Международная лунная посещаемая платформа

Автор Salo, 27.06.2016 14:18:40

« назад - далее »

ohjjj и 1 гость просматривают эту тему.

Arzach

Цитата: triage от 24.03.2026 19:18:39Маску светили запуски моделей и снабжение на уже летающей ракете и деньги кажется выделены.
На начальном этапе за Dragon XL ему светило немного - около 150 млн $ и часть уже выплачена. Но Айзекман грозился перепрофилировать выделенные ресурсы, так что может ещё пригодится для чего-нибудь.

Arzach

Интересная деталь - оказывается модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom, а использовать в качестве основы для экспериментального ядерного буксира Space Reactor-1 Freedom, который должен будет доставить к Марсу ПН Skyfall с тремя вертолётами наподобие Ingenuity.

Rocinante

Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27модуль PPE

Изначально проектировался для Asteroid Redirect Mission, затем перепрофилировали на Lunar Gateway, теперь на Марс полетит
Кнопка "ВКЛ." просто давала сигнал к запуску с Марса. Кнопка "ВЫКЛ." вообще ни к чему не была подсоединена. Ее поставили на пульте по настоянию марсианских психологов, которые утверждали, что человек всегда чувствует себя спокойнее, имея дело с машинами, которые можно выключить

Paleopulo

Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom
А были такие проекты?

Ed Sch

Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27Интересная деталь - оказывается модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom, а использовать в качестве основы для экспериментального ядерного буксира Space Reactor-1 Freedom, который должен будет доставить к Марсу ПН Skyfall с тремя вертолётами наподобие Ingenuity.

Определённый для ядерного буксира срок "конец 2028 года" как бы намекает, что Трампу к выходу на пенсию ещё и медаль за покорение Марса хочется. Ну хоть маленькую...

Diy

Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27Интересная деталь - оказывается модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom, а использовать в качестве основы для экспериментального ядерного буксира Space Reactor-1 Freedom, который должен будет доставить к Марсу ПН Skyfall с тремя вертолётами наподобие Ingenuity.
Наконец, насмотревшись на Маска, все приходят в чувство на чем нужно лететь на Марс.
«Кто виноват, что им светят два солнца?..»

Arzach

Цитата: Paleopulo от 25.03.2026 08:10:07
Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom
А были такие проекты?
Не знаю, как насчёт конкретных проектов, но на прошлогодней волне отмены всего и вся с приходом Трампа ходили разговоры о том, как использовать заложенные, но не нужные более модули Гейтвея.

Paleopulo

Цитата: Ed Sch от 25.03.2026 08:18:32
Цитата: Arzach от 24.03.2026 20:57:27Интересная деталь - оказывается модуль PPE от Lunar Gateway предполагается приспособить не для станции Axiom, а использовать в качестве основы для экспериментального ядерного буксира Space Reactor-1 Freedom, который должен будет доставить к Марсу ПН Skyfall с тремя вертолётами наподобие Ingenuity.

Определённый для ядерного буксира срок "конец 2028 года" как бы намекает, что Трампу к выходу на пенсию ещё и медаль за покорение Марса хочется. Ну хоть маленькую...
Может намекнуть руководству, чтобы к следующей встрече (саммиту) подготовить указ о награждении товарища Трампа медалью "За заслуги в освоении космоса"? Нам жто ничего не стоит, а дедушке будет приятно. 

anik

Даже не знаю, куда этот трындец приткнуть ;D

https://arstechnica.com/space/2026/04/well-this-is-embarrassing-the-lunar-gateways-primary-modules-are-corroded/

https://europeanspaceflight.com/esa-sheds-light-on-nasa-administrators-claims-on-gateway-modules/

ЦитироватьDuring a hearing before the US House Science Committee on 22 April, Administrator Isaacman testified on the status of elements of NASA's Gateway space station, stating, "The only two habitable volumes that were delivered both were corroded." He added that this issue would have delayed the programme "beyond 2030." While Isaacman did not specify which modules he was referring to, commentary surrounding the Administrator's testimony suggested he was referring to the Habitation and Logistics Outpost (HALO) and the International Habitation Module (I-HAB).
...
In response to questions from European Spaceflight, ESA confirmed that the HALO module, which had been delivered to Northrop Grumman in April 2025 for final outfitting before being handed over to NASA, had arrived with signs of corrosion. While the agency confirmed that I-HAB had a similar but less severe issue, it clarified that the module had not yet been shipped to NASA.
"Following the identification of corrosion on HALO, a comprehensive investigation was promptly initiated," explained an ESA spokesperson. "Preliminary findings indicate that the issue likely results from a combination of factors, including aspects of the forging process, surface treatment, and material properties. A dedicated tiger team was established for I-Hab under the guidance of ESA to solve this issue. Based on the investigation and available data, the corrosion issue was understood to be technically manageable and did not constitute a showstopper for I-Hab, which was, in any case, in better condition than HALO from a corrosion point of view."
In addition to clarifying the status of the HALO and I-HAB modules, the agency said these elements were far from the only factors contributing to delays in the station's development.
"Based on programme information shared by NASA, other elements provided by the US supply chain, such as the life support system and the thermal control pump, were also experiencing notable delays and technical complexity," the ESA spokesperson said.

Старый

Цитата: anik от 25.04.2026 12:10:08Даже не знаю, куда этот трындец приткнуть ;D
О! Эрик Бергер!
Тю. Подчистят наждачкой, подшпаклюют, дадут красивое итальянское название "Джарджавелла" и запустят. 
1. Ангара - единственная в мире новая РН которая хуже старой (с) Старый Ламер
2. Назначение Роскосмоса - не летать в космос а выкачивать из бюджета деньги
3. У Маска ракета длиннее и толще чем у Роскосмоса
4. Чем мрачнее реальность тем ярче бред (с) Старый Ламер

Paleopulo

Точно определение. Трындец как он есть.

triage

#2791
т.к. было странно что Исаакман заявил
ЦитироватьThe only two habitable volumes that were delivered both were corroded.
хотя в США из Италии был получен только один модуль, а названия двух это все заявления Бергера

Из доступного без ВПН на фразу Исаакмана
Цитироватьhttps://web.archive.org/web/20260425091740/https://arstechnica.com/space/2026/04/well-this-is-embarrassing-the-lunar-gateways-primary-modules-are-corroded/
Спойлер
...
During testimony before the US House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, Isaacman faced questions about NASA's budget. As House members often do, Rep. Suhas Subramanyam, D-Virginia, asked about parochial matters. His district includes major elements of Northrop Grumman, the primary contractor for the HALO module. "You've also canceled an order for the Habitation and Logistics Outpost," Subramanyam said. "Do you know what will happen to that large investment that was made?"

Since the demise of Gateway, Northrop has been pushing NASA to re-purpose the HALO module for use on the lunar surface as part of the space agency's Moon base.
"I appreciate the contributions and look forward to working with them on how we could potentially repurpose hardware to surface applications," Isaacman replied. But he did not stop there. He then publicly confirmed rumors (reported last month by Ars
Спойлер
https://web.archive.org/web/20260406085503/https://arstechnica.com/space/2026/03/what-happens-next-with-nasas-plan-to-replace-the-iss-source-it-could-get-ugly/
Eric Berger – 27 мар. 2026 г.
...
Some points to consider:

Building space station modules is really hard. Despite billions of dollars and efforts by NASA and the European Space Agency to build new deep space station modules—the HALO and iHAB elements of the now-shelved Lunar Gateway—have both faced significant delays. There are rumors that both modules are actually corroded, perhaps beyond repair. Inevitably, NASA expects private providers to face similar delays.
...
[свернуть]
) that there is corrosion in both the HALO and I-HAB modules of the Gateway.
[свернуть]
"The only two habitable volumes that were delivered—both were corroded," Isaacman said. "And that's unfortunate because it would have delayed, probably beyond 2030, the application of Gateway."
Спойлер
How could both a module being provided by Northrop Grumman, a major US defense contractor, and I-HAB from Europe be corroded? It seems like a fantastic claim. However, half a dozen sources who worked on or near the Lunar Gateway program confirmed to Ars that the corrosion Isaacman mentioned was real and serious.
[свернуть]
In a statement, Northrop confirmed the issue as well. "Using NASA-approved processes, Northrop Grumman is completing repairs to HALO after a manufacturing irregularity," a company spokesperson told Ars. "We expect to complete repairs by the end of the third quarter. HALO can still be repurposed for any mission, and it's the most mature technology to support a deep space or lunar habitat."
Спойлер
By referring to a "manufacturing irregularity," Northrop answered the central mystery here: how corrosion could appear in both modules. This is because a French-Italian space and defense company, Thales Alenia Space, built the primary structure of HALO for Northrop Grumman. The module was delivered from Italy to the United States about a year ago.
...
The I-HAB module remains under construction and has not yet been delivered to NASA. Its fate remains unclear as European space officials contemplate their participation in the Moon base initiative.
[свернуть]
After publication of this story on Friday, Axiom Space confirmed that it has also experienced corrosion issues. In a statement, the company said: "Axiom Space has experienced a similar phenomenon with the first module; we are leveraging the expertise of NASA and Thales Alenia Space to address the issue. Module 1 is on track to launch in 2028."
про Axiom писали в комментарии к статье

Цитироватьhttps://starlust.org/nasa-funding-battle-intensifies-as-jared-isaacman-faces-congress-over-23-budget-cuts/
NASA funding battle intensifies as Jared Isaacman faces Congress over 23% budget cuts
Isaacman defends Trump over NASA cuts, opens up on Gateway cancellation, and talks post-ISS plans.
Спойлер
NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman testified before members of the House Science, Space, and Technology Committee on the White House's proposal to cut the agency's budget. The committee clearly showed resistance against the Trump administration's intention to cut NASA's budget by 23% in FY2027, which would bring down funding to $18.6 billion....

.@NASAAdmin: "We are absolutely riding a high at this moment. The nation and the world paused as 4 brave astronauts on Artemis II to flew around the moon. NASA made the headlines we were supposed to make. We showed the world the moon again and we showed humanity earth again."
...
At the hearing, the members scrutinized issues like the budget cuts, cancellations of programs, and the general NASA strategy for the long run. The Trump-appointed Administrator seemingly defended the cuts, reiterating that NASA is not abandoning its flagship science missions like the Nancy Grace Roman Space Telescope and the Dragonfly mission to Saturn's moon Titan. He also addressed the decision to "pause" the Lunar Gateway and spoke about some serious hardware concerns. "The only two habitable volumes that were delivered both were corroded," said Isaacman, referring to the affected HALO and I-HAB modules. "And that's unfortunate because it would have delayed, probably beyond 2030, the application of Gateway."
...
[свернуть]

Цитироватьhttps://baynews9.com/fl/tampa/politics/2026/04/22/isaacman-testifies-on-president-s-nasa-budget-request
Isaacman testifies on President Trump's NASA budget request
WASHINGTON, D.C. — On Capitol Hill, House Democrats and Republicans pushed back on President Donald Trump's budget request for NASA, seeking a 23% cut to the agency. 
...
NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman largely stood by the president's plan.
Спойлер
"We cannot establish programs that are designed to be too big to fail, but at the same time too costly to succeed. Nor should it be throwing more money at the problem, but rather fixing the problems and concentrating resources on the mission and delivering outcomes," Isaacman said.
...
Isaacman also shared during the hearing that the paused Lunar Gateway station that was originally included in the Artemis program plans had issues. The two habitable volumes that were delivered to NASA were corroded.

"And that's unfortunate because it would have delayed, probably beyond 2030, the application of Gateway," he said.
...
[свернуть]

Антикосмит

Цитата: Paleopulo от 25.04.2026 12:32:11Точно определение. Трындец как он есть.
А наши щелкоперы ни гу-гу про ржавую итальянскую американскую бочку.
Ты еще не встретил инопланетян, а они уже обвели тебя вокруг пальца (с) Питер Уоттс

Rocinante



Спойлер
ЦитироватьПомните проект орбитальной станции Gateway? Он представлял собой что-то вроде МКС на минималках, только не на околоземной, а на окололунной орбите. Проект публично анонсировали в 2017 году. Как часто бывает, дата запуска станции с тех пор неоднократно менялась. А в этом году её и вовсе «заморозили» — а если переводить с бюрократического, закрыли.

Это поставило закономерный вопрос о том, что делать с тем, что уже было построено для станции — в частности, с корпусами жилых модулей HALO и I-HAB. В теории, их можно было бы использовать для какого-то другого проекта. Да вот только есть небольшой нюанс: как оказалось, оба модуля... подверглись коррозии.

Стоит сказать, что такие слухи ходили уже некоторое время, но поскольку всё это звучало как какая-то плохая шутка, то в подобное верилось с трудом. Однако на недавних слушаниях в Конгрессе глава NASA Джаред Айзекман всё подтвердил. По его словам, из-за коррозии Gateway не удалось бы запустить раньше 2030-х.

По всей видимости, крайней является франко-итальянская компания Thales Alenia Space. Она построила корпуса для обоих модулей: HALO по контракту Northrop Grumman, а I-HAB по контракту ESA. В прошлом году HALO был транспортирован в США. Специалисты Northrop Grumman должны были дооснастить его и затем передать NASA. На этом этапе всё и вскрылось.

Как такое стало возможным — не очень понятно. Пока что ESA опубликовало лишь общее сообщение, согласно которому «проблема является результатом совокупности факторов, включая особенности процесса ковки, обработки поверхности и свойства материалов».

Также в ESA сообщили, что I-HAB находится в лучшем состоянии, чем HALO, и проблема с его коррозией технически решаема. В свою очередь, в Northrop Grumman вроде как тоже собираются отремонтировать HALO. Правда, что с ним будет дальше, непонятно. При этом европейцы постарались снять с себя часть ответственности, заявив, что NASA также запаздывала с поставкой многих компонентов станции. Следовательно, коррозия не была решающим фактором заморозки Gateway. И, хотя действительно, NASA тоже не демонстрировала чудес скорости в этом проекте, всё же это слишком громкий случай по меркам индустрии, который ставит много закономерных вопросов, на которые пока нет внятных ответов.
[свернуть]
Кнопка "ВКЛ." просто давала сигнал к запуску с Марса. Кнопка "ВЫКЛ." вообще ни к чему не была подсоединена. Ее поставили на пульте по настоянию марсианских психологов, которые утверждали, что человек всегда чувствует себя спокойнее, имея дело с машинами, которые можно выключить

anik

#2794
Тут в их твиттерах разгораются нешуточные страсти...

Эндрю Парсонсон:

ЦитироватьThales Alenia Space has told me that they'll share a statement early next week. I personally think this delay is a catastrophic PR failure, but I am still interested in what they have to say. I also think that while NASA Administrator Isaacman was clearly right on the facts, it was the wrong form and forum for that information, and his choice not to share the corrective measures being implemented is baffling.

Джаред Айзекман:

ЦитироватьRespectfully, I am not sure how it was the "wrong forum." I was testifying under oath before the United States Congress. I was asked a question about the status of the Gateway hardware, and I gave an honest answer and shared our intent to work with industry and partners to pivot, as appropriate, toward surface applications. It might be worth going back to the tapes if anything was unclear.

I do think it is a bit interesting that the goalposts have moved, maybe not necessarily from you, but my initial description of the problem was challenged as 'outright false' or worse, and now it is being acknowledged as factually correct, with the concern shifting to whether I should have referenced a "repair plan," when I am not sure there is a deterministic approach to repair, nor that one is even warranted at this point.

President Trump's National Space Policy calls for America to return to the Moon and establish an enduring presence on the Moon (not above it), to build a Moon Base! And I have no doubt, based on the expected contributions of our many great international partners, that NASA astronauts and our allies will be standing shoulder to shoulder on the surface of the Moon in the years ahead.

Эндрю Парсонсон:

ЦитироватьThere was no goal-post shifting on my part. @SciGuySpace had already alluded to the issue in prior reporting, so I was fairly certain there was truth to what you had said. You're welcome to review my writings to confirm that.

Respectfully, Administrator Isaacman, your answer was, at best, incomplete. You failed to add that work that has been done to identify the cause and what could be done moving forward. You were also loose in your interpretation of "delivered," and you implied that this, and this alone, would have been the reason Gateway would be delayed when, by all accounts, it was only one of many elements falling behind schedule.

You talk about wanting to work with international partners on a Moon base, an endeavour that will require massive financial contributions from them. Yet, when the situation called for some courtesy for those partners, you gave ESA and Thales Alenia Space no warning that you were about to bring the world's media down on their heads. I genuinely don't understand how that's part of building partnerships.

You may very well be championing the Trump administration's policy, as is your mandate. But from my perspective, again and again, you have done so at your partners' expense. And to be honest, I expected more from you.

Запасаемся попкорном!

anik

https://arstechnica.com/space/2026/04/gateway-manufacturer-finally-acknowledges-issue-fails-to-mention-corrosion/

ЦитироватьOur teams are working hand in hand with our longstanding customer Northrop Grumman to ensure that the HALO module fully meets the mission's requirements, using NASA-approved processes. A well-known metallurgical behavior was found at the surface of the module, which will be fixed by the end of the third quarter of 2026. As for Lunar I-HAB, which is still in our facilities to date, we are also teaming up with ESA to fix soon the same related issue.
Our company, together with its customers and partners, is used to face and solve this kind of situations, in this very-challenging space environment. As an example, a metallurgical behavior of this kind occurred decades ago during the manufacturing of elements for the International Space Station (ISS). The ISS' pressurized modules have proved to be highly performant, and continue to operate reliably, exceeding their original expected lifespan. With nearly 50% of the ISS' pressurized volume built by our company still functioning after 25 years, we leverage this experience to address the current situation with agility, expertise and full technical control.
At this time, further comments would be premature. For more information, please refer to Northrop Grumman for HALO and ESA for Lunar I-HAB.

У ЕКА как и у SpaceX для взрыва ступени ракеты-носителя (RUD) появился новый термин для коррозии.

Paleopulo

Цитата: anik от Сегодня в 17:55:26У ЕКА как и у SpaceX для взрыва ступени ракеты-носителя (RUD) появился новый термин для коррозии.
Скорее все же у Thales Alenia Space, заявление-то их.

triage

Цитата: Paleopulo от Сегодня в 18:35:40
Цитата: anik от Сегодня в 17:55:26У ЕКА как и у SpaceX для взрыва ступени ракеты-носителя (RUD) появился новый термин для коррозии.
Скорее все же у Thales Alenia Space, заявление-то их.
просто в заголовке было ЕКА
Цитироватьhttps://europeanspaceflight.com/esa-sheds-light-on-nasa-administrators-claims-on-gateway-modules/
ESA Sheds Light on NASA Administrator's Claims on Gateway Modules
...
In response to questions from European Spaceflight, ESA confirmed that the HALO module, which had been delivered to Northrop Grumman in April 2025 for final outfitting before being handed over to NASA, had arrived with signs of corrosion. While the agency confirmed that I-HAB had a similar but less severe issue, it clarified that the module had not yet been shipped to NASA.
Спойлер
"Following the identification of corrosion on HALO, a comprehensive investigation was promptly initiated," explained an ESA spokesperson. "Preliminary findings indicate that the issue likely results from a combination of factors, including aspects of the forging process, surface treatment, and material properties. A dedicated tiger team was established for I-Hab under the guidance of ESA to solve this issue. Based on the investigation and available data, the corrosion issue was understood to be technically manageable and did not constitute a showstopper for I-Hab, which was, in any case, in better condition than HALO from a corrosion point of view."

In addition to clarifying the status of the HALO and I-HAB modules, the agency said these elements were far from the only factors contributing to delays in the station's development.

"Based on programme information shared by NASA, other elements provided by the US supply chain, such as the life support system and the thermal control pump, were also experiencing notable delays and technical complexity," the ESA spokesperson said
[свернуть]

In its response, Thales Alenia Space explained that repairs to both modules were ongoing.

Спойлер
"Our teams are working hand in hand with our longstanding customer Northrop Grumman to ensure that the HALO module fully meets the mission's requirements, using NASA-approved processes," a spokesperson for the company said. "A well-known metallurgical behavior was found at the surface of the module, which will be fixed by the end of the third quarter of 2026. As for Lunar I-HAB, which is still in our facilities to date, we are also teaming up with ESA to fix soon the same related issue."

The company also explained that the issue was not unfamiliar to the company, with a similar "metallurgical behavior" having affected modules of the International Space Station.

"Our company, together with its customers and partners, is used to [facing] and [solving these kinds] of situations, in this very challenging space environment. As an example, a metallurgical behavior of this kind occurred decades ago during the manufacturing of elements for the International Space Station (ISS). The ISS' pressurized modules have proved to be highly performant, and continue to operate reliably, exceeding their original expected lifespan. With nearly 50% of the ISS' pressurized volume built by our company still functioning after 25 years, we leverage this experience to address the current situation with agility, expertise and full technical control."

In his testimony, Administrator Jared Isaacman said that NASA was exploring the potential repurposing of Gateway elements for the agency's planned surface base. It remains unclear whether this includes HALO and I-HAB, and whether efforts to restore these elements of the station will continue
[свернуть]
Update: This article was updated on 27 April to include the statement from Thales Alenia Space.
;)