The Inspiration Mars.

[Старый]

Valerij пишет:

Старый пишет:
А деньги чтоб заплатить за эти ракеты они уже выбрали?

Старый Ламер всех считает за лохов, мол, раз я не могу инвестировать деньги, то и никто не может. Естественно, ламеры и лохи не могут, им только и остается, что выбирать деньги.

Не вижу ответа на вопрос. А как всё хорошо начиналось...

[Ну-и-ну]

А по носителю-то жопа.
 
SLS теоретически будет, но практически его надо изготовить (конкретный экземпляр) и будет он, мягко говоря, малоиспытанный.
 
СпейсИкс исторически срывает сроки и заявленную ПН, так что "надо ждать 2014, когда может быть полетит, а там посмотреть". А времени-то ждать и нет.
 
По Атласу-5 + Дельта-4Х - там дефицита ПН не получится? Тонн в 10-15?

Протоны надо брать, короче.

[Stalky]

Валера, Вы себе такую нарочито противную либерально-правозащитное рыльце на аватарку выбрали зачем?
Троллите потихоньку?

[hlynin]

Ну-и-ну пишет:
Протоны надо брать, короче.  

Вот если бы Тито надеялся на Ангару, я бы решил, что он невменяем.

[Valerij]

Stalky пишет:
Валера, Вы себе такую нарочито противную либерально-правозащитное рыльце на аватарку выбрали зачем?
Троллите потихоньку?

А вы что, уже по портрету мультяшного персонала его политические взгляды угадываете? Гитлеровцы с их "рассовой чистотой" честнее были.

[Salo]

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/msl/130530rad/#.UamQDNiBXTo

Radiation shields, new engines mandatory for Mars
BY STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: May 30, 2013

 A detector on NASA's Curiosity rover has confirmed previous research findings on the hazards of space radiation on the way to Mars, scientists announced Thursday, and future astronauts making the trip will need protection fr om the danger.
 
 [SIZE=-2]Artist's concept of the Mars Science Laboratory approaching Mars. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech[/SIZE]
 
 The Mars rover's radiation-detecting instrument, called RAD, collected data on the mission's eight-month cruise to the red planet in 2011 and 2012, verifying computer models predicting radiation levels on the way to Mars are several hundred times higher than the dose humans receive on Earth.
Nestled deep inside a heat shield and aerodynamic shell - not too different than astronauts inside a space capsule - the rover's detector still picked up particles fr om a harmful flow of radiation fr om the sun and galactic sources.
"This cruise data is critical to the understanding of the impacts of galactic cosmic rays and solar particle events inside a platform similar to the vehicle we're developing for human exploration missions," said Eddie Semones, a spaceflight radiation health officer at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston.
Against a near-steady stream of galactic cosmic rays streaming into the solar system from supernova explosions and other sources across the galaxy, Curiosity encountered five spikes in another type of radiation called solar energetic particles, which blow outward from the sun during solar flares and coronal mass ejections.
Semones said the radiation data from the Mars rover confirmed estimates based on models and information from other missions.
"We found during the cruise that galactic cosmic rays were averaging 1.8 milliSieverts per day throughout," said Cary Zeitlin, principal scientist from the Southwest Research Institute. "That's actually a value that's very much in line with earlier data from Apollo and Skylab."
Scientists measure radiation in units called Sieverts. According to Semones, exposure to 1 Sievert of radiation raises a person's risk of developing fatal cancer in their lifetime by 5 percent.
In six months, Curiosity's RAD instrument detected 330 milliSieverts of cosmic radiation. On the International Space Station, which is clad in polyethylene shielding and flies below Earth's radiation belts, astronauts typically see about 100 milliSieverts in a six-month rotation.
The figures don't include solar energetic particles, which accounted for about 5 percent of the radiation detected by the rover on the cruise to Mars. During periods of elevated solar activity, astronauts could be exposed to more solar radiation, Zeitlin said.
 
 [SIZE=-2]This graphic compares the radiation dose equivalent for several types of experiences, including a calculation for a trip from Earth to Mars based on measurements made by the Radiation Assessment Detector instrument shielded inside NASA's Mars Science Laboratory spacecraft during the flight from Earth to Mars in 2011 and 2012. The vertical scale is logarithmic; each labeled value is 10 times greater than the next lowest one. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/SwRI[/SIZE]
 
 "The radiation environment in deep space is several hundred times more intense than it is on Earth, and that's even inside a shielded spacecraft, such as MSL, wh ere we made our measurements," Zeitlin said.
According to Zeitlin, radiation levels detected by Curiosity - adjusted to gauge their impact on human issues - are equivalent to the dosage received in abdominal CT scans every five or six days.
Over the course of a 500-day Mars mission, Semones said most astronauts would exceed NASA's health standard, which lim its an individual's radiation exposure to levels that would cause no more than a 3 percent increase in the risk of fatal cancer.
"We're looking at that 3 percent standard and its applicability on exploration-type missions," Semones said.
The radiation results from the rover's cruise to Mars are published in Friday's issue of Science.
Curiosity's RAD instrument continues collecting daily measurements since its landing on Mars in August 2012. Scientists are using the data to see what radiation levels astronauts would encounter on the planet's surface on landing missions.
Engineers and scientists will use the rover's radiation measurements in development of spacecraft to carry astronauts beyond low Earth orbit. Semones said the data are applicable to NASA's asteroid capture mission and manned trips to the vicinity of the moon, which are planned to begin in 2021.
"The RAD data will help us to design deep space habitats in which astronauts would live on the way to Mars, and it will help us to improve radiation shielding to protect them from the harmful effects of space radiation," said Chris Moore, deputy director of advanced exploration systems at NASA.
For transient events such as solar storms, which temporarily raise radiation levels, NASA could provide 'storm shelters' to house astronauts and protect against radiation until the threat passes, Moore said.
 
 [SIZE=-2]This artist's concept compares the Mars Science Laboratory cruise stage and heat shield with the Orion spacecraft, which is being developed to carry astronauts into deep space. Credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/JSC[/SIZE]
 
 Astronaut habitats will need more permanent shielding against galactic cosmic rays. Moore said water in the walls of space modules would help blunt radiation, or astronauts could store hydrogen-rich food and supplies around their living quarters as a shield.
But efforts to protect astronauts on trips to Mars will not stop there.
According to NASA, advanced propulsion systems must be developed to make more speedy journeys possible because the type of shielding necessary to protect against cosmic radiation - several meters thick, Semones said - is impractical due to the size and mass lim itations of spacecraft and launch vehicles.
"You need both," Semones said, referring to shielding and advanced propulsion. "You need to get there faster to reduce the impact of galactic cosmic rays, but you also need to have local shielding on-board to eliminate the effects of solar particles."
Moore said NASA is working on solar-electric propulsion, which uses electricity to accelerate ions and generate low, but sustained, thrust, as part of the agency's technology development for deep space exploration, including NASA's proposed initiative to capture and study an asteroid.
"But to get really fast trip times and cut down on the radiation exposure, we would probably need nuclear thermal propulsion," Moore said. "We're working with U.S. Department of Energy to look at various types of fuel elements for these rockets. But it's a long-range technology development activity, and it will probably be many years before that is ready."
According to Moore, nuclear propulsion could cut the one-way transit time from Earth to Mars to about 180 days.

[Salo]

http://cybersecurity.ru/space/175849.html

НАСА: Будущие марсонавты получат ударную дозу радиации
(01:46) 31.05.2013
   
// CyberSecurity.ru // - В НАСА сегодня подтвердили факт, о котором довольно давно догадывались исследователи-теоретики: будущие путешественники на Красную планету получат очень большую дозу космической радиации, которая может оказаться просто несовместимой с жизнью и будет грозить космонавтам серьезными проблемами со здоровьем, в частности обширными раковыми опухолями и нарушением работы многих важных систем жизнедеятельности.

Данные, полученные при помощи Марсохода Curiosity, свидетельствуют о том, что во время своего 8-месячного путешествия с Земли до Марса аппарат уже получил значительный радиационный удар. Если для механического аппарата этот объем не представляет значительной опасности, то для людей такие условия могут оказаться критическими. По прибытии на Марс дозы радиации падают, но и на самой планете фон излучения превышает допустимый для человека. Даже учитывая то обстоятельство, что Марс расположен дальше от Солнца, чем наша планета, здесь нет толстой атмосферы и даже солнечная радиация тут превышает земные показатели.

"Мы выяснили, что астронавты будут поглощать около 1,8 миллизиверта излучения в день во время полета. Общая доза во время полета к Марсу и Земле составит 0,66 зиверта, и вместе с пребыванием на поверхности Марса, может достигнуть одного зиверта. Такое количество радиации близко подходит к лимиту облучения для астронавтов за время их карьеры, а может, и превосходит его", -- заявил Кэри Цэйтлин из Юго-Западного исследовательского института в Сан-Антонио в США.

Цэйтлин и его коллеги пришли к такому выводу, проанализировав данные, собранные прибором RAD на борту марсохода Curiosity во время его путешествия к Марсу. Этот инструмент, в отличие от других датчиков марсохода, был включен еще на орбите Земли в ноябре 2011 года. Он находится практически в центре ровера, что позволяло использовать его в качестве "муляжа" астронавта во время полета к Красной планете.

Первые результаты его работы были опубликованы еще в августе 2012 года, однако полный анализ данных потребовали свыше 8 месяцев исследований. По словам астробиологов, во время полета RAD фиксировал постоянно высокий уровень облучения. Лишь небольшая его часть, около 5%, приходилась на частицы солнечного ветра, которые может заблокировать обшивка корабля.

С другой стороны, большая доля радиации, 95%, приходилась на космические лучи высокой энергии, от которых практически невозможно защититься

Учитывая это, специалисты говорят, что для отправки людей к Марсу необходимы принципиально новые типы скафандров и новые типы обшивки кораблей, которые бы позволяли защитить людей от радиации. Кроме того, необходимы и новые типы медицинских препаратов, которые бы могли сгладить негативные последствия радиационного воздействия.

[2012_registration]

LRV_75 пишет:

Валерий, давайте поспорим с Вами на 1000 долларов, что на Марс в 2018 году не полетят?

С такой формулировкой не надо. В 2018 году могут полететь MELOS и ExoMars Rover+Static Lander.
Если кто-то из них полетит, то он может сказать, что выиграл.
Т.Е. в условие пари надо добавить, что никто не полетит с людьми на борту.

[instml]

MELOS не полетит  

[ronatu]

Astronauts face radiation threat on long Mars trip

There have been previous efforts to gauge the radiation risk for future Mars travelers, but the best estimate is coming fr om NASA's Curiosity mission. Tucked inside the rover when it launched in 2011 was a radiation sensor that took readings during the 8 1/2-month cruise to Mars.
Fr om those figures, scientists calculated a spacefarer's radiation exposure for a quicker six-month voyage in a similarly shielded spacecraft. Roundtrip: about 662 millisieverts. That's a sizable chunk of an astronaut's career cap of 1,000 millisieverts which many international space agencies use to limit the accumulated radiation dosage in space.
NASA's threshold depends on age and gender. The career dose lim it for 30-to-60-year-old male astronauts who never smoked ranges from 800 to 1,200 millisieverts. For female astronauts, the lim it ranges from 600 to 1,000 millisieverts.
The radiation exposure from a Mars journey is similar to getting a full-body CT scan every five or six days, said lead researcher Cary Zeitlin of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo.
 
http://www.rdmag.com/news/2013/05/astronauts-face-radiation-threat-long-mars-trip?et_cid=3286933&et_rid=366287743&linkid=http%3a%2f%2fwww.rdmag.com%2fnews%2f2013%2f05%2fastronauts-face-radiation-threat-long-mars-trip

[ronatu]

ronatu пишет:

Astronauts face radiation threat on long Mars trip

....Fr om those figures, scientists calculated a spacefarer's radiation exposure for a quicker six-month voyage in a similarly shielded spacecraft. Roundtrip: about 662 millisieverts. That's a sizable chunk of an astronaut's career cap of 1,000 millisieverts which many international space agencies use to limit the accumulated radiation dosage in space.
NASA's threshold depends on age and gender. The career dose limit for 30-to-60-year-old male astronauts who never smoked ranges from 800 to 1,200 millisieverts. For female astronauts, the lim it ranges from 600 to 1,000 millisieverts.
 The radiation exposure from a Mars journey is similar to getting a full-body CT scan every five or six days , said lead researcher Cary Zeitlin of the Southwest Research Institute in Boulder, Colo.......

http://www.rdmag.com/news/2013/05/astronauts-face-radiation-threat-long-mars-trip

[Valerij]

Program Schedule The 16th Annual International Mars Society Convention

The University of Colorado, Boulder, August 15-18, 2013
.....
Friday, August 16
   
Morning Plenaries
   
9:00 am - 12:00 pm
.....
Dr. Dennis Tito                                             Inspiration Mars Mission
   
Inspiration Mars
   

http://www.marssociety.org/conventions/2013/schedule  
   
Анонсировано выступление Дениса Тито с презентацией его проэкта (и, очевидно, с рассказом о том, как идут дела) 16 августа сего года на ежегодной конференции международного Марсианского общества.

[Soligorsk]

Не подскажете почему написано "Dr Dennis Tito"? Можно ли найти аннотацию его диссертации?

[Valerij]

Soligorsk пишет:
Не подскажете почему написано "Dr Dennis Tito"? Можно ли найти аннотацию его диссертации?

Не подскажу. Он достаточно известный человек, и его достаточно подробную биографию можно найти в сети. Если интересно - займитесь.
Во всяком случае не все докладчики "Dr"

[Soligorsk]

 Да я вот поискал и не нашёл. Терзают смутные сомнения  :|

[Maksim]

Статья из немецкой ВИКИпедии
wurde im Mai 2002 von seiner Alma Mater, dem Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, zum Ehrendoktor ernannt.

Его родное учебное заведение Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute присвоило ему звание почетного доктора.
 Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute вне США не  известен своей  фундаментальной наукой, хотя может и известен в инжинерных дисциплинах.

[Valerij]

Inspiration Mars is absolutely "feeling the time crunch" as 2018 looms
Thursday, August 15, 2013
Eric Berger

It's been half a year since Dennis Tito, a multimillionaire and first private astronaut, announced his audacious plans to send a married couple on spaceflight to within 100 miles of the surface of Mars -- and back.

Since then planners of this Inspiration Mars mission have been quiet. Does that mean the idea has faded away?

To find out I checked in with Taber MacCallum, program manager, Inspiration Mars.

What has Inspiration Mars been up to? Why the secrecy?

"It's been sort of frustrating because I want to tell everyone what's going on," MacCallum said. The project has been busy figuring out what spacecraft components, such as the capsule and life support systems, will be optimal for the 501-day round-trip mission. They've been negotiating with companies under non-disclosure agreements. MacCallum said he expected to be able to discuss the architecture of the mission in detail by the end of the year.

An artist's rendering of the spacecraft. (Inspiration Mars)

What's the biggest technical challenge?

One of them is getting the crew safely home through Earth's atmosphere. Apollo astronauts flying back from the moon hit speeds of 25,000 mph in Earth's atmosphere, which required extensive shielding. With the Mars flight, speeds will near 32,000 mph, and the difference is not linear, MacCallum said. Which means shielding is going to be an especially difficult problem. Inspiration Mars has been working with NASA's Ames Research Center to identify optimal shielding.

Speaking of NASA, are they receptive to the mission?

"We're finding that we're having a closer and closer relationship with NASA," MacCallum said. In fact he expects to test some of the hardware needed for the long-duration spaceflight on the International Space Station. "I think, if it were not for the ISS, this mission would be impossible," he said.

Taber MacCallum - Paragon Space Development Corporation

How close are you to picking astronauts?

Baylor College of Medicine's Dr. Jonathan Clark is leading the process of identifying astronauts for the mission and doing the selection. However, because of the growing relationship with NASA, MacCallum said ultimately the space agency may ultimately conduct the selection process, and the candidates might be NASA astronauts.

Due to orbital mechanics time is short. The mission has to launch in 2018. Do they you a time crunch?

"We are feeling the time crunch, absolutely, which is one reason for having our nose down to the grindstone," MacCallum said. "It's a scary short time. It's audacious and crazy, and this is just crazy enough to work." To remain on the timeline, MacCallum said Inspiration Mars needs to be looking at a preliminary design review for the flight in the first third of 2014, which means having the design, associated production and ground support plans for the mission sketched out.

How is fund-raising going?

The program has money for this year and next thanks to Tito. To fund the mission itself, there are two steps. First, MacCallum said, is to obtain in-kind donations of hardware from industry participants, the kinds of companies who would hope to see their hardware used on future, deep-space exploration missions. Secondly, there will be naming-rights and media-rights opportunities along with philanthropy.

http://blog.chron.com/sciguy/2013/08/inspiration-mars-is-absolutely-feeling-the-time-crunch-as-2018-looms/
 
Мы чувствуем как время хрустит

Прошло пол года с тех пор, как Денис Тито объявил о своих планах послать двух человек на облет Марса....
Taber MacCallum сказал, что сейчас они ведут переговоры с возможными подрядчиками и связаны обязательствами о неразглашении, и что он предполагает, что сможет рассказать о деталях планируемой миссии к концу года.
Самая большая по его мнению техническая проблема в возвращении на Землю с такой скоростью.
"У нас очень близкие отношения с НАСА и, если бы не возможность проверять некоторые технические решения, связанные с длительным полетом на МКС, то такая миссия была бы невозможна. В конечном счете, возможно, что НАСА проведет отбор астронавтов для этой миссии.
"Мы чувствуем как время хрустит" сказал MacCallum, и добавил, что чтобы успеть они должны иметь подробный проект (включающий дизайн, согласованный с поставщиками и детальные планы поддержки) в первой трети 2014 года.
На этот год и отчасти на будущий у программы есть деньги.

[Valerij]

Millionaire seeks an assist for Inspiration Mars mission
Alan Boyle, Science Editor, NBC News
Aug. 16, 2013 at 7:10 PM ET

A tricolor Martian flag is unfurled by Mars Society President Robert Zubrin at the end of a presentation at the society's convention by Inspiration Mars' Taber MacCallum (center) and Dennis Tito.

As the clock ticks toward a 2018 launch, the millionaire who's funding the Inspiration Mars effort to send a man and woman around the Red Planet is reaching out for support from students, from rocket companies -- and from NASA.

"We're going to have to do it with NASA, and probably a certain amount of government funding," said Dennis Tito, the investment guru and one-time space passenger who kicked off the Mars flyby project earlier this year. "But probably within the scope of the current budget."

Tito and other leaders of Inspiration Mars provided an upd ate on their plans on Friday at the Mars Society's annual convention at the University of Colorado in Boulder. In cooperation with the Mars Society and NASA's Ames Research Center, they also announced an engineering design contest that gives student-led teams a chance to lay out proposed mission architectures for the 501-day flyby.

 Скрытый текст:

The top-rated team gets $10,000, plus an expense-paid trip to next year's Mars Society meeting. There'll also be cash prizes for four runner-up teams. Check out the Mars Society website for deadlines and details.

Mission in flux
The contest serves as one indication that Inspiration Mars is still a project in flux. Chief technology officer Taber MacCallum told NBC News that the mission architecture is still under study, and the crew selection process isn't due to begin until next year.

But at least one thing is not in flux: the 2018 launch date. That's because the mission is being designed around a rarely occurring "free return" trajectory that would send a spacecraft within 100 miles (160 kilometers) of the Martian surface and bring it back to Earth without any extra rocket blasts along the way. Such an opportunity won't come again until 2033.

The need to launch in 2018 -- or hold off for another 15 years -- means Tito, MacCallum and their colleagues need all the help they can get. They're already getting lots of free advice from NASA, and taking advantage of the know-how gained from 13 years of operations on the International Space Station.

"This mission would not be possible without the ISS," MacCallum said. "We're really taking ISS technology and adapting it to a two-person crew for that duration. We would love to test our systems on the International Space Station. It'd be a crime not to."

MacCallum said Inspiration Mars might even hand over responsibility for crew selection and training to NASA -- with the understanding that the astronauts would have to be a man and a woman, most likely a couple beyond childbearing age, so that both genders of the species would be represented on the mission.

Who's paying how much?
Inspiration Mars is talking with several potential hardware providers, including California-based SpaceX, which is developing a Falcon Heavy rocket that could do the job. SpaceX's billionaire founder, Elon Musk, has said it's possible to send people to Mars in 10 to 20 years -- and although the launch vehicle has not yet been sel ected, MacCallum hinted that he's hoping Musk or other partners will provide in-kind contributions.

"The sequence that we're in is fixing the architecture first, and getting the most support we can from the participants in the architecture," he said.

Neither MacCallum nor Tito has been specific about how much the flyby mission will cost -- other than to say that it'll be more than the millionaire can contribute from his personal fortune, but less than the $2.5 billion cost of NASA's Curiosity rover mission to Mars. Robert Zubrin, president of the Mars Society, told NBC News that he estimated the total cost at $700 million.

If Tito has his way, some of that money would come fr om media licensing deals and commercial sponsorships. And then there's NASA: The space agency's current exploration plan calls for snagging a piece of an asteroid and sending out a team of astronauts to study it in the mid-2020s -- then sending astronauts to reconnoiter Mars and its moons, Phobos and Deimos, by the 2030s. Tito is hoping that some aspects of the Inspiration Mars mission will mesh well enough with NASA's vision to merit financial or logistical support.

What would NASA do?
Zubrin said Inspiration Mars could be just the thing to break NASA out of the rut it's in.

"If this mission happens, this will completely change everyone's thinking, within NASA, within Congress, within the public at large, as to what a human Mars mission is. Is it part of our world, or is it part of the world of the future? Right now, NASA's thinking has humans to Mars being part of the future. It's not part of our reality at all. ... This is a chance for a breakthrough," he said.

Tito is already looking beyond Inspiration Mars to the next big opportunity in 2033.

"That might be an orbiter mission to Mars, and possibly a rendezvous with Phobos," Tito told the Mars Society crowd. "It wouldn't be 'boots on Mars,' but it might be 'boots on Phobos.' Landing is two orders of magnitude more difficult than the Inspiration Mars mission. I don't know, it could be the end of the century before we land people on Mars, in my opinion."

"I'm more optimistic," Zubrin replied.

If Inspiration Mars is as inspirational as Zubrin hopes, it could spark a mass movement to fund Red Planet missions in the 2020s with private donations. He pointed out that if 100 million people around the world contributed $100 annually, there'd be $10 billion available for the se ttlement of Mars. And maybe even more.

"Those 100 million people have in their pockets the resources to colonize the solar system," Zubrin said.

http://www.nbcnews.com/science/millionaire-seeks-assist-inspiration-mars-mission-6C10932930
   
Така как время тикает, то Денис Тито ищет поддержки у предприятий космической индустрии и у НАСА. Мы оказываемся перед необходимостью прибегнуть к помощи НАСА и просить бюджетного финансирования на какую-то часть расходов. "Но вероятно в рамках текущего бюджета."
 
Проект уже получает много бесплатных советов от НАСА и использует ноу-хау, разработанное за 13 лет для МКС.

Ни MacCallum, ни Тито не назвали точной стоимости проекта, но сказали, что сумма больше, чем может вложить Денис Тито из своих денег, но меньше, чем два с половиной миллиарда долларов, в которые обошлась миссия "Любопытства". По мнению Роберта Зубрина стоимость программы порядка 700 миллионов долларов. Предполагается, что некоторые поставщики сделают "натуральные взносы" в программу.

[Back-stabber]

Я уж грешным делом думал они успокоились... Ан нет, шоу продолжается...  

[Старый]

Valerij пишет:

 прибегнуть к помощи НАСА и просить бюджетного финансирования 

Ай, молодца!