Ariane-6 Next Generation Launcher

[Старый]

У! А если как у Дельты прилепить 6 ускорителей и два включать в полёте!

[Nilk]

Хотя может это и к лучшему, при случае есть куда удлинять.

Да, если их сделать раза в два подлиннее будет вообще красота 

[silentpom]

ну они же хотят унифицировать с Вегой-С, для нее более мощный может не подойти

[Сергей]

Старый пишет:
Коротковаты ускорители.
Хотя может это и к лучшему, при случае есть куда удлинять.

Конкретно характеристики этих ТТУ не смотрел. Поэтому из общих соображений. Соотношение диаметра к длине ТТУ близко к оптимальному. Это означает максимальное весовое совершенство ТТУ, минимальные внутрикамерные газодинамические потери удельного импульса. Технологически можно перейти на корпуса типа кокон (если они одноразовые), не возиться с стальными многосекционными корпусами. Решают конкретную задачу - увеличение стартовой тяговооруженности, причем похоже нет необходимости делать падающую диаграмму давления в камере ТТУ с учетом возможности дросселирования ДУ ЦБ для ограничения продольных ускорений, соответственно максимальный УИ ТТУ. И поскольку ТТУ относительно невелики, то и увеличение стоимости РН за счет более высокой стоимости ТТ компенсируется уменьшение затрат на разработку более мощных ЖРД и РН в целом.

[Salo]

Дмитрий В. пишет:

Salo пишет:
Это версия от декабря 2014 года.

А не 2015-го?

Был не прав:
http://www.airbusafran-launchers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Ariane6-eng.pdf

[Salo]

http://www.airbusafran-launchers.com/#medialibrary

[Salo]

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/ariane6.html

Design Evolves in 2015

Ariane 64 Design as of November 2015

In early November, 2015, Airbus-Safran released drawings that showed a fatter, shorter Ariane 6.  The core diameter had increased to 5.4 meters, the same diameter as the payload fairing and the same as Ariane 5.   The fatter core had reduced overall vehicle height to 60 meters, which would make it only slightly taller than Ariane 5.  A single Vulcain V2.1 was identified as the core stage propulsion.

The strap on solid rocket motors were identified as P120C motors.   Their nose fairings were elongated and they tapered in toward the core stage intertank section, another change from earlier plans.

Liftoff mass for Ariane 62 was given as "~500 tonnes" and for Ariane 64 as "~800 tonnes".

[Дмитрий В.]

Salo пишет:

http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/ariane6.html

Design Evolves in 2015
       Ariane 64 Design as of November 2015    In early November, 2015, Airbus-Safran released drawings that showed a fatter, shorter Ariane 6.  The core diameter had increased to 5.4 meters, the same diameter as the payload fairing and the same as Ariane 5.   The fatter core had reduced overall vehicle height to 60 meters, which would make it only slightly taller than Ariane 5.  A single Vulcain V2.1 was identified as the core stage propulsion.    The strap on solid rocket motors were identified as P120C motors.   Their nose fairings were elongated and they tapered in toward the core stage intertank section, another change from earlier plans.   Liftoff mass for Ariane 62 was given as "~500 tonnes" and for Ariane 64 as "~800 tonnes".

Следующий этап - размещение СТУ не по схеме "+" а по схеме "х". Тогда можно попытатьсся использовать СК от Ариан-5 и из двух сопел СТУ на старте "дуть" в дыру от Р241

[Salo]

И добавить ещё два СТУ при необходимости.

[Искандер]

Дмитрий В. пишет:

Salo пишет:

 http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/ariane6.html

Design Evolves in 2015
    Ariane 64 Design as of November 2015 In early November, 2015, Airbus-Safran released drawings that showed a fatter, shorter Ariane 6. The core diameter had increased to 5.4 meters, the same diameter as the payload fairing and the same as Ariane 5. The fatter core had reduced overall vehicle height to 60 meters, which would make it only slightly taller than Ariane 5. A single Vulcain V2.1 was identified as the core stage propulsion. The strap on solid rocket motors were identified as P120C motors. Their nose fairings were elongated and they tapered in toward the core stage intertank section, another change from earlier plans. Liftoff mass for Ariane 62 was given as "~500 tonnes" and for Ariane 64 as "~800 tonnes".

Следующий этап - размещение СТУ не по схеме "+" а по схеме "х". Тогда можно попытатьсся использовать СК от Ариан-5 и из двух сопел СТУ на старте "дуть" в дыру от Р241    

Это вам не хухры-мухры, это вам (ре)дизайн на 11 (?) лярдов евров...

Извиняюсь, но в тему помянул     

Я вчера видел раков по пять рублей.   
Но больших,   
Но по пять рублей...
Правда, большие... 
но по пять рублей... 
но очень большие... 
хотя и по пять...
но очень большие...
правда, и по пять рублей...
но зато большие...
хотя по пять, но большие...
а сегодня были по три, 
но маленькие, но по три...
но маленькие... 
зато по три...
хотя совсем маленькие...
поэтому по три... 
хотя маленькие...
зато по три...




Короче - типа оптимизация расходов. Как я не понимал что они там оптимизировали в Ариан-6, так и не понимаю...Логистику, что ли?

[fagot]

Формально и официально - повысили гибкость применения за счет варьирования числа ускорителей и снижают стоимость всех элементов. Хотя есть мнение, что это только предлог для разработки нового носителя, дабы не засыхали мозги. Некоторые считают такую деятельность попилом.

[Дмитрий В.]

fagot пишет:

Формально и официально - повысили гибкость применения за счет варьирования числа ускорителей и снижают стоимость всех элементов. Хотя есть мнение, что это только предлог для разработки нового носителя, дабы не засыхали мозги. Некоторые считают такую деятельность попилом.

Переход на мотанные композитные СТУ позволит делать их в Европе, что позволит закрыть завод по изготовлению СТУ в Гвиане, что, говорят, заметно дешевле.

ЗЫ, Имхо, было бы проще сразу оставить нынешнюю EPC и просто "баловаться" СТУ. Затраты на разработку были бы гораздо меньше.

[Старый]

Дмитрий В. пишет: 
Переход на мотанные композитные СТУ позволит делать их в Европе, что позволит закрыть завод по изготовлению СТУ в Гвиане, что, говорят, заметно дешевле.

А что, разве проблема была в изготовлении корпусов? Как я понял проблема была в топливе, чтоб не возить из Европы заряженые РДТТ. 

ЗЫ, Имхо, было бы проще сразу оставить нынешнюю EPC и просто "баловаться" СТУ. Затраты на разработку были бы гораздо меньше.

Я думаю надо было делать ЕСВ, увеличивать ПН и подбирать пары из любых спутников. В дальнейшем за счёт второго включения запускать электросаты или спутники непосредственно на ГСО.

[Apollo13]

Salo пишет:
The core diameter had increased to 5.4 meters, the same diameter as the payload fairing and the same as Ariane 5. The fatter core had reduced overall vehicle height to 60 meters, which would make it only slightly taller than Ariane 5.

И за это семь (!) миллиардов (!!) евро(!!!)

[fagot]

Дмитрий В. пишет:
Переход на мотанные композитные СТУ позволит делать их в Европе, что позволит закрыть завод по изготовлению СТУ в Гвиане, что, говорят, заметно дешевле.

Можно было бы и сегменты возить из Европы. По сути новый ускоритель меньше старого на средний сегмент, вряд ли это заметно снизит стоимость, особенно с учетом замены стального корпуса композитным, причем для тяжелого варианта их нужно четыре вместо двух.

[silentpom]

" По сути новый ускоритель меньше старого на средний сегмент, вряд ли это заметно снизит стоимость, особенно с учетом замены стального корпуса композитным, причем для тяжелого варианта их нужно четыре вместо двух" 

новый ускоритель будут делать в Италии на существующем производстве, а завод на экваторе, который больше не нужен, закроют.

[fagot]

silentpom пишет:
новый ускоритель будут делать в Италии на существующем производстве, а завод на экваторе, который больше не нужен, закроют.

Так я и говорю, что в Италии точно так же можно было бы делать сегменты для старых ускорителей.

[Salo]

Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  3 ч.3 часа назад  
Airbus Safran Launchers' Charmeau: Ariane 6 to be integrated horizontally, unlike Ariane 5. Multiple advantages.  
 

Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes  3 ч.3 часа назад  
Airbus Safran Launchers, now 400 people, to be ~8,000 w/in a year. Here's how CEO Alain Charmeau describes it.

[Salo]

http://spacenews.com/airbus-safran-launchers-1st-ariane-6-batch-contract-bid-by-end-year/

Airbus Safran Launchers: 1st Ariane 6 batch contract bid by end-year
by Peter B. de Selding — January 29, 2016
 
Alain Charmeau, chief executive of Airbus Safran Launchers, said the first Ariane 6 rocket, horizontally integrated and priced 40-50% less than Ariane 5, is on track for a 2020 launch. CREDIT: Airbus Safran Launchers
 
KOUROU, French Guiana – The company designing Europe's next-generation Ariane 6 rocket – to be integrated horizontally, not vertically as previous Ariane vehicles — expects to submit a firm, fixed-price bid for a first batch of rockets by the end of this year, the company's chief executive said Jan. 28.
Alain Charmeau, chief executive of Airbus Safran Launchers (ASL), said 2016 is the key transition year for his company, which remains a work in progress. Formed in 2015, ASL has been given broad leeway to reorganize Europe's launcher sector to assure that Ariane 6 is ready for an inaugural flight in 2020 and able to compete on price and performance with SpaceX of the United States.
Briefing reporters, Charmeau said ASL remains on track to meet both objectives but has no time to lose. In particular, he said a review of the tax consequences to Airbus of an expected payment by Safran of 800 million euros ($873 million) to offset in-kind Airbus contributions to ASL must be resolved within a couple of months to avoid any impact on the Ariane 6 schedule.
But that is only one of several milestones that Charmeau said must be reached so that the company "is able to put a firm offer on the table, by the end of 2016, for the first batch of Ariane 6 vehicles."
Airbus and the Arianespace commercial launch consortium, in which Airbus will have a 74 percent stake once the European Commission clears the sale of French government Arianespace shares to Airbus, would negotiate an Ariane 6 production order.
Charmeau said the transaction for Airbus Safran Launchers to purchase the French government's 35 percent Arianespace share was submitted to the European Commission in early January, with approval expected by late February. ASL and the French space agency, CNES, negotiated a price of 150 million euros
The French government's Official Journal on Jan. 22 said the French research, economics and defense ministries have approved the transaction.
Airbus's tax concerns has already delayed the full formation of ASL, which was supposed to have integrated a total of 8,000 former Airbus and Safran employees by Jan. 1. Charmeau said the one-month schedule slip is not enough to undermine the 2020 first-launch date, but that the issue must be resolved before April to avoid production delays.

"This is a non-negligible event," Charmeau said. "You'll have 8,000 people whose employment contracts are going to change. We have 400 now, leaving 7,600 who are knocking on our door to get in. It's only normal that they want to be a part of an ambitious new program like Ariane 6."
What happens to Arianespace once ASL becomes the dominant shareholder remains a subject of speculation.
In a Jan. 27 interview here, Arianespace Chief Executive Stephane Israel said he expects ASL to abide by previous statements that it will maintain Arianespace as a separate commercial entity outside ASL, retain Arianespace's Evry, France, headquarters and its offices in Washington, Tokyo and Singapore.
Israel said ASL has guaranteed in its submission to the European Commission that "a Chinese Wall will be created between ASL and Arianespace on the one hand, and Airbus's satellite division on the other. That is indispensable; everybody understands it," Israel said.
Israel was echoing fears of rival satellite builders that ASL and Arianespace would leak to Airbus's satellite division confidential information delivered by other satellite builders in the course of Ariane launch contract negotiations.
Charmeau said a closer integration of Arianespace and ASL should create "synergies and efficiencies," which in some industrial contexts is a polite language for work-force reductions. Charmeau did not discuss the future employment picture at Arianespace or at ASL once the reorganization was complete.
"Rearranging the [Arianespace] shareholder structure is not the goal," Charmeau said. "The goal is a rapprochement of the two companies so that we can work better together and give ASL a better sense of where the market is going."
ASL has promised European governments and commercial satellite operators that Ariane 6 will be priced 40-50 percent less than today's Ariane 5 in return for a guarantee of five European government satellite missions, on average, per year.
Once Safran's payment to Airbus and ASL's Arianespace share purchase is completed, ASL's focus is a mid-year Ariane 6 review by the European Space Agency (ESA).
ASL and ESA in August signed a 2.4-billion-euro Ariane 6 development contract following ESA governments' general approval of the program in December 2014.
But these governments asked to review a formal progress report – a Program Implementation Review — in mid-2016 before freeing up the balance of the financing to complete Ariane 6 development through to the inaugural flight.
Charmeau said ASL would submit to ESA, in June, "a guarantee of the design and production cost of all services associated with Ariane 6. We then expect a decision by ESA in September."
Officials from ESA and from the French space agency, CNES, have been kept in the loop on Ariane 6 progress, and it's CNES that is prime contractor for building the Ariane 6 launch facility here at Europe's Guiana Space Center.
One key decision was whether to turn away from nearly 40 years of Ariane rocket history and integrate Ariane 6 horizontally. Charmeau said that decision is now firm and affords multiple advantages.

"It allows us to move more quickly, both in the design and production phases, and to adapt to potentially higher production levels while reducing operating costs," Charmeau said. He said that European engineers for the past five years have had first-hand experience with horizontal integration with the Europeanized Russian Soyuz rocket, which is launched here.
The current production rate is expected to be 12 Ariane 6 rocket cores per year. The vehicle uses cryogenic engines for its main stage and upper stages and either two or four solid-propellant strap-on boosters, depending on mission requirements.
The four-booster variant, called Ariane 64, will be the main commercial workhorse for launching telecommunications satellites, two at a time, into geostationary transfer orbit.
The current Ariane 5 rocket will be operated alongside Ariane 6 between 2020 and 2023, after which Ariane 5 will be retired after 27 years of operations.
Charmeau said ASL expects to build 20 Ariane 6 rockets before the end of 2023.

[Salo]

http://spacenews.com/ariane-6-rocket-designers-say-theyll-match-or-beat-todays-spacex-prices-on-per-kilogram-basis/

Ariane 6 designers say they'll beat SpaceX prices on per-kilogram basis
by Peter B. de Selding — April 6, 2016
 
Ariane 6 rocket development managers say they are more confident than ever that the vehicle will debut as scheduled in 2020 and will match or beat the price points for today's SpaceX Falcon 9 Upgrade rocket. Credit: ASL  
 
LES MUREAUX, France – Europe's next-generation Ariane 6 rocket remains on track for a 2020 first launch with a cost structure allowing the heavier Ariane 64 version to advertise per-kilogram prices below today's Space X Falcon 9, European government and industry officials said April 6.
They said they saw no roadblocks to the 2020 first-flight date despite what they described as noncritical delays that have no impact on the rocket's design, performance or cost targets.
These issues include a delay of several months in the ramp-up of Airbus Safran Launchers (ASL), which is the Ariane 6 prime contractor, due to tax issues in France, and an extended antitrust review by the European Commission of ASL's plan to become the dominant shareholder of the Arianespace commercial launch consortium.
Addressing a press briefing here at Airbus Safran Launchers' production site, ASL Chief Executive Alain Charmeau said he expected the expected transfer of cash fr om Safran to Airbus to occur before the end of April.
Airbus and Safran had agreed that Safran would pay Airbus 800 million euros ($874 million) in cash, in addition to its rocket-engine manufacturing capability, to become a 50-50 ASL shareholder with Airbus.
Airbus officials since the beginning of the year have been negotiating with French tax authorities to determine how to minimize the tax bite of the cash transfer, which industry officials could be as high as 500 million euros, leaving Airbus with a net of just 300 million euros.
Delays in the cash transfer have meant that ASL, which is expected to count 8,000 employees, has been operating with only around 400 employees. In addition, it has made it difficult for the initial ASL team to present a fixed-price Ariane 6 production proposal to the 22-nation European Space Agency, which is financing the majority of Ariane 6 development.
Charmeau and other officials attending the briefing said there has been positive movement on the tax issue in recent days and that a late-April conclusion appeared possible.
ASL then will provide its Ariane 6 cost proposal – Charmeau called it a "fixed price with variations" – by the end of April. Negotiations on the details will follow, after which ESA will conduct a scheduled Program Implementation Review.
"We will agree with ESA on an escalation formula [in contract pricing] in order to update the prices according to certain criteria between now and the end of the development phase," Charmeau said. "It's an inflation computation."
ESA will submit its conclusions of its review, which its governments had ordered as a condition of releasing the full complement of Ariane 6 funding — to the agency's Ariane 6 participating nations in time for a decision by ESA's ruling council on Sept. 13.
The European Commission, which is the executive arm of the 28-nation European Union, has already approved ASL's formation with several minor caveats. But ASL's proposal to purchase the 35 percent stake in Arianespace now held by the French government faces a deeper review.
The commission has said the review is likely to end, possibly with requirements that ASL must meet, by mid-July.
Airbus officials in the past have referred to the creation of ASL, the signing of the ESA Ariane 6 contract and the de facto takeover of Arianespace as an indivisible package indispensable for the success of the Ariane 6 project.
Charmeau repeated this assessment during the briefing, but said that the commission's antitrust investigation "will have no effect" on the Ariane 6 design and contract schedule, assuming that the review is finished by September.
The commission is looking at whether Arianespace's minority shareholders, who are Ariane 6 contractors, will be protected once Airbus Safran Launchers raises its Arianespace shareholding to 74 percent fr om today's 39 percent.
The commission is also reviewing concerns expressed by satellite builders that Airbus, which is a major manufacturer of commercial satellites, might give its own satellites preferential treatment in setting the Ariane 6 manufest.
Ariane 6 comes in two versions. The Ariane 62 has two solid-fueled strap-on boosters, which also serve as the first stage of Europe's Vega small-satellite launcher, and is capable of placing a 5,000-kilogram satellite into geostationary transfer orbit.
The Ariane 64 carries four strap-on boosters and can place satellites weighing a combined 10,500 kilograms into that orbit, which is wh ere most commercial telecommunications satellites operate.
Patrick Bonguet, Ariane 6 program head at ASL, said Ariane 6 is keeping to its promise of reducing per-kilogram launch prices by 40-50 percent compared to today's Ariane 5.
The goal, as it was in the beginning, is to complete with Hawthorne, California-based SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket. "Ariane 6 will have twice the mass and twice the volume of the Falcon 9, at less than twice the price," Bonguet said.
SpaceX's Falcon 9 Upgrade recently demonstrated its ability to carry a 5,300-kilogram telecommunications satellite to geostationary transfer orbit by stretching its capacity to the lim it.
Bonguet was referring to a fully loaded Ariane 6, with 10,500 kilograms of satellite payload, and comparing that launch's price to today's Falcon 9, which typically carries just one geostationary-orbit satellite per launch.
SpaceX prices are typically around $60 million per commercial launch. By the time the Ariane 6 enters service – the initial launch in mid-2020 is scheduled to lead to the full cadence of 11-12 missions per year by 2023 – SpaceX plans to be reusing its Falcon 9 first stage on a regular basis.
SpaceX has said reusing the stage should allow them to reduce Falcon 9 prices by around 30 percent.