%80%932029)). И видим, что в 2022 году предполагается 10 пусков. В 2023 году предполагается 3 пуска, ну, а в 2024 - 2 пуска. Еще 9 пусков (по проекту Kuiper) предполагается растянуть аж до 2029 года. Т.е., Атлас будет летать до 2029 года. Даже если предположить, что Вулкан задержится (допустим на год или два), то пуски Вулкана можно будет подстраховать Атласами. Ну, а потом Вулкан поработает за израсходованные Атласы. По-моему, у ЮЛИ блестящие перспективы и у них все в порядке. И не надо за них переживать.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 09.02.2022 23:22:05Я, кстати, не совсем понял оживленную дискуссию про расписание оставшихся пусков Атлас V. ::)  Читаем Педивикию здесь List of Atlas launches (2020–2029) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(2020%E2%80%932029)). И видим, что в 2022 году предполагается 10 пусков. В 2023 году предполагается 3 пуска, ну, а в 2024 - 2 пуска. Еще 9 пусков (по проекту Kuiper) предполагается растянуть аж до 2029 года. Т.е., Атлас будет летать до 2029 года. Даже если предположить, что Вулкан задержится (допустим на год или два), то пуски Вулкана можно будет подстраховать Атласами. Ну, а потом Вулкан поработает за израсходованные Атласы. По-моему, у ЮЛИ блестящие перспективы и у них все в порядке. И не надо за них переживать.  ::)
    Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:35:44
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    ;D чем вам плох Безос?  ;D как американский производитель?  ;D

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:40:51
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 09.02.2022 23:22:05Я, кстати, не совсем понял оживленную дискуссию про расписание оставшихся пусков Атлас V. ::)  Читаем Педивикию здесь List of Atlas launches (2020–2029) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(2020%E2%80%932029)). И видим, что в 2022 году предполагается 10 пусков. В 2023 году предполагается 3 пуска, ну, а в 2024 - 2 пуска. Еще 9 пусков (по проекту Kuiper) предполагается растянуть аж до 2029 года. Т.е., Атлас будет летать до 2029 года. Даже если предположить, что Вулкан задержится (допустим на год или два), то пуски Вулкана можно будет подстраховать Атласами. Ну, а потом Вулкан поработает за израсходованные Атласы. По-моему, у ЮЛИ блестящие перспективы и у них все в порядке. И не надо за них переживать.  ::)
    Пересадить Безоса с его спутниками на Вулканы может и придётся, но ведь главное, что Вулкан должен будет заменить, это не средние нагрузки на Атласах, а тяжелые спутники разведки, выводимые Delta 4 Heavy на ГСО.
     
    И здесь высвобождение нескольких Атласов не поможет, нужно будет или продолжать выпускать Дельты, цена которых вообще уедет за полмиллиарда, или придумывать что-то новаторское, типа одноразовых Falcon Heavy с (еще больше) увеличенным обтекателем, или Старшип, или запускать на Ariane-64. Но если дойдет до такого, то Безосу и Блюшникам это надолго припомнят. :-\

    В любом случае, на заказ дополнительных РД-180, о чем так мечтает нонконвекс, я бы не рассчитывал.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:35:44
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    ;D чем вам плох Безос?  ;D как американский производитель?  ;D


    Да в первую очередь тем, что ему пофиг. Сегодня он делает ракеты а завтра мода сменится и он будет делать, то, что заинтересует людей там. К тому же, после неизбежного разгрома от спейсх особенно по линии HLS он переориентирует свои денежки для снижения репутационных потерь. Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:54:08
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:35:44
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    ;D чем вам плох Безос?  ;D как американский производитель?  ;D


    Да в первую очередь тем, что ему пофиг. Сегодня он делает ракеты а завтра мода сменится и он будет делать, то, что заинтересует людей там. К тому же, после неизбежного разгрома от спейсх особенно по линии HLS он переориентирует свои денежки для снижения репутационных потерь. Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    А чем вам типичные бизнесмены противят? Вам нравятся Остапы Бендеры типа Маска? Потому, что очень хочется? Или гладиолус? 
    И чем вам Безос - исчадие ада то?  :o тем, что спейс х дорогу перешел?  :o фанат? 

    А серьезно.. 
    Для решения текущих задач мериканцы(в виде правительства) - либо "национализируют" (раздробят на состовляющие и продадут по судебным искам) спейс х, либо "чутка" поддержат Безоса или около него "вменяемого" бизнесмена...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:55:12
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:40:51
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 09.02.2022 23:22:05Я, кстати, не совсем понял оживленную дискуссию про расписание оставшихся пусков Атлас V. ::)  Читаем Педивикию здесь List of Atlas launches (2020–2029) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Atlas_launches_(2020%E2%80%932029)). И видим, что в 2022 году предполагается 10 пусков. В 2023 году предполагается 3 пуска, ну, а в 2024 - 2 пуска. Еще 9 пусков (по проекту Kuiper) предполагается растянуть аж до 2029 года. Т.е., Атлас будет летать до 2029 года. Даже если предположить, что Вулкан задержится (допустим на год или два), то пуски Вулкана можно будет подстраховать Атласами. Ну, а потом Вулкан поработает за израсходованные Атласы. По-моему, у ЮЛИ блестящие перспективы и у них все в порядке. И не надо за них переживать.  ::)
    Пересадить Безоса с его спутниками на Вулканы может и придётся, но ведь главное, что Вулкан должен будет заменить, это не средние нагрузки на Атласах, а тяжелые спутники разведки, выводимые Delta 4 Heavy на ГСО.
     
    И здесь высвобождение нескольких Атласов не поможет, нужно будет или продолжать выпускать Дельты, цена которых вообще уедет за полмиллиарда, или придумывать что-то новаторское, типа одноразовых Falcon Heavy с (еще больше) увеличенным обтекателем, или Старшип, или запускать на Арине-64. Но если дойдет до такого, то Безосу и Блюшникам это надолго припомнят. :-\

    В любом случае, на заказ дополнительных РД-180, о чем так мечтает нонконвекс, я бы не рассчитывал.
    Насколько я понимаю, нагрузки, планируемые в 2023 году требует максимум 4-бустерный Вулкан, то есть 5-бустерный Атлас их вытянет. Никто Дельты конечно делать не будет. И РД докупать. Одно экономически, другое политически неприемлемо. Ариана сейчас там же где и Вулкан и у нее своей работы хватает, да и не очевидно по вопросу запуска секретной нагрузки. Старшип как реальная услуга еще дальше. В крайнем случае FH. Но это поражение для ULA. И они будут совать уже проданные атласы даже в минус себе. Хотя в случае чего не им и решать будет. Хотя вполне вероятно, что с Вулканом все будет хорошо, но выглядит, что они многовато на карту поставили.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:56:48
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    При этом он финансирует Blue Origin уже 22 года, и чем дальше - тем всё больше. 

    Про девок его и яхты знаю, и тоже не одобряю, но он на деле доказал, что может играть вдолгую. Чай не Филев.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:02:10
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:54:08А серьезно.. 
    Для решения текущих задач мериканцы(в виде правительства) - либо "национализируют" (раздробят на состовляющие и продадут по судебным искам) спейс х, либо "чутка" поддержат Безоса или около него "вменяемого" бизнесмена...
    А чем это поможет? В смысле, чем мешает решению текущих задач SpaceX в ее нынешнем виде? Что-то не выполняется? Пилотируемый Дракон не летает, или F9 недостаточно часто запускают?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:02:55
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:54:08
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:35:44
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    ;D чем вам плох Безос?  ;D как американский производитель?  ;D


    Да в первую очередь тем, что ему пофиг. Сегодня он делает ракеты а завтра мода сменится и он будет делать, то, что заинтересует людей там. К тому же, после неизбежного разгрома от спейсх особенно по линии HLS он переориентирует свои денежки для снижения репутационных потерь. Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    А чем вам типичные бизнесмены противят? Вам нравятся Остапы Бендеры типа Маска? Потому, что очень хочется? Или гладиолус?
    И чем вам Безос - исчадие ада то?  :o тем, что спейс х дорогу перешел?  :o фанат?

    А серьезно..
    Для решения текущих задач мериканцы(в виде правительства) - либо "национализируют" (раздробят на состовляющие и продадут по судебным искам) спейс х, либо "чутка" поддержат Безоса или около него "вменяемого" бизнесмена...
    Я тот еще фанат маска. Но так или иначе ему не отнять заинтересованности в вопросе. Я больше фанат традиционных компаний. Локхида, Боинга и тп. Ну насколько конечно я в целом фанат Американской космонавтики. 
    Что до действий о которых вы пишите рискну предположить, что лобби СпейсХ уже не даст так просто все это сделать. В елом уже прослеживается, что правящие круги недовольны их неуправляемостью. Я думаю мы еще увидим некое противостояние, где Маск будет обвинять государство в препятствовании, когда те к примеру запретят пускать больше 1 старшипа в месяц, ссылаясь на формальный повод с высокой "зеленой" или другой схожей повесткой. Хотя причина будет не в этом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:07:19
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:56:48
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    При этом он финансирует Blue Origin уже 22 года, и чем дальше - тем всё больше.

    Про девок его и яхты знаю, и тоже не одобряю, но он на деле доказал, что может играть вдолгую. Чай не Филев.
    Пофиг на девок и яхты, это вообще не имеет значение. И S7, которая на несколько порядков беднее тоже не имеет ничего общего. И 22 года с выхлопом на 5 лет работы тоже не показатель. Важны общие приоритеты. И это не космос.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 00:18:40
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 19:23:20У первого летные экземпляры БЕ-4 проходят тесты перед отправкой заказчику, у второго Рапторы вообще уже летают, а на стендах идут огневые испытания уже следующего поколения. Погрызите ковер в ярости)
    Пока что ярость заметна у вас, словесная. Вы тоже можете назвать что-нибудь летным экземпляром. Рапторы вообще летают, а в частности надежность очень низкая. Проблемы высоконапряженных двигателей проявляются при эксплуатационных нагрузок, которых еще не было, во всяком случае публично.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:20:06
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.
    Да ладно. BE-4 - это всего лишь двигатель. И рано или поздно его доведут. Да, у Безоса все очень плохо с менеджментом, поэтому он сильно опаздывает. Кстати, у Маска с менеджментом производства метановых двигателей тоже есть проблемы.  ::) Да, и когда BE-4 наконец полетит, он будет самым тяговитым метановым РД, потому как Раптор тут будет послабее.  ::)
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует.
    Нет, это РН разных поколений, но эти поколения отличаются эволюционно, а не революционно. Самая важная часть Вулкана - это Centaur V, у конкурентов ничего похожего нет. И как обещает Бруно, Centaur V сможет сохранять ЖВ жидким месяцами, а может и годами.  ::) GEM-63XL имеет УИ на уровне моря 280 с, какой РДТТ может похвастаться таким УИ? Осталось довести BE-4 и будет вполне современная РН.  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:22:51
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:07:19Пофиг на девок и яхты, это вообще не имеет значение. И S7, которая на несколько порядков беднее тоже не имеет ничего общего. И 22 года с выхлопом на 5 лет работы тоже не показатель. Важны общие приоритеты. И это не космос.
    Если человек за 22 года уже вложил десяток миллиардов в свою космическую компанию, продолжает вкладывать всё больше, и несмотря на все задержи и неудачи продолжает этим заниматься, то говорить что он "просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось" немножко несправедливо. 


    Про Филева было абсолютно к месту (хотя и неприятно, я понимаю), ибо важен не столько объем инвестиций, сколько постоянство и упертость. Ничего подобного я не наблюдаю.

    P.S. Если хотите, можно вместо Филева вставить Кокорича, или Полякова, или Сашу Ильина. Ко всем ним ровно в той же степени относится.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:40:51Пересадить Безоса с его спутниками на Вулканы может и придётся, но ведь главное, что Вулкан должен будет заменить, это не средние нагрузки на Атласах, а тяжелые спутники разведки, выводимые Delta 4 Heavy на ГСО.
    Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял. Ну, на крайняк можно склепать пару-тройку Тяжелых Дельт и выкрутиться из ситуации.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:30:39
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:02:10
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:54:08А серьезно..
    Для решения текущих задач мериканцы(в виде правительства) - либо "национализируют" (раздробят на состовляющие и продадут по судебным искам) спейс х, либо "чутка" поддержат Безоса или около него "вменяемого" бизнесмена...
    А чем это поможет? В смысле, чем мешает решению текущих задач SpaceX в ее нынешнем виде? Что-то не выполняется? Пилотируемый Дракон не летает, или F9 недостаточно часто запускают?
    Анекдот. 
    Хочу бабу с буфереми и чтоб мозгов было меньше..чтоб не выеживалась... 
    А если серьезно, то антимонопольные их законы. (ну и так вами любимая по этому поводу идеология) о которой вы почему то забываете. 
    Привет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:31:28
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:22:51
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:07:19Пофиг на девок и яхты, это вообще не имеет значение. И S7, которая на несколько порядков беднее тоже не имеет ничего общего. И 22 года с выхлопом на 5 лет работы тоже не показатель. Важны общие приоритеты. И это не космос.
    Если человек за 22 года уже вложил десяток миллиардов в свою космическую компанию, продолжает вкладывать всё больше, и несмотря на все задержи и неудачи продолжает этим заниматься, то говорить что он "просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось" немножко несправедливо. 


    Про Филева было абсолютно к месту (хотя и неприятно, я понимаю), ибо важен не столько объем инвестиций, сколько постоянство и упертость. Ничего подобного я не наблюдаю.

    P.S. Если хотите, можно вместо Филева вставить Кокорича, или Полякова, или Сашу Ильина. Ко всем ним ровно в той же степени относится.
    Он вложил десяток лярдов за 22 года только потому, что оборот за это время у него исчисляется десятками триллионов (!!!). 
    Что до Филева то вообще пофиг, не жалко не капли и не обидно. Рисковать единственной нормальной негосударственной авиакомпанией ради стартапа. Это просто глупо. Ты либо занимаешься космосом либо нет. На пол шишки нельзя. В целом пока рассчитывать на частный рынок пусковых услуг можно только как на чудо. Не потому что бизнес такой, а потому, что риски нереальные и конкуренцию им не выиграть ни на домашнем рынке у РК ни международный. Всему свое время. Найдется дверь и мы туда зайдем.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:33:33
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:02:55
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:54:08
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:43:47
    Цитата: Leonar от 09.02.2022 23:35:44
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Да я буквально один в один и сказал, что так и будет. Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.  В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует. В любом случае желаю им успеха как никому среди Американских производителей, максимально импонирую им. Их рациональный подход прекрасен. Другое дело, что сделка с дьяволом (Безосом) это ошибка. Но кто их не допускает.
    ;D чем вам плох Безос?  ;D как американский производитель?  ;D


    Да в первую очередь тем, что ему пофиг. Сегодня он делает ракеты а завтра мода сменится и он будет делать, то, что заинтересует людей там. К тому же, после неизбежного разгрома от спейсх особенно по линии HLS он переориентирует свои денежки для снижения репутационных потерь. Вообще тот факт, что он вообще занимается космосом следствие лишь того, что оборот амазона настолько велик, что реинвестировать прибыль в развитие уже не эффективно и он просто рассовывает фантики туда, куда ему взбрендилось. Не выстрелит за 3(условно) попытки и он бросит. Типичный бизнесмен.
    А чем вам типичные бизнесмены противят? Вам нравятся Остапы Бендеры типа Маска? Потому, что очень хочется? Или гладиолус?
    И чем вам Безос - исчадие ада то?  :o тем, что спейс х дорогу перешел?  :o фанат?

    А серьезно..
    Для решения текущих задач мериканцы(в виде правительства) - либо "национализируют" (раздробят на состовляющие и продадут по судебным искам) спейс х, либо "чутка" поддержат Безоса или около него "вменяемого" бизнесмена...
    Я тот еще фанат маска. Но так или иначе ему не отнять заинтересованности в вопросе. Я больше фанат традиционных компаний. Локхида, Боинга и тп. Ну насколько конечно я в целом фанат Американской космонавтики.
    Что до действий о которых вы пишите рискну предположить, что лобби СпейсХ уже не даст так просто все это сделать. В елом уже прослеживается, что правящие круги недовольны их неуправляемостью. Я думаю мы еще увидим некое противостояние, где Маск будет обвинять государство в препятствовании, когда те к примеру запретят пускать больше 1 старшипа в месяц, ссылаясь на формальный повод с высокой "зеленой" или другой схожей повесткой. Хотя причина будет не в этом.
    Согласен с тем, что причина будет не в этом  ;D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:09
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:20:06
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.
    Да ладно. BE-4 - это всего лишь двигатель. И рано или поздно его доведут. Да, у Безоса все очень плохо с менеджментом, поэтому он сильно опаздывает. Кстати, у Маска с менеджментом производства метановых двигателей тоже есть проблемы.  ::) Да, и когда BE-4 наконец полетит, он будет самым тяговитым метановым РД, потому как Раптор тут будет послабее.  ::)
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59В моем видении Атлас и Вулкан это ракеты одного поколения. Более того, первая хоть и имеет более "примитивную" топливную пару, гораздо лучше ее реализует.
    Нет, это РН разных поколений, но эти поколения отличаются эволюционно, а не революционно. Самая важная часть Вулкана - это Centaur V, у конкурентов ничего похожего нет. И как обещает Бруно, Centaur V сможет сохранять ЖВ жидким месяцами, а может и годами.  ::) GEM-63XL имеет УИ на уровне моря 280 с, какой РДТТ может похвастаться таким УИ? Осталось довести BE-4 и будет вполне современная РН.  ;)
    Да эти отличия это пшик для 95% нагрузок, которым пофиг сколько Вулкан может водород держать и 100% нагрузок которым пофиг 5 послабее или 4 помощнее гема весит на ракете. Это влияет на цену запуска на удешевление, но не кратно, да еще и BE-4 их не поддерживает. Может для каких ни будь научных миссий этот Центавр сыграет свою красивую роль, но это капля в море.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:56
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:40:51Пересадить Безоса с его спутниками на Вулканы может и придётся, но ведь главное, что Вулкан должен будет заменить, это не средние нагрузки на Атласах, а тяжелые спутники разведки, выводимые Delta 4 Heavy на ГСО.
    Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял. Ну, на крайняк можно склепать пару-тройку Тяжелых Дельт и выкрутиться из ситуации.  ::)
    Кто платить будет?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 00:38:48
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:20:06
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 09.02.2022 23:30:59Другое дело, что я все же не верю в чудо, BE-4 это шлак.
    Да ладно. BE-4 - это всего лишь двигатель. И рано или поздно его доведут. Да, у Безоса все очень плохо с менеджментом, поэтому он сильно опаздывает.
    Вот ведь странно. В процветающем Амазон-предприятии Безоса с менеджментом все в порядке, а тут почему то все очень плохо. И у Маска, тоже понимаешь головы менеджеров летят. Может не в менеджменте дело?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:41:55
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:56
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 09.02.2022 23:40:51Пересадить Безоса с его спутниками на Вулканы может и придётся, но ведь главное, что Вулкан должен будет заменить, это не средние нагрузки на Атласах, а тяжелые спутники разведки, выводимые Delta 4 Heavy на ГСО.
    Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял. Ну, на крайняк можно склепать пару-тройку Тяжелых Дельт и выкрутиться из ситуации.  ::)
    Кто платить будет?
    Правительство сша. Ктож еще?
    А оно ему по большому надо?
    Пс - надо. И будет платить.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:45:01
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:09Да эти отличия это пшик для 95% нагрузок, которым пофиг сколько Вулкан может водород держать и 100% нагрузок которым пофиг 5 послабее или 4 помощнее гема весит на ракете. Это влияет на цену запуска на удешевление, но не кратно, да еще и BE-4 их не поддерживает. Может для каких ни будь научных миссий этот Центавр сыграет свою красивую роль, но это капля в море.
    Ну, ЮЛЯ как раз рассчитывает на большее количество пусков в сторону Луны и прочих планет. И там у них может и не быть (ну, или очень мало) конкурентов. Т.е., у ЮЛИ очень правильная стратегия: рассчитывают на будущее. не живут вчерашним днем и капитально модернизируют РН.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:46:43
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:56Кто платить будет?
    Я думаю ULA и USAF (или там уже SpacrCom) договорятся.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:47:18
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:45:01
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 10.02.2022 00:37:09Да эти отличия это пшик для 95% нагрузок, которым пофиг сколько Вулкан может водород держать и 100% нагрузок которым пофиг 5 послабее или 4 помощнее гема весит на ракете. Это влияет на цену запуска на удешевление, но не кратно, да еще и BE-4 их не поддерживает. Может для каких ни будь научных миссий этот Центавр сыграет свою красивую роль, но это капля в море.
    Ну, ЮЛЯ как раз рассчитывает на большее количество пусков в сторону Луны и прочих планет. И там у них может и не быть (ну, или очень мало) конкурентов. Т.е., у ЮЛИ очень правильная стратегия: рассчитывают на будущее. не живут вчерашним днем и капитально модернизируют РН.  ::)
    И тут возникает концептуальный вопрос.
    Нафига оно надо? (у того кто будет платить деньги за все ваши хотелки)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:49:38
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 00:38:48Вот ведь странно. В процветающем Амазон-предприятии Безоса с менеджментом все в порядке, а тут почему то все очень плохо. И у Маска, тоже понимаешь головы менеджеров летят. Может не в менеджменте дело?
    Дело в том, что там несколько разный менеджмент. Одно дело - менеджмент интернет торговли, другое дело - менеджмент разработки и производства РД и РН, улавливаете?  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51
    Цитата: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:47:18И тут возникает концептуальный вопрос.
    Нафига оно надо? (у того кто будет платить деньги за все ваши хотелки)
    Я понимаю, что вам лично это не надо. Поэтому вам никто ничего не предлагает. Но это надо НАСА, у них там есть планы, прожекты, перспективы и т.п. Эти планы, прожекты и перспективы потенциально могут стоить миллиарды. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:57:17
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял.
    https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/innovation-at-amazon/amazon-secures-united-launch-alliance-atlas-v-rockets-for-project-kuiper
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:02:53
    Цитата: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:30:39А если серьезно, то антимонопольные их законы. (ну и так вами любимая по этому поводу идеология) о которой вы почему то забываете. 
    ULA была же монополистом, и никто не разделял их. Наоборот, по наущению правительства и соединили. И это было в те времена, когда никакой конкуренции и "New Space" вообще не просматривалось.

    Сейчас же, с разнообразием всяких Rocket Lab, Relativity Space, Blue Origin, ULA, ABL, и т.д., разделять SpaceX никто не будет. Кроме того, спейсы и сами, без федералов, выведут Старлинк отдельной компанией на IPO.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:03:44
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:57:17
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял.
    https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/innovation-at-amazon/amazon-secures-united-launch-alliance-atlas-v-rockets-for-project-kuiper
    Я понял. И что там такого невыполнимого для Вулкана? Тем более, что первый пуск в 2024 (а следующие растянуты до 2029). Если до 2025 Вулкан не полетит, то ЮЛЮ ждут тяжелые времена. Это понятно. Но это маловероятно.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:07:19
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:49:38
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 00:38:48Вот ведь странно. В процветающем Амазон-предприятии Безоса с менеджментом все в порядке, а тут почему то все очень плохо. И у Маска, тоже понимаешь головы менеджеров летят. Может не в менеджменте дело?
    Дело в том, что там несколько разный менеджмент. Одно дело - менеджмент интернет торговли, другое дело - менеджмент разработки и производства РД и РН, улавливаете?  ::)
    Не улавливаю. И там, и там - МBA. Поясню: задача менеджера - оптимальная организация работы инженеров, оценка рисков (по результатам общения с ИТС), распределение ресурсов.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:08:13
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 00:38:48Вот ведь странно. В процветающем Амазон-предприятии Безоса с менеджментом все в порядке, а тут почему то все очень плохо. И у Маска, тоже понимаешь головы менеджеров летят. Может не в менеджменте дело?
    Головы летят, но при этом что в Тесле, что в СпХ все пучком. В одной компании вышли на миллион машин в год, с тенденцией к увеличению производства на 40-50%, в другой бьют рекорды по числу запусков и надежности.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:11:05
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:08:13В  другой бьют рекорды по числу запусков и надежности.
    Там были другие инженеры.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:12:02
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:03:44
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 00:57:17
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:23:37Про Безоса и Вулкан не понял.
    https://www.aboutamazon.com/news/innovation-at-amazon/amazon-secures-united-launch-alliance-atlas-v-rockets-for-project-kuiper
    Я понял. И что там такого невыполнимого для Вулкана? Тем более, что первый пуск в 2024 (а следующие растянуты до 2029). Если до 2025 Вулкан не полетит, то ЮЛЮ ждут тяжелые времена. Это понятно. Но это маловероятно.  ::)
    Так я и сказал, что спутники Амазона легко переведут с Атласов на Вулкан (тем более что пока нет тех спутников, и неизвестно когда они будут реально готовы).

    Мой поинт был в том, что высвобождение Атласов от этого кардинально проблемы не решит. Вулкан нужен в первую очередь как замена Дельте 4 Хэви. Все остальное легко возьмет на себя Фалкон.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:16:26
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:11:05
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:08:13В  другой бьют рекорды по числу запусков и надежности.
    Там были другие инженеры.
    В смысле - "там"(?) "были"(?)  Вот прямо сейчас запуски СпХ и производство какие-то другие инженеры поддерживают?  Или это опять ваша любимая песнь про Инженеров НАСА? Они всё еще по ночам, когда никого нет, помогают? И с Драконами тоже, и с Рапторами, и со Старлинком, и со Старшипом? 
    Да, и с Теслой, надо понимать, тоже всё они?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:16:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:07:19Поясню: задача менеджера - оптимальная организация работы инженеров, оценка рисков (по результатам общения с ИТС), распределение ресурсов.
    Понятно. Видимо такой чересчур формальный подход и приводит BO к задержкам и провалам. Видимо для разработки РД и РН нужны несколько другие подходы.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:17:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    см. AR-1
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:22:14
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:12:02Мой поинт был в том, что высвобождение Атласов от этого кардинально проблемы не решит. Вулкан нужен в первую очередь как замена Дельте 4 Хэви. Все остальное легко возьмет на себя Фалкон.
    Я понял ваш посыл (подачу) про Фалкон. Я не думаю, что кто-то всерьез переиграет пропорцию 60/40. Когда у нас последний пуск Дельта Хэви? В 2024? Ну, дык, я и говорю, что в 2024 Вулкан должен летать. И это, ИМХО, вполне реализуемо.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:22:22
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:16:26Они всё еще по ночам, когда никого нет, помогают?
    Зачем? У Маска достаточно грамотные инженеры, чтобы не испортить то, что сделали для них специалисты NASA.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:22:43
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:17:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    см. AR-1
    Где смотреть? Летает?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:27:08
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    Ну, про AR1 уже написали. ИМХО, если бы Бруно согласился на керосин, то USAF выделила бы бабло на завершение разработки AR1. И сейчас он был бы уже готов к летным испытаниям. Но Бруно захотелось экзотики и перспектив, поэтому он ждет BE-4, как соловей лета.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:37:35
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 01:27:08
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    Ну, про AR1 уже написали. ИМХО, если бы Бруно согласился на керосин, то USAF выделила бы бабло на завершение разработки AR1.
    Опыт BE-4 показывает, что  просто бабла недостаточно.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:43:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:22:43
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:17:30
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:10:14
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Сколько нужно стараться исполнителю, чтобы сделать РД-180, при условии что он в США?
    см. AR-1
    Где смотреть? Летает?
    То, что он не в серии не значит что его нет. ULA выбрала BE-4, и проект притормозили. Ну и в Штатах есть кому заняться керосином, от СпХ и Рокетлаба до Альфы, ABL, и Ursa Major. И всем, я надеюсь, Инженеры НАСА помогают ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:46:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:43:54Ну и в Штатах есть кому заняться керосином, от СпХ и Рокетлаба до Альфы, ABL, и Ursa Major. И всем, я надеюсь, Инженеры НАСА помогают ;)
    Кому - есть, а двигателей - нет. Инженеры НАСА помогают в меру своих компетенций. Тем, что не знают - помочь не могут.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:52:16
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:46:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:43:54Ну и в Штатах есть кому заняться керосином, от СпХ и Рокетлаба до Альфы, ABL, и Ursa Major. И всем, я надеюсь, Инженеры НАСА помогают ;)
    Кому - есть, а двигателей - нет. Инженеры НАСА помогают в меру своих компетенций. Тем, что не знают - помочь не могут.
    То есть, ни Электрон, ни Альфа, ни Launcher One не летают, а остальные ничего не испытывают уже на огневых стендах, с прицелом на запуск в ближайшее время?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:53:00
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:52:16
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:46:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:43:54Ну и в Штатах есть кому заняться керосином, от СпХ и Рокетлаба до Альфы, ABL, и Ursa Major. И всем, я надеюсь, Инженеры НАСА помогают ;)
    Кому - есть, а двигателей - нет. Инженеры НАСА помогают в меру своих компетенций. Тем, что не знают - помочь не могут.
    То есть, ни Электрон, ни Альфа, ни Launcher One не летают, а остальные ничего не испытывают уже на огневых стендах, с прицелом на запуск в ближайшее время?
    Это мелочь, мы говорим о больших напряженных двигателях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:58:46
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:53:00
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:52:16
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 01:46:37
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:43:54Ну и в Штатах есть кому заняться керосином, от СпХ и Рокетлаба до Альфы, ABL, и Ursa Major. И всем, я надеюсь, Инженеры НАСА помогают ;)
    Кому - есть, а двигателей - нет. Инженеры НАСА помогают в меру своих компетенций. Тем, что не знают - помочь не могут.
    То есть, ни Электрон, ни Альфа, ни Launcher One не летают, а остальные ничего не испытывают уже на огневых стендах, с прицелом на запуск в ближайшее время?
    Это мелочь, мы говорим о больших напряженных двигателях.
    Мелочь - не мелочь, а рынок легких ПН они аккуратно у других заберут. 
     
    Мерлин легко уделывает и Зенит, и его новую итерацию "Союз-5", не обладая большим напряженным двигателем. Там же, где эта технология оправдана, перешли на другиую топливную пару. И если верить Дмитрию Олеговичу, то будущее Роскосмоса тоже за метаном.
    А для начинающих свои путь американских стартапов, проектов движков на керосине более чем достаточно, для сохранения компетенций.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 02:03:45
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:58:46Мелочь - не мелочь, а рынок легких ПН они аккуратно у других заберут.
    Может и заберут что-то, но речь то была не о них, вы как то неуклюже соскочили.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 02:21:56
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 02:03:45
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:58:46Мелочь - не мелочь, а рынок легких ПН они аккуратно у других заберут.
    Может и заберут что-то, но речь то была не о них, вы как то неуклюже соскочили.
    Напомню, специально для вас: речь у нас про то, чем можно заменить Атлас с его РД-180.  Много чем, в том числе и "малышами". Да и Фалкон с ненапряжным Мерлином прекрасно его заменяет.  

    Кстати, может в Роскосмос Инженеров NASA (с) давно прислать надо было, еще когда Ангару и Русь замышляли, как думаете? А то наличие Большого Напряженного Двигателя как-то не является панацеей, правда? Вот на Ангаре он стоит, а ракета так себе получилась, да и летает не то чтоб часто :( 

    И с использованием РД-180 что-то у родного производителя никак не клеится. Была идея поставить его на Енисей, так Дмитрий Олегович сказали что с ним плохо получится, нужен метан и немножко многоразовости. Как так-то?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 03:17:14
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 02:21:56
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 02:03:45
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:58:46Мелочь - не мелочь, а рынок легких ПН они аккуратно у других заберут.
    Может и заберут что-то, но речь то была не о них, вы как то неуклюже соскочили.
    Напомню, специально для вас: речь у нас про то, чем можно заменить Атлас с его РД-180.  Много чем, в том числе и "малышами". Да и Фалкон с ненапряжным Мерлином прекрасно его заменяет. 
    C его тяжеленной второй ступенью, хилым двигателем второй ступени и одним ГО среднего размера? Не смешите.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 03:17:14
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 02:21:56
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 02:03:45
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 01:58:46Мелочь - не мелочь, а рынок легких ПН они аккуратно у других заберут.
    Может и заберут что-то, но речь то была не о них, вы как то неуклюже соскочили.
    Напомню, специально для вас: речь у нас про то, чем можно заменить Атлас с его РД-180.  Много чем, в том числе и "малышами". Да и Фалкон с ненапряжным Мерлином прекрасно его заменяет. 
    C его тяжеленной второй ступенью, хилым двигателем второй ступени и одним ГО среднего размера? Не смешите.
    GOES-R и GOES-S запускались на Атласе, GOES-U летит на FH (и за меньшие деньги).
    Х-37B запускался на Атласе, потом на F9.

    Спутники GPS-III переходят на F9, ПН для NRО, WorldView, и т.д. - всё то, что раньше на Атласах летало. USSF-52 массой свыше 6 тонн на ГПО, раньше полетел бы на Атласе-551, теперь на FH, USSF-44, USSF-67 (с увеличенным обтекателем и вертикальной сборкой, всё как вы просили), NROL-85, и т.д. 

    Тяжелые АМС типа Psyche - то же самое, Falcon Heavy, в августе уже этого года. Базовый модуль для Гейтвея - он же. Грузовые корабли для того же Гейтвея - опять он.

    Это вы не смешите. Я понимаю, что ОЧЕНЬ ХОТЦА еще заказик на РД-180, но - увы. Может приспособят куда-нибудь еще этот шедевр, на Союз-6, или 7, или как его там.

    Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 04:15:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится.
    Для этого есть ФХ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:23:25
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 04:15:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится.
    Для этого есть ФХ.
    И как там с ценами?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 05:22:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:23:25
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 04:15:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится.
    Для этого есть ФХ.
    И как там с ценами?
    Во-первых, цены на уровне того же Атласа или ниже. 
    Во-вторых, разве это когда-то было для военных проблемой?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 06:00:15
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 05:22:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:23:25
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 04:15:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится. Ну и насчет дешевизны - большие сомнения. Как мы знаем, военные пуски Ф-9 вполне сопоставимы с аналогичными на Атласе. Неужели ж FH будет дешевле? что-то с чем то не сходится.
    Для этого есть ФХ.
    И как там с ценами?
    Во-первых, цены на уровне того же Атласа или ниже.
    Во-вторых, разве это когда-то было для военных проблемой?
    Представьте себе, у них тоже есть бюджет. Но ваша логика мне нравится - лучше пускать четыре ракетных блока вместо двух, лишь бы не связываться с проклятыми русскими.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: fagot от 10.02.2022 06:25:45
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:20:06GEM-63XL имеет УИ на уровне моря 280 с, какой РДТТ может похвастаться таким УИ?
    Это вакуумный УИ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 06:49:57
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 06:00:15
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 05:22:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:23:25
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 04:15:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 04:13:10
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 03:58:54Так что, возвращаемся к обсуждению Вулкана и Дельты Хэви, или еще хотите про РД-180?
    Атлас кроет Фалкон-9 на отлетных орбитах, по причине существенно более высокой эффективности Центавра и RL-10. Можете даже на уши встать, ситуация от этого не изменится. Ну и насчет дешевизны - большие сомнения. Как мы знаем, военные пуски Ф-9 вполне сопоставимы с аналогичными на Атласе. Неужели ж FH будет дешевле? что-то с чем то не сходится.
    Для этого есть ФХ.
    И как там с ценами?
    Во-первых, цены на уровне того же Атласа или ниже.
    Во-вторых, разве это когда-то было для военных проблемой?
    Представьте себе, у них тоже есть бюджет. Но ваша логика мне нравится - лучше пускать четыре ракетных блока вместо двух, лишь бы не связываться с проклятыми русскими.
    Ваша куда завиральнее: «давайте платить за пуск больше, и попутно поддерживать военную корпорацию враждебной страны».
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 07:07:16
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 06:49:57поддерживать военную корпорацию враждебной страны».
    Сами создали себе врага, сами назло уши морозим. Помните, в 90-х - Россия предлагала вступить в NATO.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 07:13:17
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 07:07:16
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 06:49:57поддерживать военную корпорацию враждебной страны».
    Сами создали врага, сами назло уши морозим. Помните, в 90-х - Россия предлагала вступить в NATO.
    Да-да, конечно.
    Мы про замену Атласам, а то вас понесло куда-то не туда.
    да и уши никто не морозит, всё норм)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 07:22:08
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 07:13:17
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 07:07:16
    Цитата: Sam Grey от 10.02.2022 06:49:57поддерживать военную корпорацию враждебной страны».
    Сами создали врага, сами назло уши морозим. Помните, в 90-х - Россия предлагала вступить в NATO.
    Да-да, конечно.
    Мы про замену Атласам,
    Верно. Не нужно их менять пока нет достойной альтернативы. Угробище в виде ФХ не предлагать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Leonar от 10.02.2022 15:02:44
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 10.02.2022 00:53:51
    Цитата: Leonar от 10.02.2022 00:47:18И тут возникает концептуальный вопрос.
    Нафига оно надо? (у того кто будет платить деньги за все ваши хотелки)
    Я понимаю, что вам лично это не надо. Поэтому вам никто ничего не предлагает. Но это надо НАСА, у них там есть планы, прожекты, перспективы и т.п. Эти планы, прожекты и перспективы потенциально могут стоить миллиарды. Это вам не нищеброды из Роскосмоса. Поэтому исполнитель может постараться.  ::)
    Не только лишь роскосмос может пилить, но и больше другие?  ;D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 16.02.2022 21:13:09
    https://www.waff.com/2022/02/14/union-representing-ula-workers-gets-historic-100-strike-sanction-vote/
    ЦитироватьUnion representing ULA workers gets historic 100% strike sanction vote
    DECATUR, Ala. (WAFF) - WAFF 48 News is following the fallout of United Launch Alliance's swift enforcement of the vaccine mandate. Now, the worker's union is preparing for contract negotiation and for the first time in history, every single member voted yes to the strike sanction vote.

    Every three or four years, the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local Lodge 44 Union negotiates a contract with United Launch Alliance. Union members vote ahead of time with the intent to see who is willing to go on strike if they can't reach a fair contract. Union President David Story says usually 90 percent or more vote 'yes.' This time every single member said yes.

    He says they feel taken advantage of. "Roughly two decades we have made concessions on every contract," said Story. "We've given up pension, retiree healthcare, in some classification, we've agreed to a $20 per hour pay cut in the last contract to stay competitive with Space X..."
    Забастовка?!  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 16.02.2022 22:19:11
    Цитата: zandr от 16.02.2022 21:13:09for the first time in history, every single member voted yes to the strike sanction vote.
    Всех и каждого задолбало ковидобесие в дополнение к старым проблемам.

    Будут забастовки если ЮЛА отклонит требования профсоюза.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 19.02.2022 12:04:09
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.02.2022 07:22:08Верно. Не нужно их менять пока нет достойной альтернативы. Угробище в виде ФХ не предлагать.
    "Угробище" запустит очередную Великую обсерваторию НАСА, главный маркетолог поднял лапки к верху.

    Ну и как вишенка их проблем. Недоплата своим работникам, отказ от мед страховок и пенсий экономил им порядка 160-250 млн в год. При 6 пусках в год экономия была в среднем 30-40 млн за один пуск. То есть реальный ценник атлас 5 идет от 150-160 млн в самой бюджетной версии. То есть полугосударственные монополисты заставили своих работников заплатить им дважды. Сначала со своих зарплат и соц привилегий, а потом еще со своих налогов, потому что они запускают только гос пн.
    Так что никаких вулканов за 100 млн не будет. Вопрос только в том, когда действительно реальное гос угробище перестанет существовать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 12:51:57
    Вы так говорите, будто у Маска нет буквально тех же проблем. Вот недавно трубили про переработки и низкие ЗП. Эти профсоюзные терки это национальный вид спорта.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 19.02.2022 17:17:23
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 12:51:57Вы так говорите, будто у Маска нет буквально тех же проблем. Вот недавно трубили про переработки и низкие ЗП. Эти профсоюзные терки это национальный вид спорта.
    Так у них нет профсоюза.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 20:08:31
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 19.02.2022 17:17:23
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 12:51:57Вы так говорите, будто у Маска нет буквально тех же проблем. Вот недавно трубили про переработки и низкие ЗП. Эти профсоюзные терки это национальный вид спорта.
    Так у них нет профсоюза.
    Разумно, не правда ли? Но от нытья работников это не помогает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 20.02.2022 00:16:36
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 20:08:31
    Цитата: renegade2000 от 19.02.2022 17:17:23
    Цитата: Blackhavvk от 19.02.2022 12:51:57Вы так говорите, будто у Маска нет буквально тех же проблем. Вот недавно трубили про переработки и низкие ЗП. Эти профсоюзные терки это национальный вид спорта.
    Так у них нет профсоюза.
    Разумно, не правда ли? Но от нытья работников это не помогает.
    Нытье то раздувают журнализды. Все кто недоволен, спокойно уходит в другие компании, где послаще. В Астре их кстати немало, да и в тот же Лохкид перешло предостаточно, кто свои стартапы запускает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 26.02.2022 08:36:02
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1497243316559257645?cxt=HHwW2oC9naO3o8cpAAAA
    Цитировать(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/45842.jpg)
    Tory Bruno @torybruno

    I accelerated the delivery of the last RD180s. We have all that are required for the Atlas fly-out in hand, stored at the Rocket Factory in Decatur Alabama

    ЦитироватьBoring Geek🇺🇦@_BoringandUgly

    Hey @torybruno  what about engines for Atlas V , considering latest developments in Sanctions on Russia.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 26.02.2022 08:56:46
    Бруно ответил что гугл перевод
    Цитата: undefinedhttps://spacenews.com/ukraine-impact-on-u-s-russia-space-cooperation/

    Atlas 5 rockets continue to rely on RD-180 engines, but ULA has all the RD-180s it needs for its remaining Atlas launches. ULA CEO Tory Bruno said Feb. 25 that ULA and propulsion partner Aerojet Rocketdyne have enough RD-180 expertise in-house to keep Atlas 5 flying without access to Energomash, the Russian company that built the engines under the RD-Amross joint venture with the former Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne.

    "Been flying them for many years, lots of experience," Bruno said via Twitter. "Also, I have personal experience in flying other people's rockets without their support, which informs my confidence."

    Цитата: undefinedРакеты Atlas 5 по-прежнему используют двигатели РД-180, но у ULA есть все РД-180, необходимые для оставшихся запусков Atlas. Генеральный директор ULA Тори Бруно заявил 25 февраля, что ULA и ее партнер Aerojet Rocketdyne имеют достаточно собственных знаний по РД-180, чтобы поддерживать полеты Atlas 5 без доступа к Энергомашу, российской компании, которая построила двигатели в рамках совместного предприятия RD-Amross с бывший Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne.

    «Летал на них много лет, большой опыт», — сказал Бруно в Twitter . «Кроме того, у меня есть личный опыт полетов на чужих ракетах без их поддержки, что вселяет в меня уверенность».

    источник
    Цитата: undefinedhttps://twitter.com/planet4589/status/1497271416798035970
    10:04 PM · 25 февр. 2022 г.
    Question for @ToryBruno:  my understanding is that you have all the RD-180 expertise neeed in house (between ULA and AJR) and don't need the availablity of Energomash experts to launch the ones you have - correct? (I find this slightly surprising tbh)


    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1497272527206424584
    10:09 PM · 25 февр. 2022 г.
    Yes.  Been flying them for many years, lots of experience.  Also, I have personal experience in flying other people's rockets without their support, which informs my confidence.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Pirat5 от 28.02.2022 19:35:26
    Цитировать
    United Launch Alliance заявила в пятницу, что вторжение России в Украину не повлияет на ракетную программу компании Atlas 5, которая до выхода на пенсию должна выполнить 25 миссий с маршевыми двигателями российского производства.
    Вот разбивка оставшихся миссий Atlas 5:
    • 9 коммерческих миссий для интернет-сети Amazon Kuiper.
    • 8 миссий капсулы экипажа Boeing Starliner.
    • 4 миссии для космических сил США.
    • 2 миссии с метеорологическими спутниками для NASA и NOAA.
    • 1 коммерческая миссия для Viasat
    • 1 коммерческая миссия для SES
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/25/ula-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-wont-impact-remaining-atlas-5-missions/ (https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/25/ula-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-wont-impact-remaining-atlas-5-missions/)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Pirat5 от 28.02.2022 20:15:43
    ...25 миссий, включая завтрашнюю
    Цитата: undefinedAtlas-5(541)  x       5S  CC  01.03.2022    GOES T (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/goes-r.htm)
    Atlas-5(541)  x        5  CC  xx.04.2022    WFOV (USSF 12) (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/wfov.htm) / (small sats)
    Atlas-5(N22)  AV-082/5 -  CC  20.05.2022    Starliner OFT-2 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/starliner.htm)
    Atlas-5(421)  AV-097  4L  CC  xx.06.2022    SBIRS-GEO 6 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/sbirs-geo-5.htm)
    Atlas-5(401)  x       4M  Va  30.09.2022    JPSS-2 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/jpss-2.htm) / LOFTID (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/loftid.htm) / Athena (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/athena_nasa.htm)
    Atlas-5(531)  x        5  CC  xx.2H.2022    SES 20 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/ses-20.htm) / SES 21 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/ses-20.htm)
    Atlas-5(551)  x        5  CC  xx.4Q.2022    ViaSat 3 EMEA (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/viasat-3.htm)
    Atlas-5(xx1)  x        5  CC  xx.xx.2022    USSF 51
    Atlas-5(551)  x        5  CC  xx.xx.2022    Silent Barker (NROL 107) (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/silentbarker.htm)

    Atlas-5(N22)  x        -  CC  xx.1H.2023    Starliner CFT (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/starliner.htm)
    Atlas-5(N22)  x        -  CC  xx.xx.202x    Starliner 1...6 (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/starliner.htm)
    Atlas-5(55x)  x        5  CC  xx.xx.202x    KuiperSat  9 launches
    https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/atlas-5.htm (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/atlas-5.htm)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 01.03.2022 06:40:07
    Рогозин иронизирует над специалистами ULA.  ::)
    https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1498375236592582661 (https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1498375236592582661)

    Цитата: undefined"В США приготовились использовать РД-180 без России"...

    Надеюсь, "подход к снаряду" будет успешным. Наш двигатель использовался американцами 96 раз, все пуски успешные, статистика успеха уникальна. Но это при том, что наши специалисты из "Энергомаша" сопровождали эти пуски,...
    Цитата: undefinedобеспечивали их техническую поддержку. Скоро компания "Боинг", дважды облажавшаяся со своим новым пилотируемым кораблём "Starliner", затаив дыхание, в третий раз выйдет на лётные испытания.
    Цитата: undefinedВыводиться в космос этот корабль будет на ракете "Atlas 5" с нашим маршевым двигателем РД-180 на первой ступени. Но уже без надзора наших спецов. Что ж, помолимся за наших американских друзей!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 01.03.2022 07:13:43
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 01.03.2022 06:40:07Рогозин иронизирует над специалистами ULA.  ::)
    https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1498375236592582661 (https://twitter.com/Rogozin/status/1498375236592582661)
    есть телега которая работает у большинства россиян
    Цитироватьhttps://t .me/rogozin_do/1774
    50.3K viewsedited  23:03
    "В США приготовились использовать РД-180 без России"...

    Надеюсь, "подход к снаряду" будет успешным. Наш двигатель использовался американцами 96 раз, все пуски успешные, статистика успеха уникальна. Но это при том, что наши специалисты из "Энергомаша" сопровождали эти пуски, обеспечивали их техническую поддержку. Скоро компания "Боинг", дважды облажавшаяся со своим новым пилотируемым кораблём "Starliner", затаив дыхание, в третий раз выйдет на лётные испытания. Выводиться в космос этот корабль будет на ракете "Atlas 5" с нашим маршевым двигателем РД-180 на первой ступени. Но уже без надзора наших спецов. Что ж, помолимся за наших американских друзей!
    https://m.lenta.ru/news/2022/02/28/rd180/
    что интересно другие сообщения по космосу не переваливают за 10К, хотя про Куру перевалило за 223К
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 02.03.2022 22:49:56
    Кстати, следуя логике Рогозина про "уникальную надёжность РД-180", можно сказать, что у ТТУшек Атласа-то она вообще запредельная, что РД-180 и не снилась!

    У него было как минимум одно преждевременное отключение, когда всю миссию вытянул Центавр.

    А вот ТТУшек на ракете несколько, и для той же статистики они должны быть в несколько раз надёжнее!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 04:50:33
    Цитата: triage от 01.03.2022 07:13:43что интересно другие сообщения по космосу не переваливают за 10К, хотя про Куру перевалило за 223К
    Это у вас профессиональный интерес, к импакту?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 04:51:50
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 02.03.2022 22:49:56Кстати, следуя логике Рогозина про "уникальную надёжность РД-180", можно сказать, что у ТТУшек Атласа-то она вообще запредельная, что РД-180 и не снилась!
    Логика может быть вполне обоснованной. Если (если) у РД-180 есть некие недокументированные регулировки, то вечер может оказаться томным.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 08:09:29
    Ирония Рогозина в адрес специалистов ULA оказалась неуместной. Atlas V успешно вывел спутник GOES-T.  ::)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 08:26:46
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 08:09:29Ирония Рогозина в адрес специалистов ULA оказалась неуместной. Atlas V успешно вывел спутник GOES-T.  ::)
    Что подтверждает надежность двигателя даже в кривых руках.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 03.03.2022 09:54:32
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 08:09:29Ирония Рогозина в адрес специалистов ULA оказалась неуместной. Atlas V успешно вывел спутник GOES-T.  ::)
    он иронировал в рамках Старлайнера и пилотируемых запусков в рамках МКС
    Цитироватьскоро компания "Боинг", дважды облажавшаяся со своим новым пилотируемым кораблём "Starliner", затаив дыхание, в третий раз выйдет на лётные испытания. Выводиться в космос этот корабль будет на ракете "Atlas 5" с нашим маршевым двигателем РД-180 на первой ступени. Но уже без надзора наших спецов. Что ж, помолимся за наших американских друзей!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:47:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 08:26:46Что подтверждает надежность двигателя даже в кривых руках.
    Это всего лишь подтверждает высокую квалификацию и прямые руки специалистов ULA. И высокую надежность РН Atlas V в целом.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:52:53
    Цитата: triage от 03.03.2022 09:54:32он иронировал в рамках Старлайнера и пилотируемых запусков в рамках МКС
    Там речь шла вообще о том, что смогут ли американцы запускать Атласы без российских специалистов по РД-180. Оказалось, смогут. Атласу-то все равно, что выводить, Старлайнер, спутник или АМС.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Raul от 03.03.2022 13:10:20
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:52:53
    Цитата: triage от 03.03.2022 09:54:32он иронировал в рамках Старлайнера и пилотируемых запусков в рамках МКС
    Там речь шла вообще о том, что смогут ли американцы запускать Атласы без российских специалистов по РД-180. Оказалось, смогут. Атласу-то все равно, что выводить, Старлайнер, спутник или АМС.
    Смогут - то они смогут... да как бы статистику не испортили. На РД-180 надо делать российский супертяж. А если его пару раз бабахнут с каким-нибудь секретным ГВМ, то наши випы окончательно переопределятся на их нетрадиционный метан.

    Может быть, раз американцы теперь плохие и Маск - вредное чо, то хватит нам им взад смотреть?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 03.03.2022 13:40:23
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:52:53
    Цитата: triage от 03.03.2022 09:54:32он иронировал в рамках Старлайнера и пилотируемых запусков в рамках МКС
    Там речь шла вообще о том, что смогут ли американцы запускать Атласы без российских специалистов по РД-180.
    Бруно говорил просто про запуски.
    Рогозин написал что по пилотируемому космосу - сами, он по пилотируемому тоже разрывает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:47:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 08:26:46Что подтверждает надежность двигателя даже в кривых руках.
    Это всего лишь подтверждает высокую квалификацию и прямые руки специалистов ULA. И высокую надежность РН Atlas V в целом.
    Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Raul от 03.03.2022 17:20:36
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 03.03.2022 10:47:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 08:26:46Что подтверждает надежность двигателя даже в кривых руках.
    Это всего лишь подтверждает высокую квалификацию и прямые руки специалистов ULA. И высокую надежность РН Atlas V в целом.
    Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.
    Не руки. Извилины.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 17:31:01
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.
    Аэроджет Рокитдайн прорабатывал АР-1, двумя АР-1 можно заменить РД-180 или ДУ из двух РД-181. Газик под него испытали. Вроде, даже макет сделали. Но не думаю, что настолько будут заморачиваться и доделывать АР-1 до огня и эксплуатации.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:45:09
    Цитата: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 17:31:01
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.
    Аэроджет Рокитдайн прорабатывал АР-1, двумя АР-1 можно заменить РД-180 или ДУ из двух РД-181. Газик под него испытали. Вроде, даже макет сделали. Но не думаю, что настолько будут заморачиваться и доделывать АР-1 до огня и эксплуатации.
    Для BE-4 тоже макеты есть. Проблемы возникают при попытке дотянуть характеристики до проектных.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 17:47:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:45:09Для BE-4 тоже макеты есть.
    БЕ-4 уже вовсю на стендах жужжит.

    А АР-1 пока на стенде испытания отдельных агрегатов. Т. е. просто до огня - явно больше года.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:56:45
    Цитата: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 17:47:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:45:09Для BE-4 тоже макеты есть.
    БЕ-4 уже вовсю на стендах жужжит.
    Жужжит, да не дотягивает, или стабильности нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 18:03:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:56:45Жужжит, да не дотягивает, или стабильности нет.
    Повторюсь - главное, работает. А уж доводка двигателя до заданных показателей качества и надёжности - дело времени. АР-1 же пока на этапе автономных испытаний и до огня ему очень далеко, даже если начать работы "здесь и сейчас".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 18:12:16
    Цитата: C-300-2 от 03.03.2022 18:03:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 17:56:45Жужжит, да не дотягивает, или стабильности нет.
    Повторюсь - главное, работает.
    его задача не работать, а летать, причем уже сейчас. Если доводка потребует еще пять лет, то он никому не нужен.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 03.03.2022 18:29:03
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.

    RS-68 спокойно заменяет РД-180, как Дельта заменяет Атлас.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:09:40
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 03.03.2022 18:29:03
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.

    RS-68 спокойно заменяет РД-180, как Дельта заменяет Атлас.
    Это если деньги не считать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 03.03.2022 19:17:04
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:09:40
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 03.03.2022 18:29:03
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.

    RS-68 спокойно заменяет РД-180, как Дельта заменяет Атлас.
    Это если деньги не считать.
    Это как раз не принципиально для редко-летающих рает. Зато "независимый доступ"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 03.03.2022 19:17:04
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:09:40
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 03.03.2022 18:29:03
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 16:58:23Однако ж с двигателями на замену РД-180 проблема. Видимо руки слишком прямые.

    RS-68 спокойно заменяет РД-180, как Дельта заменяет Атлас.
    Это если деньги не считать.
    Это как раз не принципиально для редко-летающих рает. Зато "независимый доступ"
    У NASA есть сомнения.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 04.03.2022 09:06:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 18:12:16его задача не работать, а летать, причем уже сейчас. Если доводка потребует еще пять лет, то он никому не нужен.
    А с чего бы вдруг для доводки потребуется 5 лет? Обещают в этом году. Кстати, как там успехи у Энергомаша в разработке метанового РД? Будет летать через 5 лет? Непросто сделать новый двигатель с нуля.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 04.03.2022 10:33:27
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 18:12:16его задача не работать, а летать, причем уже сейчас. Если доводка потребует еще пять лет, то он никому не нужен.
    Поэтому-то АР-1 доведут мгновенно, да?  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 04.03.2022 10:48:13
    Цитата: C-300-2 от 04.03.2022 10:33:27Поэтому-то АР-1 доведут мгновенно, да?  (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/Smileys/fugue/wink.png)
    Увы, AR-1 уже не доведут никогда. В 2018 году ULA отказалась от использования AR-1 в пользу BE-4. Поэтому финансирование работ по AR-1 было прекращено, а сами работы остановлены.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 21:02:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27У NASA есть сомнения.

    А они-то тут причём?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 04.03.2022 21:28:09
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 21:02:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27У NASA есть сомнения.

    А они-то тут причём?
    Им Атлас нужен на отлетных траекториях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: A. Gamov от 04.03.2022 21:31:05
    Цитата: nonconvex от 04.03.2022 21:28:09
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 21:02:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27У NASA есть сомнения.

    А они-то тут причём?
    Им Атлас нужен на отлетных траекториях.
    А какие миссии АМС сейчас в подвешенном состоянии из-за введенных санкций?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 22:20:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 04.03.2022 21:28:09
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 21:02:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27У NASA есть сомнения.
    А они-то тут причём?
    Им Атлас нужен на отлетных траекториях.

    Большая часть пусков проводится на ГСО по заказу NROL или USAF, NASA тут второстепенный заказчик.

    А тут ничего круче Delta IV Heavy/Falcon Heavy нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: AlexandrU от 04.03.2022 22:50:29
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 04.03.2022 10:48:13Увы, AR-1 уже не доведут никогда. В 2018 году ULA отказалась от использования AR-1 в пользу BE-4...
    Дизельный РД для матрасной космической промышленности штука революционная и нужная. Роды идут долго, дорого, сложно и процесс не особо освещается, но идут. (https://twitter.com/AerojetRdyne/status/1348992893051154432)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 04.03.2022 23:39:35
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 22:20:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 04.03.2022 21:28:09
    Цитата: Верный Союзник с Окинавы от 04.03.2022 21:02:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.03.2022 19:24:27У NASA есть сомнения.
    А они-то тут причём?
    Им Атлас нужен на отлетных траекториях.

    Большая часть пусков проводится на ГСО по заказу NROL или USAF, NASA тут второстепенный заказчик.

    А тут ничего круче Delta IV Heavy/Falcon Heavy нет.
    Это разные ведомства, и у каждого свой бюджет. Крутую Дельту NASA не тянет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 05.03.2022 07:37:10
    Цитата: AlexandrU от 04.03.2022 22:50:29
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 04.03.2022 10:48:13Увы, AR-1 уже не доведут никогда. В 2018 году ULA отказалась от использования AR-1 в пользу BE-4...
    Дизельный РД для матрасной космической промышленности штука революционная и нужная. Роды идут долго, дорого, сложно и процесс не особо освещается, но идут. (https://twitter.com/AerojetRdyne/status/1348992893051154432)
    Скорее всего, это макет. Не более того. Не будет AR вкладывать в доработку AR-1 с неясными перспективами сотни миллионов своих денег. Вот если кто-нибудь (USSF, NASA) профинансирует эту доработку, то AR-1 сможет заиграть новыми красками.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 05.03.2022 17:25:36
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 05.03.2022 07:37:10Вот если кто-нибудь (USSF, NASA) профинансирует эту доработку, то AR-1 сможет заиграть новыми красками.
    Или не сможет.

    "Деньги у нас есть!"
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 05.03.2022 17:37:17
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 04.03.2022 10:48:13
    Цитата: C-300-2 от 04.03.2022 10:33:27Поэтому-то АР-1 доведут мгновенно, да?  (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/Smileys/fugue/wink.png)
    Увы, AR-1 уже не доведут никогда. В 2018 году ULA отказалась от использования AR-1 в пользу BE-4. Поэтому финансирование работ по AR-1 было прекращено, а сами работы остановлены.
    AR-1 в железе всё же сделали. Если в нём нет крупных ошибок, могли бы и довести в разумные сроки. Кстати, одно время его на Firefly Beta сватали. Поскольку с Украиной "всё", не исключаю варианта возврата к этому варианту.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 05.03.2022 17:42:38
    Цитата: nonconvex от 05.03.2022 17:25:36Или не сможет.

    "Деньги у нас есть!"
    Ну, какие проблемы? Если денег дадут на доводку и испытания, то сможет. Куда он денется? Кстати, будет интересно сравнить его реально достигнутые характеристики с РД-180. Кстати, вот тут Aerojet Rocketdyne completes assembly of its first AR1 rocket engine (https://spacenews.com/aerojet-rocketdyne-completes-assembly-of-its-first-ar1-rocket-engine/) пишут:

    Цитата: undefinedCongress in the 2021 defense bill allocated $15 million for the testing of large kerosene engines at Stennis. The funds are not specifically earmarked for the AR1. Maser said the company hopes the funds will be used to test its new engine.
    Так что, может быть AR-1 еще пыхнет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 05.03.2022 17:45:26
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 05.03.2022 17:37:17AR-1 в железе всё же сделали. Если в нём нет крупных ошибок, могли бы и довести в разумные сроки.
    Ну, вроде сделали год назад. Я привел ссылку в предыдущем посте. Хотят денег на испытания.

    Цитата: undefinedThe AR1 was assembled at Aerojet Rocketdyne's large engine assembly facility at NASA's Stennis Space Center, Mississippi. "The next step is to get it tested," Aerojet's senior vice president Jim Maser told SpaceNews Jan. 11.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/45979.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 05.03.2022 18:20:15
    Цитата: Quetzalcoatl от 05.03.2022 17:42:38
    Цитата: nonconvex от 05.03.2022 17:25:36Или не сможет.

    "Деньги у нас есть!"
    Ну, какие проблемы? Если денег дадут на доводку и испытания, то сможет. Куда он денется?
    Проблемы во второй части цитаты. Напомнить?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: triage от 06.03.2022 11:43:36
    Цитата: Pirat5 от 28.02.2022 19:35:26
    Цитировать
    United Launch Alliance заявила в пятницу, что вторжение России в Украину не повлияет на ракетную программу компании Atlas 5, которая до выхода на пенсию должна выполнить 25 миссий с маршевыми двигателями российского производства.
    Вот разбивка оставшихся миссий Atlas 5:
    • 9 коммерческих миссий для интернет-сети Amazon Kuiper.
    • 8 миссий капсулы экипажа Boeing Starliner.
    • 4 миссии для космических сил США.
    • 2 миссии с метеорологическими спутниками для NASA и NOAA.
    • 1 коммерческая миссия для Viasat
    • 1 коммерческая миссия для SES
    https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/25/ula-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-wont-impact-remaining-atlas-5-missions/ (https://spaceflightnow.com/2022/02/25/ula-says-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-wont-impact-remaining-atlas-5-missions/)
    не удивлюсь если в реальности военных спутников будет больше чем в этом списке, т.к. поставленной цели "ограничить планирование военных спутников на Атласе-5 т.к. Россия, Рогозин, могут запретить поставки в США" достигли. Сейчас поставки запрещены, значит от Рогозина зависимости нет. Так же этот список нагрузок писался до таких резких перемен, сейчас у военных могут возникнуть потребности в более раннем пополнении группировки. Если пофлеймить - как там X-37B поживает.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: A. Gamov от 07.03.2022 18:03:41
    Цитата: triage от 06.03.2022 11:43:36Если пофлеймить - как там X-37B поживает.

    Так X-37B уже прекрасно запускали на Falcon 9 (OTV-5). В чем проблема?)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Quetzalcoatl от 12.03.2022 10:00:23
    Кстати, совсем недавно (пару-тройку недель назад) Тори Бруно с оптимизмом высказался о BE-4 и грозился запустить Вулкан  в этом году.
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1496126398905581570 (https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1496126398905581570)

    Цитата: undefinedIn Blue's production factory getting built. So far so good. Qual testing in parallel. Gazillion seconds of run time and starts. Better performance than I expected. Supports Vulcan flying this year
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 25.03.2022 08:18:50
    https://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/news/83150/
    ЦитироватьUnited Launch Alliance намерена провести в текущем году первый пуск ракеты Vulcan Centaur
    Компания United Launch Alliance объявила о том, что она по прежнему рассчитывает провести первый пуск ракеты Vulcan Centaur в текущем году, пишет Ecoruspace. При этом в компании решили не конкретизировать дату пуска и ограничиться заявлением согласно которому все будет зависеть от испытаний двигателя BE-4. При этом первые две летные модели BE-4 в United Launch Alliance планируют получить уже в середине этого года, а рассмотрение альтернативы в качестве двигателя Aerojet Rocketdyne AR1 в United Launch Alliance было прекращено. Последнее связано с тем, что поскольку этот двигатель использует не метан, а керосин, то это потребует внесения в конструкцию блока существенных изменений.

    В тоже самое время в Blue Origin заявили, что они несмотря на прогресс с BE-4 все-таки не будут осуществлять в этом году первый пуск ракеты New Glenn. К прогрессу в разработке ракеты в компании отнесли то, что сейчас уже завершена проверка конструкции, а обтекатель проходит испытания на огайском полигоне NASA Армстронг (Огайо).
    А.Ж.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 25.03.2022 14:48:56
    Цитата: zandr от 25.03.2022 08:18:50Компания United Launch Alliance объявила о том, что она по прежнему рассчитывает провести первый пуск ракеты Vulcan Centaur в текущем году, пишет Ecoruspace.

    Тогда уже должен быть готов корпус ракеты уже. Показывали?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 25.03.2022 16:21:09
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 25.03.2022 14:48:56
    Цитата: zandr от 25.03.2022 08:18:50Компания United Launch Alliance объявила о том, что она по прежнему рассчитывает провести первый пуск ракеты Vulcan Centaur в текущем году, пишет Ecoruspace.

    Тогда уже должен быть готов корпус ракеты уже. Показывали?
    Конечно. Ещё в пролом году.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 25.03.2022 16:41:35
    Погуглил. Попалось вот:

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 25.03.2022 17:52:16
    Руководитель разработки двигателей в Blue Origin покинул компанию (https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/03/the-manager-of-blue-origins-rocket-engine-program-has-left-the-company/).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 25.03.2022 20:17:13
    Некоторые подробности из вышеупомянутой статьи.

    Цитата: undefinedВо время своего пребывания в должности Вилья нанял в качестве своего заместителя Линду Кова. Она будет руководить, по крайней мере на временной основе, группой разработчиков двигателей в Blue Origin. Линда пришла в компанию в 2021 году после 35 лет работы над различными программами разработки двигателей в Aerojet Rocketdyne. В числе своих обязанностей она руководила разработкой двигателя AR1, который проиграл двигателю BE-4 в конкурсе, проводимом United Launch Alliance для своей новой ракеты Vulcan.
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/191519.jpg)
    Интервью с Линдой Кова, 2015 г. (https://spacenews.com/qa-with-linda-cova-of-aerojet-rocketdyne/)

    Цитата: undefinedСогласно источникам компании, первые два лётных двигателя BE-4 находятся в стадии завершения производства на заводе Blue Origin в Кенте, штат Вашингтон. Первый из этих двигателей планируется отправить на испытательный полигон в мае для проведения "приемочных испытаний", чтобы обеспечить его готовность к полёту. Второй должен последовать за ним в разумно короткие сроки. В соответствии с этим графиком Blue Origin, возможно, сможет доставить оба летных двигателя в United Launch Alliance в июне или июле.
    ...
    Выступая во вторник на конференции Satellite 2022 в округе Колумбия, генеральный директор United Launch Alliance Тори Бруно заявил, что по-прежнему ожидает, что дебютный запуск Vulcan состоится в 2022 году. Однако поставка двигателей в летнее время означает очень плотный график для United Launch Alliance.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 26.03.2022 08:00:21
    Цитата: Arzach от 25.03.2022 20:17:13В соответствии с этим графиком Blue Origin, возможно, сможет
    Хайли лайкли. Джонсона на них нет!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 06.04.2022 07:50:25
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    With the addition of up to six solid rocket boosters, #VulcanRocket is available in four standard offering configurations. Congrats @kyle_LTS on the correct response!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 07.04.2022 19:28:42
    Цитата: Stimbergi от 07.04.2022 08:52:37
    ЦитироватьОператоры прокомментировали контракты с Amazon

    Руководитель United Launch Alliance (ULA) сделал заявление согласно которому:
    1. Заключение пускового контракта с Amazon позволяет существенно нарастить объемы производства ракет Вулкан. Кроме того он положительно повлияет и на развитие наземной инфраструктуры.
    2. Россия больше не вернется на западный рынок пусковых услуг.
    3. Хотя ULA и не смогла помочь OneWeb с быстрым возвратом к выведению космических аппаратов, тем не менее, начиная с 2024 года, она готова оказывать ей услуги.
    4. В будущем военные США будут заинтересованы в "пусках по требованию".
    5. В настоящий момент времени ULA ориентирована на производство от 20 до 25 ракет Вулкан ежегодно. При это для достижения этой возможности придется развивать производственные возможности не только головного изготовителя, но и кооперации. Например, придется нарастить возможности Aerojet Rocketdyne (в части производства двигателей RL10) и Northrop Grumman (в части боковых твердотопливных ускорителей).
    6. Относительно возможности ракет Вулкан по выведению полезных нагрузок Бруно отметил, что они позволят выводить по 45 аппаратов за пуск, а всего они выведут до 1710 спутников Amazon Kuiper.

    В тоже самое время руководитель Arianespace отметил, что контракт на 18 пусков с Amazon не требует кардинального наращивания производства ракет Ариан-6. В основном это связано с тем, что компания заложила в свои планы возможность ежегодного производства 11-12 ракет, а ее расположенный во Французской Гвиане стартовый комплекс будет обеспечивать до 20 пусков в год. С другой стороны руководитель Arinespace отметил, что для выведения, при помощи одного пуска ракеты Ариан-6, от 35 до 40 аппаратов Kuiper придется заняться усовершенствованием боковых твердотопливных ускорителей (модернизированная версия получит наименование P120C+).
    aboutspacejornal.net (https://aboutspacejornal.net/2022/04/07/%D0%BE%D0%BF%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%8B-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%BC%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BA/)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 07.04.2022 21:46:15
    Цитата: zandr от 07.04.2022 19:28:42В настоящий момент времени ULA ориентирована на производство от 20 до 25 ракет Вулкан ежегодно.

    Пфф! Пупок развяжется у черепашек ULA.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 26.04.2022 22:25:40
    Тори Бруно вот пишет, что это лётные экземпляры BE-4, направляющиеся на сборочный стенд.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/48830.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: renegade2000 от 27.04.2022 00:04:40
    Второе пришествие не иначе, авось в начале следующего года осилят наконец.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 27.04.2022 03:29:51
    Цитировать3. Хотя ULA и не смогла помочь OneWeb с быстрым возвратом к выведению космических аппаратов, тем не менее, начиная с 2024 года, она готова оказывать ей услуги.
    Понимаю необходимость дублирования, но всё же это будет прикольно выглядеть рядом с регулярными запусками Старшипа. Напоминаю, 2025 год - Артемис-3, возвращение на Луну.
       

       

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Просто Василий от 27.04.2022 18:03:55
    Цитата: Arzach от 26.04.2022 22:25:40Тори Бруно вот пишет, что это лётные экземпляры BE-4, направляющиеся на сборочный стенд.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/48830.jpg)
    Три штуки? Много ;D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 03:47:48нашел мужик в поле репу
    После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 23:36:55
    Цитата: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 03:47:48нашел мужик в поле репу
    После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    А после того, как НЕ начнет, во что она превратится, в шляпу?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 00:21:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 23:36:55
    Цитата: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    А после того, как НЕ начнет, во что она превратится, в шляпу?
    Ну-ну... Пресловутые "инженеры НАСА" считают, что Старшип будет летать, но ты хочешь жрать каменную шляпу?
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 02:40:35
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 00:21:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 23:36:55
    Цитата: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    А после того, как НЕ начнет, во что она превратится, в шляпу?
    Ну-ну... Пресловутые "инженеры НАСА" считают, что Старшип будет летать, но ты хочешь жрать каменную шляпу?
     

    Инженеры НАСА сделали хорошую ракету Фалкон-9.Насчет стальных бочек вам нужно обращаться в водоканал.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 29.04.2022 04:15:27
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 02:40:35
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 00:21:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 23:36:55
    Цитата: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    А после того, как НЕ начнет, во что она превратится, в шляпу?
    Ну-ну... Пресловутые "инженеры НАСА" считают, что Старшип будет летать, но ты хочешь жрать каменную шляпу?
     

    Инженеры НАСА сделали хорошую ракету Фалкон-9.Насчет стальных бочек вам нужно обращаться в водоканал.
    А почему у этих инженеров SLS не получается? Куда обращаться?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 04:45:10
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 04:15:27А почему у этих инженеров SLS не получается? Куда обращаться?
    Почему не получается? В большом все готово, отлаживают мелочи. Двигатели прожжены на полное полетное время. ступени испытаны на рабочей нагрузке. Все в порядке.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:25:42
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 02:40:35
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 00:21:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 28.04.2022 23:36:55
    Цитата: opinion от 28.04.2022 16:07:52После того, как начнет летать Старшип, эта репа превратится в тыкву.
    А после того, как НЕ начнет, во что она превратится, в шляпу?
    Ну-ну... Пресловутые "инженеры НАСА" считают, что Старшип будет летать, но ты хочешь жрать каменную шляпу?
    Инженеры НАСА сделали хорошую ракету Фалкон-9.Насчет стальных бочек вам нужно обращаться в водоканал.
    Но пресловутые "инженеры НАСА" без сомнений готовили и контракт НАСА с Маском на доставку астронавтов на Луну. Как минимум они сделали свою экспертизу по вопросу возможности такого лендера, а он в принципе не может работать без многоразовых танкеров, которые доставят топливо на танкер-накопитель.
       
    Так что готовься жрать каменную шляпу, nonconvex!
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:28:37
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 04:45:10
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 04:15:27А почему у этих инженеров SLS не получается? Куда обращаться?
    Почему не получается? В большом все готово, отлаживают мелочи. Двигатели прожжены на полное полетное время. ступени испытаны на рабочей нагрузке. Все в порядке.
    Эти двигатели на полное время прожигались ещё одиннадцать лет назад. Куда же ушли эти годы и миллиарды долларов?
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:16:26
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:28:37
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 04:45:10
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 04:15:27А почему у этих инженеров SLS не получается? Куда обращаться?
    Почему не получается? В большом все готово, отлаживают мелочи. Двигатели прожжены на полное полетное время. ступени испытаны на рабочей нагрузке. Все в порядке.
    Эти двигатели на полное время прожигались ещё одиннадцать лет назад. Куда же ушли эти годы и миллиарды долларов?
     
    Вам на Луну, или по базару пройти?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:17:45
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:25:42"инженеры НАСА" без сомнений готовили и контракт НАСА с Маском на доставку астронавтов на Луну. Как минимум они сделали свою экспертизу по вопросу возможности такого лендера, а он в принципе не может работать без многоразовых танкеров, которые доставят топливо на танкер-накопитель.
    И почему он не сможет работать с одноразовыми танкерами?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 17:42:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:17:45
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:25:42"инженеры НАСА" без сомнений готовили и контракт НАСА с Маском на доставку астронавтов на Луну. Как минимум они сделали свою экспертизу по вопросу возможности такого лендера, а он в принципе не может работать без многоразовых танкеров, которые доставят топливо на танкер-накопитель.
    И почему он не сможет работать с одноразовыми танкерами?
    Вот ты и работай одноразовым танкером.
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:57:10
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 17:42:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:17:45
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:25:42"инженеры НАСА" без сомнений готовили и контракт НАСА с Маском на доставку астронавтов на Луну. Как минимум они сделали свою экспертизу по вопросу возможности такого лендера, а он в принципе не может работать без многоразовых танкеров, которые доставят топливо на танкер-накопитель.
    И почему он не сможет работать с одноразовыми танкерами?
    Вот ты и работай одноразовым танкером.
    Ответ неверный. Правильный ответ - нет никаких проблем с одноразовыми доставщиками топлива.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 20:09:20
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:57:10
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 17:42:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 17:17:45
    Цитата: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 08:25:42"инженеры НАСА" без сомнений готовили и контракт НАСА с Маском на доставку астронавтов на Луну. Как минимум они сделали свою экспертизу по вопросу возможности такого лендера, а он в принципе не может работать без многоразовых танкеров, которые доставят топливо на танкер-накопитель.
    И почему он не сможет работать с одноразовыми танкерами?
    Вот ты и работай одноразовым танкером.
    Ответ неверный. Правильный ответ - нет никаких проблем с одноразовыми доставщиками топлива.
    Ну так доставляй, я тебе разрешаю!
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 20:36:08
    Жилинский, вы явно устали, вам пора отдохнуть.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Zhilinsky Valerij от 29.04.2022 20:59:48
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 20:36:08Жилинский, вы явно устали, вам пора отдохнуть.
    Так я отдыхаю, а ты работай давай. Солнце ещё высоко!
       
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 29.04.2022 23:40:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 29.04.2022 04:45:10
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 04:15:27А почему у этих инженеров SLS не получается? Куда обращаться?
    Почему не получается? В большом все готово, отлаживают мелочи. Двигатели прожжены на полное полетное время. ступени испытаны на рабочей нагрузке. Все в порядке.
    Да, так же, как со Старлайнером. Отлаживаются мелочи. Пока отлаживали, вставляли палки в колёса Драконам. Теперь Старшипам. Но вечно так продолжаться не может. Со старлайнерами и драконами сдались, со старшипами тоже сдадутся. Полетят на Луну на них.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 30.04.2022 00:08:33
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 23:40:53со старшипами тоже сдадутся. Полетят на Луну на них.
    Караванами старшипов, от звезды до звезды. Вы, главное, верьте!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 30.04.2022 00:10:16
    Цитата: nonconvex от 30.04.2022 00:08:33
    Цитата: opinion от 29.04.2022 23:40:53со старшипами тоже сдадутся. Полетят на Луну на них.
    Караванами старшипов, от звезды до звезды. Вы, главное, верьте!
    На караваны SLS надежды нет. И в караваны Фалконов и Драконов мало кто верил, а поди ж ты.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 30.04.2022 00:18:18
    Старту Старшипа мешает только отсутствие разрешения. Старту СЛС мешает неготовность ракеты. Старту Вулкана - неготовность двигателя. Здесь не нужно верить. Нужно просто принять факты.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 30.04.2022 02:23:37
    Цитата: opinion от 30.04.2022 00:18:18Старту Старшипа мешает только отсутствие разрешения. Старту СЛС мешает неготовность ракеты. Старту Вулкана - неготовность двигателя. Здесь не нужно верить. Нужно просто принять факты.
    То есть двигатели СШ готовы и проверены на полной циклограмме?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 01.05.2022 03:52:27
    Вообще удивительно, как можно сравнивать готовую РН, в процессе доводки, с макетом РН, и макетными фактически двигателями. Из желания поспорить что ли?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 06.05.2022 00:19:59
    Цитата: Blue Origin (@blueorigin), 02 мая 2022PQE-602 был первым из двигателей Blue Origin BE-4 в лётной конфигурации, который мы собрали и испытали, получив на испытаниях стабильные повторяющиеся рабочие циклы длительностью более 2500 секунд.

    PQE-802 помог оценить вариации между различными лётными конфигурациями. Двигатель этой конфигурации демонстрировал устойчивую работу на уровне мощности 104% (с тягой ~260 тс).

    Общее время огневых испытаний PQE-900 составило более 5000 секунд при 36 включениях. Этот экземпляр позволил оценить стабильность горения, работу карданного подвеса и перезапуск двигателя. После незначительного ремонта это будет первый BE-4, испытанный на историческом испытательном стенде 4670 Центра космических полетов им. Маршалла с момента его модернизации.

    Мы тщательно протестировали двигатели в лётной конфигурации во всем рабочем диапазоне и за его пределами, получив превосходные характеристики (удельный импульс, тяга) для двигателя на СПГ. Благодаря результатам этой серии испытаний мы уверены в наших первых лётных двигателях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 06.05.2022 00:35:05
    Цитата: Тори Бруно (@torybruno) 4-5 мая 2022Фото №1 - Хм. Как вы думаете, что это? Интересно, имеет ли это какое-то отношение к РН "Вулкан"?

    Фото №2 - По многочисленным просьбам, более понятный вид: РН "Вулкан" (а этот "маленький" бак рядом с ней - от "Дельта IV")
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 11.05.2022 19:14:06
    Цитата: Blue Origin, @blueoriginВы просили видео – мы вас услышали. Важные этапы этих испытаний BE-4 включали демонстрацию переходного процесса запуска двигателя при теплом сжиженном кислороде/холодном СПГ (пограничное условие). Первый двигатель, который перешагнул рубеж в 4000 секунд общего времени огневых испытаний, в конечном итоге достигнув наработки более 5000 секунд.

    https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1524385537519403008/pu/vid/1280x720/5740Wzt8_3QzRuBr.mp4
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Евгений Кравченко от 12.05.2022 04:07:38
    Красивое
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 22.06.2022 01:12:16
    Цитата: Arzach от 22.06.2022 01:07:59
    Цитата: undefinedBlue Origin: наши двигателисты впервые установили двигатель BE-4 на реконструированный исторический испытательный стенд №4670 Космического центра им. Маршалла в ходе подготовки к приемочным испытаниям.
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15544.0;attach=22442;image) (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=15544.0;attach=22444;image)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 27.06.2022 10:57:25
    Цитата: Просто Василий от 17.02.2020 12:46:04
    Цитата: undefinedazvoz написал:
    Цитата: undefinedЭто нельзя назвать твердым подтверждением , тем более про ВСЕ заявленные характеристики.
    Будем ждать письменного официоза.
    Можно, смысл врать? Остался год до пуска, на сайте как стояли 2400 кН так и стоят, в payload user guide написано 2400 кН, и вот главный по жрд сказал что 550 000 lbf тяги, что ещё нужно? Что за опровергателььство такое? В чем сверхцель врать blue origin по тяги их жрд?

    Прошло 2,5 года и я как всегда оказался прав БЕ-4 так и не готов к работе на заявленной тяге в 2400 кН.
    Проигнорировали закон о невозможности стабильной работы углеводородных ДОГГ движков на заметном превышении 2000 кН..
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 27.06.2022 17:09:55
    Цитата: azvoz от 27.06.2022 10:57:25БЕ-4 так и не готов к работе на заявленной тяге в 2400 кН.
    А как быть с этим?
    Цитата: Arzach от 06.05.2022 00:19:59PQE-802 помог оценить вариации между различными лётными конфигурациями. Двигатель этой конфигурации демонстрировал устойчивую работу на уровне мощности 104% (с тягой ~260 тс).
    260 тс ~ 2550 кН
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 27.06.2022 18:55:14
    Цитата: Arzach от 27.06.2022 17:09:55
    Цитата: azvoz от 27.06.2022 10:57:25БЕ-4 так и не готов к работе на заявленной тяге в 2400 кН.
    А как быть с этим?
    Цитата: Arzach от 06.05.2022 00:19:59PQE-802 помог оценить вариации между различными лётными конфигурациями. Двигатель этой конфигурации демонстрировал устойчивую работу на уровне мощности 104% (с тягой ~260 тс).
    260 тс ~ 2550 кН
    Почему тогда не отгружают для ЮЛА в требуемых количествах?
    И самое главное - почему 2.5 года назад не отгрузили, когда тоже вещали что всё по плану?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 27.06.2022 19:18:42
    Цитата: azvoz от 27.06.2022 18:55:14Почему тогда не отгружают для ЮЛА в требуемых количествах?
    И самое главное - почему 2.5 года назад не отгрузили, когда тоже вещали что всё по плану?
    Так это ж опытный образец, как и прочие, упомянутые в той новости. До уровня лётного изделия этот движок дошёл только где-то к началу этого года.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 28.06.2022 08:20:38
    Цитата: Arzach от 27.06.2022 19:18:42
    Цитата: azvoz от 27.06.2022 18:55:14Почему тогда не отгружают для ЮЛА в требуемых количествах?
    И самое главное - почему 2.5 года назад не отгрузили, когда тоже вещали что всё по плану?
    Так это ж опытный образец, как и прочие, упомянутые в той новости.
    До уровня лётного изделия этот движок дошёл только где-то к началу этого года.
    То есть на днях полетит? ;D
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 28.06.2022 10:02:43
    Цитата: azvoz от 28.06.2022 08:20:38То есть на днях полетит? (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/Smileys/fugue/grin.png)
    Не всё так просто - сначала приёмочные испытания каждого лётного для заказчика на стенде, как писалось выше. Потом, если всё гладко - интеграция в РН. Потом испытания всей РН, как у SLS сейчас. Так что, полагаю, полетит, скорее всего, всё-таки где-то уже в 2023-м.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 31.07.2022 12:26:25
    Цитата: undefinedТори Бруно: двигатель Blueorigin FE1 для первого полета отправляется в Техас для краткого прожига, а затем - на ракетный завод в Декейтере.
    Однако, непонятно, что он имел в виду под FE1.

    FY8Qh9uXoAEeKRe.jpg FY8Qh9vXoAAnpit.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 31.07.2022 14:38:38
    Цитата: Arzach от 31.07.2022 12:26:25
    Цитата: undefinedТори Бруно: двигатель Blueorigin FE1 для первого полета отправляется в Техас для краткого прожига, а затем - на ракетный завод в Декейтере.
    Однако, непонятно, что он имел в виду под FE1.

    Flight Engine.
    Собственно, их два, FE-2 справа:
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/58096.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 31.07.2022 15:08:17
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 14:38:38Flight Engine
    Да, спасибо, не сообразил.

    По ранее заявленному графику, о котором я писал здесь (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2374402), уже заметно отстают (на пару месяцев), если это речь там и тут идет об одних и тех же испытаниях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 31.07.2022 15:27:02
    Цитата: Arzach от 31.07.2022 15:08:17
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 14:38:38Flight Engine
    Да, спасибо, не сообразил.

    По ранее заявленному графику, о котором я писал здесь (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2374402), уже заметно отстают (на пару месяцев), если это речь там и тут идет об одних и тех же испытаниях.
    Отстают, да. Эрик Бергер, получается, довольно точно предсказал, что в Декатуре первый двигатель будет не раньше конца августа, если прожиг пройдёт без замечаний.

    Ну и остаются вопросы, насколько регулярно Блю сможет это чудо техники поставлять. Двигатель выглядит очень сложным и трудоемким в изготовлении.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 31.07.2022 15:45:26
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 15:27:02
    Цитата: Arzach от 31.07.2022 15:08:17
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 14:38:38Flight Engine
    Да, спасибо, не сообразил.

    По ранее заявленному графику, о котором я писал здесь (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2374402), уже заметно отстают (на пару месяцев), если это речь там и тут идет об одних и тех же испытаниях.
    Отстают, да. Эрик Бегрег, получается, довольно точно предсказал, что в Декатуре первый двигатель будет не раньше конца августа, если прожиг пройдёт без замечаний.

    Ну и остаются вопросы, насколько регулярно Блю сможет это чудо техники поставлять. Двигатель выглядит очень сложным, и трудоемким в изготовлении.
    Тю, поменяют на Раптор 2.5... )))
    Все будет SpaceX. ;-)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 31.07.2022 16:45:09
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 15:27:02Двигатель выглядит очень сложным, и трудоемким в изготовлении.
    Несколькими сообщениями ранее, на фото, где движок установлен на стенде без измерительной обвязки, он не выглядит таким уж сложным.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.08.2022 05:17:32
    Цитата: Искандер от 31.07.2022 15:45:26Тю, поменяют на Раптор 2.5... )))
    Все будет SpaceX. ;-)
    Все будет натурально, благо чисел в ряду бесконечно много.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 03.08.2022 05:18:52
    Цитата: Arzach от 31.07.2022 16:45:09
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 15:27:02Двигатель выглядит очень сложным, и трудоемким в изготовлении.
    Несколькими сообщениями ранее, на фото, где движок установлен на стенде без измерительной обвязки, он не выглядит таким уж сложным.
    Тот было больше похож на примерочный ГВМ, они действительно несложно выглядят.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 03.08.2022 17:14:53
    Цитата: nonconvex от 03.08.2022 05:17:32
    Цитата: Искандер от 31.07.2022 15:45:26Тю, поменяют на Раптор 2.5... )))
    Все будет SpaceX. ;-)
    Все будет натурально, благо чисел в ряду бесконечно много.
    Та да, конечно будет натурально.
    Хотя жизнь показывает что случится может все что угодно.
    Бесконечно много не будет. Мерлин остановился в развитии, когда Маск посчитал что "вылизали" конструкцию достаточно. Тоже будет и с Раптором. Доведут тягу где-то до ~250т, а ресурс за ~100 циклов и остановятся.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 04.08.2022 05:11:36
    Цитата: Искандер от 03.08.2022 17:14:53Мерлин остановился в развитии, когда Маск посчитал что "вылизали" конструкцию достаточно. Тоже будет и с Раптором. Доведут тягу где-то до ~250т, а ресурс за ~100 циклов и остановятся.
    Мерлин делали адекватные инженеры, под неусыпным контролем NASA, потому и сделали быстро и хорошо. .  Команду Раптора уже пару раз разогнали по разным причинам, так что я бы сравнивать даже не пытался.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 04.08.2022 09:44:44
    Цитата: nonconvex от 04.08.2022 05:11:36
    Цитата: Искандер от 03.08.2022 17:14:53Мерлин остановился в развитии, когда Маск посчитал что "вылизали" конструкцию достаточно. Тоже будет и с Раптором. Доведут тягу где-то до ~250т, а ресурс за ~100 циклов и остановятся.
    Мерлин делали адекватные инженеры, под неусыпным контролем NASA, потому и сделали быстро и хорошо. .  Команду Раптора уже пару раз разогнали по разным причинам, так что я бы сравнивать даже не пытался.
    В последней стадии доводки Мерлина Миллер уже был приходящим консультантом, не более!
    Быстро это сколько лет? Мерлин прекратил развитие где-то в 2016 (?). Т.е. с 2002 по 2016 это 14 лет. Причем Миллер пришел с готовой схемой двигателя, сказать что Мерлин разрабатывался с нуля будет неправильно.
    Начало разработки метанового Раптора анонсировано в конце 2012 года. Т.е. нет ещё и полных 10 лет, а мы имеем второе поколение с выдающимися характеристиками, это единственный двигатель полной газофикацией компонентов, с готовыми производственными мощностями и вполне пригодный для одноразового использования.
    А команды иногда нужно разгонять. Это свойство человеческих коллективов - зациклиться на проблемах и прекратить развитие. Люди со свежим взглядом на проблему обычно легко преодолевают "затык" предыдущей команды. И это не значит, что прошлая была плохая - нужно время для освобождения от "якорей" в сознании. По себе знаю.
    Поэтому Маск и с командой автопилота вполне тепло простился.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 04.08.2022 14:11:37
    Цитата: Mavik от 31.07.2022 15:27:02Двигатель выглядит очень сложным и трудоемким в изготовлении.
    Схемно он гораздо проще Раптора: один ГГ, один ТНА. И, похоже, никаких специальных суперсплавов (умеренные параметры).
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 09.08.2022 18:36:26
    ЦитироватьВо время испытаний первого лётного двигателя BE-4 возникла небольшая проблема - поправимая, но может привести к небольшим задержкам. 
    Скорее всего, Blue Origin передадут оба двигателя ULA в течение следующих 4-6 недель, 
    и дебют ракеты Vulcan состоится в первой половине 2023 года.
    https://t.me/spacex_rus/52151
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 11.08.2022 12:13:06
    Цитата: azvoz от 09.08.2022 18:36:26Во время испытаний первого лётного двигателя BE-4 возникла небольшая проблема...
    К слову, это информация от Эрика Бергера - российский паблик фанов SpaceX имеет дурную привычку скрывать истинные источники информации.

    Там он, кстати пишет про свою оценку готовности Dream Chaser (на первом Вулкане должен полететь лунник Astrobotic Peregrine, на втором - Chaser) как 12-18 месяцев.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 11.08.2022 12:38:59
    Цитата: Arzach от 11.08.2022 12:13:06
    Цитата: azvoz от 09.08.2022 18:36:26Во ...
    К слову, это информация от Эрика Бергера - российский паблик фанов SpaceX имеет дурную привычку скрывать истинные источники информации.
    Я исхожу из принципа "лучше мало инфы, чем никакой".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 27.08.2022 03:26:39
    ГО для первого полёта РН Вулкан, по прежнему обещанного на декабрь 2022
    ЦитироватьThe first flight payload fairing.  #VulcanRocket! . @Astrobotic how does it look?

    #CountdowntoVulcan
    3:05 AM · Aug 26, 2022
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/331078.jpg)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 27.08.2022 12:17:34
    ЦитироватьОдин из двух лётных двигателей BE-4 уже проходит приёмочные испытания на стенде ULA в Техасе перед установкой на первую ступень Vulcan. Второй - немного запаздывает из-за "незначительных проблем" (t.me/spacex_rus/52151), устранением которых сейчас занимаются Blue Origin.
    https://t.me/spacex_rus/52623
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: algol5720 от 27.08.2022 13:08:35
     ВЕ-4 по сравнению с Раптором-2 очень неказист  ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 02.09.2022 18:27:26
    Тори Бруно: "Группа инженеров ULA и NASA только что завершила криогенные испытания верхней ступени Centaur V. В течение 11 дней они тщательно отрабатывали криогенные операции, проверяя готовность к полету. Vulcan все ближе..."

    FbqOU5ZWQAAWxmO.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 07.09.2022 13:51:21
    Цитата: azvoz от 27.08.2022 12:17:34
    ЦитироватьОдин из двух лётных двигателей BE-4 уже проходит приёмочные испытания на стенде ULA в Техасе перед установкой на первую ступень Vulcan. Второй - немного запаздывает из-за "незначительных проблем" (t.me/spacex_rus/52151), устранением которых сейчас занимаются Blue Origin.
    https://t.me/spacex_rus/52623
    Сколько ж у ВЕ-4 "соплей"! Всё-таки не зря Маск "вылизывает" Раптор - смотрится как "серийный". И по сути оно так и есть.
    Практически та же тяга при намного большей компактности.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 08.09.2022 02:33:44
    Цитата: Искандер от 07.09.2022 13:51:21Сколько ж у ВЕ-4 "соплей"!
    Это потому что он блестящий!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 12.10.2022 16:03:36
    ЦитироватьТори Бруно (CEO ULA) рядом с первым лётным двигателем BE-4 (от Blue Origin)
    t.me/spacex_rus/53737
    https://t.me/spacex_rus/53737
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 01.11.2022 02:56:38
    ЦитироватьМем «Где мои двигатели, Джефф?» больше не актуален.
    Двигатель FE2 уже установлен на первую ступень ракеты Vulcan ,
    FE1 будет установлен в ближайшее время. 
    t.me/spacex_rus/54127
    https://t.me/spacex_rus/54127
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:00:32
    Что-то оно выглядит очень недёшево.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 01.11.2022 03:28:03
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:00:32Что-то оно выглядит очень недёшево.
    По источникам Эрика Бергера БЕ-4 стоит $10 млн за штуку, т.е. $20 млн за комплект.

    РД-180 в 2015 стоил для ULA $23.4 млн (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-capitalism-rockets-special-rep/special-report-in-pentagon-deal-with-russians-big-profit-for-tiny-florida-firm-idUSKCN0J22BQ20141118).

    С учетом того, что:
    а) деньги остаются внутри своей экономики
    б) не кормят русских
    с) развиваются свои технологии
    д) немного дешевле и цену можно контролировать
    получилось совсем не плохо.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:31:14
    Мне кажется, они потеряли деньги. Надо было брать у Маска.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 01.11.2022 03:44:58
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:31:14Мне кажется, они потеряли деньги. Надо было брать у Маска.
    Тогда поставщиком двигателей для обеих основных перспективных РН был бы SpaceX, что недопустимо.
    Если же закладываться на среднесрочную перспективу, в которой СпХ полностью перейдет на Старшип, то получится что у обеих провайдеров вообще одинаковые двигатели, так что вдвойне нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:56:20
    Маск, собака ;), сделает вот что. Он выкатит в итоге из всего этого шума (и будет в плюсе, даже, если шум ничего вообще не даст) абсолютно обычную ракету формата Ф9, может, чуть мощнее, на метане с интересным движком. А государство прямо или косвенно, да, будет оплачивать видимость альтернативы за счёт своих граждан. Что-то мне это у нас напоминает... Я к тому, что не враги мы с Америкой. Бой в мире за здравый смысл. Может при каких-то условиях Америка снова возглавить его? Почему бы и нет, имхо.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 01.11.2022 04:15:40
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:56:20Маск, собака ;), сделает вот что. Он выкатит в итоге из всего этого шума (и будет в плюсе, даже, если шум ничего вообще не даст) абсолютно обычную ракету формата Ф9, может, чуть мощнее, на метане с интересным движком. А государство прямо или косвенно, да, будет оплачивать видимость альтернативы за счёт своих граждан. Что-то мне это у нас напоминает... Я к тому, что не враги мы с Америкой. Бой в мире за здравый смысл. Может при каких-то условиях Америка снова возглавить его? Почему бы и нет, имхо.
    «Обычную метановую ракету»  и без Маска сделают, у Relativity она уже на космодроме и прямой конкурент Ф9 в разработке, и Рокетлаб делает свою многоразовую.  

    Но с БЕ-4 все действительно может упереться в масштабирование производства. 

    В сегодняшнем апдейте НАСА подтвердила, что СпХ делает по одному Раптору в день, они проверили. 
    https://twitter.com/sciguyspace/status/1587092057776062467
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:24:17
    Вот! И к чему мы приходим? К рационализации (может быть... я надеюсь) (путём конкуренции... самый эффективный случай, если так) отрасли, которая скатилась, к сожалению, имхо, в полнейший маразм. Это всё и нам хороший раздражитель, в идеале бы подхватить бы и тоже начать подстёгивать.. А то бхг на все времена (((
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 01.11.2022 04:40:19
    Цитата: Mavik от 01.11.2022 03:28:03
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:00:32Что-то оно выглядит очень недёшево.
    По источникам Эрика Бергера БЕ-4 стоит $10 млн за штуку, т.е. $20 млн за комплект.

    РД-180 в 2015 стоил для ULA $23.4 млн (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-capitalism-rockets-special-rep/special-report-in-pentagon-deal-with-russians-big-profit-for-tiny-florida-firm-idUSKCN0J22BQ20141118).

    С учетом того, что:
    а) деньги остаются внутри своей экономики
    б) не кормят русских
    У вас какая то ненависть к русским прослеживается.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:47:46
    Нет.. ну, максимум, методичка + отсутствие опыта исполнения ;). Такова жизнь. Все какую-то роль в ней играем. Вполне хороший человек ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 08:15:09
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:24:17Вот! И к чему мы приходим? К рационализации (может быть... я надеюсь) (путём конкуренции... самый эффективный случай, если так) отрасли, которая скатилась, к сожалению, имхо, в полнейший маразм. Это всё и нам хороший раздражитель, в идеале бы подхватить бы и тоже начать подстёгивать.. А то бхг на все времена (((
    У нас не рыночная экономика. И уж в отрасли подавно. Поэтому производители не парятся и не особо обращают внимание на то, что в мире происходит. Все равно государство у них закажет, оному деваться некуда. :) Когда что-то идет в ногу с... то это скорее вопреки, благодаря инициативе отдельных индивидуумов, а не благодаря системному подходу. Собственно, у нас всегда оно так.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 01.11.2022 08:22:57
    Цитата: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 08:15:09
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:24:17Вот! И к чему мы приходим? К рационализации (может быть... я надеюсь) (путём конкуренции... самый эффективный случай, если так) отрасли, которая скатилась, к сожалению, имхо, в полнейший маразм. Это всё и нам хороший раздражитель, в идеале бы подхватить бы и тоже начать подстёгивать.. А то бхг на все времена (((
    У нас не рыночная экономика.
    А где она рыночная?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 10:14:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 01.11.2022 08:22:57
    Цитата: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 08:15:09
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:24:17Вот! И к чему мы приходим? К рационализации (может быть... я надеюсь) (путём конкуренции... самый эффективный случай, если так) отрасли, которая скатилась, к сожалению, имхо, в полнейший маразм. Это всё и нам хороший раздражитель, в идеале бы подхватить бы и тоже начать подстёгивать.. А то бхг на все времена (((
    У нас не рыночная экономика.
    А где она рыночная?

    На загнивающем западе, где этот термин и придумали. И рыночная она не в рафинированном смысле этого слова, а в том смысле, что предприятия конкурируют между собой, стараются делать лучше, выбор соисполнителей не на личных отношениях и традициях. А еще там не работает ТК РФ, по которому уволить дармоеда с работы почти невозможно если АО с 100% долей государства. Отчего накладные расходы под 1000%. Но на это плевать, ведь социальная нагрузка это наш конек, зачем нам развитие. Еще один признак - бизнес там сам несет деньги в аэрокосмос. Потому что ожидает прибыль. У нас практически нет такого, если только заставят палкой.

    Вот смотрите. Если что-то недееспособно, то оно для своего функционирования требует искусственной поддержки государства. И никак иначе оно не выживет. Т.е отдай бизнесу этот актив, этот самый бизнес посмотрит на него и решит, что выгоднее под склады территорию этого актива отдать. Или под парковку. И то выгоднее будет. Гипотетически, если отдать именно реальному бизнесу наши предприятия отрасли, то столько из них уцелеет через 1-2 года после этой процедуры? И сколько с уцелевших уволят народу? Мне кажется, население предприятий сократится минимум в 4 раза. И вот оставшаяся часть и будет "рыночной", потому что будет кому-то нужна и будет работать не в мусорный ящик, а за страх и совесть. Потому что если не будет - то будет тоже разогнана.

    А что еще немаловажно: там за пригорочком, среди гнили буржуазной, планирование развития и целеполагание при этом делается не по заглядыванию к соседу в его планы, не по подсматриванию его проектов. А своим умом. :) Но это уже другой разговор совсем, не про рынок. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Feol от 01.11.2022 12:19:53
    ULA прямо наилучший пример рыночности и эффективности ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Георгий от 01.11.2022 12:47:56
    Цитата: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 10:14:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 01.11.2022 08:22:57
    Цитата: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 08:15:09
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 04:24:17Вот! И к чему мы приходим? К рационализации (может быть... я надеюсь) (путём конкуренции... самый эффективный случай, если так) отрасли, которая скатилась, к сожалению, имхо, в полнейший маразм. Это всё и нам хороший раздражитель, в идеале бы подхватить бы и тоже начать подстёгивать.. А то бхг на все времена (((
    У нас не рыночная экономика.
    А где она рыночная?

    На загнивающем западе, где этот термин и придумали. И рыночная она не в рафинированном смысле этого слова, а в том смысле, что предприятия конкурируют между собой, стараются делать лучше, выбор соисполнителей не на личных отношениях и традициях. А еще там не работает ТК РФ, по которому уволить дармоеда с работы почти невозможно если АО с 100% долей государства. Отчего накладные расходы под 1000%. Но на это плевать, ведь социальная нагрузка это наш конек, зачем нам развитие. Еще один признак - бизнес там сам несет деньги в аэрокосмос. Потому что ожидает прибыль. У нас практически нет такого, если только заставят палкой.

    Вот смотрите. Если что-то недееспособно, то оно для своего функционирования требует искусственной поддержки государства. И никак иначе оно не выживет. Т.е отдай бизнесу этот актив, этот самый бизнес посмотрит на него и решит, что выгоднее под склады территорию этого актива отдать. Или под парковку. И то выгоднее будет. Гипотетически, если отдать именно реальному бизнесу наши предприятия отрасли, то столько из них уцелеет через 1-2 года после этой процедуры? И сколько с уцелевших уволят народу? Мне кажется, население предприятий сократится минимум в 4 раза. И вот оставшаяся часть и будет "рыночной", потому что будет кому-то нужна и будет работать не в мусорный ящик, а за страх и совесть. Потому что если не будет - то будет тоже разогнана.

    А что еще немаловажно: там за пригорочком, среди гнили буржуазной, планирование развития и целеполагание при этом делается не по заглядыванию к соседу в его планы, не по подсматриванию его проектов. А своим умом. :) Но это уже другой разговор совсем, не про рынок. 
    безграмотно приводить в пример американский аэрокосмос, где с 60-х годов "рыночка" нет, потому что в приоритете было создание и поддержание мобилизационных мощностей промышленности. с оплатой неработающих мощностей, делением твоих заказов с конкурентами, передачей на субподряд,  сплошным вмешательством в ценообразование. а закончилось все откатами и неэффективностью.
    СпейсХ исключение, подтверждающее правило. Потому что народ зажрался в Юле и Боинге так, что перестал ловить мышей. Уволить там можно за полдня, не по ТК, но это помогает?
    Флаговтык лунный вообще апофеоз государственной и рыночной эффективности "нам нужна победа, мы за ценой не постоим"
    Вы путаете характер собственности, механизмы ценообразования с зря связываете это с эффективностью. не понимаете как считается производительность труда. и вообще что такое факторный анализ производительности.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Георгий от 01.11.2022 20:18:18
    Цитата: Наименьший квадрат от 01.11.2022 15:58:12DigitalGlobe и начали активничать всякие SES и прочие товарищи. Начал появляться бизнес на услугах из космоса. Это я подразумевал под рынком. Когда от деятельности появилась прибыль для бизнеса, который стал готов вкладываться в отрасль.
    тогда согласен, но опять же это не "рынок/рыночек/рыночная экономика" с якобы бОльшими возможностями развития и инноваций, а элементарно бОльший рынок потребителей, которые могут позволить себе покупать спутниковые услуги - фермеры -  точные прогнозы на основе ДЗЗ, транспортные компании - подвижную спутниковую связь, ширнармассы - порноканалы с геостационара.
    кроме масштаба ничем это от спутников Горизонт для передачи каналов на Дальний Восток.
    Ну и развитие этих услуг зависело больше от гигантского скачка в электронике и радио, чем от пусковых услуг всяких ЮЛА, Ариан.

    Я вообще не понимаю как эти Боинги и Юлы дальше будут жить. Себестоимость Маска они никогда не достигнут. Надежность могут достигнуть, но слишком долго - надо будет лет 5 квалификационные пуски проводить.
    Лавочка с SLS скоро прикроется тихо.
    военные задружатся с Маском по всем фронтам.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 02.11.2022 02:14:46
    Blue Origin передала ULA второй лётный экземпляр двигателя BE-4 (https://www.blueorigin.com/news/blue-origin-completes-the-delivery-of-flight-engines-to-ula-for-vulcan-initial-launch/).

    FE2Ready.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 02.11.2022 12:44:56
    Цитата: nonconvex от 02.11.2022 04:14:57
    Цитата: Mavik от 01.11.2022 14:03:11
    Цитата: nonconvex от 01.11.2022 04:40:19
    Цитата: Mavik от 01.11.2022 03:28:03
    Цитата: Feol от 01.11.2022 03:00:32Что-то оно выглядит очень недёшево.
    По источникам Эрика Бергера БЕ-4 стоит $10 млн за штуку, т.е. $20 млн за комплект.

    РД-180 в 2015 стоил для ULA $23.4 млн (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-capitalism-rockets-special-rep/special-report-in-pentagon-deal-with-russians-big-profit-for-tiny-florida-firm-idUSKCN0J22BQ20141118).

    С учетом того, что:
    а) деньги остаются внутри своей экономики
    б) не кормят русских
    У вас какая то ненависть к русским прослеживается.
    Это совершенно объективный фактор, о нем говорил и Маск, выступая в Конгрессе, и Гвинн Шотвелл,и даже Чарли Болден (бывший администратор НАСА).
    Вы на расклад глазами той стороны можете смотреть
    В смысле силовое устранение конкурента для вас объективный фактор? А при чем тут рынок?

    Расскажите про «силовое устранение», очень интересно. Контракт на поставку РД-180 был выполнен в полном объеме и завершился без претензий. 
    (Про то, что Рогозин оборвал послепродажную поддержку двигателей мы же вспоминать не будем, правда?)

    Контракт на поставку РД-181 оборвал все тот же Рогозин:
    Цитировать"Планировали с 2022-24 года дополнительно поставить 12 двигателей РД-181 и РДС-181М с улучшенными тактико-техническими характеристиками. Но мы считаем, что в этой ситуации дальше не можем снабжать США нашими лучшими в мире ракетными двигателями, пусть они летают на чем-то еще – на своих метлах, но мы эти поставки замораживаем", – говорит Дмитрий Рогозин, глава госкорпорации "Роскосмос".
    Итак, «силовое (?) устранение конкурента». Ждем.  
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Salo от 02.11.2022 19:29:43
    Вы про запрет покупки РД-180 ничего не слышали?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 02.11.2022 20:11:30
    Цитата: Salo от 02.11.2022 19:29:43Вы про запрет покупки РД-180 ничего не слышали?
    Конечно. А вы помните заявление Дмитрий Рогозина от 13 мая 2014 года? Я напомню.
    Откроем системную и большую СМИ, Газета.ру (https://www.gazeta.ru/science/2014/05/13_a_6029969.shtml):

    Россия ограничивает поставки ракетных двигателей в США, закрывает станции GPS на своей территории и отказывается от эксплуатации МКС после 2020 года. Об этом во вторник (13 мая 2014 года) заявил вице-премьер правительства РФ Дмитрий Рогозин.

    Наиболее острой угрозой для США в словах Рогозина является лишение Штатов российских ракетных двигателей РД-180. «Мы будем исходить из реалий. Мы не сможем продолжать поставлять двигатели РД-180, если они будут использоваться США не в гражданских целях, а также не сможем продолжать регламентные работы по обслуживанию уже поставленных двигателей на территории США», — заявил Рогозин во вторник.

    Кстати, там же, для контекста:

    "Согласно еще одному заявлению Дмитрия Рогозина, сделанному во вторник, Россия не намерена продлевать эксплуатацию Международной космической станции после 2020 года. По словам вице-премьера, после 2020 года Россия намерена использовать средства, направляемые на пилотируемую космонавтику, на более перспективные космические проекты. Чиновник напомнил, что треть бюджета Роскосмоса идет на пилотируемую космонавтику. При этом вице-премьер отметил, что «российский сегмент может существовать самостоятельно от американского, американский сегмент самостоятельно от российского существовать не может».
    Рогозин признал, что по проекту МКС зависимость России и США обоюдная, но у США — большая, поскольку они не имеют собственных средств доставки астронавтов на орбиту. Правда, сделал он это в более мягких выражениях, чем 29 апреля, когда он написал: «Проанализировав санкции против нашего космопрома, предлагаю США доставлять своих астронавтов на МКС с помощью батута».

    (И, да, объявление о партнерстве ULA/Blue Origin и выборе BE-4 для Вулкана было сделано только в сентябре 2014, т.е., спустя полгода посе слов Рогозина.) - https://spacenews.com/41901ula-to-invest-in-blue-origin-engine-as-rd-180-replacement/
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 11.11.2022 21:32:03
    На "Вулкан" поставили оба летных экземпляра ВЕ-4 (блюр в двигательном отсеке - требования безопасности):

    Vulcan1.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 12.11.2022 06:21:15
    Цитата: Arzach от 11.11.2022 21:32:03На "Вулкан" поставили оба летных экземпляра ВЕ-4 (блюр в двигательном отсеке - требования безопасности):
    https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=26584;image
    Интересно, впишутся ли в Вулкан(диаметр 5,4 м) 4 движка ВЕ-4.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Dulevo от 07.12.2022 14:22:39
    Сюда что-ли?

    Национальная команда представила свое предложение по программе SLD НАСА, чтобы помочь США установить устойчивое присутствие на Луне. Партнерами национальной сборной являются
    BlueOrigin,ЛокхидМартин,DraperLab,Боинг,Астроботик,Honeybee_Ltd

    Числом решили взять.
    Подали заявку в последний день, еле-еле успели до окончания срока подачи заявок.
    Список поставщиков - покрывает все штаты - толстый намек правительству - вы нам - мы вам. Видимо их главный козырь.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sembler от 08.12.2022 01:12:15
    Цитата: azvoz от 12.11.2022 06:21:15Интересно, впишутся ли в Вулкан(диаметр 5,4 м) 4 движка ВЕ-4.

    Увеличение ПН они планируют получать с помощью добавления до шести твердотопливников. Для еще двух BE-4 нужно топливо=емкости баков, места для которых в Вулкане нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 08.12.2022 03:19:22
    Цитата: Dulevo от 07.12.2022 14:22:39Сюда что-ли?

    Национальная команда представила свое предложение по программе SLD НАСА, чтобы помочь США установить устойчивое присутствие на Луне. Партнерами национальной сборной являются
    BlueOrigin,ЛокхидМартин,DraperLab,Боинг,Астроботик,Honeybee_Ltd

    Числом решили взять.
    Подали заявку в последний день, еле-еле успели до окончания срока подачи заявок.
    Список поставщиков - покрывает все штаты - толстый намек правительству - вы нам - мы вам. Видимо их главный козырь.
    В списке явно светится дулево по отношениею к раскрученному в широких кругах аэрокосмическому магнату.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 09.01.2023 18:09:21
    Завершена сборка и вакуумные испытания первого летного экземпляра второй ступени РН Vulcan - Centaur V.

    ЦитироватьТори Бруно:  Подумал, что вам будет приятно увидеть собранный первый летный экземпляр ступени Centaur V, который направляется в вакуумную камеру для испытаний (теперь они уже завершены).
    CentaurVflight01.jpg CentaurVflight02.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 09.01.2023 18:10:39
    Цитата: Arzach от 09.01.2023 18:09:21Завершена сборка и вакуумные испытания первого летного экземпляра второй ступени РН Vulcan - Centaur V.

    ЦитироватьТои Бруно:  Подумал, что вам будет приятно увидеть собранный первый летный экземпляр ступени Centaur V, который направляется в вакуумную камеру для испытаний (теперь они уже завершены).
    [url="https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=28519;type=preview;file"]CentaurVflight01.jpg[/url] [url="https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=28521;type=preview;file"]CentaurVflight02.jpg[/url]

    Водород рулит!
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 10.01.2023 15:39:52
    Цитироватьпервую ступень Vulcan  готовят к транспортировке во Флориду,
    откуда планируется первый запуск новой ракеты-носителя компании ULA
    t.me/spacex_rus/55445
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 12.02.2023 21:10:32
    Не знаю насколько это правда...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Шлангенциркуль от 12.02.2023 22:47:19
    Установили вторую ступень, так что запуск может быть довольно скоро. Хотя вряд ли через пару недель.
    https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/1624059796931354626
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 13.02.2023 00:57:12
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 12.02.2023 21:10:32Не знаю насколько это правда...
    Запуск ориентировочно в мае. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Старый от 13.02.2023 01:04:31
    Цитата: Mavik от 13.02.2023 00:57:12Запуск ориентировочно в мае. 
    Запуск в маю - всё по... барабану! 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 03:39:49
    Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Sembler от 13.02.2023 04:12:37
    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 03:39:49Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Пока к старту готовится Вулкан - растолстевший Атлас, разработанный и изготовленный ULA. Черепаха Безоса, еще более толстый New Glenn, до старта пока не доползла. В этом году должна доползти и уже даже получила ряд контрактов на извоз. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 04:19:45
    Цитата: Sembler от 13.02.2023 04:12:37
    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 03:39:49Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Пока к старту готовится Вулкан - растолстевший Атлас, разработанный и изготовленный ULA. Черепаха Безоса, еще более толстый New Glenn, до старта пока не доползла. В этом году должна доползти и уже даже получила ряд контрактов на извоз.
    Тут, как вы понимаете, вопрос не в толщине. Вопрос в двигателях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 13.02.2023 07:20:07
    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 04:19:45
    Цитата: Sembler от 13.02.2023 04:12:37
    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 03:39:49Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Пока к старту готовится Вулкан - растолстевший Атлас, разработанный и изготовленный ULA. Черепаха Безоса, еще более толстый New Glenn, до старта пока не доползла. В этом году должна доползти и уже даже получила ряд контрактов на извоз.
    Тут, как вы понимаете, вопрос не в толщине. Вопрос в двигателях.
    Если говорить о двигателях, то черепаха наконец-то доползла до опустевшей берлоги медведя.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 13.02.2023 10:31:00
    Цитата: Mavik от 13.02.2023 00:57:12
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 12.02.2023 21:10:32Не знаю насколько это правда...
    Запуск ориентировочно в мае.
    Не знаю, откуда взялся май, но указанную в видео целевую дату - 25 февраля - и раньше озвучивали. Впрочем, поскольку это первый пуск РН, то вероятность переносов весьма высока. Сейчас вот вывоз и заправочные испытания проведут, будет более-менее ясно, на что можно рассчитывать.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 13.02.2023 16:22:47
    Цитата: Arzach от 13.02.2023 10:31:00
    Цитата: Mavik от 13.02.2023 00:57:12
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 12.02.2023 21:10:32Не знаю насколько это правда...
    Запуск ориентировочно в мае.
    Не знаю, откуда взялся май, но указанную в видео целевую дату - 25 февраля - и раньше озвучивали...
    Теперь понятно, откуда: целевой датой по-прежнему является 25 февраля, но Эрик Бергер высказал в своей статье (https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/when-will-united-launch-alliances-vulcan-rocket-fly/) "эмпирическую оценку", где накаркал:)предсказал перенос на май из-за того, что не считает вероятным успешное завершение подготовки к пуску до конца февраля и даже марта. А потом, по его словам, "Вулкан" вытеснит с их общей стартовой площадки "Атлас 5" для первого пилотируемого полёта "Старлайнера". То есть это прогноз Бергера, а не официальная информация.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 13.02.2023 16:29:46
    Цитата: Arzach от 13.02.2023 16:22:47
    Цитата: Arzach от 13.02.2023 10:31:00
    Цитата: Mavik от 13.02.2023 00:57:12
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 12.02.2023 21:10:32Не знаю насколько это правда...
    Запуск ориентировочно в мае.
    Не знаю, откуда взялся май, но указанную в видео целевую дату - 25 февраля - и раньше озвучивали...
    Теперь понятно, откуда: целевой датой по-прежнему является 25 февраля, но Эрик Бергер высказал в своей статье (https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/when-will-united-launch-alliances-vulcan-rocket-fly/) "эмпирическую оценку", где накаркал:)предсказал перенос на май из-за того, что не считает вероятным успешное завершение подготовки к пуску до конца февраля и даже марта. А потом, по его словам, "Вулкан" вытеснит с их общей стартовой площадки "Атлас 5" для первого пилотируемого полёта "Старлайнера". То есть это прогноз Бергера, а не официальная информация.
    Что вам помешало перевести для местных доморощенных энтузиастов, не говорящих на английском, относящися к теме кусок из статьи Бергера, раз уж вы нашли ее?)

    "В ответ на запрос Ars представитель основного заказчика ракеты, Astrobotic, сообщил, что запуск миссии намечен на первый квартал 2023 года, то есть до конца марта.
    Представитель United Launch Alliance не уточнил сроки, заявив, что дата запуска будет установлена только после завершения дополнительных испытаний.

    Хотя официальной даты запуска нет, за последнюю неделю или две появились некоторые интересные подсказки, и поэтому можно сделать обоснованное предположение. Поскольку предстоит еще много работы, прежде чем ракета отправится в полет с мыса Канаверал разумной датой для запуска, на которую можно ориентироваться, является май 2023 года."
    52675487339_2d0a086ce0_c.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 13.02.2023 16:51:49
    Цитата: Mavik от 13.02.2023 16:29:46Что вам помешало перевести для местных доморощенных энтузиастов, не говорящих на английском, относящися к теме кусок из статьи Бергера, раз уж вы нашли ее?)
    То, что суть дела я оттуда пересказал, а у энтузиастов есть Яндекс-Переводчик. ;D И это вовсе не "обоснованное предположение", так как в его основе лежат некие "интересные подсказки", а именно его эмпирическая оценка, основанная на его же жизненных наблюдениях. 

    Спорить с ним не буду, так как многие его опасения обоснованы, но у ULA есть хороший стимул при отсутствии серьёзных проблем пустить "Вулкан" поперёд "Атласа". ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: zandr от 24.02.2023 09:41:41
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    #VulcanRocket update // The Cert-1 hardware is undergoing pre-launch processing in FL. Vulcan will undergo a series of flight readiness verification and tanking tests, culminating in an engine flight readiness firing.
    ·
    The engines are performing well. Engine qualification testing is taking longer than anticipated. The 6-week test program is taking us into mid April.
    ·
    Based on that window, we are targeting #VulcanRocket's first launch in May. We will continue to work our launch manifest with our customers to determine upcoming launch dates.
    Май.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 24.02.2023 10:58:34
    Цитата: zandr от 24.02.2023 09:41:41Май.
    Жаль. И скорее "NOT May".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: ухач от 24.02.2023 11:23:57
    Цитата: Arzach от 24.02.2023 10:58:34
    Цитата: zandr от 24.02.2023 09:41:41Май.
    Жаль. И скорее "NOT May".
    NOT или NET?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 24.02.2023 11:31:15
    Цитата: ухач от 24.02.2023 11:23:57NOT или NET?
    Спасибо за поправку. NET, конечно же.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 24.02.2023 11:39:18

    ЦитироватьStephen Clark @StephenClark1
    По словам (Тори) Бруно, испытания летного экземпляра ракеты «Вулкан» в Центре вертикальной интеграции на мысе (Канаверал) проходят хорошо. ULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: ухач от 24.02.2023 12:20:13
    Цитата: Arzach от 24.02.2023 11:39:18
    ЦитироватьStephen Clark @StephenClark1
    По словам (Тори) Бруно, испытания летного экземпляра ракеты «Вулкан» в Центре вертикальной интеграции на мысе (Канаверал) проходят хорошо.
    ULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта
    из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.

    И до туда Глушко дотянулся своим БХ.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 24.02.2023 15:52:34
    ЦитироватьStephen Clark @StephenClark1
    По словам (Тори) Бруно, испытания летного экземпляра ракеты «Вулкан» в Центре вертикальной интеграции на мысе (Канаверал) проходят хорошо.
    ULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта
    из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.

    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 04:19:45Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Тут, как вы понимаете, вопрос не в толщине. Вопрос в двигателях.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59
    Цитата: Mavik от 24.02.2023 15:52:34
    ЦитироватьStephen Clark @StephenClark1
    По словам (Тори) Бруно, испытания летного экземпляра ракеты «Вулкан» в Центре вертикальной интеграции на мысе (Канаверал) проходят хорошо.
    ULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта
    из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.

    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 04:19:45Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Тут, как вы понимаете, вопрос не в толщине. Вопрос в ддвигателях.
    Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 25.02.2023 14:09:00
    Цитата: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59
    Цитата: Mavik от 24.02.2023 15:52:34
    ЦитироватьStephen Clark @StephenClark1
    По словам (Тори) Бруно, испытания летного экземпляра ракеты «Вулкан» в Центре вертикальной интеграции на мысе (Канаверал) проходят хорошо.
    ULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта
    из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.

    Цитата: nonconvex от 13.02.2023 04:19:45Похоже черепаха Безоса таки обгонит модного зайца.
    Тут, как вы понимаете, вопрос не в толщине. Вопрос в ддвигателях.
    Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Главный заказчик не одобрил бы. Нарушается принцип redundancy - наличие двух независимых систем.
    Да и не дело это - бросать поддержку Блю только потому, что у них новый двигатель задерживается. Не так много мощных космических компаний "new space" в Штатах, чтобы разбрасываться ими.
    Это Роскосмос может себе позволить утопить S7 Space, думая что таких у него еще тыща будет. Другого Безоса, готового вкладывать в космос по миллиарду своих личных денег в год может и не быть больше, кто бы что про него не шутил.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41
    Цитата: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Сколько говорите секунд проработал ваш "Раптор" на 105-процентной тяге?

    Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 25.02.2023 20:42:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.

    Метан? Многоразовое включение? Глубокое дросселирование?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 20:55:13
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 25.02.2023 20:42:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.

    Метан? Многоразовое включение? Глубокое дросселирование?

    Метан не нужен, достаточно керосина. Многократное включение и дросселирование - Центавр.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дем от 26.02.2023 00:53:48
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 20:55:13Метан не нужен, достаточно керосина. Многократное включение и дросселирование - Центавр.
    Так это опять ихний движок.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Дем от 26.02.2023 17:57:14
    ЦитироватьULA не сможет реализовать предыдущую целевую дату запуска в конце марта из-за проблемы, возникшей во время квалификационных испытаний двигателя Blue Origin BE-4.
    Два двигателя BE-4, поставленные компанией Blue Origin для первой ступени ракеты, будут подвергнуты дополнительной проверке: по сравнению с предсерийными экземплярами, у них оказалась слегка увеличенная (примерно на 5%) мощность насоса подачи окислителя (т.е. жидкого кислорода).
    Не рассчитали немножко  :-X
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Георгий от 01.03.2023 21:23:54
    обсуждалось ли? Юла продается
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/sources-say-prominent-us-rocket-maker-united-launch-alliance-is-up-for-sale/

    Потецниальные покупатели - Локхид Мартин, Боинг, Безос,  Northrop Grumman
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 02.03.2023 01:27:29
    Цитата: Георгий от 01.03.2023 21:23:54обсуждалось ли? Юла продается
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/sources-say-prominent-us-rocket-maker-united-launch-alliance-is-up-for-sale/

    Потецниальные покупатели - Локхид Мартин, Боинг, Безос,  Northrop Grumman
    Не справились, значит, с двигателями.

    Aerojet Rocketdyne тоже недавно купили, L3Harris.

    Если так дело и дальше пойдет, то летать будет не на чем, придется к Роскосмосу на поклон, с богатыми дарами. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 02.03.2023 12:59:23
    Цитата: Георгий от 01.03.2023 21:23:54обсуждалось ли? Юла продается
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/sources-say-prominent-us-rocket-maker-united-launch-alliance-is-up-for-sale/

    Потецниальные покупатели - Локхид Мартин, Боинг

    Сами у себя купят? А смысл?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: BlackMokona от 02.03.2023 14:34:15
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 02.03.2023 12:59:23
    Цитата: Георгий от 01.03.2023 21:23:54обсуждалось ли? Юла продается
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/03/sources-say-prominent-us-rocket-maker-united-launch-alliance-is-up-for-sale/

    Потецниальные покупатели - Локхид Мартин, Боинг

    Сами у себя купят? А смысл?

    ULA это союз Боинга и Локхида. Поэтому одна из компаний может решить уйти , а вторая выкупить её долю. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Искандер от 03.03.2023 13:31:22
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41
    Цитата: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Сколько говорите секунд проработал ваш "Раптор" на 105-процентной тяге?

    Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.
    Цель достигнуть 250т тяги поставлена в многоразовом применении.
    На первые пуски можно летать с недогрузом.
    И при чем тут "ерунда"?
    Тут политика и больше ничего.
    А политику мы тут не обсуждаем.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 05.03.2023 21:40:51
    Цитата: Искандер от 03.03.2023 13:31:22
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41
    Цитата: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Сколько говорите секунд проработал ваш "Раптор" на 105-процентной тяге?

    Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.
    Цель достигнуть 250т тяги поставлена в многоразовом применении.

    Кем поставлена? ULA в основном работает на военных, военным многоразовость не нужна.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 05.03.2023 22:28:34
    Цитата: nonconvex от 05.03.2023 21:40:51
    Цитата: Искандер от 03.03.2023 13:31:22
    Цитата: nonconvex от 25.02.2023 18:02:41
    Цитата: Искандер от 25.02.2023 05:02:59Не занимались б ерундой, купили б Раптор у иксов, и не мучились...
    Сколько говорите секунд проработал ваш "Раптор" на 105-процентной тяге?
    Не занимались б ерундой - летали бы на РД-180 и в ус не дули бы.
    Цель достигнуть 250т тяги поставлена в многоразовом применении.
    Кем поставлена? ULA в основном работает на военных, военным многоразовость не нужна.
    РД-180 американским военным нужен еще меньше :)

    U.S. Space Force реально хочет совсем другого:

    "Мы должны достигнуть точки, когда мы сможем запустить ракету не позднее чем через 24 часа после выдачи приказа», — сказал Бригадный генерал Стивен Парди, исполнительный директор программы космических сил по гарантированному доступу в космос.
    Выполенение запуска за 24 часа «сейчас почти невозможно», сказал он. — Но нам нужно добраться до такого режима.

    Идея быстрого космического запуска (tactical responsive space) обсуждалась в течение многих лет, но теперь она привлекает внимание благодаря поддержке Конгресса и отрасли, а также мировым событиям, которые продемонстрировали стратегическую ценность спутников, сделав их более привлекательными целями".

    "Генерал Джеймс Дикинсон, глава Космического командования США, сказал, что вооруженные силы США должны использовать более гибкие коммерчески доступные площадки и РН, которые могут работать из разных мест. По его словам, учитывая недавние достижения Китая и России в области противоспутникового оружия, во время конфликта, скорее всего, потребуется оперативный запуск для увеличения созвездия или замены поврежденных спутников."

    https://spacenews.com/launch-on-demand-if-satellites-are-shot-down-will-space-force-be-ready-to-restock/

    Ближе всего в выполнению подобного подошла как раз SpaceX, с их запусками F9 в среднем раз в 4 дня.
    А достигли они этого благодаря как раз-таки многоразовости.

    Давайте, расскажите еще прохладных историй про то, что "военным многоразовость не нужна".
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 06.03.2023 06:45:32
    Цитата: Mavik от 05.03.2023 22:28:34Ближе всего в выполнению подобного подошла как раз SpaceX, с их запусками F9 в среднем раз в 4 дня.
    А достигли они этого благодаря как раз-таки многоразовости.

    Давайте, расскажите еще прохладных историй про то, что "военным многоразовость не нужна".

    Безусловно не нужна. Для того чтобы иметь возможность запустить ПН за 24 часа нужно иметь РН на старте, и совершенно неважно, новая она или восстановленная. Имея определенный запас на складе это вполне можно организовать. Проблему тут скорее в подготовке наземки, включая ее заправку криогенными компонентами.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Mavik от 06.03.2023 15:55:43
    Цитата: nonconvex от 06.03.2023 06:45:32
    Цитата: Mavik от 05.03.2023 22:28:34Ближе всего в выполнению подобного подошла как раз SpaceX, с их запусками F9 в среднем раз в 4 дня.
    А достигли они этого благодаря как раз-таки многоразовости.

    Давайте, расскажите еще прохладных историй про то, что "военным многоразовость не нужна".

    Безусловно не нужна. Для того чтобы иметь возможность запустить ПН за 24 часа нужно иметь РН на старте, и совершенно неважно, новая она или восстановленная. Имея определенный запас на складе это вполне можно организовать. Проблему тут скорее в подготовке наземки, включая ее заправку криогенными компонентами.
    Частота запусков имеет куда более важную роль. 
    Что толку от того, что где-то на складе сейчас якобы находится десяток Протонов, если они летают раз в год? 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 07.03.2023 03:34:04
    Цитата: Mavik от 06.03.2023 15:55:43
    Цитата: nonconvex от 06.03.2023 06:45:32
    Цитата: Mavik от 05.03.2023 22:28:34Ближе всего в выполнению подобного подошла как раз SpaceX, с их запусками F9 в среднем раз в 4 дня.
    А достигли они этого благодаря как раз-таки многоразовости.

    Давайте, расскажите еще прохладных историй про то, что "военным многоразовость не нужна".

    Безусловно не нужна. Для того чтобы иметь возможность запустить ПН за 24 часа нужно иметь РН на старте, и совершенно неважно, новая она или восстановленная. Имея определенный запас на складе это вполне можно организовать. Проблему тут скорее в подготовке наземки, включая ее заправку криогенными компонентами.
    Частота запусков имеет куда более важную роль.
    Что толку от того, что где-то на складе сейчас якобы находится десяток Протонов, если они летают раз в год?
    Еще раз, по буквам. Для военных важна о-п-е-р-а-т-и-в-н-о-с-т-ь. Возникла у них срочная надобность рассмотреть какие нибудь Малые Козявки в нужном спектре - достают со склада подходящий борт и соответственно РН под него, и чтобы за три дня все улетело. Частота запусков скорее нужна производителям ширпотреба, чтобы успевать этот ширпотреб менять по мере рассыпания.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: BlackMokona от 07.03.2023 10:26:55
    Цитата: nonconvex от 07.03.2023 03:34:04
    Цитата: Mavik от 06.03.2023 15:55:43
    Цитата: nonconvex от 06.03.2023 06:45:32
    Цитата: Mavik от 05.03.2023 22:28:34Ближе всего в выполнению подобного подошла как раз SpaceX, с их запусками F9 в среднем раз в 4 дня.
    А достигли они этого благодаря как раз-таки многоразовости.

    Давайте, расскажите еще прохладных историй про то, что "военным многоразовость не нужна".

    Безусловно не нужна. Для того чтобы иметь возможность запустить ПН за 24 часа нужно иметь РН на старте, и совершенно неважно, новая она или восстановленная. Имея определенный запас на складе это вполне можно организовать. Проблему тут скорее в подготовке наземки, включая ее заправку криогенными компонентами.
    Частота запусков имеет куда более важную роль.
    Что толку от того, что где-то на складе сейчас якобы находится десяток Протонов, если они летают раз в год?
    Еще раз, по буквам. Для военных важна о-п-е-р-а-т-и-в-н-о-с-т-ь. Возникла у них срочная надобность рассмотреть какие нибудь Малые Козявки в нужном спектре - достают со склада подходящий борт и соответственно РН под него, и чтобы за три дня все улетело. Частота запусков скорее нужна производителям ширпотреба, чтобы успевать этот ширпотреб менять по мере рассыпания.
    Вынимают гражданский спутник и ставят свой и вуаля улетел уже на следующие сутки. Так как идёт непрерывный, отлаженный и конвейерный процесс пусков.  :)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 11.03.2023 20:16:56
    Цитата: Arzach от 11.03.2023 20:15:04ULA (@ulalaunch): во Флориде жарко, но РН Vulcan покрывается инеем! В рамках подготовки к первому сертификационному пуску РН Vulcan пусковой расчет ULA провел первую демонстрацию заправки на стартовой площадке.

    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=30674;image)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Veganin от 27.03.2023 15:59:10
    Открыта снова.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 30.03.2023 09:55:15
    Произошла аномалия во время стресс-теста водородного Центавра для Вулкана.

    ЦитироватьTory Bruno
    ..
     During Qual testing of Centaur V structural article at MSFC, the hardware experienced an anomaly.
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1641270272987676672?t=xEPRBZG-Qd1SAzm6oKTSHg&s=19
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 30.03.2023 13:54:26
    Цитата: azvoz от 30.03.2023 09:55:15Произошла аномалия во время стресс-теста водородного Центавра для Вулкана.

    ЦитироватьTory Bruno
    ..
     During Qual testing of Centaur V structural article at MSFC, the hardware experienced an anomaly.
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1641270272987676672?t=xEPRBZG-Qd1SAzm6oKTSHg&s=19
    Не было там никакой "аномалии", было отклонение результатов испытаний от расчетных значений. Но ситуация достаточно странная (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2535710). 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 30.03.2023 15:31:14
    Цитата: Arzach от 30.03.2023 13:54:26
    Цитата: azvoz от 30.03.2023 09:55:15Произошла аномалия во время стресс-теста водородного Центавра для Вулкана.

    ЦитироватьTory Bruno
    ..
     During Qual testing of Centaur V structural article at MSFC, the hardware experienced an anomaly.
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1641270272987676672?t=xEPRBZG-Qd1SAzm6oKTSHg&s=19
    Не было там никакой "аномалии", было отклонение результатов испытаний от расчетных значений. Но ситуация достаточно странная (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2535710).
    Так это и есть аномалия
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 30.03.2023 18:11:32
    Цитата: azvoz от 30.03.2023 15:31:14Так это и есть аномалия
    Нет. Вот когда "аномалия" появится в отраслевой регламентирующей документации и станет привычным профессиональным понятием для РКТ - тогда, да. А пока это тупо подстрочник с английского.

    Хотя никто не запрещает кому-то пользоваться этим термином - лексика высказывающегося достаточно полно характеризует уровень его познаний в описываемом предмете. ;)
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 31.03.2023 01:05:16
    Цитата: Arzach от 30.03.2023 18:11:32
    Цитата: azvoz от 30.03.2023 15:31:14Так это и есть аномалия
    Нет. Вот когда "аномалия" появится в отраслевой регламентирующей документации и станет привычным профессиональным понятием для РКТ - тогда, да. А пока это тупо подстрочник с английского.

    Хотя никто не запрещает кому-то пользоваться этим термином - лексика высказывающегося достаточно полно характеризует уровень его познаний в описываемом предмете. ;)
    Аномалия вполне корректный термин в этом случае с Центавром Вулкана.
    ==
    Аномалия — отклонение от нормы, неправильность.
    ==
    Этот термин смешон в случаях с авариями откровенно взрывного типа, а тут то что не так?
    Сами же себя подкалываете, а не оппонента.


    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 31.03.2023 14:38:49
    Цитата: azvoz от 31.03.2023 01:05:16Аномалия — отклонение от нормы, неправильность.
    ==
    Этот термин смешон в случаях с авариями откровенно взрывного типа, а тут то что не так?
    Написал же, что не так. Если в США для авиационно-космической сферы термин "anomaly" является вполне конкретным общепринятым техническим термином, то в РФ такого же в отношении "аномалии" нет. Приведёте пример отечественного стандарта или технической документации по РКТ с определением или хотя бы употреблением термина "аномалия" в таком смысле?

    Это всё от лени самозваных переводчиков - так и до "митинга генеральных дизайнеров по аномалии прогресса" недалеко.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 31.03.2023 17:25:42
    Цитата: Arzach от 31.03.2023 14:38:49Приведёте пример отечественного стандарта или технической документации по РКТ с определением или хотя бы употреблением термина "аномалия" в таком смысле?

    Это всё от лени самозваных переводчиков - так и до "митинга генеральных дизайнеров по аномалии прогресса" недалеко.
    честно говоря, не вижу в этом конкретном случае никакой проблемы
    слово вполне понятное, в заблуждение не вводит
    а что не по ГОСТу - да и черт с ним
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 31.03.2023 17:38:06
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 31.03.2023 17:25:42не вижу в этом конкретном случае никакой проблемы
    А я вижу, потому как четкого определения нет, и каждый трактует в меру своей испорченности. В данном конкретном случае речь, очевидно, идет, как я писал выше, об отклонении результатов механических испытаний прототипа второй ступени "Вулкана" от ожидаемых расчетных. А "аномалию" по-русски новоявленные "эксперты" лепят на что угодно, включая, например, и лопающиеся баки SS/SH от Маска при испытаниях на предельную нагрузку, и взрывы первых Старшипов. 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Seliv от 08.04.2023 06:46:49
    Цитата: Arzach от 30.03.2023 13:54:26Не было там никакой "аномалии", было отклонение результатов испытаний от расчетных значений.
    Можно, конечно, сказать и так

    photo_2023-04-08_04-18-52.jpg
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.04.2023 11:28:46
    Цитата: Seliv от 08.04.2023 06:46:49Можно, конечно, сказать и так
    Just a scratch. (c) Илон Маск

    Первая мысль: "вроде бы 1 апреля уже прошло". Интересно, зачем Тори Бруно попытался скрыть масштабы, назвав это "отклонением"? Такое масштабное событие скрыть нельзя, а когда, вот, выплыло, это только ухудшит репутацию.

    Это Бергер ULA заложил: "Что касается "отклонения" при испытаниях Centaur V, произошедшего на прошлой неделе, вот фотография взрыва, произошедшего в Центре космических полетов имени Маршалла. Удачи ULA в расследовании и в осуществлении миссии Vulcan Cert-1."

    Тори комментирует: "Большая часть того, что вы видите, - это изоляция и мелкие обломки испытательного стенда. Один кусок купола водородного бака площадью около фута оказался в нескольких футах от него. Изделие для испытаний все еще находится внутри установки и практически не повреждено, что существенно поможет в расследовании."

    ЦитироватьMost of what you're seeing is insulation and smaller bits from the test rig. One piece of the hydrogen tank's dome, about a foot square,  ended up a few feet away. The test article is still inside the rig and largely intact, which will significantly help with the investigation.


    То есть получается взорвался баллон с водородом на стенде, а не сама ступень?
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.04.2023 12:18:10
    В статье в Ars Techinca (https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/ula-continues-investigation-of-centaur-stage-anomaly/) раскрыты новые подробности - некоторые из них:

    PS: Касательно первого пункта Бергер дал разъяснение:
    ЦитироватьПросто чтобы прояснить этот вопрос: ULA утверждает, что они *не* просили Blue Origin удалить видео "отклонения" при испытаниях Centaur с их серверов. Возможно, нет. Но видео было заблокировано вскоре после того, как ULA попросила Blue "обеспечить безопасность". Никто не обсуждает того, что было показано на видео.

    А сам Бурно написал так:
    ЦитироватьКомпания Blueorigin - отличный партнер. Они сразу же связались с нами, чтобы сообщить, что записали это событие со своего стенда, и предложили любую необходимую помощь. Мы попросили их ограничить доступ к видео, отправить его копию в NASA, чтобы они переслали ее нам (таков протокол).

    ВОПРОС К МОДЕРАТОРАМ: А может вынести всё, что касается конкретно РН "Вулкан" в отдельную тему? У всех РН есть свои профильные темы, а у "Вулкана" - нет.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 08.04.2023 12:51:15
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 12:18:10ВОПРОС К МОДЕРАТОРАМ: А может вынести всё, что касается конкретно РН "Вулкан" в отдельную тему? У всех РН есть свои профильные темы, а у "Вулкана" - нет.
    В принципе верно, но 
    1) последние несколько лет в эту тему идут комменты только про Вулкан
    2) отделять из мешанины комментов, те что посвящены Вулкану - лишний и неблагодарный труд.

    Поэтому предлагаю добавить в название этой темы " РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle ".
    Это заодно облегчит поиск как на форуме, так и с внешних поисковиков.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.04.2023 13:00:59
    Цитата: Seliv от 08.04.2023 06:46:49[url="https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=31880;type=preview;file"]photo_2023-04-08_04-18-52.jpg[/url]
    Похоже на вулкан, кстати.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.04.2023 13:11:14
    Цитата: azvoz от 08.04.2023 12:51:15
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 12:18:10ВОПРОС К МОДЕРАТОРАМ: А может вынести всё, что касается конкретно РН "Вулкан" в отдельную тему? У всех РН есть свои профильные темы, а у "Вулкана" - нет.
    В принципе верно, но
    1) последние несколько лет в эту тему идут комменты только про Вулкан
    2) отделять из мешанины комментов, те что посвящены Вулкану - лишний и неблагодарный труд.

    Поэтому предлагаю добавить в название этой темы " РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle ".
    Это заодно облегчит поиск как на форуме, так и с внешних поисковиков.
    Вообще тут примерно до середины прошлого года сплошной и бесполезный флуд про РД-180 с редкими вкраплениями про BE-4. Про "Вулкан" более-менее регулярно начали говорить где-то как раз тогда, то есть когда ULA начали передавать первые BE-4. На мой взгляд, достаточно прошерстить 5-7 страниц темы. Готов помочь в этом, кстати.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: pkl от 08.04.2023 13:28:28
    А ссылки на видео гм... "аномалии" никто не находил? Или хоть фотографий?

    Вообще, конечно, термин тот ещё. :-\ Хорошо хоть не хлопок 
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 08.04.2023 13:28:50
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 11:28:46То есть получается взорвался баллон с водородом на стенде, а не сама ступень?
    Нет, похоже, лопнул водородный бак центавра. Улетел кусок его днища, вместе с теплоизоляцией, прихватив части стенда. А водород сгорел.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: azvoz от 08.04.2023 15:31:54
    Новые подробности аномалии во время испытания ступени ракеты Vulcan
    SpaceXApril 08, 2023

    https://telegra.ph/Novye-podrobnosti-anomalii-vo-vremya-ispytaniya-stupeni-rakety-Vulcan-04-08
    Цитировать29 марта в Центре им. Маршалла в Алабаме во время испытания 2-й ступени ракеты Vulcan - Centaur V, произошёл взрыв.

    "Тестовое изделие было загружено водородом, который полностью выгорел", — так, в высшей степени обтекаемо,
    обозвал это событие глава ULA Тори Бруно.
    "Большая часть того, что вы видите (на кадре из видео), — это изоляция и мелкие части испытательного стенда. Одна часть днища водородного бака, площадью около 0,3 м2, после инцидента была найдена рядом со ступенью. Тестовое изделие всё ещё находится внутри стенда и практически не повреждено, что значительно поможет в расследовании инцидента",
    — добавил Тори.
    Однако сразу несколько источников заявили, что на объекте компании произошёл сильный взрыв, в результате чего на место были вызваны несколько спасателей.
    Никто не пострадал, но очевидцы сообщили о "столбе горящего водорода, который превратился в грибовидное облако, затмившее испытательный стенд. Он определенно был больше, чем просто повреждён".

    Интересно, что взрыв был заснят на видеокамеры компании Blue Origin, которая занимается ремонтом близлежащего испытательного стенда в 100 метрах от места инцидента. После этого, по словам двух источников, ULA попросила Blue Origin "защитить" данное видео, удалив видеозапись взрыва со своих внутренних серверов и зарезервировав доступ к нему только для нескольких сотрудников компании, на что Blue Origin - согласилась. Однако версия этого пикантного момента от Тони Бруно заметно отличается: "Blue Origin сразу же связались с нами, чтобы сообщить, что зафиксировали это событие, и предложили любую необходимую помощь. Мы попросили их сохранить видео и отправить копию в NASA, чтобы затем выслать нам и подкрепить к протоколу расследования".

    Так или иначе, вопросов по этой аномалии остаётся ещё много.
    Например, не очень понятно, какую именно ступень Centaur V тестировали в Алабаме.
    Была ли она лётная, для будущей миссии, или прототип, используемый для тестирования и разработки?

    Сразу после аварии Тори предположил, что очень маловероятно, что всё это будет иметь последствия для ступени, которая в настоящее время находится во Флориде и планируется к полёту в рамках первого запуска ракеты.
    Однако для принятия любого решения по этому поводу необходимо будет дождаться завершения расследования данного инцидента.

    Ну и, конечно, Илон Маск просто не мог пройти мимо такого и не прокомментировать это в своей манере

    Elon Musk:

    — Просто царапина.
    New photo reveals extent of Centaur V anomaly explosion [Updated]
    by Eric Berger for Ars Technica
    (https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/04/ula-continues-investigation-of-centaur-stage-anomaly/)

    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.04.2023 16:15:11
    Цитата: opinion от 08.04.2023 13:28:50
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 11:28:46То есть получается взорвался баллон с водородом на стенде, а не сама ступень?
    Нет, похоже, лопнул водородный бак центавра. Улетел кусок его днища, вместе с теплоизоляцией, прихватив части стенда. А водород сгорел.
    Да, похоже на то. Только странно, что кусок этот ("площадью около фута" = грубо 30х30 см) улетел всего на "несколько футов", т.е. "пару метров". Видео бы посмотреть - взрыв ли это или все же быстрый пожар. По имеющимся сведениям выходит, что пожар (как при штатном старте Дельты, например). Накачали бак водорода сверх меры (испытывали как раз на прочность), он и лопнул, откинув кусок днища на пару метров, а водород просто быстро и красиво сгорел, попутно разметав изоляцию.   
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: opinion от 08.04.2023 18:53:01
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 16:15:11
    Цитата: opinion от 08.04.2023 13:28:50
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.04.2023 11:28:46То есть получается взорвался баллон с водородом на стенде, а не сама ступень?
    Нет, похоже, лопнул водородный бак центавра. Улетел кусок его днища, вместе с теплоизоляцией, прихватив части стенда. А водород сгорел.
    Да, похоже на то. Только странно, что кусок этот ("площадью около фута" = грубо 30х30 см) улетел всего на "несколько футов", т.е. "пару метров". Видео бы посмотреть - взрыв ли это или все же быстрый пожар. По имеющимся сведениям выходит, что пожар (как при штатном старте Дельты, например). Накачали бак водорода сверх меры (испытывали как раз на прочность), он и лопнул, откинув кусок днища на пару метров, а водород просто быстро и красиво сгорел, попутно разметав изоляцию. 
    Разрушение ёмкости под высоким давлением в любом случае будет выглядеть как взрыв. А назвать можно как угодно: "хлопок", "аномалия" или как-то ещё.

    Бруно написал в Твиттере, что вместо жидкого кислорода в баке окислителя был жидкий азот. Видимо, в качестве меры предосторожности. Поэтому не очень сильно бабахнуло.
    Название: Планов громадье в ULA
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.04.2023 22:17:45
    Цитата: opinion от 08.04.2023 18:53:01Бруно написал в Твиттере, что вместо жидкого кислорода в баке окислителя был жидкий азот. Видимо, в качестве меры предосторожности. Поэтому не очень сильно бабахнуло.
    Что-то не видел этого твита.

    А разрушение емкости может выглядеть именно как хлопок (https://www.universetoday.com/144365/watch-nasa-test-an-sls-tank-to-destruction/). Чтобы был настоящий взрыв с серьезной ударной волной нужно что-то, что добавит энергии для образования разрушительного скачка давления. А тут может быть так, что бак лопнул, водород резко высвободился, оторвав попутно часть изоляции, но загорелся лишь после этого, образовав тот самый гриб. Как еще можно объяснить, что изделие не разрушено, да и стенд, в общем, цел.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Seliv от 13.04.2023 21:11:34
    там новое видео
    https://twitter.com/torybruno/status/1646572389193625600

    экрана 2023-04-13 211035.png
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Seliv от 13.04.2023 21:18:35
    экрана 2023-04-13 211747.png
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 13.04.2023 22:22:12
    По-русски это выглядит примерно так:

    Цитировать(Инцидент произошел) вне испытательного стенда. Испытуемый объект находится внутри (на видео его не видно). Утечка водорода. Водород скопился внутри помещения стенда. Нашел источник возгорания. Сгорел быстро. Скачок давления прогнул передний купол (верхнее днище бака?) и повредил стенд.
    Интересно, что видимое пламя сгорающего водорода появилось после разрушения верхней части стенда:

    ULA_stand_blowup01.jpg

    ULA_stand_blowup02.jpg
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 13.04.2023 22:26:59
    То есть, если инцидент действительно вызван лишь утечкой водорода из оборудования стенда, то эта проблема не должна сказаться на дальнейших планах по "Вулкану", кроме задержки на проведение этого расследования. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 14.04.2023 02:39:27
    Водород очень любит утекать, очень низкая вязкость и маленькая молекулярная масса, в жидком виде утекает быстрее воды в 50!!! раз и в несколько раз быстрее воздуха в газообразном. И как всем известно легко детонирует в смеси с воздухом. Рабочий момент...
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 18.04.2023 19:07:02
    Есть новости?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: ухач от 18.04.2023 19:18:54
    Цитата: Димитър от 18.04.2023 19:07:02Есть новости?
    Не раньше июля
    https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2540879
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 17.05.2023 20:07:06
    Тори Бруно (@torybruno):
    ЦитироватьТори Бруно: Заправочные испытания РН Vulcan, прошедшие в прошлую пятницу и субботу, дали хорошие результаты. Потребуется настроить несколько параметров и уставок для надежного отсчета при предстартовом прожиге (что является целью этого испытания). Сегодня РН возвращается в МИК, чтобы мы поработали над этим. Предстартовый прожиг состоится через несколько дней или около того.

    Стивен Кларк: На конференции Humans to Mars вы упомянули, что ULA обнаружила утечку водорода, которая привела к нештатной ситуации при испытании ступени Centaur, в стальном резервуаре высокого давления. Была ли эта утечка на испытательном стенде или в испытуемом изделии Centaur?

    Тори Бруно: В ступени Centaur.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: lev_g от 26.05.2023 01:43:46
    Тори Бруно, о неудавшейся сегодня попытке статического прожига первой ступени: В ходе обратного отсчета была протестирована система зажигания BE–4. Тайминг и ответ [системы] выглядят неправильными, нам необходимо понять эту проблему. (https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1661835735765229576)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 28.05.2023 12:50:11
    Цитата: lev_g от 26.05.2023 01:43:46Тори Бруно, о неудавшейся сегодня попытке статического прожига первой ступени: В ходе обратного отсчета была протестирована система зажигания BE–4. Тайминг и ответ [системы] выглядят неправильными, нам необходимо понять эту проблему. (https://twitter.com/SciGuySpace/status/1661835735765229576)
    Старт еще раз откладывается...  :(
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 29.05.2023 15:05:15
    Цитата: https://spaceflightnow.com/2023/05/26/ula-delays-vulcan-test-firing-to-troubleshoot-engine-ignition-system/ULA откладывает огневые испытания РН Vulcan для устранения неполадок в системе зажигания двигателей

    ...
    Группы наземного обслуживания планировали запустить два двигателя BE-4 ракеты Vulcan производства Blue Origin на стартовой площадке в четверг вечером, но официальные лица ULA отложили огневые испытания и ракета была перевезена обратно в ангар для ремонтных работ.

    «Во время обратного отсчета инженеры заметили задержку срабатывания системы зажигания двигателей, которая требует дальнейшего изучения, прежде чем приступить к огневым испытаниям для подтверждения готовности к полету», — говорится в заявлении ULA в четверг. «Мы вернем ракету обратно в комплекс вертикальной сборки, чтобы получить доступ к системе запуска ракеты-носителя».

    В пятницу ULA доставила ракету на своей мобильной пусковой платформе обратно в комплекс вертикальной сборки. Компания не установила новую дату шестисекундного испытательного запуска двух двигателей BE-4 первой ступени, что является необходимым условием для первого запуска ракеты Vulcan Centaur, предназначенной для замены семейств ракет ULA Atlas и Delta.
    ...
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.06.2023 01:55:26
    На сегодня намечена очередная попытка огневых испытаний первой ступени РН Vulcan для подтверждения готовности к полёту. На данный момент - плановая задержка на Т-00:07:00.

    Прямая трансляция:
     
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 08.06.2023 04:12:43
    Красиво отработали ОИ.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: МБР от 08.06.2023 11:19:41
    Прожиг в конце видео на 3:13:20
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 14:10:28
    ЦитироватьПроизведён успешный огневой тест 1-й ступени ракеты Vulcan
    с двумя двигателями BE-4 от компании Blue Origin 🔥🔥

    Продолжительность теста составила 6 секунд.

    Несмотря на то, что расследование аварии со 2-й ступенью ракеты - продолжается,
    успешный огневой тест - важная веха на пути к первому запуску ракеты.

    Гонка ракет на метане на орбиту становится всё интереснее.
    Огласим весь список претендентов:
    — ZhuQue-2 от LandSpace (не ранее июня)
    — Vulcan от ULA (не ранее июля)
    — Starship от SpaceX (не ранее августа).
    t.me/spacex_rus/58373
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:07:08
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 14:10:28Гонка ракет на метане на орбиту становится всё интереснее.
    Огласим весь список претендентов:
    — ZhuQue-2 от LandSpace (не ранее июня)
    — Vulcan от ULA (не ранее июля)
    — Starship от SpaceX (не ранее августа).
    Забавная получается "гонка": ИЖ-каблук, Камаз и Белаз. ;D
    Отчего в подобных сообществах постоянно возникают идеи подобных высосанных из пальца соревнований?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 15:19:29
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:07:08Отчего в подобных сообществах постоянно возникают идеи подобных высосанных из пальца соревнований
    Без всякой иронии и тем более подколки, обратитесь в редакцию телеграм-канала SpaceX  t.me/spacex_rus (https://t.me/spacex_rus/58373) .
    Думаю там ответят на Ваш вопрос.
    И вообще людям свойственна вполне здоровая тяга к разным гонкам, рейтингам и иерархиям.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:31:27
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 15:19:29
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:07:08Отчего в подобных сообществах постоянно возникают идеи подобных высосанных из пальца соревнований
    Без всякой иронии и тем более подколки, обратитесь в редакцию телеграм-канала SpaceX  t.me/spacex_rus (https://t.me/spacex_rus/58373) .
    Думаю там ответят на Ваш вопрос.
    И вообще людям свойственна вполне здоровая тяга к разным гонкам, рейтингам и иерархиям.
    Смысла не вижу: им это кажется интересным, мне - глупым, кому-то ещё - захватывающим. "Пусть расцветают сто цветов...". А подобная тяга к сравнению несравнимого в данной области выглядит не очень здоровой с психологической точки зрения.  
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 15:40:20
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:31:27
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 15:19:29
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.06.2023 15:07:08Отчего в подобных сообществах постоянно возникают идеи подобных высосанных из пальца соревнований
    Без всякой иронии и тем более подколки, обратитесь в редакцию телеграм-канала SpaceX  t.me/spacex_rus (https://t.me/spacex_rus/58373) .
    Думаю там ответят на Ваш вопрос.
    И вообще людям свойственна вполне здоровая тяга к разным гонкам, рейтингам и иерархиям.
    Смысла не вижу: им это кажется интересным, мне - глупым, кому-то ещё - захватывающим. "Пусть расцветают сто цветов...". А подобная тяга к сравнению несравнимого в данной области выглядит не очень здоровой с психологической точки зрения. 

    Человек не стал бы человеком и, тем более, не создал бы цивилизацию, если бы не подобная тяга.
    А ваше "к сравнению несравнимого" это лишь эмоциональная оценка.
    И вообще непонятно ваше возмущение, тут очень много голосований.
    Причем очень странных на мой субъективный вкус.
    Но ещё более странным является заход в такую тему с критикой самого факта голосования.
    Про "средства выведения"? 
    Значит не оффтоп и пусть будет.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 08.06.2023 16:30:53
    Классно они конечно сняли процесс изготовления ракеты с пояснениями, рассказали про двигатель и показали разработчиков, хотелось бы и от SpaceX увидеть что-то подобное когда-нибудь...
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: mik73 от 08.06.2023 16:47:39
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 08.06.2023 15:19:29И вообще людям свойственна вполне здоровая тяга к разным гонкам, рейтингам и иерархиям.
    вот насчёт здоровой - не факт.  не зря же эта тяга называется словом "болеть".
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 13.06.2023 12:45:53
    "Единственное, что осталось перед полной сборкой РН Вулкан - повторный тест ступени Centaur V"
    ЦитироватьHi Tory, what remains to be done before final stacking and launch?
    --
    Tory Bruno @torybruno
    Literally the only thing left is to complete the qual test that was interrupted by the Centaur V anomaly.
    9:54 PM · Jun 12, 2023
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 15.06.2023 09:37:28
    "Два источника указывают, что 1й запуск Вулкана сдвигается на 4й квартал 2023"
    Цитироватьhttps://arstechnica.com/space/2023/06/vulcan-rocket-completes-critical-test-but-launch-slipping-toward-end-of-2023/

    The main update is here:
    Quote
    As part of their recent updates, neither Bruno nor United Launch Alliance established a new target launch date.
    Two sources indicated to Ars, however, that this flight likely would not occur before the fourth quarter of this year due to additional needed work.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 29.06.2023 14:41:55
    2й пуск Вулкана (первый полет космоплана Dream Chaser) намечен на начало 2024 года.
    Конфигурация VC4L (4 ТТУ GEM-63XL, 24600 кг ПН на НОО)
    https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/
    ЦитироватьEarly 2024 Vulcan Centaur • Dream Chaser 1
    Launch time: TBD
    Launch site: SLC-41, Cape Canaveral Space Force Station, Florida
    A United Launch Alliance Vulcan Centaur rocket will launch on its second demonstration flight with Sierra Space's Dream Chaser cargo vehicle for the International Space Station. The Dream Chaser is a lifting body resupply spacecraft that will launch on top of a rocket and land on a runway. This will be the Dream Chaser's first flight to space. The Vulcan Centaur rocket will fly in the VC4L configuration with four GEM-63XL solid rocket boosters, a long-length payload fairing, and two RL10 engines on the Centaur upper stage. Delayed from August 2022 and December 2023.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Dulevo от 11.07.2023 23:33:14
    Согласно источникам CNBC, один из ракетных двигателей BE-4 компании Blue Origin взорвался во время испытаний в Техасе 30 июня.

    Двигатель должен был быть доставлен в этом месяце в ULA для запуска Vulcan Cert-2.

    Jeff Bezos' Blue Origin BE-4 rocket engine explodes during testing (cnbc.com) (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/jeff-bezos-blue-origin-be-4-rocket-engine-explodes-during-testing.html)

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 12.07.2023 04:49:20
    Цитата: Dulevo от 11.07.2023 23:33:14один из ракетных двигателей BE-4 компании Blue Origin взорвался во время испытаний
    БХГ он и в Америке БХГ.
    ДОГГ для метанового движка это абсурд.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Boris Mekler от 12.07.2023 09:35:25
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 12.07.2023 04:49:20ДОГГ для метанового движка это абсурд.
    Почему?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Nitro от 13.07.2023 06:22:17
    Цитата: Boris  Mekler от 12.07.2023 09:35:25
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 12.07.2023 04:49:20ДОГГ для метанового движка это абсурд.
    Почему?
    У метана в молекуле всего один атом углерода
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Feol от 13.07.2023 20:01:45
    У них, кажется, признано не абсолютно полное решение вопроса с устойчивостью горения. Может быть, что высокая частота выскочила во всей красе.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: спец от 17.07.2023 07:55:08
    https://t.me/shotinfobar/442
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Искандер от 17.07.2023 10:52:32
    Цитата: Feol от 13.07.2023 20:01:45У них, кажется, признано не абсолютно полное решение вопроса с устойчивостью горения. Может быть, что высокая частота выскочила во всей красе.
    И умеренные параметры не помогли...
    Возникает закономерный вопрос: А был ли в умеренности смысл?
    Маск все время завышает первоначальные цели по давлению у Раптора, 230т ему мало, даёшь 270! И хоть в одноразовой версии, но ведь доведут же движки до продуктива...
    Вариант возможных событий - ещё годик мытарств с доводкой, м.б. взрыв на старте и придется ULA идти на поклон к SpaceX и компенсировать утяжеление второй ступени улучшением характеристик первой.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 17.07.2023 17:41:15
    Цитата: спец от 17.07.2023 07:55:08Шоты "баллистика"
    Автор, похоже, не имеет представления ни об испытаниях РКТ, ни о ПМИ, ни о прочих скучных штуках. Зато начитан о распилах и гении Маска.

    1. Прочность посчитана стандартным образом,швы качественные, а вот модели, на основе которых построен анализ, несколько отличаются от реальности. Об этом написано обсуждаемой статье. При этом следует отметить, что инцидент произошёл не во время штатной эксплуатации, а при нагрузочных испытаниях в ходе которых ступень подвергается гораздо более высоким нагрузкам, чем в полёте.

    2. Ну и как же тут обойтись без подтасовки - РН Vulcan в ее текущей конфигурации разрабатывается не с 2006, а с 2014 года.
    И, к слову, про "секрет" - все РН подобного класса и назначения делаются на бюджетные деньги.

    3. Ну и как тут не приплести Роскосмос? Обязательно приплетем!

    4.  "Как баллистик отвечу Бруно..."
    У нас здесь уже есть один "ракетостроитель" - а тут ещё "баллистик" подобного же уровня наклёвывается.

    5. См. п. 1.
    Вишенка получилась такая же фальшивая, как и то, что лепят на дёшевые "кооперативные" тортики.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: спец от 17.07.2023 21:39:13
    Да, наверняка так.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Евгений Б. от 26.10.2023 11:59:32
    ЦитироватьULA объявила дату 24 декабря
    https://lenta.ru/news/2023/10/25/nazvana-data-pervogo-puska-amerikanskoy-rakety-bez-rossiyskogo-rd-180/
    Цитировать
    Первый пуск ракеты Vulcan Centaur, которая должна заменить носитель Atlas 5 с российским двигателем РД-180, состоится 24 декабря. Соответствующую дату назвала компания United Launch Alliance (ULA). Об этом сообщает SpaceNews.
    Ракета Vulcan Centaur стартует с площадки на мысе Канаверал в американском штате Флорида. Резервные даты — 25 и 26 декабря. В ходе миссии Cert-1 планируется вывести в космос лунный посадочный модуль Peregrine, разработанный стартапом Astrobotic, и полезную нагрузку от компании Celestis.
    По словам исполнительного директора ULA Тори Бруно, установленная дата первого пуска Vulcan Centaur обусловлена требованиями Astrobotic.
    Перспективная ракета Vulcan Centaur должна заменить носитель Atlas 5. Первая оснащена американским двигателем BE-4, вторая — российским РД-180. Два однокамерных BE-4, устанавливаемых на первую ступень Vulcan Centaur, в совокупности позволят развить большую тягу, чем один двухкамерный РД-180 первой ступени Atlas 5. 
    В отличие от РД-180, работающего на керосине, BE-4 использует метан.
    Тема посвященная пуску Peregrine 
    https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2596392
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Rocinante от 14.11.2023 13:27:41
    https://x.com/_mgde_/status/1724154993203204508
    ЦитироватьThe final missing piece to Vulcan's first flight puzzle, Centaur V, has just arrived at Port Canaveral aboard 
    @ulalaunch's mightiest transportation vessel
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/351255.jpg)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 15.11.2023 19:56:40
    Ко второй части названия ветки: "Планов громадье в ULA".

    Вопрос сейчас в том, продадут ли ULA до запуска Вулкана 24 декабря 2023 года или после.
    Эрик Бергер следит за событиями:

    ULA IN PLAY —
    Sale of United Launch Alliance is nearing its end, with three potential buyers
    The sale would still have to be approved by the Federal Trade Commission.
    ERIC BERGER - 11/14/2023, 8:09 PM

    ULA В ИГРЕ -
    Продажа компании United Launch Alliance близится к завершению, уже есть три потенциальных покупателя.
    Продажу еще должна одобрить Федеральная торговая комиссия.
    ЭРИК БЕРГЕР - 11/14/2023, 8:09 PM
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/sale-of-united-launch-alliance-is-nearing-its-end-with-three-potential-buyers/ (https://arstechnica.com/space/2023/11/sale-of-united-launch-alliance-is-nearing-its-end-with-three-potential-buyers/)

    ЦитироватьКомпании Lockheed Martin и Boeing близки к выбору покупателя для United Launch Alliance, сообщили Ars два источника. Совместная ракетная компания, основанная в 2006 году и некоторое время обладавшая монополией на государственные контракты по запускам, была выставлена на продажу большую часть этого года.
    По словам источников, на компанию, базирующуюся в Колорадо, нашлись три покупателя. Среди них - фонд прямых инвестиций, принадлежащая Джеффу Безосу космическая компания Blue Origin и хорошо капитализированная аэрокосмическая фирма, заинтересованная в увеличении своего космического портфеля.
    Прецедент покупки пусковой компании фондом прямых инвестиций - как правило, группой инвесторов, которые приобретают компанию, реконструируют ее и затем перепродают. В начале 2022 г. AE Industrial Partners приобрела компанию Firefly, предоставляющую пусковые и космические услуги.
    Blue Origin также не является большой неожиданностью. Слухи о том, что эта космическая компания, принадлежащая Джеффу Безосу, может стать одним из потенциальных покупателей, ходили уже давно. Несмотря на некоторое совпадение их пусковых планов, приобретение United Launch Alliance позволит Безосу получить орбитальную ракету и гарантированные государственные контракты, которые он так жаждет получить. Приобретение United Launch Alliance также способствовало бы удовлетворению потребностей Amazon в запуске своих спутников Project Kuiper.
    Ars не называет имя третьего потенциального покупателя, поскольку подтвердить его не удалось. Эта аэрокосмическая компания в настоящее время не имеет большого объема космического бизнеса, но она стремится к стратегической экспансии в сферу государственных контрактов, которые United Launch Alliance имеет благодаря участию в программе запуска по линии национальной безопасности Министерства обороны.
    По данным двух источников, период продажи близится к завершению, и покупатель может быть объявлен в течение нескольких месяцев. Продажа должна быть одобрена Федеральной торговой комиссией и Министерством юстиции США, чтобы не допустить существенного снижения конкуренции в американской промышленности.
    Компания United Launch Alliance отказалась от комментариев для данной статьи в пользу своих материнских компаний - Lockheed и Boeing. "В целом, практика нашей компании заключается в том, чтобы не комментировать рыночные слухи и спекуляции", - заявил представитель Lockheed.
    В компании Boeing заявили примерно то же самое: "В соответствии с нашей корпоративной практикой, Boeing не комментирует возможные рыночные слухи или спекуляции относительно финансовой деятельности".

    Ожидание на Вулкане  ---  Waiting on Vulcan

    Впервые о том, что компания United Launch Alliance, или ULA, выставлена на продажу, Ars сообщил в марте. Участники сделки в течение нескольких месяцев не давали никаких комментариев по поводу продажи. Однако в октябре исполнительный директор ULA Тори Бруно заявил, что его компания может стать привлекательным объектом для приобретения.
    "Если бы я покупал космический бизнес, я бы посмотрел на ULA", - сказал Бруно. "Она уже проделала всю тяжелую работу по преобразованию. Вы же не покупаете викторианский дом с плохой сантехникой. Все уже сделано. Вы приходите в конце реконструкции и можете сосредоточиться на своем будущем". Эти слова были широко и правильно интерпретированы как подтверждение того, что ULA выставлена на продажу.
    Компания ULA была создана в 2006 году в результате слияния ракетной программы Delta компании Boeing и семейства ракет-носителей Atlas компании Lockheed Martin. С тех пор ULA является прибыльным предприятием для обоих аэрокосмических гигантов благодаря военным контрактам на запуски и крупным ежегодным субсидиям от Министерства обороны США на поддержание "готовности к запуску" для выполнения задач по обеспечению национальной безопасности.
    В последние годы доминирующее положение ULA в области запусков сначала было оспорено, а затем вытеснено компанией SpaceX и ее менее дорогой и очень надежной ракетой Falcon 9. Бруно, ставший генеральным директором ULA в 2016 году, сократил численность персонала и предпринял другие шаги по контролю расходов, например, закрыл редко используемые стартовые площадки.
    Однако наиболее важной инициативой Бруно стала разработка большой ракеты Vulcan, которая должна стать более конкурентоспособной по стоимости по сравнению с Falcon 9 и Falcon Heavy, а также устранить зависимость ULA от ракетных двигателей российского производства. В ракете-носителе Vulcan используется ракетный двигатель BE-4 производства компании Blue Origin.
    Дебют этой тяжелой ракеты-носителя в настоящее время запланирован на 24 декабря с космодрома на мысе Канаверал (штат Флорида). Пока неясно, будет ли отложено объявление о возможной продаже до этого запуска, который, скорее всего, будет успешным, учитывая, что ULA сделала ставку на надежность ракет-носителей.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 15.11.2023 20:29:18
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 26.10.2023 11:59:32Ракета Vulcan Centaur стартует с площадки на мысе Канаверал в американском штате Флорида. Резервные даты — 25 и 26 декабря. В ходе миссии Cert-1 планируется вывести в космос лунный посадочный модуль Peregrine, разработанный стартапом Astrobotic, и полезную нагрузку от компании Celestis.
    Интересная у них полезная нагрузка от компании Celestis: "В межпланетное пространство будут отправлены более 150 полетных капсул с кремированными останками (прахом), образцами ДНК и приветствиями от клиентов со всего мира. Миссия названа "Энтерпрайз" в честь Джина Родденберри и Мэйджел Барретт-Родденберри, а также Джеймса "Скотти" Духана, чей прах будет отправлен в этот полет на ракете, получившей подходящее название "Вулкан" и т.д.
    https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/2425 (https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/2425)

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 16.11.2023 05:14:08
    Цитата: andr59 от 15.11.2023 20:29:18
    Цитата: Евгений Б. от 26.10.2023 11:59:32Ракета Vulcan Centaur стартует с площадки на мысе Канаверал в американском штате Флорида. Резервные даты — 25 и 26 декабря. В ходе миссии Cert-1 планируется вывести в космос лунный посадочный модуль Peregrine, разработанный стартапом Astrobotic, и полезную нагрузку от компании Celestis.
    Интересная у них полезная нагрузка от компании Celestis: "В межпланетное пространство будут отправлены более 150 полетных капсул с кремированными останками (прахом), образцами ДНК и приветствиями от клиентов со всего мира. Миссия названа "Энтерпрайз" в честь Джина Родденберри и Мэйджел Барретт-Родденберри, а также Джеймса "Скотти" Духана, чей прах будет отправлен в этот полет на ракете, получившей подходящее название "Вулкан" и т.д.
    https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/2425 (https://nextspaceflight.com/launches/details/2425)


    А если до космоса не долетит, то план Б - распылит их в в верхних слоях атмосферы. Тоже неплохо для клиентов!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Pirat5 от 16.11.2023 07:37:19
    насколько я помню по информации почти 20-летней давности, Celestis не гарантирует вывод праха на орбиту, но гарантирует пуск в атмосферу.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 16.11.2023 07:57:07
    Цитата: Pirat5 от 16.11.2023 07:37:19насколько я помню по информации почти 20-летней давности, Celestis не гарантирует вывод праха на орбиту, но гарантирует пуск в атмосферу.
    Пуск метана в атмосферу безусловно состоится. Это вообще стало модно, видимо глобальное потепление сказывается.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 16.11.2023 10:29:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 16.11.2023 05:14:08А если до космоса не долетит, то план Б - распылит их в в верхних слоях атмосферы. Тоже неплохо для клиентов!
    Это их дела, но казалось бы первый запуск нового корабля, тем более к Луне, можно было бы обставить как то оптимистичней. С другой стороны, если считать запуск испытательным, можно везти все что угодно.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: wisefilinn от 09.12.2023 15:42:41
    ЦитироватьULA's Vulcan rocket is conducting its WDR (Wet Dress Rehearsal) at SLC-41.

    Watch live: https://t.co/tANS0dWyIH pic.twitter.com/gdmNH1y7go

    — Chris Bergin - NSF (@NASASpaceflight) December 8, 2023
    https://twitter.com/nasaspaceflight/status/1733216706619699657
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 09.12.2023 16:24:48
    Цитата: andr59 от 15.11.2023 20:29:18"В межпланетное пространство будут отправлены более 150 полетных капсул
    То есть этот в прямом смысле космический мусор будет болтаться в окрестностях орбиты Земли, пока не свалится обратно или не угробит какой-нибудь космический аппарат с Земли? Или его будут разгонять до 2-3-й космической? (Что конечно снизит вероятность, но не сделает её нулевой.) Печально будет, если какой-нибудь прапрапрапрапрадедушка настигнет своего прапрапрапраправнучка, летящего регулярным рейсом в свадебное путешествие на Марс.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 10.12.2023 22:57:45
    Цитата: Arzach от 10.12.2023 22:54:34По итогам WDR - перенос на следующий год.

    ЦитироватьTory Bruno (@torybruno)
    Обновление по итогам "мокрой" репетиции пуска РН Vulcan: ракета показала себя хорошо. В наземной системе была обнаружена пара (типичных) проблем, которые сейчас исправляются. Сроки растянулись так, что мы не успеваем закончить. Я бы хотел провести ПОЛНОЦЕННУЮ "мокрую" репетицию перед нашим первым полетом, так что (пуск в) канун Рождества, скорее всего, не состоится. Следующее окно для Peregrine - 8 января.
    Цитировать#VulcanRocket  WDR update:  Vehicle performed well.  Ground system had a couple of (routine) issues, (being corrected). Ran the timeline long so we didn't quite finish.  I'd like a FULL WDR before our first flight, so XMAS eve is likely out.  Next Peregrine window is 8 Jan.

    PS: То-то персонал ULA вздохнул свободно - хоть Рождество нормально отпразднуют. :D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 18.12.2023 06:48:32

    Цитировать8 января 2024 - первый полёт ракеты Vulcan Centaur от ULA, 
    запуск посадочного аппарата Peregrine от Astrobotic на отлётную траекторию к Луне.
    Текущий статус: 
    со второй попытки выполнен полный WDR тест ракеты, 
    t.me/spacex_rus/60970
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 05.01.2024 19:14:21
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 05.01.2024 19:14:31
    Толстяк  :)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 05.01.2024 22:45:37
    Тори Бруно опубликовал в Spotify "пусковой плейлист", посвященный первому пуску "Вулкана" - Vulcan Rock-it (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/7KQvHrsnh5HGJNPg08OeF5?si=9cec19335d7e42d4&nd=1&dlsi=fad1f16a857546b4) - аж из 108 композиций на 7 часов.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 06.01.2024 01:42:55
    А Центавр на Вулкане стальной или алюминиевый?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46
    стальной  :)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 06.01.2024 04:08:09
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46стальной  :)
    А где можно в этом убедиться?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 06.01.2024 04:17:52
    Цитата: amster от 06.01.2024 04:08:09
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46стальной  :)
    А где можно в этом убедиться?
    https://x.com/torybruno/status/1435553806792728579?s=61&t=j0Kn6ytqXrP3o-wIEZXFVA
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: algol5720 от 06.01.2024 04:20:18
    Цитата: amster от 06.01.2024 04:08:09
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46стальной  :)
    А где можно в этом убедиться?
    Нигде не убедитесь,потому что люминий и вафельной конструкции.Смотрел тут фильм,как его изготавливали. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 06.01.2024 06:18:35
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 04:17:52
    Цитата: amster от 06.01.2024 04:08:09
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46стальной  :)
    А где можно в этом убедиться?
    https://x.com/torybruno/status/1435553806792728579?s=61&t=j0Kn6ytqXrP3o-wIEZXFVA
    ---
    Цитата: algol5720 от 06.01.2024 04:20:18
    Цитата: amster от 06.01.2024 04:08:09
    Цитата: strat от 06.01.2024 02:01:46стальной  :)
    А где можно в этом убедиться?
    Нигде не убедитесь,потому что люминий и вафельной конструкции.Смотрел тут фильм,как его изготавливали.
    И чему верить?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 06.01.2024 09:14:06
    Однозначно сказано же главным, читайте коментанрии в твиттере....
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 06.01.2024 09:54:41
    Цитата: algol5720 от 06.01.2024 04:20:18Нигде не убедитесь,потому что люминий и вафельной конструкции.Смотрел тут фильм,как его изготавливали. 
    Просто этот фильм нужно посмотреть с 40й минуты ;)

    https://youtu.be/o0fG_lnVhHw

    Цитата: Schwalbe от 06.01.2024 01:42:55А Центавр на Вулкане стальной или алюминиевый?
    Конечно сталь
    сталь.jpg
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 07.01.2024 16:36:02
    Трансляция запуска ULA:

    Jan. 8 LIVE Broadcast: Vulcan Cert-1


    ЦитироватьРакета Vulcan VC2S компании United Launch Alliance (ULA) запустит первую сертификационную миссию со стартового комплекса Space Launch Complex-41 на космодроме на мысе Канаверал, штат Флорида. Летные испытания Cert-1 включают в себя две полезные нагрузки. Первая - лунный аппарат Peregrine Lunar Lander, Peregrine Mission One (PM1) для компании Astrobotic в рамках инициативы НАСА Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) по доставке научных и технологических разработок на лунную поверхность. Вторая полезная нагрузка - это мемориальная космическая миссия Celestis deep space Voyager, известная как полет "Энтерпрайза".
    Дата запуска: 8 января 2024 г.
    Время запуска: 2:18 утра по восточному времени.
    Или 10:18 мск.

    Начало трансляции 9:30 мск.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 07.01.2024 16:42:11
    Большая и интересная статья Эрика Бергера в Арс Технике .

    As Vulcan nears debut, it's not clear whether ULA will live long and prosper
    This marks an absolutely pivotal moment for the 20-year-old launch company.
    ERIC BERGER - 1/5/2024, 7:51 PM

    В преддверии дебюта Vulcan неясно, будет ли ULA жить долго и процветать
    Это абсолютно поворотный момент для 20-летней компании по производству ракет-носителей.
    ЭРИК БЕРГЕР - 5 января 2024, 7:51 PM
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/with-vulcans-liftoff-imminent-united-launch-alliance-flies-into-uncertain-future/ (https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/01/with-vulcans-liftoff-imminent-united-launch-alliance-flies-into-uncertain-future/)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Dulevo от 07.01.2024 16:53:48
    Из статьи:

    >>>Boeing blocked efforts to develop propellant depots to store cryogenic fuels in space because it worried
    refueled launch vehicles would compete with the Space Launch System rocket.

    "We had released a series of papers showing how a depot/refueling architecture would enable a human exploration
    program using existing (at the time) commercial rockets," a former ULA physicist, George Sowers, has said.
    But it was shut down because it threatened SLS.

    >>>Компания Boeing заблокировала усилия по созданию складов топлива для хранения криогенного топлива в космосе из-за беспокойства, что
    ракеты-носители с дозаправкой будут конкурировать с ракетой Space Launch System.

    «Мы выпустили серию статей, показывающих, как архитектура депо/заправки позволит человеку исследовать программа с использованием существующих (на тот момент) коммерческих ракет», — сказал бывший физик ULA Джордж Сауэрс.
    Но его закрыли, потому что это угрожало SLS.
    >>>

    Т.е программа СЛС не только поглотила гигантсткие средства. Она еще и заблокировала многие другие перспективные направления.
    Никакой пользы кроме вреда.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Большой от 07.01.2024 16:56:40
    Интересно, какая заправка топлива в 1-ю ступень?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: andr59 от 07.01.2024 17:17:11
    Цитата: Dulevo от 07.01.2024 16:53:48"We had released a series of papers showing how a depot/refueling architecture would enable a human exploration
    program using existing (at the time) commercial rockets," a former ULA physicist, George Sowers, has said.
    But it was shut down because it threatened SLS.
    И далее:  "But we were banned from even saying the 'd' word out loud."  --- "Но нам запретили даже произносить слово  на "d" вслух."
    Слово на "d", то есть  depot -- склад.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 07.01.2024 18:37:42
    Цитата: Dulevo от 07.01.2024 16:53:48Компания Boeing заблокировала усилия по созданию складов топлива для хранения криогенного топлива в космосе из-за беспокойства, что
    ракеты-носители с дозаправкой будут конкурировать с ракетой Space Launch System.
    ;D
    И как они запретят другим компаниям делять этого? 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 07.01.2024 18:50:41
    Цитата: Димитър от 07.01.2024 18:37:42
    Цитата: Dulevo от 07.01.2024 16:53:48Компания Boeing заблокировала усилия по созданию складов топлива для хранения криогенного топлива в космосе из-за беспокойства, что
    ракеты-носители с дозаправкой будут конкурировать с ракетой Space Launch System.
    ;D
    И как они запретят другим компаниям делять этого?
    другим никак.
    Но когда-то очень давно Боинг (кажется) делал нечто вроде эскизного проекта орбитальной заправки по заказу НАСА.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Большой от 07.01.2024 21:09:45
    20240107_210044.jpg
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 07:36:29
    Почему Vulcan — самая важная РН, которую когда-либо создавала ULA
    ==
    Why Vulcan is the Most Important Rocket ULA Has Ever Built
    Scott Manley
    https://youtu.be/Eb2r-Brnq6s
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 09:35:20
    Старт в 10:18 МСК

    Трансляция началась
    https://youtu.be/wZ6KTFMHenA
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: zandr от 08.01.2024 09:52:30
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    One hour until launch. Today's #Cert1 mission is the first of two flight tests of #VulcanRocket needed in the @SpaceForceDOD certification process before national security payloads are launched. ULA has works in close partnership with @USSF_SSC for assured access to space.
    Первое из двух лётных испытаний.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: zandr от 08.01.2024 09:53:18
    Пусковая тема
    Peregrine Mission One & Enterprise Flight – Vulcan Centaur VC2S / VC001 – CCSFS SLC-41 – 08.01.2024 07:18 UTC (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?topic=17101.0)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:18:09
    Циклограмма
    https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=41495
    (https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=41495)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:23:44
    Очень плохо, что в трансляции не показывают скорость и высоту
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56
    1я ступень успешно отработаля.
    Метановая эра наступила!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48
    Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков 
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:40:20
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56Метановая эра наступила!
    Метановая эра наступила еще в декабре - когда китайский Жук-2 вывел на орбиту ПН на метане!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:02
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:561я ступень успешно отработаля.
    Метановая эра наступила!
    Она наступила ещё 09.12.2023, когда  китайская ZQ-2 стала первой в истории человечества метановой ракетой, достигшей орбиты.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:30
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    А оно надо?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:44:17
    Цитата: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:40:20
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56Метановая эра наступила!
    Метановая эра наступила еще в декабре - когда китайский Жук-2 вывел на орбиту ПН на метане!
    Там была смешная ПН, да и сама РН Жюк-2 не планируется основной рабочей лошадкой.

    А вот на РН Вулкан очень много чего завязано, причем не в отдаленных планах, а на ближайшее время.
    Плюс ускорятся работы по Нью-Гленну, у которого те же метановые движки БЕ-4
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:46:27
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:30А оно надо?
    НАДО !
    Хотя лично я уже ни на что не надеюсь ...  :(
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 10:48:16
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:30
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    А оно надо?
    Очень надо - на срочную замену дорогой и сложной РН Союз-2.

    Очень надо - в отличии от Ангары, Иртыша, МКС, нью-Буранов и прочего подобного вредительского хлама.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:04
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:48:16
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:30
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    А оно надо?
    Очень надо - на срочную замену дорогой и сложной РН Союз-2.

    Очень надо - в отличии от Ангары, Иртыша, МКС, нью-Буранов и прочего подобного вредительского хлама.
    "Дорогой и сложный" Союз-2 дешевле Фэлкон-9. Это к слову.
    Но зачем именно метан? Адекватную замену Союзу-2 можно получить и на керосине.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:58
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:44:17
    Цитата: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:40:20
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56Метановая эра наступила!
    Метановая эра наступила еще в декабре - когда китайский Жук-2 вывел на орбиту ПН на метане!
    Там была смешная ПН, да и сама РН Жюк-2 не планируется основной рабочей лошадкой.

    А вот на РН Вулкан очень много чего завязано, причем не в отдаленных планах, а на ближайшее время.
    Плюс ускорятся работы по Нью-Гленну, у которого те же метановые движки БЕ-4
    А Вулкун - это не "метановая" ракета, а смесь твердого топлива, метана и водорода с кислородом. ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: АниКей от 08.01.2024 10:53:17
    https://t.me/iv_mois/933
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 10:56:37
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:04"Дорогой и сложный" Союз-2 дешевле Фэлкон-9. Это к слову.

    Ничего что он легкий 8 тонный в отличии 17 тонного многоразового Фалькона-9 ?

    И не факт что 20 Союзов-2 будут дешевле 20 вторых ступеней Фалькона-9 + 1 первая + техобслуживание.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: fagot от 08.01.2024 11:00:54
    20 Союзов-2 это эквивалент по ПН 10 вторых ступеней Ф-9. И зарплаты немножечко различаются.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: fagot от 08.01.2024 11:03:01
    А вообще можно поздравить очередные "гнилые двигатели" с успешным полетом, и, надеюсь, РН в целом.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 11:03:33
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:58
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:44:17
    Цитата: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:40:20
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56Метановая эра наступила!
    Метановая эра наступила еще в декабре - когда китайский Жук-2 вывел на орбиту ПН на метане!
    Там была смешная ПН, да и сама РН Жюк-2 не планируется основной рабочей лошадкой.

    А вот на РН Вулкан очень много чего завязано, причем не в отдаленных планах, а на ближайшее время.
    Плюс ускорятся работы по Нью-Гленну, у которого те же метановые движки БЕ-4
    А Вулкун - это не "метановая" ракета, а смесь твердого топлива, метана и водорода с кислородом. ;D
    По детски наивные попытки запутать у Вас.
    1) Метановая ступень - ключевая часть РН Вулкан - и по размерам и по массе и по энергетике.
    2) Вулкан - плод чинушных компромиссов.
    По этой и причине в ней оставили старое говно - ТТУшные костыли и святой волшебный водород.
    Под давлением жадных лоббистов, типа, для поддержки производителей этого хлама.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:03:33
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:58
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:44:17
    Цитата: Димитър от 08.01.2024 10:40:20
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:56Метановая эра наступила!
    Метановая эра наступила еще в декабре - когда китайский Жук-2 вывел на орбиту ПН на метане!
    Там была смешная ПН, да и сама РН Жюк-2 не планируется основной рабочей лошадкой.

    А вот на РН Вулкан очень много чего завязано, причем не в отдаленных планах, а на ближайшее время.
    Плюс ускорятся работы по Нью-Гленну, у которого те же метановые движки БЕ-4
    А Вулкун - это не "метановая" ракета, а смесь твердого топлива, метана и водорода с кислородом. ;D
    По детски наивные попытки запутать у Вас.
    1) Метановая ступень - ключевая часть РН Вулкан - и по размерам и по массе и по энергетике.
    2) Вулкан - плод чинушных компромиссов.
    По этой и причине в ней оставили старое говно - ТТУшные костыли и святой волшебный водород.
    Под давлением жадных лоббистов, типа, для поддержки производителей этого хлама.

    Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации. Кроме того, твердое ьтопливо будет применяться и впредь, и компетенции в этом направлении необходимо сохранять. А Вы всё наивно сводите к "жадным лоббистам".
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:21:43
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 10:56:37
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:51:04"Дорогой и сложный" Союз-2 дешевле Фэлкон-9. Это к слову.

    Ничего что он легкий 8 тонный в отличии 17 тонного многоразового Фалькона-9 ?

    И не факт что 20 Союзов-2 будут дешевле 20 вторых ступеней Фалькона-9 + 1 первая + техобслуживание.

    О! Про про полезную нагрузку вспомнили! А то "только стоимость!" ;D
    Не факт и обратное.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 11:22:53
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:03:33ТТУшные костыли
    Это обеспечивает унифицированный ряд по грузоподъемности не сильно снижая надежность.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 08.01.2024 11:34:22
    Давайте вспомним как все началось!
    Когда полетел дешевый Фалкон-9 и стал отнимать ПН у других, вдруг все спохватились. И стали делать новые ракеты, которые должны били стать дешевле старых - Вулкан в США, Ариан-6 в Европе, Н-3 в Японии. Наконец, первая из них полетела! Теперя ждем Ариана-6 и Н-3.
    А также Нью Гленн, который уже весовой категории Фалкона-Хеви, если не мощнее. Теперь уже можно ожидать появлении тяжелых ПН, спроектированных под такие ракеты.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Raul от 08.01.2024 11:42:18
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:561я ступень успешно отработаля.
    Метановая эра наступила!
    Чтo? Там 1/3 метана с ТТУ костылями и выручалочкой в виде водородного Центавра - на который приходится 90% всей работы. Вот у LandSpace только метан и пуск со спутниками в 2023 году 8) .
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Raul от 08.01.2024 11:47:06
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Не приведи Господь делать такую глупость.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Raul от 08.01.2024 11:50:02
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:02ZQ-2
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 10:41:02
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:561я ступень успешно отработаля.
    Метановая эра наступила!
    Она наступила ещё 09.12.2023, когда  китайская ZQ-2 стала первой в истории человечества метановой ракетой, достигшей орбиты.
    Вместе со спутниками, а с макетом ПГ - 12.07.2023
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 11:22:53
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:03:33ТТУшные костыли
    Это обеспечивает унифицированный ряд по грузоподъемности не сильно снижая надежность.
    Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле. ТТУ я так понимаю всё равно остались бриллиантовыми не смотря на снижение цены.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47
    Цитата: Raul от 08.01.2024 11:42:18
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:26:561я ступень успешно отработаля.
    Метановая эра наступила!
    Чтo? Там 1/3 метана с ТТУ костылями и выручалочкой в виде водородного Центавра - на который приходится 90% всей работы. Вот у LandSpace только метан и пуск со спутниками в 2023 году 8) .
    Синофилы не умеют даже в арифметику.
    Какие ещё 1/3 метана?
    В Вулкане его более половины по массе.
    Метановая ступень - ключевая часть РН Вулкан - и по размерам и по массе и по энергетике.

    У Жюк-2 была смешная ПН, да и сама эта РН не планируется основной рабочей лошадкой.

    А вот на РН Вулкан очень много чего завязано,
      причем не в отдаленных планах, а на ближайшее время.
    Плюс ускорятся работы по Нью-Гленну,
    у которого те же метановые движки - БЕ-4

    Метановая эра наступила именно после запуска Вулкана.
    И именно после запуска Вулкана метановая тематика зашевелится даже в РФ.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 08.01.2024 11:58:48
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 11:22:53
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:03:33ТТУшные костыли
    Это обеспечивает унифицированный ряд по грузоподъемности не сильно снижая надежность.
    Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле. ТТУ я так понимаю всё равно остались бриллиантовыми не смотря на снижение цены.
    - по сравнению с БХГ , они так, мелкий жемчуг ...  ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Raul от 08.01.2024 12:01:42
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Синофилы не умеют даже в арифметику.
    Узнал, узнал. ;D Привет, azvoz!

    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Какие ещё 1/3 метана?
    В Вулкане его более половины по массе.
    Узнайте, как соотносится по массе метан и кислород.

    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Метановая ступень - ключевая часть РН Вулкан - и по размерам и по массе и по энергетике.
    Только по размерам ;D . Про энергетику посмотрите на соотношение XC по ступеням и время работы (циклограмма выше).

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: zandr от 08.01.2024 12:13:43
    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    The third Centaur V main engine burn is confirmed, completing the powered phase of the #VulcanRocket's #Cert1 flight test. Centaur performed this Earth-escape burn to plot a trajectory to interplanetary space for the @celestisflights memorial payload.

    ЦитироватьULA  @ulalaunch
    MISSION SUCCESS! ULA's #VulcanRocket successfully performed its #Cert1 flight test today! Thank you to the engineers, technicians and teammates across the nation who designed, built and launched this versatile new rocket. ULA success #159.
    Первый тест полностью успешен.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 12:26:17
    Цитата: Raul от 08.01.2024 12:01:42
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Синофилы не умеют даже в арифметику.
    Узнал, узнал. ;D Привет, azvoz!
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Какие ещё 1/3 метана?
    В Вулкане его более половины по массе.
    Узнайте, как соотносится по массе метан и кислород.
    Сегодня просто праздник какой-то! - все антиметанщики отчаянно тупят в бессильной злобе,
    тужась с "типа хитрыми" придирками и скучнейшими "типа шутками".

    Само собой, любой пишущей в ракетном контексте про метан подразумевает пару метан/кислород
    и сраванивается метан с попильным водородом и ТТУшными костылями.


    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 12:32:36
    Задержки с Вулканом в 2023 году возникли не из-за метановой ступени, 
    а из-за водородной - в том числе авария при её еспытании.

    Если бы не мерзкий водород Вулкан опередил бы ракету Зюк-2
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 13:08:13
    Пусковая тема в разделе "межпланетные станции и ..."
    https://forum.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/index.php?msg=2615510

    Там подробно освещены этапы сегодняшнего первого полета РН Вулкан.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 08.01.2024 13:44:22
    Цитата: zandr от 08.01.2024 12:13:43Первый тест полностью успешен.
    А это также означает, что длительной расслабухе Sierra Space с их Dream Chaser пришёл конец - теперь им придётся готовить крылатика к запуску в апреле по твёрдому графику. ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 13:46:38
    Цитата: Arzach от 08.01.2024 13:44:22
    Цитата: zandr от 08.01.2024 12:13:43Первый тест полностью успешен.
    А это также означает, что длительной расслабухе Sierra Space с их Dream Chaser пришёл конец - теперь им придётся готовить крылатика к запуску в апреле по твёрдому графику. ;D
    теперь, после неизбежного переноса, все убедятся, что проблема не в Вулкане, а в самой ущербной крылатой концепции
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 13:53:50
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:26:17Сегодня просто праздник какой-то! - все антиметанщики отчаянно тупят в бессильной злобе,
    тужась с "типа хитрыми" придирками и скучнейшими "типа шутками".
    А Вы не подменяете понятия "возможно" и "оптимально"?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 13:55:58
    Цитата: Димитър от 08.01.2024 11:34:22который уже весовой категории Фалкона-Хеви
    На самом деле Вулкан в этой категории. Это очень умных ход ULA, но это ход того еще рынка. Будет ли это работать сегодня - пока вопрос.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:02:50
    Цитата: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Нам нужно решать свои задачи, и хотя у нас все стало не хорошо со средствами выведения, но даже сейчас это не первая проблема.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27
    Цитата: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Лучше поздно чем никогда.
    Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:36:01
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.
    Насчет быстро это очень большой вопрос. Насчет недорого и вопросов нет - у нас все новые ракеты дороже старых в два раза при прибавке целевого параметра процентов на 10%.

    Если уж хотите издеваться над союзом - прикиньте 3 ступень на метане, заменяющую блок И и Фрегат.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:47:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Многоразовость это дает только при больших грузопотоках (высоком темпе пусков).
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 08.01.2024 14:50:02
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    У F9 тоже есть специфичный ряд, который выражается в том - как далеко от берега отгонять баржу и как это скажется на общем ресурсе ступени.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:52:41
    Цитата: RaZoom от 08.01.2024 14:50:02как это скажется на общем ресурсе ступени
    Ресурс ступени там очень эфемерная величина.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 14:57:24
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:36:01
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.
    Насчет быстро это очень большой вопрос. Насчет недорого и вопросов нет - у нас все новые ракеты дороже старых в два раза при прибавке целевого параметра процентов на 10%.

    Если уж хотите издеваться над союзом - прикиньте 3 ступень на метане, заменяющую блок И и Фрегат.
    Это неоднократно предлагалось здесь на форуме, в том числе и мной -
    - и 3я метановая ступень для С2(как с функционалом РБ так и без него)
    и универсальный метановый РБ для всех типов РН.
    так как является правильным до банальности в любое время начиная с 90х годов.

    Но сейчас(так же как в период с середины 60х до 90х),
    помимо этих окольных путей есть возможность быстрого создания одноразового метанового 9-тонника
    с упором на дешевизну - и производства РН и создания СК и остальных работ по запускам.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 15:00:41
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:57:24помимо этих окольных путей есть возможность быстрого создания одноразового метанового 9-тонника
    с упором на дешевизну - и производства РН и создания СК и остальных работ по запускам.
    Почему это именно сейчас есть такая возможность? 
    Ваш план состоит дождаться готовности СК под Ангару, начала серии Эмок, а потом все бросить и опять делать следующую новую ракету?
    У нас все было неплохо в 90-е со средствами выведения. И мы системно, последовательно, в несколько этапов все это ломали и портили. Вы предлагаете не останавливаться на достигнутом?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:05:26
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:32:36...

    Если бы не мерзкий водород Вулкан опередил бы ракету Зюк-2
    Правильно говорить "богомерзкий" ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 15:07:35
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:05:26
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:32:36...

    Если бы не мерзкий водород Вулкан опередил бы ракету Зюк-2
    Правильно говорить "богомерзкий" ;D
    Это может задеть чувства атеистов.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:10:55
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27
    Цитата: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Лучше поздно чем никогда.
    Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.

    Да, ладно! А с РД-180 - ещё быстрее керосиновый одноразовый 10-тонник.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 15:14:23
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:05:26
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:32:36...

    Если бы не мерзкий водород Вулкан опередил бы ракету Зюк-2
    Правильно говорить "богомерзкий" ;D
    "Богомерзкими" являются пропагандисты водорода, поскольку глупы
    а водород в контексте топлива - просто "мерзкий"
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:16:33
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 15:14:23
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:05:26
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:32:36...

    Если бы не мерзкий водород Вулкан опередил бы ракету Зюк-2
    Правильно говорить "богомерзкий" ;D
    "Богомерзкими" являются пропагандисты водорода, поскольку глупы
    а водород в контексте топлива - просто "мерзкий"
    Да, кто бы спорил. Вы тут один всех своей гениальностью затмеваете ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 15:25:59
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:10:55
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27
    Цитата: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Лучше поздно чем никогда.
    Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.

    Да, ладно! А с РД-180 - ещё быстрее керосиновый одноразовый 10-тонник.
    Насчет быстроты - согласен.
    Однако вы забыли про стоимость -  РН на БХГ не будет дешевой.
    Но даже несмотря на дороговизну 9 тонник на РД-180(условный Союз-6),
    если бы его сделали в период с начала нулевых до 2017 года,
    был бы лучше, чем продолжающаяся эпопея с дорогим и сопливо-сложным Союз-2.

    Теперь же на фоне Зюк-2 и Вулкана чиновников РФ вполне можно убедить в очевидном,
    - что можно быстро и недорого сделать метановый одноразовый 9 тонник.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 15:41:19
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 15:25:59Теперь же на фоне Зюк-2 и Вулкана чиновников РФ вполне можно убедить в очевидном,
    - что можно быстро и недорого сделать метановый одноразовый 9 тонник.
    Ну точно! Ещё один агент предлагает продолжить бег по граблям. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 08.01.2024 16:10:06
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 15:41:19
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 15:25:59Теперь же на фоне Зюк-2 и Вулкана чиновников РФ вполне можно убедить в очевидном,
    - что можно быстро и недорого сделать метановый одноразовый 9 тонник.
    Ну точно! Ещё один агент предлагает продолжить бег по граблям.
    Что то у вас все шиворот навыворот.
    Грабли - это БХГ, "модульность", "международное сотрудничество"
     и "вот-вот скоро-скоро будет волшебный водород который всё исправит!".

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 16:24:14
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 15:25:59
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 15:10:55
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 14:28:27
    Цитата: Большой от 08.01.2024 12:38:52
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 10:38:48Надеюсь чинуши получат мощный пинок от политиков
    по ускорению работы над одноразовым метановым Союз-СПГ.
    Мы уже безнадёжно отстали, можно не торопиться
    Лучше поздно чем никогда.
    Тем более что одноразовый метановый 9 тонник, на смену дорогому и сложному Союз-2,
    можно сделать и быстро и не дорого.

    Да, ладно! А с РД-180 - ещё быстрее керосиновый одноразовый 10-тонник.
    Насчет быстроты - согласен.
    Однако вы забыли про стоимость -  РН на БХГ не будет дешевой.
    Но даже несмотря на дороговизну 9 тонник на РД-180(условный Союз-6),
    если бы его сделали в период с начала нулевых до 2017 года,
    был бы лучше, чем продолжающаяся эпопея с дорогим и сопливо-сложным Союз-2.

    Теперь же на фоне Зюк-2 и Вулкана чиновников РФ вполне можно убедить в очевидном,
    - что можно быстро и недорого сделать метановый одноразовый 9 тонник.
    А на основании чего Вы решили, что пять метановых РД-0169 будут дешевле одного РД-180?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 16:34:05
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 16:10:06
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 15:41:19
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 15:25:59Теперь же на фоне Зюк-2 и Вулкана чиновников РФ вполне можно убедить в очевидном,
    - что можно быстро и недорого сделать метановый одноразовый 9 тонник.
    Ну точно! Ещё один агент предлагает продолжить бег по граблям.
    Что то у вас все шиворот навыворот.
    Грабли - это БХГ, "модульность", "международное сотрудничество"
     и "вот-вот скоро-скоро будет волшебный водород который всё исправит!".


    Грабли - это бесконечная разработка средств выведеия в ущерб разработке того, что ими выводить. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: sallem656 от 08.01.2024 16:34:32
    Но сейчас(так же как в период с середины 60х до 90х),
    помимо этих окольных путей есть возможность быстрого создания одноразового метанового 9-тонника
    с упором на дешевизну - и производства РН и создания СК и остальных работ по запускам. --------------------

    сделали бы и им и триблоком можно заменить все. Вместо этого сначала вбухали гигантские деньги в Ангару, потом ещё родили Cоюз 5.


    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:12:09
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:47:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Многоразовость это дает только при больших грузопотоках (высоком темпе пусков).
    Высокий темп пусков, это более трех в год? Ну тогда многоразовость даёт это всегда.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:23:48
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:12:09
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:47:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Многоразовость это дает только при больших грузопотоках (высоком темпе пусков).
    Высокий темп пусков, это более трех в год? Ну тогда многоразовость даёт это всегда.

    Фалкон летает 3 раза в год? 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:28:02
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:23:48
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:12:09
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:47:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Многоразовость это дает только при больших грузопотоках (высоком темпе пусков).
    Высокий темп пусков, это более трех в год? Ну тогда многоразовость даёт это всегда.

    Фалкон летает 3 раза в год?
    Фалкон дает рентабельность слетав 3 раза.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:31:16
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:28:02
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:23:48
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 17:12:09
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:47:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 14:42:23
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 14:33:29
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 11:55:30Ну многоразовость делает то же самое, и дешевле.
    Многоразовость не дает унифицированного ряда.
    Многоразовости ряд не нужен. Как показывает практика, Ф9 закрывает собой весь ряд от лёгких до тяжёлых РН при сохранении рентабельности и прибыльности.
    Многоразовость это дает только при больших грузопотоках (высоком темпе пусков).
    Высокий темп пусков, это более трех в год? Ну тогда многоразовость даёт это всегда.

    Фалкон летает 3 раза в год?
    Фалкон дает рентабельность слетав 3 раза.

    Это неверное утверждение. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 17:34:42
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:31:16Это неверное утверждение. 

    Это у вас неверное утверждение.  ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 18:21:39
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 17:34:42
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 17:31:16Это неверное утверждение.

    Это у вас неверное утверждение.  ;D
    А если подумать?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 18:30:35
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 18:21:39А если подумать?

    Ну так подумайте.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 18:32:42
    Цитата: Astro Cat от 08.01.2024 18:30:35
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 18:21:39А если подумать?

    Ну так подумайте.
    Мне не нужно.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 08.01.2024 18:38:32
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 12:26:17
    Цитата: Raul от 08.01.2024 12:01:42
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Синофилы не умеют даже в арифметику.
    Узнал, узнал. ;D Привет, azvoz!
    Цитата: amster от 08.01.2024 11:55:47Какие ещё 1/3 метана?
    В Вулкане его более половины по массе.
    Узнайте, как соотносится по массе метан и кислород.
    Сегодня просто праздник какой-то! - все антиметанщики отчаянно тупят в бессильной злобе,
    тужась с "типа хитрыми" придирками и скучнейшими "типа шутками".

    Само собой, любой пишущей в ракетном контексте про метан подразумевает пару метан/кислород
    и сраванивается метан с попильным водородом и ТТУшными костылями.



    Водород на второй ступени значительно эффективнее и если есть опыт, инфраструктура и надёжные двигатели, то именно его лучше и использовать. А в качестве ускорителей разумно использовать именно  рдтт опять же, мощность, компактность, надежность и гибкость компоновки под разную по массе полезную нагрузку, все новые носители их используют от японских и индийских до французских. Не используют только те, кто не умеет в твердотопливные технологии на должном уровне, либо те, у кого приоритет многоразовость. Так что для не полностью многоразовой ракеты, именно Вулкан на сегодня  представляется наиболее оптимальным носителем :)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37
    Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. Они устарели еще на стадии разработки с первой посадкой и потом реюзом Ф9, но сдавать назад никто из них уже не мог. Вложены огромные деньги, построена кооперация. Прямо как у нас с Ангарой. В итоге первый из них только полетел, а Ф9 сделал уже 200 реюзов.

    Первый реюз Ф9 в 2017, а первый пуск Вулкана должен был состоятся в 2020. Как и Ариан 6. Это было офигенно наблюдать, как старая "оптимальная" школа ракетостроения в прямом эфире сливает новому.

    "Оптимальный" Вулкан спасает сейчас только необходимость наличия второго оператора пусков для американских госнагрузок. Впрочем и Дельта с Атласом живут только тем же. Во всем остальном их уделал с потрохами многоразовый Ф9. А ещё тормознутостью Безоса с его Нью Гленом, будь он порасторопнее, ЮЛА уже давно бы пошла по банкроству.

    Европейцы тоже что то затрыпыхались с Ариан Некст, но по своей ещё более тормознутой и идиотичной бюрократической природе никуда не успеют. ну как можно всерьёз воспринимать систему, где готовые баки на мусорку выбрасывают.

    Япония тоже рисует что то Фалконообразное в 2030+ годах, но у них как у европейцев, только без такого бардака.

    Бесчисленные Китайцы вынашивают клоны Ф9 прямо сейчас. Можете сохранить этот пост, но в следующие пару лет они их родят и потом завалят НОО своими китайскими копиями Старлинка.

    А "оптимальный" Вулкан так и будет три раза в год выводить госнагрузки за невменяемые деньги. Зелен виноград.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:31:45
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. ..
    А зачем эти ракетам многоразовость? При десятке запусков в год.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14
    Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:31:45
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. ..
    А зачем эти ракетам многоразовость? При десятке запусков в год.
    Вулкан как и его предшественники Атлас и Дельта целится только на госнагрузки. Да, в лучшие времена ЮЛА на них как раз 10 таких и запускала в год Ну и один коммерческий. Потом пришёл Ф9 и число пусков сократилось до 2-3. Только потому, что США нужен запасной вариант для Ф9. В таких условиях никакая оптимальность не нужна. Хоть на кизяке РН делайте, она просто должна быть. В прямой конкуренции их убил Ф9.

    Япония и Европа оказались в примерно такой же ситуации в контексте обеспечения своей независимости в доступе на орбиту. Им нужен хоть какой носитель.

    Китай более свободен в этом плане, и поэтому именно он станет вторым за Маском. В Безоса и Нью Гленн не верю. Космос ему реально не сильно интересен. Он с удовольствием сожрал бы ЮЛУ и прилип бы с Вулканом на его РД к обеспеченной бюджетной американской груди.

    Ни о какой эффективности здесь речи не идёт. Чисто админресурс.

    Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:46:38
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    ФХ и есть прямой конкурент Вулкана. Не имея конкретных цен на вывод сопоставимых ПН этими РН конечно тяжело сравнить мощность и монструозность, но вообще говоря ФХ может оказаться и дешевле Вулкана в сравнимой роли. И ФХ буквально состоит из тех же блоков что и Ф9.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 19:52:40
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. Они устарели еще на стадии разработки с первой посадкой и потом реюзом Ф9, но сдавать назад никто из них уже не мог. Вложены огромные деньги, построена кооперация. Прямо как у нас с Ангарой. В итоге первый из них только полетел, а Ф9 сделал уже 200 реюзов.
    И у европейцев, и у японцев доминантой является "независимость доступа" (ну или распил, кому как нравится). Т.е. процесс должен идти, и, вероятно, по менее затратному пути (в деньгах для госзакзчика и в технологическом напряжении для изготовителей). Новая Ариан - это работа над ошибкой пятерки, которая была вызвана понтами. Японцы опять же увеличивают размерность не в рыночной постановке. Это явно внутренний проект с внутренними целями.
    А вот с Вулканом все намного интересней.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 08.01.2024 19:53:36
    А я в Безоса теперь верю, отработают BE-4, а с хорошим ЖРД как говорил В.П Глушко «и ворота полетят».. К тому же Безоса несомненно интересует создание своего аналога Старлинку, а для этого необходим многоразовый сверхтяж, да и собственная космическая станция его требует, космос это будущее его компании
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:54:00
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:31:45
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. ..
    А зачем эти ракетам многоразовость? При десятке запусков в год.
    ...

    Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Это не является целью космической программы ЕКА (и даже целью национальных программ любого государства). Коммерция - это желаемая опция для предприятий-изготовителей (или провайдеров). Но не обязательная. Поэтому все эти сотни запусков (чего?) Европе нафиг не нужны, им нужно запускать  навигационные, связные и разведывательные спутники, а также научные аппараты. Поэтому Ариан 6 - вполне оптимальная ракета для тех, кто её заказал.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 19:56:39
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Совершенно верно! Вулкан - это убийца обычной девятки. Рынку нужны две ракеты, но размерность ПН быстро растет до грузоподъемности второй. По крайней мере, это был план юлы.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:57:46
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:53:36А я в Безоса теперь верю, отработают BE-4, а с хорошим ЖРД как говорил В.П Глушко «и ворота полетят».. К тому же Безоса несомненно интересует создание своего аналога Старлинку, а для этого необходим многоразовый сверхтяж
    Его не просто интересует. Он должен до середины 2026 года развернуть не менее половины группировки. И, кстати, заказал 18 Ариан-6 (кроме прочих).
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:08:55
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 19:52:40
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. Они устарели еще на стадии разработки с первой посадкой и потом реюзом Ф9, но сдавать назад никто из них уже не мог. Вложены огромные деньги, построена кооперация. Прямо как у нас с Ангарой. В итоге первый из них только полетел, а Ф9 сделал уже 200 реюзов.
    И у европейцев, и у японцев доминантой является "независимость доступа" (ну или распил, кому как нравится). Т.е. процесс должен идти, и, вероятно, по менее затратному пути (в деньгах для госзакзчика и в технологическом напряжении для изготовителей). Новая Ариан - это работа над ошибкой пятерки, которая была вызвана понтами. Японцы опять же увеличивают размерность не в рыночной постановке. Это явно внутренний проект с внутренними целями.
    А вот с Вулканом все намного интересней.
    Это конечно так, но и Ариан-6 должна повторить коммерческий успех ариан 5, и Японцы не зря заявляли целью 50млн пуск, явно имею в виду по соперничать на коммерческом рынке. 

    Это не их вина, это насмешка судьбы. Маск всех поставил перед фактом.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 08.01.2024 20:10:16
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость.
    Я думаю, что их начали делать, когда на первые Фалконы-9 были объявлены безбожно ниские цены. Цель Вулкана, Ариан 6 и Н-3 - стать дешевле, чем ракеты, которые они заменяют. Постигнут ли они это - другой вопрос.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 08.01.2024 20:10:55
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 19:56:39
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Совершенно верно! Вулкан - это убийца обычной девятки. Рынку нужны две ракеты, но размерность ПН быстро растет до грузоподъемности второй. По крайней мере, это был план юлы.
    Такой же план был при создании Ариан-5. Но оказалось, что масса ПН не растёт. Более того, после появления Фалкон-9 заказчики предпочитали запуски на нём даже с недобором скорости до стандартной ГТО, чем на ариане. ЮЛА столкнётся с такими же проблемами: придётся собирать по два-три спутника на один пуск. Более реально конкурировать с Фалкон-Хэви за тяжелые военные спутники.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:12:24
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:54:00
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:31:45
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. ..
    А зачем эти ракетам многоразовость? При десятке запусков в год.
    ...

    Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Это не является целью космической программы ЕКА (и даже целью национальных программ любого государства). Коммерция - это желаемая опция для предприятий-изготовителей (или провайдеров). Но не обязательная. Поэтому все эти сотни запусков (чего?) Европе нафиг не нужны, им нужно запускать  навигационные, связные и разведывательные спутники, а также научные аппараты. Поэтому Ариан 6 - вполне оптимальная ракета для тех, кто её заказал.
    Зачем Ариан 5 была такая, какая была? Зачем ЕКА выводить 2 ГСО аппарата за раз. Ариан 5 была коммерческой ракетой, более лучшей чем коммерческий бестселлер Ариан 4. Но пятерке помешали Протоны и Зениты. Они делали Ариан-6 на замену Ариан 5 не три пуска в год делать. Но это было ещё до рассвета Ф9.

    А сейчас да, можно сказать, что и не очень то и нужна эта коммерция,  зелен виноград.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:13:45
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 19:56:39
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Совершенно верно! Вулкан - это убийца обычной девятки. Рынку нужны две ракеты, но размерность ПН быстро растет до грузоподъемности второй. По крайней мере, это был план юлы.
    Рынку нужна услуга. ПН никуда не растет. У вулкана нет шансов догнать Ф9. Ф9 намного эффективноей.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:14:38
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:13:45ПН никуда не растет.
    Слава Ангаре!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:16:26
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:57:46
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:53:36А я в Безоса теперь верю, отработают BE-4, а с хорошим ЖРД как говорил В.П Глушко «и ворота полетят».. К тому же Безоса несомненно интересует создание своего аналога Старлинку, а для этого необходим многоразовый сверхтяж
    Его не просто интересует. Он должен до середины 2026 года развернуть не менее половины группировки. И, кстати, заказал 18 Ариан-6 (кроме прочих).
    Он и Атласов заказал все. Потому что своего Нью Глена нет, а Ф9 использовать не вариант (впрочем УанВэб в итоге на Ф9 пересела)

    Безон ничего не должен. Как он эту заявку получил, так от неё и откажется по необходимости. В любом случае, многоразовая РН для вывода тысяч аппартов выгоднее была бы.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:17:28
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:12:24Зачем Ариан 5 была такая, какая была?
    Из-за понтов. Головокружение от свалившихся чужих денег привело к "идее" шаттла пополам. Три 376 на одной и Гермес на второй. Отсюда чудовищная переразмеренность для начала эксплуатации, которую пришлось "компенсировать" убогим РБ.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:19:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:14:38
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:13:45ПН никуда не растет.
    Слава Ангаре!
    Ангара это "красавица" за полярным кругом. Отдельная печальная история.

    15 тонн на ГСО остались в 80-х. В отсутствии конкуренции прямо сейчас как то бешенного спроса на ФХ на коммерческом рынке нет. Напротив летает с ПН для Ф9 в основном.


    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:25:54
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:17:28
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:12:24Зачем Ариан 5 была такая, какая была?
    Из-за понтов. Головокружение от свалившихся чужих денег привело к "идее" шаттла пополам. Три 376 на одной и Гермес на второй. Отсюда чудовищная переразмеренность для начала эксплуатации, которую пришлось "компенсировать" убогим РБ.
    Ариан 5 изначально подразумевалась для вывода безэкипажной ПН так же. Гермес был вариантов ПН. Важным, с его учетом проектировалась РН, но не единственным, как Шаттл.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:27:50
    Цитата: opinion от 08.01.2024 20:10:55Такой же план был при создании Ариан-5. Но оказалось, что масса ПН не растёт.
    Нет. Там такого плана не было, да и рынок выведения был совсем другой. Пятерка начиналась как форсированная под Гермес базовая ракета. И свой шаттлоподобный вид приобрела после того, как коммерческий рынок, выпестованный американцами под шаттл, достался им просто так.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов. Ракета многоразовая, чтобы впихнуть дополнительный коммерческий пуск, не нужно сильно заранее дополнительную ракету производить. Это кстати ещё один плюс многоразовых ракет.

    Так что с экономической стороны и Ариан 6, и Вулкан морально устарели ещё до первого запуска, и делают их ради гарантированного национального доступа в космос, а не ради коммерции или технического прогресса.

    Но поздравляю причастных с успехом, ракет много не бывает  ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:29:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:25:54с его учетом проектировалась РН
    Вот точно так же шаттл стал из 20 тонного 30 тонным (со всеми вытекающими, включая как схему, так и сниженную безопасность) - ради трех пусков нагрузок от ВВС.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:37:52
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов. Ракета многоразовая, чтобы впихнуть дополнительный коммерческий пуск, не нужно сильно заранее дополнительную ракету производить. Это кстати ещё один плюс многоразовых ракет.

    Так что с экономической стороны и Ариан 6, и Вулкан морально устарели ещё до первого запуска, и делают их ради гарантированного национального доступа в космос, а не ради коммерции или технического прогресса.

    Но поздравляю причастных с успехом, ракет много не бывает  ;D
    Думаю сейчас уже наоборот. 80 пусков Старлинка на 15 сторонних. Коммерческий рынок запусков никогда не даст такой прибыли, как гипотетический Старлинк. Поэтому даже если Маску запретят вообще сторонние ПН выводить, развертывание Старлинка до начала эксплуатации Старшипа будет сжирать все пусковые ресурсы.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:39:08
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:29:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:25:54с его учетом проектировалась РН
    Вот точно так же шаттл стал из 20 тонного 30 тонным (со всеми вытекающими, включая как схему, так и сниженную безопасность) - ради трех пусков нагрузок от ВВС.
    Ариан 5 перестала быть чисто ступенью Гермеса на очень раннем этапе разработки.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:40:33
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/353798.jpg)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:42:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    Программа многоразовости появилась уже в металле в 2012 (грасхоппер). Старлинк был явлен миру в 2015. Понимайте это как хотите.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:43:15
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:40:33(https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/353798.jpg)
    И?

    Можно сотни таких картинок про любую РН нарыть.

    Та итоговая Ариан 5, которая родилась на свет в середине 90-х, была носителем коммерческой РН.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:03:58
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:42:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    Программа многоразовости появилась уже в металле в 2012 (грасхоппер). Старлинк был явлен миру в 2015. Понимайте это как хотите.

    Если Вам ближе концепция "Маск - самодур", ничего не могу сделать.
    Сначала он неизвестно зачем делает фалкон многоразовым, а потом пытается оправдать эту многоразовость, придумав старлинк. Это так?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:05:12
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:43:15Та итоговая Ариан 5, которая родилась на свет в середине 90-х, была носителем коммерческой РН.
    Но ее размерность определялась массой несостоявшегося Гермеса 20+ т. Потому что ни в 11, ни в 15 самолет уложить не удалось.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:25:27
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:03:58
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:42:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    Программа многоразовости появилась уже в металле в 2012 (грасхоппер). Старлинк был явлен миру в 2015. Понимайте это как хотите.

    Если Вам ближе концепция "Маск - самодур", ничего не могу сделать.
    Сначала он неизвестно зачем делает фалкон многоразовым, а потом пытается оправдать эту многоразовость, придумав старлинк. Это так?
    В смысле, неизвестно зачем? Для колонизации Солнечной системы. А Старлинк он придумал как средство финансирования проекта.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:31:57
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:25:27
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:03:58
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:42:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    Программа многоразовости появилась уже в металле в 2012 (грасхоппер). Старлинк был явлен миру в 2015. Понимайте это как хотите.

    Если Вам ближе концепция "Маск - самодур", ничего не могу сделать.
    Сначала он неизвестно зачем делает фалкон многоразовым, а потом пытается оправдать эту многоразовость, придумав старлинк. Это так?
    В смысле, неизвестно зачем? Для колонизации Солнечной системы. А Старлинк он придумал как средство финансирования проекта.
    А Вы не в ЦНИИМаше работаете?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:41:22
    В РКК. А что?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:48:17
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:41:22В РКК. А что?
    Аналитика уровня ЦНИИмаша.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:52:15
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:48:17
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:41:22В РКК. А что?
    Аналитика уровня ЦНИИмаша.
    Ох блин, если бы.

    Если серьёзно, то именно идея покорения космоса пространства двигала всей этой темой изначально, порождая разные варианты на разных стадиях развития. И идея удешевления пусков через многоразовость возникла хронологически раньше, чем идея финансирования через Старлинк.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:59:32
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:52:15идея покорения космоса пространства двигала всей этой темой изначально, порождая разные варианты на разных стадиях развития. И идея удешевления пусков через многоразовость возникла хронологически раньше, чем идея финансирования через Старлинк.
    Понимаете, ДО фалкона "идея удешевления пусков через многоразовость" мягко говоря себя дискредитировала. И нужно было хорошо разобраться в вопросе, чтобы к этой теме подойти. А вопрос с многоразовостью это всегда вопрос соотношения темпов пуска и темпов производства.  
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 08.01.2024 22:23:58
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:30:01
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:03:58
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:42:20
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 08.01.2024 20:27:56Сильно подозреваю, что загрузка Ф9 старлинками бывает только когда нет коммерческих заказов.
    Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    Программа многоразовости появилась уже в металле в 2012 (грасхоппер). Старлинк был явлен миру в 2015. Понимайте это как хотите.

    Если Вам ближе концепция "Маск - самодур", ничего не могу сделать.
    Сначала он неизвестно зачем делает фалкон многоразовым, а потом пытается оправдать эту многоразовость, придумав старлинк. Это так?
    Многоразовость - для удешевления запусков.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: DiZed от 08.01.2024 22:40:52
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:25:27В смысле, неизвестно зачем? Для колонизации Солнечной системы. А Старлинк он придумал как средство финансирования проекта.
    насколько помню-представляю, изначально была концепция сделать из девятки полностью многоразовую транспортную систему, за счет чего радикально снизить стоимость выведения, в свою очередь за счет этого столь же радикально расширить рынок запусков - в т.ч. в денежном выражении. в дальнейшем полная многоразовость была отложена до старшипа, а фалкон сделался рабочей лошадкой первых фаз развертывания старлинка, "такая корова нужна самому" 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:42:53
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 21:59:32
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:52:15идея покорения космоса пространства двигала всей этой темой изначально, порождая разные варианты на разных стадиях развития. И идея удешевления пусков через многоразовость возникла хронологически раньше, чем идея финансирования через Старлинк.
    Понимаете, ДО фалкона "идея удешевления пусков через многоразовость" мягко говоря себя дискредитировала. И нужно было хорошо разобраться в вопросе, чтобы к этой теме подойти. А вопрос с многоразовостью это всегда вопрос соотношения темпов пуска и темпов производства. 

    November 14, 2005
    ЦитироватьOne issue that SpaceX is grappling with is who would need the BFR. "That's where things get a little dodgy," Musk said. "We're not quite sure how to pay for that vehicle." While Musk said he sees a long-term market transporting the infrastructure for colonization of the Moon and Mars, he hopes that in the near-term "NASA will buy from us", particularly if the cost of the BFR is on the order of ten percent of a shuttle-derived alternative. "The DOD might also have some ideas for putting some big things in space," he added.


    September 8, 2005
    ЦитироватьFalcon 5 and Falcon 9 will be the world's first launch vehicles where all stages are designed for reuse. The Falcon 1 has a reusable first stage, but an expendable upper stage. Reuse is not factored into launch prices. When the economics of stage recovery and checkout are fully understood, SpaceX will make further reductions in launch prices.

    September 28, 2008
    Цитировать"It most likely did not survive re-entry, but we knew that before liftoff," Musk said. "When it comes to Flight 5, we are going to improve the thermal protection and I think that's going to give us a decent chance of recovering the stage."
    SpaceX wants to reuse Falcon 1 first stages in the future, but Musk said it may be several flights before that goal becomes viable. Reusability would help drive down the rocket's price to customers, according to Musk.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:44:11
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 22:40:52
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 21:25:27В смысле, неизвестно зачем? Для колонизации Солнечной системы. А Старлинк он придумал как средство финансирования проекта.
    насколько помню-представляю, изначально была концепция сделать из девятки полностью многоразовую транспортную систему, за счет чего радикально снизить стоимость выведения, в свою очередь за счет этого столь же радикально расширить рынок запусков - в т.ч. в денежном выражении. в дальнейшем полная многоразовость была отложена до старшипа, а фалкон сделался рабочей лошадкой первых фаз развертывания старлинка, "такая корова нужна самому"
    Не с девятки. Многоразовость закладывалась с самого начала, с Фэлкон 1, как и колонизация Марса. Выше пост. Старлинк уже позже подцепился.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Михаил Михайлов от 08.01.2024 22:46:28
    Можно много говорить о многоразовости, о сверхтяжах и метане. Но на сегодня есть два уже испытанных в реальном полете многоразовых двигателя. Метановый BE-4 на 250 тонн тяги и высотный водородный BE-3U тягой емнип в 70 тонн.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 22:49:16
    Цитата: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:30:01Многоразовость - для удешевления запусков.
    Шаттл?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:49:45
    Цитата: Михаил  Михайлов от 08.01.2024 22:46:28Можно много говорить о многоразовости, о сверхтяжах и метане. Но на сегодня есть два уже испытанных в реальном полете многоразовых двигателя. Метановый BE-4 на 250 тонн тяги и высотный водородный BE-3U тягой емнип в 70 тонн.
    Каким местом BE-4 многоразовый? Что то не увидел перезапуска в сегодняшнем пуске.

    И да, речь только про Блю Ориджин?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:57:35
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 22:49:16
    Цитата: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:30:01Многоразовость - для удешевления запусков.
    Шаттл?
    Нет, Фалкон-9
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: DiZed от 08.01.2024 22:57:38
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:44:11Не с девятки. Многоразовость закладывалась с самого начала, с Фэлкон 1, как и колонизация Марса. Выше пост.
    я и не писал, что началась с девятки; я о том, что предполагалось-заявлялось, что девятка будет развиваться до полной многоразовости, для чего рассматривались разные решения. помнится, в первой анимации этой концепции был термощит сверху (там же реактивная посадка на опоры для дрэгона), потом маск собирался пробовать надувной термощит..
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 22:59:35
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 22:40:52концепция сделать из девятки полностью многоразовую транспортную систему, за счет чего радикально снизить стоимость выведения, в свою очередь за счет этого столь же радикально расширить рынок запусков - в т.ч. в денежном выражении
    Во-первых, после шаттла, кистрела и пусть даже пегаса (а это вот все только перед этим или даже в параллель) как можно было прийти к логической связке "многоразовое дешево"?

    Во-вторых, как можно расширить рынок запусков, снизив стоимость средств выведения? Даже до нуля?

    В-третьих, радикально цена запуска на Фальконе не снизилась. Она снизилась ровно настолько, чтобы добить конкурентов, и в первую очередь самострелов из ILS  и в том числе на субсидии от правительства США.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:03:00
    Цитата: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:57:35
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 22:49:16
    Цитата: opinion от 08.01.2024 22:30:01Многоразовость - для удешевления запусков.
    Шаттл?
    Нет, Фалкон-9

    А в шаттле для чего многоразовость?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 08.01.2024 23:03:34
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 22:57:38
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:44:11Не с девятки. Многоразовость закладывалась с самого начала, с Фэлкон 1, как и колонизация Марса. Выше пост.
    я и не писал, что началась с девятки; я о том, что предполагалось-заявлялось, что девятка будет развиваться до полной многоразовости, для чего рассматривались разные решения. помнится, в первой анимации этой концепции был термощит сверху (там же реактивная посадка на опоры для дрэгона), потом маск собирался пробовать надувной термощит..
    Да, но это уже было по ходу реализации проработка вариантов. Я к тому, что идея снижения стоимости услуги через многоразовость для конкуренции на рынке запусков, и что это для финансирования создания межпланетной транспортной системы, это все было с самого основания СпейсИкс. Старлинк тут как обоснование вообще никаким боком.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:08:11
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 22:59:35Во-вторых, как можно расширить рынок запусков, снизив стоимость средств выведения? Даже до нуля?
    примерно как форд в свое время расширил (сделал практически бездонным) рынок авто, выведя на него дешевый массово доступный автомобиль. предлагая дешево запускать коммуникационные, туристические, научные, астрономические, технологические модули - интерес к которым и число которых могли бы возрасти на порядки. собственно старлинк и есть ответ на вопрос - "как", маск в итоге пришел к схеме, в которой стал сам главным выгодополучателем многоразовости
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:19:25
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:08:11предлагая дешево запускать коммуникационные, туристические, научные, астрономические, технологические модули - интерес к которым и число которых могли бы возрасти на порядки
    И что, возрос?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:31:42
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:19:25И что, возрос?
    оказалось, что "такая корова нужна самому"; быть владельцем глобального проекта, которому (ттт) позволила взлететь уже частичная многоразовость,  выгоднее, чем извозчиком даже при многих подобных. для шанса на начало шевеления цену запусков пришлось бы снижать много ниже, а теперь сам маск в этом совсем не заинтересован, ибо в самом очевидном и жирном секторе -  телекоммуникационном - теперь все  прежде всего не его клиенты, а его конкуренты. пытаться допиливать девятку до полной многоразовости одновременно с работой над старшипом потеряло смысл
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:38:39
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:31:42
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:19:25И что, возрос?
    оказалось, что "такая корова нужна самому"; быть владельцем глобального проекта, которому (ттт) позволила взлететь уже частичная многоразовость,  выгоднее, чем извозчиком даже при многих подобных. для шанса на начало шевеления цену запусков пришлось бы снижать много ниже, а теперь сам маск в этом совсем не заинтересован, ибо в самом очевидном и жирном секторе -  телекоммуникационном - теперь все  прежде всего не его клиенты, а его конкуренты. допиливать девятку одновременно с работой над старшипом потеряло смысл
    Ну то есть есть самодур, который действует без всякого плана.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:44:24
    я полагаю, что "самодур" - это как раз тот, кто не хочет и не умеет сколь угодно гибко корректировать свои планы и концепции, осознавая/находя в процессе продвижения как ошибки/заблуждения, так и новые возможности
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:54:10
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:44:24я полагаю, что "самодур" - это как раз тот, кто не хочет и не умеет сколь угодно гибко корректировать свои планы и концепции, осознавая/находя в процессе продвижения как ошибки/заблуждения, так и новые возможности
    Полагаю, что Вы ничего не понимаете в планировании. 

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/353803.jpg)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:05:51
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 20:31:19Там вся многоразовость появилась под Старлинк и без Старлинка не имела бы смысла. Нужно понимать, где причина, а где - следствие.
    нету тут причины и следствия.
    Одно тянуло за собой другое и vise versa.

    ЗЫ Чисто по времени - иде-фикс многоразовости и затем хорошие наработки по ней появилась у Маска точно раньше, чем старлинк. Но это была тоже не причина. Это предпосылка. То есть фундамент, который сделал идею старлинка в принципе возможной для рассмотрения. Но старлинк дал возможность вылизать многоразовость Ф9 до идеала и смысл двигаться еще дальше. И тд.
    Как я уже писал ранее неоднократно - развитие ПН и средств выведения зависят друг от друга в обе стороны, а не только первое от второго или только наоборот.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:08:56
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:05:51нету тут причины и следствия.
    Одно тянуло за собой другое
    А Вы не в ЦНИИмаше работаете?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:18:56
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:19:25
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:08:11предлагая дешево запускать коммуникационные, туристические, научные, астрономические, технологические модули - интерес к которым и число которых могли бы возрасти на порядки
    И что, возрос?
    не то слово
    Достаточно взглянуть на
    1. выведенную в 23г ПН
    2. Множащиеся как грибы после дождя проекты низкоорбитальных группировок. Некоторые из которых через несколько лет станут реальностью.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:22:06
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:08:56
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:05:51нету тут причины и следствия.
    Одно тянуло за собой другое
    А Вы не в ЦНИИмаше работаете?
    не
    Я работаю сам на себя уже довольно много лет.
    Именно поэтому я знаю, что потребности порождают возможности, а возможности - новые потребности. Причем постепенно, шаг за шагом.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:23:19
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:18:56Достаточно взглянуть на
    1. выведенную в 23г ПН
    туристические, научные, астрономические, технологические модули ?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:24:10
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:22:06Я работаю сам на себя
    Это как?
    Натуральное хозяйство что ли?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:25:11
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 08.01.2024 23:54:10
    Цитата: DiZed от 08.01.2024 23:44:24я полагаю, что "самодур" - это как раз тот, кто не хочет и не умеет сколь угодно гибко корректировать свои планы и концепции, осознавая/находя в процессе продвижения как ошибки/заблуждения, так и новые возможности
    Полагаю, что Вы ничего не понимаете в планировании.

    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/353803.jpg)
    в таком вот ^^^^ планировании действительно лучше всего ничего не понимать.
    Такое планирование еще хуже, чем вообще никакого.
    И это я тоже знаю не понаслышке и не из ЦНИИмаша, а из опыта.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:26:31
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:23:19
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:18:56Достаточно взглянуть на
    1. выведенную в 23г ПН
    туристические, научные, астрономические, технологические модули ?
    все сразу.
    С телекоммуникационными на первом месте.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:27:35
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 00:24:10
    Цитата: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:22:06Я работаю сам на себя
    Это как?
    Натуральное хозяйство что ли?
    господь с Вами...
    С натуральным хозяйством у меня бы не было времени и денег читать ФНК :)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vlad7308 от 09.01.2024 00:31:41
    Давайте завяжем оффтопик.
    Тема все таки - про РН Вулкан
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 09.01.2024 01:10:33
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:49:45
    Цитата: Михаил  Михайлов от 08.01.2024 22:46:28Можно много говорить о многоразовости, о сверхтяжах и метане. Но на сегодня есть два уже испытанных в реальном полете многоразовых двигателя. Метановый BE-4 на 250 тонн тяги и высотный водородный BE-3U тягой емнип в 70 тонн.
    Каким местом BE-4 многоразовый? Что то не увидел перезапуска в сегодняшнем пуске.

    И да, речь только про Блю Ориджин?

    двигательная установка Вулкана многоразовая, она будет отделяться и приземляться
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54
    Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 09.01.2024 05:15:02
    Цитата: strat от 09.01.2024 01:10:33
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 22:49:45
    Цитата: Михаил  Михайлов от 08.01.2024 22:46:28Можно много говорить о многоразовости, о сверхтяжах и метане. Но на сегодня есть два уже испытанных в реальном полете многоразовых двигателя. Метановый BE-4 на 250 тонн тяги и высотный водородный BE-3U тягой емнип в 70 тонн.
    Каким местом BE-4 многоразовый? Что то не увидел перезапуска в сегодняшнем пуске.

    И да, речь только про Блю Ориджин?

    двигательная установка Вулкана многоразовая, она будет отделяться и приземляться
    Эту бредовую попсятину уже давно отменили
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 09.01.2024 05:54:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Ну класс просто, с первого раза запустили ракету, морально устаревшую ещё до первого пуска. Вдобавок ещё не факт, что лунный зонд не помяли при выводе.

    У колхозника же были успешными последние 259 запусков. Вот это профессионал!

    А каким образом профессионал добивается результата, протирая годами тысячи штанов в офисе или поначалу безуспешно запуская множество тестовых экземпляров, не так важно. Результат важен. У колхозника результаты отличные.

    Одноразовые ракеты скоро будут таким же анахронизмом, как одноразовые самолёты.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 05:57:35
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 09.01.2024 05:54:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Ну класс просто, с первого раза запустили ракету, морально устаревшую ещё до первого пуска.
    Ну, если метан с водородом для вас морально устарели, то вероятно вы работаете в термоядерной команде. Заметьте, ни один Раптор еще ничего на орбиту не вывел, это что же Маск проиграл пари с Безосом?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 09.01.2024 06:08:55
    Ключевые моменты первого запуска РН Вулкан на видео.
    ==
    Vulcan Cert-1 Launch Highlights
    United Launch Alliance (ULA) marked the beginning of a new era of space capabilities 
    with the successful launch of its next generation Vulcan rocket on Jan. 8 at 2:18 a.m. EST 
    from Space Launch Complex-41 at Cape Canaveral Space Force Station. 
    The Vulcan provides industry-leading capabilities to deliver any payload, at any time, to any orbit.
    https://youtu.be/_eCvxPieA84
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:28:22
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Да, инженеры Боинга в этот раз хорошо поработали. По крайней мере, никакая заглушка в полёте не отвалилась. А вот инженеры НАСА почему-то накосячили.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:41:18
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 05:57:35
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 09.01.2024 05:54:54
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Ну класс просто, с первого раза запустили ракету, морально устаревшую ещё до первого пуска.
    Ну, если метан с водородом для вас морально устарели, то вероятно вы работаете в термоядерной команде. Заметьте, ни один Раптор еще ничего на орбиту не вывел, это что же Маск проиграл пари с Безосом?

    Водород только для Роскосмоса новое. Метан новое, но это же не они сделали. Просто купили двигатели, как и предыдущие. Но всё равно молодцы.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 07:46:31
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:41:18Просто купили двигатели.
    У кого купили?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 09.01.2024 08:36:40
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 20:12:24
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:54:00
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:44:32
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 19:31:45
    Цитата: Водитель от 08.01.2024 19:12:37Вулкан, Ариан 6 и Н-3 создавались еще до того, как Маск принес в этот грешный одноразовый мир божественную эффективную многоразовость. ..
    А зачем эти ракетам многоразовость? При десятке запусков в год.
    ...

    Будь они шустрее, Ариан Некст не только выводила бы сейчас государственные европейские ПН, которые сейчас в массе пересели на Ф9, но и посоперничали бы с Ф9 на коммерческом рынке, пользуясь загрузкой Ф9 на развертывании Старлинк.
    Это не является целью космической программы ЕКА (и даже целью национальных программ любого государства). Коммерция - это желаемая опция для предприятий-изготовителей (или провайдеров). Но не обязательная. Поэтому все эти сотни запусков (чего?) Европе нафиг не нужны, им нужно запускать  навигационные, связные и разведывательные спутники, а также научные аппараты. Поэтому Ариан 6 - вполне оптимальная ракета для тех, кто её заказал.
    Зачем Ариан 5 была такая, какая была? ....

    Затем, что Ариан-5 проектировалась как многоцелевая ракета для запуска разных ПГ на низкие и высокие орбиты, в т.ч. для Гермеса, масса которого выросла с 10 до 20 т. И энергетика Ариан-5 подтягивалась под эту нагрузку, из-за чего и вышла переразмеренной. И эта переразмеренность привела к необходимости запускать по 2 КА.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 09.01.2024 10:00:09
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 01:30:54Профессионалы! С первого раза в яблочко, без летающих стендов, многозначительных процентных ставок чиф-дизайнера и беснующихся девиц за стеклом. И, кстати, обратите внимание на цвет пламени ЖРД и сравните с колхозным во время их крайнего недоразумения..
    Да фиг его знает, может и угробили ПН второй ступенью.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 09.01.2024 12:00:20
    Всего на 2024 год запланировано 7 пусков(включая первый)
    Первые два из них в рамках испытательной программы
    и пять в интересах United States Space Force(Космические силы США).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vulcan_launches_(2020%E2%80%9329)#2024_2
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 12:32:43
    Цитата: amster от 09.01.2024 12:00:20Всего на 2024 год запланировано 7 пусков(включая первый)
    Первые два из них в рамках испытательной программы
    и пять в интересах United States Space Force(Космические силы США).
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Vulcan_launches_(2020%E2%80%9329)#2024_2

    Если Вас смущает, что нет геостационарной коммерции, то это нормально для новой ракеты. Должен быть безаварийный настрел, чтобы цена страховки упала до приемлемого уровня.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Димитър от 09.01.2024 16:45:51
    Цитата: amster от 09.01.2024 12:00:20Всего на 2024 год запланировано 7 пусков(включая первый)
    И самый интересный из них - в апреле первый полет Dream Chaser!  
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 09.01.2024 17:14:51
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации.
    А стоят они сколько?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 09.01.2024 17:31:47
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Нет - без боковушек ПН всего 10 тонн. Т.е. аналог Союза.
    А каждая боковушка это +50% тяги.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 09.01.2024 18:03:25
    Цитата: Дем от 09.01.2024 17:14:51
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации.
    А стоят они сколько?
    The Maximum price of a GEM-63XL SRB is $7 million
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/802zw2/i_believe_we_have_enough_information_to_determine/
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 09.01.2024 19:20:35
    Цитата: Дем от 09.01.2024 17:31:47
    Цитата: strat от 08.01.2024 19:32:14Вулкан гораздо мощнее Фэлкон 9, но не так монструозен как Фэлкон Хэви, пока у него нет прямого конкурента
    Нет - без боковушек ПН всего 10 тонн. Т.е. аналог Союза.
    А каждая боковушка это +50% тяги.
    Но с двумя боковушками - 8,4т на ГПО - для таких нагрузок в SpaceX берут уже FH.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 09.01.2024 19:21:13
    ТТУшные костыли очень сильно усложняют СК(помимо прочих косяков),
    так как сухая масса РН возрастает в разы, а часто и в десятки раз..

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 20:44:40
    Цитата: amster от 09.01.2024 19:21:13ТТУшные костыли очень сильно усложняют СК(помимо прочих косяков),
    так как сухая масса РН возрастает в разы, а часто и в десятки раз..


    бетон на сжатие работает лучше
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 09.01.2024 20:53:53
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 09.01.2024 18:03:25
    Цитата: Дем от 09.01.2024 17:14:51
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации.
    А стоят они сколько?
    The Maximum price of a GEM-63XL SRB is $7 million
    https://www.reddit.com/r/ula/comments/802zw2/i_believe_we_have_enough_information_to_determine/

    Надежность,мощность, компактность, гибкость компоновки и стоимость, по всем параметрам лучше чем одноразовые ЖРД в качестве первой ступени( ускорителей)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 09.01.2024 21:01:02
    - а что с экологией?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 09.01.2024 22:10:10
    Кстати, Вулкан начали разрабатывать примерно в то же время, когда состоялся первый пуск Ангары-5 и он вывел реальную полезную нагрузку раньше неё. Это к вопросу о летающих стендах.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 09.01.2024 22:10:51
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 07:46:31
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:41:18Просто купили двигатели.
    У кого купили?

    У компании, не входящей в альянс.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 10.01.2024 00:38:18
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 20:44:40
    Цитата: amster от 09.01.2024 19:21:13ТТУшные костыли очень сильно усложняют СК(помимо прочих косяков),
    так как сухая масса РН возрастает в разы, а часто и в десятки раз..


    бетон на сжатие работает лучше
    При чем тут бетон?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: sallem656 от 10.01.2024 00:54:39
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации. Кроме того, твердое ьтопливо будет применяться и впредь, и компетенции в этом направлении необходимо сохранять. А Вы всё наивно сводите к "жадным лоббистам".

    Два таких костыля Союзу-5 сделать и Ангару можно на покой.
    Союз-5 с двумя такими ускорителями сколько сможет выводить?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 01:47:01
    Цитата: sallem656 от 10.01.2024 00:54:39
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации. Кроме того, твердое ьтопливо будет применяться и впредь, и компетенции в этом направлении необходимо сохранять. А Вы всё наивно сводите к "жадным лоббистам".

    Два таких костыля Союзу-5 сделать и Ангару можно на покой.
    Союз-5 с двумя такими ускорителями сколько сможет выводить?
    Нет соответствующих твердотопливных компетенций, собственно уже пытались однажды сделать твердотопливную БРПЛ аналог Трайдент 2, не смогли, получился тяжелый неэффективный монстр и поэтому вернулись к ЖРД. А хорошие отработанные керосиновые ЖРД созданные в СССР наоборот есть. Сейчас имеет смысл  концентрироваться на метане, здесь хоть какой-то задел есть, есть производственная и испытательная база... Хотя способность создать новый мощный многоразовый ЖРД на метан вызывает сейчас уже ну очень большие сомнения, ведь ничего нового не создано за десятилетия прошедшие с момента вставания с колен...А доступность новых современныж производственных технологий сейчас  уже сильно хуже чем еще недавно
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:26:01
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 01:47:01
    Цитата: sallem656 от 10.01.2024 00:54:39
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации. Кроме того, твердое ьтопливо будет применяться и впредь, и компетенции в этом направлении необходимо сохранять. А Вы всё наивно сводите к "жадным лоббистам".

    Два таких костыля Союзу-5 сделать и Ангару можно на покой.
    Союз-5 с двумя такими ускорителями сколько сможет выводить?
    Нет соответствующих твердотопливных компетенций
    Инженеры МИТ-а ухмыльнулись. -Ну  нет, так нет!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:31:16
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 22:10:51
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 07:46:31
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:41:18Просто купили двигатели.
    У кого купили?

    У компании, не входящей в альянс.
    Купили у частника Безоса, который создал свой первый в жизни  метановый двигатель, сразу отработавший полную циклограмму в полете, без всяких дурацких "итераций" и прочих прихлопов и притопов.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:35:37
    Цитата: amster от 10.01.2024 00:38:18
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 09.01.2024 20:44:40
    Цитата: amster от 09.01.2024 19:21:13ТТУшные костыли очень сильно усложняют СК(помимо прочих косяков),
    так как сухая масса РН возрастает в разы, а часто и в десятки раз..


    бетон на сжатие работает лучше
    При чем тут бетон?

    Он дешОвый.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 02:47:32
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:26:01
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 01:47:01
    Цитата: sallem656 от 10.01.2024 00:54:39
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 08.01.2024 11:20:18Вообще-то, ТТУ - классная вещь с точки зрения эксплуатации. Кроме того, твердое ьтопливо будет применяться и впредь, и компетенции в этом направлении необходимо сохранять. А Вы всё наивно сводите к "жадным лоббистам".

    Два таких костыля Союзу-5 сделать и Ангару можно на покой.
    Союз-5 с двумя такими ускорителями сколько сможет выводить?
    Нет соответствующих твердотопливных компетенций
    Инженеры МИТ-а ухмыльнулись. -Ну  нет, так нет!
    Соломонов у Караулова в Моменте истины как-то жаловался, что нету «беленой целлюлозы» в стране, необходимой для производства топлива и ее приходится покупать через фирмы прокладки зарубежом. Это было лет 10 назад... Ракеты МИТ-а нередко терпят аварии, вот как совсем недавно, люди опять видели чудеса в небе,  а у Трайдента 150 безаварийных пусков подряд. А создать новый ТТ ускоритель и довести его, это эпопея лет на двадцать в современной России, проще говоря это «никогда» 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:31:16
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 22:10:51
    Цитата: nonconvex от 09.01.2024 07:46:31
    Цитата: opinion от 09.01.2024 07:41:18Просто купили двигатели.
    У кого купили?

    У компании, не входящей в альянс.
    Купили у частника Безоса, который создал свой первый в жизни  метановый двигатель, сразу отработавший полную циклограмму в полете, без всяких дурацких "итераций" и прочих прихлопов и притопов.
    Не сразу, были и задержки и срывы сроков и взрывы и частник Маск тоже создал свой первый метановый двигатель, причем сходу предельный по параметрам, и довел его. И мы ещё не знаем сколько стоит BE-4))) Это просто современная Америка, где доступность и продвинутость производственных технологий, доступность и продвинутость моделирования , сегодня таковы, что частники без опыта берут и делают метановые ЖРД и вообще ракеты целиком ))
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:53:03
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:47:32Ракеты МИТ-а нередко терпят аварии, вот как совсем недавно, люди опять видели чудеса в небе,
    Надо говорить "все чаще", а то булавы, тополя и ярсы летают себе, вполне чудесно.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:53:41
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06и частник Маск тоже создал свой первый метановый двигатель, причем сходу предельный по параметрам, и довел его.
    До чего довел то?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:55:57
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06были и задержки и срывы сроков и взрывы
    Что. прямо в полете взрывались, как рапторские?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: AlexandrU от 10.01.2024 03:07:41
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 01:47:01Нет соответствующих твердотопливных компетенций... не смогли... ничего нового не создано за десятилетия... доступность новых современныж производственных технологий сейчас  уже сильно хуже чем еще недавно
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:47:32нету «беленой целлюлозы» в стране...  Ракеты нередко терпят аварии...  создать новый ТТ ускоритель и довести его, это эпопея лет на двадцать
    Успокойтесь :) , то уже в прошлом. Сейчас пальма первенства по утраченным полимерам, целлюлозе и технологическому отставанию у них (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Range_Hypersonic_Weapon).

    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06...Это просто современная Америка, где доступность и продвинутость производственных технологий, доступность и продвинутость моделирования , сегодня таковы, что частники без опыта берут и делают метановые ЖРД и вообще ракеты целиком ))
    ...из стали ;D ;D ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 03:09:50
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 03:20:08


    ЦитироватьNov 1б 2023 (Reuters) - The U.S. Air Force said on Wednesday it had blown up a Minuteman III missile over the Pacific Ocean after an anomaly was detected ...
    Вот и Минитмены начали взрываться. Все чаще!
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 03:23:53
    https://cdn.prd.ngc.agencyq.site/-/media/wp-content/uploads/NG-Propulsion-Products-Catalog.pdf
    39 страница, ускорители Вулкана, QDL-4 однако используют, это к вопросу о полимерах
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: AlexandrU от 10.01.2024 03:32:26
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 03:23:5339 страница, ускорители Вулкана, QDL-4 однако используют, это к вопросу о полимерах
    Ну так пусть его на LRHW и поставят. Вдруг полетит ;)

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 10.01.2024 07:34:04
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06частники без опыта берут и делают метановые ЖРД
    Они нанимают людей с опытом, для начала. Это даже у нас так работает.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:34:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:55:57
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06были и задержки и срывы сроков и взрывы
    Что. прямо в полете взрывались, как рапторские?
    Какая разница, где взрывались? Имеют значение только результаты, а также сроки и стоимость разработки.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:36:49
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:34:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:55:57
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06были и задержки и срывы сроков и взрывы
    Что. прямо в полете взрывались, как рапторские?
    Какая разница, где взрывались? Имеют значение только результаты, а также сроки и стоимость разработки.
    Результаты налицо - ПН выведена на орбиту с первого раза. Итеративным такое и не снилось, у них первая итерация - кувырок с падением обратно на старт.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:36:58
    Цитата: AlexandrU от 10.01.2024 03:07:41
    Цитировать...Это просто современная Америка, где доступность и продвинутость производственных технологий, доступность и продвинутость моделирования , сегодня таковы, что частники без опыта берут и делают метановые ЖРД и вообще ракеты целиком ))
    ...из стали ;D ;D ;D
    Из стали - только половину ракеты. Но это частники с опытом.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:48:19
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:36:49
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:34:49
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 02:55:57
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 02:51:06были и задержки и срывы сроков и взрывы
    Что. прямо в полете взрывались, как рапторские?
    Какая разница, где взрывались? Имеют значение только результаты, а также сроки и стоимость разработки.
    Результаты налицо - ПН выведена на орбиту с первого раза. Итеративным это и не снилось, у них первая итерация - кувырок с падением обратно на старт.
    Опять таки, это не особенно важно. Важен конечный результат, сроки и стоимость разработки.

    Сейчас мы имеем уникальную возможность сравнить три разных подхода к разработке. Старые фирмы и примкнувший к ним Безос тихонько что-то пилят в закрытых КБ и потом выкатывают готовую ракету и сразу пускают её с ПН. Маск, как энтузиасты прошлого века, ведет отработку пуская сырые изделия и одновременно применяет методы быстрой разработки из IT. И Роскосмос - сначала пилит в КБ, потом долго-долго отрабатывает в пусках с макетами.

    Года через два все эти проекты достигнут стадии штатной эксплуатации и будет видно, кто чего добился.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:51:02
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:48:19Сейчас мы имеем уникальную возможность сравнить три разных подхода к разработке. Старые фирмы и примкнувший к ним Безос тихонько что-то пилят в закрытых КБ и потом выкатывают готовую ракету и сразу пускают её с ПН. Маск, как энтузиасты прошлого века, ведет отработку пуская сырые изделия и одновременно применяет методы быстрой разработки из IT.
    В результате старые фирмы и примкнувшие пускают ракеты с первого раза, и айтишники тоже пускают, но пузыри. Что тут сравнивать, интересно?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:54:59
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:51:02
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:48:19Сейчас мы имеем уникальную возможность сравнить три разных подхода к разработке. Старые фирмы и примкнувший к ним Безос тихонько что-то пилят в закрытых КБ и потом выкатывают готовую ракету и сразу пускают её с ПН. Маск, как энтузиасты прошлого века, ведет отработку пуская сырые изделия и одновременно применяет методы быстрой разработки из IT.
    В результате старые фирмы и примкнувшие пускают ракеты с первого раза, и айтишники тоже пускают, но пузыри. Что тут сравнивать, интересно?
    Сравнивать, кто через два года будет пускать ракеты, а кто сочинять истории про административный ресурс, тайное финансирование и демпинг.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 08:01:12
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:54:59Сравнивать, кто через два года будет пускать ракеты, а кто сочинять истории про административный ресурс, тайное финансирование и демпинг.

    Через два года безусловно будет интересно. Административный ресурс очень не любит, когда ему выкручивают руки, и при первой же возможности закрывает контракт.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36
    Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.

    С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Astro Cat от 10.01.2024 09:05:05
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?

    Это не важно. Он еще в процессе доводки и испытаний.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 09:21:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.

    С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?
    Или чуть повыше
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 10.01.2024 11:21:19
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 09.01.2024 18:03:25The Maximum price of a GEM-63XL SRB is $7 million
    Т.е. одна нынешняя пара стоит как целый запуск Ф9
    Цитата: RaZoom от 09.01.2024 19:20:35Но с двумя боковушками - 8,4т на ГПО - для таких нагрузок в SpaceX берут уже FH.
    Да, потому что столько Ф9 может только в расходуемом варианте.
    Но так как у ФХ центральный блок получился де-факто неспасаемый - то скорей  именно так и будут если запросят
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 10.01.2024 11:21:51
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?
    Для этой версии - 100%
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Лог от 10.01.2024 11:28:18
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    ИМХО сравнивать надо, Вулкан и Ариан
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 12:29:00
    ЮЛА и Безос молодцы, что вытянули проект. У многих проектов типа Койпера или Дрим Чайзера появился шанс на реализацию. Нью Гленн тоже стал не столь призрачен. В целом для отрасли летающий Вулкан это несомненный плюс.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: AlexandrU от 10.01.2024 12:37:34
    Цитата: opinion от 10.01.2024 07:36:58Из стали - только половину ракеты. Но это частники с опытом.
    Ну вот, получается, чем опытнее, тем стали в ракете меньше.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 10.01.2024 13:20:37
    Цитата: AlexandrU от 10.01.2024 12:37:34Ну вот, получается, чем опытнее, тем стали в ракете меньше.
    Ну так опыт-то - работы с люминем.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 17:42:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 09:21:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.

    С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?
    Или чуть повыше
    А пламя было красное, и СШ до орбиты не долетел. Может все же прикрутили дроссель для этой итерации?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: sallem656 от 10.01.2024 18:01:11
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 01:47:01Нет соответствующих твердотопливных компетенций, собственно уже пытались однажды сделать твердотопливную БРПЛ аналог Трайдент 2, не смогли, получился тяжелый неэффективный монстр и поэтому вернулись к ЖРД. А хорошие отработанные керосиновые ЖРД созданные в СССР наоборот есть. Сейчас имеет смысл  концентрироваться на метане, здесь хоть какой-то задел есть, есть производственная и испытательная база... Хотя способность создать новый мощный многоразовый ЖРД на метан вызывает сейчас уже ну очень большие сомнения, ведь ничего нового не создано за десятилетия прошедшие с момента вставания с колен...А доступность новых современныж производственных технологий сейчас  уже сильно хуже чем еще недавно

    Булава почти раза в 3 дешевле Трайдена, хоть хуже раза в 2 по забрасываемому весу. Лишний вес компенсируется ценой
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 18:30:09
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Или наоборот, 16.5 завалить, чтобы пасть так же низко.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 19:14:23
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 17:42:41
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 09:21:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 09:00:21
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.

    С какой тягой? 100 процентов, или чуть пониже?
    Или чуть повыше
    А пламя было красное, и СШ до орбиты не долетел. Может все же прикрутили дроссель для этой итерации?
    Или нет
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 19:20:12
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 19:14:23Или нет
    В смысле пламя было таки синее, и СШ долетел до орбиты? Что сказать то хотели?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 19:40:08
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 17:42:41А пламя было красное, и СШ до орбиты не долетел. Может все же прикрутили дроссель для этой итерации?
    Со второй версии Рапторов цвет ожидаемо стал красным  - у Рапторов же обильное пленочное охлаждение, буквально заливают КС жидким метаном.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 19:59:15
    Цитата: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 19:40:08
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 17:42:41А пламя было красное, и СШ до орбиты не долетел. Может все же прикрутили дроссель для этой итерации?
    Со второй версии Рапторов цвет ожидаемо стал красным  - у Рапторов же обильное пленочное охлаждение, буквально заливают КС жидким метаном.
    А до этого полета был желтый.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 20:05:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 19:59:15А до этого полета был желтый.
    На B7 были Рапторы V1 с меньшей тягой и меньшим давлением в КС.
    Окрас давали прежде всего многочисленные пожары и утечки.

    starship-plume-comparison-ift-1-vs-ift-2-v0-hntvdaeie71c1_png_85.jpg
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 20:08:35
    не стоит сравнивать цвет пламени сверхвысокопроизводительного  Раптор 2 с «среднепроизводительной версией высокопроизводительной архитектуры»


    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:10:49
    Цитата: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 20:05:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 19:59:15А до этого полета был желтый.
    На B7 были Рапторы V1 с меньшей тягой и меньшим давлением в КС.
    Окрас давали прежде всего многочисленные пожары и утечки.
    Да, пожалуй вы правы, цвет сладкого факела пурпурный. Но черт возьми, как же Безосу удалось достичь кислого голубого? Или у него давление в КС пониже?

    Пошарился - похоже на то. У BE-4 вдвое ниже давление в КС.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:51:02В результате старые фирмы и примкнувшие пускают ракеты с первого раза, и айтишники тоже пускают, но пузыри. Что тут сравнивать, интересно?
    Только вот задачи "пускать ракеты с первого раза" на самом деле нет. И тратить лишние деньги и время на эту несуществующую задачу не нужно.

    С точки зрения конечного продукта довольно безразлично, неудачные идеи отсеиваются в процессе неудачных пусков прототипов или на спрятанных от публики стендах и компьютерах в офисе. И то, и другое стоит денег.

    А с точки зрения восторженной публики пуски (даже неудачные) - гораздо интереснее, чем муторное долгое проектирование, чтобы с первого пуска сразу полетело.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:18:03
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 20:08:35не стоит сравнивать цвет пламени сверхвысокопроизводительного  Раптор 2 с «среднепроизводительной версией высокопроизводительной архитектуры»
    Какой то малопроизводительный у вас комментарий. Цвет пламени определяется содержанием кислорода, а не приставками сверх-пупер-гипер.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:19:20
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:51:02В результате старые фирмы и примкнувшие пускают ракеты с первого раза, и айтишники тоже пускают, но пузыри. Что тут сравнивать, интересно?
    Только вот задачи "пускать ракеты с первого раза" на самом деле нет. И тратить лишние деньги и время на эту несуществующую задачу не нужно.
    Самого дела  нет. Деньги есть, это правда, и как вы считаете, кто потратил больше?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: strat от 10.01.2024 20:19:55
    https://vz.ru/news/2017/10/20/891816.html
    "Он отметил, что у американской компании впереди много работы, прежде чем двигатель, который, как предполагается, заменит РД-180, можно будет эксплуатировать.
    Арбузов добавил, что НПО долгое время успешно работает над собственным двигателем на топливной смеси кислород – метан. Работа эта началась еще в 1997 году в Конструкторском бюро химавтоматики (КБХА). Сейчас работа продолжается в рамках Федеральной космической программы."
    Работы над Blue Engine- 4 начались в 11 году
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:25:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:19:20
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 07:51:02В результате старые фирмы и примкнувшие пускают ракеты с первого раза, и айтишники тоже пускают, но пузыри. Что тут сравнивать, интересно?
    Только вот задачи "пускать ракеты с первого раза" на самом деле нет. И тратить лишние деньги и время на эту несуществующую задачу не нужно.
    Самого дела  нет. Деньги есть, это правда, и как вы считаете, кто потратил больше?

    Делу время. В пересчёте на единицу двигателей или стартовых столов - ЮЛА естественно больше.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:29:17
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:25:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:19:20Самого дела  нет. Деньги есть, это правда, и как вы считаете, кто потратил больше?

    Делу время. В пересчёте на единицу двигателей или стартовых столов - ЮЛА естественно больше.

    У вас и цифры есть?
    Качественно ЮЛА впереди - у них есть результат.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:34:42
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:29:17
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:25:29
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:19:20Самого дела  нет. Деньги есть, это правда, и как вы считаете, кто потратил больше?

    Делу время. В пересчёте на единицу двигателей или стартовых столов - ЮЛА естественно больше.

    У вас и цифры есть?
    Качественно ЮЛА впереди - у них есть результат.
    Сравнивать качество можно только у сравнимых вещей. Качества стула и раскладушки разные.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:35:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:34:42Сравнивать качество можно только у сравнимых вещей. Качества стула и раскладушки разные.

    ПН на целевой орбите. Двигатели сопоставимые, причем BE-4 немного мощнее Raptor-2.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:40:40
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Это что же получается, уже 66 рапторов спалили в крайних двух пусках, причем безрезультатно, а BE-4 - два, с результатом. Выходит в тридцать раз лучшая эффективность? Или в 33?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:50:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:35:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:34:42Сравнивать качество можно только у сравнимых вещей. Качества стула и раскладушки разные.

    ПН на целевой орбите. Двигатели сопоставимые, причем BE-4 немного мощнее Raptor-2.
    Но Раптор 2 сделано больше и они дешевле. И Бе-4 сыграл такую же роль в этом пуске, как и Раптор 2 в последнем пуске Старшипа. И было из в 15 раз больше.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:52:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:40:40
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Это что же получается, уже 66 рапторов спалили в крайних двух пусках, причем безрезультатно, а BE-4 - два, с результатом. Выходит в тридцать раз лучшая эффективность? Или в 33?
    Целью спаления 66 рапторов не было выведение ПН на орбиту. Их цели была разогнать вторую ступень до разделения. Так же как и БЕ-4 у Вулкана. Во втором пуске они выполнили свою работу блестяще. 

    Выведение ПН на орбиту было целью РН. В состав которой кроме БЕ-4 у Вулкана еще как минимум  RL-10 входят. Цель Старшипа это не только выведение ПН, но и сохранение всех частей РН, быстрое повторное их использование, огромная грузоподъемность, дешевизна изготовления.

    Этап работы первой степени на метане Старшип прошел так же успешно
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:53:10
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:50:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:35:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:34:42Сравнивать качество можно только у сравнимых вещей. Качества стула и раскладушки разные.

    ПН на целевой орбите. Двигатели сопоставимые, причем BE-4 немного мощнее Raptor-2.
    Но Раптор 2 сделано больше и они дешевле.
    Это все пустое, пока они не выведут ПН, этих двигателей нет. Есть прототипы.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:54:06
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:52:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:40:40
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Это что же получается, уже 66 рапторов спалили в крайних двух пусках, причем безрезультатно, а BE-4 - два, с результатом. Выходит в тридцать раз лучшая эффективность? Или в 33?
    Целью спаления 66 рапторов не было выведение ПН на орбиту. Их цели была разогнать вторую ступень до разделения. так же как и БЕ-4 у Вулкана. Во втором пуске они выполнили свою работу блестяще.
    Ничего блестящего не вижу, вторая ступень не долетела до орбиты. О какой такой ПН вы толкуете, она там вообще была?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:57:10
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:53:10
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:50:50
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:35:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:34:42Сравнивать качество можно только у сравнимых вещей. Качества стула и раскладушки разные.

    ПН на целевой орбите. Двигатели сопоставимые, причем BE-4 немного мощнее Raptor-2.
    Но Раптор 2 сделано больше и они дешевле.
    Это все пустое, пока они не выведут ПН, этих двигателей нет. Есть прототипы.
    Это всё пустое, пока сравниваете мягкое с красным.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:58:41
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:54:06
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:52:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:40:40
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 18:22:27
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 08:45:36Сравнивать Вулкан и Старшип нельзя. Вулкан не полностью многоразовый свертяж .

    Раптор отработал полную циклограмму этапа вывода первой ступени во втором пуске.


    33 Раптора  ;D это 16,5 Вулканов надо запустить чтобы получить такую же статистику по BE-4
    Это что же получается, уже 66 рапторов спалили в крайних двух пусках, причем безрезультатно, а BE-4 - два, с результатом. Выходит в тридцать раз лучшая эффективность? Или в 33?
    Целью спаления 66 рапторов не было выведение ПН на орбиту. Их цели была разогнать вторую ступень до разделения. так же как и БЕ-4 у Вулкана. Во втором пуске они выполнили свою работу блестяще.
    Ничего блестящего не вижу, вторая ступень не долетела до орбиты. О какой такой ПН вы толкуете, она там вообще была?
    БЕ-4 тоже вторую ступень до орбиты не довели. Вот именно, что не было. И орбиты не планировалось.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:01:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:57:10Это всё пустое, пока сравниваете мягкое с красным.

    Двигатели сопоставимые по тяге. Или вас цвет логотипа не устраивает?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:04:21
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:01:43
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 20:57:10Это всё пустое, пока сравниваете мягкое с красным.

    Двигатели сопоставимые по тяге. Или вас цвет логотипа не устраивает?
    И оба двигателя доказали свою работоспособность в последних пусках. Меня всё устраивает, это у вас какая то предвзятость
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:15:18
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:04:21И оба двигателя доказали свою работоспособность в последних пусках. Меня всё устраивает, это у вас какая то предвзятость

    BE-4 доказал, поскольку ПН вышла на целевую орбиту. Раптор мог бы доказать, если бы были известны расчетные параметры разделения ступеней. По косвенным признакам (пустая вторая ступень не достигла орбиты, хотя и сожгла все топливо) эти параметры были существенно ниже расчетных.

    У вас есть какие то цифры в поддержку "блестящего" результата рапторов?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:33:42
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:15:18
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:04:21И оба двигателя доказали свою работоспособность в последних пусках. Меня всё устраивает, это у вас какая то предвзятость

    BE-4 доказал, поскольку ПН вышла на целевую орбиту. Раптор мог бы доказать, если бы были известны расчетные параметры разделения ступеней. По косвенным признакам (вторая ступень не достигла орбиты, хотя и сожгла все топливо) эти параметры были существенно ниже расчетных.

    У вас есть какие то цифры в поддержку "блестящего" результата рапторов?
    Да есть. Все 33 Раптора зажглись когда нужно, все 30 выключились, когда нужно. Кроме трёх, которые продолжали работать, как нужно. как и БЕ на первой ступени Вулкана

    Домыслы же про косвенные признаки оставьте при себе. Причин неудачи работы второй ступени могло быть множество.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:38:53
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:33:42Да есть. Все 33 Раптора зажглись когда нужно, все 30 выключились, когда нужно. Кроме трёх, которые продолжали работать, как нужно. как и БЕ на первой ступени Вулкана
    В таком случае план выведения подразумевал вывод на орбиту пустой второй ступени, но с ней что-то пошло не так..
    Из вышесказанного можно сказать, что результат работы рапторов был или блестящим, или не блестящим. Мутный результат.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 10.01.2024 21:50:07
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11Только вот задачи "пускать ракеты с первого раза" на самом деле нет.
    Если только Вы не хотите на коммерческий рынок, где цена страховки определяет рентабельность, а для страховщиков нужна безаварийность.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:52:18
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 21:38:53
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:33:42Да есть. Все 33 Раптора зажглись когда нужно, все 30 выключились, когда нужно. Кроме трёх, которые продолжали работать, как нужно. как и БЕ на первой ступени Вулкана
    В таком случае план выведения подразумевал вывод на орбиту пустой второй ступени, но с ней что-то пошло не так..
    Из вышесказанного можно сказать, что результат работы рапторов был или блестящим, или не блестящим. Мутный результат.
    Если без гадания или или, то первая ступень по "косвенным признакам" отработала штатно этап выведения. Это вообще никак не отменяет и не принижает успехов Вулкана и БЕ-4. Это вообще разные проекты с разной идеологией применения и разными требованиями.

    Если вам так хочется проигрыша Маска, то давайте лучше дождемся первого удачного многоразового пуска Нью Глена и порадуемся этому.  Если проект Старшипа к тому моменту не увенчается успехом и докажет свою несостоятельность.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 22:00:31
    Цитата: Водитель от 10.01.2024 21:52:18Если без гадания или или, то первая ступень по "косвенным признакам" отработала штатно этап выведения.
    Это именно гадание, поскольку неизвестна расчетная скорость разделения.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: garg от 10.01.2024 23:31:53
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11С точки зрения конечного продукта довольно безразлично, неудачные идеи отсеиваются в процессе неудачных пусков прототипов или на спрятанных от публики стендах и компьютерах в офисе. И то, и другое стоит денег.
    Ну так то важно думаю. Для страховки. Если у вас ракета полетела с первого раза без танцев с бубнами под фейрверки, то думается успешная серия для снижения ставок существенно сокращается в отличии от ферверочной феерии. Там то  гораздо сильнее непонятно, тупо повезло с очередным пуском, или это результат того что ошибки все выловленныи и устраннены?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 23:44:29
    Цитата: garg от 10.01.2024 23:31:53Ну так то важно думаю. Для страховки. Если у вас ракета полетела с первого раза без танцев с бубнами под фейрверки, то думается успешная серия для снижения ставок существенно сокращается в отличии от ферверочной феерии. Там то  гораздо сильнее непонятно, тупо повезло с очередным пуском, или это результат того что ошибки все выловленныи и устраннены?
    Поэтому изначально на Старшипе будут запускать только Старлинки.
    Вообще Старшип не следует воспринимать как готовую ракету - всё что мы видим - это этап разработки. И он будет продолжатся ещё несколько сотен запусков с постоянным внесением изменений. Вот когда вынесут финальную версию Старшипа, через пару лет, ... к концу десятилетия, - вот тогда и можно будет сравнить полет с Вулканом.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: garg от 10.01.2024 23:53:41
    Цитата: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 23:44:29Вот когда вынесут финальную версию Старшипа, через пару лет, ... к концу десятилетия, - вот тогда и можно будет сравнить полет с Вулканом.
    Это вы Илон-таймом пользуетесь? (пару лет) х 3  = конец десятилетия, ага, все правильно. Только пусков будет несколько сотен/6(9).
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: AlexandrU от 11.01.2024 00:50:48
    Цитата: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 23:44:29Вот когда вынесут финальную версию Старшипа, через пару лет, ...
    Главное, чтоб не вперёд рапторами...

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 08:29:39
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 10.01.2024 21:50:07
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 10.01.2024 20:15:11Только вот задачи "пускать ракеты с первого раза" на самом деле нет.
    Если только Вы не хотите на коммерческий рынок, где цена страховки определяет рентабельность, а для страховщиков нужна безаварийность.
    Для страховщиков нужно ОЖИДАНИЕ безаварийности в будущем. Когда Маск успешно посадит первый старшип, его весь обследуют дефектоскопом, выявят слабые места и исправят. Надёжность радикально повысится.

    Недаром страховщики были согласны с запуском дорогого коммерческого спутника на самом первом б/у фалконе. И по слухам, та страховка была даже дешевле, чем на новом экземпляре ракеты.

    Также не надо путать "успешно запускать ракету с первого раза" и "успешно запускать полезную нагрузку с первого раза".
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 11.01.2024 08:48:04
    Цитата: strat от 10.01.2024 20:19:55НПО долгое время успешно работает над собственным двигателем
    Надо взять на заметку. На планерках так буду отвечать на вопросы чем я занимаюсь.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 11.01.2024 08:48:42
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 08:29:39Также не надо путать "успешно запускать ракету с первого раза" и "успешно запускать полезную нагрузку с первого раза".
    Никто и не путает. И то, и другое в ULA было успешным.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 09:38:20
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 08:29:39И по слухам, та страховка была даже дешевле, чем на новом экземпляре ракеты.
    По слухам? Может оно конечно страховщики расслабились, но Маск то действует не по стандартам рынка пусковых услуг. А ULA - это старая школа.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 11.01.2024 10:43:20
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:40:40Это что же получается, уже 66 рапторов спалили в крайних двух пусках, причем безрезультатно, а BE-4 - два, с результатом. Выходит в тридцать раз лучшая эффективность? Или в 33?
    78. И с тем же результатом - ибо ничего значимого в первом запуске всё равно никто не выводит. Но всё равно веселее бетонного блока.
    Но тут надо смотреть сколько ВЕ-4 спалили на стендах итд. Потому как в первом запуске СШ были рапторы v1, во втором v2, а сейчас в производстве v3. Т.е. их всё равно утилизировать.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:43:41
    Забавный факт. Метан снижает мю МП настолько же, как и многоразовость.  ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Лог от 11.01.2024 11:51:45
    Не помню спрашивал, или нет. Почему диаметры вулкана и Ариан похожи?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:55:11
    Цитата: Лог от 11.01.2024 11:51:45Не помню спрашивал, или нет. Почему диаметры вулкана и Ариан похожи?
    Так то есть диапазон оптимального удлинения ракеты. И при близкой стартовой массе диаметры будут близки.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Лог от 11.01.2024 12:00:41
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:55:11
    Цитата: Лог от 11.01.2024 11:51:45Не помню спрашивал, или нет. Почему диаметры вулкана и Ариан похожи?
    Так то есть диапазон оптимального удлинения ракеты. И при близкой стартовой массе диаметры будут близки.
    Спасибо. Насамомделе интересно другое их не в одном месте делают?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: fagot от 11.01.2024 15:19:03
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:43:41Забавный факт. Метан снижает мю МП настолько же, как и многоразовость.  ;D
    Как вы это определили?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 11.01.2024 15:37:55
    Цитата: fagot от 11.01.2024 15:19:03
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:43:41Забавный факт. Метан снижает мю МП настолько же, как и многоразовость.  ;D
    Как вы это определили?
    Это, видимо, "шютка такой".
    Например, автор этого прикола оставил неизменной объем баков при сравнении,
    (тупо берем РН керосинку и тупо вместо керосина заливаем метан)
    или что то ещё в таком "типа хитром" пафосно-пародоксальном стиле.

    Ранее подобные приколисты тут пытались уверить, что при увеличении УИ ЖРД
    ПН падает, так как увеличиваются гравитационные потери.
    Прикол тут в том, что грав потери действительно увеличиваются, 
    но это с лихвой компенсируется большим временем работы движка.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Seerndv от 11.01.2024 15:52:04
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 20:10:49
    Цитата: RaZoom от 10.01.2024 20:05:15
    Цитата: nonconvex от 10.01.2024 19:59:15А до этого полета был желтый.
    На B7 были Рапторы V1 с меньшей тягой и меньшим давлением в КС.
    Окрас давали прежде всего многочисленные пожары и утечки.
    Да, пожалуй вы правы, цвет сладкого факела пурпурный. Но черт возьми, как же Безосу удалось достичь кислого голубого? Или у него давление в КС пониже?
    Пошарился - похоже на то. У BE-4 вдвое ниже давление в КС.
    https://www.blueorigin.com/engines/be-4
    (https://img.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/353915.jpg)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 19:16:11
    Цитата: fagot от 11.01.2024 15:19:03
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:43:41Забавный факт. Метан снижает мю МП настолько же, как и многоразовость.  ;D
    Как вы это определили?
    На калькуляторе. Если сравнить Вулкан без ТТУ на опорной с Фалконом-9 в многоразовом варианте на опорном, получаться близкие значения.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 19:17:16
    Цитата: amster от 11.01.2024 15:37:55Это, видимо, "шютка такой".
    Просто метан не зарешал.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 11.01.2024 20:02:06
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:55:11
    Цитата: Лог от 11.01.2024 11:51:45Не помню спрашивал, или нет. Почему диаметры вулкана и Ариан похожи?
    Так то есть диапазон оптимального удлинения ракеты. И при близкой стартовой массе диаметры будут близки.
    Вряд ли там заморачивались расчетами оптимального удлинения. Взяли УРМ от Дельты-4 и залили в него метан вместо водорода.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 20:41:54
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 09:38:20
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 08:29:39И по слухам, та страховка была даже дешевле, чем на новом экземпляре ракеты.
    По слухам? Может оно конечно страховщики расслабились, но Маск то действует не по стандартам рынка пусковых услуг. 
    Да, не по стандартам. А именно он позволяет широкой публике видеть процесс доводки сырого изделия до готового состояния.

    А ULA действуют по "стандартам", вся работа за кулисами, поэтому никто не знает, сколько железа они угробили на стендовых испытаниях и сколько раз перепроектировали изделие до того, как получилось. Не понимаю только, почему сокрытие от публики процесса разработки должно привести к более надёжному конечному продукту.

    Если бы Маск заявил, что старшип готов к коммерческой эксплуатации, а выкатил бы взрывающуюся в полёте сырую недоделку, я бы с Вами согласился. Но он прямо же сказал, что это прототип, что он не готов, и что выход на орбиту был бы большим везением.

    Про страховку первого б/у фалкона тут написано (https://spaceflightnow.com/2016/09/13/ses-stands-by-spacex-after-getting-good-discount-on-reused-rocket/), со ссылкой на владельца спутника. По статье - стоимость страховки "существенно не изменилась".
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 11.01.2024 20:47:33
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 20:41:54
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 09:38:20
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 08:29:39И по слухам, та страховка была даже дешевле, чем на новом экземпляре ракеты.
    По слухам? Может оно конечно страховщики расслабились, но Маск то действует не по стандартам рынка пусковых услуг.
    Да, не по стандартам. А именно он позволяет широкой публике видеть процесс доводки сырого изделия до готового состояния.
    Публика требует зрелищ?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42
    Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4, но и оптимальность наверно просчитали.

    У японских Н 2 и 3 тоже 5,2 метра. У китайской CZ-5 около 5. Все рядом для РН сравнимых параметров.

    И только у нас извечный жд габарит.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: nonconvex от 11.01.2024 20:52:53
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 20:41:54А ULA действуют по "стандартам", вся работа за кулисами, поэтому никто не знает, сколько железа они угробили на стендовых испытаниях и сколько раз перепроектировали изделие до того, как получилось.
    Клевещут, что их не учили сопромату, и они действуют методом тыка.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4. 
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: opinion от 12.01.2024 07:41:26
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4.
    Эта разница не за счет теплоизоляции?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 12.01.2024 08:17:46
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4.
    И тем не менее используется.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 09:14:07
    Цитата: Водитель от 12.01.2024 08:17:46
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4.
    И тем не менее используется.
    Это так не работает.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 12.01.2024 10:27:13
    Цитата: Лог от 11.01.2024 11:51:45Не помню спрашивал, или нет. Почему диаметры вулкана и Ариан похожи?
    Я Вам больше скажу: диаметр Фэлкон-9 (3660 мм) очень похож на диаметр УРМ-2 (3600 мм) ;D
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 12.01.2024 10:53:13
    Цитата: amster от 11.01.2024 15:37:55
    Цитата: fagot от 11.01.2024 15:19:03
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 11:43:41Забавный факт. Метан снижает мю МП настолько же, как и многоразовость.  ;D
    Как вы это определили?
    Это, видимо, "шютка такой".
    Не шутка - просто для каждого топлива, количества движков и варианта разовости свой оптимальный мюПН.
    Для одноразовых его оптимальней минимизировать - потому что движки дорогие а топливо дешёвое
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 12.01.2024 10:59:21
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 09:14:07
    Цитата: Водитель от 12.01.2024 08:17:46
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4.
    И тем не менее используется.
    Это так не работает.
    Никогда бы не подумал. 

    Так и пишу, что просто брать бак от Дельты они не стали и не могли. Но линию от Дельты дорабатывали под Вулкан. И на фото/видео сборки Вулкана часть оснастки та же, на которой собирали Дельту.

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: fagot от 12.01.2024 12:45:34
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 19:16:11На калькуляторе. Если сравнить Вулкан без ТТУ на опорной с Фалконом-9 в многоразовом варианте на опорном, получаться близкие значения.
    Стартовые тяговооруженности сравнивали?
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: uncle_jew от 12.01.2024 16:42:28
    Цитата: nonconvex от 11.01.2024 20:47:33
    Цитата: uncle_jew от 11.01.2024 20:41:54Да, не по стандартам. А именно он позволяет широкой публике видеть процесс доводки сырого изделия до готового состояния.
    Публика требует зрелищ?
    Разумеется. И я думаю, что зрелища Маску в целом пользу приносят, ибо в тех же страховках тоже люди работают. И видят, что несмотря на изначальные неудачи и "колхоз", в итоге получается надёжный продукт. Небольшая, но помощь, когда страховка для чего-то нового понадобится.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Dulevo от 12.01.2024 18:41:41
    "Дуракам половину работы не показывают".

    Открытость работ в Бока-Чике для публики - не результат действия СпейсХ-а - а чистая случайность.
    Ну не было другого места для космодрома. А рядом какая-то важная автодорога которую по желанию частной компании никто закрывать не будет.

    В итоге может любой подьехать на автомобиле и посмотреть чем они там занимаются.

    Маск с удовольствием прикрыл бы это дело и никому не рассказывал бы об очередном взрыве очередного изделия. Но смирился с неизбежным.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Водитель от 12.01.2024 19:03:39
    Какие дороги нельзя перекрывать в атлантическом океане? Неудачные посадки первых ступеней на баржи они показывали. И какие законы запрещают устанавливать ворота на ангары в Бока-Чике?

    Они всегда были публичны.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 12.01.2024 19:17:23
    Цитата: Dulevo от 12.01.2024 18:41:41"Дуракам половину работы не показывают".
    И как вы предлагаете скрывать полеты таких полуфабрикатов? Эта сапожницкая поговорка неприменима к проекту такого масштаба. Да и Маску, очевидно, нравится делать шоу из любых своих проектов.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 22:25:20
    Цитата: Водитель от 12.01.2024 10:59:21
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 09:14:07
    Цитата: Водитель от 12.01.2024 08:17:46
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 12.01.2024 01:10:54
    Цитата: Водитель от 11.01.2024 20:47:42Для производства Вулкана конечно вроде как используется оснастка от Дельты 4
    5,09 против 5,4.
    И тем не менее используется.
    Это так не работает.
    Никогда бы не подумал.

    Так и пишу, что просто брать бак от Дельты они не стали и не могли. Но линию от Дельты дорабатывали под Вулкан. И на фото/видео сборки Вулкана часть оснастки та же, на которой собирали Дельту.


    Я не знаю, что Вы называете оснасткой. Там разные диаметры.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дем от 13.01.2024 00:48:45
    Цитата: Dulevo от 12.01.2024 18:41:41"Дуракам половину работы не показывают".
    Раз полетело - это явно не половина.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 15.01.2024 11:00:25
    Странно что даже после полета нет подробной инфы о РН Вулкан.
    Например неизвестна ни высота метанового ЦБ. ни его масса.
    А для движка БЕ-4 до сих пор нет данных об УИ - а это ключевой параметр.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vissarion от 16.01.2024 19:04:16
    Цитата: amster от 15.01.2024 11:00:25неизвестна ни высота метанового ЦБ. ни его масса
    габариты известны точно:
    Центавр: 5.4 x 11.7 (стандартный. не удлинённый)
    ЦБ: 5.4 x 33.3
    SRB: 1.6 x 21.9

    Веса примерно:
    55 т стандартный центавр
    400 т мокрый ЦБ, 30 т сухой
    каждый SRB по 50 т
    6 т переходники и стандартный обтекатель
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: amster от 16.01.2024 19:10:37
    Цитата: vissarion от 16.01.2024 19:04:16
    Цитата: amster от 15.01.2024 11:00:25неизвестна ни высота метанового ЦБ. ни его масса
    габариты известны точно:
    Центавр: 5.4 x 11.7 (стандартный. не удлинённый)
    ЦБ: 5.4 x 33.3
    SRB: 1.6 x 21.9

    Веса примерно:
    55 т стандартный центавр
    400 т мокрый ЦБ, 30 т сухой
    каждый SRB по 50 т
    6 т переходники и стандартный обтекатель
    ТТУшки и упоминать не стоило  - они стандартные и давно известные.
    А инфа про длину ЦБ откуда?

    За инфу о примерной массе ЦБ спасибо, хотя особо интересны именно точные данные.

    Но вот УИ движка БЕ-4 по прежнему строго секретен.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vissarion от 16.01.2024 21:44:49
    Цитата: amster от 16.01.2024 19:10:37А инфа про длину ЦБ откуда?
    Как у всех американских коммерческих ракет, у вулкана есть официальные гайды для заказчиков: 1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231023124358/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/2023_vulcan_user_guide.pdf), 2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231212183410/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/vulcancentaur.pdf) , там есть габариты, конфигурации, переходники, профили полёта.
    Развесовок нет (есть только для центавра) - они заказчикам не важны, им главное - габариты чтобы в обтекатель вписаться и на переходник поставить, ну и орбиты.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 16.01.2024 22:19:49
    Цитата: vissarion от 16.01.2024 21:44:49
    Цитата: amster от 16.01.2024 19:10:37А инфа про длину ЦБ откуда?
    Как у всех американских коммерческих ракет, у вулкана есть официальные гайды для заказчиков: 1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231023124358/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/2023_vulcan_user_guide.pdf), 2 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231212183410/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/vulcancentaur.pdf) , там есть габариты, конфигурации, переходники, профили полёта.
    Развесовок нет (есть только для центавра) - они заказчикам не важны, им главное - габариты чтобы в обтекатель вписаться и на переходник поставить, ну и орбиты.
    Ксьтати кто-нибудь может скачать User's guide? Меня сайт ULA не пускает
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: vissarion от 16.01.2024 22:32:40
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 16.01.2024 22:19:49Ксьтати кто-нибудь может скачать User's guide? Меня сайт ULA не пускает
    1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231023124358/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/2023_vulcan_user_guide.pdf) - это копия на Web Archive, на случай если на самом ULA удалят, копия 2 (https://archive.is/j4Yjg)
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Дмитрий В. от 16.01.2024 23:03:06
    Цитата: vissarion от 16.01.2024 22:32:40
    Цитата: Дмитрий В. от 16.01.2024 22:19:49Ксьтати кто-нибудь может скачать User's guide? Меня сайт ULA не пускает
    1 (https://web.archive.org/web/20231023124358/https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/2023_vulcan_user_guide.pdf) - это копия на Web Archive, на случай если на самом ULA удалят, копия 2 (https://archive.is/j4Yjg)

    Спасибо! Сходу не заметил
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: fagot от 17.01.2024 17:43:00
    Ссылка от Старого http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_1/Vulcan-Centaur/Propulsion/engines.htm

    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 17.01.2024 18:40:57
    Цитата: fagot от 17.01.2024 17:43:00Ссылка от Старого http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_1/Vulcan-Centaur/Propulsion/engines.htm (http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_2/United_States_1/Vulcan-Centaur/Propulsion/engines.htm)
    Оно, конечно, хорошо. Но статьям без ссылок на официальные источники как-то не доверяю... Кто его знает - а вдруг из пальца высосано :(
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 17.01.2024 18:50:42
    ЦитироватьVulcan Centaur Vehicle
    The Vulcan Centaur Launch Vehicle will have a gross lift-off mass of approximately 450 to 780 tons and produce approximately 1.1-3.5 million pounds of thrust. The vehicle's overall liftoff height is 199.8 feet with a diameter of 17.7 feet. The Vulcan first stage will integrate with the Centaur V upper stage which is similar to but larger than the current Centaur III stage flying on Atlas V.
    The Vulcan Centaur Launch Vehicle will contain a larger diameter booster tank than the Atlas V. The first stage will use new BE-4 booster engines. A single BE-4 engine consumes approximately 150,000 pounds (68,038 kilograms) of LNG and 500,000 pounds (226,796 kilograms) of LO2. Multiple SRM configuration options in zero, two, four or six Orbital ATK GEM-63XL engines can be specified depending on payload and performance requirements. The Centaur second stage will have two RL10 LO2/LH2 engines.
    По идее, чтобы получить заправку ЦБ, числа надо умножить на два. Правда, тут возникает вопрос: приведённые значения - это именно расходуемые компоненты или всё же РЗТ?.. :) 
    Из отчёта "Environmental Assessment Draft Final Vulcan Centaur Program Operations and Launch on Cape Canaveral Air Force Station".
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: C-300-2 от 17.01.2024 19:13:22
    Мне кажется, или тут описана конструкция уплотнения между донным экраном и двигуном?.. https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c6/4c/05/af7b6331a0f426/US11391243.pdf
    ПыСы. Список патентов Бю ориджин тут: https://patents.justia.com/assignee/blue-origin-llc
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Schwalbe от 17.01.2024 20:37:54
    Цитата: fagot от 12.01.2024 12:45:34
    Цитата: Schwalbe от 11.01.2024 19:16:11На калькуляторе. Если сравнить Вулкан без ТТУ на опорной с Фалконом-9 в многоразовом варианте на опорном, получаться близкие значения.
    Стартовые тяговооруженности сравнивали?
    В каждой шутке есть доля шутки.
    Название: РН Вулкан - Vulcan Centaur heavy-lift launch vehicle (Планов громадье в ULA)
    Отправлено: Arzach от 22.02.2024 13:19:31
    Поползли тут слухи...
    Цитата: https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/blue-origin-has-emerged-as-the-likely-buyer-for-united-launch-alliance/Ракетная компания Blue Origin, принадлежащая основателю Amazon Джеффу Безосу, стала единственным претендентом на покупку United Launch Alliance.

    Продажа не является официальной, и официально ничего не объявлено. Совладельцы United Launch Alliance (ULA), Lockheed Martin и Boeing, пока публично не прокомментировали продажу компании, которая до появления SpaceX была единственным крупным поставщиком пусковых услуг в США. В среду они снова отказались от комментариев: «В соответствии с нашей корпоративной практикой Boeing не комментирует потенциальные рыночные слухи или спекуляции», — заявил представитель Boeing.

    Blue Origin не ответила на запрос о комментариях. Однако два источника сообщили Ars, что Blue Origin близка к покупке ULA. Источники сообщили, что лично не видели подписанных соглашений, но ожидают, что о продаже будет объявлено в течение месяца-двух.
    ...