Холивар Raptor vs РД0164, Мюллер vs Рачук

[Salo]

silentpom пишет:

Leonar пишет:
а рд180мс с восстановительным газом в тна?

все замкнутые керосинки с кислым

РД-180МС метановый.

[Grus]

Salo пишет:
На наклонение МКС и того меньше - 9,7т.

Не "на наклонение", оно не причем, а к МКС. Дело в проектных запасах, ну и требованиях НАСА, которые выданы не одним SpaceX. Потому-то Falcon с Dragon участвует в отладке возвращения ступени.

[Salo]

Grus пишет:
Не "на наклонение", оно не причем, а к МКС.

Это конечно кардинально всё меняет! Можете 300 кг накинуть.

Grus пишет:
 Дело в проектных запасах, ну и требованиях НАСА, которые выданы не одним SpaceX. Потому-то Falcon с Dragon участвует в отладке возвращения ступени.

А при чём тут SpaceX? Приведена ПН Вулкана.  

[Grus]

Salo пишет: А при чём тут SpaceX? Приведена ПН Вулкана.  

Тогда я не понял контекст, простите.

[silentpom]

Salo пишет:
РД-180МС метановый.

не заметил буквы мс, простите

[Salo]

https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/687395498848817153

Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  
Air Force awards SpaceX contract worth as much as $122M to develop its Raptor engine as part of RD-180 replacement program.
14:07 - 13 янв. 2016 г.  

[Salo]

https://twitter.com/Gruss_SN/status/687400306540457984

Mike Gruss ‏@Gruss_SN  
@Gruss_SN Correction: Total potential government investment: $61M. Total potential SpaceX investment: $122M.
  14:26 - 13 янв. 2016 г.

[Salo]

http://spacenews.com/orbital-atk-spacex-win-air-force-propulsion-contracts/

SpaceX, meanwhile, will get at least $33.6 million, and perhaps as much as $61 million, to continue development of its methane-fueled Raptor engine. SpaceX is expected to match the Air Force's investment in Raptor with at least $67 million, and as much as $123 million, according to the Air Force contract announcement.

[Salo]

http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123466879

Air Force Awards Two Rocket Propulsion System Prototype OTAs

 Posted 1/13/2016 Updated 1/13/2016
 
1/13/2016 - LOS ANGELES AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Today the Space and Missile Systems Center awarded the first two Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs) for shared public-private investments in Rocket Propulsion System (RPS) prototypes to SpaceX for development testing of the Raptor upper stage engine ...

Та - да - да - дам!

[Salo]

А вот как это виделось в июне 2015:
http://docs.house.gov/meetings/AS/AS29/20150626/103668/HHRG-114-AS29-Wstate-ThornburgJ-20150626.pdf

Raptor

Leveraging our design, fabrication, and testing experience on the Merlin engines, SpaceX has already begun internally-funded development and testing on our next-generation Raptor engine. Raptor is a reusable LOX/methane staged-combustion engine designed for high performance, cost effectiveness, and long life in high production volume. The engine utilizes a full flow staged combustion cycle, promising the highest performance possible for a methane rocket engine, while also delivering long life through new SpaceX technologies and more benign turbine environments. SpaceX is currently testing key Raptor components at a test facility within NASA's Stennis Space Center in Mississippi and at our SpaceX McGregor, TX test facility.
Raptor represents a fundamental advancement in propulsion technology. This staged-combustion system will not only be extremely powerful, but it will also be extremely efficient and reliable. It will achieve commercial viability through notable risk- and cost-reducing improvements in metallurgy and producibility, as well as revolutionary technologies enabling long term reusability. All of these features are crucial in ensuring affordable assured access to space for the United States. Rather than turning to decades-old technology developed to support last-generation launch systems, Raptor will advance the state-of-the-art and ensure the US remains the global leader in rocket propulsion technology.
Raptor could have significant applications for national security space launch, all while significantly advancing U.S. industrial capability and technology with respect to liquid rocket engines. With a highly scalable engine cycle, Raptor's "light and tight" design is built for operational functionality, cost efficiency and long life in high production volume, which makes it ideal for NSS needs. The engine utilizes a closed cycle with the objective of achieving the highest performance possible for a methane rocket engine while also delivering extended reusability through new SpaceX technologies and more benign turbine environments. Key engine components and large structures have been additively manufactured, and Raptor will be the first large liquid engine in the world constructed largely with printed parts.
Raptor directly contributes to the rapid advancement of oxygen-rich and full-flow staged combustion and additive manufacturing technologies for the United States—enhancing U.S. industrial capability. Further, the engine enhances state-of-the-art, high-performing EELV-class propulsive capabilities for future flight engine systems to support commercial and NSS applications in accordance with Fiscal Year 2015 National Defense Authorization Act (FY15 NDAA), Section 1604. The flexibility of the Raptor design enables the technology to be applied to existing EELV-certified launch vehicles. Importantly, SpaceX capability to support all NSS missions is independent of Raptor development; Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy together exceed the DOD's requirements and will not require external development funds related to this engine. Beyond the existing and imminent Falcon family of launch vehicles, the Raptor engine provides great promise for additional capability that could be relevant to the national security space community and advance the U.S. industrial base.

[Димитър]

Salo пишет:
http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123466879

Air Force Awards Two Rocket Propulsion System Prototype OTAs

 Posted 1/13/2016 Updated 1/13/2016
 
1/13/2016 - LOS ANGELES AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Today the Space and Missile Systems Center awarded the first two Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs) for shared public-private investments in Rocket Propulsion System (RPS) prototypes to SpaceX for development testing of the Raptor upper stage engine ...

Та - да - да - дам!

 :-) Мне тоже хочется, но скорее всего опечатка.

[Salo]

Чёт я сомневаюсь, уж слишком источник серьёзный.

[Seerndv]

https://twitter.com/blueorigin
Blue Origin ‏@blueorigin  2 ч.2 часа назад  
BE-4 forgings, assemble! Full engine testing later this year to support @ulalaunch Vulcan 1st flight in 2019.

- итого, Безос будет первым в гандикапе?

[Искандер]

Salo пишет:
http://www.losangeles.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123466879

Air Force Awards Two Rocket Propulsion System Prototype OTAs

 Posted 1/13/2016 Updated 1/13/2016
 
1/13/2016 - LOS ANGELES AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. -- Today the Space and Missile Systems Center awarded the first two Other Transaction Agreements (OTAs) for shared public-private investments in Rocket Propulsion System (RPS) prototypes to SpaceX for development testing of the Raptor upper stage engine ...

Та - да - да - дам!

Меня больше удивила сумма выделенная Orbital для допиливания двигателя BE-3...
Отдали бы Безосу, выглядело бы как-то логичней.

Ну, не факт... Там тоже бардачёк бывает на мелких попилах, могли факты попутать. Но если да, то для модернизации FH, первая версия Raptor будет пожалуй (+-)100т тяги в вакууме, или скажем максимум 115т :-). Потому как ранее заявленные 230т для верхней ступени на ГПО/ГСО многовато будет. Такой себе "макетик".

[Искандер]

Seerndv пишет:

https://twitter.com/blueorigin
 Blue Origin ‏@ blueorigin 2 ч.2 часа назад
BE-4 forgings, assemble! Full engine testing later this year to support @ ulalaunch Vulcan 1st flight in 2019.

 

- итого, Безос будет первым в гандикапе?

Он идет впереди на ~2-3 года, а будет ли он первым.. будем посмотреть! Ему навязали под Vulcan даже производство расширить. Для собственных же нужд, при учете планируемой многоразовости, достаточен темп на уровне опытного производства.

[Seerndv]

Искандер пишет:

Seerndv пишет:

https://twitter.com/blueorigin
 Blue Origin ‏@ blueorigin 2 ч.2 часа назад
BE-4 forgings, assemble! Full engine testing later this year to support @ ulalaunch Vulcan 1st flight in 2019.

 

- итого, Безос будет первым в гандикапе?

Он идет впереди на ~2-3 года, а будет ли он первым.. будем посмотреть! Ему навязали под Vulcan даже производство расширить. Для собственных же нужд, при учете планируемой многоразовости, достаточен темп на уровне опытного производства.

- если ещё и денег дадут - будет точно первый.
У нас "зло...чие маленькие любители Рд-170" ходу метану не дадут  :evil:

[Apollo13]

Seerndv пишет:

Искандер пишет:

Seerndv пишет:

https://twitter.com/blueorigin
 Blue Origin ‏@ blueorigin 2 ч.2 часа назад
BE-4 forgings, assemble! Full engine testing later this year to support @ ulalaunch Vulcan 1st flight in 2019.

 

- итого, Безос будет первым в гандикапе?

Он идет впереди на ~2-3 года, а будет ли он первым.. будем посмотреть! Ему навязали под Vulcan даже производство расширить. Для собственных же нужд, при учете планируемой многоразовости, достаточен темп на уровне опытного производства.

- если ещё и денег дадут - будет точно первый.
У нас "зло...чие маленькие любители Рд-170" ходу метану не дадут  :evil:

http://spacenews.com/blue-origin-reaches-milestone-in-be-4-engine-development/

Bezos also noted that, unlike the AR-1 or other concepts, Blue Origin was not seeking funding from the U.S. Air Force to help pay for development of the BE-4. "The most unique feature of the BE-4 engine is that it's fully funded," he said. "It's not something you see in rocket engine programs very often."

"Главное отличие be-4 в том что он полностью профинансирован."

[Искандер]

У Безоса и своих средств хватает, но ULA ему в радужных надеждах насыпала достаточно и на создание и на производство.
Схема ВЕ-4 заметно проще чем у Raptor, будем надеяться, что больших глюков не будет.

[silentpom]

бабло побеждает зло

[Salo]

Scott M ‏@Restrantek  
#nscfl #BE4 flight qualified in 2017. US made rocket engine. Grown into an engine supplier, #Vulcan #ULA Building @blueorigin here in FL @
  9:42 - 9 февр. 2016 г.