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Тематические разделы => Космонавтика - ее история, назначение и перспективы => Тема начата: DonPMitchell от 17.09.2008 00:04:34

Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: DonPMitchell от 17.09.2008 00:04:34
Who was first with "Замкнутая схема" ЖРД?

I believe idea was from A.M. Isaev in 1940s.  Melnikov worked for Isaev, and he designed S1.5400 in OKB-1.

N.D. Kuznetsov worked on 8D517 about the same time as S1.5400.  Did Melnikov tell the idea to Kuznetsov?

I have heard there were experiments in 1958 in NII-1.  Who?
Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: Liss от 16.09.2008 14:46:54
Don,
Igor Afanasyev looked at your question and told that if we are thinking about conceptions, then the first-ever such engine was proposed by Eugen Saenger.
For experimental constructions, the first one in the USSR was developed by NII-88 and NII-1 (Mel'nikov and Sokolov). And the first actually flown was the S1.5400.
By that time, the U.S. has already tested RL10, of course.
Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: DonPMitchell от 17.09.2008 08:02:29
ЦитироватьDon,
Igor Afanasyev looked at your question and told that if we are thinking about conceptions, then the first-ever such engine was proposed by Eugen Saenger.
For experimental constructions, the first one in the USSR was developed by NII-88 and NII-1 (Mel'nikov and Sokolov). And the first actually flown was the S1.5400.
By that time, the U.S. has already tested RL10, of course.


The RL-10 is what we would call an "expander cycle", not quite as efficient as "staged combustion".  It uses combustion chamber heat to boil cryogenic propellant, and drives the turbo pump with the high pressure gas.  The SSME is ture staged combustion, and it has a much higher specific impulse.

You could argue that Tsander's OR-2 engine was expander cycle.

The Germans had the idea of taking pressure from the combustion chamber to drive the turbo pumps, but that is not efficient.  Could that be what Saenger proposed?

I'll let you know if I find something interesting.
Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: Гость 22 от 17.09.2008 13:32:15
ЦитироватьN.D. Kuznetsov worked on 8D517 about the same time as S1.5400.
Примерно в то же время немцы делали двигатель P111. На сайте Astrium он обозначен в качестве "First staged combustion cycle rocket engine using LOX/Kerosene propellants":
http://cs.astrium.eads.net/sp/Heritage/1960-1969.html

Они даже запатентовали такую схему, назвав её "Main Stream rocket engine":
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ZOJ0AAAAEBAJ
http://www.google.com/patents?id=9kk3AAAAEBAJ
http://www.google.com/patents?id=hO88AAAAEBAJ
Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: DonPMitchell от 18.09.2008 09:18:05
Цитировать
ЦитироватьN.D. Kuznetsov worked on 8D517 about the same time as S1.5400.
Примерно в то же время немцы делали двигатель P111. На сайте Astrium он обозначен в качестве "First staged combustion cycle rocket engine using LOX/Kerosene propellants":
http://cs.astrium.eads.net/sp/Heritage/1960-1969.html

Они даже запатентовали такую схему, назвав её "Main Stream rocket engine":
http://www.google.com/patents?id=ZOJ0AAAAEBAJ
http://www.google.com/patents?id=9kk3AAAAEBAJ
http://www.google.com/patents?id=hO88AAAAEBAJ

Years ago I added the comment about Ludwig Boelkow's 1963 engine on the wikipedia page about staged combustion.  Boelkow claims this is the first staged combustion engine, but that is obviously incorrect.  The S1.5400 was operational in the 8K74 in 1960.

Where is the article by Igor Afanasyev?
Название: Замкнутая схема ЖРД
Отправлено: DonPMitchell от 18.09.2008 09:43:17
Here is what George P. Sutton says in History of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines:

"The Soviets were the first to work on a LPRE with this [staged combustion] cycle beginning in about 1958.  This was done at Nauchno-Technichsekey Kompleks (NII) Reaction Propulsion Research Institute initially with heavy duty hardware.  The first Soviet engine with this dual combustion cycle was first flown in 1961.  It was the S1-5400 designed by M.V. Melnikov in Korolev's vehicle design bureau"

Sutton wrote a more recent article "History of Liquid-Propellant Rocket Engines in Russia, Formerly the Soviet Union", Journal of Propulsion and Power, 19(6) 2003.

In that article he says the S1-5400 flew in 1960, aware of the 1M launch attempts before the Venera launches.

http://www.aiaa.org/content.cfm?pageid=406&gTable=japaperimport&gID=6943