Двигатели верхних ступеней ракет.

[hecata]

Профит в возможности обойти ограничение на теплосъем с КС для "мятия газа" и ГГ тут будет далекий от вылизанности его в нормальных движках.

Водородник с поноценным ГГ и ТНА дороже чем на "мятом газе", но у последнего ограничение по максимальной достижимой тяге в 25-30 т, которое и пытаемся обойти. 10-тонник для 2 ступени маловат и 25-тонник тоже. Нужно 40-50 т.


П.С. Что перевесит я не уверен. Но схема на жизнь имеет право.

Вы как-то быстро шапки переодеваете на себе "Полумятая" схема и ГГ имеет (и вылизывать его придется точно так же, только расход меньше будет), и в то же время всю тяжесть "рубашечной" газификации на себе тащит (ПГС там сложнее). 2 ТНА опять же, специально придеться ставить схемы слива одного из компонентов при запуске, что бы добиться синхронности, и еще наверняка миллиард проблем.

[октоген]

Вспомнил что за движок планировался с теплообменником в камере-японский HIPEX.

[m-s Gelezniak]

Угадайка (не нашёл старый топик)
Что это?

[Дмитрий В.]

Угадайка (не нашёл старый топик)
Что это?

http://www.yuzhnoye.com/?id=144&path=Aerospace Technology/Rocket Propulsion/Liquid Engines/Sustainers/RD-858/RD-858

Но он не для верхнихступеней.

[m-s Gelezniak]

Вернее некуда  :lol:
Сравните с ДУ блока Е ЛК.

[Дмитрий В.]

Вернее некуда  :lol:
Сравните с ДУ блока Е ЛК.

"Если на клетке с буйволом написано "тигр", не верь глазам своим"! :lol:

[m-s Gelezniak]

:lol:
PS
Почему то запомнилось, что один из двигателей блока Е, все же использозовался на верхней ступени одного из боевых комплексов.
PSS
В поисках одного, набрел на другое. Улыбнуло

[frigate]

Лунный корабль
2. Ракетный блок Е

[SpaceR]

Почему то запомнилось, что один из двигателей блока Е, все же использозовался на верхней ступени одного из боевых комплексов.

Почему-то мне такого не попадалось.
Подробностей нет ?

[m-s Gelezniak]

Почему то запомнилось, что один из двигателей блока Е, все же использозовался на верхней ступени одного из боевых комплексов.

Почему-то мне такого не попадалось.
Подробностей нет ?

Информация проскакивала в открытом интервью по ТВ от уткинцев (начало - середина 90) это все к сожелению.

[Salo]

http://www.spacenews.com/military/air-force-upper-stage.html

Fri, 15 October, 2010
U.S. Air Force Ponders New Upper-stage Rocket Engine[/size]
By Turner Brinton

    WASHINGTON — The U.S. Air Force is beginning to weigh options for developing a more capable and affordable upper-stage engine for the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 rockets the service uses to launch most national security payloads.

    The Air Force Space and Missile Systems Center in Los Angeles is giving industry until Nov. 9 to submit ideas for building a next-generation upper-stage engine to replace by 2017 the two versions of the RL-10 engine Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne builds for the Atlas 5 and Delta 4. A formal request for information the Air Force posted Sept. 27 on the Federal Business Opportunities website has garnered the attention of Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne and its rival Aerojet, the other main U.S. producer of liquid-fueled rocket engines.

    Originally developed under the Air Force's Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program as competing rockets, the Atlas 5 and Delta 4 are operated today by United Launch Alliance of Denver, a Boeing-Lockheed Martin joint venture. The rockets use slightly different versions of the liquid hydrogen-fueled RL-10 engine to power their upper stage. While the engine has evolved over the years, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne officials say engineers are reaching the limit of additional improvements that can be squeezed out of the 50-year-old engine design.

    The Air Force plans to continue to rely heavily on the EELV rockets until at least 2030, and the service wants to have a new upper-stage engine produced and qualified by 2017 that uses the same cryogenic fuel as the RL-10, according to the Sept. 27 posting. The proposed next-generation engine "would use modern design and manufacturing methods. It is expected that the new engine will demonstrate state-of-the-art operating margin and reliability and minimize life-cycle costs," the posting said.

    The RL-10B-2 engine used in the Atlas 5 vehicle is more capable than its Delta 4 counterpart, the RL-10A-4-2. The Atlas variant produces 24,750 pounds of thrust and has a specific impulse — a measure of the engine's efficiency — of 465.5 seconds. The Air Force would like the next-generation engine to be as efficient as the current Atlas design and produce between 25,000 pounds and 35,000 pounds of thrust, the posting said.

    Canoga Park, Calif.-based Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne has encouraged the Air Force to invest in new engine development as a way to drive down the ever-increasing costs of the EELV program.

    "We certainly have been advocating the need to go to a next-generation engine, not because we believe the RL-10 is necessarily a bad engine — it has a tremendous demonstrated reliability and has flown more than 500 times — but it's based on technology that was formed in the late '50s and early '60s," said Steve Bouley, Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne's vice president for launch vehicles and hypersonic systems.

    "We see an advantage in making an investment now to go to a next-generation engine and leverage the ability to have the same kind of reliability and performance as a minimum and reduce the cost, improve the manufacturability and leverage the history of the RL-10," he said.

    Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne in recent years has invested some $40 million in new technologies such as turbo pumps and new engine chamber and ejector designs, and it has presented the Air Force with a roadmap for moving to a next-generation engine design, Bouley said.

    The other primary U.S. developer of liquid-fueled rocket engines, Aerojet of Sacramento, Calif., also plans to respond to the Air Force's request for information.

    "We're pleased that advanced capabilities are being evaluated," said Julie Van Kleeck, Aerojet's vice president for space and launch systems. "We think anything to further the U.S. propulsion capability in terms of using modern manufacturing processes is a positive."

    More than improved performance, Van Kleeck believes the Air Force is most interested in developing an engine that will be more affordable while retaining the same level of reliability as the current designs.

    "One of the things that is pretty clear within the industry is affordability is what we will all be living with and having to treat as the key criteria for any decisions that get made going forward," she said. "As a company, we've been working on our competitiveness and affordability for quite some time, leaning out the operation and reducing the footprint, and so on. ... We think there are some advances in technology that can improve the affordability and robustness in this product."

    Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne and Aerojet face a measure of business uncertainty because both are developing propulsion systems for NASA's Constellation program, which the White House is trying to cancel. Pratt & Whitney Rocketdyne, for example, has been developing the J2-X engines that would power the upper stages of the Ares 1 and Ares 5 rockets, and Aerojet has been developing multiple propulsion systems for the Orion crew capsule and escape system.

    Air Force spokeswoman LaGina Jackson was unable by press time to provide further schedule and funding details related to the next-generation engine efforts.

[frigate]

Federal Business Opportunities Web site:
Next Generation Engine (NGE) Request for Information
Solicitation Number: SMC10-55
Agency: Department of the Air Force
Office: Air Force Space Command
Location: SMC - Space and Missile Systems Center

Solicitation Number: SMC10-55
Notice Type: Sources Sought
Synopsis: Added: Sep 27, 2010 12:00 pm
This is a Request for Information (RFI) for market research purposes issued by the Launch and Range Systems Wing (LRSW) at the Space and Missile Systems Center (SMC). The United States Air Force (USAF) is seeking information from domestic manufacturers capable of developing and manufacturing a new upper stage engine for the EELV Program.

PURPOSE
The purpose of this RFI is to seek information from domestic manufacturers capable of developing and manufacturing a new upper stage engine.

THIS IS A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ONLY. This RFI is issued solely for information and planning purposes. It does not constitute a solicitation (Request for Proposal or Request for Quotations) or a promise to issue a solicitation in the future. As stipulated in FAR 15.201(e), responses to this notice are not considered offers, shall not be used as a proposal, and cannot be accepted by the Government to form a binding contract. This RFI does not commit the Government to contract for any supply or service whatsoever. Furthermore, we are not seeking proposals at this time. Responders are advised that the Government will not pay for any information or administrative costs incurred in response to this RFI. All costs associated with responding to this RFI will be solely at the responding party's expense.

The Government requests that non-proprietary information be submitted in response to this RFI. However, should proprietary information be submitted, it should be marked PROPRIETARY and will be handled accordingly. The Government shall not be liable for or suffer any consequential damages for any proprietary information not properly identified. Proprietary information will be safeguarded in accordance with the applicable Government regulations. Proprietary information or trade secrets should be clearly identified.

BACKGROUND:
The Atlas V and Delta IV upper stages currently employ two different variants of the RL10 rocket engine. While the RL10 engines meet current requirements, the Air Force anticipates needing a new engine produced and qualified NET 2017.

OVERVIEW OF OBJECTIVES:
The Air Force is seeking an upper stage engine utilizing modern design and manufacturing methods. It is expected that the new engine will demonstrate state-of-the-art operating margin and reliability and minimize life-cycle costs.

UPPER STAGE ENGINE TECHNICAL REQUIREMENTS
The engine will be a U.S. developed and manufactured LOX/LH2 rocket engine with a vacuum thrust in the range of 25k lbfs to 35k lbfs integratable with the upper stage of the EELV family of launch vehicles.

Additional top level technical requirements:
Isp (vacuum): 465 seconds or greater
Nozzle: Fixed (preferred, but not required)
Throttle: Throttlable down to 21,000 lbs (deeper throttle desired, but not required)
Restartable: Minimum of 4 flight starts
Life expectancy: 3000 seconds or greater
Reusable: Not required
Mixture Ratio: Adjustable during operation
Length (gimbal to nozzle exit): NTE 90 inches
Exit Diameter: NTE 73 inches (desired)
Threshold Reliability: 0.9990 or greater

UPPER STAGE ENGINE INFORMATION SOUGHT
The Air Force is asking for insight into the state of development of candidate solutions for upper stage engines, technology readiness levels (TRL), manufacturing readiness level (MRL), and critical technology risk reduction efforts.

Listed below are areas that the response shall cover.

Capabilities:

1. If a prototype engine or major subsystems exist and have been operated, provide the following: engine and installation photographs; non-proprietary description of engine characteristics that are critical to achieving the required thrust, specific impulse, and reliability; historical data on operation with LOX/LH2; information regarding where and how the engines have been tested or operated and in what configuration; and, name of technical POC to whom engine inquiries may be addressed.

2. Provide schedule to mature engine to TRL 6. TRL 6 is defined as: System/subsystem model or prototype demonstration in a relevant environment. TRL 6 represents a major step up in the technology's demonstrated readiness. Examples include testing a prototype in a high fidelity laboratory environment, or in a simulated operational environment.

3. Detail any proven manufacturing programs and capability related to liquid-propellant rocket engines.

4. Provide manufacturing process and material issues that contribute to engine's design, performance, durability, reliability, or cost.

5. Provide schedule to mature engine manufacturing processes to a Manufacturing Readiness Level (MRL) of 7. MRL 7 is defined as: capability to produce systems, subsystems or components in a production representative environment. MRLs provide a better understanding of the maturity and risks involved with respect to the products manufacturing readiness.

6. Provide an estimated annual production rate that supports the industrial base to include critical suppliers. Provide details for any components or supplier not in the United States.

PROGRAM AND BUSINESS MANAGEMENT
The USAF is seeking Industry inputs into methods to manage these programs to include effective and affordable business practices.

a) Discuss procurement approaches to include alternative business arrangements, such as teaming.

b) Describe how you would leverage any existing efforts to include hardware, designs, analysis, and facilities to save cost and accelerate schedule. Identify any existing assets from which you require or obtain benefit that support the technology maturation in a timely, affordable, and efficient manner. Identify any new assets that may be required, such as new testing facilities.

REFERENCES LIBRARY
Reference documents are available only upon request and will be provided only to individuals with the proper security clearances.
EELV Satellite Interface Specification

SUBMISSION OF RESPONSES: ALL RESPONSES SHALL BE SUBMITTED VIA EMAIL TO THE POC IDENTIFIED BELOW.

Interested sources possessing the capacity to meet all of the requirements and conditions outlined above must so indicate by responding via email to Point of Contact (POC) identified herein. All submissions should include the company name and POC to include, name, position, telephone number and email address. All interested sources are encouraged to respond to this Sources Sought synopsis by providing the above information on or before Close of Business 30 days following the publication of this RFI. All responses must be unclassified. If submitted, all proprietary and restricted information shall be clearly marked. The Government will NOT be responsible for any proprietary information not clearly marked.

Reference the section numbering convention when responding to the RFI. All documents must be electronically provided in Microsoft Word, Excel or other Microsoft Office compatible format. Response is limited to 25 pages, single spaced, Times New Roman, 12 pt font, with minimum one-inch margins. Appendices are allowed, but limited to drawings, schematics, photographs, and tables.

SUMMARY
SMC strives to develop a comprehensive acquisition approach to invest in the development a new upper stage engine. Industry involvement early in the development phase is essential for SMC to formulate a strategy to meet the national objectives of developing domestic propulsion systems that are both affordable and used by multiple customers. Any resulting acquisition approach will utilize these guiding principles:

a) Affordability
b) Satisfy multiple customers
c) Maximize competition
d) Procure appropriate intellectual property
e) Leverage existing programs
f) Apply the appropriate set of performance measures and incentives
g) Leverage existing industry programs
h) Maximize the use of small businesses

Responses must clearly demonstrate the qualifications, capability and expertise of the vendor. Responses to this notice will be used as part of the market research to develop the acquisition strategy that satisfies this potential requirement. Responses from small and disadvantaged business is highly encouraged. The applicable NAICS is 541712 with a 1,000 employee size standard. The Government has not formalized an acquisition strategy. There is no solicitation and there is no other information available at this time.

Contracting Office Address: 483 North Aviation Blvd El Segundo, California 90245-2808
Place of Performance: 483 N. Aviation Blvd El Segundo, California 90245 United States
Primary Point of Contact.: Kathleen Scholefield, Contracting Officer kathleen.scholefield@losangeles.af.mil Phone: 310-653-3696
Secondary Point of Contact: Doreen Grosvirt-Dramen, Contract Specialist doreen.grosvirt-dramen@losangeles.af.mil Phone: (310)653-3343

[frigate]

Жалко КБХА не дадут подать заявку - конкурс полу-закрытый ("Америка для американцев"),
даже документацию для тендера нельзя получить без соответствующих "proper security clearances".  :roll:
При наличии РД-0146/РД-0148 КБХА вполне бы вписался с запасом в требуемые HхD 2286 х 1854.2 мм:
у РД-0146 HхD 2200 х 1250 мм, удельный инмпульс 463 сек (при требуемых 465 сек),
правда тяга маловата - 98.1 кН при требуемом диапазоне тяги от 111 до 155 кН.  
Если Pratt & Whitney выиграет, может что-то перепадёт и Воронежу для продвижения РД-0148 на рынок.
Даже с учетом того что заказчик (ВВС США) отдаёт предпочтение своим производителям по
политико-экономическим причинам, он признавал еще в 2006 году что двигатели РД-0146  сопоставимы по ТТХ c RL-10:
A Review of United States Air Force and Department of Defense Aerospace Propulsion Needs.  
Committee on Air Force and Department of Defense Aerospace Propulsion Needs, National Research Council.
ISBN: 0-309-66243-5, 90 pages, 6 x 9, (2006)

[SpaceR]

требуемые HхD 2286 х 1854.2 мм:
требуемый удельный импульс 465 сек,
требуемый диапазон тяги от 111 до 155 кН.

Ну да, написано почти один к одному про RL-10-B-2.
За исключением сопла только. К чему называть его новым, неясно.
Попил по-американски?

[frigate]

ИМХО речь идет о финансировании нового RL-10-B-3 :idea:

[SpaceR]

ИМХО речь идет о финансировании нового RL-10-B-3 :idea:

Согласен.

[frigate]

ИМХО речь идет о финансировании нового RL-10-B-3 :idea:

Согласен.

Вообще-то я слегка погорячился: речь идет  также о двигателях RL-10A4-3 и NGE (New Generation Engine):oops:

Heavy Lift Launch Vehicle Study