Китайский "Буран"

Автор Rifkat, 02.11.2017 11:48:17

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Rifkat

Если была похожа тема (с ходу не нашел) - эту закрою

https://lenta.ru/news/2017/11/02/sc/

00:03, 2 ноября 2017

Китай назвал сроки запуска аналога советского «Бурана»










Фото: Joe Mcnally / National Geographic / NASA / CNP / Globallookpress.com




Китай запланировал первый запуск многоразового космического корабля на 2020 год. Об этом сообщает агентство «Синьхуа».
Созданием аппарата занимается корпорация China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation. Скорее всего корабль будет напоминать американский Space Shuttle или советский «Буран».
Космический аппарат сможет перевозить людей и доставлять полезную нагрузку на орбиту, а затем возвращаться обратно. Корабль, по заявлению представителя корпорации, будет прост в обслуживании и обеспечит большое число запусков по низкой цене

.
Дрион покидает Землю

triage

02.11.2017 12:49:18 #1 Последнее редактирование: 02.11.2017 13:18:18 от pnetmon
Кто сказал что это Буран к которому дали многоразовый РН, а не аналог DCh или X-37B на многоразовом РН типа F9?

Из другой темы про китайский космос

Китайские СМИ на английском пишут разное

Тут аппарат
Цитата http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-10/31/c_136718107.htm
Source: Xinhua | 2017-10-31 20:55:43
BEIJING, Oct. 31 (Xinhua) -- China plans to launch its reusable spacecraft in 2020, according to a statement from China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation Tuesday.

Unlike traditional one-off spacecraft, the new spacecraft will fly into the sky like an aircraft, said Chen Hongbo, a researcher from the corporation.

The spacecraft can transport people or payload into the orbit and return to Earth.

Chen said that the spacecraft will be easier to maintain and can improve the frequency of launches at lower cost, bringing new opportunities for more people to travel into space.

Тут РН
Цитатаhttp://en.people.cn/n3/2017/1031/c90000-9287054.html
(People's Daily Online) 14:46, October 31, 2017
China plans to test its own reusable space launch vehicles in 2020, with an ultimate goal of decreasing the current space transportation cost by 90 percent, as well as reducing the time for launch preparations.

"The launch of our reusable space vehicles will take place in 2020, after which more tests and experiments will be carried out. The space vehicles are designed to be reused for over 20 times, reducing transportation costs by 90 percent," Chen Hongbo, director of the research center at the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation, told the Science and Technology Daily.

Chen also noted that the preparation time for the launch of a traditional rocket may take as long as several months, while the reusable space vehicles are expected to be launched within a day.

"Compared to other reusable space vehicles, for instance, America's Falcon 9, our vehicles can recover two stages of the rocket, while currently only the first stage of the Falcon 9 can be retrieved," Chen added.

According to Science and Technology Daily, China is set to complete all research projects and tests regarding reusable space launch technologies and is expected to be the first country in the world that can realize the full reusability of space launch vehicles.
Пишут о восстановлении двух частей РН, в то время как у Falcon 9 только одна первая ступень.

Поиск на Chen Hongbo China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation
Цитатаhttp://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-10/31/content_33938733.htm

chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2017-10-31

China Aerospace Science and Technology Corp (CASC), a major space contractor, is collaborating with research institutes to develop a reusable launch vehicle and plans to make its maiden flight in 2020, Science and Technology Daily reported.

The reusable launch vehicle can carry large payloads into orbit, return to the earth and be reused many times, said Chen Hongbo, director of the research and development center at the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology at CASC.

Chen said this homegrown, reusable launch vehicle features characteristics of both a spacecraft and a space shuttle, and his academy hopes to make the launch vehicle reusable through improving the rocket engine.

He said that the new vehicle will combine its first and second stage in parallel,different from the famous US-made, reusable Falcon 9 launch vehicle that is in a series way. The new vehicle's two stages will be recovered while Falcon 9 can only recover its first stage.

China's reusable launch vehicle is designed to be used over 20 times, Chen said. The cost to launch will be cut to one-fifth of the current price at the initial stage, and even cut to one-tenth in the future.

The pre-flight preparation time of traditional rockets varies from one week to several months, but the reusable launch vehicle will be able to realize daily flight, he said.

An obvious trait is that the new vehicles will have wings, which can help it land on the surface horizontally.

"The reusable launch vehicle will mainly provide service for a 300 to 500 kilometer-high orbit. It can meet the demands of fast, reliable and low-cost space transportation in the future," Chen said.

"For example, it can deliver astronauts and goods to a space station, provide a launch service for military and civilian purposes and even serve space tourism," he said.
Тут пишут о крыльях, вот что значило aircraft
Астронавты, грузы, военные и коммерческие и даже туристы

Цитатаhttp://www.technologynewschina.com/2017/10/china-to-launch-first-recycled-rocket.html
(China Plus) Chinese space authorities have announced plans to launch the country's first recyclable carrier rocket by 2020, according to the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT).

"The reusable craft is designed for over 20 repeat flights. It's expected to drive down our current costs by 80% and even 90% in the future," said Chen Hongbo, a director from CALT's research and development center.

Standard boosters, which are the most expensive part of a rocket, end up falling in the ocean after the separation procedure takes place.

This has prompted space agencies from around the world to work on how lower costs through reusable booster rockets.

US-based SpaceX has successfully launched and re-landed its Falcon 9 rocket over a dozen times.

However, only the first stage of the two-stage rocket is reclaimed with a vertical landing.

"CALT is working on retrieving not only the first stage but also the second stage through a design using plane-like 'wings' to create a horizontal landing," said Yang.

If successful, the plan could dramatically increase the number of space launches, with turnarounds potentially as short as 24 hours.

Source: China Plus by Hu Yijing
На китайском не смотрел.
У них только съезд партии прошел, может быть и лозунгами советских пятилеток, т.к. где хоть что-то из сделанного за 3 года до запуска в 2020 году.


Лента прочитала и дала ссылку на самое малое сообщение из всех четырех - вот и напридумывали журналисты....

triage

02.11.2017 12:55:01 #2 Последнее редактирование: 02.11.2017 12:58:41 от pnetmon
Лента как и Правда.ру(хотя правда.ру скопипастила) туда же.
Многоразовые вот только китайцы пишут о отличии от созданного Бурана (одноразовый РН), и о отличии от шаттла. Китайцы пишут многоразовые два элемента 1 ступень и вторая, и одна обладает крыльями для горизонтальной посадки.

Цитатаhttps://lenta.ru/news/2017/11/02/sc/

Советская система «Энергия-Буран», а также американские Space Shuttle были многоразовыми средствами выведения аппаратов на орбиту. В настоящее время обе программы закрыты.

Советская система состояла из космического корабля «Буран» и сверхтяжелой ракеты «Энергия». В 1980-х годах ракета стартовала два раза (оба -- успешно), один из которых -- вместе с «Бураном», успешно совершившим полет в автоматическом режиме.

ЦитатаКитай захватит космос на советских "Буранах"
Правда.Ру
В свое время советская "Энергия-Буран", а также американские Space Shuttle были многоразовыми средствами выведения аппаратов на орбиту.
...
Напомним, в 80-е годы "Буран" дважды успешно слетал в космос в автоматическом режиме

triage

Кажется. Если бы это был аналог Шаттла или Бурана, то тут
Цитата"For example, it can deliver astronauts and goods to a space station, provide a launch service for military and civilian purposes and even serve space tourism," he said.
было бы указано о выводе модулей для space station


Дмитрий Инфан


triage

02.11.2017 20:53:02 #6 Последнее редактирование: 04.11.2017 11:06:05 от pnetmon
ЦитатаДмитрий Инфан пишет:
Картинок нет.
Налетай на живопись
Гугл на запрос 陈洪波 2020 выдал
XS-1
BFR 
 http://news.stnn.cc/china/2017/1031/494656.shtml
 

 http://news.uschinapress.com/2017/1030/1126427.shtml



Китайский сайт www.chinaspaceflight.com эту новость закинул в тему суборбитального туристического корабля https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/default/CALT-Suborbital-Space-Tourism.html 
Там внизу вывод на орбиту
 
Но более интересную ссылку они в китайской социальной сети дали новостью трех недельной давности
 http://calt.spacechina.com/n689/c9746/content.html
9 октября 2017 - на китайском
Посредственный перевод на английский с картинкой
Цитата http://www.spacetechasia.com/china-to-design-a-reusable-winged-spacecraft/
10 октября

Yesterday, the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology (CALT) announced that it will be working with Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute, which designs military aircraft, to develop a new reusable spacecraft for manned missions. The institute has stated that the spacecraft's design will be based on winged aircraft.
CALT has stated that reusable launch vehicles are ideal for manned spaceflights, as they are able to make repeated trips from ground to orbit, and envisions using them to transport astronauts to and from China's planned space station. However, compared to conventional aircraft, the spacecraft design load needs to take into consideration multiple environments, making its development more complex and demanding.
The two organizations signed a strategic cooperation agreement to work together on a number of areas, including its design load, the development of digital pressure management systems, and other areas. Because of the winged aircraft design, which is drastically different from rocket design, CALT believes the partnership with Shenyang will aid in the development of the vehicle.
A key factor in solving this issue, said CALT, is the necessity for accurate data. Therefore, CALT and Shenyang are developing a software to calculate flight parameters, in addition to other technical exchanges.
Said Zhou Zhengyang, a member of the CALT R&D team, "Using this platform, flight parameters can be manipulated to calculate the design load needed, making the process faster and more accurate".
"After entering some data on this platform, it can combine the flight parameters to calculate the data needed for the load design, and the R & D personnel will be able to measure the load faster and more accurately," says Zhou.
30 октября в день когда сообщили всему миру тот же китайский официальный сайт выдал и такую новость. 
Но там нужно что-то выпить
гугло перевод с китайского на английский
Цитата http://calt.spacechina.com/n689/c9918/content.html
In 2030, the rocket can "deform" in the sky and fly more calmly
Release time: 2017-10-30 Source: China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology News




Rockets and spacecraft full of steel bars, giving a solid, can not shake the impression. But, you know, in more than a decade later, with wings, can take the initiative to "deformation" of the rocket, spacecraft or will come out, the new form will allow rockets, spacecraft flying in complex tasks more calm.
....
As the birds in the wind, wind, high altitude and other different environments, at different speeds when flying, will adjust the wings of the area and the overall attitude, so as to soar, the future of intelligent and variable spacecraft will also be based on different flight environment and Tasks, timely change the shape of the layout, and always maintain the full stage of the best performance, maximize the flight performance.
"Now the launch vehicle, manned spacecraft is usually a one-time, but can be reused has become a trend.Future spacecraft in the atmosphere of the work is not limited to launch and return to the two processes, their mission will be more More, more complex, so that the advantages of smart deformable will be revealed. "
So, manufacturing smart deformable spacecraft, humans also need to overcome what difficulties?
....
Rocket Center R & D Center, said: "It is expected that around 2030, foreign companies or actual validation of deformable technology in spacecraft now, rocket institute also carried out preliminary research in this area for our future spacecraft The development of reserve technology.I believe in the near future, human spacecraft as birds, like any Shu Shu, free to fly in the sky between.
на первую картинку находится статья 2015 года http://news.xinhuanet.com/science/2015-03/13/c_134063953.htm

АниКей

ЦитатаЗачем китайцы приврали про свой космический прорыв
Правда.Ру
В 2020 году Китай собирается впервые запустить свой многоразовый космический корабль, созданием которого занимается корпорация China ...

А кто не чтит цитат -- тот ренегат и гад!

triage

03.11.2017 08:08:52 #8 Последнее редактирование: 03.11.2017 08:19:50 от pnetmon
ЦитатаАниКей пишет:
ЦитатаЗачем китайцы приврали про свой космический прорыв
Правда.Ру
В 2020 году Китай собирается впервые запустить свой многоразовый космический корабль, созданием которого занимается корпорация China ...
Цитатаhttps://www.pravda.ru/science/eureka/inventions/02-11-2017/1352296-buran-0/
....
Оценить шансы Китая на реализацию его амбициозных планов "Правда.Ру" попросила научного руководителя Института космической политики Ивана Моисеева. По его словам, "построить до 2020 года за три года такую систему просто невозможно". К тому же нынешнее сообщение о разработке - первое, до сих пор о ней никто ничего не слышал.

"Если бы работы велись всерьез, а не на бумаге, то было бы уже хорошо известно об этих планах. Тем более что в последние годы Китай не очень сильно скрывает свои намерения. Поэтому речь идет, скорее всего, о чисто теоретической разработке", - предположил наш собеседник.

По его мнению, раз в сообщении не указано, на какой конкретно стадии сейчас находится работа. "Это всегда так делается. Просто: "Работаем в этом направлении". А СМИ воспринимают это так, будто вот-вот полетит", - сыронизировал Моисеев.

В то, что Китай возьмет советский "Буран" за основу своего космического челнока, ученый не верит. "Во-первых, у них уже ракетостроение на достаточно высоком уровне, чтобы сделать такие вещи самостоятельно. А во-вторых, большинство наших технологий по энергии "Бурана", включая двигатели, уже закончились: они устарели и утеряны. Нет смысла в них копаться, ничего мы там продать не сможем", - пояснил эксперт свою точку зрения.
Россия, по его словам, над созданием нового многоразового космического корабля не работает: этого пункта попросту нет в ее космической программе. Но заявления по этому поводу все равно делаются - на основе чисто теоретических разработок. "Сидит какой-нибудь инженер-конструктор, и рисует на салфетке, и можно уже сказать, что работа идет", - обрисовал ситуацию Моисеев.

Дело в том, что сейчас в многоразовых космических челноках объективно нет необходимости. "Было два мощных аппарата "Буран" и Space Shuttle. "Буран" слетал один раз, и остался без полезных нагрузок, им просто нечего было делать. Шаттл летал много, много чего сделал. Но потом пришли к выводу, что это не очень здорово, дороговато", - подытожил эксперт.

Беседовала Лада КОРОТУН

Читайте больше на https://www.pravda.ru/science/eureka/inventions/02-11-2017/1352296-buran-0/

triage

03.11.2017 08:18:26 #9 Последнее редактирование: 03.11.2017 08:22:41 от pnetmon
С чего все началось
 http://digitalpaper.stdaily.com/http_www.kjrb.com/kjrb/html/2017-10/31/content_380740.htm?div=-1

Гугл переводчик переводит хреново (XS-1 в пилотируемый, а стоить разбить на абзацы переводит как экспериментальный)
Там про 2020, 15 лет и окончании разработки к 2030 году.
Цитата陈洪波表示,我国正在研制的重复使用运载器兼具航天器和航空飞行器的特点。与传统一次性火箭相比,我国正基于目前的火箭发动机,通过技术改进让其实现重复使用。2020年左右完成首飞后,还将连续进行数次飞行,验证其快速再次发射和重复使用能力。美国国防高级研究计划局主导的XS-1
试验性太空飞机,采用垂直发射、水平着陆模式
)也计划在2020年完成飞行试验,可以说,中美两国的可重复使用运载器研发是"比肩的

Chen Hongbo said that China is developing a reusable carrier both spacecraft and aerocraft characteristics. Compared with the traditional one-time rocket, China is based on the current rocket engine, through technological improvements to achieve its re-use. After the first flight is completed around 2020, several flights will be conducted in succession to verify its rapid re-launch and re-use capabilities. US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency-led XS-1 (Experimental space aircraft, using vertical launch, horizontal landing mode) Also plans to complete the flight test in 2020. It can be said that the development of reusable vehicles in China and the United States is "shoulder to shoulder"
....
Цитата不过,可重复使用航天器的终极目标,仍是能像飞机一样水平起降、可单级入轨的"空天飞机"。其为了提高在大气层内的飞行效率,需要用涡轮发动机、冲压发动机与火箭形成组合动力。科技日报记者了解到,目前国内已经开展相关研究。但陈洪波表示,该技术难度极大,预计还需要15年左右才能有所突破,具备工程应用能力。而火箭动力形式目前已经比较成熟的"

However, the ultimate goal of reusable spacecraft is still a "space shuttle" capable of taking off and landing at the same level as a plane and capable of entering a single stage. In order to improve the flight efficiency in the atmosphere, it is necessary to form a combined power with a turbo engine, a ramjet and a rocket. Technology Daily reporter learned that the current domestic research has been carried out. However, Chen Hongbo said that the technology is extremely difficult and it is estimated that it will take about 15 years to achieve a breakthrough with the engineering application capability. While the rocket power form is now more mature "
....
Цитата十九大报告中指出:"要瞄准世界科技前沿,强化基础研究,实现前瞻性基础研究、引领性原创成果重大突破。"记者了解到,可重复使用运载器技术代表着世界科技前沿,可带动先进材料、先进制造、控制、气动等学科的基础理论研究和技术创新。同时其应用前景极为广阔。据介绍,我国预计在2030年前全部完成可重复使用运载器的研发及相关飞行试验,届时有望成为全世界首个实现完全重复使用运载器研制的国家。

Nineteenth report pointed out: "to aim at the forefront of the world science and technology, strengthen basic research, to achieve forward-looking basic research, leading a major breakthrough in the original results." Reporters learned that the reusable carrier technology represents the forefront of the world's technology, Advanced materials, advanced manufacturing, control, pneumatic and other disciplines of basic theoretical research and technological innovation. While its application prospects are extremely broad. According to reports, China is expected to be completed by 2030 before the reusable carrier of the R & D and related flight test, will be expected to become the world's first fully re-use carrier development of the country.
там и skylon упоминают

triage

упоминание на  http://novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/forum/messages/forum13/topic10087/message1747201/#message1747201
https://youtu.be/Cqgh2s4ZU7M
https://youtu.be/Cqgh2s4ZU7M 



Цитата http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1092397.shtml

China develops reusable space plane, tough to be intercepted

Source:Global Times Published: 2018/3/8 

China is developing its homegrown reusable space plane, which observers said could be used to attack foreign aircraft, space stations and even intercept missiles if used for military purposes. 

The reusable spacecraft can transport people or payloads in orbit from any airport and return to earth, CCTV reported. 

Unlike rockets which have to be recycled, the space plane will revolutionize space transportation, Zhang Hongwen, president of the Third Academy of China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) and a member of the 13th National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC), told CCTV. 

Although still at an early stage of research, the space plane will be capable of sending tourists to space, launching satellites and supplying the space station, providing emergency space rescue and offering cheap and timely space launching services, Zhang said. 

 Скрытый текст:
"It could also be used as a military space plane equipped with detection and attack devices against foreign spacecraft, satellites and space stations," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times. 

Song said that the plane could also intercept ballistic missiles and conduct precision strikes on ground targets. 

The CCTV report showed that the space plane is composed of two planes, with the larger aircraft acting as a carrier aircraft. 

A military expert who requested anonymity told the Global Times that the core technology of the larger aircraft is an air-breathing rocket engine using hydrogen fuel. 

Such an engine could liquefy oxygen, and then fuel the aircraft with liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen while flying in the atmosphere. The liquid fuel could accelerate the flight in space, with speeds potentially reaching 22 times the speed of sound, the expert said.

The larger aircraft, once used as a military aircraft, will be difficult to be intercepted by current anti-missile systems, he added. 

The project, codenamed "Tengyun Project," was first revealed in 2016, and according to the plan, the plane will conduct its first test flight in 2030, said Liu Shiquan, vice president of CASIC, the Science and Technology Daily reported in December 2016. 

 Скрытый текст:
In the CCTV report, Zhang also said that China is currently testing a near-space solar drone capable of providing a network and communications not subjected to regional restrictions, and assist in remote sensing images and meteorological observation.

"The solar drone is closer to the ground compared with satellites, which could better offer monitoring and communications services," Zhang was quoted as saying. 

The solar drone will be put into use as early as the end of this year, CCTV reported.

Антикосмит

Это уже китайская Спираль!
Сойдет

Ну-и-ну

Китай развивается по спирали. Сначала поспирали Союз с Салютом, а потом и прочее.

triage

13.03.2018 15:37:00 #13 Последнее редактирование: 20.03.2018 09:25:26 от pnetmon
ЦитатаНу-и-ну пишет:
Китай развивается по спирали. Сначала поспирали Союз с Салютом, а потом и прочее.
Ну зачем поспирали.... была организованная между государствами обмен технологиями и прочим.

На всякий, а то смысл значения разный
2017 год
Цитата https://gbtimes.com/china-sets-out-long-term-space-transportation-roadmap-including-a-nuclear-space-shuttle
China sets out long-term space transportation roadmap including a nuclear space shuttle
by Andrew Jones Nov 16, 2017
...
2025 is the marker for the successful development of a reusable space plane, initially using two stages for suborbital flight, including for tourism purposes. The debut flight for the space plane has earlier been stated as being set for 2020. Eventually the spacecraft would use combined cycle propulsion for orbital flight.
...
Another target explicitly mentioned for 2040 is a nuclear-powered space shuttle, though no details are revealed.
...
Цитатаhttp://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1075834.shtml
China sees 'breakthrough' in nuclear-powered space shuttles by 2040
By Tian He Source:Global Times Published: 2017/11/17
...
"Nuclear-powered space shuttles are mainly used for long-distance space travel and deep space exploration. They are the cornerstone for the Mars space stations," Jiao Weixin, a Peking University space science professor, told the Global Times.

"Given China's progress in miniature nuclear reactors, such as the maritime nuclear stations, it is possible to use similar technology in space shuttles," Jiao noted.

He said the nuclear-powered space shuttles will stay in orbit and will not land on Earth or other planets, reducing the risk of possible radioactive contamination.

A future generation of carrier rockets will be put into use around 2040 and hybrid power reusable carriers will be developed, the report said.
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sasha20072007

03.04.2018 06:38:13 #14 Последнее редактирование: 03.04.2018 06:39:10 от sasha20072007
Народ, кто в курсе, насколько это правда, что и второй советский Буран - Байкал также стартовал, в 1992-м. Правда не совсем удачно?
http://www.buran.ru/htm/baikal.htm


Rifkat

вроде 1 апреля прошло :)
Дрион покидает Землю

Nilk

Цитатаsasha20072007 пишет:
Народ, кто в курсе, насколько это правда, что и второй советский Буран - Байкал также стартовал, в 1992-м. Правда не совсем удачно?
Это первоапрельская шутка, второй корабль назывался "Буря" и он никуда не летал. Даже название намекает: Байкал  ;)