Автор Петр Зайцев, 11.08.2009 16:17:18
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ЦитатаВал пишет:ЦитатаСтарый пишет:Фигня. Найдут отечественные материалы с характеристиками даже превышающими наши, милиметры округлят вверх до десятой или сотой дюйма и всё будет железобетонно.Никаких сомнений в том что могут сделать и нет Захотят ли?Да и вот еще "нюансик" - сопутствующие патенты-то принадлежат энергомашу и они (патенты), кроме России, зарегистрированы еще и в США. А это снова отчисления, отчисления...
ЦитатаСтарый пишет:Фигня. Найдут отечественные материалы с характеристиками даже превышающими наши, милиметры округлят вверх до десятой или сотой дюйма и всё будет железобетонно.
ЦитатаСтарый пишет:Я думаю что технической, технологической и юридической проблемы нет вообще. Проблема в уровне зарплаты. Произведённый в США американскими рабочими этот двигатель будет стоить столько что Атлас мгновенно окажется неконкурентоспособен. А тут ещё как назло этот Маск...
ЦитатаЧебурашка пишет:А почему вы думаете, что это будет точная копия РД-180 со всеми заморочками? А не что-то "по-мотивам", на основе американской технологической культуры и инженерных традиций. По-проще и по-дешевле. Что-то мне думается, что примут решение разрабатывать что-то на основе уменьшенного в два раза F-1. С открытым циклом и одной камерой. А меньший удельный импульс компенсируют за счёт роста тяги на первой ступени.
ЦитатаRussian Engine on Rocket Needs U.S. Review, Hagel SaysBy Tony Capaccio Mar 13, 2014 11:20 PM GMT+0400 Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel today told a House defense panel that Russia's actions in Ukraine will lead the Pentagon to reassess the use of Russian-made engines on Atlas V rockets. "This is going to engage us in a review of that," Hagel told the House Appropriations defense subcommittee today. "No question about that." United Launch Alliance LLC, a joint venture of Boeing Co. (BA) and Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT), uses Russian-made engines on Atlas V rockets the Pentagon depends on to launch military satellites. Tensions over Russia's military intervention in Ukraine's Crimea region has sparked questions about that supply connection. The Pentagon leases launch services from United Launch Alliance, including the rocket. Bethesda, Maryland-based Lockheed used the Russian-made RD 180 engine for years on its Atlas V rocket before joining Chicago-based Boeing in the alliance. Elon Musk, the billionaire owner of Space Exploration Technologies Corp., a company that's trying to break into the military launch market, said at a congressional hearing on March 5 that launches may be at risk because of Boeing's and Lockheed's dependence on the Russian engine. Musk, who also is chairman and chief executive officer of Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA), said the Atlas V rockets should be phased out for the "long-term security interest of the country." United Launch Alliance has an engine supply of more than two years in the U.S., Michael Gass, president and chief operating officer of the company, said at the same hearing. "We bought all the blueprints and specifications, brought them into the country," and demonstrated "that we can take the blueprints and specifications" and replicate the engines if needed, Gass said. "We invested hundreds of millions of dollars to prove that we have the capability to demonstrate our ability to build that exact engine." To contact the reporter on this story: Tony Capaccio in Washington at firstname.lastname@example.org To contact the editors responsible for this story: John Walcott at email@example.com Larry Liebert, Stephanie Stoughton
ЦитатаCOLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -- United Launch Alliance chief executive Michael Gass said Monday the rocket builder is accelerating production of the Delta 4 launcher to ensure U.S. national security satellites can get to space in case imports of Russian rocket engines are halted.Gass told reporters Monday the decision to ramp up Delta 4 rocket production was part of a contingency plan adopted by ULA under the U.S. Defense Department's policy of assured access to space, which led to the development of the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rocket families in the 1990s."The first thing we're doing is making sure we're implementing that contingency plan, which includes the acceleration of Delta 4 production, so some of that work is underway," Gass said. Скрытый текст: ULA was formed in 2006 by the merger of Lockheed Martin's Atlas 5 rocket program with the Boeing-designed Delta 4, which uses U.S.-built engines, in a bid to cut overhead costs while maintaining two independent launch vehicle families.The future of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which has a first stage powered by Russian-built RD-180 engines, was muddled twice in the last three weeks, first when a U.S. federal judge issued a temporary injunction ordering ULA and the U.S. Air Force to stop purchasing the engine from Russia.The preliminary order was issued April 30 after SpaceX filed a lawsuit in the U.S. Court of Federal Claims attempting to block the sole-source award of 28 rocket launches to ULA. In its filing with the court, in which the company claimed it could launch U.S. military satellites at a quarter of ULA's costs, SpaceX alleged the purchases of the RD-180 engine might violate sanctions levied against Russian officials in the wake up the annexation of Crimea.The judge lifted the injunction May 8 after U.S. government officials submitted letters to the court saying they have no evidence the engine trade violates any sanctions.Then Russian deputy prime minister Dmitry Rogozin, who is charged with managing Russia's space and defense sectors, announced May 13 that Russia would restrict future RD-180 engine exports to only missions which serve civilian purposes.Gass said Monday he was not aware of any order from the Russian government to NPO Energomash, the manufacturer of the RD-180 engine, regarding the engine's export to the United States."Mr. Rogozin's comments were certainly a reaction to some comments that our country made about escalating the next round of sanctions," Gass said.There are 16 RD-180 engines currently in the United States. One of the engines will fly on an Atlas 5 rocket launch from Cape Canaveral scheduled for Thursday. Five more engines were due for delivery to the United States the second half of this year, according to Gass, and ULA has already purchased RD-180 engines to cover its commitments to the Pentagon in the Air Force's order of 36 rocket cores last year.The 36-core block buy is equivalent to 28 launches because four of the flights will use the Delta 4-Heavy, which is comprised of three first stage rocket cores to boost performance for heavier payloads. Of the 36 rocket cores ordered by the Air Force, Gass said 20 are for the Atlas 5 and 16 are for the Delta 4.If the Atlas 5 continued to launch at the same rate as recent years -- assuming no more RD-180 engine imports -- the supply would run out some time in 2016. The Atlas 5 is scheduled to launch U.S. military communications satellites, GPS navigation spacecraft, intelligence-gathering payloads for the National Reconnaissance Office, a NASA lander to Mars, and at least two commercial satellites over that period."We've kept a safety stock of engines in place to help with a smooth transition to move all those payloads to Delta 4 if necessary," Gass said.If Rogozin's statements are backed up with actions limiting RD-180 engine exports to support only civil launches, Gass said ULA and its RD-180 contractor, RD AMROSS, would take delivery of the engines anyway and use them on launches for NASA, commercial satellites, and commercial crew spacecraft under development to fly on Atlas 5."In that contingency plan, there will be certain missions that for sure will probably stay on Atlas because they're best configured for Atlas," Gass said. "Ones already dual-integrated on Delta 4 will be the easiest ones to switch. We're working different contingency plans for that."The Delta 4 rocket costs more than an Atlas 5 to put the same mass into orbit, requiring strap-on solid rocket boosters to loft a satellite that an Atlas 5 could launch with just its liquid-fueled first and second stages.Some larger U.S. military payloads, such as the Navy's Mobile User Objective System communications satellites, would have to upgrade to a $350 million Delta 4-Heavy rocket if they were removed from the Atlas 5 launch manifest.Those satellites will likely stay on the Atlas 5, Gass said, using the engines already delivered to the United States.Hastening the pace of Delta 4 manufacturing could reduce its cost in the long run, perhaps bringing its price into parity with the Atlas 5, according to Gass."The premise right now in the price sheet is that Delta 4, by similar capability, is more [expensive] than Atlas, but those were prices based on a certain build rate," Gass said. "Now, we're going to accelerate the build rate, and the Delta prices will come down accordingly. How much? We've got to go negotiate how much."Gass said ULA did not decide to advance production of the Delta 4 launcher at the request of the Defense Department."United Launch Alliance is committed, first and foremost, to the nation," Gass said. "We hold our commitments, so we're just going to move out and do it. We're not waiting for customers to ask us."ULA has already launched discussions with Delta 4 suppliers to move up deliveries."We have material on order with all our suppliers to support the block buy, so [we will] take what we already ordered and just accelerate the production of that, get it earlier and then supplant that with some additional long-lead material to make sure we can sustain a high production rate into the third and fourth years of the block buy contract," Gass said.The Delta 4's launch rate since the beginning of 2012 has been approximately one-half of the Atlas 5's.If Defense Department payloads are forced to swap rockets to the Delta 4, Gass said ULA's contract with the Air Force allows for flexibility to re-allocate launches between the company's two vehicles.But Gass would not say whether ULA or the U.S. government would have to pay the difference if satellites assigned to Atlas 5 end up riding on more expensive Delta 4s.Gass said his interpretation of Rogozin's announcement on the RD-180 engine was that the Russian deputy prime minister was discussing Russia's actions in response to U.S. sanctions.In a transcript of Rogozin's press conference posted to an official Russian government website, the deputy prime minister said Russia was taking steps to warn its partners in about potential reciprocal action against sanctions."It was a comment that if the United States did something, this is something he may do," Gass said of Rogozin's statement.Rogozin and Oleg Ostapenko, head of the Russian Federal Space Agency, raised concerns that restrictions on exports of defense-related products to Russia would disrupt Russian rocket businesses that rely on the international satellite market. Almost all large telecommunications satellites contain components built in the United States and Europe.Industry officials forecast little disruption for companies planning launches on Russian rockets this year, at least in terms of export licensing. Russia's Proton rocket is grounded after a May 15 launch failure, forcing customers booked to fly on it to pivot from worrying about political trouble to technical reliability.Most satellite export licenses for upcoming missions have already been issued, with no clear sign the U.S. State or Commerce departments plan to revoke them, despite public pronouncements claiming they could.RD-180 engines shipped to ULA up to now have been approved for dual-use missions, meaning they can be launched for military or civilian purposes, such as for NASA or a commercial customer."He said some important words that he would hold back for military use, which is just clearly a response to our country's comment about holding back exports for military use," Gass said. "It was truly a quid pro quo comment."
ЦитатаЧебурашка пишет: А почему вы думаете, что это будет точная копия РД-180 со всеми заморочками? А не что-то "по-мотивам", на основе американской технологической культуры и инженерных традиций. По-проще и по-дешевле. Что-то мне думается, что примут решение разрабатывать что-то на основе уменьшенного в два раза F-1. С открытым циклом и одной камерой. А меньший удельный импульс компенсируют за счёт роста тяги на первой ступени.
ЦитатаSFN пишет: ЦитатаВВК пишет:Как -то не двузначно Спейс Х назвали выскочкой upstart Перевод из « Англо-русского словаря общей лексики «Lingvo Universal» » ABBYY Lingvo 1. ;'ʌpstɑːt] сущ. 1) выскочка Синонимы: parvenu , forward pupil 2) недавно созданная компания 3. [ʌ'pstɑːt] прил. ; амер. ; пренебр. быстро достигший успеха ( о человеке, компании, фирме )
ЦитатаВВК пишет:Как -то не двузначно Спейс Х назвали выскочкой
ЦитатаПетр Зайцев пишет: Копия решений РД-180 на основе местных традиций называлась RS-84.
ЦитатаПетр Зайцев пишет: Вот он какой, Военно-Промышленны Комплекс. Друг друга гладят по спинке.
ЦитатаNotwithstanding Sanctions, ULA Standing By for RD-180 Deliveries through 2017 By Dan Leone | Aug. 6, 2014 Mark Peller, director of the hardware value stream for ULA, said ULA signed a contract earlier this year with RD-180 reseller RD Amross, a joint venture of the engine's Moscow-area manufacturer, NPO Energomash, and United Technologies Corp. of Hartford, Connecticut, that calls for delivery of 29 engines through 2017. Credit: ULA photoSAN DIEGO -- Economic sanctions the United States and Europe levied against the Russian government in July following the downing of a passenger jet by what U.S. authorities say was a Russian missile operated by Ukrainian separatists will not disrupt the flow of Russian-made RD-180 rocket engines to United Launch Alliance, a company executive said here Aug. 5."At our level, it's business as usual," Mark Peller, director of the hardware value stream for Denver-based ULA, said here in a panel presentation at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics' Space 2014 conference.Peller said ULA signed a contract earlier this year with RD-180 reseller RD Amross, a joint venture of the engine's Moscow-area manufacturer, NPO Energomash, and United Technologies Corp. of Hartford, Connecticut, that calls for delivery of 29 engines through 2017.ULA, a joint venture of Boeing and Lockheed Martin, expects to take delivery of the first two engines from that batch Aug. 20, Peller said. Three more would follow in October. Energomash would ship eight engines a year from 2015 through 2017, Peller said. The RD-180 powers the main stage of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, which along with the company's Delta 4 rocket launches the vast majority of U.S. national security spacecraft. The Lockheed Martin-designed Atlas 5 also launches all but the smallest science missions for NASA.Washington imposed an initial round of economic sanctions against Russia after that country annexed Ukraine's Crimean peninsula in March. The move prompted Dmitry Rogozin, Russia's deputy prime minister, to threaten a ban on any RD-180 sales connected with U.S. military launches.Rogozin, who has mocked the United States on Twitter, may have softened his position. According to a July 21 story from Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency, Rogozin said "[P]resently, the sale of engines [to the U.S.] benefits our engine-making enterprises in that they use the money for their own modernisation."Rogozin added, according to the story, "[w]e need the most modern engines that produce more thrust. In order to design them, we need free money. This is why we are prepared to sell them."Peller said recent ULA visits to Russia might have had something to do with the deputy prime minister's apparent change of heart."Our counterparts at NPO Energomash have talked to Mr. Rogozin directly and made him aware of the significance of our business arrangement," Peller said.The prospect of losing access to the RD-180 has spurred the U.S. government to consider a range of alternatives, including developing a domestic alternative or increasing production of the Boeing-designed Delta 4.Aerojet Rockedyne of Sacramento, California, says it has designed an alternative that could be flight ready in four years for an investment of less than $1 billion. The White House, which as recently as 2011 wanted NASA to deal with producing a high-thrust, closed-loop kerosene engine like the RD-180, has asked Congress to provide some $40 million in 2014 for the Defense Department to begin work on such a rocket engine. The House version of the 2015 defense appropriations bill includes $220 million for the effort next year, while a Senate committee's version recommends $25 million. Follow Peter on Twitter: @Leone_SN
ЦитатаULA and Blue Origin To Team Up for RD-180 Replacement By Mike Gruss | Sep. 16, 2014 Jeff Bezos (above), the founder of Blue Origin and Amazon.com, and Tory Bruno, the new chief executive of United Launch Alliance, will announce a strategic partnership between Blue Origin and ULA at a Sept. 17 event in Washington. Credit: Photo by Steve Jurvetson NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. -- United Launch Alliance, which launches nearly all U.S. government satellites, and secretive rocket-making startup Blue Origin will announce a strategic partnership in rocket engine development at a Sept. 17 event in Washington, a source said Sept. 16.The announcement will be made at the National Press Club by Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon.com and Blue Origin, and ULA Chief Executive Tony Bruno, the source said. The companies announced late in the afternoon of Sept. 16 that Bezos and Bruno would be making an unspecified joint announcement at 12:30 p.m. local time.The source, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said the announcement would position ULA to develop an engine with Blue Origin to potentially replace the Russian-made RD-180, which currently powers ULA's workhorse Atlas 5 rocket but faces an uncertain future as tensions with Russia rise. The move would automatically ins ert a second dynamic personality from the dot-com world into the national security launch debate. Bezos would effectively join ULA's side in a fierce battle against Elon Musk's Space Exploration Technologies Corp., which has been fighting for a share of Pentagon business with a rocket dubbed the Falcon 9. News of a ULA-Blue Origin propulsion partnership follows a report in the Wall Street Journal that Blue Origin is part of Boeing's bid to launch crew to the international space station. NASA is expected to announce the winners of its commercial crew competition the afternoon of Sept. 16. Boeing, one of at least three companies bidding for NASA's Commercial Crew Transportation Capability contracts, has proposed launching its CST-100 capsule atop a ULA Atlas 5 rocket.ULA has been searching for a new engine after increased pressure from lawmakers and Air Force officials about the RD-180 engine, built by NPO Energomash of Russia and sold to ULA by RD-Amross, a joint venture between Energomash and United Technologies Corp.Dmitry Rogozin, the deputy prime minister of Russia, who oversees the country's space sector, has threatened to ban the sale of the engines to the United States for military use, although Air Force and ULA officials have seen no signs of a ban.Blue Origin, the Kent, Washington, firm bankrolled by Bezos, has told industry and government officials privately that the Air Force should consider a liquid-oxygen/methane engine.In June, Michael Gass, the former ULA chief executive, announced it had signed "multiple" contracts with unidentified companies to study potential replacements for the RD-180, and hopes to sele ct a single concept for development this year. Among those companies, sources have said, is Aerojet Rocketdyne. The Sacramento, California-based company is the dominant U.S. supplier of large liquid-fueled rocket engines.The selected companies were asked to study technical feasibility of hydrocarbon-fueled engine concepts, and lay out schedules along with cost estimates and technical risks, Gass said.Aerojet Rocketdyne has been pushing a kerosene-fueled, 500,000-pound-thrust concept dubbed AR-1, which the company says could be fully developed in four years for less than $1 billion.
ЦитатаULA To Invest in Blue Origin Engine as RD-180 Replacement for Atlas 5 By Warren Ferster | Sep. 17, 2014 ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno and Blue Origin founder Jeff Bezos brief reporters Sept. 17 on a joint effort to develop a replacement for the Atlas 5 rocket's RD-180 main-stage engine. Credit: SpaceNews photo by Brian Berger WASHINGTON -- U.S. government launch services provider United Launch Alliance will pay Blue Origin, the secretive rocket-making venture led by Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos, an unspecified sum to complete development of a new engine that will replace the Russian-made RD-180 that powers the first stage of ULA's Atlas 5 rocket, the companies announced Sept. 17.Blue Origin of Kent, Washington, has been developing the BE-4 for three years, thus giving it a head start against other prospective RD-180 replacements, ULA Chief Executive Tory Bruno said at a press conference here. Fueled by liquefied natural gas, the new engine will be relatively inexpensive and could be ready to start flying in four years, he said. Скрытый текст: Bruno said developing a new engine typically takes seven to 10 years and costs $1 billion.Bezos said during the press conference that the BE-4, which will generate about 550,000 pounds of thrust, is based on the BE-3 that powers Blue Origin's New Shepard, an experimental suborbital rocket that takes off and lands vertically. In addition to the Atlas 5, the new engine also would be used for a future reusable orbital launcher Blue Origin plans to develop, he said.Two BE-4 engines generating a combined 1.1 million pounds of thrust at sea level would power the Atlas 5 first stage, Bruno said. The current Atlas 5 first stage is powered by a single RD-180 generating close to 1 million pounds of thrust.Neither Bezos nor Bruno would quantify ULA's investment but both described it as significant.The future availability of the RD-180 has been in question since early this year, when Russia's annexation of Crimea led to Western sanctions that in turn prompted Russian officials to threaten a ban on exports of the engine for U.S. military use. Although RD-180 deliveries have continued, officials with ULA and its primary customer, the U.S. government, have been developing contingency plans in case of a cutoff.The Atlas 5 is used, along with ULA's Delta 4, to launch most U.S. government satellites, including virtually all national security missions. The Atlas 5 also will be used to launch the CST-100 spacecraft being developed by Houston-based Boeing Space Exploration, one of two NASA-funded capsules that will be used to ferry crews to and from the international space station starting as early as 2017.Blue Origin is a partner on the CST-100, Bezos said, declining to provide specifics.In June, ULA announced that it had signed contracts with multiple unspecified companies to study alternatives to the RD-180. The company, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture, declined to identify any of the contract recipients but said a first launch of the new engine was targeted for 2019.Bruno said the BE-4 came out as the winner in that competition.Among the other study contract recipients was Aerojet Rocketdyne of Sacramento, California, which has been touting a liquid-oxygen/kerosene-fueled engine dubbed the AR-1 as an RD-180 replacement. Officials with Aerojet Rocketdyne, the largest and most experienced U.S. manufacturer of liquid-fueled rocket engines, said the AR-1 will be capable of generating 500,000 pounds of thrust and could be ready to fly by 2019 for an investment of less than $1 billion.Congress, meanwhile, has proposed spending as much as $220 million next year to begin work on a new engine.The ULA-Blue Origin announcement would appear to cast a cloud over Aerojet Rocketdyne's AR-1 plans.Aerojet Rocketdyne spokesman Glenn Mahone said the company is aware of the announcement but remains committed to meeting the future propulsion needs of the nation."To demonstrate this commitment, Aerojet Rocketdyne announced Sept. 16 the establishment of our advanced hydrocarbon propulsion development office in Huntsville, Alabama," Mahone said. "Rapid development and certification of Aerojet's AR-1 and all U.S. designed, developed and produced advanced hydrocarbon engines manufactured to power America's current and future national security launch vehicles is a key focus of the new Huntsville office."The AR-1 will provide both our government and commercial customers an affordable, world-class innovative engine as well as the reliability which is synonymous with Aerojet Rocketdye propulsion systems."Bruno and Bezos said that should the U.S. government choose to help fund development of the BE-4, such assistance would be welcome.Bruno said that ULA's decision to invest in a new engine was driven in part by the uncertainty surrounding the RD-180 but more by what he sees as a need for a modern, U.S.-built rocket main engine.The BE-4 will be designed and built entirely in the United States using the latest techniques, including advanced computerized simulation and additive manufacturing, Bezos said. The result will be a high-performance engine that is developed quickly and at a relatively low cost, he said.The reason for Blue Origin's choice of liquefied natural gas over kerosene as the engine's propellant was driven by cost and reusability considerations, Bezos said. Liquefied natural gas, which is similar to methane, is cheaper than rocket-grade kerosene and leaves less burn residue, making the engine easier to refurbish and reuse, he said. Follow Warren on Twitter: @Ferster_SN
ЦитатаПетр Зайцев пишет: Вот фото масштабной модели BE-4 с сегодняшней презентации с Юлой: https://twitter.com/ulalaunch/status/512295387106131969
Цитата(Reuters) - For months, a powerful U.S. senator has been pushing for details of a murky deal under which a Russian manufacturer supplies the rocket engines used to launch America's spy satellites into space.At issue: how much the U.S. Air Force pays for the engines, how much the Russians receive, and whether members of the elite in President Vladimir Putin's Russia are secretly profiting by inflating the price.Now, documents uncovered by Reuters provide some answers. A tiny Florida-based company, acting as a middleman in the deal, is marking up the price by millions of dollars per engine.That five-person company, RD Amross, is a joint venture of Russian engine maker NPO Energomash and a U.S. partner, aerospace giant United Technologies. According to internal company documents that lay out the contract, Amross stands to collect $93 million in cost mark-ups under its current multi-year deal to supply the RD-180 rocket engine.Those charges are being added to the program despite a 2011 Pentagon audit that contested a similar, earlier contract with Amross. That deal would have allowed Amross to receive about $80 million in "profit" mark-ups and overhead expenses on RD-180 engines, government documents show.
ЦитатаXCOR Aerospace today announced it has completed the latest test series for the liquid hydrogen engine it is developing for United Launch Alliance (ULA). This is an important milestone in the long-running LH2 (liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen) program. It is also a step toward running the engine in a fully closed cycle mode. In its most recent milestone, XCOR successfully performed hot fire testing of the XR-5H25 engine's regeneratively cooled thrust chamber, with both liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen propellants supplied in pump-fed mode, using XCOR's proprietary piston pump technology."This test marks the first time liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen have been supplied to a rocket engine with a piston pump," says XCOR Chief Executive Officer Jeff Greason. "It is also the first time an American LH2 engine of this size has successfully fired liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen together in pump-fed mode. We are happy to be making solid progress on the engines. This will also bring us to a new phase in our plans for orbital flight." "ULA has an ongoing effort to develop rocket engines for our next generation upper stage, and we are thrilled to see that progress continuing with XCOR," added ULA Vice President George Sowers.Upcoming test series will fully integrate the nozzle with the engine and piston pumps. Fully closed cycle testing will follow soon afterwards and will complete the sub-scale demonstration engine program.The XR-5H25 engines are being developed under contract to ULA as potential successors to the Delta and Atlas series upper stage engines currently used. These engines will also help power orbital launches.